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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 8 Nov 2000

Vol. 164 No. 8

Fisheries (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 2000: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Mr. Ryan

It is worth putting on the record the startling fact that salmon stocks in the Atlantic are 15% of what they were 25 years ago. I accept there may be more reasons than overfishing. I have often said in this House that we are doing things to the planet the consequences of which we do not understand. I have spent a lot of time warning the House about the favourite myth, namely, that there is no scientific evidence that something does something. That means we cannot prove a negative, therefore, we assume it does not happen. The fact that we have not proved that various environmental effects or risks have damaged fish stocks does not mean it has not happened, it means we cannot prove cause and effect.

I accept that various environmental factors, including acid rain, may have done some damage but it is difficult to escape the conclusion that the single greatest reason salmon stocks have dropped is overfishing and incorrect fishing. At what stage, in terms of depletion of stocks, will we reach a critical mass below which it is unlikely that salmon stocks will be able to reproduce and return to a strong position? I have heard it said about other fish stocks, such as herring and cod, that if the figures decrease further they would not be able to reproduce, even if negative factors were eliminated, because of the number of injured offspring. The figure cannot be much less than 15%. How close are we to that critical mass below which it is unlikely that fish stocks will be replenished, even if we do everything right?

One of the remarkable things about inland fisheries is the degree to which there is a sense of ownership by all the partners. It is time we moved away from the idea of private ownership of inland fisheries, if that still exists. It is a dated concept which bears no relationship to reality. The people who own it have no responsibility for it other than protecting their own economic interest, selling it off or hiring it out to someone else to use irresponsibly. There is a case for social ownership or control of this resource. If compensation must be paid, let it be done so we can move on. There is no possibility of a proper policy as long as we have relics of the old aristocracy claiming ownership of a fisheries resource to which they have contributed nothing and which happens to be an accident of history or worse.

I welcome the Bill, although I am concerned about the on-the-spot fines. As we have learned in driving, while the £50 fine concentrates the mind slightly, one of the great things about it from the point of view of the individual is that as long as he or she keeps paying them, there is no question of a district justice or judge asking the prosecuting garda about any previous convictions. There is no cumulative effect.

One gets brownie points on the computer.

Mr. Ryan

I know points will be accumulated on a person's driving licence. There is a case for a similar cumulative effect for on-the-spot fines in this area. Otherwise, people will chance their arm and pay the £50 because it is simpler and does not involve a record. Although they will lose out, it will not deter anyone who believes their economic interests are still better served by chancing their arm and paying the £50 when they get caught. It will concentrate our minds if we believe we will lose our licence if we break the law by driving too fast. There is a case for a similar cumulative effect in this area.

I am intrigued that I must produce a licence on demand if I go fishing for salmon. It would be regarded as an outrage to demand a driver's licence, although there is provision in the law to do it. I do not understand why drivers should not be required to produce their licences on demand. If salmon fishermen can do it, everyone else can as well.

I am interested in the practice of enforcement and how the Minister believes this will happen. It cannot be easy to enforce such regulations. While the individuals who enforce the regulations have the force of law behind them, they do not have the authority of a member of the Garda Síochána. I know there are well documented cases of physical intimidation. How many people will be available to enforce the regulations and what is the ratio between them and the numbers of people expected to be involved in salmon fishing? It is important to sort out how many anglers will be involved.

Senator Quinn said something which is not a reproach to the Minister but to ourselves. In this, as in a number of other areas, we have let things catch up on us. What has been said about the deteriorating quality of our water and our fisheries resources is true. Apart from their economic value, which is important, there is a degree to which this is an issue about conserving part of the diversity of our ecological heritage. That a country whose scéalaíocht rotates around the extraordinary imagined or real powers of the salmon would allow its wild salmon, which goes so far back into our mythology and is associated with the bradán feasa, to be wiped out would be a retrograde step for all of us.

Some 15% is a big reduction. We should develop the angling and wild salmon industries as far as we can. However, in terms of our diversity and heritage, it is to a degree a betrayal of our heritage to allow something so precious and, as Senator Quinn said, a considerable economic asset to die. I hope we will proceed in this area.

I am glad the legislation was introduced in this House. I hope the Minister mentions in his reply the possibility of a cumulative way of identifying repeat offenders. I know there will be paperwork but unless there is a penalty associated with multiple offences, many people will keep chancing their arm.

I welcome the introduction of the Bill, which I support. The concept of tagging salmon and trout is not new as it was done in the past by the Department under the Salmon Research Institute. That institute is now part of the Marine Institute and it provides clear information on the need for conservation and restocking and expertise on measuring the stocks in the sea and those caught. However, until such time as we have a good research and auditing system, we will not be able to make plans to deal with the conservation of a species as important as our wild salmon and sea trout.

This is a good Bill. It is innovative in its attempt to deal with a situation that has many aspects and involves many different sectors and traditions. It proposes a tactical approach to dealing with the responsibilities of the Department. The Bill will not entail substantial costs to the Exchequer, which is welcome. It will improve the efficient running and effectiveness of the fishing manage ment sections within the fisheries boards, including the election of people to the boards and the extension of time to existing board members. That is a worthwhile and important aspect.

Some of the finest Irish fisheries have been destroyed by over-indulgence, lack of management and the winner-takes-all approach. It has resulted in the destruction of something that has been in existence for generations, especially along the western seaboard. Those that have been managed well have survived but those that were plundered have never recovered. It is a strong indictment of us and our responsibilities towards the seas.

The Minister referred to the National Salmon Commission and the recommendations for dealing with the overall management of salmon. Proper catchment management plans must be applied to estuaries, which are currently managed by a combination of different sectors. Through the salmon research agencies the Marine Institute has the opportunity to engage in management along the western seaboard. The balanced overall development, which has been a feature in Lough Foyle and in some places in Scotland, needs to be extended to all the different fisheries. Unless a proper catchment management plan is enforced we will not be in a position to provide the necessary protection for the long-term sustainability of fishing.

Catchment management strategies have been talked about and some have been introduced. They provide the only hope for a proper long-term planned approach to fishing. It is difficult to know how to proceed. Fishermen will say that stocks in the seas are so low that it is unviable to fish. On the other hand, large boats with substantial quotas have been profitable and effective, which is right and proper.

There is a serious need to look at the whole management aspect and the opportunity for young people involved in inshore fisheries. A quota similar to what is provided in agriculture should be made available. Surplus quotas which are for sale should be bought by the Department in a planned way to give young men who have a genuine interest, live in the areas and are prepared to put up their own money the opportunity to fish legally. It should not be done on the basis of big numbers, but as part of a managed approach. Bord Iascaigh Mhara has to an extent failed to provide such an opportunity for some young men who are or would like to be full-time fishermen in a sustainable way, not using large boats that would clean out areas.

I compliment the Minister and the Minister of State on the substantial allocation of moneys to the small ports and harbours throughout the country. It is very worthwhile and contributes to sustainable development in terms of coastal and catchment management and in giving young fishermen the opportunity to use reasonable landing facilities. Part of the funding has been allocated under the national development plan, which is to be welcomed.

The time has come for the State to be responsible for fisheries because private ownership has not worked. There is not sufficient ongoing investment, nor is there enough participation. At the same time the State must provide substantial resources for policing and managing rivers and lakes in private ownership. These are very valuable assets. At one time very little value was placed on the private ownership of fisheries. Some of the finest trout and salmon fishing in my constituency is owned by people who never had any financial stake in or commitment to the area. It is time the people were responsible for determining the future of these fisheries and for managing them in a proper and sustainable way.

While this is not covered by the terms of the Bill, will the Minister indicate the progress made on the shellfish industry, which is experiencing difficulties at present? There is uncertainty in the industry, which is another aspect of the management of the fisheries and which needs to be examined.

I welcome the Bill and the commitment by the Minister and the Minister of State to the fishing industry. It is important that the legislation is enacted and that we become involved in catchment management and in ascertaining where the future lies for fishing industry stocks to ensure that fishermen are sustained for the future.

Minister of State at the Department of the Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. Byrne): I thank the Senators for their valuable contributions to this debate. In letting us know of their experiences, they have illustrated the valuable role the Seanad plays in the Oireachtas and in the formation of legislation. The support for the two main elements of the Bill, the wild salmon tagging scheme and the system of on-the-spot fines, is most welcome.

Senator Quinn said I may be setting my sights too low in raising the status of wild Atlantic salmon as a premium food item. It is my firm intention to enable the wild salmon industry to achieve its maximum potential on the markets at home and abroad. A comparison was made with traceability in the beef market. There is already an example of traceability in the market for farmed Irish salmon, which is operated by the salmon farming industry. All farmed salmon are traceable at the level of the packing box. The box is labelled showing the farm origin and the cage numbers.

Farmed Irish salmon is a high quality product produced to a high standard. It benefits from the clean environmental image of Ireland. It is with great pride that I note the status and esteem in which it is held, especially in France where we have niche markets. It is my intention to ensure that the wild salmon sector moves towards a similar level of marketing organisation.

The national salmon stocks remain vulnerable and I am maintaining all the conservation measures currently in place, including measures on the length of the fishing season, the weekly close times, night-time fishing and the use of baits. I am encouraging the voluntary practice of catch and release by anglers, particularly in the case of spring salmon which is especially vulnerable to over exploitation in individual catchments. I also welcome the fact that owners of private fisheries, which include the fisheries boards, operate bag limits to prevent over-exploitation.

The Fisheries (Amendment) Act, 1999, provides that the regional boards shall encourage and organise, together with the inland fisheries interests, the voluntary development of catchment management plans. The Act provides that the boards shall have regard to the distinctive circumstances which pertain in each of the catchment systems. The particular role of angling clubs and associations in the sustainable management of fisheries is also recognised in the Act and regional boards are obliged to have regard to this role in the performance of their functions under the Act.

I have provided for this year and next year substantial extra funding for catchment management projects in the regions. This year alone, £2 million of additional capital expenditure is being channelled through the regional boards. Many of these projects are being undertaken with the direct involvement of local clubs and organisations. The tagging schemes, which will commence on 1 January 2001, are in addition to the fish tagging programmes carried out by the Marine Institute. The Marine Institute has been operating a tagging programme for live fish with a view to obtaining data, principally on the life cycle of the fish. The new carcase tagging scheme has, as its primary objective, the provision of information on the annual catches of salmon by all sectors. As I stated, the scheme has been the subject of intensive consultation with the National Salmon Commission. The commercial fishing sector is fully behind the scheme, which will commence on 1 January 2001. All tags are made of plastic and are designed to fit easily through the gill opening and the mouth of the fish and to be snapped shut. The tags are designed for easy and simple use. The representatives of the commercial sector in the commission have examined the practical implications of tagging the fish and are satisfied that the scheme is workable.

Currently there are two schemes of voluntary set-aside for salmon which are being co-funded by my Department. One of the schemes, which is on the Munster Blackwater, includes a group of draft net and salmon trout. One of the principal advantages of this scheme is that it reduces the level of netting in the areas of the River Blackwater in which salmon are particularly vulnerable to netting. The regional boards have been asked to encourage the development of similar schemes at catchment level, which are based on local contributions and value for money considerations and are part of other catchment-based devel opments such as work on spawning beds and so on.

The option of buy-outs presents significantly greater complexities than set-aside. One must always keep in mind that the objective is to ensure that more salmon enter our rivers to spawn and thus ensure sustainable development of the species. It is not necessarily the case that a buy-out of any individual commercial fisherman will result in an overall reduction in exploitation of the sector.

I thank the Senators for their welcome for the on-the-spot fine provisions in the Bill. We will have an opportunity to examine the matter in more detail on Committee Stage. I would like to clarify, however, that the provisions of the Bill will allow for a comprehensive scheme of on-the-spot fines for fishery offences in the area of inland fisheries. Some of the offences to be covered are specifically provided for in the Schedule to the Bill. However, additional offences will have to be provided for by means of regulations. The regional fisheries boards are fully supportive of this innovation and the money generated can be used by the boards to fund their general expenditure. The new system will be operated by the boards as part of their normal duties in relation to the protection of fisheries. This is an efficiency measure which will allow the boards to enforce fisheries legislation in a more efficient way. From the point of view of the alleged offender, it remains the case that such a person has the option of proving his innocence in court. Payment of an on-the-spot fine is an option he can choose to take to avoid the possibility of a prosecution.

The Bill provides for penalties in respect of a contravention of tagging regulations generally. The maximum fines on summary conviction range from £500 for a first offence up to £1,000 for a third offence in a period of 12 months. For more serious offences such as tagging an unlawfully caught fish, forging a tag or a log book or providing false information, the Bill provides for a maximum fine of £1,500 or up to three months imprisonment. Senator Ryan spoke about the cumulative effect, but if a person is caught and fined often enough, the bank manager will remind him of the cumulative effect. It is an interesting suggestion, however, and one that we will certainly consider. Living where I do, I am particularly concerned about the current level of stock. The purpose of the tagging programme is to inform policy decision-makers with hard data on the catches of salmon by all sectors. Tagging and the upgraded national fish counter programme will provide real information of the kind the Senator requested.

The fisheries officers have the option of issuing an on-the-spot fine. If the officer is dealing with a persistent offender, he or she may choose not to issue an on-the-spot fine and institute a prosecution in the normal way. The on-the-spot fine system will be operated by the board as part of its normal fisheries protection duties. The boards fully support the introduction of on-the-spot fines.

I thank Senator Chambers for his contribution during which he asked me a specific question on the current shellfish difficulties. While the Bill does not deal with that matter, I would like to take the opportunity to inform the Senator that I am concerned about the difficulty in the shellfish industry, particularly the biotoxin programme which has not been functioning to my satisfaction. Indeed, since mid-August I have held 18 high powered meetings to resolve the matter and I am happy the Marine Institute has been instructed to increase its number of officers for both testing and collecting of data. I have instructed my officials to carry out in open bays twice weekly testing as opposed to once weekly testing and to ensure that bays that are closed are consistently tested to determine if they can be open because as the Senator knows well, the current year has been particularly difficult and sales of mussels are not as good as they might have been.

The customer is the most important element of this chain. I am concerned that the Food Safety Authority and I should sing from the same hymn sheet. Working together, the Marine Institute, the Department, BIM and the Food Safety Authority should be able to put in place by the end of the year a programme which will stand the test of time and will probably be regarded as an example to be followed by our European counterparts.

I recently spent some time in New Zealand hoping to identify an early warning system which would be beneficial to shellfish farmers. We have a model in mind which I hope to put in place by 1 January 2001. Such a system will save farmers money as they will know not to harvest in a particular week but to wait until a bay is open. I hope this answers the Senator's question. Ba mhaith liom arís mo bhuíochas a ghabháil libh go léir.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

Next Wednesday at 2.30 p.m.

Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 15 November 2000.
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