The proposed Order of Business is No. 1, Wildlife (Amendment) Bill, 1999 – Committee and Remaining Stages.
Order of Business.
On the Order of Business, will the Deputy Leader take Committee Stage only of the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill, 1999, as there are a number of amendments tabled on that Stage? We on this side of the House are of the view that the Minister is probably sufficiently open-minded to accept some of those amendments. We would prefer not to prevent that possiblity by calling for Committee and Remaining Stages of the Bill to be taken today. The Deputy Leader will have full co-operation from this side of the House if he accedes to my request, as I hope he will, to take only Committee Stage of that Bill today.
Last week we had a short, top of the head, instant debate on the question of taxis, for which the Leader must be thanked. It was held quickly at the request of Members on this side of the House. While we were grateful for it, it was a very quick debate. It is time to consider the taxi situation further. We have seen intimidation on a scale not witnessed here for a very long time. We have witnessed intimidation of those who fix taximeters in cars. It has been reported, and this has not been denied, that they have been told that if they fix the taximeters in any new applicant's car, they will be physically assaulted. We have also witnessed intimidation of TDs, some of whom have had their houses picketed by taxi people and have had threats made against them. We have witnessed the intimidation of the public by the blockading and threats of taxi people to snarl up the traffic system.
That intimidation has no place in a democracy. The way is open for taxi people to put their case in a reasonable and structured way. If I were the Minister, and the taxi people came to see me in an intimidating and threatening way, I would quickly show them the door. No Government can tolerate that sort of behaviour. It is time the views of Members of this House were heard on this issue. We do not want to see a victory against taxi men; we want a proper taxi service. We want the rights of taxi men preserved as far as is possible, but we want it done in an orderly way. It is time we had a full debate on that issue and I ask the Deputy Leader to arrange it.
This House should condemn unequivocally the action of the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dea, who has undermined the Government and the Minister of State, a member of the Deputy Leader's party, by describing him as impertinent when he believed he was not being recorded. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Dea, has two options. He could resign, and if he were honourable he would do so, as he is at variance with stated Government policy. If he does not resign, any Taoiseach with gumption would sack him. We cannot have undermining of public policy by a Minister of State who wishes to continue in office.
I would like to hear the views of the Deputy Leader, in particular on the undermining of his ministerial colleague, Deputy Molloy, by the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dea.
I have been more than tolerate of Senator Manning.
The Cathaoirleach is a teacher at heart and, therefore, a tolerant person.
I wish to raise a number of issues with the Deputy Leader. Will he indicate if there was a response to a request for a debate on the conditions of service and promotional prospects of Members of the Oireachtas and the importance of the implementation of the Buckley report? If not, will he raise that matter again? The Buckley report, effectively the benchmarking of salaries and allowances of Members of the Oireachtas, has been completed and submitted to Minister for Finance. I ask that the report be brought to Government and implemented. Members of both Houses should make the case for doing that as quickly as possible. It would be appropriate for Members to receive copies of the report to enable us to have a debate on it in this House. We did not debate the outcome of the Buckley report or the earlier Gleeson reports. It is appropriate to debate them, to enable us to offer publicly our views on the way this job should be organised. I ask that this be done fairly quickly.
I will not go into the issues raised by Senator Manning, other than to say that I agree with him. I repeat my congratulations to the Minister of State, Deputy Molloy, and the Government on taking a strong stand.
Regarding Deputy O'Dea, that is no more than the usual Fianna Fáil loosening up of muscles so they can rush out to the plinth on the day of the budget to undermine their Minister. I hope there is more discipline this year than last year.
That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
I am sure it is not but I could not resist it. The budget next week is very important and Fianna Fáil Members should at least support their Minister if he does the right thing, despite whatever phone calls he gets.
It might interest those who ran out to the plinth last year on behalf of people who missed out to know that the current review of the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness has brought forward a proposal, accepted by the Government, to extend paid maternity leave from 14 to 18 weeks. This is a significant improvement on the current situation and arises from the programme. It requires a minor change to the existing maternity legislation. Will the Leader find out when the Government intends to do this and put pressure on it to do quickly? It is important that that be done quickly for those who have confidence in the PPF. It should also be brought to the Seanad in the first place.
The point made by Senator Manning abut the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill is also important to the Independent Members. I ask the Deputy Leader to halt progress after Committee Stage. We will co-operate fully with the remaining Stages when they are taken but we need that time between Committee and remaining Stages. We seek the Deputy Leader's indulgence in this matter.
Senator Cregan has put a lot of effort into the committee report on the Shannon River Council and we should have a debate on this matter so that we can move matters further along the legislative route. The Leader would wish us to do so.
I add my voice to the requests to take Committee Stage only of the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill today as there are quite a lot of amendments. There was a good debate on Second Stage but there are many issues to be teased out with the Minister, who is reasonably receptive to suggestions for change. It would be proper to take Committee Stage only today.
I wish to move the following amendment to the Order of Business, "That No. 12 be taken." I ask the House's permission to print the Central Bank (Amendment) Bill, 2000. This Bill is very short and is directed at the proper and orderly regulation of the banking system. The intention is to ensure the banks maintain a sufficient number of branches and other offices to meet the reasonable requirements of their customers. As we know, there has been a huge spate of branch closures which seem to be happening willy-nilly, with no criteria being applied. The Bill seeks to empower the Central Bank to extend its existing powers to look at this whole area and to ensure that permission would have to be granted by the Central Bank before branches or offices could be closed.
I also raise the issue of the Pakistani businessmen who were detained at the airport and imprisoned in Mountjoy. We should invite the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the Seanad to discuss the immigration issue and related matters. It is dreadful that bona fide businessmen with valid passports and visas had those documents, their flight tickets and their money confiscated and were also imprisoned for a period.
Other related issues need to be raised also, such as the proposed detention centre in Butlins at Mosney. This is causing a huge furore, not just in the Irish Refugee Council, but because of the closure of a holiday camp for children from the north inner city. This is the area where most of the children go in the summer and it is not a suitable facility for a detention centre for asylum seekers. Also, it would totally undermine the Community Games if it were to close down.
We need a further debate on the taxi issue, which does not appear to be going away despite the meeting with the Minister of State, Deputy Molloy, taking place today. Arising from that meeting with the Minister of State we should have a debate before the end of the week because there are serious issues, raised by Senator Manning, in particular, and others and in the media, that need to be addressed. It is important that the Oireachtas is seen to state clearly where the Houses stand on this issue.
Will the Deputy Leader arrange an early debate on the possible health hazards relating to mobile 'phones? I would like the Minister for Health and Children to be present in the House for the debate because in recent days there have been many serious revelations regarding the dangers of these 'phones, even to the point where it is now believed that they will have to carry a health warning. The most worrying aspect is that recent findings show that these 'phones are more dangerous for children than adults and, as we know, many children now have mobile 'phones. This Christmas it appears that they will top the wish list of presents among young people. We should remind ourselves that while tests in the past have not proved that there are dangers, it has never been proved that they are harmless. I would like that debate to take place before Christmas because of the danger of children getting mobile phones as presents.
Will the Deputy Leader tell us if a date has been fixed for the debate on education, particularly in reference to the Cromien report on the Department of Education and Science? We are concerned about the teachers' strike and I know many parents are worried about those children who will undergo examinations next year. It is particularly pertinent at this time that we would have a debate on education.
Is the Deputy Leader aware of a new campaign launched by the Department of Health and Children which is called "Think Twice Every Time – It's Up to You Both"? The timing of this campaign launch is interesting because we have heard there is a mini-epidemic of sexually transmitted diseases in this city. It is remarkable, however, that such a campaign was launched at a time when the partners who would normally be associated with it were not contacted about the best way to go about it. It would be interesting for us to debate that issue and I would ask that education as well as health be on the agenda.
Will the Deputy Leader appeal to the Minister for Finance to give special consideration in this year's budget to people with a disability? Statistics show that people with a disability are more likely to experience poverty in their lives and in 1997, an ESRI report indicated that 72% of families headed by a disabled person were living below the poverty line. Perhaps a special range of measures would be considered by the Minister for Finance so that people with disability can live with dignity and independence.
I second the amendment to the Order of Business in the name of Senator Costello. That is a very important matter. Banks are treating their customers with contempt. They are also treating them on an age and class basis. They are extinguishing local branches of banks in a way which is disadvantageous to people who do not understand information technology and this is of a piece with the closure of rural post offices.
I also support Senator Keogh in what I believe is a timely call for a debate on the question of sexually transmitted diseases. There is a very worrying rise in these diseases. For example, today's newspapers refer to the incidence of syphilis. We are also through the first wave of AIDS but young people do not take this issue seriously. This House played an important role in the early days by intelligently and seriously discussing AIDS and we should do so again.
The case of the Pakistani businessmen was a lamentable advertisement for this country. Seven people came to this country and were treated in an atrocious manner and imprisoned. These people had valid passports, airline tickets and visas. Reports stated that officials at the airport believed these men intended to travel to the UK and this was precisely the point made when this Act was going through the House. I do not entirely blame the people at the airport as they were required to imagine what other people intended to do which is impossible. This case is an outrage.
Coincidentally, this morning I received a letter concerning a distinguished Egyptian doctor and novelist who applied for a study visa. This man had all the necessary documents but was refused permission to attend a three week summer school in Trinity College. We hear talk of fortress Europe but this is turning into fortress Ireland and we need to debate the issue.
I endorse Senator Kett's appeal to the Minister for Finance on behalf of the disabled who have an exceptional case. Disabled people have special needs and expenses over and above ordinary people, particularly disabled people who find themselves in the poverty trap. However, I wish to refer specifically to disabled drivers. I ask the Deputy Leader to convey to the relevant Ministers my concern and annoyance at the selfish, inconsiderate, insensitive and unfair behaviour of motorists who park in spaces designated for disabled drivers. I receive many complaints about this abominable behaviour and we should introduce whatever enforceable regulations are required as a matter of urgency.
I join Senators Manning and O'Toole in calling for a break after Committee Stage of the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill. The House has tabled quite a number of amendments to this legislation. The Minister for Arts, Heri tage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, Deputy de Valera, has shown her intention to make this a good Bill and it would be a mistake to rush it through the House in one day. I would welcome the deferral of Report Stage until next week.
Last year for many weeks the House sought a debate on Partnership for Peace. The debate eventually took place on the last day of the session in July. The European rapid reaction force has come to fruition and it is an ideal time and the ideal forum to debate the matter. We should use this opportunity to invite the Minister for Defence, Deputy Michael Smith, to the House to debate this issue.
Senator Costello referred to the decision of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to acquire Mosney holiday camp. Most Members will be aware that I have a long association with the National Community Games and I ask the Deputy Leader to invite the Minister to the House as a matter of urgency to make a statement of intent on this issue. This decision will cause severe disruption to the National Community Games movement but will also create enormous disappointment for hundreds of thousands of children who aspire to their own mini-Olympics each year.
Many Senators, in their capacity as Members of this House or as chairpersons and members of statutory local bodies, attend the national games each year to give support. They also give financial support in their capacity as Members of this House and will share the general concern at this decision. We need clarification on this issue.
I do not wish to place on the record of the House any implied criticism of Phelim McCluskey and his wife who have done great work in providing these facilities for many years. I know the McCluskey family well and this is obviously a business decision. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, as a State body, has an obligation to clarify what exactly it intends to do and the impact this decision will have on the future of the games. No other venue has the same facilities or can accommodate the estimated 10,000 to 15,000 people who use this venue at weekends.
This is a matter of deep concern to parents and, in particular, children and I thank the Chair for allowing me to raise it. The Department must clarify the position as matter of urgency.
I support Senator Manning's call for a debate on the taxi drivers dispute. I condemn the intimidation and death threats sent to the Minister who is upholding the law. This is scandalous. I hope the people responsible are caught and that taxi drivers will comply with the law and help the detectives who are trying to trace those who issued the death threats.
I am very annoyed at the way taxi drivers have treated disabled people. I come into this category, but at least I am mobile. Yesterday I listened to reports on how people in wheelchairs have been treated by taxi drivers. It is scandalous that disabled people, who are on low incomes, have been charged £30 instead of the usual fare of £14. I hope taxi drivers get their act together and co-operate with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform which is trying to trace the people who issued the death threats to the Minister.
Last week calls were made by Members for a debate on BSE and its effects on cattle and food. This debate should be broadened to include the beef industry. I ask the Deputy Leader of the House to convey to the Minister the importance of an early debate on these issues.
I join with Senator Keogh in calling for a debate on education and, in particular, the difficulties caused by the ASTI dispute. This dispute is unfortunate for all concerned, particularly examination students who seem to have been overshadowed in the media by the antics of the taxi drivers. By the end of this week students will have lost six days at school, with the prospect of further lost days in the weeks to come. We had a debate on the taxi drivers dispute last week and it is unfortunate that we have not yet had a debate on education and, in particular, the ASTI dispute. I call on the Minister to make time available to come into the House to debate this very important issue.
Senators Manning, O'Toole and Costello referred to item No. 1 on the Order Paper. I am anxious to dispose of this legislation as quickly as possible as a number of other Bills will come before the House for debate before the Christmas recess. I cannot defer the Bill but one way of dealing with it is to have a recess of three quarters of an hour between Committee and Report Stages. I will propose that. The Minister may be able to give an indication at that stage as to the progress being made on the Bill.
Senators Manning, O'Toole, Costello and Farrell referred to public transport and the taxi drivers' dispute. I fully agree with Senator Manning that intimidation has no role in our democracy. No one can condone such threats. Even though we are used to confronting protest groups outside the gate, we were intimidated while crossing the street last week. It was also wrong that a person who was reporting on the incidents should have been threatened in the way that he was and told to put his microphone in a certain place. That was wholly unwarranted.
Hear, hear.
It has undermined the case which the taxi drivers might have had. Senator Manning pointed out that the Minister of State, Deputy Molloy, would show them the door if they behaved in that manner and I am confident he will do so if they do not conform to the normal standards of civilised behaviour when tense negotiations take place between Ministers and various lobby groups.
Senator O'Toole answered the part of the question dealing with the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dea.
To the Senator's satisfaction?
It is important that Government members should support a decision that has been taken.
Hear, hear.
I would not say otherwise.
Senator O'Toole raised the Buckley report and Oireachtas facilities and salaries. It would useful to debate that matter at an early date and I will see what can be done. The review of the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness was raised and the question of extending maternity leave from 14 to 18 weeks. I will make inquiries as to when the legislative change will occur to facilitate that.
The Shannon river council committee report was raised. The issue has been considered regularly by the House and I will establish what can be done to have that matter disposed of as quickly as possible.
Senator Costello raised No. 12, the Central Bank (Amendment) Bill, 2000, in the name of the Labour Senators. I am anxious to facilitate the Senator. However, I cannot give him an answer this afternoon and if he were to wait until tomorrow morning I could communicate with him on the Order of Business regarding the attitude to the Bill. In general I am anxious that Bills of this nature should be published.
It is highly regrettable that the Pakistani business people were detained in Mountjoy Prison. Irrespective of whether people enter the country legally or illegally their human rights must be respected and they must be dealt with sensitively and properly. In this case more checks could have been carried out and contact made to ensure they were not incarcerated in Mountjoy jail. There are issues raised and aspects which could be improved on. It is essential that people are treated with the dignity they deserve. It is indicative of a certain frame of mind with regard to ethnic minorities that they are not dealt with in the same way as anybody else from inside or outside the country who is white.
Well said.
Senator Ó Murchú referred to the health hazards of mobile telephones and it is an issue that we can debate. As a parent I recognise that it is useful if young people who go out at night have mobile 'phones. I believe the facility to contact adults at short notice has prevented unsavoury incidents. There is also a positive aspect to their use.
Senators Keogh and Glennon called for a debate on education and the Cromien report. The Leader indicated last week that we should be able to discuss this at an early date and I will convey the Senators' views to him.
I will try to get the Minister for Health and Children to come to the House to discuss the "think twice" campaign and the sex education issue.
Senators Kett and Liam Fitzgerald raised the issue of disability. I share their hope that the Minister for Finance will continue last year's progress in next week's budget in ensuring disabled people are given the rights to which they are entitled, are able to live with dignity and can go about their business properly and easily.
The use of disabled parking spaces by able-bodied people was raised and it is so wrong as to beggar belief. I recently came across a case where a person in a wheelchair had reason to have words with an able-bodied person who parked in a disabled person's parking space outside a supermarket and he was virtually assaulted for having the effrontery to raise the issue with the person. Something must be done quickly to ensure the rights of people with disabilities are vindicated. We cannot always legislate for boorishness and loutishness. Nonetheless, where such spaces exists, they should be available for the people who require them, and something must be done to ensure that happens.
I have dealt with the Pakistani matter raised by Senator Norris. Senator Quinn raised the matter of defence, Partnership for Peace and the Rapid Reaction Force. He is right in saying matters have progressed substantially from the time we entered Partnership for Peace. I welcome the Rapid Reaction Force and I would welcome an opportunity to discuss the issue more widely within the House.
The issue of Mosney was raised by Senators Mooney and Costello. It would be regrettable if the Community Games did not have a venue of that nature for the annual games. They perform a valuable task and have produced some of the champions who now distinguish themselves internationally. I will bring these matters to the attention of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
Regarding some of the issues raised concerning the Minister's responsibilities, be they the Mosney or Pakistani issues, he will be in the House twice tomorrow. The Protection of Children (Hague Convention) Bill is being taken and prisons are being discussed in Private Members' time. Opportunities exist and I am sure the Chair will allow a certain degree of flexibility—
It always does.
—as it always does to raise these matters. If they cannot be raised that way, perhaps the Adjournment is the way to raise them.
I have dealt with Senator Farrell's comments on taxis. Senator Callanan raised the issue of BSE. I am pleased to note it is now intended that all animals more than 30 months old will be tested for BSE, even if they do not show symptoms. It is important from the point of view of the international reputation of our cattle and beef trade that that be done. The Senator is correct that we should debate the wider issue of the future of the beef industry, not just BSE. We will see what can be done to facilitate that.
Senator Glennon raised the issue of teachers and I have dealt with that. I agree it is unfortunate that exam students should have their future careers possibly jeopardised. I hope the matter can be resolved at an early date.
Senator Costello has moved an amendment to the Order of Business, that No. 12 be inserted before No. 1. Is the amendment being pressed?
Yes.
Much as my seconder would like to press it, I will decline given what the Deputy Leader said. Will he confirm that he will be Deputy Leader tomorrow?
He is a consummate actor.
It all depends on the good offices of Aer Lingus or whoever transports the Leader back to the country. I assure him that one or other of us will deal with the matter.
There is a difference.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn,
Order of Business agreed to.