The Order of Business for today is No. 1, motion re the Fourth Protocol to the Treaty of Amsterdam with regard to the extension of the Dublin Convention arrangements to Norway and Iceland to be taken without debate; No. 2, the Customs and Excise (Mutual Assistance) Bill, 2000 – Second Stage, with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed seven minutes; No. 3, Broadcasting Bill, 1999 – Committee Stage (resumed). Business will be interrupted from 1.30 p.m. to 2.15 p.m.
Order of Business.
The business as outlined is agreeable. I want to make an appeal to the wider public to co-operate with the authorities to ensure that foot and mouth disease is curtailed. The consequences of the disease entering Ireland are too awful to contemplate but the responsibility for its curtailment rests not just with the authorities. The safeguarding of the country depends on the widest co-operation of many people, truckers, farmers, travellers, etc. The word should go out from this House that all par ties are fully behind the authorities in trying to prevent this disease reaching Ireland.
I support the call from Senator Manning. It would be useful to show a sense of concern, not that Members can add much in terms of technological knowledge. It would be helpful if a Minister would reassure the House and use that opportunity to outline what steps are being taken to curtail the disease. There is a danger that people will not give full information. Problems have occurred because some farmers were reluctant to discuss problems and I would appreciate a Minister taking 20 minutes to come to the House today to outline the current policy. As Senator Manning rightly pointed out, it is not a party political matter but something everybody has a deep interest in. Ironically, we had a long debate last night on the food industry and it is not that we need to discuss that issue further, rather we would like to hear a Minister's views as well as showing commitment on this matter.
The question of housing is another that the Leader should come back to. Housing has gone off the agenda as there have been many other things in the news in recent times. The difficulties and costs for young people buying houses, and the problems created by families having to double and treble up in houses, have a high cost for society. I ask the Minister with responsibility for housing, Deputy Molloy, to come to the House to explain how the Bacon initiatives are working, what impact they are having and how the issue is to be dealt with in the future. The take-up of local authority supported initiatives is another issue to be discussed as is the increase in some mortgage time-spans to 30 years.
The housing problem is not just a single issue. There are many aspects to the problem, and Members are hearing about these from constituents. The importance of dealing with this issue on behalf of young people is hugely important at a time when they are disengaged from politics and we should show our concern and put forward our proposals on this issue.
I add my voice to the call for maximum co-operation on the curtailment of foot and mouth disease. There is a possibility that the disease will hop across the channel to Ireland. We seem to be going from crisis to crisis in the agricultural sector but there is nothing that would be more damaging to the farming community and the national community than an outbreak of foot and mouth disease. Maximum co-operation by the farming community, the road haulage community and the public is needed. It would be valuable if the Minister came to the House to outline what measures are being taken.
The teachers' dispute is another issue which has not gone away. Today's newspapers claim that the commissioner for data protection has ruled in favour of the teachers, stating that the money deducted during the work-to-rule was deducted illegally—
I understand there are negotiations under way on this matter and it is not appropriate that we should have a debate on it on the Order of Business.
I had no intention of discussing the negotiations. This matter has been resolved. The data commissioner has made his report and it is now a public matter. Because of the deductions, negotiations have been delayed for over two months and I appeal to the Minister for Education and Science not to appeal the commissioner's decision. If he does appeal, negotiations could be delayed further and the threat to examinations would increase.
I join the appeal to farmers and the wider public to do all in their power to ensure that foot and mouth disease does not come to this country. It is primarily a matter of individual responsibility. The Minister and the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development are also aware of their responsibilities and I am pleased that they have acted quickly to trace a lorry to Virginia which had visited a facility in England where the outbreak occurred.
Thankfully, it is more than 60 years since we had the disease in Ireland but it is very contagious. If people are visiting England they should avoid going to farms, meat factories or other agricultural facilities. In the event that they do visit such facilities, they should report to Irish port authorities when they return so that they can be traced in the event of an unfortunate occurrence.
While BSE is very serious and has had a devastating effect, this would be nothing by comparison to an outbreak of foot and mouth disease, not just for agriculture but for the whole country. I join with Senator Manning in that matter.
The teachers' dispute is at arbitration and we should not say anything to prejudice that.
I share the Senators' concerns about doing everything possible to avoid the foot and mouth disease that could devastate farming which has had so many body blows recently.
Regardless of arbitration, we did expect the education problem and the threat to examinations would have been resolved when we came back at the beginning of the year.
We have no control over this matter in this House and it certainly is not appropriate to the Order of Business. Any debate here might only exacerbate the situation.
We are not looking for a debate. We are encouraging the Minister to do everything in his power to go the right way about resolving this issue, particularly in the light of the debacle over the withdrawal of payments before Christmas. We raised that issue and the Minister simply deducted the money.
I endorse what Senators Manning, Dardis and others have said about everything possible being done by all concerned to ensure that the deadly disease, foot and mouth, should not spread to this country or any further in England. I remember in 1968, I think, when we had the last foot and mouth scare here and sporting fixtures had to be abandoned. This disappointed me because I was involved with greyhounds at the time and greyhound fixtures could not take place. It would be very disappointing for some of us here if a very important sporting fixture were abandoned across the sea. However, if sporting or any other fixtures have to be abandoned so be it. I appeal to everyone concerned to ensure all precautions are taken.
We had a very useful debate last night on Senator Feargal Quinn's motion about the public health aspects of BSE. I ask the Leader for a debate with the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to discuss the environmental aspects of this problem. The Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development and his Department are being asked to deal with the whole problem whereas there is far more competence in other Departments on this issue. It would be worth hearing the views of the Minister for the Environment and Local Government on the serious difficulties with the disposal of carcases and specified risk material.
I support the call for total co-operation, not alone from the farming community and the haulage industry but the public also. It is essential to protect the agriculture industry and we should take all steps to do that. The Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation may have a responsibility here. The travelling public have a vital role to play. Leaflets should be prepared and given to those who are travelling that would give guidance. We must stop the disease entering this country.
Any further references to the foot and mouth outbreak can only be repetitious. I know that the call that has gone out from here this morning has the support of all Members of the House.
I agree with you. We all support the steps taken by the Government so I will say no more on it.
I rejoice in your innocence if you think the debate on the ASTI could be further exacerbated. A few days ago two senior officials were knocking lumps out of each other and the police had to be called. I do not know how it could be exacerbated any further.
I raise a question about Borneo. I ask the Leader, with all the urgency at my command, to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to contact immediately the Indonesian ambassador regarding the situation in Borneo. There is news today following an outbreak of violence there that the Indonesian authorities intend to saturate the area under their control with troops. Yesterday at the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs we heard evidence from Mr. Iten, a distinguished Swiss journalist, about events that occurred under Indonesian control in West Papua at the beginning of December. Horrendous human rights abuses, torture and murder on a wide scale are being carried out by the Indonesian military. They have learnt nothing from the situation in East Timor. If we do not utter a protest, there will be a further massacre in the interests of the American, Canadian and Australian mining companies that are exploiting the natural resources of these regions. We really must protest in the strongest possible terms.
I appreciate your comments on foot and mouth disease. However, I am talking about a different type of foot and mouth disease. I ask the Leader to ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he intends to have any training for the Judiciary in view of the most intemperate and inappropriate language used recently in a case, which got widespread media coverage. In some realms of society, things have not moved on at all.
There is a convention that we do not criticise the Judiciary in this House.
I am not naming anybody in particular. I appreciate your point, but it does not mean that they do not deserve the criticism.
To allow both sides to have space to enter the negotiations fully, the less said about the teachers dispute, the better and so we should not speak about it.
The Department of Education and Science should urgently take note of the lack of psychological services that still exist in many parts of Ireland.
We had a debate last night on BSE and I understand the point the Chair is making about continuing on the subject of foot and mouth disease.
During the debate yesterday on the Electoral Bill, I was reminded of the strategic management initiative started about four years and about which we have heard very little since. When discussing electronic voting yesterday, I was impressed at how far we are slipping behind the ambitions we had of making sure that we would become the electronic hub of Europe. There is a huge difference between the different Departments in their ability to become Internet com pliant. Those of us who use the Internet have found that some Departments are way ahead of others. Some are really with it and some are way behind. Who is handling the strategic management initiative?
Deputy Dick Roche.
Could he come here to debate how that is progressing? It was developed in, I think, 1996 with a big fanfare. It may be going on behind the scenes with great success but we do not know about it. It would be a useful debate to have here.
I endorse Senator O'Toole's proposal for a debate on housing, particularly bearing in mind the recent statement by the Irish House Builders Association that they will not meet their targets for completed buildings this year. It is worthy of debate. It is part of the PPF and it is important that we look at it in the context of our housing strategy and in light of consideration of the review of the 9% levy taking the investor out of the whole business. It is important and worthy of a debate.
I add my support to the Department of Agriculture and all affected groups in the foot and mouth scare. It is interesting to note the total withdrawal of meat and all food products from food halls on Grafton Street this morning. It is important to note the amount of imported food products and the part we all have to play to protect our natural resource.
I want to respond to the case made by Senator Quinn in regard to the SMI. I raised this two weeks ago during the debate on the Agriculture Appeals Bill and referred, in particular, to the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. A debate with the relevant Minister would be in order and I ask the Leader of the House to consider this proposal. The SMI committee which, I think, is still chaired by Deputy Roche – I was vice-chair some years ago – did excellent work. Up to 18 months ago I was up to speed with its work but I am not sure what it is doing now.
It has got better.
Deputy Roche is up to speed on the work and I am sure the relevant Minister, whom I think is Deputy Cullen, may be able to oblige the Leader in his request for a debate. One of the best aspects of the House is our greater degree of flexibility than the Lower House in terms of responding to national crises and issues of importance.
I wish to trespass on your patience, a Chathaoirligh, and refer to the pleas made this morning on the foot and mouth issue. I commend the Minister for his speedy response. On top of the BSE crisis, the importance of this issue cannot be underestimated. As I was entering the Chamber a Senator on the Government side referred to the economic impact of a further catastrophe not only for farmers and the meat trade but for all international fixtures between the two islands. Given that Cheltenham is only down the road, so to speak, this issue has huge economic implications for another industry which is extremely important to us. Would it be possible to allocate time today – we could suspend business – so that the Minister can up-date the House on the position on this issue?
That request has already been made.
I support the request.
The House should welcome the statement yesterday by the Congress of the Secondary Schools Parents' Council which has taken an initiative and offered to supervise the oral and leaving certificate examinations.
We cannot go into that matter now.
I am not going into it; I am making the point that the House should welcome that initiative. Students are under much stress and it should be relieved. It would be appropriate if—
I would prefer if the Senator would abide by my ruling.
I will abide by your ruling, but the House should call on both sides, without getting involved in the dispute, to reintensify the efforts to resolve the dispute.
Is there a split between the front and back benches on the Government side?
Reference was made to electronic voting. I will not speak on this other than to remind the House of what happened in Florida. I want to ask the Leader an important question in view of the impending general election this year or next year—
Now or never.
It will be soon and I hope the Minister for the Environment and Local Government will do for us humble Members of the Oireachtas the service he did for our esteemed colleagues in the European Parliament and put our pictures on the ballot paper.
These points are relevant to the electoral Bill.
I appreciate your ruling, a Chathaoirligh, that it is not appropriate to criticise the Judiciary in the House. This has always been a part of the procedure in both Houses of the Oireachtas. However, given that Ministers appoint members of the Judiciary under legislation passed by the House we should be able to criticise members of the Judiciary when they abuse their position. Judge Connellan deserves to be censured by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform for his comments in a case in Newbridge a few days ago.
The Senator is deliberately subverting my ruling.
I join with Senator Keogh in requesting the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to take action in relation to this individual whose comments were contrary—
I again remind the Senator of the separation of powers.
His comments were contrary to the legislation on incitement to hatred and other related legislation passed by the House.
That is not a matter for the House.
I ask the Leader to raise the matter with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
The second issue relates to the IBTS which has decided to cover itself under privilege and not release documentation to the Lindsay tribunal. Its behaviour is absolutely despicable and deserves to be condemned by the House. I ask the Leader to request the Minister for Health and Children to direct the IBTS to submit the necessary documentation to the Lindsay tribunal as he is doing for the Department.
Senators
Hear, hear.
On item No. 2, I proposed ten minutes for the main speakers but intended to propose 15 minutes. I seek the permission of the House to allocate 15 minutes for the main spokespersons and seven minutes for all other Senators.
Senators Manning, O'Toole, Costello, Dardis, Jackman, Rory Kiely, Callanan, Chambers and Doyle expressed serious concern about the alarm bells which have been sounded by the incidence of foot and mouth disease in the UK and the involvement of a truck from Virginia, County Cavan. I wish to be associated with the congratulations offered to the Minister and Government for moving speedily and effectively on this serious issue. I intend to have the Minister present in the House next week to give us an up-date on the position. As requested by the Senators, I hope that people who have been on farms or been in contact with an agricultural processing plant will act responsibly in the national interest and in the interests of all concerned in the industry.
Senators O'Toole and Chambers called for a debate on the up-to-date situation on housing and the progress and effectiveness of Bacon One, Two and Three. I will allocate time for this debate. I will pass the comments made by Senators Costello, Dardis, Jackman, Ormonde and Walsh on the teachers' dispute to the Minister for Education and Children. Following the good debate in the House last night on BSE, Senator Henry called for a further debate with the Minister for the Environment and Local Government present. I will pass Senator Norris's views on human rights abuses in Indonesia to the Minister for Foreign Affairs. I will pass the views expressed by Senators Keogh and Taylor-Quinn to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I will pass Senator Ormonde's views to the Minister for Education and Children.
Senators Quinn and Doyle referred to the SMI. I understand that the Committee on Finance and Public Service has this issue on its agenda for this session. I will pass their views to the chairman of the committee. Senator Ridge referred to the Bill debated yesterday. The use of photographs is provided for in the Bill. The Minister stressed that the photograph would have to be an up-to-date one. I will pass Senator Taylor-Quinn's views on the provisions of documents to the Lindsay tribunal to the Minister for Health and Children.
Order of Business agreed to.