Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 8 Mar 2001

Vol. 165 No. 13

Human Rights Issues in Iraq: Statements.

Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation (Mr. E. Ryan)

The difficult humanitarian situation faced by the people of Iraq is of major concern to the Government. Members of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs during their recent visit to Iraq saw at first hand the dreadful consequences of the current situation. Media reports have also shown the extent of the suffering among the Iraqi people. As a member of the UN Security Council, our approach to this issue is informed both by the need to address the human suffering and to ensure that Iraq complies with the decisions of the Security Council and co-operates with the UN oil for food programme in allowing adequate and equitable distribution of humanitarian supplies to its population.

The failure of the Iraqi Government to co-operate with the UN commission appointed to verify the dismantling of Iraq's programme to acquire weapons of mass destruction is the basis for the continued imposition of the sanctions. Security Council Resolution 1254 provides for the suspension of sanctions in return for Iraqi co-operation with the new disarmament supervisory commission. The Government wishes to see the necessary co-operation from Baghdad to allow concrete progress to be made on the suspension of the sanctions and their lifting as soon as possible.

The oil for food programme was established between the UN and the Government of Iraq in 1996 to provide for the humanitarian needs of the Iraqi people in the context of the UN economic sanctions regime. On 14 February this year, the UN Secretary General approved a new $5.5 billion plan submitted by Iraq for distributing UN-administered humanitarian aid in the country over the next six months.

The UN Secretary General this week provided to the Security Council a report containing a detailed and objective analysis of the operation of the oil for food programme over the last six month period and what it means for the period ahead. The Secretary General concludes that, as long as sanctions are in place, there is no alternative to the oil for food programme in providing for the humanitarian needs of the Iraqi people and restates the commitment of the United Nations to ensuring delivery of that assistance. He points out that, under the existing Security Council resolutions, the Government of Iraq has the necessary authorisation to export unlimited amounts of oil in exchange for the importation of a wide range of humanitarian goods. According to the Secretary General, the funds are available for the Government of Iraq to meet the humanitarian needs of the Iraqi population.

The Secretary General, however, notes with serious concern the two month delay by Iraq in submitting its distribution plan for the assistance to be provided during the next six month period. He is also seriously concerned that, despite its known capacity, Iraq has reduced its oil exports below previous levels to the point where the $5.5 billion required for humanitarian assistance may not be achieved. The Secretary General also reports that, despite previous agreements, there are increasing and inordinate delays in the issuing of visas by Iraq to UN humanitarian personnel and that these are having an adverse affect on the implementation of the programme.

The Secretary General is frank in highlighting the range of constraints and difficulties experienced in the effective implementation of the programme and the reasons the necessary assistance is not reaching the Iraqi civilian population. The following are a number of examples taken from the report of direct relevance to our discussions: on the specific issue of the nutritional needs of children, the Secretary General expresses a strong concern that the financial allocation and infrastructure requested by Iraq will not solve the existing problems of malnutrition. In his view, the necessary funds are available for the Government of Iraq to address urgently the nutritional requirements of the children of Iraq. In spite of this, the Secretary General reports that during the past six month period the Government of Iraq has made no application for a targeted nutrition programme for malnourished children, pregnant women or breast-feeding mothers.

On health care and the provision of vital medicines and vaccines, the Secretary General reports that new administrative procedures introduced by Baghdad are contributing to serious delays in the submission of applications for contracts. He states that in the past six months, out of a total allocation of $625 million, only $135 million worth of applications have been submitted by Iraq. The resulting shortage of medicines and vaccines exposes the Iraqi population to normally preventable infections and places the lives of 4.7 million Iraqi children under the age of five years at risk.

The Secretary General also refers to the unacceptably high level of holds placed on applications for assistance by a number of states in the sanctions committee. These now constitute 16.5% of all applications. He regrets the continued lack of progress within the sanctions committee on improving the approval process, in reviewing applications in an expeditious manner and in decreasing the number of applications on hold. The Secretary General recommends the wider application of existing fast-track mechanisms for the approval of applications and the expansion of the so called "green list" of automatically approved goods. It should also be noted that Iraq's own performance in failing to place orders on time is responsible for $1.5 billion worth of goods being placed on hold.

The Secretary General concludes that it is essential for all the parties concerned, now more than ever, to depoliticise and facilitate the implementation of the programme. The Government shares that view. The Minister for Foreign Affairs discussed the issue of Iraq, the continuing UN economic sanctions and their humanitarian cost at high level meetings with Russian Foreign Minister Ivanov in Moscow on 21 February; with French Foreign Minister Vedrine in Paris on 23 February; with the new US Secretary of State, Colin Powell, in Washington on 28 February; and yesterday with German Foreign Minister Fischler in Berlin. The Minister's objective was to ascertain how thinking is developing in these capitals with a view to identifying the most effective role Ireland can play in promoting a forward-looking and constructive approach.

In his discussions, the Minister outlined the concerns of the Government at the suffering being endured by the Iraqi civilian population and the difficulties arising in the provision of humanitarian assistance as a result of sanctions. He explained the approach which Ireland has adopted in the Security Council to the effect that recent developments in Iraq need to be considered in their broad context taking account of humanitarian issues and the need for Iraq to comply with Security Council resolutions, especially those relating to the elimination of weapons of mass destruction. He particularly focused on the need to encourage new thinking on how to move beyond the current impasse in the Security Council, where the permanent five members are in dispute on the way forward, and to reach agreement on a comprehensive solution as soon as possible.

The Minister believes from the outcome of those meetings that there is an emerging view, including in the new US Administration, in favour of examining possible new approaches to the implementation of sanctions. This is very much in line with the view Ireland has advocated, namely, that the Security Council must take greater account of the humanitarian dimension and that greater flexibility is required in the implementation of sanctions.

The Government supports the ongoing efforts of the UN Secretary General to restart a process of dialogue between Iraq and the United Nations. We welcome the meeting which took place two weeks ago between the Secretary General and the Iraqi Foreign Minister. These contacts will resume. The Government hopes these discussions will provide an opportunity to identify the areas in which progress can be made, in particular in overcoming the problems caused by hold-ups and delays in implementing the oil for food programme and in the deployment of the UN disarmament mission.

Ireland will continue to contribute actively to discussions on this issue in the Security Council and sanctions committee. The Government will work to ensure sufficient progress can be made to permit additional measures to substantially reduce the humanitarian cost of the sanctions. We look forward to the lifting of sanctions altogether. To help bring this about, it will be necessary for Iraq to demonstrate its peaceful intentions with concrete evidence, especially with regard to its neighbours.

Ireland will continue to provide substantial assistance for the people of Iraq. In addition to our regular contributions to the UN funds and programmes operating in the country, Ireland provided a total of £596,000 in bilateral humani tarian assistance during 1999 and 2000. Most recently, the Government provided £100,000 from Ireland Aid to the International Committee of the Red Cross for the reconstruction and rehabilitation of health, water and sanitation facilities.

Since 1997, the European Community Humanitarian Office, ECHO, has disbursed over £21 million in assistance to Iraq, focusing on the most vulnerable and on basic needs, in particular those of malnourished children. ECHO is due to embark on a major fact finding and needs assessment mission to Iraq in April. With our UN and EU partners, and in conjunction with the Iraqi authorities, the Government will continue to strongly support these and other practical measures to ensure the urgent delivery of humanitarian assistance to children and other vulnerable sectors of the population.

It remains the Government's wish to see the lifting of the UN economic sanctions against Iraq altogether. To bring this about, it will be necessary for Iraq to co-operate with the new UN disarmament supervisory commission. The Government also wishes to see full co-operation between Iraq and the UN humanitarian assistance programmes. We remain concerned that the widespread suffering of the Iraqi people has been exacerbated by the apparent withholding of food and medical supplies from the general population by the Iraqi regime and the diversion of resources to government and military purposes. The Government looks forward to the day when Iraq will be able to resume its place in the international community.

Mr. Norris

I welcome this debate which is being held in response to a motion tabled in my name and that of Senator Ross. I was shattered by the Minister of State's speech, in particular its reference to the strong influence exerted by the United States. I had hoped that our days of kow-towing to American interests had passed. Let me refer to the comments made by Chris Patten to the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs earlier today. He stated that the profligate use of sanctions throughout the globe was counterproductive. That is the context in which I wish to address this matter.

I was horrified to hear the Minister of State refer to the Secretary General's strong concern that the financial allocation and infrastructure requested by Iraq will not solve the existing problems of malnutrition and that, in his view, the necessary funds are available for the Government of Iraq to address urgently the nutritional requirements of the children of Iraq. Why, then, are the Secretary General's own staff resigning one after another, having experienced a learning curve in Iraq? Why was Denis Halliday on television in this country less than ten days ago saying that the Secretary General is aware of the situation in Iraq, but is not telling the truth about it? These are his own employees, so I disregard what the Secretary General said. In any case, if such a situation existed, how dare the Secretary General of the United Nations put accounting practice above the welfare of the vulnerable civilian population of Iraq. I am not a friend of the Iraqi administration, but I cannot believe an Irish Government would issue a statement such as this. It is a disgrace and should be withdrawn.

I do not often agree with his Holiness, Pope John Paul II, but I wish to record what he said recently:

Not far from Bethlehem and Nazareth, an entire people is the victim of a constraint which puts it in hazardous conditions of survival. I refer to our brothers and sisters in Iraq, living under a pitiless embargo. In response to the appeals for help which unceasingly come to the Holy See, I must call upon the consciences of those who, in Iraq and elsewhere, put political, economic or strategic considerations before the fundamental good of the people, and I ask them to show compassion. The weak and the innocent cannot pay for mistakes for which they are not responsible.

That is the crux of the matter. Under the United Nations and the ignorant guidance of the American Administration, we are putting an entire cultivated people at risk. We are living out the threatening words of Madeleine Albright when she said that she would put these civilised people back into the Dark Ages. That is not something with which I wish Ireland to be associated.

I was part of a delegation to Iraq. It was not a pleasant experience to visit there. I saw children in hospital and, out of shame and to cover my embarrassment, I brought in as much medicine as I could because I could not bear to be photographed with them when they would have to suffer something as simple as an earache or toothache because of the embargo on medicines. It is obscene that we should consider continuing with this embargo. We will never obtain complete coherence with Resolution 1254 and we must therefore have a diplomatic initiative. With our position on the Security Council and our involvement in monitoring the sanctions in Angola, we should use some muscle and express our strong view on Iraq and not just parrot American attitudes. We should take the initiative on the £1.7 billion worth of contracts which have been delayed by the 661 committee.

I wish to record the human face of the effects of sanctions because it is time we confronted them. It is very easy when one deals with figures and graphs. This quotation is from an Iraqi doctor, Emad Salman:

Dear friends, how does an Iraqi person see the sanctions? I'll give you some examples starting from myself. My father died two years ago because of the sanctions. I'll tell you how he died. Before his death he lost his sight completely for want of a simple antibiotic eyedrop. He developed an infection and the doctor prescribed the antibiotic eyedrops. But there was nothing in the chemists' in the city where he lived. Then by chance, when I phoned him, he asked me if it was possible to send him the prescribed medicine. I found it here easily; it cost me around £2.50. I packed it into an envelope, addressed it to his home in Iraq and sent it off; four weeks later it came back to me with a label saying that permission had not been granted due to the economic sanctions, and that I should contact the Department for Trade and Industry. I called the Iraq desk and then the sanctions desk. They told me that I had to fill in some forms and it would [take] a couple of weeks to obtain permission. I told them this was..absurd: medicine is exempt from sanctions. But this fell on deaf ears of the people at the DTI. Soon afterward, my father then developed a respiratory infection. The family rushed him to hospital – the largest in the town where he lived. At the emergency unit of that hospital they had only one cylinder of oxygen. The doctors told the family that it was a question of priority to whom they should give the oxygen – to an old man, to a young man or to a child. They urged that ‘Your father has seen life – let those children have the chance to live'. And he died the next day.

That is what the sanctions mean.

There are interruptions in drug supplies in Iraqi hospitals. That is hopeless. If people are put on a course of antibiotics and it is interrupted, not only is it useless but it also strengthens bacteria against a repeated dose. Incubators were allowed in but the nozzles connecting them to the oxygen supply were denied entry because they were capable of being used for military purposes. Heart medicine is denied under the double usage protocol because it contains nitroglycerine, as if out of one tiny pill one could extract a bomb. This is lunacy. It would need the genius and irony of Jonathan Swift to do it justice.

We should take the initiative and immediately insist that these sanctions be monitored and their effect assessed. We should suggest that we should attempt to broker a deal under which a reformed UNMOVIC would be allowed into Iraq for inspection purposes in exchange for a suspension of the sanctions. There should also be clear and independent auditing.

The situation in Iraq is desperate. The Gulf War provided the basis. In less than three weeks the U.S. press reported military calculations that the tonnage of high-explosive bombs already released had exceeded the combined allied air offensive of World War II. By the end of the assault, 110,000 aircraft sorties had dropped 88,500 tons of bombs on Iraq, the equivalent of seven and a half atomic bombs of the size that incinerated Hiroshima. The impact of that was concentrated on the targeting of water and sewerage facilities which led to the spillage of sewage into the Tigris River and on to the streets of Baghdad. Grain silos, factories, 28 hospitals, 52 community health centres and 676 schools were targeted and other buildings severely damaged or destroyed. That was before the sanctions came into operation. We need to examine the sanctions outside the framework of this accounting mentality.

The French foreign minister, Hubert Vedrine, said about sanctions on 2 August 2000:

They are cruel because they punish exclusively the Iraqi people and the weakest among them. They are ineffective because they do not touch the regime which is not encouraged to cooperate, and they are dangerous because they. . .accentuate the disintegration of society.

I am sure Senator Lanigan will agree that this is what we saw. Far from destabilising the regime, sanctions have created a martyr of Saddam Hussein and, to my horror, I saw that he is the most popular leader among the Arab states because of his antagonism towards the Israelis, something with which I do not agree.

There is considerable confusion. Our delegation would have given me the impression, had I been an Iraqi, that we would have been in favour of removing the sanctions completely. I am not. I am in favour of assessing and removing those which impact on the civilian population. I am in favour of things which prevent that monster getting his hands on weapons of mass destruction and I am in favour of the sequestration of the personal fortunes of every member of that evil regime. However, it is possible to separate out and safeguard the rights of the Iraqi civilian population.

Even the United Nations produces reports which are critical of the effects of sanctions. A UNICEF report stated:

In marked contrast to the prevailing situation prior to the events of 1990-1991 [that is the Gulf War], the infant mortality rates in Iraq today are among the highest in the world, low infant birth weight affects at least 23 per cent of all births, chronic malnutrition affects every fourth child under five years of age, only 41% of the population have regular access to clean water, 83 per cent of all schools need substantial repairs. The ICRC states that the Iraqi health-care system is today in a decrepit state. UNDP calculates that it would take $7 billion dollars to rehabilitate the power sector country-wide to its 1990 capacity.

That report came from within the United Nations. A series of reports from the United Nations and its various departments and organisations clearly indict the whole process of sanctions.

Yesterday we received an interesting briefing from Justin Kilcullen of Trócaire, who works with Caritas Iraq. This is the only non-governmental organisation working throughout Iraq and his comments were extremely interesting. He gave us updated figures. For example, the inflation rate is 5000% while the maternal mortality rate is 294 per 1,000 population. In Europe, the rate is ten per 1,000 population. The employment rate is 51% while the literacy rate has dropped from 90% to 60%. We saw people selling their books in Baghdad. University professors must sell their books to buy food. The so-called oil for food regime does not work, and it would not do so even if it was operating at its most efficient level because it provides for $3 per month per head of population. How far would any household in this country get on $3 per month? This is humanitarian aid.

I had a row with Tariq Aziz. I did not like him because I felt he was very patronising to our leader and he broke diplomatic protocol in the way he dealt with the delegation. He harangued us and brusquely dismissed any notion of the humanitarian aspects. He appeared to object to the word. However, I now understand it because he is being used to cover up a fraudulent cosmetic scheme which does nothing to help the people of Iraq. I do not want the impression to go out that I am pro-Saddam Hussein because I said to Mr. Aziz, when he was belly-aching about American aggression, that they were not virgins themselves. I said they had pegged a few items over the heads of the Israelis and the only merciful thing about it was that they could not shoot straight because most of them landed in the sand.

As this is International Women's Day, I wish to put another human face on this tragic situation. The following is the experience of an educated middle class Iraqi woman:

We did not feel it so much during the first years of the sanctions, but it really hit us in 1994. Social conditions had deteriorated. The currency had been devalued but salaries were fixed. Many women started to quit. Some of my friends could not even afford transportation to the school anymore. Before the sanctions, the school made sure that we were picked up by bus but all this was cut. For me, the most important reason to quit work was my children. I did not want them to come home and be alone in the house. It has become too unsafe. And I know from my own work that teaching has become so bad, because teachers are quitting and there is no money for anything. So I felt that I had to teach them at home.

This is what is being done to Iraqi women on International Women's Day.

I made some practical suggestions that Ireland could implement through the United Nations Security Council and I hope they will be acted on. I again accuse the United Nations Secretary General of shamefully concealing the truth. This has been told to him by a succession of his officials who have been on the ground and were so horrified by the situation that they were forced to resign.

Mr. Lanigan

I welcome the Minister to the House. I have spoken on many occasions about the situation in Iraq. I visited the country and saw the conditions on the ground before the sanctions were imposed. In the past two years, I visited Iraq twice and I have seen the unbelievable decimation of the population there. The message of Iraq was forcefully brought to us yesterday by Justin Kilcullen of Trócaire, who has just returned from a Caritas mission. He brought certain matters to our attention. I do not usually quote during my contributions but the message to the Caritas Europa delegation from His Beatitude Raphael 1st, the Chaldean Catholic Patriarch of Babylon, is worth repeating. The Chaldean church is associated with the Church of Rome. He said:

Killing a man in a forest is an unpardonable crime by law. Killing a nation, it would seem, is a matter of debate and perspective. The standards applied to the issue of Human Rights have become a travesty of justice in view of the impact of sanctions – and such is the case with the Iraqi people. Using Depleted Uranium on innocent, unarmed people is considered by the UN as a necessity of War. But a minor declaration by an Iraqi official is considered as an act of war. The killing of over 5,000 infants and children every month, the malformation of new-born infants, causing various kinds of cancer diseases, especially leukaemia, is not, it seems, subject to International Human Rights Law. You have witnessed with your own eyes the effect of such deadly weapons on the children of Iraq. I pray to God that you convey the message of truth as witnessed by your Delegation – as we consider you the Messengers of Peace. May God bless your efforts and your work.

Senator Norris referred to the following extract from the Caritas report.

In 1996, CBS News' 60 Minutes broadcast a chilling exchange. Correspondent Lesley Stahl interviewed Madeleine Albright, then US ambassador to the United Nations. Albright maintained that the sanctions had proved their worth because Saddam had made more admissions about his weapons programs and because he had recognized the independence of Kuwait (which he did in 1991, right after the war).

"We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima", said Stahl, "And, you know, is the price worth it?"

"I think this is a very hard choice," replied Albright, "but the price – we think the price is worth it."

Nobody, under any circumstances, could stand over that statement by a senior diplomat. However, it reflects much of the thinking in the United States and Great Britain which are maintaining the sanctions. The United Nations Security Council sanctions committee dictates whether sanctions are imposed on countries. There are 15 members of the sanctions committee, but only five have the right of veto. Two of those are the countries that are continuing the illegal strikes against Iraq and they will exercise their vetoes even if the majority of the other members decide to lift the sanctions.

The oil for food and medicine programme is a farce because the oil is provided by Iraq to buy food for Iraqis. If one read the literature, one would imagine somebody outside the country was providing food for oil. The Iraqi people produce the oil and they are allowed to sell a certain amount of it for food. They are allowed to use their own money to buy food and medicine. The story is misleading because for every $100, $53 goes towards reparations regarding the war against Kuwait. The Americans, the British and the allies who took part in that war are still being paid by the Iraqis. Only 47 cents of every $1 goes towards the food for oil programme.

The irony of the recent bombing by the British and Americans of civilians in Iraq is that the Iraqis will pay for the bombs. The Americans and the British are dropping bombs on Iraq that are paid for by Iraqis. This has not happened at any time anywhere else in the world. Nobody would allow themselves to be attacked with bombs for which they paid. This allows the British and American arms industry to make a huge profit. These countries can test their bombs in Iraq with impunity and claim they were dropped because their pilots were in danger. No British or American pilot has been shot in Iraq in approximately seven years. These people are sacrificed on the altar of so-called international diplomacy.

What has been said about Saddam Hussein's regime is correct. There is no doubt it is a totalitarian regime but there is no way it will be dislodged by the efforts of outside influences to destabilise it. Outside influences cannot destabilise the hold Saddam Hussein has on the people of Iraq. The only people who will destabilise the country are the people of Iraq themselves. However, there is no sign they will do so, therefore the sanctions have strengthened his regime. They have killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

There is no point pretending, as the Secretary General does, that the Iraqis could solve the problem by supplying the medicines for which they have not applied. They cannot do so because they have neither the transport nor the infrastructure. Most items in that country are perceived to have a dual purpose. Incubators for babies resemble half a barrel. They are just like containers or cots in which to put the child because there are no tubes to supply the child with the required oxygen. These tubes may be used in tanks or other military equipment.

Aid to Iraq through the Red Cross and the United Nations is a nonsense. Iraq is not a third world country but a country which could, if allowed, provide for its own people. It could provide its people with everything they need. It is not a refugee camp or a poor country. As Tariq Aziz said at the United Nations, children are dying in Africa because of poverty and a lack of resources. Children are dying in Iraq because they lack basic food, water and sewerage facilities. Their problems are caused by outside sources. If the sanctions were lifted in the morning, I have no doubt conditions would change dramatically for the people of Iraq.

British newspapers, who are very supportive of the arms industry, have been reporting that Iraq has the capacity to produce weapons of mass destruction. If the sanctions were lifted and Iraq was found to have the capacity to build these weapons, then it would be easy to take these weapons out, given the sophistication and improvement in armaments and war-making equipment in recent years.

Labhrás Ó Murchú

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and compliment Senator Norris on calling for this debate.

To some extent my faith in human nature has been strengthened in that some people are prepared to stand up and say what may not be regarded as politically correct. I do not think anyone could say it is correct to put the lives of hundreds of thousands of young children at risk and in some way regard that as a legitimate political weapon. It is totally and utterly wrong and not acceptable in any circumstances.

I am sorry we do not see as many pictures coming out of Iraq as we would like. The regime itself may be responsible for that because it has an awful lot to answer for. I cannot accept, however despicable the activities of the regime which brought about the Gulf War, that the reaction to that is any more justified.

I can understand why the Secretary General of the United Nations must put a particular spin on what is happening in Iraq, but I do not accept it is correct that the spin should be accepted by people like us who in many ways should regard ourselves as being neutral. We have a long history of suffering, oppression and being misrepresented. We found it very difficult to get across our message because we were not a major power. It seems to me that war games are going on at present and the citizens of Iraq are at the receiving end.

I am pleased to see in the Minister's statement that it is the intention of our representatives to pursue a course of action which will ensure that the citizens of Iraq will have an opportunity to receive medicines, food and other necessities. It is more important for the media in Ireland to give publicity to these issues. One gets the impression at times that there is a cartel in operation, even where the media are concerned, because of business interests. I can still recall during the Gulf War watching the war games on television. This is exactly what they were, using modern technology and exciting people, but not looking at the end product, that is, dead people, maimed bodies and people whose lives were shattered.

The media should take a stance in this instance. They do a great job in relation to deprived people in the Third World. They very often take a stand on behalf of one individual and make it headline material. Here we are talking not just about one individual but about a whole nation. One wonders whether it is about bringing about compromise or sending a message to people in other parts of the world that any actions on their behalf, even though they may have committed foul actions and have paid dearly for this, will be dealt with. It is important to respond to what is happening and hope our voice will grow in strength.

As a legislator, I would find it very difficult at any time to condone inflicting suffering on people in any part of the world. Given the various bodies who help those suffering in other parts of the world, with the support of the people, I have no doubt that if a poll were carried out and the facts were put before the people, well over 90% would say the sanctions should be lifted and the belligerence which is undermining these sanctions should be removed. We should listen to the voice and will of our people.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I wish to share my time with Senator Henry.

We discussed this matter previously in this House. A serious situation exists, given that the Minister has said today that this issue has been closely examined by the United Nations. The reality is that two of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council – the US and UK – recently proceeded to bomb Baghdad. This was a joint effort which did not have clearance from anywhere. The Minister of State expressed the hope that discussions can be restarted. If this country was bombed by two other countries which were members of the Security Council, would that be an encouragement to engage in dialogue with the UN?

The combined action of the US and the UK pushes away further the possibility of constructive dialogue to break the terrible impasse on sanctions against Iraq. The US and the UK should be condemned for their action. Who do they think they are to jointly bomb Iraq because they deemed it fit to do so in the absence of consultation or authorisation from any respected or formally constituted body? The Government should condemn them.

Ireland is a temporary member of the UN Security Council for a term of two years. The Minister of State outlined what the Secretary General believes to be the current position in Iraq. He should have told the House the Government's position. At a meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, the EU Commissioner for external relations, Mr. Chris Patten, said that sanctions have proven to be ineffective in addressing difficulties in international relations. That has been shown to be the case time and again. All peoples and nations have inherent pride and traditions, and when outsiders attack they rally to defend, regardless of how bad things are internally.

The world is aware Saddam Hussein has weaponry that is highly dangerous to world security. Surely a balance must be struck between that and the security of the vulnerable people of Iraq? According to the UN, the imposition of sanctions means that approximately five thousand children in Iraq die every week from malnutrition and various diseases. Despite this, the Minister of State outlined the views of other countries and organisations. This country should have a clearly thought out position on the issue.

Mr. E. Ryan

The Senator did not listen to me.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I have read the Minister of State's speech and he outlined the view of the Secretary General.

Mr. E. Ryan

The Minister visited Russia, France, Germany and Washington.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

He has taken a grand world tour and has collected the views of the various Governments.

Mr. E. Ryan

He is seeking to identify how Ireland can play a proper role.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

Has the Minister publicly condemned the US and the UK for bombing Iraq? He has not because of vested interests. Economic interest is more important than humanitarian interest.

Mr. E. Ryan

The Minister is trying to find a solution.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

In view of the lack of moral courage by small member states, such as Ireland, the five permanent members of the Security Council can act as they deem fit. It is important that they are called to task because it is unacceptable to allow them behave in this way.

Ireland has a voice in the EU. At the meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, Commissioner Patten pointed out that the EU does not have a common security policy. He differentiated between single and common policies. While we have a common security policy on certain issues, we can generally decide on whether to have a common or single foreign or security policy. In this regard we are not under an obligation to condemn fellow member states if they act contrary to what we believe is the correct course of action.

The situation in Iraq is very serious. What is to be done to rectify it? That is what should be addressed in this debate. The Minister of State said the Minister is considering what approach to take. He believes there should be greater flexibility to allow the Security Council take greater account of the humanitarian aspect and the effects of the sanctions. Is it necessary to impose the sanctions in such a severe, all-embracing manner? Could selective sanctions not be imposed to ensure that there would be less impact on the people of Iraq?

What is meant by oil for food? Senator Lanigan rightly said that oil is Iraq's product to sell. Surely it is the country's right to spend revenues raised from oil on humanitarian aid? Humanitarian aid is the wrong classification for such expenditure because it is concerned with the provision of necessities for the people. Should the basic essentials that this country needs and buys by way of imports be classified as humanitarian aid?

Our approach to this issue needs critical underlying analysis. It is not helpful to the ordinary vulnerable people of Iraq who are suffering dramatically. The international community, of which we are part, stands condemned for the way it has handled the matter.

Dr. Henry

I thank Senator Taylor-Quinn for sharing her time with me. It is good that so many Senators wish to contribute to this debate. While I welcome the Minister of State, his speech is not very helpful. Does Commissioner Patten realise that the Tánaiste, on a recent visit to Boston, said we were spiritually closer to Boston than Berlin? It appears we are far more in line with the US approach to Iraq than the EU. When Ireland secured a seat on the UN Security Council I was as proud as everyone else. However, I did not consider it to be an honorary position but one with great responsibility where tough decisions would have to be taken and where we would have to use our influence to the best for other small nations.

Last week I raised the matter of the Biological and Chemical Toxins Convention, 1975. When the Minister for Foreign Affairs visited Paris he was reported to have said that Iraq would have to give up its biological and chemical weapons before anything could be done about sanctions. Of course it should, but what about everybody else? What about the US and Russia? France and the UK say they do not hold biological and chemical weapons, but the convention is not open to verification. The reply I received was softly, softly. The Department will do its best by the end of the year when the situation regarding the verification protocol to the Biological and Chemical Toxins Convention is clear. We must, if necessary, take a much more aggressive approach.

The Gulf War was a failure. Senator Ó Murchú was correct to indicate the disgraceful way in which it was portrayed as a game. Do Members remember the surgical strikes, the collateral damage and the turkey shoot on the road to Basra? I went to Iran on behalf of the Irish Red Cross immediately after the war and saw what it had done to the Iraqi Kurds who had been left in the clothes in which they stood in the mountains of Iran. I never thought that the Iranians had received enough credit for what they did for them. They were terrific. I saw boxes with the words "Cumann Croise Deirge na hÉireann" marked on them and supplies being given out to the Kurds.

We have long had connections with Iraq. All one has to do is read the report on the beef tribunal and consider the number of people who sold beef there. We are in a position where we should be caring for its people. On top of the war, the sanctions have also been a failure. In the main it is women and children who are suffering. I dread to think of what has happened to the Marsh Arabs and the Muslims in the south of the country who were encouraged to rise up – if Members remember – by George Bush Senior, but nothing happened because no one was to be brought home to America in a body bag. I saw what had happened to the Kurds in the north, of whom a very large number are displaced.

One of the worst effects is that many children are dying due to the sanctions covering the bringing in of equipment to get sanitary facilities operating again. That is appalling. If ill children with serious carcinomas and leukaemia were dying, it would be bad enough, but it is disgraceful that healthy children running around the streets are becoming ill and dying because of the lack of clean water.

We must note what Denis Halliday said on a recent programme on RTÉ. I commend him enormously, as an Irish citizen, on resigning because of what the UN sanctions were doing to the people of Iraq. He was moving up the ladder of the UN administration, but could not put up any more with what was happening.

There are Iraqi refugees here, many of whom are professionals. I worked for many years with Iraqi doctors. They used to come here for training before the Gulf War. There are a considerable number of Iraqi doctors here seeking asylum. I want the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Refugee Commission to remember what happened to Saddam Hussein's two sons-in-law who went to Jordan but decided that they had to return. Both were executed.

Many of the doctors who have fled were in the army. A Iraqi doctor living abroad told me this story. Many Iraqi doctors flee because they are asked to perform unethical operations such as the amputation of the limbs of deserters. Will we send people back to a regime that has asked members of the medical profession within its armed forces to perform such acts? Let us try to do something for the Iraqis who have fled here from this repressive regime and, through the Security Council, in particular, for those in Iraq.

Mr. Connor

I wish to share my time with Senator Costello.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Costello)

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Connor

This debate on Iraq is timely. It enables the Irish Parliament to express a strong view on sanctions on Iraq. I welcome the Minister of State. I do not know if I ever spoke in a debate at which he was present.

In contrast with some of my colleagues, I pay tribute to the Government for not going along with the consensus on sanctions on Iraq. We have taken the position that we do not agree with the sanctions which have had a serious humanitarian effect on the people of Iraq. The Government's position on the matter must be complimented.

The Minister of State's contribution was criticised. I have no major argument with his essential message, but he was too diplomatic. Those in the Department of Foreign Affairs are always sensitive to the possibility of offending a certain major power which has an embassy in this city. We often pull our punches. We should express ourselves a little stronger. It is Irish foreign policy to be totally opposed to international sanctions. It has much to do with an element of revenge by the United States.

I am a great admirer of the United States of America, but not of the foreign policy of the Republicans, who have a majority in Congress, or the Republican Administration. Its foreign policy is often informed by a certain level of revenge or vengeance. That was true after the Korean war, the war in Vietnam and even after winning the war in Iraq. The United States was less successful in Vietnam and, in its own terms, only partially successful in Korea.

I abhor the regime of Saddam Hussein. I do not want to use abusive terms, but, in political terms, he is an ogre and an absolute monster. He conducts a regime which is totally repressive and oppressive of his people. It has no morality. If given a chance, it will prey upon its neighbours. It must be condemned. He, especially, must be condemned as a pariah and as being outside the pale of civilisation as we understand it.

It is wrong for the international community, led by the United States of America and the big five of the United Nations, to conduct a policy of sanctions on medical and food supplies against that regime in the mistaken belief that their imposition will eventually make the people rise up and overthrow it. That will not happen because the poor people of that country are demoralised by the attack on their nutrition and health. It is sapping their energy to live, let alone adopt a position of insurrection against an evil Government. Those are the effects of the sanctions.

As Senator Norris said, let us impose sanctions on war materials and the sale of arms and certain chemicals etc. Saddam Hussein and his regime can turn to the manufacture of weapons, including chemical weapons, but there is no reason we should have a sanctions regime that impacts only on the people of Iraq, in particular their healthcare.

I read the Caritas report supplied by Trocáire yesterday. It reveals some frightening figures and contains a great deal of information. Every indi cator reveals the impact of the sanctions is appalling. In 1989, prior to the Gulf War, Iraq was a prosperous country. While it did not have good governance, it was a prosperous country in comparison with other countries in that part of the world. It had one of the highest standards of living, one of the best systems of health care and education. By those indicators the country was doing well and there was a good deal of money circulating. It is one of the largest petroleum provinces in the world in terms of oil resources. The regime at least used some of its resources in those areas. It also spent enormous amounts of money in building a massive army and an industrial military complex which was badly defeated in the Gulf War. Iraq conducted a war with its neighbour, Iran, that lasted almost a decade. It was one of the great wars of modern times, but has not been written about because one million or two million people perished and very little is known about it. That is part of history.

The rate of infant and maternal mortality in Iraq has more than doubled, all because there is no medical care in hospitals for mothers and their babies. All essential services are collapsing. The electricity is being switched off and as a result people are dying because essential equipment in hospitals such as incubators and other life sustaining machines are switched off.

In 1989, 100% of the people living in Baghdad had access to clean water. Today about 90% of people living in Baghdad have access to clean water, although the city still has the best water purification equipment in the country. In 1998, 71% of the people in rural areas had access to clean water but today those systems have collapsed and this percentage has fallen to about 40%. There is a huge rural population in Iraq. Baghdad has a population of over five million, but there are 20 or 30 million people living in Iraq and most of them live in rural areas. They have not been affected by the modern western phenomenon, where most people live in urban areas.

Water-borne diseases such as cholera and polio, which only exist in the most underdeveloped countries and which were not known in Iraq 11 years ago, are now very prevalent. There are very few countries in that part of the world which are underdeveloped in the way we use that term regarding African countries, but that is what is happening in Iraq as a result of the effects of the war, which destroyed infrastructure such as water purification systems.

Although I wanted to address a few other issues, it is only fair that I should give at least six minutes to Senator Costello.

Mr. Costello

I thank Senator Connor for being kind enough to share his time with me. I welcome the Minister to the House and congratulate Senator Norris on his perseverance in getting this issue on the agenda. All the Senators who spoke expressed considerable concern about what is happening in Iraq. All of us have seen that the sanctions to deal with Iraq's programme of weapons of mass destruction have had a disproportionate effect on the civilian population of Iraq. We have been supplied by Trócaire with information on the Caritas Europa delegation's visit to Iraq in January. In his message to the delegation, the Chaldean Catholic Patriarch of Babylon stated:

Killing a man in a forest is an unpardonable crime by law. Killing a nation, it would seem, is a matter of debate and perspective.

In describing the prevailing situation in Iraq at the time, the 1999 UNICEF report stated:

In marked contrast to the prevailing situation prior to the events of 1990-1991 [that is, the Gulf War], the infant mortality rates in Iraq today are among the highest in the world, low infant birth weight affects at least 23% of all births, chronic malnutrition affects every fourth child under five years of age, only 41% of the population have regular access to clean water, and 83% of all schools need substantial repairs.

Prior to that war, Iraq was a prosperous nation. The Deputy Prime Minister of Iraq and Foreign Minister, Tariq Aziz, told the delegation:

But if the main objective of policy over the last ten years has been to change the leadership, this is not going to happen. If the objective was to break the will of the people, this is not going to happen. Therefore, if a policy does not work, it would be quite intelligent for politicians to change it. The current policy is a failure which is quickly becoming a tragic farce.

This is the 11th year of Gulf War sanctions and clearly they do not have the desired effect. If anything, they are strengthening the dictatorial totalitarian regime of Saddam Hussein. However, they have a serious effect on the most vulnerable in the population, the young, the elderly, the sick and those who cannot get essential medical supplies. No matter how we argue, these are the facts. We must find a mechanism to decouple the sanctions which were meant to prevent the development of biological weapons and weapons of mass destruction and the trade in weapons' parts, and the sanctions which affect the economic and social life of the community because that is the essence of the problem.

It is ironic that it is the same Governments, the United States and Britain, which were responsible for imposing the sanctions and argue for the need to fully implement the UN resolution, which only a month ago bombed Iraq without consultation with the United Nations Security Council or other European countries. Therefore, there are cowboys acting on both sides.

The last time serious world sanctions were imposed on a country was in the case of South Africa, but that was requested by the representatives of the civilian population of that country. The opposite is the case here.

These countries, the United States and Britain, have acted hypocritically. These same countries, with Germany and other European countries, supplied Saddam Hussein with the hardware which enabled him to come to power and to remain in power. That is what enabled him to become a dictator. Now he sees himself as a scapegoat when he is declared to be the greatest tyrant of the world. I say that not to condone in any way what he is doing but to show the hypocritical nature of world politics.

We must try to see if we can make a contribution to improve the situation. We can talk about it forever but unless we are able to make practical and positive suggestions, we will go around in circles. Ireland is now in a position to help for a number of reasons, particularly because we successfully attained that elusive and much sought after seat on the Security Council. We received 100% support from the Arab world, which voted for us. With the help of the European Union, we can reopen dialogue between Iraq and the United Nations and between Iraq and the United States and Britain.

I would like to see Ireland taking the initiative. I welcome the degree to which the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Cowen, condemned the latest air strikes last month, but Ireland should take the initiative and come up with a new formula to try to resolve the problem. We can do it with the goodwill of the Arab world, the European Union and virtually all the small states which helped us attain a seat on the Security Council. We can be influential because Ireland is not a major power and does not have an imperial past and, therefore, nobody has an axe to grind with us in that respect.

We should show up the contradiction of on the one hand asserting the United Nations Security Council resolution on sanctions and at the same time trying to abide by the United Nations Charter on Human Rights, which is constantly being abused due to the manner in which these sanctions have been implemented over the past ten years.

Ireland should not only condemn the sanctions and the political regime in Iraq, but also start a new initiative. The Iraqi regime will continue to act in a political fashion. Saddam Hussein will use the sanctions as his best weapon in the fight to retain power and to maintain his dictatorial regime. Ireland should now be in a position to lead the move towards a reopened dialogue and a new formula to resolve the crisis and the terrible suffering in Iraq.