The Order of Business is No. 1, Social Welfare Bill, 2001 – Committee and Remaining Stages; No. 2, earlier signature motion, to be taken without debate at the conclusion of No. 1; and No. 20, motion No. 27, to be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. Business, if not previously concluded, will resume thereafter.
Order of Business.
It comes as a surprise that we are taking all Stages of the Social Welfare Bill today. I understood that we were to take Committee Stage. Perhaps the Leader will clarify that.
On other business, on the last occasion on which we met I asked for an early debate on Northern Ireland. I believe now more than ever that we should have such a debate. There is no impending or immediate crisis there, but there is effectively a stalemate and a debate would be very useful.
I also ask the Leader if we can have a debate within the next two days on the current teachers' dispute. Such a debate might not be helpful if we were in the middle of delicate negotiations, but clearly there are no negotiations at present. There is an impasse. This is a matter of huge public concern which is being discussed throughout the country and there is an enormous level of frustration. Members on all sides of the House have strong views on the matter and would like an opportunity to air them in this House. I ask, therefore, for a debate on the current dispute.
I previously asked that time be allocated for a debate on the economic climate. The House should carefully note the series of job losses in the IT sector during the past two months and the lay-off of 1,400 workers in Intel, which has had a significant impact on the economy. The two year low in the Nasdaq and the New York market and the downturn in the American economy will affect our economy. I would like the Minister for Finance to tell us how he sees us being guided through this downturn and his policies over the next 18 months to sustain growth. Ireland is fourth in line in terms of European inflation and it is important that we recognise this in the context of a recent discussion.
I also seek a debate on developments in the corner of the world between Kosovo, Albania and Macedonia, where we are seeing a re-run of what happened 18 months ago 100 miles north. It is hugely important that Ireland, as a member of the Security Council, takes a serious interest in what is happening there. It would be useful to have a debate at this time to allow the Minister for Foreign Affairs put forward the Government's view on the matter and the direction we will push.
I also seek clarification on the Social Welfare Bill. I understood that Committee Stage only was being taken today. I am opposed to the taking of all Stages of the Bill today. On item 2, why is a motion for early signature required for the Social Welfare Bill?
Will the Leader tell the House what has happened to the electoral Bill, which we were told would be introduced the week after St. Patrick's Day? Given the importance of the Bill and the degree to which it has been discussed in the media and the public arena, I would like the Leader to give a commitment that it will be taken next week.
I wish to be associated with Senator Manning's call for a debate on the teachers' dispute. The last time the House sat was prior to the Labour Court recommendation. At that time we thought we would know how the wind was blowing, but we now find that the Labour Court recommendation put nothing else on the table. The situation seems to be as entrenched as ever. I would like the Minister to come into the House and explain benchmarking to me. I was flabbergasted to hear Senator O'Toole describe benchmarking as a trip to the ATM, the hole in the wall.
(Interruptions.)
That sounds like daylight robbery and I thought benchmarking was a more complex issue. I would like to know if the Minister for Education and Science shares Senator O'Toole's view. This is a serious issue and we have reached the stage where the oral and practical examinations are gone by the wayside.
The Senator must not pre-empt the debate.
We have to find a formula to resolve the dispute. The megaphone diplomacy taking place between the Minister, the Taoiseach and the union is not good enough.
We are not having the debate now.
I ask for a full debate now. Previously it was urged that we should not have a debate as the discussions were at a sensitive stage. They are not sensitive any longer – or they are sensitive if one—
I have given the Senator much latitude. We are not having the debate now. Everyone understands that you support the request for a debate.
We have not had an opportunity to have a debate up to now. It is 12 months since this dispute started and I want to underline that two days will be lost this week and three days will be lost next week.
The Senator is pre-empting the debate which he is seeking.
The situation is getting out of hand, yet the Government does not seem to care.
The Senator has made his point.
I would like the Leader to agree to allocate time for a debate. If he gives us some commitment in this regard, we will not oppose the Order of Business.
Perhaps the House will compliment the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development and his Department on the important measures taken in recent weeks to prevent foot and mouth disease from entering this country. We hope those measures will continue to be successful in the coming weeks.
Mr. Hayes
I hope he continues those measures.
Certainly people here generally appreciate that the Minister and his officials have done an excellent job, particularly when compared to what has happened with our neighbours.
Has the Senator a question for the Leader of the House?
I have indeed. Will the Leader arrange for a debate on banking and the provision of banking services? I called for this debate some weeks ago. It is opportune to have such a debate given that a large number of the commercial banks are abandoning small towns and villages and closing down their outlets there. There is an opportunity now for the post offices—
The Senator could have supported our Bill.
That was defective legislation. There is an opportunity for post offices and credit unions to come forward and fill the void. A debate in this House would allow us to expand on that. I ask the Leader to afford us the opportunity of that debate as soon as possible.
I support Senators Manning and Costello in calling for a debate on the ASTI strike. An issue touched on by Senator Costello which is worthy of airing is benchmarking. There is confusion among teachers and everybody else with regard to what is meant by benchmarking.
We—
I am never obstructive or long-winded in this House. The confusion on this issue is whether it is a measure against the private sector, the public sector or the individual teacher. Clarification on that issue is needed and it would clear the air.
The other issue I wish to raise is in regard to the local government Bill. We have been promised time and again by the Leader of the House that this issue would be dealt with by April. It will soon be April and no progress has been made on this Bill apart from Second Stage being taken in the Lower House – I notice it has been taken off the Order Paper there. Will the Leader assure the House that this Bill will be dealt with? We on this side tried to be helpful in every way, including proposing a Bill, only to find we are debarred from it because there is a financial implication. There are many people who are waiting for this Bill to be passed and the Leader should come forward and tell us what is holding it up.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to come before the House and explain why there was no ministerial presence at the EU meeting in Brussels last Monday on human trafficking? I know we were well represented by our ambassador, Ambassador O'Leary, but given the seriousness of the problem – I believe that the Minister is bringing forward legislation – it is extraordinary that no one from the Government could be found to attend that very important meeting. I gather that the financial gains from trafficking people into the EU are greater than from trafficking drugs, and we all know how much money is made from drugs.
While I support the call by Senators Manning and Costello for a debate on the teachers' dispute, as an ASTI member I have been raising the issue for the past 12 months and I do not have the patience for a debate. I do not think we will have such a debate. I suggest to the Leader that he ask the Minister for Education and Science or the Taoiseach – the Minister for Education and Science probably will not respond – to consider the possibility of getting Kieran Mulvey, former ASTI general secretary, to intervene. There are ways and means if people want to solve disputes—
These are matters which can be dealt with much more appropriately in the debate that is sought.
The debate will not take place. I have been asking for it for the past 12 months.
The Senator does not know that and I do not know that.
It has not taken place in the past 12 months and my patience has run out.
A request has been made to the Leader for a debate.
I ask that Kieran Mulvey intervene because he would understand both sides well from his experience as chairperson of the Labour Relations Commission and former General Secretary of the ASTI. He may be the only person who can resolve this dispute because the Taoiseach and the Minister for Education and Science do not seem to be able to do anything.
They should go to the Labour Court.
I support Senator Manning's request that we take only Committee Stage of the Social Welfare Bill today – I assumed we would take only Committee Stage. A number of amendments have been tabled to the Bill and it seems wrong that the House should debate all Stages of a Bill in one day, except in urgent cases.
I congratulate the nation as a whole on combating the foot and mouth disease. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation to come to the House to ensure that we make it clear, particularly to potential tourists, that they can visit Ireland? It is possible to maintain the tourism industry while also maintaining the controls put in place to which we have strictly adhered in the past few weeks. It is possible to do both but this is not being said. Some of the messages going across the Atlantic are to the effect that Ireland is a no-go area. Let us ensure this does not happen and the Minister should come into the House to outline how we can get the balance right.
There are 285 days to go before the introduction of the euro. I previously asked for a debate on this issue but it seems that as each week goes by we hear that the country is ill-prepared for the changeover to the euro. With 285 days to go we should debate this issue immediately to remind ourselves of what has to be done.
There are many definitions of what constitutes benchmarking.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
I always thought benchmarking was when one scraped one's name on one's desk with a protractor. I came into town today at 11.30 a.m. and witnessed what the television advertisement describes as "total gridlock". What progress has been made on the upgrading of the Arrow line for the misfortunate people of Clondalkin and Lucan? This upgrading is to take place but I was disappointed to hear that the date for completion of the work has been put back. We must avoid ending up with anarchy on the streets. Will the Leader ask the Minister to come into the House to give us hope that this ridiculous situation will end soon?
If, by some miracle, we have a debate on education, will the Leader ask the Minister to focus on the issue of children with special needs who are concerned about examinations? Will the Leader also inquire as to whether the oral examinations will go ahead? Many people have asked this question, to which there seems to be no answer.
Will the Leader arrange for a general debate on the needs of children? Such a debate is necessary given reports that private firms are looking after children who should be in secure accommodation with proper back-up services. We should debate the inadequacy of services for these children.
Today is International Anti-racism Day. Will the Leader make time available today to allow the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to make a statement of good intent and to outline Government policy on this issue? Perhaps the Minister might also explain why he, or someone deputising for him, did not attend the EU Council of Ministers meeting on trafficking in humans.
I concur with the comments of Senators on the teachers' dispute. This is a serious matter and it is time the House conveyed to the Taoiseach the urgent need for him to become involved in this issue to help resolve the matter before a major crisis occurs, particularly for students.
I too express concern regarding the teachers' dispute. Both sides should try to find some way of resolving this matter. People must realise that the matter will not be resolved from entrenched positions.
I support my colleague, Senator Finneran, concerning the provision of banking and financial services in rural areas. We are in the process of adopting a national spatial policy, yet in introducing the recent financial regulatory legislation to deal with financial institutions, we find that the Central Bank plays a key role in examining financial services. It is within the remit of the Department of Finance to examine this aspect of the matter. It is time for the Government to address this need, particularly in rural areas.
I agree with Senator Jackman and other speakers who have mentioned the secondary teachers' dispute. Whether one listens to teachers, pupils or parents, they all want those concerned to start talking. Seanad Éireann should send that message to the Taoiseach and the Minister for Education and Science who have a duty to govern and lead.
And the ASTI.
The relevant parties should start talking in order to resolve this serious issue.
The Senator is right.
We should not talk about relaxing regulations on foot and mouth disease.
Does the Senator have a question on the Order of Business for the Leader of the House?
I want to make a point which I would like the Leader to relay to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. Yesterday, in Britain, there was a higher number of new incidences of foot and mouth disease than on any other day during the current outbreak. People should remember that fact before they start talking about relaxing regulations or complimenting Ministers.
Nobody asked for a relaxation. Get it right.
The message that we are still in this crisis should be sent to the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, and to the Minister, Deputy Walsh. We have a long way to go.
Everyone on the Government side of the House wishes to see the teachers' dis pute settled this minute, if at all possible. The Government has done everything—
The Minister for Education and Science went to Asia.
—to grant every request the teachers put forward for conciliation, arbitration, the Labour Court and discussions, but they turned them down. There is nothing more we can do. I would ask the ASTI to reconsider. Let us all sit around the table. All I want are talks.
We are not debating the matter here.
We want to have talks. One cannot solve a problem without talking.
The Senator should try to tell the children that.
There is nobody better than our Taoiseach for sitting around the table and talking about this issue, but there must be goodwill on both sides and we are not getting that at the moment. The ASTI should look at the situation and re-enter talks.
Fifteen months later they are still looking.
We are all willing and we would be on the teachers' side if they would do that.
I agree with Senator Manning and other speakers about the absolute necessity for dialogue to resolve the ongoing teachers' dispute immediately. There may be an honest broker – in fact, there may be one behind my back in this House – who could arrange for them to jump together and get them to understand the codes.
There is one in front of the Senator.
I was referring to my fellow Kerryman.
He will have to jump the bench.
As regards the ongoing threat posed by foot and mouth disease, and particularly in view of the fact that yesterday saw the highest number of cases yet recorded in Britain – I think it was 47 – it is absolutely essential that vigilance should be maintained. The Leader should invite the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development to the House because urgent clarification is required concerning the Government's precise guidelines on domestic travel curbs. What is being done to monitor the controls that are supposedly in place? Tourism interests in County Kerry are very concerned and confused about these matters. I thought it was accepted that there was no restriction for people within the country who are not coming from or going to farms.
On this and all related points, we need urgent clarification. I call on the Leader to invite the Minister to the House to debate this matter and to outline the Government's position.
Mr. Ryan
With regard to Senator Finneran's comments, I think the point is well made. People have responded very well. Perhaps, as a good patriotic gesture, Fianna Fáil should call off its Árd-Fheis, because of the risk involved. Such a voluntary gesture would be in the spirit of this debate and would be in keeping with that party's portrayal of itself as not just a political party but a national movement.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader on the Order of Business?
Mr. Ryan
I ask the Leader for a debate at some stage on the quality of life. We know about the traffic problem and the housing crisis. The EU has named our two largest cities as being among the greatest offenders in the matter of water pollution. We know that air quality is deteriorating. Yet, according to this week's issue of The Economist, Ireland is the fifth richest country in the OECD. It is time we had a serious debate on how we use our wealth.
The Senator should not read right-wing publications.
Mr. Ryan
When does the Leader propose to take No. 7, the Transport (Rail Infrastructure) Bill which, among other things, provides that railway development will be exempt from planning requirements? It also provides for compulsory purchase, even where railways are being privately developed. I find both of those concepts very interesting. The House deserves some notice of when that legislation will be taken. I hope the Leader can give me some information on that.
I support all of my colleagues in calling for wise counsel and a sensible debate on the current crisis in education. It would be easier to resolve this if the Government, as the one lawbreaker in this situation, would restrain its vocabulary. Everybody else has been exercising their legal rights, however intemperately. The Government broke the law, and was found by the Data Commissioner to have done so. I hope he prosecutes.
My request is for a debate on something rather narrower than the quality of life.
(Interruptions.)
Senator Ross, without interruption, please.
I congratulate Senator O'Toole on showing great leadership by not calling for a debate on the teachers' dispute, which is unusual for him, and also for keeping the INTO out of this dispute, which is causing so much grief elsewhere. I think we should have a debate on the teachers' dispute. It would be appalling if we could not have such a debate on a day when the pupils, who are prisoners of this dispute, are marching the streets. I add my voice to those who want that debate.
I particularly support Senator O'Toole's comments in relation to the economy and I ask the Leader for an assurance that we will have a debate. It would be timely if the Tánaiste or the Minister for Finance came before the House to inform Members of the preparations being made for the next year in the event of a serious recession hitting the United States economy and, thus, affecting the Irish economy. There is no doubt that our booming economy is under serious threat and it is time the House debated the matter.
I am sure Members on both sides agree it was with sadness that we learned at the weekend that the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Mary Robinson, a former Member of the House, will not be seeking a second term. When she completes her term of office, will the Leader invite Mrs. Robinson to address the House on the issue of human rights and the difficulties she experienced at the UN?
We have had enough of her.
We most certainly have not. I support Senator Joe Doyle's call for Mrs. Robinson to address the House. She has done credit to this House and the country in general. The most important work she has done to date was during her service as United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. Mrs. Robinson has exposed the fact that her office at the UN was underfunded. I hope she will live up to her promise of continuing her interest in human rights.
I support calls for a debate on the traffic problem. Senator Ryan pointed out that No. 7 on the Order Paper relates to railway infrastructure. If such a debate is arranged, the Minister would have the opportunity to provide an update on the metro or underground section of the Luas which was fought for and won in this House.
In light of the fact that this is anti-racism day, will the Leader communicate to the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, our congratulations for his clear, unambiguous and forthright statement on this issue in today's newspapers? Commentators have been calling on politicians to take a lead in this area and the Taoiseach was successful in doing so.
I also congratulate the Taoiseach on his brilliant speech at the launch of the mv Ulysses where he demonstrated that the novel Ulysses is about an Irishman who is accused of being a politician, devious, cute and scheming, but who, in the end, is discovered to be a visionary. The mv Ulysses, which the House should salute, is the largest car ferry in the world and it will go part of the way to solving some of our immediate tourism problems because it will transport two million cars into this country each year. This is a development of which the Irish can be proud.
My final point relates to teachers. Are they joking? If they are trying to call—
Senator Norris, this is entirely irrelevant to the Order of Business.
Will the Leader convey to EU Commissioners that when they visit Ireland and make speeches about it, they should obtain updated information? The EU Commissioner to whom I am referring quoted a report dating back to 1998 when Senator Ryan's party was in Government. I congratulate the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Dempsey, on the great work that has been done since that date. The county managers of Cork and Dublin have attested to the fact that our standards are now of a very high quality.
On a point of order, Senator Farrell referred to 1998. At that time the current Administration was in power.
I took the EU Commissioner's word for it. On the basis of what Senator Manning has just pointed out, the Commissioner's information was even more inaccurate.
Senators Manning and Costello inquired about the Order of Business. I have confirmed with the Government Whip that the Order of Business, as it appears on today's Order Paper, was notified to the party Whips last week.
On a point of order, there was a tradition where the Whips used to meet each week. However, that has not happened during this session. We do not agree to Committee and Final Stages of one of the most important items of legislation being taken together. I believe that Senator Dardis and Members representing other parties also do not agree with this procedure. We are simply saying—
The Senator has made his point.
Senators Manning, Costello and 12 other Members expressed their concerns about the teachers' dispute. I will convey their views to the Minister and will endeavour to have this matter debated in the House at the earliest opportunity.
I welcome Senator Manning's request for a debate on Northern Ireland. I will try to make time available for this within the coming week.
Senators O'Toole and Ross called for a debate on the economy. As the House knows, the Minister for Finance will be in the House next week for two days with the Finance Bill. That might present an opportunity on Second Stage to discuss that matter in the short term. In the longer term I have no difficulty in allocating time for a debate on the economy.
Senator O'Toole raised the events taking place in Macedonia. I will pass on the Senator's views to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and I will allocate time for a debate with the Minister present in the House. In relation to Senator Costello's question on the electoral Bill, I will come back to the Senator on the up to date timing of that Bill.
Senators Finneran and Chambers called for a debate on banking, in particular the changing trends in banking where there will be an opportunity for post offices, credit unions and all other financial establishments to assist communities not only in rural Ireland but also in the bigger towns and cities. The proposal to have a debate on banking is worthwhile and I will agree to have that in the coming weeks.
Senator Coogan called for a timescale in regard to the Local Government Bill. Second Stage of the Local Government Bill is now in the Dáil and it is the Government's intention that the Bill will be through both Houses by the summer recess. I will pass on Senator Henry's views to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
Senator Quinn called for the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation to come to the House for a debate on the effect of the foot and mouth problem on tourism. I congratulate Senator Quinn on the major efforts he made over the St. Patrick's weekend and all that he has done for tourism in the capital city. I congratulate also everyone who came here for the St. Patrick's weekend for the various events that had to be scheduled over a five day period. That was fantastic and it is people like Senator Quinn, and the spirit in which his committee has worked, that will keep tourism alive over this difficult time. The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Tourism, Sport and Recreation will meet tomorrow morning with everyone involved in the industry. I have no difficulty in allocating time for a debate at the earliest possible time, perhaps next week, with the agreement of the Whips.
Senators Ridge, Ryan and Norris called for a debate on transport, progress under the national development plan and the way the various schemes are being put in place. Now that the money has been allocated, this is a worthwhile opportunity to have a review after 12 months and I will allow time for such a debate.
Senator Keogh called for a debate on the needs of children. I will allocate time for that debate also. I will pass Senator Taylor-Quinn's views on to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
Senators Finneran, Chambers, Tom Hayes and Coghlan expressed views about the foot and mouth crisis. The spread of that disease is our worst fear. People have been very responsible up to now but there is a long way to go. We can see on our television screens every night the horror that is being experienced. It is unbelievable how an economy and a whole community can be brought to its knees in a matter of hours by this plague. I congratulate the press, television, the media generally and everyone concerned who are playing their part. I agree with the sentiments expressed by many senior figures in the Seanad today and those who are experienced in the field of agriculture that under no circumstances can we relax in terms of the terrible threat facing our shores. If a debate is necessary, I will certainly allocate time for that.
Senator Ryan called for a debate on the quality of life. I have no difficulty with that. Many debates have been called for and perhaps after the Order of Business the Leaders can agree to sit on a number of Fridays to facilitate the requests being made here today.
(Interruptions.)
Senator Cassidy, without interruption.
Senators Ryan and Norris called for a debate on transport and traffic. I have already addressed that. Senator Doyle and Senator Norris congratulated the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Mary Robinson, and I wish to be associated with those words which will be passed on to her.
Senator Norris also congratulated everyone associated with the new car ferry, which can take two million cars a year and will give badly needed help to the tourism business. I too congratulate all involved.
I will pass on Senator Farrell's views to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Dempsey.
Question put: "That the Order of Business be agreed."
Tá
|
Bohan, Eddie.Bonner, Enda.Callanan, Peter.Cassidy, Donie.Chambers, Frank.Cregan, JohnDardis, John.Farrell, Willie.Finneran, Michael.Fitzgerald, Tom.Fitzpatrick, Dermot.Gibbons, Jim.Glennon, Jim. |
Glynn, Camillus.Kett, Tony.Kiely, Daniel.Leonard, Ann.Lydon, Don.Mooney, Paschal.Moylan, Pat.O'Brien, Francis.Ó Fearghail, Seán.Ó Murchú, Labhrás.Ormonde, Ann.Quill, Máirín.Walsh, Jim. |
Níl
|
Burke, Paddy.Caffrey, Ernie.Coghlan, Paul.Connor, John.Coogan, Fintan.Costello, Joe.Cregan, Denis (Dino).Doyle, Joe.Hayes, Tom.Henry, Mary.Jackman, Mary.Keogh, Helen. |
McDonagh, Jarlath.Manning, Maurice.Norris, David.O'Dowd, Fergus.O'Meara, Kathleen.O'Toole, Joe.Quinn, Feargal.Ridge, Thérèse.Ross, Shane.Ryan, Brendan.Taylor-Quinn, Madeleine. |
Tellers: Tá, Senators T. Fitzgerald and Gibbons; Níl, Senators Burke and Ridge.
Question declared carried.