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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 5 Apr 2001

Vol. 166 No. 3

Teaching Council Bill, 2000: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I am very happy to be in a position to introduce the Teaching Council Bill which is extremely important for teachers, pupils and their parents, and for the country as a whole. Its general aim is to provide for the establishment of standards, policies and procedures for the education and training of teachers, which will include a professional code of conduct. In particular, the Bill will provide for the establishment of a Teaching Council. It will allow the 45,000 teachers in the education system a large degree of self-regulation and professional autonomy. It will enhance the status and morale of the teaching profession and underpin the excellent quality of education already provided. For students and their parents, the Bill will provide the assurance that the teachers who work with their children meet the highest standards of professional qualification and competence through a professional code of conduct. It will also provide parents with a clear and transparent course of action in the event of a teacher failing to meet these standards. It will copperfasten the high standard of education provided, which has been so important to the State's recent economic and social development, and which continues to be important for the future of the nation as a whole.

Work on the establishment of a teaching council in Northern Ireland is ongoing and what we do here today will ensure that teachers in Ireland, both North and South, will be in a position to move forward together. The establishment of teaching councils in both parts of Ireland will ensure that the high standards of teaching, North and South, of which we are so justly proud, will continue, and will be seen to continue, in the future.

This Bill will enhance further the status of teaching as a profession. The council will play a central role in ensuring that the high standards of our teachers and of education will not be just maintained, but strengthened. The establishment of the council will allow teachers themselves to undertake the functions necessary to ensure that quality remains the trademark of the teaching profession.

Already, we have similar professional bodies such as the Medical Council and the Nursing Board. It is timely now that the State should formally recognise that teachers have their own professional role in a Teaching Council. This will confirm their status, entitle them to self-regulation and empower them with greater responsibility for educational standards and quality.

This Bill represents the culmination of a process of consultation and deliberation which began two and a half years ago with the establishment of a steering committee, in which teachers were centrally involved. It advised the Minister on the establishment of a council. Its report was published in October 1998 and the drafting of this legislation was based on its conclusions and recommendations which were agreed by all involved.

The establishment of a Teaching Council was advocated in a range of official reports, including the 1991 OECD review of Irish education and the 1992 Green Paper, Education for a Changing World. Teachers themselves, as well as the other partners in education, sought the establishment of such a council. They believe, as I do, that a council will have a major role in recognising the contribution of teachers as professionals possessing the knowledge and expertise, not only to shape the future of their profession, but also to contribute effectively to the future direction of education policy.

The council will be an independent, statutory agency, which will exercise the powers and perform the functions through which teachers can achieve a large degree of professional autonomy and self-regulation. It will have a statutory role in the regulation of the teaching profession and the professional affairs of teachers, and an advisory role in relation to other matters.

Section 7 of this Bill outlines the functions of the council, which are: to promote teaching as a profession; establish, review and maintain codes of professional conduct for teachers; establish and maintain a register of teachers; establish and promote standards in programmes of teacher education and training regulation; promote the continuing education and training and professional development of teachers; conduct inquiries into and, where appropriate, impose sanctions regarding teachers' fitness to teach. The council will also conduct or commission research, represent the teaching profession on educational issues and provide advice to the Minister.

Section 8 provides for a broad representation of interests on the 37 member council. As is the norm in the case of professional bodies, the majority of members will be drawn from the teaching profession and will be elected by practising teachers. It is important that it should also have access to expertise from areas outside, but interested in, the teaching profession. The steering committee, representing the partners in education, recommended the composition as outlined in this Bill. It is on the basis of their recommendation that the Bill provides for the teacher training colleges, parents' associations and management bodies to have representation.

I have also provided for five persons representative of outside interests to be appointed to the council. Of these five, one each will be nominated by ICTU and IBEC. I am also considering including a representative from a post-primary student council as one of my nominees. I am confident that the broad based composition of the Teaching Council will be an important factor in ensuring widespread support for its work and overall success in promoting best practice within the teaching profession.

Teachers have much to gain from the Teaching Council. Working through and in consultation with the council, they will play a key part in the self-regulation and development of their profession. Within the framework provided by the council, teachers will be able to address issues of professional autonomy in the context of teaching. Their professional status and recognition will be enhanced greatly by many elements of the Bill, in particular by the professional code of conduct provided for in section 6. The council will be responsible for the drafting of this code and I envisage that it will encompass a statement of professionalism agreed by all teachers. Being part of a recognised, collective professional identity with statutory authority will enhance the status and identity of teachers.

The Teaching Council will be the voice of teachers by promoting the profession through a celebration of achievements and by raising public awareness of the way teachers work and of the environment in which they work. An improved and widely promoted image of the profession will benefit the teachers of today and encourage new entrants for the future. The Teaching Council will play an important part also in ensuring that the in-career professional development of teachers remains relevant to their short-term and long-term needs. The council will advise the Minister in relation to standards for entry into programmes of teacher education and training and teacher supply. Its particular role in this regard will be to ensure that the professional needs of the teaching profession are recognised when policy decisions are taken in key areas. With the new professional image provided by the Teaching Council, teachers will be better placed to input into policy development.

In common with most self-regulated professions, the Teaching Council will establish and maintain a register of its members as provided for in section 31 of this Bill. The register of teachers will be the main regulatory instrument of the council and will stand as a verifiable expression of the standard of teaching, knowledge, skill and competence that teachers aspire to have and maintain. Section 31 also provides for the Teaching Council to decide on the information to be held on the register and on what type of information will be made available to the public. The register will include specified details for each registered teacher, including the findings of any disciplinary proceedings and the period for which such information will remain on the register.

The council will publish the register and make it available for inspection. Each teacher must have attained a satisfactory level of professional qualification and training to be entitled to register, and only those who achieve such standards will be able to work and be paid as teachers in State funded positions. The register will effectively act as a statement of the standards required of teachers. Following the initial period of registration, teachers will renew their registration annually.

For parents, the Teaching Council will provide an assurance that the teachers who work with their children have been recognised as meeting the highest standards of professional qualification and competence. Where parents have concerns regarding their children's teacher, there will now be a clear and transparent course of action available to them, with procedures to safeguard the rights and duties of all parties with appropriate remedies, where such are found to be needed. If the setting and maintaining of standards by the Teaching Council on behalf of the teaching profession is to have any meaning, the council must have power to act in the event of a teacher failing, for whatever reason, to reach these standards. Thus, a procedure for dealing with complaints against a teacher is set out in section 42 of the Teaching Council Bill, whereby the council may establish committees to assist, advise or perform any function it may wish to delegate.

Two committees will deal with complaints received by the council, the investigating committee and the disciplinary committee. These committees will be empowered to investigate and adjudicate on complaints where it is alleged that teachers have failed to meet acceptable standards of practice. The members of the committees will be drawn from the membership of the Teaching Council as laid down in sections 27 and 28 and will operate under procedures drawn up by the council to protect the rights of all concerned. In particular, any teacher against whom a complaint is made will have his or her rights to due process fully observed and a teacher's right of recourse to the courts will not be impinged.

Section 44 of the Bill provides the Teaching Council with a range of remedies in the event of a teacher being found unsatisfactory following the procedures which I have just outlined. For example, a teacher may be retained on the register, subject to conditions which are intended to assist the teacher to overcome the difficulties encountered. Other options include referral of the teacher to the teacher welfare service or to a relevant professional development course or suspension of the teacher from the register for a period of time. In a very serious case, a teacher may be permanently removed from the register, which would obviously be a very serious matter. In recognition of the consequences of deregistration, any such decision by the council will require the assent of the High Court, as provided for in section 44.

The manner in which the Teaching Council addresses the difficult but important task of disciplining a member will be watched with interest by all of us interested in education. The relevant provisions in the Bill adequately meet the needs of these cases. The provisions are a fine balance between respecting the rights of teachers to fair consideration and due process and the rights of students and parents to have confidence in the system of redress open to them in the event of a complaint against a teacher.

The Teaching Council will give members of the profession a significant measure of control over professional issues relating to all aspects of the teaching career, including recruitment and sup ply, initial preparation, induction, probation, career development and professional conduct and competence. For the first time there will be a unified framework in place for the recognition of teachers and the accreditation of programmes of teacher education and training. Previously at first level, the Department's inspectors have had a role in this area; at second level, the task has fallen to the Secondary Teachers Registration Council.

In the changing and increasingly complex academic and professional world a unified approach is needed. Increasingly universities and colleges are designing more courses targeted at those who want to teach in our schools. The demand for recognition from teachers qualified outside Ireland is ever increasing. Ireland is now part of a wider Europe and we have a responsibility to be mindful of our European Union and wider international obligations in regard to the recognition of qualifications. The Teaching Council will be the designated authority for the purpose of ensuring that these commitments are fulfilled.

The Teaching Council Bill provides us with a timely opportunity to regularise review and accreditation procedures for teachers, whether qualified in Ireland or abroad. The Bill will repeal the Registration Council (Constitution and Procedures) Rules, 1926, under which the Registration Council operated. The functions of the Registration Council will pass to the new Teaching Council which will be responsible for determining the education, training and qualifications required for the purposes of satisfying the requirements of registration. The role of the Teaching Council regarding the professional education of teachers will not end when the teacher begins to teach as it will play an important part in the probation and induction of teachers and in the professional education of teachers throughout their careers.

I know Senators are conscious of the importance of fostering and developing good North-South contacts in all areas, including education. The House will also be aware that there have been fruitful contacts between Ministers and Departments North and South in recent years and that this interaction has been formalised through the North-South Ministerial Council established within the framework of the Good Friday Agreement.

The North-South Ministerial Council has already met twice in education sector format and has established a number of joint working groups to progress co-operation on matters of mutual concern. These joint working groups will consider issues such as special needs provision, tackling disadvantage, educational exchange activity and the situation of teachers in the island as a whole. Much work has taken place on the establishment of a teaching council in Northern Ireland. Section 7 of the Teaching Council Bill specifically provides for co-operation with that council so that an all island approach can be taken where that is mutually beneficial.

We have much in common with our colleagues in Northern Ireland in the high standards of education provided to our students. I am pleased that the Bill gives statutory expression to this spirit of co-operation. There is much scope for co-operation in the areas within the remit of the Teaching Council and I know that both councils will approach this matter with the enthusiasm that has been the hallmark of previous endeavours in this field. I am aware that there has been ongoing contact between officials on both sides of the Border as proposals for both councils have developed. We look forward to continuing close contacts in the future.

The initial stage in establishing the Teaching Council will be critical from the financial point of view. Until the first council is in place, it will not be possible to levy fees and, therefore, provide the necessary finance to fund the initial phase of establishment. In the interim, the start up costs will be provided from central funds. There are a number of reasons for this including that the Teaching Council will assume responsibility for a range of functions currently being performed by my Department. In particular, the work now being done by the registration council will be transferred to the Teaching Council. The Teaching Council will provide a range of advisory services and expertise to my Department and it will provide a significant contribution towards continually monitoring the quality of education. In recognition of these services, it is appropriate that the Government, through my Department, signals its support for the work of the Teaching Council by financing its activities through this critical early period of development. Section 21 provides for this funding.

The steering committee, which was representative of all the partners in education, recommended the payment of a membership fee by all new applicants for registration. It also recommended that the fee should be waived for the first year of registration in the case of existing teachers who qualify for registration with the council. Section 23 allows the council to set and charge fees. During the course of the debate in the other House, I introduced an amendment to ensure that members of the council are indemnified against any legal action taken as a result of actions or decisions of the Teaching Council.

The high quality of the teaching profession has been a theme in my remarks. The profession has traditionally attracted personnel of a consistently high calibre and I am sure that the provisions of the Bill will go a long way towards ensuring this continues. The Teaching Council will be central to the development of the teaching profession in the future. Through the council, teaching will mature as a profession and reach a new stage in its development. The development to this point of the proposals for the Teaching Council has taken place in close co-operation with those for whom it will be most immediately relevant, teachers themselves. I look forward to continuing to work closely with teachers and the other partners in education as together we move to establish a Teaching Council.

This debate marks another significant step towards the establishment of the council. There was a useful debate in the other House and I look forward to this continuing in the House and to hearing the contributions of Senators. I assure the House that I will constructively respond to the points raised. This important Bill deserves our support and I commend it to the House.

I welcome the Minister and this debate, but it is unfortunate that there has been such a long delay in introducing the Bill. An undertaking was given that the Teaching Council would be established at the beginning of 2000. The timetable set out in the report of the steering committee indicated that it is was intended to publish the Bill in November 1998 so it is almost two and a half years overdue. There has been consultation with the education partners, including teachers, parents and managers, in preparation for the Bill and the end product is a fair representation of the issues and concerns that were raised during that process.

The purpose of the Bill is to promote teaching as a profession, to promote the professional development of teachers, to maintain and improve the quality of teaching, to provide for the establishment of standards, policies and procedures for the education and training of teachers and other matters relating to teachers and the teaching profession, to promote the registration and regulation of teachers and to enhance professional standards and competence and, for these purposes, to establish a council. The establishment of such a council is long overdue but it is welcome.

The concept of the Teaching Council is all embracing, but I hope it is not aspirational on the part of the Government. I hope the Minister and the Government are fully committed to the Bill because it took over two and a half years to introduce it. There is no specific financial commitment in the legislation towards the council and I am concerned by the Minister's comments about the levelling of fees. I ask him to elaborate on this aspect in his reply in terms of what fees will be levied and on whom and where the money will be generated. I assumed the money would come from the Central Fund and the Department of Education and Science because the council will provide a service to the Department, the teaching profession and pupils. I ask the Minister to explain the lack of financial commitment in the Bill and the reference to the levelling of fees.

The consultation process was excellent, but it will come to nought if teachers are frustrated because their remuneration and working conditions are inadequate. There are clear indica tions of that in the recent actions of the ASTI and it is imperative that it does not continue. The current situation must be resolved to the satisfaction of the teaching profession and I appeal to the Minister to bear this in mind. Each side playing semantics or trying to secure a political win is not in the best interests of the teaching profession or education in the long term. The central issue that should be considered is education in its finest sense and its impact on future generations and, in turn, the economy in terms of the type of nation Ireland becomes. This matter should not be viewed in terms of trying to secure a political win by either side. It is much more important than that and this should be kept in mind.

Proper facilities and proper remuneration for teachers are basic elements and it is important that focus is not lost in that regard. If that happened, the country will lose. Successive Ministers have spoken about our fine education system and it has been held up as a flagship in terms of the country's current prosperity. It has been claimed that if the population was not as educated, the economy would not be as successful. The availability of young educated people meant Ireland was in a position to develop its flourishing economy.

The Bill is a start in the right direction. Fine Gael believes that every child has a legal right to the best possible education and there should be an educational plan overseen by an ombudsman for children with the authority to see that the resources and facilities, to meet their educational requirements, are provided. To achieve this the educational system must be radically overhauled. We have deluded ourselves for years that we have a wonderful system in terms of world standards. It is a good system for those who are bright, articulate, who have a supportive home background and who have parents in a position to assist them. Such children are in a position to avail of this one-chance system and can be successful. However, there are thousands of other children and young people whose future is quite dim because there is no involvement, deep frustration and personal under achievement due to the lack of facilities and, at primary level, the lack of resource and remedial teachers. There have been huge advances in recent years in terms of the number of such teachers, but there are still many children who require this facility. I urge the Minister to make children who have learning difficulties a priority and to continue to put in resource teachers and remedial teachers where they are required.

A system that is starved of resources, seriously lacking in facilities and driven by a profession that is acutely disappointed, under remunerated and unable to achieve the heights of its potential is one that is not working satisfactorily. This Bill is only one element of what is required. Its range and remit are unclear in many respects and ill defined in others. If the system is to perform to the highest standards, in the interests of all pupils, it must be driven by a profession that has standards, that rewards performance. That has to be paid for. The Minister recognises that and should take account of it in assessing his Estimates for the coming year. There is deep unrest in teaching, there is annoyance and profound frustration reflected in the recent ASTI dispute and in the industrial action that was taken. It is not just about pay, it is about professional requirements and facilities to allow people to reach their capacity and achieve their professional potential.

The Bill does not state clearly what responsibilities are to be removed from the Department of Education and Science and transferred to the Teaching Council, nor does it state what impact the Teaching Council will have on teacher training. It does not define clearly what the implications will be of complaints to the council where dismissals or allegations are made. It does not allow for the appointment of principals to the council from second level schools, even though these very people are ultimately responsible for the induction, probation and monitoring of teachers into the profession at that level. I want to see a teaching profession, in all categories, that is highly motivated, driven, well resourced and financed, and able to build on its professional call to provide every child with an educational plan to reach his or her ultimate level of achievement. Currently, there are a number of children who are not so doing because of hiccups along the way but I have seen cases where resource teachers and remedial teachers have been brought in resulting in outstanding success in bringing children back into the regular stream. That is something I ask the Minister to give priority to.

As a former teacher, I have regular contact with teachers, unions and various relevant organisations. It is very hard to see great surpluses emanating from the Department of Finance, while some educational establishments are so under resourced with such poor facilities in the 21st century. It is amazing but that is how it is. The Department of Education and Science knows about it and should begin to focus on securing the necessary finance to radically overhaul these areas. A profession that is highly motivated will automatically attract people, but that will only happen if proper facilities are put in place. It is important that the Teaching Council establishes clear standards and is in a position to negotiate on behalf of teachers to secure what they require. Teachers will repay that with high performance, motivation, standards and aspirations.

Our former spokesperson on education, Deputy Enda Kenny, was strongly in favour of sabbaticals for teachers. That is very important because year by year there is increasing pressure on teachers. Everybody seems to be so knowledgeable about everything. Parents are highly concerned about the future of their children and the education they get, but equally there is a sense that more responsibility is being handed over to teachers in that children are allowed to express themselves more vociferously and frankly than traditionally which puts certain stresses and strains on teachers. Leave of absence and sabbaticals are important to allow teachers to recharge their batteries so that they can return renewed and reinvigorated. In Canada they have a system whereby every six or seven years teachers may take a sabbatical on full pay, to which they have contributed. They can take educational courses and can be credited incrementally. They can then decide if they wish to return to the profession of teaching.

Teachers should be invited to this House on an ongoing basis to find out exactly how the political system works, how legislation goes through the House, how laws are enacted and what impact they have. They could then go back to their schools in a position to teach that. Everything is interdependent and interrelated.

Many principals are appointed for the duration of their working life. Like county managers or secretaries general of Departments, these jobs are very pressurised and hugely demanding. Larger schools make major demands of the individual and the possibility of the principal's term running for seven years, perhaps renewable for three if desired, should be examined. The principal might then step aside, while maintaining their principal's allowance, staying within the profession but no longer having the same onerous responsibilities. Serious consideration should be given to such a system. Many primary and secondary teachers arrived, some time ago, at an understanding that teaching is not what they want, but career breaks and other options which are currently available are not sufficiently broad or flexible to cater to them. The Teaching Council, as distinct from the teachers' unions, should ensure that this profession can stand on any platform and attract bright, young, intelligent and articulate people who will want to give of their expertise to produce students who will be a credit to their country.

I am sure the Minister is aware that we have almost 2,000 untrained teachers in the primary system. This is totally unsatisfactory. I know of one principal who closed his school and refused to have classes taken in his school by an untrained teacher. Until he got a fully trained teacher to do substitute work he did not open the school. He felt there was a need for certain standards and he was not prepared to tolerate anything less than the highest standards in his school. There is also a need for consistency, in that you cannot have teachers jumping in and out too often. There are cases where that is happening and it has to do with the pressure and the stress factor. It is not good for the pupils and the issue must be addressed by the Teaching Council.

The fact that there are 2,000 untrained teachers in the primary schools system is also having an effect on the secondary schools system. The situation is most unsatisfactory and must be addressed. I appeal to the Minister to look at this matter very seriously. Sabbaticals, leave of absence and opportunities to do other courses can help, as can the training and appointment of more teachers. However, the basic issue should be addressed, in view of the potentially detrimental effect on the teaching profession.

In the case of certain specific second level subjects, notably physics and science, it is becoming increasingly difficult to secure teachers. Consequently, the number of schools providing a range of science subjects is decreasing. That is not a good development and it needs to be watched closely. In our present vibrant economy, the monetary attractions are far more lucrative in industry and other sectors. The Department of Education and Science has to address the fundamental issue of competing in that situation.

I agree with much of the Minister's speech. He referred to the complaints procedure and the committees which the Teaching Council could establish to assist and advise the council or to perform any function of the council. He particularly mentioned the investigating committee and the disciplinary committee and how they would operate, including adjudicating on complaints where it is alleged that teachers have failed to meet acceptable standards of practice. My experience in Clare County Council's review of its county development plan indicates that clear definition is very important when functions are being handed over to another body. It is essential to provide a clear definition of what constitutes acceptable standards of practice so that the committees will have specific guidelines within which to operate. Otherwise, the term could be open to varying subjective interpretations. I urge the Minister to consider that matter carefully.

I welcome the Minister's confirmation that the rights of all concerned will be protected and that due process will be observed. The new Teaching Council should not bring any additional pressures on teachers but should be a supportive influence. Teachers are already under great pressure. Parents are becoming increasingly more demanding and have higher expectations for their children. A balanced approach is needed in the interaction between parents' councils, teachers and children.

The Minister also referred to Ireland's international obligations as a member of the European Union, including access for qualified teachers from other EU countries. That is a commendable development, provided, of course, such teachers comply with our standards. The Ceard Teastas Gaeilge has always, in my view, been a discriminatory factor in the vocational education sector and should be abolished. It does nothing to enhance the Irish language. Indeed, it can be seen as a negative, obstructive and exclusive feature.

In relation to funding, the Minister said that, until the first council is in place, it will not be possible to levy fees and therefore the necessary finance is being provided to fund the initial phase of establishment. I ask the Minister to elaborate on the provision for levying fees and the question of who is to pay. I thought the Minister would be so pleased with the establishment of this council that he would also provide adequate funding for its operation.

Ar an gcéad dul síos, ba mhaith liom fíor caoin fáilte a chur roimh an Aire go dtí an tSeanad agus fáilte do chur roimh an mBille seo. I also thank Senator Ormonde for giving me her allocated time this afternoon, which facilitates me in other commitments.

I greatly welcome this Bill. It has been a long time in gestation, having been mooted in 1991. It is almost three years since a steering committee was set up. Clearly, nothing is being rushed upon us. However, there is a fortuitous aspect to the timing of this Bill to enable the Teaching Council to be established. I have no desire to revisit the issue of the ASTI's industrial action, except to put a few comments on record. In common with other Senators, I recognised that teachers had a legitimate right to an increase in salary. Such an increase was well earned, well deserved and, indeed, overdue.

While I had absolutely no doubts in that regard, I had the most profound concerns about the manner in which that claim was pursued, as a result of which we are left with a very sour after-taste. It is not in the best interest of children, teachers or parents that such sourness would be allowed to fester. Nor is it in the best interest of education, or of the community, that the respect in which teachers have been traditionally held would be eroded on any long-term basis. For that reason, among others, I am very pleased that the Teaching Council is now in the process of being established. It will give a new forum and a new focus to all engaged in education. Perhaps, after all, the timing is both ripe and right.

This Bill will support teachers and parents. It will garner once again the type of confidence which our educational system always enjoyed. Teachers will now have an independent, statutory Teaching Council which will put them on a par, as a professional body, with doctors, who have access to a medical council; nurses, who have access to their professional body, and other professions who already enjoy a similar facility. That should give great grounds for optimism to teachers and to all of us who value education and its practitioners.

Part of the remit of the council will be to protect and promote the status of teachers in society, to enhance the status of the teaching profession and to promote the professional development of teachers. All that is timely and most welcome. Teachers will now be in a position to regulate their own affairs and to take responsibility for the development and maintenance of standards and qualities in education. The council will provide a long overdue forum for addressing a number of grievances, defects and deficiencies which have become apparent in recent years.

The fact that the Bill is good for teachers is a key reason for welcoming it. It is also very good for parents. They did not have a forum to raise or pursue an issue. If they had a grievance, they did not have a forum through which to advance that grievance in an open and transparent way. That mechanism will be in place in the context of the teaching council. The Bill is, therefore, encouragement to parents to engage more constructively in the education of children and the enhancement of education in Ireland.

Part of the irritation felt by some students and parents stems from the fact that there are bad teachers in the system. We had better be honest and admit that openly. To seek to deny it is about as valid as seeking to deny that smuggling does not bedevil the food and agriculture industries. There are bad teachers and, prior to this, it was very difficult and almost impossible to find a mechanism whereby the issue of such teachers could be addressed. Simply put, the mechanism did not exist. There is a mechanism in the context of the Bill which will be fair and which will act without prejudice to teachers, pupils, students, parents, the community or the Government, which is the paymaster. The system is in place in the context of the Bill. I welcome the establishment of the investigating committee and disciplinary committee.

Having read in detail sections 42, 43 and 44, the balance is right and due process will always be present to protect the teacher and a system will exist to protect pupils. The damage done to young people and their prospects by bad teachers is very difficult to quantify. I do not relish having to say this because I was a teacher and a member of the ASTI for almost 25 years. In fairness to everyone and to the priorities we must have within the system of education, there is a grave need to put this system in place to enable us, without prejudice to either party, to deal with this issue. That will happen and I welcome a system which will enable it to happen. For that reason also I support the Bill.

There are two other matters I wish to mention. There are a number of issues in respect of education which we sought to have debated in the House in recent months but we thought it was better judgment to seek to delay any discussion on education until certain events were sorted out. One of the issues on which I requested a debate was the Cromien report on the Department of Education and Science. We are now putting in place a system which will enhance the professional development of teachers and their status as persons in the community. To enable us make a reality of that, we need to introduce other changes without delay parallel with the introduction of this teaching council.

I especially want debated in the House the recommendations of the Cromien report on the Department. It is frustrating for teachers and principals who are innovative and creative thinkers, who see the need for change and who want to progress it to find themselves in their efforts to do so hitting a stone wall. As someone said to me recently, taking from a poem by Brendan Kennelly, it is like water encountering a rock. If there are rocks within An Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaíochta, they will have to be removed. If we are to underpin a modern and progressive system of education in Ireland which responds speedily to all changes which need to be introduced, we must have a Department of Education and Science which is responsive, efficient and quick to embrace change where it is proved to be constructive.

When Easter has passed and the Minister has an opportunity, perhaps he will return to the House to enable us debate the report in a calm and rational way and to ensure any legitimate changes advocated in the context of the report are enacted sooner rather than later. There is much in education which is static and does not welcome change because it is afraid of it. There are many practitioners in education who want to bring about change and we must seek to ensure that any roadblocks in their way are removed.

The issue of teacher education merits a full debate but I will touch on it briefly here. Teacher education and pre-service and in-service professional development are central to the objectives of the Bill. I listened to someone talking recently about the world of tomorrow, and teachers are nothing if they do not prepare young people to have control over their lives in the world of tomorrow. This person referred specifically to the world of work. This very advanced thinker told his audience that 20% of the jobs which will be on offer 20 years from now have not yet been invented. How do we educate people to make their way purposefully in that type of rapidly changing world and how can the system of education and teachers anticipate its demands? It raises the question of how we educate the next generation.

We know for certain that, as well as passing on a body of knowledge – and it is the obligation of every professional to pass on a body of knowledge and a value system – we must seek to put in place a generation of young people who are learners, who can learn new skills and who are open to being and have the capacity to be lifelong learners. If they are to embrace the challenges of the world of tomorrow, they must not be people whose education finishes at the door of the school or the university. They must be people who have the capacity to be lifelong learners. When brain power is the intellectual capital of the world of the 21st century, we must instil into all teaching practices the skills of learning, critical evaluation and examining situations critically as they arise. People tell me they want young people who can work in a team, make decisions, think critically on the implications of an issue and, having done that, make decisions. This places a huge burden on teachers to prepare for this type of world. How can they prepare for it if it is not central to their teacher education?

We must examine teacher education to see how innovative and progressive it is and how aware are those who offer education to teachers of all these factors in a rapidly changing and already vastly changed world. There are those who say – they may be right – that our system of teacher education has not kept pace with all the changes and that teachers who should be the agents of constructive change very often are not. That should be debated as a stand-alone issue at another time. However, we have to take it on board in the context of the Teaching Council because if we are to develop this kind of professionalism, central to that must be a system of pre-career and in-service training for teachers. New insights are emerging all the time as to how learning happens. We have insights now that were not available to me when, many moons ago, I undertook to do teacher education and teacher training, and these insights have to be incorporated into teacher education and training.

The teachers of tomorrow will have to deal with the challenges that exist in society. Children come into the classroom who are the victims of drugs, drink and domestic violence. They are victims of the turmoil in society. Teachers have to deal with them and they need to be well prepared and to have all the expertise they possibly can at their fingertips to enable them to deal effectively and constructively with those children because they have the same right to a standard of education as any other child. In many cases they have demands above and beyond other children given that demands that are not met in the home often have to be compensated for by teachers. That requires a particularly good investment in teacher education.

I listened recently to somebody talking about education in tomorrow's world. He made a strong case for allocating about 10% of the budget for primary education, where the foundations are laid, to the professional development of teachers and he said that this should be an ongoing feature of the system. He saw this as a basis for changing all education. I agree with that. We have made extremely poor provision here for in-service education of teachers. If there is a change in the curriculum, teachers can avail of in-service days, but in-service training ought to be an ongoing in-built feature of education.

The composition of the council is fair. However, since the steering committee was set up, school principals have organised themselves in a much more systematic way than they did in the past. Principals are a force for school management. We are dependent on them to ensure that certain standards are put in place and maintained and monitored within schools. We are dependent on them to drive the constructive changes that we need in education today and encourage teachers to constantly update and upgrade their skills. We are dependent on them to ensure that all the objectives of this Teaching Council Bill are met. I ask the Minister to have another look at the possibility of including a representative of the principals on this 37-member council.

Let me tell one story before I finish. A friend of mine in Cork has a daughter who teaches French in a second level school in a city, not Cork. She got her class and started to teach them. They were doing the pass course. After a few months she realised that a number of them had the ability and the capacity to take the honours course. She decided she would offer them the honours course and spoke to the principal about it. The principal's response was that they had never done the honours course in the school, that nobody had ever been interested in taking honours French and that it would be of no benefit to them later. If that is the attitude of even one principal, it is detrimental to what the Minister and all of us here want the system of education to deliver to all students, irrespective of where they live. If there was no other reason, this is reason enough for engaging principals on this council because they are very well positioned to drive change and to be the agents of change. I ask the Minister to consider that.

I will not take the 20 minutes allocated to me because I speak as a non-professional in this area. Having listened to two or three professionals, I know this will not be easy. However, I have some experience in education, apart from being a parent of five children, as a result of having been asked to act as chairman of the steering committee of the leaving certificate applied under the auspices of the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment. I learned a great deal about education in my four or five years in that capacity. I learned particularly about the gaps that occur in education, about the huge regard in which individuals involved in education are held and about what they were able to achieve at various levels.

To a certain extent I speak without authority. Others were able to speak with far more authority, being closer to the issue. However, I speak with some experience of what the leaving certificate applied aimed to achieve and what it actually achieved. The most important thing I learned is that education can be measured in different ways. The traditional leaving certificate measures in a very limited way, that is, it measures one's ability on the basis of a three-hour test after two years of training. It is usually a written test only and there is a certain amount of oral examination in languages. I realised that it did not necessarily identify skills, talents, abilities and, even less, the seven different intelligences that Howard Gardner talks of or the nine different intelligences that Charles Handy speaks of. These include intelligences such as the ability to communicate in spoken rather than in written terms. The identification of that by Ministers and by the Department of Education and Science, and their ability to do something about it, excited me in prospect and I know it will go from success to success in the years ahead.

I welcome the Bill. It is a significant step forward in recognising the deepening professionalism in teaching. I take this opportunity to call for a fundamental revamping of our whole system of education. The time has come for all the partners in education to sit down together and take a long hard look at the systems and structures we use and have used for many years to run education here. Our existing way of running education has outlived its usefulness. It is becoming more dysfunctional with each year that passes. We have to find a way of getting around that. When the current disputes on teachers' pay have been resolved, as they eventually will be, the tendency will be for everybody concerned with education to heave a sigh of relief and to cod themselves into thinking that they have put things right. However, they will be wrong in thinking that way because only the symptoms will have been addressed and the disease itself will have been left untouched.

I first became aware that there was something radically wrong with the system of education when I became involved in the leaving certificate applied during the five years from 1993 to 1998. During that time I got a ringside view of how our system worked. While I admired many of the people involved, I was appalled at how the system worked. It was a system that, from top to bottom, was chronically starved of resources. The educational infrastructure was gravely damaged by the cutbacks of the 1980s. I am talking about the period from 1993 to 1998. The brunt of those cutbacks in the 1980s fell on the infrastructure of the educational system because the strength of the teachers' unions managed to preserve the salary element of spending.

Second, I saw a system that was reeling under the impact of successive waves of unplanned and under-resourced change that had occurred in those years. The Department of Education and Science seemed to be prolific when it came to dreaming up changes but the task of implementing the changes was left to schools. There seemed to be a serious lack of understanding between the Department and schools about the practical implementation of changes the Department had suggested.

Third, I saw a system that suffered from a hostile and adversarial regime of industrial relations. From my years in business I have learned that it takes two sides to create an industrial dispute. A sector with bad industrial relations is usually one with a long history of failed relationships. Each new dispute is a raking over of old coals which have been kept alive over the years by successive confrontations. That occurs in industry, business and education.

Fourth, I saw no recognition anywhere in the education system of a need for radical change. Part of this inertia was born out of a conviction that we have one of the best education systems in the world. We hear this mantra all the time but believing it leads one to think that all that is needed is to tinker around the edges of the old system instead of questioning whether the methodology is correct in the first place. We have been tinkering around the edges a great deal and the result is an education system that is slowly being run into the ground.

By way of example, I will take four straws in the wind. First, we have a serious literacy problem which until recently we refused to believe existed. Second, we have a totally unacceptable level of completion in secondary education. We aim at a 90% completion rate for the leaving certificate, yet we end up with only 80% or 81%. While our aim is that only one in ten students will never complete second level schooling, all we are achieving is that two in ten never complete it. Third, we have a third level system which is flagrantly discriminatory in the social and economic backgrounds of its student intake. We see that happening repeatedly, yet we are not getting to grips with it. Fourth, at all levels we have curricula and teaching methods which, despite the many changes in recent years – I have touched on some of them already – are still not geared to today's realities. They seem to be falling further behind as each year passes.

I could cite further examples. During the current ASTI dispute we heard much about how teachers have lost status in the eyes of the community over the past 20 years, and I agree, but that loss of status is part of a wider loss for the educational system as a whole. Education has never been so important, yet in spite of that, its status has not reached or maintained the level at which it should be. Both at national level in terms of its impact on our economic development, which we recognise, and at an individual, personal level in terms of being the way for people to better themselves and realise their ambitions, education has not maintained that status. Never have we needed a first class educational system more than we do now because we have to grasp the opportunities that are there.

There is a mismatch between that national requirement and expectation on the one hand and the system we have to fulfil that need and deliver that expectation on the other hand. We have not yet found the solution to that mismatch. Over the past few years I have noticed a growth in the recognition by those who run the country of the key place that education has played in our economic success and the role it will play in helping us to maintain that success. I have not noticed, however, a corresponding awareness of the need for change in that area. Nor have I noticed concern that the system that got us where we are today is no longer capable of performing that role in future.

The only ray of light I have seen in recent times was the internal report commissioned by the Department of Education and Science, which was leaked to the newspapers. That was the first hint of awareness that something was chronically wrong with the way we run the education system. That report could have been a flag for the various partners in education to rally round in demanding change. Unfortunately, however, it appears to have become buried in the heat of more immediate battles that have occurred in recent weeks. When those battles are over and forgotten, the systematic problems will continue to exist unless we do something about them. If we fail to address those problems promptly and fail to recognise the need to rebuild our education system from the ground upwards, we will surely be sowing the seeds of future disaster. That is the message we need to listen to and do something about. The wave we are riding on now depends crucially on having the right education system. The evidence points to serious shortcomings in the current system.

Last year I met a Japanese businessman whom I admired a great deal. I asked him how he had achieved such success and after thinking it over for a while, he replied: "Whether you believe you can, or whether you believe you can't, you're right." It is a lovely quote. He went on to say: "If you go into a football game or a golf match and say ‘We haven't a chance against that lot', you won't succeed, but if you go in there determined to succeed, determined that you can actually win, you can succeed."

I welcome the Bill not just for what it sets out to do, but also because it gives us the opportunity to make those changes that are challenging us in the education system at the moment. It is up to us to make sure we accept this opportunity to grapple with those changes and achieve the success that the country deserves.

Tá fáilte roimh an mBille seo atá os cómhair an tSeanaid inniú. I congratulate the Minister on introducing this legislation. As others have stated, it has arisen as a result of a process of consultation and deliberation which began two or three years ago. The idea of a teaching council first came about as a result of an OECD report, which reviewed Irish education, and the 1992 Green Paper on Education. The partners in education, including teachers, parents and students, have for many years been advocating the establishment of a teaching council. The council will have a major role in recognising the contribution of teachers as professionals who possess the knowledge and expertise, not only to shape the future of their profession but also to contribute effectively to the future direction of education policy. The council will be on a par with the Medical Council which has been very successful, as well as with a similar council for the nursing profession.

The Bill is being introduced at a time of deep unrest within the teaching profession regarding the pay and conditions of work. As I have said many times in this House, I support the teachers in their claim for an increase in salary and a review of their conditions. Hopefully the result of the ballot will be favourable to allow that process to start immediately so that teachers will be put on a par with equivalents in the public service and in the private sector.

The council will also help professionally trained people achieve their full professional potential. It is important that teachers, pupils, parents and the country as a whole will reflect their views through the Teaching Council. That will enhance the status and morale of teachers and will give a quality of education which we have questioned heretofore. It will ensure high standards of teachers, professional qualifications and competence.

A professional council charged with maintaining and delivering standards is a natural part of the maturing of any profession. It will enable them to regulate their own affairs and empower them with greater responsibility for the standards and quality of education. The council will be an independent statutory agency. It will be the voice of teachers on educational matters and it will perform the functions through which teachers can achieve a large degree of self-autonomy and self-regulation.

This council will have the responsibility to draw up a professional code of conduct, in other words, a statement of professionalism agreed by all teachers. It will also give teachers a sense of their own identity and a place in society. The new concept of enhancing and promoting the profession of teaching, raising public awareness of the way teachers work and the environment in which they work, the changing and increasingly complex nature of society, community and school settings and the changing pattern of life will mean that the council will have to recognise that the role of teachers will have to adapt to meet those changes. If they are to continue to provide a first class education for their students, teachers must also recognise and acknowledge that the teacher's authority in the classroom today has been undermined and that the respect for the status of the teacher has declined. The Teaching Council will have to give special attention to this problem to ensure that the high standards and quality of service will be maintained and that quality remains the hallmark of the teaching profession.

The Minister also referred to the function regarding promoting teaching as a profession and compiling a register of teachers in relation to their background of educational qualifications, the way the register will be established, their fitness to teach, the probation period and the reviewing and accrediting of teacher training programmes.

I foresee difficulties in assessing and accrediting teacher training programmes. How will that work in practice? What procedures will take place to do that? Take the example of a young graduate with a BA, science or commerce degree and a higher diploma in education. It is difficult to assess teacher training in this area for second level teaching. The only means of assessment is through the higher diploma and I question whether that is an adequate way to proceed. With changes in society new programmes have been introduced and different forms of learning are taking place but there will be discipline problems. How can a young teacher with no experience walk into a classroom with discipline problems? How will he or she handle classroom situations? Will the Teaching Council examine that aspect? It is sometimes said that a good teacher can fail before they start. These questions are pertinent to that aspect of teacher training.

I welcome the fact that recognition will be given to qualifications of teachers trained outside Ireland. We all know of cases where teachers from another jurisdiction had to sit qualifying examinations and the process of written and oral Irish examinations in order to teach. In the past that would have taken many years to process. The establishment of the council will ensure that the teachers of Ireland, North and South, will be more in touch now and that there will be better co-operation as a result of the work of the joint working groups and the Ministerial Council since the Good Friday Agreement.

I congratulate the Minister on his sensitivity in the selection of membership. The fact that the council will have 37 members, mainly represented by teachers, will create confidence in the teaching profession as a whole and will play a key role in the development of the profession.

The Minister said that the council will advise him on the standards for entry into programmes of teacher training and teacher supply. That will be a very onerous task. How will that procedure work in practice? Will it affect the points system at entry to university? I understand the points system is dictated by supply and demand. It is difficult to know if a teacher will work well at second level before they are actually employed in the system; I made that point earlier. That might be easier in the teacher training colleges at primary level. While I welcome the teacher involvement in assessment of courses and having an input into policy, I am a little apprehensive about how it will work.

Over the years the teaching profession has served the State and the people well. We had and have outstanding teachers who cared and continue to care for their pupils beyond the call of duty. Pupils have received an education that has helped them to deal with life experiences but some teachers have become frustrated with the system and the way school management works. They are frustrated by the lack of promotional opportunities within the school and the way posts are allocated. As we all know, there are personality clashes between principals and members of the staff for no reason other than they have a different stand on issues and, very often, management is not good at handling those situations.

We all know of good teachers who, for whatever reason, have spent their whole lives teaching but who would not merit a post of responsibility. That is very demoralising. Some teachers suffer from burn-out, which is happening more frequently because of a breakdown of discipline in our schools. The lack of special needs teachers is making the teachers' work more demanding. The teacher today is not only an educator but a social worker, counsellor, parent, administrator, fund raiser and disciplinarian. I am speaking from experience of working within the system.

Under the functions outlined in section 7 of the Bill, there is a role for the Teaching Council to examine the fitness of a teacher to operate within the school context, taking into account that teachers are employed as teachers, not as administrators, social workers, fund-raisers or those who deal with the community at large. Otherwise, we have to redefine the role of teachers employed by the Department of Education and how their roles have changed in conjunction with changes in society.

One must look closely at why it is becoming more difficult for a teacher to carry out his or her duties. While it may be said that this has to do with the management structure within the school, this is not always the case, depending on the personalities of the senior administrative staff. Will the council look at the role of principals and their lengths of service, which can now be reviewed every seven years? Not only should we look at how we can enhance the profession of teachers, but at how demanding their jobs have become and acknowledge that good teachers can be destroyed by the kinds of administrations in their schools.

There should also be more opportunities for teachers to take career breaks. Young people starting out on a career today are not expected to stay in the same school and staff-room for the rest of their lives. All the research on career changes and patterns indicates that one's professional style changes every seven years, whether in teaching, medicine or law. With time, changes inevitably occur. I say to the Teaching Council that opportunities will come, given that the majority of its members are teachers, relating to the development of the profession in such a way that young people who want to remain in it can do so by moving out into other areas of education, not necessarily moving up the ranks in their own schools. I would love to see this developing as many teachers leave the profession because they cannot cope in their particular school because of personality clashes or they have reached their peaks in the particular kinds of work they are doing.

From the point of view of the Teaching Council, an opportunity exists to address the problem of fitness to teach. This cannot be assessed until one actually teaches. A register of qualifications and strengths is not sufficient because a young graduate has no teaching experience. How can it be ascertained whether a graduate will be a good teacher? For example, one could have a fantastic science teacher who would be deplorable at an interview because their subject matter does not require linguistic expertise and eloquence. A graduate with a BA in English would fare much better because he would be better at putting his thoughts together and articulating his point of view. Our approach to assessing what makes a good teacher is not necessarily the best way forward, and the Teaching Council should examine this.

The Minister has spoken of setting up committees. Section 24 of the Bill provides that the council "may" establish committees to assist in its work. Then it says that it "will" establish committees. I am confused by the terms "may" and "will". I can understand the need for the executive committee, which is necessary to deal with the day-to-day activities of the council. The other two committees are the discipline committee and the investigative committee, but I have grave concerns about the latter. While I welcome the decision that the majority of its members will be teachers, this will require very sensitive handling in terms of assessing complaints, knowing that only the Lord himself could cope with some of the classroom situations with which teachers are confronted.

Teachers will be the key people in handling complaints – I do not know how this will work. We will have to be broad-minded in our thinking on social and familial changes and the role of parents in assessing results, discipline and the function of the teacher. The Minister will realise that this is a huge task. I am being a devil's advocate. The Teacher's Council is a wonderful idea, but I am raising some issues on which the Minister, in his reply, will have to reassure me.

Too often, teachers are blamed for every social ill that arises because there is a lack of understanding of the stresses that teachers endure in carrying out their duties. Although this may be a school management problem concerning a failure to devise a code of discipline, an investigative committee needs to have expertise in handling such a sensitive area. The members need to be clear on procedures and set them out in advance.

What role will the union have when an investigation takes place? I see in the explanatory memorandum that a distinction has been drawn between the role of the unions and the role of the council. However, there should be an overlap here when handling complaints. The work of the two bodies should complement each other – and this is great in theory – but I have seen how the unions get involved when complaints are lodged and this often causes conflict. From my being in the teaching profession and dealing with staff- room problems, I know the council will work well in theory, but how it will work on the ground is a different matter.

I like the idea of compiling a register of teachers and the manner in which this will take place. Teachers will be delighted with this aspect of the council, for which I thank the Minister. It will greatly enhance the role of teachers and improve their status and morale. I would be delighted if the Teaching Council could make teachers leaders in the community, as they once were.

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and thank him and the Minister, Deputy Woods, for bringing forward this important and relevant legislation.

I welcome the Teaching Council Bill, 2000, which will address, in a practical way, a number of key issues vis-à-vis the work in which teachers engage. As the Minister indicated, the Bill was introduced following widespread consultation with the partners in education – teachers, parents and managers. A crucial element of the legislation is the fact that the council will be a completely independent statutory agency and its key focus will be to oversee teacher education programmes and ensure public satisfaction with the level and quality of the educational services provided.

In recent months there has been a great deal of public debate on serious educational issues which arose as a result of the ASTI's industrial action. Thankfully, the Bill draws our attention back to an examination of first principles and asks what are the best teacher qualifications, what are the best ongoing evaluation processes for teachers and how the obligations of teachers can be integrated with the needs of the public. The proposed Teaching Council will give a significant degree of professional independence and self-regulation to teachers. At a time when they are probably at their lowest ebb in terms of morale, the council will provide teachers with a much needed boost.

We live in a world that is changing rapidly. The expectations of parents and students and the demands they are placing on teachers are increasingly complex in nature. Consequently, the demands teachers place on themselves to meet the higher expectations of parents and students are leading to the creation of tension between the two groups. I hope the council will deal with the tensions that exist. I have no doubt it will do so because it will bring together those who will be in a position to identify people's needs and, perhaps, reach agreement on the best way to proceed.

A vital aspect of the Bill is that it will not impinge on the normal negotiating structures of the teacher trade unions in terms of the way they deal with conditions of employment, salaries, the day to day operation of schools etc. The Teaching Council, which will be broad-based but at the same time focused in outlook, will, I hope, concentrate on the evaluation, integration and con stant upgrading and updating of professional qualifications within the various teaching professions.

Previous speakers indicated their perceptions of what will be the functions of the Teaching Council. In my opinion the review and accreditation of programmes for teacher education and training, the arrangements for registration and induction, the process of evaluation of teachers on probation and a transparent system to equate teacher qualifications with those in other jurisdictions are probably the key elements of the Bill.

I hope the council, when established, will move quickly to address the issue of teacher qualifications. It is long past time that a reasonable standard format for the education and training of teachers working at all levels of the education system should have been introduced. It is not appropriate that remarkably different practices continue to obtain in respect of the education and practical training of primary and secondary school teachers. The demands of a generation of students raised in a multimedia age are different from the demands of a generation who listened to the radio for entertainment and attended the cinema once a week.

There is now a demand for an enormous variety in the content of educational programmes and for the imparting of a broad range of interpersonal skills by teachers in both the technical and technological areas. I hope the Teaching Council will delineate a standard form of core teaching for teachers at all levels of the education system which will incorporate different modules for teachers who work in particular areas and who have specific needs. Such an arrangement would be of major benefit in conferring on all teachers the necessary core knowledge they require in ensuring that they have ample practical experience in the classroom before they are confirmed as fully approved professionals.

The Teaching Council will have its work cut out, particularly if it is to properly review and accredit the wide range of programmes required to meet modern teachers' educational and training requirements. It is important that best practices from other jurisdictions are evaluated and, if feasible, taken on board to enhance the modern Irish teacher's classroom armoury. The council will have a major role to play in ensuring that best practice is observed in terms of class content, delivery and follow-up action.

The establishment of the Teaching Council will give Ireland a great opportunity to assess, integrate and experiment with new content and new teaching materials and approaches to allow teachers to impart their key message, which forms the core of any good education system. It will be an immense power for good in the education system in the 21st century. I hope it will take its place beside the introduction of free second level education and the establishment of the colleges of technology as one of the most important developments in education.

I commend the Minister on the wide remit given to the council. I look forward to its establishment and to its doing great work in helping supply a new and better education service for a new and modern nation.

I thank Senators for their contributions. It is widely appreciated that this is an important Bill and that the Teaching Council will play a valuable role in terms of emphasising the professionalism of the teaching profession. In my opinion the council will come to be seen as being at the forefront of developments in teaching.

Yesterday I attended an OECD meeting of Ministers from 41 nations at which was discussed education, the profession of teaching, the changes that are taking place and the challenges to be faced. It is extraordinary that many of the difficulties we are experiencing here are also being experienced in other countries, precisely because things are changing. Senators Quinn and Quill stated that changes are occurring at a rapid rate and will continue to do so. However, the figure to which Senator Quill referred, namely, that 20% of the jobs that will be on offer 20 years from now have not yet been invented, is an underestimate. The pace of change is so rapid that the figure will be well above 20%. However, Senator Quill also pointed out that we must prepare people involved in education to meet the changes to which I refer. Some of us will not be involved in bringing about those changes and we will be obliged to watch from the sidelines as the younger generation strives to deal with their effects. It is clear that students graduating from our colleges – in saying this, I accept there are a number of problems with which we must deal – compare very favourably, in terms of their performance, with their counterparts in other countries, particularly those in the developed world.

I wish to refer to the comments made by Senator Taylor-Quinn, a former teacher. I was also a teacher for a relatively short period before becoming involved in research, but I eventually fell into bad company and became a politician.

Some of the company the Minister kept was bad, but not all of it.

The Senator welcomed the Bill and was positive about it, as was her colleague, Deputy Creed, in the other House. She was concerned about the fees. The council will set the fees. It will not be difficult, except in the early stages.

To whom will the fees be charged?

The fees will be charged to the council. The normal procedure is to register. It is a professional body.

The Minister means the teachers.

The teachers will register with the council and there will be a registration fee which will cover the relatively small costs. Given that there are 45,000 teachers, it will not take long to make up a few pounds.

There is great voting strength in that number which could be multiplied by five or six.

The difficulties could arise in the early stages and my Department will cover that.

Senator Taylor-Quinn mentioned teachers' frustration not only about money but also about their position in society. That is changing. This Bill will help in that regard because it will emphasise and continue to promote the status of teachers and their professional position.

The Senator also mentioned in-service training. There has been a substantial increase in in-service training and in the uptake among teachers, which is greater than people realise. We are working to complete 26 education centres which will be built and paid for by my Department but run by the teachers. They are deeply involved in and enthusiastic about this development. They will choose what courses should be run in them. I have opened a number of them throughout the country and it has been an experience. That is where one sees their professionalism and their views on training and their future prospects. They have plenty of innovative ideas and they are looking for ways to express them.

Senator Taylor-Quinn referred to Canada and sabbaticals. She started to say that teachers should contribute towards that – she is right – but then she changed her mind fairly quickly when she realised it would be better not to elaborate on it.

The Minister is sharp.

I was talking to the Canadian Minister yesterday at the OECD conference who told me this is a system in Canada. Teachers contribute approximately 20% of the cost. It is an interesting and responsible way of doing it. That will be a matter for discussion with the teaching council in terms of future development.

The Senator also mentioned the number of untrained teachers who are substitutes in the system. A parliamentary question on that subject was tabled recently. Many of these substitutes are not untrained but they were teachers before the new degrees were introduced. They are generally older teachers but many of them were good teachers. A breakdown of the numbers was given in the parliamentary question but I do not have that information with me. The question of full recognition for teachers has gone through different phases and developments and we have been expanding that recognition. I know a parliamentary question was tabled recently about the numbers and there were categories within those numbers. A few of those categories referred to teachers who were good teachers in their own right. While they might have had a degree, they did not have the proper qualifications. We are doing conversion courses but they take approximately 18 months and some people may not be able to avail of the opportunity. We will reconsider that in the context of this legislation because it is an important issue.

The Senator referred to a seven year contract for principals. I do not know how well that proposal would be received. We have a difficulty at primary level in that more than 50% of schools are two teacher schools.

I might have mentioned the larger schools and the extra pressure.

That could be considered in relation to the larger schools in the future. I began to wonder if Senator Taylor-Quinn was talking to some of the Ministers at the OECD conference, particularly when she mentioned the vibrant economy and the well paid jobs in comparison to teachers who often find the outside world more financially attractive. That is one of the issues we are now trying to face. The PPF recognised that for the first time. Benchmarking might not have been the happiest title but it was an important development because it recognised that elements in the private sector were moving ahead quickly, particularly in terms of jobs for graduates.

Benchmarking was classified as unprofessional.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

The Senator's comments might be more appropriate to Committee Stage.

I will also take the Leas-Chathaoirleach's advice. While Senator Ormonde welcomed the Bill, she also spoke about the need to acknowledge the difficult role of teachers and to address issues in teacher training. We are awaiting the reports of two expert groups which are considering any necessary changes to teacher training in the context of new teaching methods, new curricula and a changed society. These reports will enable us to redesign pre-service training to ensure that all new teachers will receive a comprehensive and high quality period of preparation. The Bill now provides that the council will undertake the role of teacher training review into the future.

Senator Ormonde was concerned about the role of the council in relation to complaints procedures. The Bill gives the council responsibility to examine and investigate breaches of discipline by teachers. This will be carried out by the investigation and disciplinary committees with recourse to the High Court, as I mentioned in my speech. I reassure the Senator that in any such process the teachers will be fully entitled to call on their own trade unions to represent them during that process if they wish to do that. These would be the exceptional cases.

Senator Quill, who reminded us that she was a teacher for 25 years, felt teachers had a legitimate right to an increase. She also expressed concern about the methods used. We have methods and systems for dealing with such issues. The Labour Court has clearly indicated what is possible and has said what Senator Quill, other Senators and I have said. I want teachers to be appropriately and well paid for the job they do, which is important. I hope they use the existing mechanisms at this stage.

Senator Quill called for a debate on the Cromien report after Easter. I would be happy to have such a debate. I asked Mr. Cromien to carry out the investigation and he has done a good job. We will follow through on that. The point made on teacher education was 20% of jobs in 20 years.

Senator Quinn is concerned at the rapid pace of change but he does not fully appreciate the extent of the differentiation taking place within the teaching body. There many different kinds of courses. There is a separate new national qualifications authority to deal with the different courses and ensure that standards are maintained. That is the right way to proceed. It is coming because there are so many different kinds of courses being introduced. Teachers can only handle a certain amount of change at a time no matter how it is introduced because they are doing a good job where they are. We cannot throw that out because of change. We have got to build on that, train people and accommodate change. There is a lot of change coming and I would like things to move faster. We hope that this professional body will indicate ways ahead and give teachers an opportunity to participate in that. We are moving to a better situation.

The Senator also mentioned disadvantage and the problems of people getting to third level. We are working on those. Probably for the first time we are putting a lot of money into those problems, but they will not be solved overnight. They are deep problems that often go back to childhood. He indicated that himself in talking about the problem of literacy. We are starting at nine months old in the most recent programme. It is a big problem that we are giving attention to. In simple terms, we have had 10% of children leaving primary school from the 1970s to today with learning difficulties. We are breaking that down into its parts and putting investment into it. Disability also needs more attention.

Senator Kett emphasised the importance of professional standards, best practice and new teaching approaches. That is all part of the Teaching Council's work.

The Senators understand what we are trying to do. They realise the importance of the council. I thank them for that and the comments made here, as well as for taking the Bill this afternoon. I am anxious to get this body up and running. Several people said that this has been in train since 1991. That is so, but let us get on and do it now. I am like that – I do not sit around, I do something. I thank the Senators for their co-operation.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 10 April 2001.

An Leas-Cathaoirleach

When is it proposed to sit again?

At 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 10 April 2001.

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