I propose that apart from the Minister speakers be limited to 10 minutes. Is that agreed? Agreed.
Rural and Western Development: Statements.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghlacadh leis na Seanadóirí as ucht cuireadh a thabhairt dom teacht isteach sa Teach inniu agus labhairt maidir le cúrsaí forbartha tuaithe. Creidim gur ábhar fíor thábhachtach é seo agus is ábhar é nach mbaineann amháin le na ceanntrachaí tuaithe ach a mbaineann freisin leis na ceanntrachaí cathrach.
There is no question but that stabilisation of population will become a very important issue in Ireland, North and South. As recent reports have shown, and yesterday's newspapers highlighted this, a large number of our cities, particularly Dublin, are bursting at the seams and cannot cope in terms of social, transport and other physical infrastructure with their present population, not to mind the increases forecasted. Gridlock is the order of the day. On the other hand, a lot or our rural communities face the opposite problem. They have the basic social infrastructure like schools, shops and other services but lack the population to maintain viability. In such a scenario it would seem reasonable that we should redouble our efforts to ensure that our young people are not forced to migrate in ever increasing numbers to the city. This is one of our major tasks for the future and one to which I am paying particular attention as Minister with responsibility for rural development.
I would like it to be seen that rural development is not something we are pushing at the expense of cities but as a policy that in the long term will lead to more sustainable and rational development and enable the provision of infrastructure in our urban areas to catch up with population growth. As somebody who has worked for 25 years in rural development I can see that the challenges have changed tremendously since I started in 1974. The biggest challenge at the moment is not just the creation of jobs but the creation of jobs suitable for third level graduates. One of the great things about rural Ireland is the huge number of our young people who are getting third level education. I am delighted with that.
I must recognise, however, that third level education has become the single greatest reason for migration from the rural areas. If we want to stop that we will have to meet the challenge of providing graduates with suitable employment in rural areas. This is possible, although some people will tell me it is not. Certainly, with good transport facilities we could put everybody in the country within a 45 minute drive of a wide variety of job choices. New technology and communication will also be of great assistance in creating the possibilities for jobs for those with higher education in rural areas. If we provide suitable comprehensive infrastructure I have no doubt that we will then create the jobs.
When I became responsible for rural development I looked at the existing policy instruments. We have the Leader programme which in all reality is a small programme. It has done good work but the expenditure is less than £1 million per county per annum. If we compare that to the cost of miles of motorway the £20 million a year would build about four miles of motorway. In terms of investment it is not enough to redress the imbalance. It is a similar story with the Western Development Commission. When I questioned the effectiveness of that I was not questioning the people working on the board. I was just saying that £5 million would not solve the problems of seven counties from Clare to Donegal. If anybody thinks the problem is that simple to solve they are welcome to try. One has to look at a £48 billion plan and then work out the percentage that £5 million or £25 million will represent in that totality.
I am working at the moment on a programme called Clár. This had its genesis in the Rapid areas that were selected in the cities. The idea is to pick 15 or 16 areas on objective criteria and to give them special priority for expenditure under the national development plan. I have decided to go for one very simple criterion. Social poverty and deprivation is not very easily spatially identified. I looked at the maps of social deprivation according to the experts but what I know is the situation on the ground did not match the maps. The main problem of rural development is the withdrawal of services and transport because of lack of people. It affects rich and poor alike. I am as susceptible, living in Corr na Móna, to the lack of job opportunity for my offspring, to the bad roads and to the withdrawal of services as my less fortunate neighbours. Rural problems, unlike city problems, are not so clearly spatially divided and there is not the same social segregation.
The areas that we most identify with the classical rural problems we all talk about are those areas that have lost the most population in the last 70 years. I looked at the various centres and I chose to start from 1926. There are a huge number of areas that have lost more than 50% of their population since then. Some have lost 60% or 70%. Their problem is that having lost their population they now find it impossible to attract infrastructural development because people feel it is just not viable to service the area. They get caught in this vortex and at the same time other areas of the country are suffering from exactly the opposite problem.
Our idea is to get this programme up and running by mid summer and to see it as an implementation programme. We have had the plans, the CDBs – county development boards – the ADMs, the Leader programme etc. What this programme will set about doing is getting effec tive delivery on the ground and it will prioritise physical and social infrastructure projects in these areas.
I have also had a number of successful meetings with the Western Development Commission and we have examined how we can bring their plans to delivery and how their work can be enhanced. The biggest problem and the biggest excuse always in depopulated rural areas for not providing services is lack of population. This has become a vicious circle. My job is to end that vicious circle and to say that the very lack of population should be a priority reason for getting investment rather than a reason for not getting it. Our objective will be radical and will be to turn the world on its head and say that a declining area that has suffered all the classical symptoms of rural decline will now come to the top of the list.
When I was responsible for the Gaeltacht and the Islands, as Minister of State in the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, I tried these techniques of development. The islands were the ultimate challenge in rural development, being cut off, small and isolated and most people would have said that they did not even have viable populations. For very moderate expenditure these techniques were hugely successful in terms of motivation, self-development and kick starting regeneration of these areas. If it worked on islands, I have no doubt it will work in much more populous areas, including others that have suffered depopulation. This makes sense when one considers its economic logic. We are taking people out of rural areas and putting them in cities where a social, economic and physical infrastructure needs to be developed, which costs a huge amount of money.
Areas other than those on the western seaboard have suffered from depopulation, including parts of counties Meath, Westmeath, Longford, Tipperary, Cork, Monaghan, Cavan and Leitrim as well as those on the Atlantic like Sligo. In every rural community one will find schools with plenty of classrooms but not enough children, health centres that could handle twice as many patients, football, hurling, rugby and soccer clubs crying out for players and a lack of customers for pubs, shops, buses and trains. Social and economic infrastructure, whether private or public, tends to be under-utilised in rural areas. Children in urban areas grow up spending half their childhoods in housing estates without ever benefiting from the basic community infrastructure they require. Logic shows that if we develop communities where there is infrastructure and a strong community bond, there will be social advantages and economic sense will be made.
Our ability to do this is limited only by our vision. Our commitment is all that constrains us in tackling this problem and our will is all that limits us from making sure these areas grow again. Ireland is a small island, not much more than 300 miles long by 150 miles wide so there is no such thing as a peripheral area compared to countries like Canada and the United States. It is possible to ensure that every area shares economic growth. We must manage the spatial distribution of population so that 30 years from now the population of every significant area will have increased compared to 70 years ago. Such a vision and a commitment to its achievement are needed by everyone, whether from an urban or a rural area. Ba mhaith liom buíochas a gabháil leat, a Chathaoirligh, as ucht an deis labhartha. I am willing to respond to the points Senators make, as there is no point in having a debate if the Minister does not try to address the points that have been made.
I welcome the Minister of State to the House for this important debate on rural development, which takes place at a critical juncture. I welcome his conversion to the merits of his job as I remember him being less than enthusiastic about his new responsibility for rural development when he was interviewed on radio following his transfer. He said at the time that he is a doer, not a talker and that nobody likes a powerless politician which he felt he was about to become. Having spoken to the Minister of State since his transfer, I feel the history he has inherited will not do him justice as he is developing a flair for his job. Sometimes a poor beginning makes for an exciting end and I hope that will be the case in regard to the Minister of State.
This Government and its predecessors have spoken endlessly about rural development, but nothing substantial has been done. Reference has been made to the Western Development Commission, which I will deal with later. A meeting of the National Rural Development Forum took place in Ballinlough, County Roscommon in 1999, at which the Minister of State, Deputy Davern, said that the publication of the White Paper on Rural Development was a milestone for rural development. Deputy Davern said the national development plan's £6.7 billion for rural development would bring the aspirations of the White Paper to fruition. Equally important, he said, was the fact that many State bodies and the social partners in the private, voluntary and community sectors had an active role to play in delivering the measures of the plan and thereby securing the future of rural areas.
Two years later, we are still talking about rural development and although some progress has been made in planning, nothing substantial has happened on the ground. The frustration of the people is beginning to surface as a result. I cannot go through all the deficiencies in rural areas, such as poor infrastructure. Last Sunday a convoy of articulated trucks held a "go slow" protest about the state of the N26 between Ballina, Westport, Castlebar and Tarmonbarry. The protesters drove from Swinford and Roscommon to Ballaghadereen, where they converged. People are beginning to lose patience and there is a percep tion that one would need to live to 170 to see substantial development in rural Ireland. Actions such as last Sunday's result from such frustration.
Having done nothing to the N26 for 30 years, it is interesting that Roscommon County Council has begun to make substantial progress. The road has been widened so it is much safer and I am sure many motorists have noticed an improvement as small things can make a difference. Many things needed will be not be dealt with under the national plan until 2015 or 2020, but the commercial life of rural Ireland and especially the west will not wait for a major road until then.
There are many facets to rural development. Tourism is much neglected in many parts of rural Ireland and there is a considerable imbalance between the west and the east. A total of 30 million people visit Ireland annually but only 10% travel to the west.
Rural tourism and part-time farming are compatible. Farming is going through a difficult and possibly disastrous period in many respects and farmers must supplement their income with a part-time job in the manufacturing or tourism industries. The IDA's record in attracting industry to the west is very poor. When Galway city is taken out of the equation, the number of jobs created in the five Connacht counties is negligible. A total of 56 jobs were created in County Mayo last year. Part-time farmers in the region are not getting an opportunity to take up employment in industry and this must be focused on. If we are to have a vibrant and affluent rural society, job opportunities must be created in rural Ireland.
The Minister of State is conscious of the development of our major cities and there is a concentration on encouraging the IDA and other State agencies to attract industry to rural areas. Industrialists say infrastructural deficiencies do not entice them to set up in the regions. For example, the electricity supply to the west is inadequate. There are few areas west of the River Shannon that could cater for a major IT company such as Intel or Hewlett-Packard, which have set in the Dublin region. The west does not have the infrastructure or electricity generation capacity to support such companies.
The ESB is planning some major developments, including a 220 kv line in Castlebar. However, it has been stymied by planning obstacles and objections. The process has been delayed and this has added to the ongoing frustration of people in the region. A generating station at Bellacorrick has been mooted to replace the peat-fired station there. However, it will only be a 60 or 70 megawatt station, which will not contribute significantly to the generating capacity of the ESB in the west.
There is no major port on the west coast and products manufactured in the region must be transported across the country to Dublin Port. If the Government made a substantial investment in this sector the problem would be alleviated. Investing £20 million or £25 million in a deep sea port in the west would cost less than the glass in the windows of the "Bertie Bowl" in Dublin. Such investment is needed in the west.
Money is the primary need for rural development. The Western Development Commission has a budget of £5 million this year. Given current economic values, there will no evidence on the ground of its expenditure. Vision and money are needed. The Minister of State has vision and I hope he has enthusiasm. I look forward to progress in the area of rural development over the next 12 months.
I welcome the Minister of the State to the House and I wish him well in his new portfolio. I am glad to have the opportunity to speak on the motion. The Minister of State made a crisp and straightforward contribution regarding what is needed in the area of rural development. I welcome his enthusiasm for his brief and his firm approach to rural development. It is a substantial task which will be measured by the commitment of Government through its response and investment.
I support Senator Caffrey's view that there is a need for targeted investment and to do away with the culture of using the population of an area as a measurement for investment. The N5 was not included in the national development plan on the basis of traffic levels at a particular time but its potential to carry more vehicles was not considered.
The Government delivered Objective One status for the BMW region and this has provided it with an opportunity to invest specific moneys totalling £18 billion there. It is fervently hoped that the Government will make a firm commitment to address the investment needs of rural Ireland. Targeted investment can redress the imbalance that currently exists and provide an equal opportunity to all citizens. There are serious concerns that if the Government misses this opportunity development in the State will be seriously imbalanced. Population statistics were published recently which highlighted that 53% of our people reside in Leinster. That represents a significant imbalance, which has the potential to increase given the investment that has been outlined in the NDP for the region.
The Minister of State said the education system drives our young people out of rural Ireland. Approximately 70% of second level students in County Mayo continue to third level and 50% of them do not return because they have a high rate of achievement. They will not return until the economic, leisure and other facilities are in place and there are job opportunities.
Senator Caffrey and I are not looking at this issue from the point of view of Mayo, Galway or the western region. This is a national problem which affects places from Cork to Tipperary and Carlow. There has been major decline in many parts of the country and many post offices have been closed. I heard on a radio programme today that Allied Irish Banks has closed 37 rural offices and regional depots in the past year and a half and that most of the ten or 15 offices it has opened are concentrated in colleges, third level education centres and shopping centres. Consideration is not being given to what has been taken away from the public and that has led to a decline in rural areas.
We need to look at the financial institutions and post offices. I understand the British are introducing a card system through their post offices which will provide services to pensioners and people who do not have bank accounts. ATMs are important for the tourism and agri-tourism business in towns with 700, 800 or 900 people where banks have been closed. People must have access to money. It costs a financial institution approximately £30,000 per annum to service an ATM. We must consider using post offices to provide basic services which will add to the economic structure of a town.
The Government recently took a stand in relation to the establishment of a section in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment to meet the commitments given to the BMW region. I would like more positive decisions, a more targeted approach and the creation of more jobs in the BMW region. I would like to see reports brought before the House which deal with the need for jobs in these areas and the distribution of employment in the regions, particularly the BMW region.
Substantial investment will be made between 2000 and 2006 under the national development plan to deal with some of the structural defects in the State. If this is not handled properly, a bigger imbalance will be created and that will not help the country in the long term. This is an opportune time to look at the country as a whole. We are in the process of introducing the national spatial plan which should help the Government to see where financial commitments are required.
I hope the airports, such as Knock International Airport and other airports in the BMW region and throughout the country, are part of our economic and industrial development. Although there has been State and local investment in them, they have been shabbily treated by Governments. The people who run these airports have shown great commitment. Many of them had great difficulty dealing with airlines and with other people who provide services. Because these airports have been managed properly, they have paid for themselves and a service has been sustained in these areas. There is a tremendous opportunity for the Government to give a firm commitment to these airports to allow them to achieve their potential by developing them and providing the necessary financial and other facilities in the future.
This is the first time the Minister of State has been in the House since he was appointed Mini ster of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. We dealt with him when he was Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands. I thank him for his commitment to north Mayo which has suffered substantial job losses in recent years. This area does not have much opportunity for job creation. I also thank him for establishing the core group which analysed the prospect of investment in Mayo, particularly north Mayo. This commitment to the north Mayo region is a priority of the Minister of State and it will be delivered on in the future.
Local authorities, county enterprise boards and other groups have a role to play in supporting and maintaining community development. Local authorities are doing substantial work to rejuvenate our towns. There has been little take-up of the tax incentives for small towns recently announced by the Government. Local authorities can play a greater part in encouraging people to avail of these tax incentives and in informing the public. Positive work can be done in this area. Improvements have been made in infrastructure and in the provision of services, such as sewerage and water, which will help these towns to grow. We have a substantial way to go but we are moving in the right direction.
There is a major task ahead of us, but there are also tremendous opportunities. I support the Minister of State's approach in identifying the specific areas of major decline. If we, with the support of the Government, deal with 15 or 16 areas in a positive, planned and determined way, it will form the basis for further investment in the future and it will be a great way to monitor the input of the Government and this committed Minister of State to rural development. It will be the blueprint for further development. I expect the Government will support the Minister of State's proposed plan to tackle this issue, which is a major challenge and needs to be addressed in the near future.
I congratulate the Minister of State on his recent appointment to this portfolio. I was extremely pleased to hear his contribution. I am not someone who lightly gives plaudits to anyone, but his contribution was outstanding. It was the best contribution on rural development I have heard in this House since I became a Member. He identified and understood the issues and he showed a positive and enthusiastic outlook for the future.
One of the difficulties with rural development is that, too often, it has been linked with the decline and the changing face of agriculture, but it is much more than that. We should look upon rural development as being about people and living communities. It does not matter whether people are involved in agriculture, tourism, health care or whatever. We must strive to have towns and villages throughout rural Ireland in which people enjoy living. What can we do to bring that back into rural Ireland, which is dying on its feet? There is little point in saying otherwise. All the schemes we have in place, albeit doing good work in their own areas, are only scratching the surface. That is the reason I was interested to hear the Minister of State talk about the Clár programme. I look forward to that with great enthusiasm.
If we examine the issue in the context of the development of the economy over the past five or six years, the economy has thrived. We have a huge balance of payments surplus. Unemployment is down to 3.5%. Who could have thought of figures of that nature five, six or even ten years ago? They were just pie in the sky. Unfortunately, however, people are still leaving rural areas and, as the Minister of State rightly pointed out, they are leaving areas where the social fabric exists to move into towns and cities where it does not exist. That is causing a total imbalance and it is imperative on us to try to put in place a structure whereby the balance can be tipped the other way.
We have to ask ourselves a fundamental question. Are we prepared to have a bias in favour of rural areas to bring about that balance? We should have that bias. What form it would take is open to suggestion and debate, but we should have that balance. If a post office is not turning over enough money or a bank is not doing enough business, the answer is to close it down because the faceless men and women in suits in offices somewhere say it is uneconomic. The figures back them up, so they close the office down. Our definition of economics needs to be redefined because figures mean nothing if people cannot live. We must set up a system whereby people in rural Ireland want to live there.
The frightening statistics about the decline in population in rural areas hide one major factor, that is, the age structure of those people. All the enterprising and educated young people are moving out, and these areas are left with those who are not in the same position to drive the local economy. We must put in place the systems, structures and investment in rural areas regardless of whether it is the west, the east, the South or the North. It happens everywhere. These systems must be put in place to encourage young people, having achieved their educational qualifications, to come back and invest in their own communities by way of their presence. I see nothing wrong with people wanting to live in Kiltimagh, Ballon, Knocktopher or wherever and working ten or 15 miles away, but it is important that they live in these areas. I have no doubt that if we do that properly, the quality of life will be enhanced, not just in rural Ireland but in urban areas also.
That is the reason I fully support the programme to develop the major roads infrastructure. I am aware many people are putting question marks over that issue. Communities in my constituency and many other constituencies feel strongly about where these roads might or might not be sited, but it is imperative that we have them because it will mean that people can move around much more freely. Equally, our rail service has to be improved. People will say it is uneconomic, but what is economics about?
The issue of decentralisation has been debated here at length and it has been looked upon as the panacea for all the ills of our local areas. It is imperative that we decentralise, not just in terms of central Government but even in terms of local government. If an area has a particular advantage in terms of decentralisation of a particular body or organisation, it is important that we go for it because it has that strength and advantage. A case in point is Carlow, which has an institute of technology and the crop science centre for Teagasc, yet the Teagasc headquarters is based in Sandymount Avenue in Dublin. We must get real. What is the point in having the headquarters in Sandymount Avenue?
The crop testing centre of the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development is based in Backweston. It also had a location in Ballinacurra, in Cork, until relatively recently, but many of the trials carried out by those Department centres were tested in Oakpark, in Carlow. Why not move all of them together to a location where everybody can work in conjunction with one another? Because of the presence of an institute of technology, there is also work in the area of crop biotechnology. It should all be moved together and allowed to develop because we will get the ribbon effect throughout the area in terms of development. There will be a professional capacity within an area and all their work has to be serviced. The towns five, ten or 15 miles away will provide those services and people will want to live in that area. That is the way decentralisation should take place.
It is important that we do not put decentralisation on the back burner, which I am concerned is currently the case, but when we decentralise we must do it for the right reasons. We have to think not just in terms of the next five or ten years or, unfortunately in the business we are all in, the next general election or the one after it. We have to think in terms of the lifetime of communities.
A matter that causes me great concern is the difficulty people experience in getting planning permission to build houses in rural areas. As a landscape architect, I abhor what we all call ribbon development. It is wrong and it does not enhance any society or the area in which one lives, but if somebody wants to live in rural Ireland and they have a site on which to build a house, no local authority should be in a position to tell that person they cannot live there. That is wrong. It is important to listen to people. We can develop new and old housing in rural areas far better than we have done in the past and far more sensitively in terms of the landscape, but we can also enhancing rural communities. If we do that the right way, get these faceless people who sit in offices making decisions out of our hair and make the decisions properly, we will move forward much more positively in the future.
I could go on at length, but it is important to focus on a few issues. I compliment the Minister of State. He has been in the Department a relatively short time but his background is coming to the fore. I look forward to the developments he will bring forward in the future. I sincerely hope that in ten years' time, the people in this House and in the Lower House will be able to say that we have a vibrant countryside.
I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Ó Cúiv, and wish him well in the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. From his work in other Departments and in the private sector before becoming a Member of the Dáil, I know he will make a great success of his new role.
I welcome this debate on rural and western development. This issue includes many areas such as infrastructure, agricultural development, industrial development, community development, tourism and education. We must examine these issues carefully if we are to protect rural areas.
Things are going well in many areas. This is the time to examine what is happening and what we can do to improve facilities and infrastructure, particularly in rural areas. National primary routes are being developed which are essential to bring people into and through the regions. However, problems arise as a result of these developments and some people perceive difficulties. Many people must stand back and look at the bigger picture. They must consider the long-term development of the country and the regions and allow these roads to be developed as quickly as possible.
We must carefully examine the question of tolling these roads. If one is going to the west or to Galway, one may have to pay two tolls. The BMW region is a disadvantaged area which needs more people, more development and more money. We need these roads, but we should not start by charging people to come into the region.
Public transport services do not exist in many rural areas. Senior citizens are entitled to a free bus pass. However, many such people point out that this would be fine if public transport was available. We must address this issue. There must be co-operation between local authorities, health boards and semi-State bodies to provide public or feeder transport to bring people to major towns and to the main rail and bus networks.
I welcome the new gas pipeline which will bring supplies from the gas field off County Mayo. All towns in the region must be connected to the pipeline to provide development opportunities based on gas supplied at a reasonable cost. Coming from the midlands, we tend to be passed over as regards such developments. The gas pipeline must be extended into the midlands as quickly as possible.
The development of rural areas is largely based on agriculture, but many farmers survive on low incomes. The Minister of State should examine the farm retirement scheme under which many farmers retired to allow well-trained, qualified farmers to take over their businesses. Most farmers need an off-farm income. However, one condition of the scheme is that the off-farm income cannot exceed 50% of the on-farm income. If a farmer earns more than 50%, the individual who took the major step of retiring to allow his or her son or daughter to take over loses the pension. This is a deplorable provision which must be changed quickly if we wish to keep people in rural areas and attract young, active people into farming. The industry has gone through a difficult period since this scheme was introduced and young farmers require an off-farm income to enable them to stay on the land and to develop their farms. This issue must be examined immediately.
The midlands has experienced the closure of ESB stations and cutbacks by Bord na Móna. However, I welcome recent developments such as the granting of planning permission for a new ESB station in Shannonbridge and other developments in Lanesborough. These are welcome and positive developments and I hope these stations come on stream quickly. At present industrialists must install generators to guarantee a supply of electricity to enable them to continue to provide employment in rural areas and small towns. They should not have to do so as we should have an adequate supply of electricity to enable industrialists to create employment without worrying about being left in the dark at a critical production period.
I welcome the town renewal schemes. However, many of these schemes will be non-runners because the expert group which dealt with this issue did not visit the towns to examine them closely. Areas with nothing but grass were zoned for refurbishment. How can one refurbish such a site to enable people to develop buildings and avail of tax breaks? This is wrong and the group should have allowed people to build or to refurbish sites for residential or commercial use. This issue must be revisited as quickly as possible as we depend on the town renewal scheme to generate development in rural towns.
Recent CSO statistics indicate that the population of Dublin will increase by about 500,000 while there will be a reduction of about 20,000 in the midlands. People will move from the midlands, which is not what we wish to see. We must ensure that regions such as the midlands develop and prosper.
As local authority members we must also examine developments in the regions, including, as Senator Gibbons said, county development plans. In many cases we tend to move through such plans without giving proper thought to rural development. Major problems have arisen as a result. I thoroughly agree we should not have ribbon development but people from rural areas should have the opportunity of providing their own homes, thus enabling them to remain there. In that way parish schools will avoid closure and hurling and football teams will survive. Many rural areas are facing such problems.
The projections for general economic and population trends in the midlands signal difficult times ahead. It is time to consider seriously the establishment of a development commission for the midlands along the lines of the Western Development Commission, with real powers and an appropriate investment budget. As the Minister of State said, the time for talking is over, it is time for action. Everyone here has confidence in the Minister of State to ensure there will be a turnaround in rural areas.
I compliment the Minister of State, Deputy Ó Cuív, on his contribution on this important issue. I cannot think of anyone more suitably qualified to hold the rural development portfolio than him. During the years, a large percentage of his contributions have dealt with revitalising and renewing rural areas. This is an important issue, particularly for those who represent constituencies in the midlands and west. For such decisions to be made, however, people must also believe in them on the east coast because that, to a great extent, is where the power lies. Unless decisions are made here that take account of the difficulties we are experiencing in the midlands and west, they will not have the desired effect.
I wish to compliment the Government on a number of issues, including the case taken to Europe by it to retain Objective One status in 13 counties of the Border, midlands and west region. Other important initiatives have also been undertaken by it, including the funding of the Western Development Commission and the designation of a tax incentive scheme for rural renewal. While I would like to see the scheme being extended, it certainly has contributed enormously towards the revitalisation of a number of rural villages. If there is a setback, it is that copybook planners apply Manchester guidelines to rural county villages, which is a major impediment. Why can a national policy not override those type of impractical guidelines that are not in keeping with what is intended?
Before the Famine, 150,000 people lived in County Roscommon without electricity, running water, sewerage schemes or reasonable housing. Today the county has a population of 50,000. We have all the facilities I mentioned, yet it is practically impossible to get planning permission for a house in a rural area. Something must be seriously wrong for such a situation to have developed. How are we to ensure population growth and revitalise rural areas unless simple housing development is part of the policy? The onus is on local authorities to grant planning permission for such development.
As things stand in many parts of the west and north west, industries cannot be established due to inadequate electricity supplies and the lack of fibre optic cable for telecommunications. Thus, a large section of the country is being excluded from industrialisation even if industrialists wished to establish businesses there. As regards the road infrastructure, there was a protest last week over the condition of the N5. That national primary route includes a 40 miles stretch running through County Roscommon and a further 50 miles stretch running through Mayo, but it is sub-standard. If any industrialist travelling on that road got back home without crashing his car, he certainly would not go down again to establish a business. It is a major impediment to progress.
Strategic decisions should be taken to install heavy duty cable for electricity supplies, fibre optic cable for telecommunications, and a reasonable road infrastructure for improved transport links. Those basic requirements must be prioritised in order for the west, north west and midlands to develop. While there are many fine elements in the national development plan, those basic elements are missing. The NDP states that the N5 will be considered for funding in 2019, although some parts of it have been included in the current plan.
I represent an electoral area comprising 9,000 people, where only one village has a public sewerage scheme. How can an area develop if it does not have such schemes? Modern sewerage schemes are cheap and can be installed for £500,000 with a contribution of £50,000 or £60,000 from the developer. The technology is excellent and units can be lifted into place by crane, catering cheaply for 100 or 200 houses. Practical steps can be taken to effect rural development and the Minister of State is the right person to do so. Long-winded policy statements may sound great, particularly when made at conferences attended by the media, but when the headlines are forgotten the potholes and dangerous bends remain and there is still no sewerage in the village.
County managers and State agencies should be called in and asked what they have in mind for the counties concerned. We should see what input they can make concerning communications infrastructure, for example. I understand the money is available for such projects provided that we go about it in a practical way.
A very strong case for decentralisation should be made. Dublin is bursting at the seams, as the Minister of State said in his statement, and the projection is that things will get worse. The Government decision we are told is imminent should be to decentralise to the areas where there is an opportunity to increase population, taking away pressure and revitalising the counties in the Objective One area.
The matter of jobs will not be handled properly until infrastructure is in place. However, there are opportunities that are not being pursued by the agencies. I still believe there is a bias towards the city even for companies which do not need the type of infrastructure I am talking about. I have found this recently and I ask that IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland be instructed as to what Government policy is and told it is their job to implement it. They are not independent republics and they cannot go ahead and do things as they see fit. While these agencies may not be direct Civil Service entities and have certain statutory remit, that remit must be to implement Government policy.
There is great opportunity in forestry. We have an existing policy on forestry but tens of thousands of acres of cut-away bogs and other areas are being made available to us. For some reason the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development will not entertain proposals regarding them. The Department says it is unsuitable, that it does not have a policy on it and that therefore it cannot be taken on. I fail to understand that. Cut-away bogs and low-lying areas are suitable, if not for broad-leafed trees then certainly for spruces or pines. While it is not within the Minister of State's remit I ask that he take up that point.
The issue of health services is a national one. In the absence of general hospitals and public transport it is important that we have welfare homes and geriatric facilities. The most horrible thing that can be done to an old couple is that one of them is made to go 40 to 50 miles to get a place in a geriatric hospital, meaning their spouse has to get there once every two or three weeks by hired car. No greater hardship can be suffered by an elderly couple than that. What is needed is the provision of welfare homes in suitable locations to which people ten miles away can get. This is not understood in cities. In some cases, from Galway city I could get to Dublin quicker than to the furthest ends of the Western Health Board area. I bet that is not understood at Department level.
I thank the Minister of State and the House for the opportunity to say these few words. I will give him every support I can and I have no doubt that during his term he will advance the case of developing infrastructure in the areas mentioned. What will naturally follow is that people will move to and live in them. That is what we want at the end of the day.
I lend my support to much of what has been said here. The last topic spoken of by Senator Finneran was one of the things I was thinking about. It is wrong to take people out of their own environment and move them 40 or 50 miles away. Though I hate to say it, it definitely shortens their lives to be away from their people and everything they have been used to.
If the Minister of State does half as much in rural development as he did for the Gaeltacht regions when he was in the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, the whole country will be changed. I may be a little parochial on this – that is the way the cookie crumbles – but in the Gaeltacht of west Kerry there are not five yards of bad road. Every yard has a perfect surface but when you come out of those areas and into those the county council is responsible for, the roads are bad again. What the Minister of State did at his last Department was confined rural development to the Gaeltacht areas. He put small amounts of money into slipways and piers and then started on the roads in a proper manner with the scéim na mbóithre áise. He threw down the gauntlet to county councils saying, "There is £200,000, you match it with £200,000 and get the roads done." He insisted the roads be tackled from the farthest points away and come in to the baile mór. They came in a lot quicker than was ever thought possible. The Minister of State wrought a total change in all the Gaeltacht areas in terms of roads and other matters.
I listened to Senator Caffrey and I too saw on television last week those who were disgruntled about the condition of roads in Roscommon. Even if you got a magic wand in the morning and said all the roads would be improved it would still be an impossibility. There has to be a priority. You have to start somewhere and end somewhere. Just like those people up the country we have a road from Tralee to Dingle which is down as being first class when only 12 miles of it have been improved. Part of it is in a terrible condition and part of it has been upgraded. The NRA report clearly specifies that the road will be brought up to national secondary route standard by 2006. Those living along it and travelling it are not satisfied with that. I would rather turn my attention away from the roads because there is a huge amount of money available for all types of roads and I do not know why we are not getting down to it. They are being done but my big worry is for the small villages and towns. To use the term "village" signifies the post office, the church, the creamery and the football field.
There is also the school.
It is a question of planning. There is a little baile between Tralee and Dingle and there is a 30 mile speed limit through it. It is not really a town but a cluster of houses along two miles of road. Planning permission was applied for recently by four people but they were turned down. I could not believe it because I was slightly involved with local politicians across the board, Fine Gael and other parties. Together we tried to get planning permission for these people. The local engineer checked and said there was no problem with the sites. The road had been widened eight or nine years previously and from the road to the fence there was about 25 to 30 feet in places. They were turned down. They did everything necessary and provided one opening for the field and a slip road and so on, but they were turned down. To make matters worse, they were told if they applied again they would get planning permission.
When I was on the council it was part of the county development plan that a farmer's son, daughter or family member would be entitled to build on their own land. If we acted according to our council and planning officers they would knock some of the houses built 80 or 90 years ago. One sees three or four scattered houses in the countryside. That would not be allowed today because those in charge say we are spoiling the countryside, but it is they who are doing so. This creates a bad taste in the mouth for young people.
I am referring to Lispole, a place Senator O'Toole knows well. There is a 30 mile limit and four houses with one opening involved. Planning permission was refused.
And it is 205 miles to Dublin.
There are grievances everywhere regarding planning.
We are going to reach the stage where we need post offices again because the banks are not coming up to standard. They are not doing what ordinary people want them to do. The new fangled approach involves filling out a form and phoning the bank to have your bills paid, but many people are suspicious of that because there will be a charge every time. We are fast drifting away from the day when one could go the bank to pay one's ESB and telephone bills. The banks do not want to see people any more.
Two post offices in the peninsula have been closed, ceann amháin i nDún Chaoin and another in Inch. The nearest post office to the people of those communities is seven or eight miles away, where public transport is terrible. One can only get a bus at 7 a.m. and at 6 p.m.
I want the Minister of State to do what he did for the Gaeltacht areas. If he does the same for rural Ireland he will be remembered a lot longer than his grandfather.
Follow that.
This plan is part of our future. The internal migration in the country is utterly damaging and is eroding communities. It is also completely unnecessary. I have often told the story of the difference in infrastructure between us and our neighbours. For example, my opposite number in the UK, the general secretary of the National Union of Teachers, lives in York and his office is in north London. He leaves York every morning on the 6.45 a.m. train, arrives in King's Cross station in London at 8.30 a.m. and gets to his office by 8.45 a.m. To put that in context, he lives further away from his office than I would if I lived in Dingle. The idea of someone in Ireland com muting those distances is something we do not understand.
Mayo has had an extraordinarily strong campaign to get third level education more widely available in the county and it has had some success, despite the lack of an enthusiastic response. That is one way to deal with this issue but there is no reason people cannot travel from Castlebar to Dublin, if that is where they attend college, by leaving at 7 a.m. and getting to Dublin about 70 minutes later. This would give them plenty of time to get to college and to get home in the evening. They could nearly go home for lunch if the system were right.
Long lunch breaks in the west.
That is how long the lunch break could be. This week, in Mór-roinn na hEorpa, a new rail service is being opened from Calais to Marseilles. Those trains travel at over 100 m.p.h. and the reality is that they are still investing. Why is it necessary for local communities to agitate and persuade politicians about something as reasonable as opening a railway line from Sligo to Limerick? The same people closed down the Harcourt Street line years ago against the available advice, when we said they were completely wrong. The same people wanted to put roads along the canals, which was proposed not long before I entered the Seanad. The same people are now closing down railways, though rail travel is the most efficient, effective and luxurious form of transport. The Victorians knew something about travel. They stuck with the railways and they were right.
Senator Farrell is in the House. In recent times there has been some improvement in the Dublin-Sligo rail line but it has been a shambles and an embarrassment to the people of Sligo. I remember arriving in Sligo on a number of occasions by train and on every occasion people would say how terrible the rail line was and how at least the train was only 20 minutes late. That was what the people of Sligo had to put up with. They could seldom use the train because they did not know if they could depend on it.
These investments involve small amounts of money. When the Athlone bypass was built the new bridge across the Shannon was erected at Athlone. That was very important in terms of opening up western infrastructure and I have no complaints about it, but if the same amount of money had been spent on the Sligo-Dublin rail line it would have brought the line up to the standard of the Dublin-Cork or Dublin-Galway lines. That needs to be done and the people of those areas should put the boot in hard on Governments of whatever hue to make sure it happens. If there were easy access between Sligo, towns in Mayo, Galway, Ennis and Limerick a whole new area would be opened up. There is a third level college in Sligo, part of a third level college in Castlebar and a number of third level institutions in Galway and Limerick.
If I had to go to a funeral at 7 p.m. in Cork tomorrow I could not return by train. That is ludicrous. The same applies to the west, which means we are clogging up the roads unnecessarily because of the lack of investment.
Ó thaobh cúrsaí oideachaise, táimse cinnte dá mba rud é go raibh daoine in ann oideachas a bheith acu sa chéad, dara agus tríú leibhéal ina áit dúchais fhéin, sa Ghaeltacht in some places but not sa Ghaeltachtaí i gcónaí, dá mba rud é go raibh sé sin ann agus go mbeadh a gcairde acu sa háiteanna sin ag dul tríd na trí leibhéal oideachais, sin iad na cairde a bheadh acu go deo. It is well known that the friends people make at third level are the friends they have for life. If those people were from their own communities and areas a whole new set of relationships and synergies would be created which would be useful for the future.
One aspect of the development of rural Ireland which is not mentioned often enough is the need for grant aid and support to ensure that those in the west and rural areas have the same access to cultural activities as those in the centre of Dublin. There should be proper grant aid support for orchestras, for example. The Limerick Chamber Orchestra is particularly good at touring the west and went to Inishbofin and various other places last year. We should ensure the quality of life and access to culture for those in the west is on a par with anywhere else on the island.
Senator Fitzgerald's point about housing is crucial. It has now reached the stage where people cannot live in their own areas. I hope the Minister of State agrees that the way in which the tax deal for certain areas was operated – where those building houses could get a tax break – created ghost towns and villages. I am not totally opposed to this, but it could be better directed. However, a situation where a deal is available to people from Dublin to buy a house in Westport while Westport children cannot build or buy a site for themselves, is to move backwards. We must discriminate positively in favour of local people. It will not work any other way in any community. It must be attractive for people to stay in their own areas.
On the question of transport infrastructure, the railways are not being developed due to the views of the business community, particularly IBEC, which has a view of the world which includes a cost survey of the running of railways which suggests that railways will not make a profit. There is no service from which to make a profit. If people knew they could walk out of their front door for trains that ran every hour to and from Dublin until about 11 p.m., they would not travel in their cars. If the service was available, it would create its own demand.
We should not listen to the negative thinking of people in the centre of Dublin who believe that there are no people interested in living in the west. The majority of those who migrate from the west to Dublin do so out of economic or practical necessity, not out of a desire to live in a large city. The future of the west and rural Ireland will be maintained and protected and advanced by investment in infrastructure more than anything else. People should not lose out in any way, be it artistically, financially, culturally or educationally by staying where they are. That is where we must focus our attention.
I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, Deputy Eamon Ó Cuiv, to the House. It is always great to see him returning to where he started off as a Member of the Oireachtas and to see him doing so well in his portfolio standing up for the parts of Ireland that are not getting their fair share of the success of the Celtic tiger. I could not agree more with the sentiments expressed by Senator O'Toole. This topic is being discussed following a request from Senator Chambers on the Order of Business and I am glad that we found time to discuss it before the summer recess.
I wish to make a case for three particular parts of the BMW region: the north Westmeath area where I live, the north Longford area next door to me and that part of County Cavan close to Mullahoran and Bellenagh which has witnessed a decline in population in the past 30 years of 41%. North Westmeath is an area only 50 miles from Dublin, while it is only 70 miles from Dublin to north Longford and County Cavan. In 1967, my home area in north Westmeath was in a five seat constituency, it then dropped to a four seater and is now a three seater. It is just 55 miles from Dublin. If the population is allowed to decline in a similar fashion, in the next local elections we will be part of the Mullingar local electoral area. This is neither acceptable nor fair.
I appreciate that the Minister of State has offered to spend a day in my area, meeting the various organisations, assessing how he can best help us and what incentives can be given to help the communities in those areas help themselves. The areas that I mentioned have been spoken about many times by many organisations. However, there has been substantial recent road infrastructural investment in the area. There is a dual carriageway to Kells, a motorway from Kilcock to Mullingar and the Mullingar bypass which will continue on to Longford. I hope these projects will be open to transport by the end of 2005.
The Minister of State's attitude has been a breath of fresh air to both Members of the Oireachtas and the people. He is the person in charge of the attempt to create a master plan to protect the survival of rural life in the areas I have mentioned. It is unfortunate that certain professionals – gardaí, bank workers, teachers and others – are now living in our larger towns. Their loss to the smaller communities and parishes where they work during the day is enor mous. Some 25 to 40 years ago, these people were the backbone of the many social and sports organisations making a contribution to the vibrancy of a parish. It is always a few people who keep things going in every parish, and the loss of these community leaders is a new development in the past ten to 15 years.
If we could have a level pitch in Mullingar, we should have the gas pipeline running to the town. I am aware that it is running from Galway to Dublin and will stop at Dalystown. However, I would like to see the supply of natural gas extended to Mullingar, to give the town an opportunity of standing on a level playing field when it attempts to attract new industry and jobs.
The people of Mullingar and north Westmeath are looking forward to the proposed Irish Transport Museum, under discussion with many Departments. The museum project will be a catalyst for countrywide tourism development. Its concept has been developed in collaboration with the National Railway Museum in York, of which Senator O'Toole spoke. He has a friend who was communicating daily from it. It is Europe's largest transport museum and the current European Museum of the Year.
I hope the museum in Mullingar will provide for a uniquely interactive recreation of our transport past and it will be a tribute to the men and women who worked on our railways, roads and canals. The project will be the catalyst for new tourism enterprises along the Royal Canal from Killucan to Ballynacarrigy and beyond. The museum points the way to the creation of a heritage railway line in County Westmeath from Mullingar to Athlone, linking our two principle towns – from the Shannon to Mullingar and the area just north of Mullingar which I have pointed out is rapidly declining in population.
This line from Mullingar to Athlone will give tourism opportunities to the villages of Castletown Geoghegan, Streamstown and Moate, providing ideal locations for filming and other tourism related activities. There is a virgin line, probably the longest in the British Isles, running from Mullingar to Athlone. It is 29 miles long. Linking with the existing attractions in the area, this project is aimed at making County Westmeath a tourist destination rather than a stopover. More than that, its scale means that it will be a flagship project for the entire midlands.
This project is also planned to include a strong additional commercial element which would allow the museum to be an attraction of the highest international quality while providing additional high quality jobs for the area. Its inclusion in a plan for economic and infrastructural development around Mullingar station would make this very special. It would allow Mullingar and County Westmeath to take the imaginative leap into major employment in new information technologies. Midland towns such as Longford, Tullamore and Cavan, the home town of the former Tánaiste, Mr. John Wilson, were all favoured with decentralisation. Mullingar has not been so favoured. That would be one way for the Government to make an investment that is badly needed.
The Victorian station in Mullingar offers unique tourism potential. The town has an existing fibre-optic infrastructure to allow many new industries to locate there. Mullingar also has the powerful combination of a semi-State company anxious to develop profitable services, local business investors who believe in the town and an excellent and forward-looking local authority in Westmeath County Council. These interests can come together to make Mullingar a model town and Westmeath a model county for the new era.
I thank the Cathaoirleach for affording me the opportunity to contribute. I hope I will be able to pass on a copy of the press release on Mullingar station from which I quoted to the Minister of State after he concludes his business in the House this evening.
I welcome the Minister of State. I am not as well prepared as the Leader because I did not believe I would have an opportunity to contribute since I had to attend a number of meetings today.
I take this opportunity to thank the Minister of State for the work he did for the Gaeltacht areas, most of which are situated in the west, and for the islands in particular. Prior to the last general election he was solely responsible for preparing our party's policy on rural development. While only part of that work was relevant to his work as Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, a great deal of what he prepared has helped to rejuvenate Gaeltacht areas. The Minister of State entered the Department and I do not know whether it was because there was so much money in the Exchequer at the time, but he managed to extract from the Minister for Finance substantial funding for the Gaeltacht areas and the islands.
When speaking in the area I represent I have often stated that we did not need the Minister for the Environment and Local Government because we had a Minister of State, Deputy Ó Cuív, acting in that capacity at the Department of the Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands. He was extremely successful in procuring substantial funding for Gaeltacht projects and infrastructural work, such as repairs to roads etc., which had been neglected for many years. Although we were sorry to see the Minister of State leave the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, we now have one of our own in situ and I assure him that she is carrying on the fantastic work he began. I am delighted the Minister of State has taken up his new position because I know he will encourage the Department and its officials to provide the funding he requires to do his job. In addition, I know he will ensure that a proper level of money is invested in rural and western development.
The Taoiseach visited Gartan prior to the last general election and stated that he intended to retain Objective One status for the west. He succeeded in ensuring that this status was retained for the 13 counties which form what is known as the BMW region. Some structures have been established by the Western Development Commission, but progress has been extremely slow and we are still waiting for certain programmes to come on stream. The latter are meant to be in place in the period 2000 to 2006 and 2002 is almost upon us. I hope the Minister of State will be able to cut through the bureaucratic red tape that is delaying progress. Should the money in the Exchequer disappear in future years – the foot and mouth disease crisis will probably have a particularly adverse effect on this year's budget surplus – we may be left behind. It is important that we get things up and running as soon as possible.
I will take a leaf from Senator Cassidy's book and discuss my county. Donegal is completely cut off from the remainder of the country as a result of partition. It is similar to Alaska in the United States in that it is isolated in the uppermost corner of the island. When I hear other Senators refer to the placing of tolls on bypasses and CPO compensation for farmers in respect of the new motorways being built in the midlands and the south-west, I immediately think about the tortuous journey I am obliged to make on each occasion I return to Donegal. There are no plans to improve the A5 which runs through the centre of the county and leads into Northern Ireland. On many occasions I travel through Sligo, but I often encounter difficulties in making this journey. I also encounter difficulties when travelling on the N3 through County Cavan and into County Fermanagh.
There does not seem to be an impetus in the NRA to provide the proper funding for road development in the west and the north-west. When I say "the west", I am referring to the area that runs from the Minister of State's constituency up into Donegal. Regardless of whether Senator Tom Fitzgerald likes it, the west is not comprised of Counties Galway, Kerry etc.
The real west.
Those areas have been well catered for. Senators Chambers, Burke and Caffrey often refer to the disgraceful condition of the railway line to Mayo. County Donegal does not have a railway line. It had such a line when I was at secondary school and I used to catch the train at Strabane, pass through Northern Ireland and transfer to the Dublin train at Portadown which would bring me to my school in County Meath. However, that line no longer exists and the only means of entering Donegal is to travel by road. Plans for the N2 have been totally rejected. It is proposed to build a motorway which will run as far as Ashbourne and after that a number of bypasses will be put in place around the towns between Ashbourne and Monaghan, but that will not be sufficient to attract industries to Donegal.
I have attended meetings in Donegal at which industrialists stated that the regional airports at Carrickfinn and Derry would not provide the solution in terms of gaining quick access to the county. In the first instance, major airlines will not service the area because a large enough proportion of the population will not travel by air and, second, people would be obliged to travel an hour or two each way to get to the airport. The road network is the main infrastructural tool with which to attract industries into places such as Donegal. Many young people are leaving the county because they cannot obtain employment. It is not possible to create jobs unless the required infrastructure is in place to attract business.
Two small computer companies, one of which Senator Fitzgerald is familiar with because his son worked for it, located their operations in Dungloe, but they were obliged to leave because they could not attract properly skilled management operatives to come in and train other personnel. One of the reasons it is not possible to attract properly qualified people who require ample salaries is that they encounter major difficulties getting out of the county if they want to go somewhere for the weekend. In addition, there are no social activities, leisure centres or certain sports facilities available for these people. Part of the reason for this is that the same criteria are applied to Donegal as are applied to other counties when it comes to making judgments. For example, Deputy Gildea is supposed to have received a promise of funding for a swimming pool in a rural area of the county. The matter has been discussed at local authority level and we have met consultants who insist on applying the same criteria which obtain in respect of building a swimming pool in counties Meath or Dublin. They must realise that the levels of population are completely different and rid themselves of the idea that standards, rules and regulations must be strictly applied. If we are intent on developing underdeveloped areas, we must bypass the bureaucracy and provide the proper funding.
Community employment schemes are being effectively shut down by the rules and regulations that are being introduced. I do not know why the rules for such schemes which obtain in Navan should also obtain in Cornamona or Dungloe because the level of unemployment in the latter areas is high, while in other areas there is almost full employment. Community employment schemes are great because they take people off the dole and give them the opportunity to feel proud by virtue of the fact that they can go out to work and contribute to their communities. They are supposed to be training schemes, but in the west they should be a source of unemployment benefit because of the high levels of unemployment there.
The required tourism infrastructure is not being put in place. I will bet that when the new programme comes on stream, the old reliables that sucked up the funding in the past will do so again. Proper grants and tax relief must be provided. I asked the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, in three successive budget debates, to put in place a rural renewal scheme for west Donegal but I am still waiting for it.
I will conclude on my main hobby horse, the fishing industry. I congratulate the Minister, Deputy Fahey. He was a bit slow in getting out of the starting blocks and I was afraid the civil servants in the Department of the Marine and Natural Resources had nobbled him the way they had every Minister in that Department for the past 25 years. He spoke recently about the controls we have had to accept while the Spaniards, Dutch and everyone else do whatever they want, and the way our fishing rights were dissipated in 1973. We in west Donegal have little industry other than tourism and fishing. I do not see why, to satisfy the rules from Brussels and the rest of the European population, we in west Donegal cannot use our natural resources. We have 11% of the territorial water and 4% of the quota.
I have great confidence in the Minister of State's ability in the portfolio he has been given and I hope the Government will accede to his requests. I know he has the ideas and I know that, as with the Gaeltacht, he will try to put the budget in place to allow significant improvements in infrastructure and the standard of living of those in the west.
There are ten minutes remaining and I understand the Minister of State wishes to respond to some of the points raised.
I thank Members for the debate. Much of what was said mirrors concepts I have put forward since I came to the job. I believe the ideas reflect what politicians at all levels, both local and national, have said but which have not been put into practice.
Senator Caffrey referred to statements I made when I came into the job. He was right. I did not want to be in the job if I could not walk out at the end and say I had made a significant difference, that I had delivered on issues Members referred to, which every politician in rural areas knows need to be done. I am full of enthusiasm because, in the intervening months, the support I have received from Government, especially from the Taoiseach, in developing and progressing this programme has been incredible. When I articulated my views – I do not beat about the bush – about what needed to be done and what was being taken on when I came to the job, the Taoiseach responded positively.
The model for what I want to do in rural Ireland is the same operation we put in place in the Gaeltacht areas and the islands, only on a much larger scale. If it can work in places as peripheral as those, it can work more easily and effectively in rural Ireland.
The first question we must ask ourselves is whether people want to live in rural Ireland. I will give the answer to that question in two lines. First, who travels on the buses parked on Friday evenings on the quays in Dublin? It is young people going home. Second, the waiting lists in the Civil Service for transfer to decentralised offices run to years. People are trying to get back to the west, north-west, south-west or wherever. If one does not believe people want to get back to those areas, why are people queuing, in one case every weekend and in another for years, to get back to these areas?
From my experience in developing industry, infrastructure is vital, but we have always developed it post factum. In other words, we have development and then we develop the infrastructure. That is nonsense and we must break that vicious circle quickly. Roads were mentioned. My attitude is, if some people do not want motorways built in their area, I know people in the west who will take the money tomorrow and spend it. If they do not want motorways on the N8 or N7, they should be scaled down and we will take them on the N56, N80, N59 and N5. If the Department is spending the money, there are many people who would get down on their hands and knees and offer the land for free to build the roads.
There is one good characteristic of the people in the Gaeltacht I must mention. When I said I would widen the roads in Gaeltacht areas, land was needed to do that. Although they received very little for it because the acreage being used was so small, with few exceptions the people there signed immediately to give the land in return for a wall and about £50 to £100 each. If there is a problem spending money on main routes, we should take the attitude that there are other places which will take it.
Railways have huge potential, although I believe in transport of every type. I see it with my family who are at university in Dublin. The greatest thing that happened for the average student from the west who attends college in Dublin is the buses which go home at frequent intervals all day and late into the evening. Without those buses the weekend trip home would not be possible. The private sector had the courage to realise that frequency would create demand which would have a knock-on effect of creating greater demand and greater frequency. We were told 20 or 30 years ago that this would never be realised. I understand it was a young civil servant who started this in the first place.
Power is needed. To the objectors to the 220 kv lines going through the countryside I say that if they do not want them, others do. Let us construct the lines where people are willing to accept them. Broadband, new technology, sewerage, airports, gas, and town and village renewal are all key aspects of development. It is much easier to attract industry to a town which looks nice and vibrant and is well presented than to one which looks derelict. I remember going through one midlands town thinking that it looked derelict. I wondered how any industry could be attracted to it.
Jobs can be created in many areas, but we always look to industry. Few people working in Dublin work in industry. In terms of heavy industry, the countryside has not done that badly because many urban areas will not take heavy industry. The major growth in jobs is in services. One of the largest employers is the State. The major industries in Galway are education and health. While the central hospital cannot be moved, I certainly concur with those who say that any service, be it the local authority, health service or whatever, should be brought to local level. That makes sense. For example, bringing care for the elderly to local level not only provides a much better quality and much more accessible service for people by helping them stay in their community, it also provides jobs for carers in the community. We must focus on bringing services to local level. I am delighted that issue was raised.
It is similar with education. A certain amount of snobbery has grown up around third level. It does not matter which university is in question, in many cases the equipment used is still a blackboard and chalk and perhaps an overhead projector. This is simple equipment which is in secondary schools as well as third level. University College Galway would not have had more than 1,000 students in the 1950s, yet it had every faculty, medicine, science, humanities etc. We now have the idea that we cannot have a third level institution without 8,000 students. It does not make sense.
I was impressed when I visited the Teagasc farm facility in Athenry. I discovered that six or seven PhD students in biotechnology operate out of there with the best of equipment. The dispersal of such opportunities for students and the people who train and teach them is incredible and is such that we do not have to wait for the mobile investment. If we have such institutions, the mobile investment will follow.
I recently did an interesting mental survey. While attending a football match, I got the programme and looked at the Galway team, which tells us something about the society in which we live. One-third of the population of County Galway lives in the city, while two-thirds live in the rural area. There was not one player on the panel from the city area, even though one could say they play other sports. However, there appears to be a disproportionate number of rural players on the top league team.
Another interesting aspect is that of the 30 players on the county panel, none has left his club. Many of them spend their life commuting to play for their clubs. This indicates a great parish loyalty, which is a good thing. Young people today do not join clubs in Dublin, Cork, Limerick or wherever, preferring to go back home every week-end. The tie is still at home and they want to be home where their friends are. I have found this to be the case with many young people in my area. There is a draw there. I believe this says something about the quality of life for young people in rural areas. That there is a super quality of life is indicated by the fact that a disproportionate number of top athletes come from these areas. There is a certain bonding and quality of life, whereas urban children are subject to different types of pressures and problems. Because of social breakdown and social segregation, certain urban areas are losing out. There is a serious social issue which must be looked at.
One aspect I ruled out in the Department is talking about rural Ireland in terms of deprivation and so on, as if it was a terrible place to live. Given the right circumstances, it is a fantastic place to live, which is why it should be developed. Agriculture and fishing, which are key to development, are the linchpin of rural Ireland and must be further developed.
In regard to financial institutions, post offices and so on, we must recognise that the world has to change and burying our head in the sand will not stop the rot. Anyone who says that every rural post office must be kept open and everything must be kept as it was 50 years ago will wind up in total defeat. I have noticed a change. Given drive and energy, if the banks close, credit unions can be set up. In other words, rather than always fighting a rearguard action, we should be proactive and take positive action. I have seen this happen in the more progressive rural areas. Instead of being reactive all the time, they have been proactive. If the institutions are withdrawn, they set up their own institutions to replace them. I have seen extraordinary things happen in that regard. There are parts of south Connemara, for example, that now have their own banking services, even though they never had a banking service in the past, because the people of the area set them up themselves. I felt there was a negative approach at times where we held on to what we had instead of saying if the times have changed and something must go, we can get something good to replace it.
The contributions on planning were very interesting and mirror my ideas on the issue. Senator Gibbons was absolutely correct. Ribbon development and linear development of our roads has been the destruction of rural Ireland from a visual point of view. The number of houses is not the problem but the siting of the houses and the absolute obsession of planners and planning institutes with linearity and road frontage. All the houses in rural Ireland could be situated in a way that would not be obtrusive in a visual way. County councils and local authorities must take ownership of this aspect.
When I was a member of Galway County Council priority was given to people whose permanent dwelling would be in the countryside. Even though we were in a tourist area, priority was given to the sons, daughters, nephews and nieces of landholders who were going to settle down, live permanently in the area and commute to their jobs, or to someone working and living in the area who, like myself, came from outside but was permanently resident in the community. If we develop reasonable planning policies – it cannot be a totally open door and those from the west coast understand what I am saying – and work together to come up with a coherent vision of where planning should go, we can accommodate houses.
I do not subscribe to the arguments about septic tanks and eutrophication. We spend huge money in towns and cities providing sewage treatment plants, and rightly so. We must bear 100% of the cost for the citizens who avail of the service. Why can we not consider the possibility in a conceptual way of developing the technology and providing funding so that one-off houses do not become a blight on the landscape in those terms? The solutions are in our hands.
This debate has been incredibly useful from my point of view. It reinforces my belief that what I have been working towards since becoming Minister mirrors the consensus among people living in rural Ireland as to the real rural issues. I will take great heart from tonight in pushing ahead with the agenda I outlined in the beginning.
When is it proposed to sit again?
Tomorrow morning at 10.30 a.m.