Skip to main content
Normal View

Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 21 Mar 2002

Vol. 169 No. 13

Communications Regulation Bill, 2002: Order for Second Stage. - Communications Regulation Bill, 2002: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I am pleased to introduce the Communications Regulation Bill, 2002, to the House.

The main purposes of the Bill are to create a commission for communications regulations; to dissolve the Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation and transfer its functions to the commission; to increase substantially penalties for breaches of licence conditions by operators; and to provide for the improved management of public road openings for the purpose of laying telecommunications infrastructure.

Before dealing with the details of the Bill I will outline the reasons for its introduction. The electronic communications sector has been experiencing a period of unprecedented change. During the 1990s, developments in technology, the Internet and in telecommunications services, as well as market liberalisation, enhanced the importance of the sector for economic and social development. The realisation that the sector was an indispensable building block for the development of the information society meant that it became an issue of public policy as well as a commercial opportunity. There has been substantial investment in the sector and, more recently, there has been a downturn in this investment. Confidence in the commercial health of the sector has been severely dented, but work on realising the vision of the information society must continue.

The electronic communications sector remains an important building block for the development of the information society. We need a communications sector which provides competitively priced products and services to all consumers. This should be done in a way that enables operators to make a reasonable return on their investment so that they can continue to invest in the sector. They must continue to find new ways of meeting the needs of consumers in a cost effective way. The best way to achieve a vibrant electronic communication sector like this is to have effective competition among operators. This is a situation where a number of operators are competing against each other to win customers and meet their needs and where customers can switch from one operator to another when they find a lower price available or better quality on offer.

The regulatory framework under which operators carry out their business has an important role to play in making this happen. For example, operators need to have low barriers to enter the market, such as the easy ability to get the facilities they need at wholesale level at a reasonable price to enable them offer services at retail level. However, the reality can be different. It is a feature of the electronic communications sector that operators need to obtain facilities from their major competitor to compete against that competitor. There is a natural tendency, therefore, for the major competitor to protect its own competitive situation. One of the key roles for regulation of the electronic communications sector is to ensure fair competition among the operators in this situation.

It may be asked why we still need such regulation over three years after full liberalisation of the sector. The reason is that there are still substantial differences in market power between operators and competition could be inhibited if there was no regulatory framework in place. Some operators continue to be dominant and abuse of that dominant position needs to be prevented. While competition laws and the powers of the Competition Authority are in place to address abuses of a dominant market position, those powers are normally invoked only after there has been a claim or evidence of an abuse. The regulatory framework for the electronic communications sector complements existing competition law by preventing abuse from happening in the first place. It is a valuable tool in a sector such as communications, where time is important. We all want to see the benefits of competition and the development of vibrant information society services sooner rather than later.

Another reason we still need specific regulation is to protect the interests of users. We have moved relatively quickly from a situation of monopoly to full liberalisation and competition. In the monopoly era the counterpart to the existing exclusive privilege of providing telecommunications services was the obligation to meet the reasonable needs of all users in the country, wherever located, at an affordable price. A concern that may be expressed is that new operators may take customers from the former monopoly operator in low cost areas, leaving the former monopoly operator to supply customers in the high cost areas. A related concern expressed has been that in trying to address those threats, the former monopoly operator would raise prices charged to vulnerable consumers, who therefore would not be able to find an alternative supplier at a cheaper price. However, it is the function of the regulatory framework to protect consumer interests in this area and, notwithstanding privatisation and liberalisation, this role will continue.

The task of regulating the communications sector lies with the Director of Telecommunications Regulation, Etain Doyle. I took up office on Thursday, 26 June 1997 and on Monday, 1 July 1997, she took up her post, for which she had been interviewed some months earlier. We were both new to our job and we have fared differently. It has been an interesting time for us both. Whatever else might be said, there is a telecommunications regulator, an aviation regulator and an electricity regulator. I have one philosophy for regulators: leave them alone and they will leave you alone. That is the way business can be done. It is meant to be done independently. It is not meant to be done on the basis where the political or administrative head can decide, at random, to run riot through the regulator's activities and pick and choose those in which he or she wishes to become involved.

Without having met the communications regulator I decided that, if a regulator has been established by law to act independently, then independent he or she should be and there should be no interference in his or her work. However, the burden of work is too much for one person. Ms Doyle has managed it expertly over the past five years but from now there will be three regulators operating under the umbrella of the commission. That is a good thing.

The functions of regulating the telecommunications sector, broadcasting transmission systems and managing the radio frequency spectrum were assigned to the Director of Telecommunications Regulation with effect from 30 June 1997. The functions of the office now encompass three areas: regulation of the electronic communications sector, encompassing both telecommunications and broadcasting transmission systems; regulation of the postal sector; and the management of the radio frequency spectrum.

The past five years in which the director and her office have carried out their functions have been challenging and I pay tribute to her and her staff for their achievements over that period. The challenges they have faced included the need to put in place all of the necessary measures to enable the successful implementation of full liberalisation from 1 December 1998, following my decision to bring forward the ending of the derogation on full liberalisation from 1 January 2000 to 1 December 1998. The measures which it was necessary to put in place included a licensing framework for new operators, an equitable telephone numbering system and the rights and obligations governing interconnection between Eircom's telecommunications network and the facilities of other operators.

I now turn to the reasons why we are proposing changes to the structure for the regulation of the communications sector. I initiated a consultation process that resulted in the publication of a paper in March 2000, Governance and Accountability in the Regulatory Process: Policy Proposals. Among the issues which I have considered, taking into account the comments received in the public consultation, are the composition of reglatory authorities, the terms and conditions governing their appointment, their period of office, decision making processes and the financial and functional accountability of regulatory authorities to the Oireachtas, the Minister and the public. The Bill provides for the implementation of proposals contained in the policy document.

Regarding the composition of regulatory authorities, I considered the relative merits and draw backs of an individual regulator and regulatory board and decided that, as a general rule, a regulatory authority should comprise three members. As stated in the governance and accountability policy document, many of the decisions to be made by the regulatory authority are significant for those involved in the regulated industries and for the economy as a whole. This is particularly the case in relation to the communications sector, where there has been a substantial growth in the regulatory workload and the tasks and rulings which have to be implemented have become increasingly complex and qualitative.

The existing legislative framework for telecommunications, which is based on European law, was designed primarily to manage the transition from monopoly to competition. Therefore, it was focused on the creation of a competitive market and the rights of new entrants. The market is now changing with ever-increasing speed in terms of market developments, in particular the convergence between telecommunications, broadcasting and IT sectors, evolution in technology and changes in user demand. The balancing of different interests, not only among industry players and between the industry and consumers, but also between the short-term and long-term economic and social interests of the State often requires that difficult judgment calls have to be made. A three-person commission would be in a better position than an individual to bear the burden of making such decisions.

This is no reflection on the performance of Etain Doyle as director. Again, I wish to acknowledge her achievements and welcome the fact that this Bill enables her to complete her term of office as a commissioner, bringing the benefit of her experience to the commission.

Regarding accountability, the transfer of regulatory functions from Ministers to independent statutory bodies requires that there be clear accountability mechanisms, without compromising their functional independence. In relation to the Director of Telecommunications Regulation, a number of provisions ensures appropriate accountability is in place, either in the existing legislation or through practice. This Bill proposes formally to put in place appropriate accountability mechanisms without compromising the independence of the commission.

Apart from reforming the organisational structure for the regulation of communications the Bill provides for the reform of the framework governing access to public roads for the construction of telecommunications networks. The growth of the electronic communications sector in recent years is one of the great success stories of the economy. If there has been one down side to this phenomenal growth, it has been that the laying of new electronic communications infrastructure has required an unprecedented volume of road openings. This has placed additional strain on traffic in towns and cities.

The Bill seeks to ensure that there is minimum disruption to the public and the environment dur ing the building of electronic communications infrastructure. Local authorities will be given increased powers to co-ordinate and control road openings by telecommunications companies. The new commission will also be able to bring about agreements on the sharing of electronic communications infrastructure and impose conditions on sharing agreements.

The sharing of electronic communications infrastructure will reduce the need for companies to open roads and lay their networks, making it much easier for new and existing companies to install such infrastructure. This should enable the delivery of state-of-the-art electronic communications services which are essential for the development of the information society.

Following a review of the provisions of the general scheme of the Bill and conscious of the necessity to focus on the key provisions to be enacted in the limited Oireachtas time available, I decided that some of its provisions can be more appropriately progressed through alternative legislative means. Accordingly, some provisions in the general scheme have not been included in the text of the Bill as published. The provisions relate to control of market power, appeals against regulatory decisions, certain provisions relating to the management of the radio frequency and telecommunications fraud.

Regarding the control of market power of electronic communications operators, these provisions are covered by the new European regulatory framework for the electronic communications sector, which consists of a package of five European Parliament and Council Directives as well as a decision. Four of the directives and the decision were adopted recently and the fifth directive is expected to be adopted later this year. These provisions will be transposed into Irish law by means of regulations under the European Communities Acts.

Regarding appeals against decisions made by the proposed commission, the advice of the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel to the Government was that there were legal policy difficulties involved in the insertion into the Bill of a single procedure for appeals against regulatory decisions. Related appeals processes are set out in various pieces of primary and secondary legislation. As many of these decision-making powers will be revised in the transposition of the new directives into Irish law by means of regulations to be made under the European Communities Acts, the transposition will provide the opportunity to put in place a consistent and appropriate appeals process. In the meantime, the rights of appeal to the courts as set out in the existing legislation apply.

Certain provisions relating to management of the radio frequency spectrum will be dealt with in a separate Bill to reform the Wireless Telegraphy Acts, the preparation of which is under way within my Department. In relation to telecommunications fraud, I believe that the provisions of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001, will largely cater for the type of conduct which the general scheme sought to prevent.

Regarding the remaining provisions of the general scheme which are now included in the Bill as published, the main changes made relate to the enforcement provisions. I understand that substantial constitutional and legal policy issues arise from the measures proposed in the general scheme to enhance the ability of the commission to enforce regulatory decisions. One of the main legislative provisions for enforcement is the creation of offences with the power to prosecute on a summary basis given to the statutory body concerned. The maximum penalty for breach of a summary offence can be quite small. Substantial penalties can be imposed where indictable offences are created but only the Director of Public Prosecutions may initiate proceedings for breach of indictable offences.

Many of the offences applicable in the communications sector derive from regulations made under the European Communities Acts, transposing European directives into Irish law. Only summary offences can be created in regulations under the European Communities Acts. We considered whether this Bill could create indictable offences for breaches of obligations already specified in separate regulations but we were advised that such a provision would require substantial legal analysis by the Attorney General. Accordingly, it was not open for me to proceed at that time with some of the enforcement measures proposed in the general scheme. However, as previously indicated, the Bill does include a provision enabling prosecution on indictment of breaches of licence conditions, with a maximum fine of €1,000,000.

Since publication of the Bill, my Department has had further discussions with the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel and as a result I hope to move some amendments on Committee Stage which will advance the position regarding enforcement. In addition, my Department will, in consultation with the Attorney General's office, review the general question of enforcement in the light of the new regulatory framework for electronic communications to be laid down in accordance with the new directives.

I am confident that the provisions of the Bill give a sound economic and regulatory framework within which the commission will work. In framing the legislation and in line with the requirements for introducing new statutory measures, my Department carried out a public consultation on the proposals and has had substantial discussions with interested parties and with relevant Government Departments.

The Bill is separated into five main parts. Part I contains standard provisions covering the Short Title, interpretations, laying of orders and regulations before both Houses, etc. Part 2 deals with the establishment of the Commission for Communications Regulation. Part 3 details the enforcement provisions applicable to the new commission. Part 4 deals with transitional provisions arising out of the transformation of the Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation into the Commission for Communications Regulation. Part 5 caters for electronic communications infrastructure, road works and sharing.

Part 1 contains standard provisions in relation to the Short Title of the Bill, the interpretation of words and phrases used, procedures for laying orders and regulations before the Houses of the Oireachtas, the establishment day and the usual provision for expenses.

Part 2, sections 6 to 39, contains sections directly related to the establishment of the Commission for Communications Regulation and are similar to many found in other legislation establishing such regulatory bodies. There are provisions dealing with the transfer of functions from the director to the new commission, annual reports and accounts and the format of such accounts, the manner in which commissioners are appointed, as well as the chairman and staff of the commission. There is provision for the commission to account for its activities if called before a committee of one or both Houses of the Oireachtas and a proposed requirement for the commission to produce regular strategy statements in addition to a code of financial management.

The functions of the commission are set out in section 10. These are: to ensure compliance by undertakings with obligations in relation to the supply of and access to electronic communications services, networks and associated facilities; to manage the radio frequency spectrum; to ensure compliance by providers of postal services with relevant obligations; to investigate complaints regarding the supply of and access to electronic communications services and networks; and to ensure compliance in relation to the placing on the market of telecommunications equipment.

Section 12 sets out the objectives of the commission in carrying out its functions. This is an important new provision, setting out in legislation the key principles to guide the commission in its activities. Section 13 is another important provision, enabling the Minister to issue policy directions to the commission. This provision extends the scope of an existing power in the Telecommunications (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, 1996, in relation to the radio frequency spectrum to enable policy directions to be issued in relation to the electronic communications sector and the postal sector. In order that the functional independence of the commission is not compromised, this power to issue directions is limited to issues of policy and must not relate to individual undertakings or persons. In addition, the Minister must publish the proposed direction not less than three weeks in advance.

Provisions in relation to the composition of the commission, its chairperson and its staff are dealt with in sections 14 to 27. These provisions follow recently enacted legislation establishing similar regulatory bodies. Section 20 allows the commission to appoint staff and provides for the transfer of staff of the director to the commission. Sections 26 and 27 allow for the creation of superannuation schemes for both members and staff of the commission to be agreed by the Minister with the consent of the Minister for Finance in line with the normal rules for these matters.

Sections 28 to 30 provide for the resources and revenues of the commission. The Minister may make advances to the commission and the commission may also borrow money subject to the consent of the Minister and the Minister for Finance. The main provision in relation to funding is the commission's power to impose a levy on the regulated entities, that is, electronic communications providers and providers of postal services. Provision also exists for the treatment of surplus income from year to year.

Section 35 provides for co-operation mechanisms in respect of the consideration of any matter which should be regulated by both the commission and the Competition Authority. The provisions in this regard are consistent with the recommendations set out in Governance and Accountability in the Regulatory Process. In view of the fact that similar provisions in relation to co-operation between the Competition Authority and statutory bodies are contained in the Competition Bill, 2001, I am considering whether section 35 of the Bill should be dropped.

Section 36 provides for the commission to take over responsibility for drawing up and maintaining the radio frequency plan which has heretofore been the responsibility of the director. Section 37 provides that the Minister may specify public service requirements in relation to certain types of licences or authorisations. This is a re-enactment of a provision contained in the 1996 Act.

Part 3, sections 40 to 47, deals with the enforcement powers of the new commission. In addition to the usual provisions relating to authorised officers, section 46 provides for prosecution on indictment for breaches of licence conditions, with a maximum fine of €1,000,000, increased from £1,500. Furthermore, section 47 provides for a maximum fine of €1,000,000 to be imposed on a person in breach of the price cap provisions of the Telecommunications (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, 1996. As I mentioned before, I hope to table some amendments on Committee Stage which will advance the position regarding enforcement.

Part 4, sections 48 to 52, inclusive, contains standard transitional provisions relating to the transfer of property and liabilities of the director to the commission, the preservation of certain continuing contracts, the adaptation of certain documents, the continuation of certain matters by the commission and pending legal proceedings.

Part 5, sections 53 to 61, inclusive, provides for the reform of the legislative framework governing opening of public roads by telecommunications operators. In particular, section 54 provides that operators will be required to obtain the consent of local authorities which are responsible for roads in their areas before opening public roads to lay telecommunications networks.

Section 58 provides for the new commission to bring about agreements on the sharing of electronic communications infrastructure and to impose conditions in sharing agreements. Currently the director may only intervene in sharing negotiations at the request of one of the parties. This Bill enables network operators to inform the commission of any negotiations on infrastructure they enter into and it empowers the commission to intervene if agreement is not reached. I am confident the Bill will seek to ensure that road authorities will be able properly to control access to public highways by telecommunications operators without unduly inhibiting the installation of telecommunications infrastructure around the country.

The communications sector is an important contributor to Ireland's objective of being at the vanguard of the information society and electronic commerce. In order to ensure that we have an efficient and effective communications sector we need to have a regulatory framework for the sector which will maximise effective competition in the shortest possible timeframe. This Bill will set out a clear accountability framework for the new body in relation to Government, the Oireachtas, industry and the public. The framework for consents by road authorities set out in the Bill should provide for clarity and fairness as well as a consistent approach throughout the country. I therefore ask the House to facilitate the early passage of this Bill into law. I commend the Bill to the House.

I welcome the Minister to the House. I also thank her for her overview and speedy delivery of her speech. I must confess that I have been thrown in at the deep end because I am standing-in for my colleague, Senator Caffrey, who was called away on urgent business.

As I understand, the main purpose of this Bill is to create a commission for communications regulation, dissolve the office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation and transfer its functions to the new commission. It will also increase penalties for the commission of certain offences and provide for the improved management of the opening of public roads for the purpose of laying telecommunications infrastructure.

The Minister made reference to Etain Doyle and the good job that she has been doing and I am glad to note that Ms Doyle is not being made redundant immediately.

I have reconfirmed her position.

She is to continue as a commissioner. I do not think that the Minister has said for how long, but Ms Doyle is to serve out her period of office. The Minister has decided that there will be three commissioners and I am sure that she has taken good counsel on that issue.

The Minister spoke of the abuse of a dominant position and we would all concur that this can no longer be tolerated. We are moving into a new era. The Competition Authority and other bodies act as safeguards to ensure that there can no longer be abuse of dominant positions.

I welcome much that the Minister has said. It is only right that penalties imposed for breach of the regulations should be severe. I am glad the Minister is providing for proper co-ordination in respect of the opening and closing of public roads. All too often, we see that a road that has only recently been re-opened is closed again while some other authority is digging it up. I often wondered if local authorities were very slack in their approach to the digging up of public roads. I hope that this aspect of the Bill will be effective.

While I accept that the Minister's intentions are good, the work of the commission may be slowed down by the existence of three commissioners. It may be necessary to have three commissioners, but I do not see how it will contribute to the speeding up of the process, which is the Minister's intention. The Bill should allow for three members with collective decision-making powers and a chairperson with a casting vote. Of necessity there will be many occasions where the three members, in addition to having briefed themselves well on whatever situation they are dealing with at the time, will be in disagreement with one another. As we all know, things are sometimes of necessity postponed. People decide to take time out to reflect on an issue before coming back to it at a later stage and hopefully bringing fresh minds to bear. That will slow things down somewhat.

On the issue of enforcement, we again need to be on guard. This measure may not be as effective as in other areas the Minister referred to, such as the aviation, electricity and gas sectors. Enforcement could be less effective in this instance because, if I have interpreted the Bill correctly, a file would have to go to the Director of Public Prosecutions. The DPP's office has a great habit of sitting on things, in some cases for considerable periods of time, possibly even a year. Offenders would be well aware of the delays in the DPP's office. Human nature being what it is, I fear they may decide to carry on offending regardless. I am not convinced the enforcement measures the Minister has outlined in the Bill are adequate to meet the criteria she has in mind.

There is no mention of broadband or how the roadblocks in the broadband system are to be overcome. The regulator has been arguing with telecommunications providers for over two years regarding unbundling the loop and other issues. I worry also about that. What transpires in practice could run counter to the Minister's intention. I have had only a cursory look at the issue, having been thrown in at the deep end. My interpretation of it, however, is that there is a danger here of events not according with the Minister's intent and that in practice there will be delays.

The Minister for Finance is mentioned constantly in the Bill—

He has been here in the House. He is pre-eminent in all our activities.

The point I am making is that the office of the Minister for Finance is so dominant and appears in so many sections. It appears one cannot go to the toilet without asking the permission of the master, the Minister for Finance.

That could be interesting.

It might be but the Minister knows the point I am making. It struck me forcefully this morning as I read through the Bill.

Sections 19 and 25 also stuck in my mind upon my reading, and I would like to compare them. Section 19 precludes for a period of one year a former commissioner from holding any other office, paid employment or consultancy in which he or she might use or disclose any confidential information acquired while in office as a commissioner. Section 25 places obligations on commissioners and persons employed by them to disclose any pecuniary or other interest in a matter being considered by the commission, and outlines procedures which will be adopted where a conflict of interest arises.

It is long overdue that we should have guidelines, or preferably legal directives, for people who have held any sort of responsible office. There was a story in the past week regarding a senior official in a local authority who was dealing with developers, large-scale developments and so on. Then, the week after retiring, he takes up employment with one of these people. This smacks of an inside track, knowing the system and how to get around it. I welcome the provisions outlined by the Minister, but we should have a general rule, enforced by law, that people leaving such responsible positions in State or local authority employment be prevented for a period from turning from gamekeeper into poacher, so to speak. Sadly, that has happened all too often in our society.

As a people we have not had sufficient regard for situations of conflict of interest. We all know as public representatives that sensitive matters are sometimes brought to our attention, with people making representations to us even when they know well we could not touch them with a barge pole. This point is not sufficiently understood.

I wish the Minister well with the Bill – all the better if she can improve it as it goes through both Houses. I welcome the Bill and accept the Minister's intent, but I think it may be subverted in the instances I have outlined.

I welcome the Minister to the Seanad and welcome the fact she is initiating this very important Bill in the House. I am heartened by the ability of Senator Coghlan to grapple with technological terminology like unbundling loops, spectrums, spectra and so on. I must confess to my total illiteracy regarding this terminology. I express my gratitude to those who tried to address my inadequate brain in getting around it. If the fruits of their labours are proved inadequate it is no reflection on them but on me.

A major issue is that we are in a new era now. Until to a few years ago very strategic sectors of our economy were managed by public sector supervision and control. Now we must confront the new era and culture which is moving rapidly away from a controlled, regulated market to an open, free market and liberalisation. As we know, three agencies have been set up to deal with these issues – one in the telecommunications area, one in aviation and one in energy. Since these are key strategic areas of the economy, much attention has focused on them over the years and rightly so. These sectors are important to the economy and can impact seriously on our economic development.

The agency we are dealing with in this Bill, the ODTR, was set up under legislation passed in 1997 and started operations the following year. Due to the speed of developments in this area it was supposed to move towards full liberalisation in 2000, but the Minister accelerated that further, bringing the process forward by ten to 13 months. That target was reached and matters have moved on since.

The Bill takes account of the many developments that have taken place. There is much more work for the ODTR now and that work has become more complex. The market is evolving rapidly and is becoming wider, all of which brings attendant problems such as an increasing workload and increased complexity of the rulings the ODTR must make and implement. The Bill addresses those issues on an interim basis – the Minister will agree – as the market is changing rapidly. Even as we speak there are innovators in research and development coming up with new ideas. It would be unrealistic and naive to think we could produce a blueprint for the next 20 to 40 years. This Bill puts a framework in place which will deal more proficiently and professionally with the roadblocks and other problems to which the Minister and Senator Coghlan referred. The Bill will enhance the Minister's powers of policy direction in the sector, but she stressed that a proper balance must be struck between the needs of the consumer, arising out of public policy, and the sacrosanct independence of the regu lator she is establishing and whose needs the Bill addresses.

The revolution in the variety and capacity of communications brought to us by new technology has transformed the country's potential for economic and social development. We have a tremendous record over the last two decades, particularly in IT, where huge production has taken place. Key players in that sector have invested hugely in the economy and the fruits of that are becoming obvious in the telecommunications market itself. Innovation is also driven by consumer demand and that situation is evolving rapidly.

The guiding principle for the ODTR is that it must ensure fair play without dictating how players will operate in the market. It must provide a mechanism whereby Irish and European law for the delivery of quality services at competitive prices can operate. The big question being raised by the media and experts – God knows there are as many experts as participants in this field – is whether this new era of competition is working. It is only to be expected that the mechanisms in the ODTR for freeing up the market have come in for criticism. We hear of competition being put on hold and deregulation of the Irish market limping along as well as experts warning about telecommunications shakeouts in coming years. It would be unprecedented, given the rapidly changing environment, if those criticisms were not coming forward. The surprise is that there are not more of them. Taken one by one the criticisms can be disposed of easily. It is important to bear in mind that in this evolving situation criticisms will be directed at the ODTR since it is the office of the independent regulator trying to regulate licensing in a rapidly changing market.

One of the key areas in competition is access to the market itself. The Minister spoke of the large operators and one of those has a very dominant position in the market when it comes to infrastructure. The difficulty for the ODTR, again referred to by Senator Coghlan, is how to move forward to a position where fair play obtains and the interests of consumers can be met in terms of price of access. We are currently aware of the haggling going on between Eircom and the ODTR in terms of the prices the ODTR set. It set a price it felt was fair and reasonable in the circumstances and which was in the best interests of consumers and competition. As we know, a court hearing on that issue is pending but in the interim the price set by the ODTR is the one that obtains.

As the market takes off in Ireland we are not just seeing the liberalisation of the market but we also a significant and sharp move from what was traditionally a large narrowband network to demand for a widespread broadband network. Again, the Minister and Senator Coghlan referred to this point. To be fair, great attention is being given to the development of competition in existing broadband markets such as lease lines and the development of newer broadband solutions, such as unbundling the local loop, fixed wireless access or satellite use. That must be emphasised in answering the critics, some of whom are vocal, that no country has yet developed its broadband network so extensively that Ireland can avail of the expertise derived from the learning curves of those countries in order to address the issues we face. That speaks for itself. This market is changing so rapidly that it is very difficult to come up with a blueprint from any country and say it applies to us. In effect, we are ploughing a lone furrow and it is important to emphasise that in the face of criticism from those who claim to be Einsteins in this field. I would not demand that the Minister be an Einstein or that she should impose conditions of Einstein-like proportions on the regulator. We are in a constantly changing situation and we hope the evolution of the sector will be of benefit. The best expertise available is being applied to monitor and regulate the issues.

I wish to raise some issues for the Minister to consider on Committee Stage, such as the publication of licences. I am not competent to comment on this definitively but some participants in the industry have expressed the view that when licences are issued by the ODTR or, in future, the commission, those licences should be published, including the details and conditions attached to them. In this way a level playing field would be created for everybody – participants in the industry and those who hope to participate. There would be no defaulting, though that would have implications I do not want to go into, and everyone would be seen as starting from the same point and having to comply in the same way. If that refers to infrastructure or other aspects of the licence, publication of the licence would put that into the public arena. The Minister can consider this on Committee Stage.

When an application is made to the ODTR or, in future, the commission, to allow use of a part of the spectrum which is not specified in the radio frequency plan, the commission or the Minister should be able to direct a change in the plan so that the new use can be taken into account. It should also be taken into account with immediate effect. I understand from advice I have taken that there could be serious problems with this. While I am not competent to comment on it, I am the funnel through which these concerns can be laid before the Minister. I understand the words "immediate effect" could have serious implications. I will not pursue that aspect of the matter other than to ask the Minister whether the Bill, as drafted, gives adequate power to direct the commission to make changes to the radio frequency plan. If not, is there a possibility this could be accommodated? Would there be value or merit in making such an accommodation? If the answer to these questions is "Yes", is the inclusion of the words "immediate effect" feasible?

The Senator is very well briefed.

I think compliments should go to people in public and private areas.

The Senator masks his modesty well.

He bears it well.

The Minister has confused me now.

The third case refers to the space between two connecting points. The concern outlined to me was that while the Bill provides very adequately for wire cable, in the case of wireless, which I am competently and professional informed means there is no wire cable but rather a microwave beam, it does not appear to make adequate provision. If not, the Minister might consider on Committee Stage that adequate provision should be made for the same conditions to apply to wireless – in other words, microwave beam – as apply to wire cable. I am not sure if the Bill falls down in this regard and would like the Minister to look at the matter before Committee Stage to see if this is the case and, if feasible, to meet the concerns of the industry in relation to it.

The question of road openings has been raised. In recent years there has been rapid development in the installation of electronic communications infrastructure. The laying of cable has taken off at an enormous pace. However, the laying of cable under public roads has generated unreal controversy and anger in communities in which the effects have been felt. In many instances, road openings by telecommunications operators and other utilities cause huge traffic disruption, to which the Minister referred. Some of the operators concerned seem to operate totally outside the law. They move into an area willy-nilly and without notice and simply start to dig up a road, bring traffic to a halt causing massive tailbacks and disruption. When they have finished digging, tunnelling or drilling late into the night, wreaking havoc in communities and housing estates, they clean up, fill in or back fill and in comes another operator. They have been described as bandits, cowboys and so on which I am sure is very unfair, but I am merely articulating the views of communities in which this process has had a terrible effect.

In the communities I represent the impact has been most unacceptable. One can imagine, therefore, their relief and the welcome I want to give to the Minister's decision to change all this. I know operators had permission to work under certain restrictions, but in my experience and in those communicated to me, the restrictions were totally useless and ineffective. When confronted, managers held their hands up in the air and pleaded total helplessness. I see the Minister has decided to repeal the existing rights of telecommunications operators and replace them with a requirement for the operators concerned to obtain the consent of road authorities. That is to be warmly welcomed. The new arrangements will enable road authorities to properly control access to public highways without unduly impeding the development of the infrastructure which must be provided. A balance has to be struck between the needs of the economy, in terms of building up infrastructure, and those of communities.

Many features of the Bill are welcome. The Minister did not presume to tell us she was going to resolve the problems in a market that is changing day by day, hour by hour and minute by minute, but, nevertheless, the frameworks she is putting in place and the structures she is changing will be effective and are welcome. They will not relieve or eliminate all the road blocks or other blockages and deal with all the spectrums or loops, but I am sure they will go a long way to balancing the quality and effectiveness of the works of the new commission.

I welcome the Minister and the Bill, but, like Senator Coghlan, one has to have reservations about whether it will speed up the process under which we operate. The Minister has made a huge effort to push forward new technology in her Department. That is the reason I am quite sure the aim of the Bill in changing from one regulator to a commission is to speed up the process, particularly in regard to the introduction of the broadband network. However, I wonder whether it will do so. Like Senator Coghlan, I wonder whether it will be slowed down and taken over given that the Minister for Finance is so heavily involved. Perhaps, if he is well occupied in the other House, we may be able do something with the Bill on Committee Stage to remove his heavy hand from various sections.

The Minister for Finance seems to have a more powerful role in every part of the public service. I do not know if the Minister, the Cathaoirleach or other Senators noticed two letters published in The Irish Times last week relating to the Freedom of Information Act as it affects the Department of Health and Children. Since the Government took office – I know Senator Liam Fitzgerald has his views on hospital consultants – we have been trying to work towards a consultant provided service, or so we thought. I was a member of Comhairle na nOspidéal when we brought this forward. We were appointing more consultants and trying to cut back on the number of non-consultant hospital doctors. The next thing we see is a letter in the newspaper dated early January from the Department of Finance stating a consultant provided service is not necessarily the way we will go. There was an anguished reply from the Secretary General of the Department of Health and Children. The Department of Finance and, I presume, the Minister seem to be stepping in when other Departments are trying to make progress. The manpower task force has been proceeding on the basis that there will be a consultant provided service. Comhairle na nOspidéal has been doing the same. I can see the same thing happening in this case.

As the Minister said, the commission is to be independent. I was delighted she gave such praise to the regulator, Ms Etain Doyle, who has done a tremendous job with good humour, especially since she has had her own problems with the Department of Finance. The Minister may remember a big fight last year when the issuing of one licence was considerably slowed down.

The Minister for Finance, as far as I can remember, wanted a high minimum fee while the regulator wanted to make sure there was coverage throughout the country. The process was delayed by about one year until they reached a settlement. This may happen more frequently in the case of this legislation.

The commission will be independent because it will raise its own money. I notice it can provide for borrowings for which the Minister will have to give permission, but it is the Minister for Finance who will have his hand around the Minister's neck in giving the permission. Did the regulator ever borrow from the Minister? I have no idea about this. Was the regulator able to sustain her department with her own levies? Why will the commission not be able to do this rather than have situations such as that outlined in section 13 which deals with directions of the Minister? As Senator Coghlan said, the Minister appears to be able to give all the directions apart from awarding individual licences.

It worries me enormously that section 13(4)(b) states: “.the means by which entitlements to use such spectrum may be assigned (including appropriate fees), and in giving such direction the Minister shall have regard to principles of good frequency management.” That is fair enough, but the next subsection states: “A direction under subsection (1) relating to fees referred to in subsection (4)(b) may only be given with the consent of the Minister for Finance.” In other words, the Minister for Finance will control competitions. That is not good. We should, therefore, remove the subsection in question because the Minister for Finance will control competitions, not the commission, as a result of which it will not be independent.

It is quite bizarre that the commission will have its own money and pay its staff, but section 20(3)(a) states that the Minister and the Minister for Finance shall determine the number, grading, remuneration and other conditions of service of staff to be appointed by the office of the commission. That should be taken out of the Bill. It is only numbers at the moment, but it will not do. The commission might decide it wants six very senior people and no one else. It might decide it wants two very senior people and half a dozen consultants. Control of that cannot be left with the Minister for Finance. If that is the case, how could one consider the commission independent? We can change this – I am sure the Minister for Finance will never find out. Does the Minister think he has spies here?

I am afraid they have just looked in this very minute.

We are speaking to a very discreet audience.

They have spies all the time.

I am sure the schoolchildren who have joined us in the Gallery will not tell the Minister a word.

We must show some common sense. I note the Minister will appoint three people to the commission. Some of the other commissions to which three members were appointed, such as those dealing with aviation and electricity, are still functioning with only one. I do not see why extra people should be appointed unless they are necessary. I do not think extra people should be appointed just for the sake of it. It could lead to bad feeling if there are only two commissioners and the chairperson has the casting vote.

The Minister mentioned the postal services and they are extraordinarily important. I would like to hear something about efficiency. There is nothing in the Bill about the postal services having to be efficient. That is extremely important. I like the public service element of this Bill and it is important that the public service in the postal services is well looked after. I am sure they will not hear a word I say, but our postal service is not too bad. I do not want them to find that out. Neither do I want anyone from Iarnród Éireann to travel on South West Trains in England because they would come back and tell us that we have a marvellous service. We should keep a discreet silence on some of these things. It is important to emphasise efficiency in the postal service.

Like Senator Coghlan, I wonder why matters have to go to the DPP. Could the commission not be in a position to pursue these things themselves? The DPP will be dealing with appalling cases such as murders and rapes and will have to give priority to such cases above fining various telecommunications networks. Can that be changed? Surely the Minister for Finance would not mind that; he might even give us a bit of leeway.

I agree with Senator Coghlan's point about the staff and the commission having to declare pecuniary benefits. Would it not be better if they were excluded from having shares in any companies with which they deal? We have run into a great deal of trouble in recent years with people who are involved in running trials for pharmaceutical companies. At one stage they were allowed to have only a very small shareholding in those companies. In America the size of the allowable shareholding has been increased. Last year the very reputable New England Journal of Medicine said it was now almost impossible to find people who were sufficiently disassociated from pharmaceutical companies to overview such trials. Conflict of interest has become a serious matter in many spheres. It is a matter that we should consider again.

The Minister is trying to forward the implementation of broadband. Senator Coghlan explained the unbundling of the local loop so well that I will not go through it again.

Thank you.

It is one of the seven mysteries of the world.

Maybe it is like the third secret of Fatima. However, we have been very slow to do it. Senator Fitzgerald said there are not many countries from which we can take an example, but several people have raised it with me over some time.

Some areas were excluded from the Bill and maybe we should try to include them. One of those is a flat access rate to the Internet. Fortunately, my children are old enough to pay for themselves when they use the Internet, but this is a matter in which the mothers of Ireland have a great interest. Can we tackle this now? Is there some reason for excluding that from the Bill? It is a very important issue.

I was contacted about mobile telephone number portability. While it is not such a difficulty for private users, it apparently causes many problems for business users. If they transfer to another mobile telephone company, they can only retain the latter part of their number. Naturally we do not want anything that impedes business. This causes more problems for small businesses than large businesses. Perhaps it is an issue that could be addressed. I also wish to raise the matter of operators who rent large sections of a mobile network and then go out of business. That seems to be quite a problem and it is not addressed in the Bill.

I welcome the Minister's efforts in this very challenging area. I agree with Senator Fitzgerald that we do not have much legislation from other EU countries to consider. On the other hand, there is no reason that we should not forge the way. We have done a great deal of work with information technology in Ireland.

Perhaps the Minister will take notice of the problem of spam e-mail. I have raised this before but no one seems to take any notice of it. Unsolicited and repulsive messages are becoming increasingly common. The heads of the department of computer science and data protection at Trinity College have contacted me about this matter. It must be a really serious problem for them to have contacted me. They would not have done so if it was a frivolous issue. I do not think the Department of Public Enterprise decided that people would have to opt out of getting such e-mails.

It was with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and it had a distinct view on it.

I know it held a point of view but I did not agree with it. It would be much better if one had to opt in to such e-mails. This problem is causing great annoyance. The Minister may have to take a tough line with a Minister other than the Minister for Finance. I am sure we will be able to aid the Minister in removing some of the Minister for Finance's influence on Committee Stage. I congratulate the Minister on bringing this Bill before the House.

I am very glad to be back in the Seanad. I welcome the generous nature with which this Bill has been received by all sides of the House. It has been a very interesting debate. One often gets more wisdom here in one hour than in I will not say how many hours in the Dáil.

I thank Senator Coghlan for the generous nature of his contribution to the debate. Both he and Senator Henry raised the issue of three people slowing up the process. I do not know from where this view emanates, although it is in wide circulation. However, it is not realised the amount of work that the regulator, Ms Etain Doyle, and her office have to do. Since the postal business was added to her brief, it has more than doubled in volume and increased in complexity. The many telecommunications companies and their predisposition towards litigation compound the workload. We examined the position in other countries, both smaller and bigger than Ireland, and concluded that a commission of three is best. The most highly skilled and intelligent regulator could not cope alone with the barrage of work that lands on the regulator's desk. Three regulators will work more speedily.

As I indicated before, court cases constitute the main burden of work for Ms Doyle. Senator Coghlan referred to the inclusion of a reference to the Director of Public Prosecutions in the Bill, but I am assured by my advisers that this is a standard provision is such legislation and the Bill does not differ from others.

The Senator also raised the question of the guidelines for those leaving office or taking up employment elsewhere. We include in every piece of legislation a reference to such guidelines. Other Departments do the same. It is important to have them as such persons have a great deal of insider knowledge and it is not ethical that they should use it for personal profit in other employment. This is no reflection on any current regulator, but the guidelines are important nonetheless.

Senator Liam Fitzgerald also made a generous and knowledgeable contribution in which he spoke of the transition from a monopoly to liber alisation, the consequent increasing workload for the ODTR, the policy directions from the Department, whoever may be Minister, and the need for clarity in the different roles of the Minister, the regulator and the market. He recognised the interwoven complexity of these matters and spoke of the need for broadband provision and the publication of licences and details of licence holders. In many cases, the regulator publishes this information, but there is a need, as the Senator indicated, for systematic publication, although sensitive commercial details would be withheld. This issue will be addressed in a forthcoming wireless telegraphy Bill.

Reference was made to an amendment of the radio frequency plan. We expect to do this, either by a directive or by transferring the function to the regulator. Senators also spoke of the lopping of trees that interfere with radio signals. At certain frequencies, obstacles such as trees in the line of a radio signal can interfere with its quality, but we hope the operator will be able to negotiate with the tree owner to deal with this.

It is interesting that while none of us has an intimate knowledge of the technical terms, we are familiar with them. The unbundling of the local loop springs to mind, which Brussels now declares is unimportant after we spent so much effort on it, dealing with submissions and the telecommunications companies which stated if the final loop was unbundled, everything would be all right. That phrase always conjured up for me an image of a baby wrapped up in loops and hoops which was being unbundled to display him or her in all his or her beauty.

Senators Coghlan, Henry and Liam Fitzgerald spoke of the digging up of roads. Everybody wants advanced technology on the doorstep, but no one wants the road dug up to achieve this. There is a middle way, as there is in most matters, in which the Bill's provisions will assist.

I thank Senator Henry, not just for the generous nature of her speech, but also for being questioning. Lest I am not here again before the general election, she does the university panel proud, as do all the Senators their panels. She is regularly here and her contributions are so matter of fact that anyone can respond to them since they touch on all the relevant issues. She was most critical of the heavy hand of the Department of Finance. However, discretion spancels my tongue—

The Minister should speak her mind.

She is free to speak here. The Minister for Finance will never find out.

Discretion is the better part of valour.

Discretion is spancelling my tongue and I do not intend to comment.

We give the Minister full liberty to speak.

The Department of Finance is involved in the Bill with public service pensions, salaries and, of course, licence fees also.

The Minister for Finance is involved in too much.

The Minister for Finance, who is a delight, might not always be the incumbent.

Listen to the Minister now.

I have learnt to work with whoever is the incumbent in the Department of Finance, particularly in my current post where he is part owner and has a say on many issues.

I agree with what the Senator said about the regulator's responsibility for postal services and the need for efficiency, aspects of which are not dealt with in the Bill but will be in a future one. On the flat rate for Internet access, Senator Henry spoke as a parent of children who now earn their own living, as I do, but the rate is enormously expensive. We hope the broadband infrastructure, details of which I sent to everybody and which will be 90% funded by the Government with 10% being put in by the local authorities, will result in very competitive rates. The market will then take over and drive down the price because of that infrastructure being in place.

Mobile telephone number portability is a feature of a European directive which we have agreed to, but the Senator is right that it arises. These issues will be addressed in new directives which have just been adopted in Europe and we will deal with them through the transposition of those directives, which will be laid before the Houses. This is a matter which people talk about frequently but we cannot cover every issue. The Bill deals with three issues – redefining the office of the regulator, the enforcement process and much larger fines, and the opening of the roads in a proper fashion.

On the question of spam mail, the Senator is right that the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment was the lead Department in this regard because it viewed it in terms of a competitive, commercial marketplace. The matter came before our Council meeting as well. In many instances spam mail is obnoxious. One does not wish to get literature on how one can win a million pounds by sending away a form or something equally spurious.

Another matter has a political background to it as well as a spam mail background – I am not talking about those of us who send literature to our constituents. I am talking about matters which impinge upon one's sensitivities and this is something we should examine also. I have been hugely upset in the past 12 months by mail coming to the house addressed to my late husband from institutions like banks and finance houses where he would have had an account in the past. I would have thought these institutions would have knowledge of a death and would have been able to put that information on their computers. Last weekend there were four such letters. When this was raised, it immediately struck a chord with me because of the intimate nature of it but also because we will soon be looking through the register and sending letters to people who may have passed away. That will cause huge distress to people who receive mail addressed to a loved one who has passed away. While the Senator was talking I had the immediate recollection of all that has gone on in that regard and people are justifiably upset about it. I realise some people would not know of a death, but we cannot condone mail being sent from an institution or body addressed to someone who is no longer with that family.

The question of spam mail will be covered by the new data protection directive to which Senator Henry referred, which will be transposed into Irish law in the next year. The commission will have responsibility for implementing this directive and it will do that in a proper fashion. It has been put to me that spam mail should be viewed on the basis that it helps business, but I do not believe it helps business. I do not know what everybody else does with it but I dump it. I live in an apartment in Dublin, quite near to where Senator Henry lives, and the amount of this type of mail that can build up over two or three weeks is enormous, including Chinese take-aways offering to bring dinner to one's door, although one might want that some night. All sorts of other items are delivered also and I hope the directive will address that problem.

Many other issues were raised in the debate and there will be an opportunity on Committee Stage to examine some of them. I thank Senators for their generosity and the openness of their approach.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 26 March 2002.

When is it proposed to sit again?

Tomorrow at 10.30 a.m.

Top
Share