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Seanad Éireann debate -
Friday, 22 Mar 2002

Vol. 169 No. 14

Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, 2002: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I am pleased to introduce the second of two Bills implementing the £850 million social welfare package under budget 2002 to the House. Senators will recall that a separate Bill was enacted in December 2001, giving effect to the substantial increases in weekly social welfare payments from the beginning of January 2002 and to PRSI payments from 1 March this year. This Bill implements a number of key improvements in the social welfare scheme, such as increases in child benefit, improvement in payments for carers and also includes a range of other measures.

The Government is committed to social inclusion and I am proud to say that, since 1997, we have more than fulfilled our commitments in this respect. It is worth reflecting on some of the key achievements in the area of social welfare over the past five years. Overall social welfare spending has increased from £4.5 billion in 1997 to £7.4 billion this year; pensions have increased by 49% for a single person and by 54% for a couple, well ahead of the £100 per week target that was originally set in the action programme; the lowest social welfare rates have increased by 43% for a single person and 48% for a couple; there have been substantial increases in child benefit rates, more than treble what was paid in 1997; significant improvement for carers will result in over 22,000 carers receiving payment in 2002, compared to 9,700 in 1997; and new family services to protect the family and support the stability of family life have also been introduced.

There have been many other improvements in the area of social welfare, such as the relaxation of means tests rules, new pro rata pensions, accelerated increases in qualified adult allowances, extension of the free schemes to the over-70s, introduction of new employment supports and earlier implementation of the social welfare increases to 1 January. All these combine to enhance the position of elderly people, carers, disabled people and other vulnerable groups in our society. The success of these measures in improving the standard of living of the most marginalised sections of our community is borne out by the latest research data, published by the ESRI. This report shows that the level of consistent poverty, as targeted by the national anti-poverty strategy, has been significantly reduced from 10% in 1997 to 6.2% in 2000, which is the last year for which figures are available. Obviously, these figures have come down even more substantially since then. In practical terms, this means that 200,000 people have been lifted out of poverty. In addition, consistent poverty among children has halved from 17% in 1997 to 8% in 2000. Again, this figure will have been substantially reduced by 2002.

The Government recognises that considerable challenges remain and we are determined to build on our achievements. The revised national anti-poverty strategy, Building an Inclusive Society, was formally launched by the Taoiseach and myself earlier this month. This publication is the outcome of a process committed to under the PPF. It involved a review of the methodology underlying the strategy, as well as a review and revision, where appropriate, of the existing targets. New targets in the areas of health and housing accommodation, as well as specific targets relating to vulnerable groups, are included in the revised strategy. Commitments in the new strategy have been welcomed by all sectors.

The key targets include the reduction of the numbers of those who are consistently poor to below 3% and, if possible, to eliminate consistent poverty. It is hoped that this will take place over the lifetime of the review, up to 2007. Specific attention will be paid to vulnerable groups in this objective. One of the key targets is to achieve a rate of the 2002-equivalent of €150 per week for the lowest social welfare rate by 2007. The appropriate equivalence level of basic child income support is to be set at 33% to 35% of the minimum adult social welfare rate. Long-term unemployment is to be eliminated as soon as circumstances permit, but in any event not later than 2007, while the proportion of pupils with serious literacy difficulties is to be halved by 2006.

Building an Inclusive Society represents a new and strengthened anti-poverty strategy which proposes new and enhanced institutional structures, which will underpin the implementation and monitoring of the revised strategy. Most importantly, as I have outlined, it establishes new and ambitious targets to which the Government has pledged its full commitment.

The NAPS review process will now merge with the EU process that requires each member state to produce national action plans against poverty and social exclusion on a biannual basis. This will ensure that the strategy, while subject to ongoing monitoring and evaluation, will also be comprehensively reviewed every two years. This continuous reappraisal of the strategy will ensure it retains focus and relevance in the years ahead and allows us to continue to realise our ambition of eliminating consistent poverty in Ireland.

I will now outline the provisions contained in the Bill. As Senators will already have considered it in detail, I will focus on a number of key provisions. Child benefit is a universal payment made directly to families. As such it is the most efficient and effective way in which the Government can channel help to children. Before we took office expenditure on child benefit was £397 million annually. The increases announced in budget 2002 and provided for in section 2 of the Bill bring investment in 2002 to €1.44 billion or £1.14 billion approximately – almost three times the 1997 figure.

The monthly rate for the first two children is being increased by €31.80 or £25.04 per month while the monthly rate for the third and subsequent children is being increased by €38.10 or £30.01 per month. These increases bring the monthly rates to €117.60 or £92.60 and €147.30 or £116.01 respectively. From April, a family with three children will receive €382.50 or £301.24 compared to £221 at present, an increase of €101.70 or £80 or 36% per month. These substantial increases fulfil the Government's commitment set out in the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness to move towards £100 or €126.97 for the third and subsequent children and will be fully implemented from April. If returned to office, we will continue to give record increases in child benefit.

Since 1997 the monthly rates of child benefit have increased threefold from £30 per month to £92.60 per month for the lower rate and from £39 to £116 for the higher rate of payment. In 1997 the child benefit increase for a family with three children was £7 per month; last year and this the same family will get an increase of £80 per month in each year.

The Bill brings forward the effective date for the 2002 increase to April. However, the first pay day in May is the earliest date from which it is possible for my Department to pay the increased rates. The majority of child benefit payments are made by means of books of payable orders which run from June to May. The new books from June next will contain orders at the increased rate in the normal course. The increase for April and May has, therefore, to be paid separately and May is the earliest date from which it is administratively possible to make this payment to these families.

I am also introducing changes in the arrangements for entitlement to child dependant increases payable with short-term social welfare payments such as disability and unemployment benefit. At present such increases cease to be payable once the child reaches his or her 18th birthday. Section 7 of the Bill provides that from April, where the child is receiving full-time education, these increases will continue to paid until the following 30 June. This is a first step in implementing the commitment in the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness towards increasing the age limit to 22 years, in line with the current arrangements for long-term payments.

The Government, over successive budgets, has introduced measures to develop the types of services and supports which provide practical assistance for carers. As a result of changes introduced over the last five budgets, the number of carers receiving carer's allowance and carer's benefit has more than doubled from 9,700 to over 19,500 while expenditure has increased by over 180%.

In the Bill we are continuing to honour our commitment to supporting the valuable work undertaken by carers. In previous budgets I promised to move towards the stage whereby all carers, whose joint family income is at average industrial earnings, will qualify for carer's allowance at the maximum rate. In line with this commitment I have again increased the disregards this year in order that from April, a couple can have a joint income disregard of €382 per week. This measure will increase the payment of 2,300 carers. It will also ensure an estimated additional 3,400 carers will qualify for a payment. This measure will be implemented by way of regulations with effect from April.

One of the many measures I introduced in 1999 was a new annual respite care grant payable to all carers in receipt of carer's allowance and carers caring for recipients of a constant attendance or prescribed relative's allowance. Section 3 of the Bill provides for a further enhancement of this payment by an increase in the amount of the grant from £400 to €635 or £500. In addition, carers caring for more than one care recipient will be entitled to a double respite care grant of €1,270 or £1,000. These increases will become effective in June 2002, when the grant is next due.

Section 15 relaxes the conditions for entitlement to carer's benefit for certain job-sharers and part-time workers. At present, persons claiming carer's benefit must work 38 hours in each period of a fortnight during the 13 weeks preceding their claim. This condition disqualifies some job-sharers and part-time workers from the scheme. Following representations from the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, I have decided to reduce the number of hours of employment required to 17 hours per week or 34 per fortnight.

The health strategy recently launched by my colleague, the Minister for Health and Children, also bears out our commitment to improving services for older people, people with disabilities and their carers. The document proposes to reform existing arrangements, including carer's allowance, in order to introduce an integrated care subvention scheme which maximises support for home care. The Department of Health and Children is working with my Department to develop proposals in this area. In addition, the strategy proposes that a co-ordinated action plan to meet the needs of ageing and older people be developed by the Department of Health and Children in conjunction with my Department, the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the Department of the Environment and Local Government. The strategy makes a number of other proposals in relation to care planning, greater availability of short-term respite care and the development of primary care services such as domiciliary and day care services. I look forward to being a part of this integrated approach to developing better services for carers and the people for whom they care. I would like to think this will continue after the general election regardless of who is in office.

In late 2000 I initiated a study into the whole area of long-term care funding, both in the private and public sector with a view to developing a strategy for future action. This report will be published shortly after Easter. The study will examine the strategic issues involved in financing long-term care. This involves an assessment of alternative financing or funding approaches and their feasibility in the Irish context. The study will encompass the financing of personal long-term care needs, both in the community and institutional care, and the potential of the private sector or a combined public-private sector approach to develop new initiatives in this area. Again, we have adopted a cross-cutting approach in this regard – the study is being undertaken in consultation with the Department of Health and Children and the Department of Finance and any policy proposals arising from the report will be developed in conjunction with these Departments.

Section 4 of the Bill updates the rate of widowed parent grant in primary legislation, which was increased by regulations from £1,000 to €2,500 – £1,968 – with effect from budget day, 5 December last. Sections 5 and 6 give effect to two other budget improvements aimed at assisting people who returned to the workforce, but who were subsequently forced to re-apply for their original social welfare payments. Section 5 provides for the linking of disability benefit claims of five years' duration or more for up to 13 weeks in relation to periods of incapacity for work. This measure will ensure that people who, following a prolonged illness, return to employment but find after a short time that they are unable to continue can re-apply for disability benefit without the need to satisfy the conditions for re-qualification.

Section 6 disregards periods spent on pre-retirement allowance for the purpose of linking two claims to unemployment assistance and for linking two claims to pre-retirement allowance which occur within 52 weeks. Cases have arisen where people on pre-retirement allowance have resumed employment but who subsequently became unemployed. Under existing arrange ments they must claim unemployment assistance and serve three waiting days before receiving payment. To avoid this disincentive, it is now intended to allow such people to resume claiming pre-retirement allowance where the period spent in employment is less than 52 weeks.

Section 9 changes the qualifying conditions for entitlement to maternity and adoptive benefits by self-employed people. The main effect of the changes is to allow self-employed women greater flexibility in satisfying the PRSI contribution conditions for the benefits concerned and to bring them more into line with those applicable to employees.

Section 11 deals with the PRSI arrangements for the proposed new personal retirement savings accounts or PRSAs being introduced under the Pensions Bill currently before the other House and for other personal pension plans. The PRSA will be a low cost, easy access, long-term personal investment account designed to allow people save for their retirement in a flexible manner.

It is proposed that payments towards such pensions will be treated in a similar manner to contributions made to existing occupational pensions for PRSI purposes, that is, they will be exempt from PRSI. Where payments to such pensions are made through the payroll system, the necessary exemptions will be provided for under regulations governing the PAYE system. Section 11 deals with cases where the premium payments are made outside the payroll system. It provides for a refund of the PRSI contributions deducted from such payments over the course of a tax year.

Section 12 provides for the introduction of a public service identity to enhance the effectiveness of the personal public service number as a public service identifier. In our action programme for Government, we promised to modernise public services to make them more relevant to the citizen. We promised to improve access to public services by providing them electronically and this is a key element of our e-government strategy. Our aim is to put the customer first rather than the supplier of the service and to integrate services to make access as easy as possible for the people who use them. People want to be able to contact public services in the manner most appropriate to their needs whether in person, by telephone or letter, or, increasingly, on-line. They want to be able to transact their business seamlessly and not have to go from one agency to another repeating the same information.

To achieve this, the Government has approved a new model known as the public service broker for the delivery of public services electronically. The broker is being developed by the REACH agency, which operates under the aegis of my Department, and it will co-ordinate access to the full range of public services in a variety of ways, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

The building blocks for this new service were put in place with the legislation I introduced in 1998 providing for the personal public service number as a public service identifier and as a framework for the sharing of information between agencies for specified services. In section 12 of the Bill I am introducing a further building block for this process with the introduction of a public service identity which will act as a unique and secure identifier for public service customers.

From the customer's point of view, the public service identity will be a speedy, efficient method of establishing who they are for the purposes of access to and dealing with public service agencies. It will also mean that their identity can be better protected against inadvertent disclosure or against theft or misuse by other persons.

Section 12 defines the elements of the identity, which will include, inter alia, the person's name, address, date of birth, sex, nationality and his or her PPS number. Where this data is collected from customers in their dealings with public service agencies, it will be used to maintain their identity in the event of a change, for example, a change of address. In addition, it is proposed that personal data collected at birth registration will also be used for this purpose. My Department will be responsible for managing the access by public service agencies to a person's public service identity as part of its management of the existing PPS database. This measure will lead to improved administrative efficiency and effectiveness across all public service agencies. It will help reduce bureaucracy and begin the process of eliminating red tape.

Section 14 strengthens the powers of the Revenue Commissioners in relation to the collection of PRSI contributions. It allows the Revenue Commissioners to offset repayment of taxes against outstanding liabilities for PRSI. Second, it extends the provisions of the Taxes Acts regarding publication of the names of tax defaulters where the settlement is greater than €12,700 to PRSI contributions.

Section 16 and Part 2 of the Schedule to the Bill provide for an amendment to the Charities Acts removing the financial limit attached to the use of cy-près. In the White Paper on Supporting Voluntary Activity published in September 2000, the Government announced that responsibility for charity regulatory matters and the Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests would transfer from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to my Department. This transfer of responsibilities was effected last July. The White Paper also recognised the need for a more modern legal framework for the charity sector and stated the Government's commitment to ensuring the introduction of comprehensive legislation on regulation of charities and charitable fund-raising. The work of reviewing the legislation which is currently underway in my Department will be accompanied by broad public consultation on the appropriate regulatory frame work and the nature and extent of the legislative reform required.

Pending completion of this process of reform, I take the opportunity in this Bill to make two important changes to the Charities Acts. The Charities Acts allows the commissioners to frame so-called "cy-près” schemes which allow the original objects of a charity to be altered, usually because these objects can no longer be carried out. This may arise, for example, in the case of funds left to an orphanage which no longer exists. In such circumstances the commissioners could use the “cy-près” provisions to divert these funds to the nearest contemporary use, such as the children's ward of a local hospital. This is a very valuable service for charities which is provided free of charge by the commissioners; however, there is currently a monetary limit of £250,000 on the commissioners' discretion. In cases above this limit, charities are obliged to take the matter to the High Court and bear the considerable costs that can be associated with this course of action.

Part 2 of the Schedule to the Bill increases the powers of the commissioners by abolishing the current monetary limit on their determination of such applications. It also provides that the commissioners will have power to authorise a lease rather than a disposition of land held on charitable trust where a power of sale was not provided in the original gift. These two amendments were sought by the Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests in my discussions with them.

Parts 4 to 9, inclusive, of the Schedule to the Bill amend the Births, Deaths and Marriages Acts to facilitate the initial implementation of a new computerised system of registering life events. Civil registration touches on each and every one of us at important stages in our lives, beginning with the registration of our births and ending when our deaths are registered. In between those events, civil registration affects us during our lives both directly, as in the case of getting married, or indirectly, when certificates are required for many of the services that are available in our society, such as enrolling a child in school, getting a passport, taking up employment or claiming a social welfare payment. Due to the importance of civil registration and recognising the changing needs of customers, the Government gave approval for expenditure of some £7.3 million on a programme to modernise the Civil Registration Service.

While there has been little change to the basic registration procedures since 1864, there have been many changes in our society, major developments in technology and increased expectations by citizens of how public services should be delivered. My Department, in conjunction with the Department of Health and Children, has been engaged in the review of the entire registration system including registration law. The review also examined the structure of registration on a national basis in order to identify the changes needed to capitalise on the use of modern computer technology to capture registration information in an electronic format at the point of registration. The objective is to implement a modern and customer focused service geared to the needs of the 21st century. The modernisation of the registration service will benefit all citizens by providing increased flexibility, in accessing and delivering the service.

I intend to publish a comprehensive Civil Registration Bill later this year which will provide a framework for new administrative structures for the General Registrar Office, the introduction of new registers of divorce and civil nullity and changes in the procedures for registering the events – births, stillbirths, adoptions, marriages and deaths. Approximately 104,000 events are registered each year – 52,000 births, 500 stillbirths, 16,000 marriages, 31,000 deaths, 500 adoptions, 2,000 re-registrations and 2,000 amendments. In addition, 400,000 certificates are produced and 1.2 million searches or inquiries are carried out each year.

The Registration of Births and Deaths Acts, 1863 to 1996, and the Marriages Acts, 1844 and 1863, provide for the manner in which births, deaths and marriages may be registered and also for the maintenance of a permanent record of vital events by An tArd Chlaraitheoir. These Acts also set out the manner in which the public may access the records and obtain certified copies of individual records. Parts 4 to 9, inclusive, of the Schedule to the Bill provide for the amendment of the relevant Acts to facilitate the introduction of the electronic registration of births and deaths later this year which will represent the first phase of the modernisation programme.

The Bill also includes provisions to allow for the capture and storing in electronic format of all registration records created since 1845 – about 20 million records in all. The electronic capture of historical data is of fundamental importance to the success of the modernisation programme. Currently, a person can only get a certificate in the district in which the event was registered or from the GRO. When the records are computerised it will be possible to get a certificate at any registrar's office around the country for any event registered in the State. For example, if one was born in Donegal and currently living in Cork, one would have to write or call to the registrar in Donegal or the GRO in Dublin for a birth certificate. When the records are computerised, one will be able to call to the local registrar in Cork.

I would like to think one will be able to buy one's certificate on-line or on the high street. I envisage the GRO project – the computerisation of the births, marriages, deaths, etc. – will feed into what is called the REACH project which I mentioned earlier. When somebody is born and an application in relation to registration is made to social welfare, all the information will be on computer. Therefore, when somebody applies for a social welfare payment, it will not be necessary for him or her to produce his or her birth and marriage certificates and so on because it will be available on-line in our Department.

Part 6 of the Schedule provides for a change in the arrangements for re-registration of a birth. At present, there are two types of re-registration. Under the Legitimacy Act, 1931, where the parents of the child subsequently marry after the birth of the child, they are required to have the birth re-registered. The second type of re-registration was introduced by the Status of Children Act, 1987, to allow the father's details to be added to the register where the parents are not married to each other and the father's details are not shown in the original register entry.

The current legislation provides that where a birth is re-registered under these Acts, the surname of the child to be recorded is that which appears on the original entry – usually the mother's surname. In such cases where a couple marry after the registration of the birth of their child there is no means at present to confer the father's surname on the child. This restriction has obviously caused difficulty and embarrassment for both parents and children where following marriage, the parents have the husband's – the father's – surname and the child on his or her birth certificate is known by the mother's name. The effect of the amendment included in Part 6 of the Schedule is that in such cases a child's surname can be re-registered at the joint request of both parents.

I am also taking the opportunity in the Bill to amend the law dealing with the commencement of maintenance orders which is contained in section 4 of the Family Law (Maintenance of Spouses and Children) Act, 1976. This Act was one of the first of the modern pieces of family law legislation repealing the Married Women (Maintenance in case of Desertion) Act, 1886. It allows for stand alone applications for maintenance. Most applications under the Act are brought in the District Court. Section 4 provides that a periodical payment order under the Act shall commence on the date specified in the order not being a date earlier than that on which the order is made. However, problems have been identified with the operation of this provision which allows the maintenance payer to effectively delay the date from which payments must be made.

The first of these is that payment under the order cannot be commenced earlier than the date of the order to the original court – usually the District Court. This gives the maintenance payer the incentive to delay the original court hearing as much as possible. Second, in the case of an appeal, usually from the District Court to the Circuit Court, while the appeal does not automatically act as a stay on the order, nonetheless as a matter of practice a stay is usually granted. Thus the maintenance award usually has effect only from the date of the grant of maintenance, that is, in the Circuit Court on appeal. This provides an incentive for the maintenance payer to appeal.

This contrasts with the provisions of the Family Law Act, 1995, and the Family Law (Divorce) Act, 1996, under which the court can specify that the order may take effect earlier than the date of the order although not earlier than the date of application for the order. This, in effect, allows the court to back date the maintenance order to the date of the commencement of the proceedings or at any time during the intervening period. This provides some encouragement to the parties to process the litigation in a speedy fashion. The proposed amendment to section 4 is designed to introduce similar arrangements for applications for maintenance under the 1976 Act by providing that a court could order that the periodical payments commence at any time from the date of the original application.

I hope Senators have benefited from this outline of the key provisions of the Bill. I look forward to the debate on it and commend it to Seanad Éireann.

I welcome the Minister. It was particularly interesting that the earlier part of his speech dealt specifically with the new strategy being put in place to exclude poverty, create a more balanced society and build an inclusive society. The fact that he spent so much time dealing with this issue and highlighting what it is proposed to do over the next five years is conclusive evidence that over the last five years, the Minister failed to be effective in doing what was required. The most obvious failure in reducing poverty is the lack of communication, co-operation and knowledge between the Departments of Social, Community and Family Affairs, Health and Children and the Environment and Local Government. Many people have become the victims of poverty and are increasingly victimised because of the lack of co-operation. There are three bureaucracies with eight health boards thrown in for good measure. The really poor in our society have been very badly discriminated against.

The Minister has given substantial monetary increases in many of the social welfare payments. That is on the record and there is evidence to prove it. However, evidence from all the surveys carried out shows that the gap between the very wealthy and the poor has widened over the past five years. Despite the monetary increases and so on, the gap has widened in real terms. I do not blame the Minister specifically for that because it is overall Government strategy and policy. The Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance and the Tánaiste, in particular, have taken a very proactive line in relation to big business and the wealthy in our community and society. A variety of studies and examinations that have been carried out prove conclusively that the gap has widened.

Everything in the revised anti-poverty strategy, Building an Inclusive Society, is evidence of the Government's failure to do anything over the past five years. All that was needed was a little common sense. One would swear to God that dealing with poor people and the critical situations that face them and addressing those issues was a weird science and that it was something rare and very unusual. Instead of doing anything, we have to have reports and examinations. I often wonder if common sense has gone out the window in this country. We are talking about providing for the most vulnerable people in our society and about communication between Departments. That involves Ministers having a chat, identifying the problem and telling their officials to get on with it. It is as simple as that, but instead we have bureaucracies standing on their lofty high horses, each holding court within their framework. These barriers and bureaucratic walls will not be easily broken down. I wish whatever Minister next holds the office good luck in breaking down the barriers and increasing co-operation. A Minister covering all areas of poverty across the three Departments involved is required.

The Minister has elaborated on the child benefit aspects of the Bill. I commend him on the financial increases in child benefit he has provided for in the Bill which have been helpful. However, the reality is that children have become increasingly impoverished in other areas. Those who come from impoverished and deprived backgrounds need more support, whether it is within the school system or after school hours. Such a back-up system is very rare. Poor communities are becoming poorer. There is a real need for the Minister, with the Ministers for Health and Children and Education and Science, to address these issues. Real poverty begins in deprived and poor communities throughout the country. There are examples in every city, town and parish. The people concerned need to be given priority and consideration to help them deal with their circumstances.

As a teacher I taught in the heart of Dublin city. One of the most basic things a child would expect before going to school is a decent breakfast. Tens of thousands of children go to school without having breakfast. It is very important that these children and their schools are targeted. The Minister, with the Minister for Education and Science, should try to identify the children concerned and ensure they have the basics such as healthy food. If they get this, they will be able to concentrate and avail of the education being provided. If they do not, they will have nothing. There is a need for more support for children with learning difficulties, although this might be more properly addressed to the Minister for Education and Science as it has not been forthcoming.

Reports have been completed at European Union level where the evidence shows that Ireland has one of the greatest gaps between rich and poor. It has also been shown that Irish children are among the poorest and most impoverished in the European Union. Despite having an economy whose indicators are at the top of the European league, we have not balanced this with the needs of our poorest citizens. The wealthy have become wealthier while the gap between rich and poor has widened. That is the litmus test which the Government has failed dramatically.

The St. Vincent de Paul Society has carried out an analysis which demonstrates that the gap between rich and poor has become wider. Many families are living in appalling conditions. There are hundreds of people in my area who need a disabled person's grant, but adequate funding cannot be provided by the Government this year. Disabled people are hugely disadvantaged regarding basic accommodation and facilities. I am dealing with the case of an 80 year old woman who lives with her 48 year old daughter and has severe arthritis. She has had four hip operations and several ankle and knee operations. She does not have a bathroom or shower in her house which is very damp and of Third World standard. The Mid-Western Health Board and Clare County Council do not have funding to provide her with a disabled person's grant which would provide her with basic living conditions.

I appreciate that the Minister has wonderful programmes on paper. The disabled person's grant is an issue that must be addressed immediately by him in conjunction with the Ministers for Health and Children and the Environment and Local Government. This is the hidden Ireland about which we do not hear. These issues are not being addressed, rather they are being fobbed off through bureaucracy. We know that 50,000 households do not have a proper heating system. There are old people who require essential repairs to be carried out on their homes, but cannot afford them. The local authorities do not have enough funding to meet such demands. As a result, people are becoming increasingly impoverished.

The household budget survey conducted between 1990 and 2000 shows a widening gap between rich and poor. Disposable income in the poorest 10% of households has increased by only 33% compared to 62% for the richest 10%. In 1997-98 30% of pensioners were in the poorest 20% of households, in the year 2000 this figure had increased to 38%. The gap is constantly widening.

What has the Government been doing for the past five years? Did the Minister and his ministerial colleagues, Deputies Martin and Dempsey, communicate with one another at all?

What did the Senator's party do when in government?

Listening to this is a penance a Minister must endure.

They were at the three corners of a triangle and there was no link between them. I am sure if Senator Leonard was honest, she would say the same. There are 5,000 homeless persons in the country, many of whom are children or young teenagers. They are very vulnerable and being exploited in prostitution and other areas. Let us consider the depths of depravity and poverty to which they are being subjected. What has the Government done about this?

When in government the Senator's party gave a £1 increase in child benefit, which does not compare well to the massive increases we have given.

The Minister served in a time of unprecedented wealth. Unprecedented income was generated because of the responsible actions taken by the Government of 1994-97. The Minister took office on a very sound and well laid foundation.

The Senator sounds like a broken record.

The Government built on this foundation, but scattered its fruits in a rather unwise fashion.

We will see the people's response at election time.

The Minister has mentioned the general election. It is interesting to note that he spent more on advertising social welfare increases in the first two months of this year than he did in the previous 12.

The Estimates today will show that I did not reach the amount allowed for advertising.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Will the Senator, please, stop provoking the Minister?

The Minister introduced the topic of the general election. I find it extraordinary that he spent as much money on advertising in the first two months of this year as he did in all of last year. That is interesting and a complete abuse of power and public money by Fianna Fáil. People are entitled to their payments.

If the Senator will give way for one minute, I will give her a history lesson about the great James Dillon.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I ask the Minister to allow the Senator to conclude.

I have much more to say.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I do not doubt it.

I would appreciate it if the Leas-Cathaoirleach would allow me more time.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I will allow a little injury time.

The other issue is the back-to-school allowance. I meet teachers who must buy children socks for games.

Given the overall increases, old age pensions are paltry. I came across a case at the weekend of an 88 year old man who has been refused an old age pension three times by the Department. He is refused on grounds that interest from a deposit account is £96 per week, but the bank confirms that the amount of interest is exactly £103.62 for 31 days. He is being refused because a certain yardstick states—

He must have some money in the bank to get that amount of interest for 31 days. I do not have that kind of money.

He got £103.62 for 31 days.

Was that in interest?

Yes, over 31 days, or about £3 per day.

The Senator should inquire how much money he has.

How much is on deposit?

Yet the Department refuses him a pension.

The Senator should find out how much he has in the account.

I know how much he has. I have evidence of how much interest he is earning. The Department claims he is earning five times more than he actually is. This shows that the reality differs dramatically from the rosy picture the Minister paints. I ask him and his cohorts to address this. His document on building an inclusive society is an admission of failure by the Government which recognises too late what it should have done over the last five years.

I welcome the Minister to the House and, if he does not mind, will discuss the reality of the Bill, which is that for the second year running, despite what Senator Taylor-Quinn claims, £850 million will be spent on the social welfare package. We have a short Bill today because of the Government's commitment to social welfare. When Senator Taylor-Quinn's party was in government it did nothing on payments for groups on social welfare.

I forgot to mention that the payment dates are being brought forward, which is very significant. The question is will the general election be held on 10 or 17 May. Will one cheque or two be issued?

It will be one.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Senator Taylor-Quinn can clarify that matter on Committee Stage next week.

I regret that the Senator cannot come back in and tell us when her party brought forward the payment dates. The reality is that many social welfare recipients were aggrieved that the budgets were announced in December and they did not receive their payments until September. It would make for an interesting debate if the Leas-Cathaoirleach allowed her to speak again on what her party did when in government.

We narrowed the gap.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I do not want to encourage that debate now.

We gave a commitment to bring forward the payment dates. We needed a separate Social Welfare Bill before Christmas because of the massive increases coming on stream in January. The Minister stated we brought the payment dates forward to June last year and they will be brought forward again this year.

That is very significant.

It is. I have many friends of child bearing age who think that the payments are extremely significant, both this year and last. My friends are particularly appreciative of what the Minister has given them.

The darling of the women.

It must be worth a few votes.

It is worth quite a few.

Yes, we could say "The darling of the women." These commitments were made many years ago and we delivered the first part of the package last year with the £25 increase for the first two children and £30 for the third. That increase was repeated this year.

This is no election stunt. I remember a colleague in Fine Gael who delivered a £4 million road package to County Monaghan the week before the 1997 general election. We are about to enter the next general election campaign and the money has yet to appear. We can discuss election promises if the Senator wishes.

The reason the money has not been seen is that when Fianna Fáil got into government it stifled the project, as it did every other project planned by the previous Government.

That is what happens to parties which promise money before elections.

We can discuss election promises, but I prefer to compliment the Minister on his achievements, particularly in the area of child benefit which helps the poorest in society.

The richest also.

Yes, they benefit also, but the fact is that regardless of circumstances—

Is it right that the Minister or I should receive the same benefit as the less well-off?

—whether in full or part-time employment or with one or two parents at work, a parent needs financial support for child care services which the Minister provided both last year and this. Child benefit is the fairest way as it treats all children equally. I congratulate the Government on delivering on its commitment to increase it.

Concern was expressed in recent weeks about a downturn in the economy, but I hope that, whatever the case, our family first policy continues regardless of what party is in government, although I am certain that Fianna Fáil will continue it after the next general election.

Does the Senator mean putting the Fianna Fáil family first?

I am sure the electorate will appreciate what a Fianna Fáil led Government has done in the last five years. I can speak of my friends who appreciate the changes in child benefit and as their representative, relay their appreciation to the Minister.

I wish to enlighten and educate Senator Taylor-Quinn because I am also from a rural constituency, where many community crèches and child care facilities were established in recent years courtesy of funding from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform under its equal opportunities child care programme. The Senator referred to areas which were forgotten when it came to child care. I live in a very rural area of County Monaghan where we have a school of 57 children, and 22 more in a pre-school service, which shows that such services are provided and funded. I do not know what has happened in the Senator's constituency, but can speak of many private and community child care services which have benefited from Government funding. As Senator Quinn—

I remind the Senator that my name is Taylor-Quinn. I do not wish to be confused with Senator Quinn.

I apologise, but as I did not wish to run out of time as Senator Taylor-Quinn did, I cut a few corners. I am sure she was aware that I was referring to her. Private providers of child care in rural areas find it difficult because they cannot charge the same exorbitant prices as those in large urban areas. We will have to return to the issue of grants towards staff costs for these providers.

Senator Taylor-Quinn referred to poverty proofing. It is a long held conviction of many that providing individuals with a job is the best way to eliminate poverty. During the Government's term of office over 100,000 were removed from the live register. That is hugely significant to those who were effectively taken out of the poverty trap. The availability of educational opportunities and the increase in the number of training places combined with the increase in child care places, courtesy of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, means there are now greater opportunities for individuals, but particularly mothers who are the primary carers, to get out of the poverty trap.

I welcome wholeheartedly the improvements for carers, an issue I discussed with the Minister on many occasions and raised in debates on the Social Welfare Bill, because we can never do enough for people who care for family members or relatives in the home. If carers do not receive support, however, they cannot give support to those for whom they are caring.

I welcome the increase in the respite care grant which was first introduced in 1999 and has been increased on an annual basis by £100. We talk about maximising support for home care and the Minister said there would be co-ordination between the Department of Health and Children and the Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs in that regard, but I hope some means will be devised whereby people who are ineligible for carer's allowance can be assessed with a view to them being entitled to respite care grants.

I totally oppose the elimination of the means test for carers. Senator Taylor-Quinn will agree that people who are extremely wealthy should not be entitled to the carer's allowance. She talked about wealth and poverty in her contribution so I am sure she will agree that very wealthy people should not take some of the cake which is to be divided among those who are less well off.

Respite care is a different matter, however, regardless of a person's wealth. Carers need a break from the individual for whom they are caring and, similarly, a change is as good as a rest for the individual being cared for. Respite care can be extremely helpful from both points of view.

I welcome the increase in the income disregard. The Minister gave a commitment two years ago that he would examine this area with a view to allowing more people to become eligible for the carer's allowance. The increase is welcome because people are living longer and will require care into the future.

The changes in disability benefit are welcome. Individuals who have been off work due to sickness often want to return to work, but tend to delay doing that because of the restraints on them. I welcome the changes the Minister has made in relation to disability benefit.

I want to refer to two minor details in the Bill. We all welcome the personal public service number introduced some years ago, but it appears that bureaucracy is still the order of the day because, regardless of the agency with which one is dealing, one has to repeat all the same details. I would welcome any change that would eliminate such red tape, which is a waste of time and paper in this age of modern technology. That is an area we have to examine.

On that matter, Senator Taylor-Quinn might ask what we did when we were in office. We have dealt with the registration of births, marriages and deaths in the same way since 1864 and it took a Fianna Fáil Minister to introduce changes in this Bill. One should no longer have to stand in a queue for two or three hours to register when it may not be convenient to do so. I realise the job of those in Opposition is to criticise and Senator Taylor-Quinn spoke about me being honest, but if she was being honest she would admit that this Minister has done more in the past number of years across the board. Some of those improvements did not get the coverage they deserved, although we can shout from the rooftops about increases in old age pensions and child benefit which affect so many people. Many other changes have taken place in the past number of years, including that related to the pre-1963 benefit, additional training places, back to work and back to education allowances, etc. The increases in these areas may not be on a broad scale but they are hugely significant to the people they affect.

I congratulate the Minister on the changes he has made over the past five years and I look forward to increases in the future because the Government knows where it is heading in that respect. Our main aim over the past five years was to look after the elderly and carers, which we have done adequately, but I have no doubt that the commitments given by the Minister on child benefit and a number of other areas will be honoured after the next election.

I thank Senators for participating in the debate. I am not sure if I can thank Senator Taylor-Quinn for her contribution.

Get the name right.

Be generous, Minister.

I am always willing to take praise from any quarter and I must inform her that I have even been praised by the Opposition spokespersons in the Dáil for all I have done.

I browsed through the report of the debates and I would not say that Deputy Broughan and Deputy Hayes were throwing laurels at the Minister.

Deputy Broughan went as far as to say that I have raised the level of increases in social welfare so high that I have left a huge bar for my successor to jump.

The Minister should not quote selectively from the report.

Before I deal with matters to do with social welfare, I have been criticised by Senator Taylor-Quinn about the advertising campaign, for which I make no apologies. All the advice from my Department and the customer service panels, which bring people in and ask them about the issues that are of most concern to them in relation to the delivery of services, indicates that people need more information.

Does the Minister's name have to be appended to all the information?

The Minister must be allowed to reply without interruption.

I make no apologies for spending money on an advertising campaign because it helped to smooth the transition in terms of the confluence of the two issues, namely, moving back the payment of social welfare benefits to 1 January, which was welcomed by everyone, and the implementation of the euro. Those who criticise me for the advertising campaign are not listening to the public and what they say about lack of information. It ill behoves them to criticise me given that when they were in office they also carried out information campaigns similar to one I carried out.

That is not true.

No lesser a person than the great James Dillon, of whom I have no doubt the Senator was a great supporter, implemented a campaign—

That was 55 years ago.

—when in the Department of Agriculture in 1948. It was called "kill the old hen campaign". Does the Senator remember it?

No, I would not.

I will read from Department of Agriculture documents.

Could the Minister read from the more positive aspects of the former Minister's contribution?

Will the Senator please allow the Minister to continue without interruption? We must have an orderly debate.

A progress report from the then Minister for Agriculture to the Department of the Taoiseach on the kill the old hen campaign—

What about the old cock?

—states that special measures were brought forward with a view to raising the quality of poultry in the Gaeltacht areas mainly and increasing egg production. It was decided in October 1948 to make up to four dozen pure bred day old chicks available in the spring of 1949 at the bargain price of 2s. 6d. per dozen to any poultry keeper in the area who would undertake to kill or sell for table use by the end of July 1949 all mongrel foul and all hens over two years of age.

As to the reason I have told the Senators this, I was reliably informed that the great James Dillon appended his name to all advertisements of the kill the old hen campaign. I delved further and obtained extracts from the Department of Agriculture file regarding expenditure on advertisements under the 1949 old hen account.

That was 55 years ago. A Chathaoirligh, is this matter related to the subject in question?

It is and the Minister is in order. The Senator must allow the Minister to continue without interruption.

Is the Minister not out of order? Has he not moved away a little from the issue before us?

The document is an account of the amount of money spent in March 1949 under the old hen account. The princely sum of £487 17s. 6d. was expended on the campaign by James Dillon. For the information of the Senator, there were declared champion features. A sum of £6. 2s 6d was spent on advertising. Given that some £487 was spent on the campaign in 1949, my advertising campaign pales into insignificance, if the figures were multiplied.

The Minister should be careful. Does he not remember the outcome of the election in question for James Dillon?

They always produce good hens in County Clare.

I hope Senator Taylor-Quinn does not take offence.

The Government stands on its record on social welfare. I have been lucky enough to be Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs in what have been good times, but what is important is how one manages one's money in good times. The Opposition would state it created the boom and that we had the benefit of it. We would state that the boom started in 1994 when we were in office. Would the Opposition not state it created the boom?

It started with the Tallaght strategy in 1987.

Okay, but the good times began to roll in 1994 and the Opposition did not do anything. In 1995 the then Government of which the Senator was a member—

No, I was in the Upper House surveying what was going on in the Lower House.

The Senator was a supporter. Her party agreed at the time to give old age pensioners an increase of £1.80 per week. My party was in opposition and I was a Front Bench spokesperson. We could not believe our ears when we heard the rumour that afternoon that the Government was only giving a measly increase of £1.80 per week to old age pensioners. It gave an increase of 2.5% on all social welfare benefits at a time when the rate of inflation was 2.5%, which meant, in effect, that social welfare recipients did not get any real increase in benefit. We could not believe only those rates of increase were given at the time, particularly when there was a Labour Minister for Finance and a Democratic Left Minister for Social Welfare in office.

The Government promised to do a number of things when it took office, which it has more than fulfilled. In relation to child benefit, I remind the House that in 1997 a family with three children got the princely increase of £7 per month. Last year they got an increase of £80 per month and this year an increase of another £80 per month. If the Government is returned to office, they will get an increase of another £80 per month next year.

Senator Leonard was correct in saying that the people are very appreciative and saying the move in relation to child benefit was one of the most significant apart from the increases in old age pension. I mention these points because Senator Taylor-Quinn egged me on to do so. I was going to sit here nice and quietly—

And be your usual, civilised self.

Apart from the increases, there were dramatic strategic moves, one being the Reach project and another being the Grow project. It is a source of disappointment that, while these projects will definitely come onstream in the latter half of this year, I may not be in this ministry.

It is amazing that the Minister did not ensure they were brought forward.

I am delighted to have worked with my officials on bringing forward the modernisation of delivery of services to the general public, something way beyond the remit of my Department, yet one which it is spearheading.

Similarly, in relation to the national anti-poverty strategy, I do not accept what critics of the Government say about the rich getting richer and the poor not getting as rich. The discussion is about relative equity. It can be compared to saying, for example, that every income earner in a midlands town is on a salary of £10,000 and one person in the town wins the lotto. From a relative income point of view, those on a salary of £10,000 are much worse off the day after the person concerned wins the lotto, but are not any worse off in their personal circumstances.

That is not a credible comparison. The Minister should be more realistic.

It is an economic fact that at a time of economic boom the issue of relativity becomes more skewed and at a time of an economic downturn relative income differences are not as stark. The Government's initiatives have raised all boats. I am sure the Senator would accept that people living in her constituency are much better off than they were five years ago.

In relation to the strategic point of the national anti-poverty strategy, when we took office we accepted the previous Government's national anti-poverty strategy which it had just put in place. It contained certain commitments which were supposed to be reached by 2007. With the progress of the economy, virtually all of the targets set to be reached by 2007 were reached in the first few years of this Government's term of office. It was then necessary to sit down with the social partners to review progress on the national anti-poverty strategy, to review the old targets and set new ones. That is what we have done. No less a person than David Hanly on "Morning Ireland" said he was 20 years doing the programme and he had never heard CORI come out and welcome such a document, which is what it did. It was the first time it had welcomed such a document. It did so because we gave specific commitments, which I hope, in the unlikely event of Senator Taylor-Quinn's party being in government after the next general election, it would continue, particularly the commitment to achieve the rate of €150 per week in 2002 terms by 2007.

By 2007 that figure will be very low.

The Senator is doing exactly what her spokesperson in the Dáil did within hours of this being announced.

In five years' time the Minister is only talking about a rate of £120.

He misinterpreted it and made a mistake. It is €150 in 2002 terms by 2007—

That was clarified.

—which is a horse of a different colour.

We will implement it when we get into government.

Fr. Seán Healy of CORI wrote an article in The Irish Times the next day in which he stated it was the first time ever a Government had committed itself to giving what was, in effect, a basic income and that it was a major breakthrough. I rest my case in relation to it.

Have they been unwrapped and billboarded in County Louth?

Other groups welcomed the strategy. I have been lucky to be a Minister during the last five years. There was a social welfare budget increase of about £200 million the year before I took office; the Government increased it substantially in my first year and by £400 million the following year. The social welfare budget has increased by £850 million in each of the last two years. I am lucky to have worked with the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, who has been criticised by many. He has been the best Minister for Finance for many years.

Hear, hear.

He has been criticised for allegedly supporting the rich, not the poor, but I disagree with such an analysis as he has given the biggest ever yearly increases to my Department. I have been able to say in this House every year that I have been given the largest increase in the history of the State. Each year has been better than the previous one. The social welfare budget has increased from £4.5 billion in 1997 to £7.5 billion in 2002, a magnificent achievement. As the Government prepares for the general election, it will ask the people to decide whether it has done a good job, based on its record.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 26 March 2002.

When is it proposed to sit again?

At 10.30 a.m. next Tuesday.

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