The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re Friendly Societies (Amendment) Regulations, 2002, to be taken without debate; No. 2, Road Traffic Bill, 2001 – Committee and Remaining Stages; No. 3, Arramara Teoranta (Acquisition of Shares) Bill, 2001 (Certified Money Bill) – All Stages, with the contributions of spokespersons on Second Stage not to exceed 12 minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed eight minutes and Senators may share time; No. 4, Gas (Interim) (Regulation) Bill, 2001 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] – Report and Final Stages; No. 5, Immigration Bill, 2002 – Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes and Senators may share time; No. 6, Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill, 2002 – Committee and Remaining Stages; and No. 7, statements on Campus Ireland, to be taken between 6 p.m. and 8 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed eight minutes and Senators may share time. Business will be interrupted from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.
Order of Business.
I indicated on the Order of Business yesterday that I realised this was not a normal time and, as Leader of the Fine Gael group, I would do everything I could to be reasonable, even though the amount of business proposed and the way in which we are being asked to do it is something to which I would object strongly in other circumstances.
I cannot agree to today's Order of Business. I cannot agree specifically to taking No. 6. Second Stage of this Bill, which was published yesterday, took place last evening and we are being asked to take remaining Stages today. I believe it is the intention of the Minister to try to get all five Stages through the other House tomorrow, which is a matter for that House.
It is very clear that while the intentions in the Bill are good it is deeply flawed. Already all the major organisations involved have complained about the lack of consultation and serious deficiencies in the Bill. It is clear it requires time and detailed committee work. This subject matter has ended up in the courts in major constitutional cases on a number of occasions. It is certain that if the Bill goes through as it is now it too will end up in the courts. Some of the groups involved have already indicated they will go to the courts because of their concerns about certain provisions.
This is an important Bill. It is no way to do business to rush through a Bill like this, including 40 sections of very complex subject matter, absolutely pregnant with the possibility of legal challenge, as is being proposed. There is no time for reflection, consultation or to table proper amendments. Published only yesterday, if the Leader has his way, which he will, it will be out of the House by this evening.
We will be opposing the Order of Business and the taking of No. 6. In the words of Senator O'Toole, the Government may very well find this Bill will prove to be a time bomb because of the way in which it is being rushed through.
On the Order of Business yesterday morning we indicated on this side of the House our inclination to be as helpful and co-operative as possible with the remaining business of the House. We discussed this with the Leader and indicated that we would be prepared to meet next week, if necessary, to deal with business in order that matters could be given proper and due process. I do not blame the Leader in this regard because I understand the decision was made elsewhere. However, we have to order our own business.
What we are doing by railroading this legislation through shows a cynical disregard for the rights of people with disability. I appeal to the Leader to go back to the Government on this matter. It should not be on the Order of Business today. By shoving this through we are alienating the people to whom we are trying to reach out. It is parliamentary practice going backwards and bad political thinking. It has succeeded in alienating every group.
There is something wrong with this Bill which has not involved any co-operative or partnership approach. It will cause more difficulties. The Bill set out to do good and has objectives with which we all agree, but it needs a detailed Committee Stage to address the issues in it. I am asking for that. Last night we finished late with this and had to rush through amendments. It is unfair on Members that they should have to try to deal with this complex legislation without a detailed Committee Stage and without time to consult and talk with people. It is wrong. I am opposed to it and cannot co-operate with it.
I support Senator Manning and Senator O'Toole. Yesterday, we raised the issue of the amount of legislation going through when there were four substantial Bills to be dealt with as well as motions. Of all legislation this particular issue, special education and the rights of people in relation to education and training, has been the subject of public controversy and has been an issue in the courts. We are all concerned about it and Senators have been lobbied about it. We want to get it right. The ill-fated legislation that had to be withdrawn recently indicates that people with disabilities and the groups representing them will not sit idly by until it is right.
There are good things in this legislation but the process is wrong. It is good that it is going through this House first, but it should be respected and Senators should be given the opportunity to discuss it and put forward the amendments required. Unfortunately, I was unable to speak on the Bill last night because I could not be here but there are a number of issues I want addressed through amendments. I cannot see how we can deal adequately with the Bill and push it through all Stages today. We need to consult with the groups and representatives who want a role in ensuring that the legislation is the best possible for the people they represent, the most vulnerable in the country.
I agree with Senator O'Toole concerning the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill. It is a shame the debate took place so late yesterday and that there was no coverage of it. It was the most important debate of the day and serious issues were raised. The public should have been informed of what lay beneath the surface of the Bill.
Yesterday, I raised the question of Irish aid to Uganda. The Leader indicated he would have a foreign affairs debate where this could be a central issue. The Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy O'Donnell, stands behind government to government aid but I think she is badly advised. She acknowledged there was a degree of corruption, spoke of the accountability to both Houses and indicated that she was in receipt of a report from Deloitte & Touche. In the light of the accountability to which she referred, the report she has received and recent events in Uganda, it is urgent that the Minister come to the House to explain and give an account of the government to government aid with which this country is involved.
I want to add my voice to that of previous speakers in regard to the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill, 2002. Will the Leader remind Government that its U-turn on the Disability Bill, because it had not examined it properly, was as a result of the intervention of the national disability association? These same people want an input to this Bill and they want the time for that. This pushing through of legislation is bad and will result in another challenge. It is ridiculous that we are here today knowing that will happen. It is not the Leader's fault, but will he ask the Government to reconsider and allow proper and full debate on Committee Stage of the Bill?
I support my colleagues in objecting to the way this Bill is being processed. I accept this process is not the Leader's fault but we should have learned a lesson as a result of what happened with the Disability Bill. The issue needs to be addressed urgently but unless people concerned are directly involved we will not have the type of legislation people with disability want and need. We must deal with this legislation in a more considered way so that the needs of people with disabilities are properly addressed and their voice is heard.
I too agree with the points made by my colleagues. The Leader often said that we would not behave in this manner. Was it just lip service when the House stated that it would not order business this way? Have we now, because of some exigency, decided to abandon all good practice? We saw yesterday what happened in another area when good practice was abandoned. The House should not behave like this.
I want to add to the Order of Business that business will resume after 8 p.m. after No. 7, statements on Campus Ireland, for which Fianna Fáil has forgone its Private Members' time in response to Members following the Attorney General's report yesterday.
In regard to the concerns of Senators Manning, O'Toole, Costello, Norris, Keogh and Coghlan on No. 6, there will be no time constraints in relation to Committee and Report Stage as has been the practice for the past five years. People can express their views and the legislation will not be rushed through. It is an important Bill and has been requested on many occasions here over the last three years.
I thank the leaders and the Whips for their understanding and co-operation this week, when we are in the wind-down to the general election, in regard to the various Bills to be processed and put before the House. This House has had about 400 Bills before it in the last five years, 61 of which were initiated here. This is one of those Bills and I take Senators' views on it into account. We are having a meeting of leaders and Whips this morning to discuss the remainder of business and to get views in relation to tomorrow's business. It looks as if we will sit on Thursday next week. Be that as it may, we will see how we can make progress. I have been asked to order the Remaining Stages of this Bill and that is how it is and must remain on the Order of Business.
I take serious account of the views expressed this morning. We all want to be associated with doing the right thing at the right time. We welcome this long awaited Bill and want to ensure everything contained in it is proper and right. I fully agree with the sentiments expressed.
Senator Norris has again called on the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister of State at that Department to address the issue of Government aid. As Senators know, the Government is one of the world leaders in terms of contributions, as a percentage of GDP, to Third World countries for which all parties can take credit as well as for the ambitious targets we have set ourselves for the future which I hope will be achieved. I will pass the Senator's request to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and, if we sit next Thursday, I will see if time can be made available to have the matter debated.
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Bohan, Eddie.Bonner, Enda.Callanan, Peter.Cassidy, Donie.Chambers, Frank.Dardis, John.Farrell, Willie.Gibbons, Jim.Glynn, Camillus.Kett, Tony.Kiely, Rory. |
Lanigan, Mick.Leonard, Ann.Lydon, Don.Mooney, Paschal.Moylan, Pat.Nolan, M. J.O'Brien, Francis.Ó Fearghail, Seán.Ó Murchú, Labhrás.Quill, Máirín.Walsh, Jim. |
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Burke, Paddy.Caffrey, Ernie.Coghlan, Paul.Coogan, Fintan.Costello, Joe.Henry, Mary. |
Keogh, Helen.Manning, Maurice.Norris, David.O'Meara, Kathleen.O'Toole, Joe.Ross, Shane. |