This is a Seanad Bill which has been amended by the Dáil. In accordance with Standing Order 103, it is deemed to have passed its First, Second and Third Stages in the Seanad and is placed on the Order Paper for Report Stage. On the question "That the Bill be received for final consideration", the Minister may explain the purpose of the amendments made by the Dáil. This is looked upon as the report of the Dáil amendments to the Seanad. The only matters, therefore, which may be discussed are the amendments made by the Dáil. For Senators' convenience, I have arranged for the printing and circulation of the amendments. Senators may speak only once on Report Stage.
Pensions (Amendment) Bill, 2001 [ Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil ] : Report and Final Stages.
Question proposed: "That the Bill be received for final consideration."
I welcome the Minister to the House.
Members will recall that a considerable number of amendments were made during the passage of this Bill through this House and I would like to thank Senators for their co-operation in this regard. The Bill, as passed by the Seanad, was discussed in detail in the Dáil and a number of issues raised there have been taken on board. In addition, my Department continued to receive technical comments and, where necessary, technical amendments were made to clarify the position. I will now briefly set out the amendments, by section, that are not of a purely technical nature.
In relation to section 3, amendment No. 9 makes it clear that only a contributor to a PRSA contract can refer a complaint or dispute to the Pensions Ombudsman, as is clearly the intent in section 4, which introduces this office. A statement of the PRSA contributor's rights in this regard must be contained in the PRSA contract. Amendment No. 11 provides that a review of the coverage position of occupational and personal pensions has to be undertaken within three years of the provision regarding employer mandatory access to PRSAs for their employees being intro duced. This amendment arose out of discussion in the Dáil. It ensures that the issue of coverage and the success or otherwise of PRSAs will be monitored and a report given to the Oireachtas in this regard. Amendment No. 17 also arose out of discussion in the Dáil and provides that a statement of reasonable projection to a PRSA contributor has to include a reference to the current value of the social welfare old age contributory pension in relation to average earnings. Such a statement will be of benefit to consumers, allowing them to make a better judgment on their overall pension provisions.
Section 4 of the Bill relates to tax provisions for PRSAs. Amendments Nos. 22 and 25 are the two main amendments made to section 4 in the Dáil as follows: The most important amendment provided that accrued rights under an AVC scheme may be transferred to a PRSA, subject to the rules of the AVC scheme being amended to cater for this. A second amendment ensured that the early retirement option will be available to those at age 50 or over, rather than being confined to those at age 50.
Section 5 relates to the Pensions Ombudsman. There was considerable discussion on this office in the Dáil, where the following amendments were made. Amendment No. 26 removes the requirement that the Pensions Ombudsman cannot be over 61 years of age on appointment, as concerns, with which I agreed, were expressed about that provision. Amendments Nos. 27 to 29 ensure that the time limit of six years prior to the establishment of the office now refers to six years prior to the enactment of this Bill, ensuring that a person does not fall between the two dates of the passing of the Act and establishment day.
Amendments Nos. 30 and 31 make it clear that complaints or disputes to the ombudsman have, first, to exhaust the internal dispute resolution procedure, both in relation to occupational pensions and PRSAs. Regulations in relation to these procedures will be made with the consent of the Minister for Finance. Amendment No. 34 provides that the Pensions Ombudsman can refer a case to the Garda Síochána, as was suggested in discussions in the Dáil. Amendment No. 36 provides for an improvement in the arrangements for the revaluation of preserved benefit, which will apply in respect of people who leave service after next June.
With regard to amendments Nos. 37 and 40, given the taxation arrangements for PRSAs and the 15 year limit that applies in the case of transfers from occupational pensions to PRSAs, it is necessary to re-introduce the option of buy-out bonds, which are a form of insurance product, to facilitate transfers from pension schemes where a person has over 15 years service in the scheme. Amendments Nos. 42 and 43 address issues that were raised by Senator Ross in relation to the remittance of employer contributions to the trustees or to other persons on their behalf. Taken together the provisions mean that the contri butions have to be invested by the Trustees within 31 days of the end of the month in which the contributions were made. This is a definite time scale and puts the onus firmly on the trustees to ensure that proper arrangements are in place to comply with this requirement. If they do not, they can he prosecuted by the Pensions Board. Given the thrust of the Pensions Act and that it operates by placing the duty of care on the trustees, I consider, having taken advice from the Pensions Board, that this is the best way to proceed. On the passing of this Act, the board will inform trustees of their duties in this regard.
In relation to amendment No. 44, on foot of discussion in this House and in the Dáil, I have decided that, in addition to a representative of consumer interests being put on the board, I will also appoint a representative of pensioner interests. This, I believe, will give a better balance to the board. The other amendments, as I said earlier, are technical and I will, of course, give details of any of these in which the House may have a particular interest.
I welcome this opportunity to return to the Seanad with this Bill. I appreciate the forbearance shown by the Chair, by Senators and by the staff of the House to allow this complex Bill to pass relatively quickly through the Oireachtas, given the degree of concern within both Houses and outside that it should be enacted before the impending general election.
I welcome the Minister to the House. This Bill came to the House initially as a rather slim document and there is now much more to the version which will go to the President for signature. It has had a rather unusual history, in some ways. It grew incrementally as various sections arrived in the form of amendments as time went on. I am happy it has been well scrutinised in both Houses and that the Minister has been open minded in trying, in so far as he could, to meet the genuine points raised by interest groups and, in particular, by Deputies and Senators.
I do not propose to comment in detail on the changes made to the Bill, except to make one or two observations. I regret the Minister did not find it possible to extend the remit of the ombudsman to allow him to deal with cases which go back further than six years. However, I acknowledge that he did move from three to six years, which was very significant. I hope the particular case I have in mind can be dealt with in a manner satisfactory to all concerned.
On amendments 30 and 31 in regard to the internal dispute resolution procedure, it is stated that these regulations will be made with the consent of the Minister for Finance. In a situation where a person who is in dispute does not have confidence in the fairness of the internal procedures, is he or she then prevented from going to the ombudsman, or is there any other route of appeal?
I am very pleased the Minister accepted the suggestions made by Senator Ross. I am not sure if I may speak on his behalf but his point was a very valid one and its inclusion will strengthen public confidence in the legislation. I am glad the Minister was able to accede to that particular request. I do not know if it satisfied Senator Ross but having listened to what he had to say I suspect it should.
I am not quite sure what the Minster means in regard to the amendment to section 44 in saying he will put on a representative of pensioner interests. I am unaware of one body representing all pensioners, given the variety of different kinds of pensions and pensioners. I find this very vague and perhaps the Minister will explain what is meant.
I am happy with the changes made to this Bill in the Dáil. It is important legislation and I wish the Minister and the Pensions Board well with its implementation. I thank the Minister's officials for their great courtesy and help to all sides of the House during the passage of the Bill.
I commend the Minister for bringing forward this Bill. As Senator Manning has said, the amendments that have been accepted by the Minister are of particular importance and, from now on, people who reach pensionable age can expect a far greater service than was heretofore the case.
I welcome the Bill and compliment the Minister on it. It has been substantially improved since it was last in this House. The amendment to section 44 has provided balance and recognises that people of pensionable age have a contribution to make to the board.
Will the Minister be able to do anything for those in receipt of farm retirement pensions, in spite of EU legislation? Will he comment as to whether something can be done about that? It should have been index linked but as it is tied in with EU legislation it may have been let slip through. I compliment all concerned with this Bill.
I thank the Senators for their comments. The issue raised by Senator Moylan is not covered by this legislation, but under the rules that were laid down when the farm retirement scheme was dictated at EU level and implemented at national level, there was a system of integration built into it, so that there would not be a danger of the EU double funding pensioners already in receipt of the State pension. That matter is outside my control but there is nothing in this Bill that would affect it.
When the Bill was going through the Oireachtas, I realised it was somewhat incongruous that there was no representative of pensioners per se on the Pensions Board. I received representation on this matter from some of the umbrella bodies. It is open to the Minister to appoint an ordinary pensioner with some general knowledge of pensions. Equally, the pensioner representative could be taken from one of the interest groups such as the Irish Senior Citizens' Parliament, Age Action Ireland Limited or the National Council for Ageing and Older People, among others. I expect the pensioner chosen would have a particular interest in, and understanding of, pensioners' issues.
My officials have been in contact with Senator Ross in regard to the amendments prompted by him and passed in the Dáil and he is satisfied with what we put in place. As I explained in the Dáil no later than last evening, both I and my Department felt that we had gone as far as we could when we introduced the three year limit in the Bill initially. As a result of comments made in both Houses, we have extended that to six years. There is flexibility built into the legislation as drafted, which will allow the ombudsman, when appointed, to determine whether a particular dispute is caught by the six year rule. We believe it is better to leave the flexibility to the ombudsman rather than be more prescriptive in legislation.
I thank all the Senators and everyone who has been part of the process of enacting this legislation. In comparison to the reform of pension legislation in other EU countries this has been a relatively quick process. I thank all those involved in the national pension policy initiative on bringing forward their report. I thank the officers of the Pensions Board, particularly the chief executive officer, Ann Maher. I also thank the members of the board, both past and present, particularly Eamon Heffernan who was very much involved in bringing forward the national pensions policy initiative.
I thank the staff of my Department. I have been lucky in the past five years to have what I regard as the best staff across the public service. As always they have been excellent in the advice and explanation they have given to me as Minister. They have made my life much easier. I thank the staff of the Houses of the Oireachtas for the not inconsiderable difficulty, even up to the very last minute today, in regard to bringing forward this legislation.
We have put good legislation on the Statute Book and, as I said when I originally launched it, it is a generic thing which will be amended sooner rather than later, because of the monitoring and review provisions both in the legislation and in terms of the social partnership model. There are references to this issue being monitored under the existing PPF. I believe changes will be brought forward to this Bill as we move forward and that is a good thing. I was very much open to listening to submissions both inside and outside the House and we did it as much as we could. I would like to think that the next Government will also be accommodating in regard to making amendments to what is good legislation. Only time will tell.
Question put and agreed to.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."
I compliment the Minister on excellent cornerstone legislation. It reflects very well on his officials who were generally helpful on all occasions. I wish the Minister well with his Bill and I extend that wish to those who will, hopefully, benefit from the legislation.
On behalf of the Government benches, I thank the Minister and everyone else involved with bringing this excellent legislation before us. I also thank my colleagues on the other side of the House.
Question put and agreed to.
Sitting suspended at 3.50 p.m. and resumed at 4 p.m.