Skip to main content
Normal View

Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 4 Apr 2002

Vol. 169 No. 18

Civil Defence Bill, 2002: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Thank you, a Leas-Chathaoirleach, for agreeing to take the Bill today.

The main purposes of the Bill are to update the Civil Defence legislation generally and to provide for the establishment of the Civil Defence Board to co-ordinate the operations and future development of the Civil Defence and advise the Minister on policy issues. The creation of such a legislative framework was an important element in the Government's White Paper on Defence. I am happy that as the Minister with delegated responsibility for the Civil Defence I have honoured the policy commitment by bringing forward this Bill. The Bill provides for the establishment of a board of management to be known as An Bord Cosanta Sibhialta, or the Civil Defence Board, which will co-ordinate the operation and future development of the Civil Defence and advise the Minister on policy issues. Political accountability to the Oireachtas for the discharge of the board's functions will remain with me.

The Civil Defence was originally set up in 1950 to undertake non-combatant activities and to afford defence against an attack or disaster on the State or otherwise arising from war-like weapons, radioactive fallout, biological or chemical warfare. The Civil Defence currently operates under the Air Raid Precautions Acts of 1939 and 1946 and various local government Acts and statutory instruments. The Civil Defence branch of the Department of Defence facilitates, through the local authorities, Civil Defence responses for emergency relief. Each local authority provides civil defence services that are administered by the Civil Defence officer who reports to the county or city manager. There are currently approximately 6,000 volunteer members in the organisation. They are recruited within their local areas and are offered training in various skills, such as first aid, rescue, fire fighting, emergency feeding, searching and radiation monitoring.

Civil Defence members are dedicated and highly committed to the ideal of voluntary community service. The volunteer force is maintained at a modest cost and has maintained its voluntary ethos for more than 50 years. This trend will be continued and developed under the new legislation. Currently recruiting new members has proved difficult. There are a wide variety of alternative attractions available. Consequently, it is my intention that under this Bill the Civil Defence Board will devote a considerable portion of its energies to the recruitment of new members and to retaining the services of existing members.

Section 7 of the Bill is a key provision as it brings the Civil Defence Board into existence on "the establishment day". That day will be appointed by order of the Minister for Defence under section 4. Section 8(h) provides for the board to advise the Minister for Defence on policy matters relatingto civil defence or at the request of the Minister. The board will be comprised of individuals dedicated to the future development of the organisation and will carry out its functions in an independent manner and develop its own programmes as provided in section 8 of the Bill.

The board will have a function in promoting the role of the Civil Defence in providing services to the community and in developing programmes to enhance those services. While the Third Schedule sets out the type of community support programmes to be developed arising from section 8(3), it is not exhaustive and the board will be able to develop other community support services within the limits of its own resources.

Section 8(e) provides for the board to develop plans and improve standards of civil defence education, training, knowledge, skill and equipment. Provision is made in section 8(i) for the board to conduct and commission research and foster and promote contacts with educational institutions and other bodies engaged in civil defence activities both at home and abroad. There is provision in section 8(f) of the Bill for the board to promote public awareness programmes in relation to civil defence and I expect the board will use this provision to enhance the profile of the organisation.

However, I must recognise that in the post 11 September scenario the possibility of a deliberate or accidental disaster of major proportions affecting the nation could necessitate the Minister, with Government approval, having to recall the authority of the board for the duration of such an emergency. I have provided, therefore, for such a contingency in section 10, but I emphasise, however, that this provision could only be exercised in a major disaster situation and only with the full authority of the Government.

Section 11 deals with the composition of the Civil Defence Board which will comprise 14 members, the composition of which will have regard to appropriate gender balance. I am convinced that any more than 14 could prove rather unwieldy. The director general shall be a full member of the board in order to have a full and meaningful participation in the decision-making processes. The City and County Managers Association will be represented. They have operational control of the Civil Defence at local level and should have an input into all decisions affecting the future development of the organisation. The Bill also provides for up to four persons with external expertise to be members of the board. I envisage these persons to be broadly representative of commercial, industrial and administrative interests countrywide. The Bill also provides for a representative from the Department of the Environment and Local Government with experience of emergency planning to be represented on the board. The Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland will also be represented on the board. As Senators will be aware, the Civil Defence has a defined role under the radiological national plan. I am also inviting a representative of the Environmental Protection Agency to be a member of the board.

It is important that whatever first-line service is charged with combating a particular threat can call on the resources of the Civil Defence to support it. The Civil Defence Officers Association is a national organisation representative of Civil Defence officers and assistant Civil Defence officers. I consider it appropriate, therefore, that this organisation should be represented on the board. The Civil Defence operates closely with the Garda Síochána and also has links with the Defence Forces. Consequently, I consider it prudent that both organisations be represented on the board. The most important member of any voluntary organisation is undoubtedly the volunteer. I consider it important that the voice of the volunteer be available on the management board and I have provided for this in section 11(j)(i). In line with partnership and best practice, it is important that a member of staff is appointed to the board of management.

Section 11(4) provides for one member of the board to be designated as chairperson and section 12 contains related standard provisions regarding chairpersons. Section 14 provides for a permanent civil servant to be designated as the first director general of the board. It is important that the Civil Service expertise should continue in managing the Civil Defence of the future.

Section 15 provides for the board, as appropriate, to engage outside expertise which will be an important provision for the development of strategic planning in the organisation. Funding will be of vital importance to the board and provision is made in section 20 for the Minister to provide that funding by way of grant-in-aid to the board from the Defence Vote. The grant-in-aid will also provide for funding the salary and related costs for the staff of the board. Sections 22 and 23 contain standard provisions for dealing with gifts and for the accounts of the board to be prepared as appropriate and to be submitted to the Comptroller and Auditor General and also for the audited accounts to be laid before each House of the Oireachtas.

Provision is made at section 26 for the board to make an annual report and other reports to the Minister as he or she or the board might think fit. Section 27 provides for the Minister to give a direction to the board to use, provide or lend equipment as appropriate should the Minister consider it necessary to alleviate a particular situation. Section 28 provides for the board to establish committees of the board, particularly three named committees to carry out the work of the board. Section 30 provides for the board to submit a strategic plan to the Minister setting out its key objectives and strategies and reviewing the plan every three years. Section 31 provides for each local authority to submit a Civil Defence plan to the board and these plans are intended to form the basis for the board to submit its plan to the Minister under section 30. I am confident this process of strategic planning will permeate throughout the organisation from management down to the newest recruit, lead to a sense of ownership at all levels and give new focus to the overall development of the Civil Defence.

The First Schedule provides for the definition of the Civil Defence to be identical to that already contained in the Geneva Conventions (Amendment) Act, 1998, and also allows sufficient scope for the board to develop the organisation into the future.

I am happy to have had the opportunity to shape and advance the statutory framework for the future development of the Civil Defence. This Bill is a landmark development as it is the first Civil Defence legislation in more than 50 years. I look forward to hearing the views of Senators on the Bill and I commend it to the House.

I welcome the Bill which is necessary. The Civil Defence has been left on the back burner. It has not received due recognition since its foundation in 1950, yet its officers throughout the country, who are appointed by the local authorities, do wonderful work and manage to instil a sense of service and public duty in the volunteers. As the Minister rightly said, it is becoming increasingly more difficult to recruit volunteers. Part of the reason for that is the manner in which the Civil Defence has been treated over the years. The funding and premises provided to the Civil Defence have been secondary if not tertiary. It is not an understatement to describe them as representing Third World standards. There needs to be more commitment and I am delighted that the Minister of State is in the House. It is interesting that the Minister for Defence does not take direct responsibility for the Civil Defence. It should be more closely involved with the Department and the Minister and there should be closer liaison with other agencies such as the FCA and the Army. A lot of the work done by the Civil Defence is similar to that done by other defence agencies, the only difference being that it is a non-combatant organisation.

The responsibilities and powers of the Civil Defence are outlined in the Bill and I welcome the formation of the board. That will be important if it is properly utilised. I hope that it is not simply used as one more board where various people can be placated with appointments. I hope it is seen to be and will be a purposeful board, used to advance the Civil Defence.

In our changing society and times, there will be an increased need for the Civil Defence. The work that it undertakes currently and the powers the Minister has outlined are very important. What we see of the Civil Defence is an organisation working locally under the jurisdiction of local authorities, assisting other organisations such as the ambulance and fire services and, in some cases, engaging with the FCA and the Army. Where there are large gatherings of people, it also works with the Garda authorities. The Civil Defence does this work very effectively and recruit training is ongoing in various centres around the country. Over 6,000 people, including 150 in County Clare, have proper Civil Defence training.

There should be an increase in positive publicity and recruitment. The Minister should engage in an education process in schools, particularly for fifth years and those in transition year. Young people at that age should be encouraged to actively participate in the Civil Defence. If that was done, many young people who are currently engaging in other activities, who are becoming addicted to drugs for the want of something better to do and who have no sense of purpose in life could be usefully channelled in this direction. The Civil Defence and the FCA are on the ground in every county and could be more effective in enhancing our community and society and in curbing the increase in crime. I ask the Minister for Defence, in conjunction with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Minister for Education and Science, to look at that possibility. There is an opportunity to do something positive.

The Civil Defence, like any organisation, cannot function effectively unless it has proper funding behind it and the national allocation for Civil Defence has been abysmal over the years. The equipment of the Civil Defence is substandard in most cases and that is not encouraging for those involved. They find it hard to keep their spirits up and the establishment of the board may be the vehicle that is required to instil that extra bit of vigour in the organisation. I ask the incoming Minister, when he appoints members to the board, to take into account that the board needs those with a real sense of public service and public duty. They should have a generosity of spirit and a vision of how the Civil Defence can be better utilised and how it can become more attractive to recruits. If that type of person is brought in to the board there will be a spin-off effect for the country.

The section relating to consultants is unnecessary if the board which is appointed has the necessary expertise and commitment. Practical common sense is what is needed in relation to the Civil Defence, as well as a knowledge of community relations. It is nonsense to pay consultants enormous fees to put on paper what is basic common sense. Increasingly, boards and Ministers are abdicating their responsibilities to consultants and programme managers. The Minister should leave that section out of the Bill.

I am delighted that a member of the Defence Forces is to be included on the board. That is important because of the close liaison between the organisations and the similarity of what they both do. It is important that link is consolidated. I would go further than the Bill and believe that the Minister for Defence should take more direct responsibility rather than surrendering it to the Department of the Taoiseach. This area should be integral to the Department of Defence. The Minister has rightly said that the Civil Defence has statutory responsibility under the radiological protection legislation and it is important that a member of the Radiological Protection Institute is also on the board.

In the past, the Civil Defence dealt with a limited range of duties but we never know what to expect in current times. As an island nation we can never be sure of our requirements, particularly at our ports and airports. The 11 September attacks changed the situation across the world and increases our level of responsibility, although I will not get into a debate on radiological protection and iodine tablets. I ask the Minister of State to elaborate on how the Civil Defence would operate and how it would be equipped in a major emergency situation. What is its role and function? How does the Minister of State see its operation in the community? The role of the Civil Defence should be better defined. Its members need clarity in relation to their role. We should be clear about this and try to expand what they do.

Sections 16 and 17 are standard sections. In relation to funding, we have had no indication as to what grants the Minister may be in a position to pay. That will depend on the Minister for Finance and the strength of the case that the Minister for Defence makes. However, it would be nice to have some indication on this aspect because the effectiveness of the Civil Defence will depend on how well funded and equipped it is. Section 27 of the Bill states that, in relation to the directions of the Minister with regard to equipment, the Minister may, from time to time "give a direction in writing to the board requiring it to use, provide or lend equipment specified in the direction for such purpose and on the terms and conditions that the Minister directs". I hope it will not be like the urban district council which did not even have pumps to pump water off the streets when flooding arose. That council had to hire equipment from a local contractor. Basic common sense equipment such as pumps to pump water off streets and houses when flooding occurs is the type of equipment which the Minister should consider providing to the Civil Defence. I do not think there is too much equipment in any Civil Defence stores around the country that is suitable for mending but perhaps the Minister of State has information that I do not have.

Every local authority has a Civil Defence officer who is responsible for the drafting of a civil defence plan. In County Clare, Liam Griffin has been doing that job very effectively and very successfully. He does a remarkable job despite the meagre equipment and funding at his dis posal. He has imbued in the recruits a spirit of civic commitment and long may that last. I welcome the Bill and I hope the Minister will provide funding and equip the Civil Defence so that its members can carry out their duties in an effective manner rather than in a slipshod fashion.

I commend the Minister for introducing this Bill. It is the first Civil Defence Bill in 50 years and as such breaks new ground. All Members will agree that the role played by the Civil Defence is very important. It is an important aid to the civil power. The Minister proposes to establish a board and this is a major step in giving the Civil Defence a degree of responsibility for its own affairs. The White Paper commits the Government to providing the necessary infrastructure and training to enable the Civil Defence to continue to develop its capacity to respond to emergencies as a high quality second line emergency service and to facilitate community support activities while preserving the voluntary nature and ethos of the organisation. The voluntary ethos of the organisation is extremely important but as the Minister of State and Senator Taylor-Quinn said, it is becoming increasingly difficult to attract recruits. I am pleased to see that the Minister is taking some measures to assist in that regard.

The provision of services has a cost implication. The Government has responded with the provision of an additional £500,000 to the Civil Defence budget for 2000 and beyond. In addition to staffing the Department's civil defence branch, total expenditure by the Department in 2001 will be £3.2 million and this level of expenditure on civil defence is expected to be maintained over the period to 2004.

Senators on the other side of the House made reference to the type of equipment provided to the Civil Defence. The graph for the period 1996 to 2000 shows that expenditure on equipment in 1996 was £619,000 and in 2000 was £1.046 million, almost a 90% increase.

The Minister seeks to establish a board which will be dedicated to the Civil Defence. The stakeholders, including a representative of the City and County Managers' Association and a representative of the volunteers in the organisation, will be on the board. This will give de facto recognition to the great contribution made by the voluntary sector.

The Government is committed to providing the necessary framework for the future development of the Civil Defence by modernising the legislation governing it. The Civil Defence organisation is administered on the basis of local authority areas rather than on a county or city basis. There are 32 local authority administrative areas and at present there are approximately 6,000 active volunteers in the organisation. There are 3,000 trained persons who are no longer active but are available in emergencies. On the basis of the most recent available figures, the gender balance within the organisation breaks down fairly evenly between male and female members. I am sure there are certain organisations who will welcome that situation because that level of gender balance is not always achieved in other organisations.

Section 31 is particularly important. It provides that each local authority will submit a civil defence plan to the board. These plans are intended to form the basis for the board's submission to the Minister under this section. This is an operational plan which will allow the relevant Civil Defence organisation to make proposals in its plan to the board. It will allow the organisation to describe its objectives and suggest remedies to correct the shortcomings.

The operational activities currently performed by the Department of Defence will be transferred to the board and the Minister will retain control of policy functions. I have been a member of a local authority for over 22 years and I wish to pay tribute to the Civil Defence organisation in my home county of Westmeath. I wish to pay tribute to the current Civil Defence officer, Brian Gillen, to the former Civil Defence officer of many years standing, Patsy Sheridan, who gave sterling service, and to Seán O'Riordan. I support this timely Bill and I commend the Minister.

I thank Senators Taylor-Quinn and Glynn for their comments. Senator Taylor-Quinn spoke about the board membership and the necessity to have people on the board who know what they are doing. I support that proposal. The Minister of the day will have four nominations out of a total of 14. The other ten will be nominated by the Garda, the Defence Forces and other nominated bodies. When making appointments I am sure the Minister will ensure that they are four eminent people. The point about education and transition year is well made and is a good idea. I will ask the new board to put in place some programme which allows them to target transition year students. The new board may be able to liaise with the Department of Education and Science and with the schools.

Senator Taylor-Quinn also spoke about funding. Senator Glynn mentioned that funding in 1996 was £600,000, while funding this year amounts to €4.1million. That gives them scope to buy new equipment, upgrade apparel, invest in a public recruitment programme and do the kinds of things they want to do.

The kind of Civil Defence described by Senator Taylor-Quinn is the image that many people have of it. That is why I want to put the new board in place. It will promulgate its own story and tell of its successes. The old image of not having the equipment and being described as some kind of "Dad's Army" is somewhat unfair and does not fit the modern Civil Defence. The Civil Defence today is modern, funded, spirited and increasingly has top class equipment. There is much more to do in that area and I want to set up the board so that it could have an overview and develop the organisation. Up to now the structure was such that a senior official in the Department of Defence was the director and much of the policy came from that source. That did not really permit all the partners in the Civil Defence to sit around the table and develop the future of the organisation. They can now do that and that will be exciting.

I particularly asked them to look at recruitment and to tell of the work they do to attract more members. They do fantastic work. There are 6,000 volunteers who go out every week. They are involved in search and rescue, crowd control, aiding the civil power and first aid. It is becoming increasingly complex and they are there when they are needed.

I take this opportunity to thank them for the fabulous work they did during the foot and mouth disease crisis last year. I know all Senators will agree with me on that. They manned the ports and other points of entry. They were in the front line of keeping that scourge under control and from our shores. When people ask what the Civil Defence does, we can now point to that, but that is not all. If it can do that, it can do much more.

Senator Taylor-Quinn asked about consultants. The Bill contains an enabling provision in this respect. A consultant free world would be wonderful, but it is not realistic. Any modern board needs the facility to use such a service if it needs it. It would not be possible to ban it from reaching for that support if it wants it. Many people may share the Senator's view. Boards and Ministers should seek to solve problems themselves before reaching for consultants to give them the answer they want so they can then fight for it.

There is excessive use of consultants often for the wrong reasons. Over the years, I have seen boards and Ministers from different parties know exactly what had to be done, but they did not have the confidence to do it without a big consultant's report containing hundreds of pages. This allowed them to tell their colleagues they were only doing what the consultant said. I share the view that is an abdication of responsibility. It is acceptable to use consultants for something that is complicated, but Ministers and boards should not use them as an excuse for doing something they should do themselves.

The Civil Defence is nothing to do with the Department of the Taoiseach. Legally, I am the Minister of State at the Department of Defence also. The Civil Defence reports to the Department of Defence. I also happen to be in the Department of the Taoiseach.

I forgot about the Minister's dual mandate.

That is not what I do all day.

He is quite able also.

They are both pensionable and we dare not question that. He should be a senior Minister.

The Minister, Deputy Michael Smith, probably has enough to do anyway. I join Senator Glynn in paying tribute to the Civil Defence and thank him for outlining the figures and welcoming the plan. As he said, this legislation, the first in over 50 years, was overdue. The fact that the Houses of the Oireachtas did not legislate for this organisation shows that we have neglected it. We are now making up for that by introducing a modern structure that will allow the Civil Defence to grow into the next century. It is incumbent on us all to give it our full support because we never know when we will need it. I thank it for all the work it does.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

Now.

Agreed to take remaining Stages today.

Top
Share