The proposed Order of Business is No. 1, motion seeking the approval of the Seanad for the regulations in draft on the Freedom of Information Act, 1997 (Prescribed Bodies) Regulations, 2002, to be taken without debate; No. 2, motion on a Council decision concerning the signing of the agreement between the European Community and the Government of the Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China on the readmission of persons residing without authorisation; No. 3, motion on a Council decision concerning the conclusion of the agreement between the European Community and the Government of the Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China on the readmission of persons residing without authorisation, to be taken together with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes; No. 4, motion re Council regulation on a European enforcement order for uncontested claims and matters of judgment in matrimonial matters and in matters of parental responsibility – spokespersons will have eight minutes and all other speakers will have five minutes; No. 5, Minister for the Environment and Local Government (Performance of Certain Functions) Bill, 2002 – all Stages by agreement, with ten minutes for spokespersons and eight minutes for all others; and No. 6, Electoral (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 2002 [Dáil] – all Stages by agreement, with ten minutes for spokespersons and eight minutes for all others.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreed. While there are many issues we would like to raise this is not the appropriate day to do so. I join Senator Dardis in paying tribute to the Cathaoirleach. I spoke in appreciation of his full contribution previously. In everything he has done he has added lustre to this House. He is a credit to Irish politics and has set a high standard for whoever follows him. Whoever that is will have to work hard to live up to him. He has been a credit to the House. I thank him and his staff for all they have done.
I congratulate those Members who were elected to the Lower House. I do not know why they wanted to leave the Seanad but they did. Given the exodus from the side opposite I am tempted to call a division on the Order of Business – we might just win it – but I will not. To those who fought but were not elected, their turn will come. I congratulate Senator O'Rourke and Senator Mackin on their appointment to the Seanad. Senator O'Rourke and myself were elected on the same panel, on the same day, to Seanad Éireann 21 years ago next month. We have both been Members of Parliament since that time.
I remember on the day I was made Government Chief Whip getting a bemused look from the late Senator Willie Ryan. It struck me then that to be elected to Parliament is a great privilege. Now, 21 years later, I still feel there are few greater privileges in life than to be a Member of one's national Parliament. I thank Senator Dardis for his kind words earlier. I wish all my other colleagues who are not running for election, all close friends of mine, the best for their future after politics.
I will say a few parting words here. To those in the new Seanad, I say, embrace change. We live in a world that is changing rapidly and this House must accept that there is a real need for change. We should also remember that there are certain distinctive values in this House which should never be lost. Among those I single out the huge sense of courtesy which exists in the House, the willingness to let people have their say as fully and fairly as possible, the respect for each other, the independence of mind which characterises many of the debates and the detailed scrutiny of legislation. The word guillotine is never used in this House and I hope it never will be. In embracing change I urge colleagues in the new House to see ways to add value to politics through the House especially in the larger European role for the House, in continuing a detailed scrutiny of legislation and in allowing debate on issues which are rarely touched upon in the other House.
I would like to comment on the quality of Members in this House. The former Senator Joe Lee, in an interesting debate here, said how he came in expecting a low level of debate, equivalent perhaps to county council level. He realised quickly that the Members of this House, especially those who have come through local government, have to be masters of a wide range of issues. They have learned at the hard school, but they are in touch with the real problems of ordinary people and have a thorough knowledge of public administration. Their debates have a sense of reality which one often will not find, according to the comparison made by Senator Lee, in the Faculty of Arts at UCC.
When the former Senator Lee compared the learned academics of UCC's Faculty of Arts to the Members of this House he found there was a much greater sense of reality and breadth of vision among the latter group. Following his examination of Deputies' performances during the last Dáil, the broadcaster Vincent Browne was surprised to discover that there was a high level of quality among our public representatives. Those of us who have served in this House will not be surprised, however, when I state Members of this House perform at a similarly high level. Perhaps the new Seanad should take care to make these facts better known.
The final point I wish to make relates to Independent Senators, both university Senators and those who have been appointed by successive Taoisigh. Gordon Wilson, John Robb, Seamus Mallon, Senator Maurice Hayes, Bríd Rodgers and others have made contributions of an extraordinary quality to this House and long may it continue. The Independent Senators who sit on the Opposition benches are elected by a discerning electorate and are genuinely independent. They are not elected as single issue or grievance candidates. The quality of their contributions makes this House quite distinctive and gives it a cutting edge. I know this is a controversial matter at the moment, but I believe independent Senators deserve to be elected because of the contribution they make to this House.
This is the final occasion on which I will address the House on the Order of Business. I know I will see the Cathaoirleach again, as with Senators Liam Cosgrave, Joe Doyle, Mick Lanigan, Fintan Coogan and me, he is part of an equine enterprise which embraces both Houses and almost all parties.
It is not looking too good.
The enterprise will bring us together on many future occasions, I hope with success and profit. I thank my friends in the House and assure them that I intend to stay in touch. I hope I have been of some service. I have enjoyed every moment of my time here.
It behoves me to welcome the two new Members of this House, Senator Mackin and Senator O'Rourke. I have not worked closely with Senator Mackin, but look forward to doing so in the future. Senator O'Rourke and I have been through the eye of many storms together, sometimes on the same team and sometimes coming from opposite directions. We learned how to work together during that period of time and I await further such endeavours. I wish both Senators well and look forward to hearing their contributions, which I know will be worthwhile and add significantly to the quality of debate in the House.
At the last meeting of this House I outlined my views on the extraordinary and effective work of Senator Brian Mullooly during his time as Cathaoirleach of the Seanad. Those of us in the ranks believe he has acted with integrity, honesty, absolute commitment, fairness and equity. I reiterate the comments I made on 25 April – that I am proud of him as Chairman of this House, as a teaching colleague and as a fellow member of a certain organisation. I wish him well in his retirement. His work is appreciated by the organisation and the teaching profession as a whole. He has brought his many qualities to bear on this House with much distinction.
I would also like to remark on the fact that this is Senator Des Hanafin's last day as a Senator. Our relationship has been defined in many ways by our differences of opinion, but also by the closeness of our discussions since I became a Senator. I have always found him to be a fair and honest man. As I have said to him on many occasions, he broke a rule I held for many years. While I may not have liked his friends, I like him very much. I remember my grandmother saying, "Show me your friends and I will tell you what you are." I saw Senator Hanafin's friends before I saw him and he is not what they are – he is a far finer man than any of those with whom he associates. I cannot give him a greater compliment than that. I thank him for his contribution to the House.
It is appropriate to mark the passing from this House of former Leaders. I have worked very closely with Senator Mick Lanigan during the years. He has made a solid contribution to our business, particularly when he brought his own perspective to foreign affairs matters. Some may say it is a broad perspective while others would argue that it is narrow, but one cannot argue that he will not be remembered for it. Similarly, Senator Donie Cassidy, as outgoing Leader of the House, deserves to be mentioned.
I do not doubt that he will regale us on many occasions with his record of 105,000 new pieces of business which were brought before the House in his time as Leader. This is a record for which he wishes to be remembered. His tireless hassling of Ministers to ensure legislation was brought to this House is something we valued highly and for which I thank him. On his last day I thank Senator Farrell for his contributions. He was always available when someone was needed for committees. When someone was needed to make a contribution, he was never found wanting and had total commitment to the House.
The House will be pleased to hear that I met Senator Tom Fitzgerald at a very sad funeral in Dingle last week. He is in the best of health and is very active.
The Leas-Chathaoirleach, Senator Liam Cosgrave, was also very approachable. He did his work with diligence and it is sad that he is the last in that family, the third or fourth generation, to make a contribution to the State and we wish him well.
I will conclude by making reference to the Fine Gael leader in the House, Senator Maurice Manning. During my 16 years in this House he is the person with whom I probably worked most closely. I regret that he will not be a Member of the next House. His contribution was continuing and long lasting. It is also a fact that his contribution may be very well recorded in the annals of the House in terms of what he said. However, what will not be recorded is his contribution to a myriad of committees. I can think of long summers spent going through boring sessions on Standing Orders, questions on ethics and questions on changing the approach of the House. He was open to new ideas, committed to making the Seanad work and he was of the view that we should be topical, responsible and make progress. His diligence is a model to all of us. He has brought some style as well as some service to the House and his commitment is there to be marked.
Among other things, because of the way the House has worked, particularly in dealing with each other – we often do not keep records of conversations and so on – during that 16 years, I never once had reason to contradict what Senator Manning said. He has always been honest, straight and direct, which is the mark of him as a politician and as a man. I always found it so easy to do business with him both on the opposite side of the House as leader and on this side as leader of Fine Gael. It has been a pleasure to work with him and I hope he will continue to contribute to public life. I cannot imagine him not doing so. He will be a loss to the House and I thank him.
It would be remiss of us on this side of the House to agree to take all Stages of a Bill and not to take a stand on this issue. We would never agree on this occasion, particularly as we have the summer to deal with the legislation. I do not know what hurry is on the Government at this stage and I ask the Leader of the House to give a commitment that the House will resume next Tuesday.
Hear, hear.
There are three reasons for this – two extraordinary publications and the continuation of today's business. I do not think today's business should be rushed. People have much to say in regard to the Electoral Bill, not just the narrow business but the broader issues which need to be discussed. The benchmarking report will be published next Monday and I know that my colleague, Senator Ross, would find it very unusual if he was not in a position to stand up and support improvements for members of the public service. The Ansbacher list will be published on Tuesday morning. Both these publications are tied together because the people who were not paying their taxes will be the same as those who say we should not pay our civil and public servants. I would like to have that broad discussion next Tuesday afternoon. The benchmarking body's report is something on which everyone is going to have a word and a classic example of the kind of thing we need to address to maintain the relevance of this House.
These are the two most topical issues that will be in the news over the next fortnight and we should be present to deal with them. There is much criticism of the Seanad at the moment. We have had sexist and ageist abuse of all types hurled at us. This is an occasion on which to put things on the record and deal with issues. Next week's two publications will allow us to express a different view on Irish life. I ask that the Leader make a commitment on the basis that we do as much business as possible today in order not to rush to force conclusions on these matters.
Mr. Ryan
Tá mé ar aon aigne leis na Seanadóirí eile fút féin agus faoin tslí inar chomhlíon tú na dualgaisí a bhí agus atá ort mar Chathaoirleach ar an tSeanad agus mar bhall de Choimisiún an Uachtaráin, nuair ba ghá duit sin a dhéanamh. Is trua go bhfuil an cinneadh déanta agat. Is cailliúint mhór í do Sheanad Éireann agus don Oireachtas go bhfuil tú chun imeacht uainn.
Apart from those who have chosen to do so, we will not know for another few weeks whom among us will leave the House. I note that the Cathaoirleach arrived here 21 years ago at about the same time I did, which perhaps gives new emphasis to the "sean" in "Seanadóirí". I have to agree, however, with Senator O'Toole. One example of the election literature I received quoted the average age of the three NUI Senators. Knowing Senator O'Toole's and my own age and unless I am wrong by about 20 years regarding Senator Quinn's, the person whose literature it was cannot do her sums. It put Senator Quinn's age at about 75 at least. Not only was it ageist, it also was wrong.
I would again like to go through the list of my colleagues who are retiring and say, contrary to what is written about us and politicians and politics generally, I have always been treated honestly and honourably in this House. While I have had major rows with Members of the House, I do not recall anybody ever telling me something and doing the opposite. That is a very basic standard, but not one I am used to in my dealings with, for instance, sections of the media or many other areas of life. I have found Members of the Oireachtas to be mostly wrong about most things – I have tended to be in a minority – but also to be honourable and decent people who have treated me honourably and fairly, something that needs to be said over and over again.
The politics in which we are involved is the most honest kind. The rules are in the open, as is the competition and its framework. Media, academic and medical politics have no rules and are not conducted openly. In ecclesiastical politics, which has even less rules, people are supposed to pretend they are not in contention for anything and advertise their modesty. There is a level of competition is according to rules most of us would find quite appalling.
The Members who are leaving have every reason to say what they did in this House was honourable, right and decent. I mention only one of my colleagues by name, because he and I were on differing sides of a number of issues. Senator Hanafin did a great service to causes with which I disagreed due to the honourable way he conducted his campaigns. I have said in the House before that never in all of the contentious issues did he say a bad word about his opponents. He was able to debate issues without attributing unworthy motives to others. I wish him well in his retirement.
I also wish well the outgoing Fine Gael leader in the House, Senator Manning. I do not think I ever had a serious disagreement with him, although I annoyed him on many occasions. It is beginning to trouble me that I have a capacity to annoy people.
Never.
Mr. Ryan
I left before I was kicked out. The people who are leaving the House have served the House and politics well in their time and politics is well served by the existence of Seanad Éireann. I wish commentators would read the debates and look at the work before they start making silly comments about the role of Seanad Éireann.
To be true to myself, a Chathaoirligh, we in the Labour Party are not very keen on the idea of having a regulation on the Freedom of Information Act passed without debate, as proposed in the Order of Business. It is a bad idea in principle and, second, this morning's newspapers announced that the benchmarking body will be excluded from the Freedom of Information Act. The submissions it receives and the information it assembles are all of extreme importance both to trade unionists and to many academic researchers, but this enormous amount of information will be kept secret, presumably until the documents arrive in the National Archives and are released in 30 years' time. I know that I am testing the patience of the Cathaoirleach but he is very good at having his patience tested. If that body holds commercially sensitive information, there should be an appropriate occasion to discuss that in the context of the regulations on freedom of information. Therefore, I wish to propose an amendment to the Order of Business, that No. 1 be taken with debate. I suggest ten minutes for spokespersons and eight minutes for other speakers.
It is always with a sense of sadness that people retire from what may have been their life-time job and I feel a sense of sadness as I leave this House today. I have not been in good health for some time so I am looking forward to retirement. I wish to pay a special tribute to the Cathaoirleach not alone for the knowledgeable way in which he performed his duties, but also for his dignity which is very obvious to everybody in the House. I wish him many years of retirement.
Seán Lemass was asked on one occasion if the Seanad could be dispensed with and he said: "Yes, we could do without the Seanad, but we could not do without the Senators." That makes a lot of sense. As Senators we have always played a strong political role in our constituencies on behalf of our parties. If I was asked to describe myself, I would say that I am a very proud Fianna Fáil man and I know other people hold similar views about themselves and their parties. When I was elected to Seanad Éireann, I took my place on the backbenches and that is where I am still.
That is a proud place to be.
About 47 years ago I was elected to the county council and the following year I was elected chairman at the age of 23 years. I say with great pride that people like Dan Breen canvassed for me. Seán Lemass came to north Tipperary and spoke from the platform about the great future he foresaw for me in politics. Seán Lemass was seldom wrong, but he got it wrong on that occasion. I am not sure what I have achieved in my years in politics, but I have survived. Perhaps that is the big achievement.
I was nominated and elected by Fianna Fáil over 30 years ago when I was at a very low ebb. I was helped by some families which will go down in history, such as the Lenihan family, father and son, who gave me great help. Without them, perhaps I would not have been nominated on the first occasion. I contested the election for the Chair once with the then Senator Doherty. It was a draw and settled by drawing names out of a hat. My name did not come out and he became Cathaoirleach. I never wore a hat from that day to this.
I had the great privilege of working very closely with Jack Lynch who was a great man. I am very proud to have worked closely with him in the party. He was a good, kind and charitable man who did a lot to maintain peace on this island. Perhaps he never got the full recognition he deserved; he got some, but never as much as he should have received.
I have had proud moments in this House, of which one was a particular source of pride to me. A Minister of State was speaking on a Bill one day when someone mentioned that I was father of the House. I remember thinking at the time that there was nothing unique or unusual about being father of the House. There have been fathers of the House in the past and will be in future, but I wondered if a future father of the House would also be the father of the Minister. That was my proudest moment – when the Minister of State concerned spoke to us.