Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 1 Apr 2004

Vol. 176 No. 2

High Level of Alcohol Consumption by Young People: Statements.

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan)

I last spoke in this House on the high level of alcohol consumption on 11 December 2002 and listened to the very comprehensive and interesting debate which followed. Since that time the trial of four young people following the death of a young man, Mr. Brian Murphy, outside a nightclub in this city has tragically highlighted the extremes of what can happen as a result of the excessive misuse of alcohol. Subsequent newspaper articles on teenage drinking identified a pattern of under-age drinking, with binge drinking becoming the norm and with an increasing number of pupils arriving at school with hangovers.

As I stated in the House previously, binge drinking and drunkenness by young persons lead to a wide range of problems. Poor school performance, accidents, relationship and delinquency problems are common in young binge drinkers. A study among the school-going Irish reports that 35% of the sexually active respondents said alcohol was an influencing factor in their engaging in sexual activity. Alcohol misuse has also been identified as one of the main risk indicators in regard to teenage pregnancy. Unprotected sexual activity can give rise to an increased risk of sexually transmitted infections. During the past decade the incidence of sexually transmitted infection has increased by 165%.

Alcohol related offences committed by juveniles, such as assaults, public order offences, intoxication and possession of alcohol in a public place, have increased. In 2000, 3,800 alcohol related offences were committed by minors. This figure rose to 6,400 in 2001. What is also very worrying is the sharp increase in the number of young persons, especially young males in the 15 to 35 age cohort, who commit suicide. As has always been acknowledged, many factors can contribute to the act of suicide, but it must be acknowledged that alcohol misuse is a significant risk factor in the causation of suicide.

I would like to emphasise that the misuse of alcohol is not restricted to those underage or young categories. It affects all age groups within Ireland, which has had the highest increase in alcohol consumption among member states of the European Union in the past ten years. We have experienced a massive 41% increase in per capita alcohol consumption between 1989 and 1999. While this debate is focused on the issue of young persons drinking, it is important to point out the example for that drinking comes from the older generation. It is the practices in which we engage and the habits we form that influence the younger generation coming up.

Drinking by young persons is influenced by society as a whole. International research has demonstrated that the beliefs of young persons about the effects of alcohol and the desirability of those effects are acquired through observation, vicarious learning and the assimilation of cultural stereotypes. These messages are given to children before consumption of alcohol begins. Children have observed and vicariously learned and assimilated the cultural stereotypes that exist in this country about alcohol before they have any personal experience of it. This is a fundamental point. Research has shown that for those under 15 years of age, the most common sources of alcohol are taking it from the drink supply at home, being given it by their parents or having older siblings or friends buy it for them.

The health promotion unit of my Department has just completed a three year alcohol awareness campaign which has been very successful in developing media attention and generating public awareness on the issue. A new alcohol awareness campaign is currently being planned by the unit in association with the National Children's Office.

A strategic task force on alcohol was established by my colleague, the Minister for Health and Children, in January 2002. The remit of the task force was to recommend evidence based measures to Government aimed at reducing and preventing alcohol-related harm. The main thrust of its report, which was published in May 2002, was to protect health and public safety as well as creating an environment that enables people make healthy choices. Key areas included protecting children and reducing pressure on adolescents to drink, preventing and limiting harm in the drinking environment and preventing alcohol-related road accidents and deaths.

An interdepartmental group has been established to co-ordinate responses to the recommendations and is due to report to the Minister for Health and Children shortly. The task force is finalising its second report which will contain further recommendations aimed at reducing harm.

A responsible server training programme has been developed by the health promotion unit in association with the drinks industry group. The aim of the programme is to limit harm in the drinking environment by not serving to intoxicated customers and those underage and promoting alternative strategies to reduce drink driving. This programme is now being delivered by the hospitality training body, Fáilte.

The school, youth sector and college settings are the focal points for targeting young people to enable them to increase control over and to improve their health. Within the school setting, the introduction and implementation of the social and personal health education programme has been the focus of the past three years. Among the overall aims of this programme is the promotion of self-esteem and self-confidence, to enable students to develop a framework for responsible decision making and to promote physical, mental and emotional health and well being.

The national youth health programme is a partnership between the National Youth Council of Ireland, the health promotion unit of my Department and the youth affairs section of the Department of Education and Science. This programme continues to support youth organisations in becoming more health promoting through both topic-based training and comprehensive organisational training and development through the health promoting youth service initiative.

A framework for the development of a college alcohol policy has been produced by the health promotion unit, in association with the heads of the colleges and the Union of Students of Ireland. The framework provides guidelines which include measures on controlling promotion, sponsorship and marketing on the college campus, providing education and support services, as well as alternatives, and limiting harm in the drinking environment.

A number of research projects on alcohol related matters have been commissioned by the health promotion unit, including a survey to examine the impact of alcohol advertising on teenagers. The findings indicate that alcohol advertising has a strong attraction for teenagers as it portrays lifestyles and images which are part of their social setting.

In addition to these developments, the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 has responded to certain recommendations of the Commission on Liquor Licensing and the strategic task force on alcohol which address the problem of underage drinking. This includes an obligation on those aged between 18 and 20 years to have an age document with them in a bar after 9 p.m. This should assist licensees in complying with provisions in regard to underage consumption and the gardaí in enforcing the law. The Act has also enabled the progression of the recommendation relating to the restriction of children at certain times and circumstances from licensed premises where it prohibits, subject to a number of exemptions, persons under 18 years of age from the bars of licensed premises after 9 p.m.

I have outlined some of the many ongoing initiatives and projects initiated by the Government. However, I must stress that the process of changing the attitudes of young people to binge drinking and getting drunk depends on the attitude and intolerance of society in general to this behaviour being considered socially normal.

An Cathaoirleach

I wish to point out that the Order of Business, as agreed to 15 minutes ago, was that the Minister of State would be asked to conclude the debate at 12.25 p.m. Many Senators are anxious to speak on this matter and, as spokespersons have 15 minutes, they should consider sharing time. Although it is up to the spokespersons themselves to decide, it would be fair to the Chair and other Senators if they did so.

Mr. Norris

I have already offered to share time with my Fine Gael colleagues.

Ms Terry

This is an important issue about which I have called for debate for some time. I welcome the Minister of State and note he is representing the Minister for Health and Children as opposed to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, although the issue comes within the remit of both Departments. Therefore, it is good the Minister of State is here because he deals with both.

The issue of binge drinking and the spectacle of teenagers and young adults on our streets in a drunken state is of huge concern to all of us, particularly parents. How can we tackle this and what can we do? The Minister of State's contribution makes very good points. However, I would have liked to have seen more action in respect of what the Minister proposes to do. There is an onus on the legislators to do something to tackle this huge problem.

The proceedings of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children of 20 March 2003 also make for interesting reading. A number of consultants from various hospitals around the country were invited before the committee. Dr. Eamon Brasil from the Mater Hospital stated that in October 2001, his staff performed an audit of 1,500 consecutive attendances to the accident and emergency department over a 24 hour basis to see the effects of alcohol on patients. Some 76% of the forms were returned from 1,000 people. Alcohol was a factor in 24% of all attendances and 13% of those presenting were deemed by medical or nursing staff to be clinically intoxicated. Consumption of alcohol was the direct cause of the presentation to the emergency department in 10% of cases and was indirectly involved in approximately 14% of cases.

Therefore, alcohol affects not just the people who present in a drunken state to accident and emergency departments but also those who suffer at the hands of those who are in a drunken state. People who are drunk are also a danger to themselves in terms of falling over and receiving injuries. Dr. Mary Holohan of the sexual assault treatment unit of the Rotunda Hospital stated that a total of 60% of the clients they see have ingested alcohol. She went on to state: "The worrying aspect is that between 1998 and 2002, there was an increase from 6% to 27% in the number of cases where we were asked to evaluate the possibility of a sexual crime because the person concerned could not remember what had happened". The Minister of State alluded to such issues. It is extremely worrying that our young people are at such risk, particularly young girls, who drink so much that they do not know whether or not they have had a sexual encounter.

Dr. Chris Luke of Cork University Hospital stated that the majority of cases of child abuse and domestic violence and most cases of public disorder and violence on the streets of our cities are associated with drunkenness. He went on to state that more than 50% of domestic violence cases against females are alcohol related and at least 20% of inappropriate ambulance call outs are due to alcohol intoxication. It makes interesting reading. The cost of all this to the State through the health services is enormous.

The drinks industry has a huge responsibility in terms of how it advertises and presents its drink to all of us, but particularly in respect of its influence over young people. I have carried out some research on this matter and discovered from RGDATA that the off-licence market in Ireland is worth €1.2 billion, of which the multiples, including Tesco, Dunnes Stores and Superquinn, have two thirds of the market. I am concerned at the aggressive marketing being undertaken by some of these companies, particularly Tesco. These companies are selling drink at cost price to encourage people to come into the stores. We cannot stand over such aggressive marketing. The Director of Consumer Affairs is taking a case against Dunnes Stores for selling drink below cost. We must target these areas and ensure that drink is not being sold at cost price, or below cost price, to our young people. This is one of the reasons they drink so much. Supermarkets are not selling drink below cost for the good of their customers' health. They are doing so for profit. Nevertheless, while making profit they must be cognisant of the damage they may be doing to young people. The Groceries Order covers the drinks industry and I am glad the Director of Consumer Affairs is keeping a watchful eye on this area.

The issue of advertising must be tackled. Supermarkets think nothing of taking out four page advertisements in Sunday newspapers, admittedly not only for drink. Aggressive marketing is influencing young people to buy drink at low prices.

One of the doctors who spoke at the Joint Committee on Health and Children referred to the danger of stimulant drinks, particularly to young girls, among whom they are popular. Stimulant drinks quickly make people very drunk. He said:

I am especially worried about stimulant drinks, especially those taken by young girls. Heretofore, people drank a certain amount, got drunk and began to lose control. Stimulant drinks allow them to drink more, keep going and get ossified. They are also in control and do a lot of damage if they want. A drunk with a stimulant drink can engage in an assault whereas a drunk without it would probably miss and fall over.

We often wonder how young people who have had a great deal to drink can be so aggressive. According to the doctor this is due to the effect of stimulant drinks, which make the drinker aggressive.

I have heard the Minister for Health and Children speaking about banning drink in certain places and banning alcohol advertising. We are, more and more, becoming a nanny state. I do not wish to see more laws enacted. I want to see the laws we have being enforced. The Intoxicating Liquor Act makes it an offence for any person to be present in a public place while intoxicated to such an extent as would give rise to a reasonable apprehension that the person might endanger themselves or any other person in the vicinity. How many people have been arrested under that provision? The Act also prohibits the supply of intoxicating liquor to drunken persons by licensees, as well as drunkenness in the bars of licensed premises. How many licensees have been prosecuted for serving drink to people who are already in a drunken state? Another provision states that a drunken person shall not be allowed into a bar, and where a person is drunk on leaving the licensed premises it shall be presumed that the person was drunk while on the premises unless the contrary is proved. How many licensees have been prosecuted under that provision?

The Intoxicating Liquor Act requires that any drink sold in an off-licence must show the name and address of the licensee. That measure has not been enforced, although it would be extremely helpful. Young people are drinking in parks and other public places which is, of course, illegal. Last weekend, I informed the Garda of anti-social behaviour by a number of young people who were openly drinking in a public place. The gardaí did not come; I presume they had more serious business to attend to.

I outline a number of provisions already in place which, if they were enforced, would make a difference. We must not always target young people. Some of the older members of our community do not give good example in this regard. We need to see gardaí on the street arresting people who are in a drunken state and a danger to themselves and others. People will then see there is no point in getting drunk. We have seen the effect of penalty points on motorists. Enforcement is the answer. We know that young people are drinking to excess and arriving in hospitals as a result. Why are gardaí not enforcing the laws which are already there?

I do not want to hear of prohibition from the Minister for Health and Children, as has happened in the case of cigarettes. The message of enforcement must go back to the Minister. The issue of selling drink at cost price, which is unacceptable, must be tackled. I hope these matters will be addressed by the Minister.

Mr. J. Walsh

May I share time with Senator Kitt?

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. J. Walsh

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Bhí sé anseo cheana nuair a pléadh an ábhar seo. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil suim mhór aige ann.

This topic commands significant public attention at present, of which the number of Senators wishing to speak is indicative. Much of Irish society revolves around social drinking, and there is nothing wrong with that. No matter what country one visits in Europe, throughout the world and in places as far away as Shanghai and Beijing, one comes across a traditional Irish pub. This is an aspect of our culture which we have exported to other countries. There is much to be said for social drinking.

However, moderation is the key and our record in this area flies in the face of moderation. A recent EU report states that the percentage of Irish people who drink alcohol on a regular basis is more than double the EU average. When alcohol consumption rates across EU member states were compared it emerged that regular consumption was highest in the Republic of Ireland, where 52% of the population drink regularly. This compared with rates of 44% in Denmark and Great Britain and 43% in the Netherlands. The lowest consumption rates were in Italy, at 12%, and Spain, at 19%. Overall, a quarter of EU citizens regularly drink alcohol, ranging from 6% of women and 19% of men in Italy, to 40% of women and 64% of men in Ireland. When different age groups were looked at, Ireland had the highest percentage of regular drinkers in all but the 55 to 64 age group. Obviously, it takes us some considerable time to realise that moderation should be the order of the day.

In the 15 to 24 age group, 52% of Irish people are regular drinkers compared to just 10% in Italy, 16% in Portugal and 18% in France. In the 24 to 34 age group the pattern is the same. Some 66% of Irish people are regular drinkers compared to 10% in Italy, 20% in Austria and 45% in Britain. Some 40% of women and 64% of men drink compared to the EU average of 25%. We should aim to reach the EU average. That shows us the scale of the challenge. However, it is not only the Government and State agencies which should tackle this issue. Each person has free will and we are all masters of our own destiny to some degree. People must exercise self-discipline and play their part. I do not subscribe to the notion that everything is the responsibility of the State and that people do not have individual responsibility. This problem affects all age groups.

A report published in 1999 showed that more than half of young people had experience of alcohol before the age of 12, which is alarming. Senator Terry mentioned teenage drinking habits and their wide-ranging social effects. That must be highlighted. I spoke to a friend recently who is my age and who owns a hotel. He said that when we were young we only had enough money to buy a few pints, but we enjoyed having a drink. He said he was amazed at young people today who go to his premises not to drink, but to get drunk. That is a significant difference.

Alcopops play a part in this regard. A recent survey found that the consumption of alcopops among girls has more than doubled, from 3% in 1998 to 8% in 2002. Consumption of spirits among girls has also increased, from 3.8% to 6.8% over the same period. There was a huge outcry from the drinks industry when the Minister for Finance put additional taxes on alcopops in the second last budget. Any moves which act as a disincentive will be opposed by the drinks industry. It is a powerful lobby and we should be conscious of that. However, it is up to the Government and to us as legislators to have the courage of our convictions and to ensure that our society is regulated in such a way as to benefit all citizens.

Binge drinking is a serious problem, particularly among young people. It is a factor in alcoholism, which is a disease. It should be avoided by young people who are starting out in life. It is both socially and medically damaging. It is accepted that people who drink to excess will have serious health problems in the future. It also contributes to poor school performance and to an increased number of accidents on the roads. We have had numerous debates about road traffic legislation. One major contributory factor to accidents, which is targeted by the gardaí and in legislation, is drink.

Senator Terry correctly alluded to the breakdown of relationships and the number of domestic violence cases, many of which have their roots in alcohol excess. As heavy drinkers or alcoholics know, this problem does not only affect themselves, but their spouses, partners and children. It impacts on a number of people. There are many good reasons for trying to regulate it. Teenage pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases, to which Senator Terry referred, are also problems associated with drink. Parents should engage with their children more than they do at present and point out the dangers and risks and the life changing effect it can have on people.

We have seen, as the Minister of State pointed out in his speech, the unfortunate consequences of drink, such as assaults, fights and, in some cases, deaths. Alcohol is also a significant factor in suicide. Our casual attitude to drink, both at home and elsewhere, must be tackled. Advertising was mentioned. The relationship between drink and sport is being addressed by the Government and by sporting organisations. A greater part must be played by schools and parents.

One factor which contributes to excessive drinking is the rounds culture we have in this country. People who go out for only one or two drinks often find themselves drinking five or six drinks because they become socially involved with other people. That is odd, although I do it, like everyone else. If a person is standing beside someone in the supermarket who is getting groceries, he or she will not offer to pay for them. However, if that person goes into a pub and someone is at the bar, he or she will buy him or her a drink. Perhaps a campaign should be started to end that culture. It might have some beneficial effect.

Mr. Kitt

I thank Senator Jim Walsh for sharing time. I welcome the Minister of State's comments. This debate is welcome and I hope we return to this subject on another occasion. The Minister of State mentioned other issues related to the population in general, rather than just young people. We should talk about the abuse of alcohol generally throughout the country.

Many good organisations have tried to assist young people through leisure activities, such as the Pioneer Total Abstinence Association, which organises many cultural, sporting and musical events. Dóthain, the Irish for enough, is an organisation in County Mayo which was pioneered by Dr. Michael Loftus. It promotes many leisure activities at which alcohol is not served. The best known organisation is the No Name Club, which was started in the south east but which has branches nationwide, including a strong presence in Galway. These organisations do good work. I despair when I hear young people saying they have nothing to do except drink because that is not true. Organisations such as the No Name Club organise a range of activities at which soft drinks are served. The only problem is that enough help is not given to these organisations. I was amazed to discover that the Department of Education and Science does not give much funding to the No Name Club, an issue I have raised previously.

The position regarding discos has been debated in this and the other House. There should be a better way of organising them so young people can go to a bar and order soft drinks rather than having the bar closed down and being given a soft drink on paying their admission at the door. This also brings into focus the regulation under which people under the age of 18 years have to leave a licensed premises at 9 p.m. I have been concerned about this because it is better to have families together instead of sending 17 and 18 years olds out onto the streets at 9 p.m. However, that is a debate for another day. In defence of the rural pub, it should be borne in mind that a huge amount of fund raising takes place in these pubs on behalf of schools, sports clubs and so forth. It might be a table quiz or a race night and it is unfair that people aged 16 or 17 must leave the premises at 9 p.m.

Like other Senators, I also object to the aggressive marketing of alcohol and to drinks promotions, whether it is by supermarkets or the drinks companies. I saw it occur again with the smoking ban. As soon as the smoking ban was announced, there was the same type of marketing by the drinks companies for new drink promotions in the pubs. I do not agree with that. I am appalled at the concoctions which are now being sold in pubs, particularly in the cities. One drink, which is known as a "fat frog", costs €15. Senator Walsh mentioned the practice of buying a round but if €15 is the price of one drink, one can easily imagine that young people will not have that type of money. Such high prices for drink can lead to other problems.

Reference has been made to poor school performance, delinquency problems, unprotected sex and the risk of sexually transmitted infections. These are directly related to the issue of alcohol consumption. An education programme in this regard should be considered. The other unfortunate problem is the violence that occurs, and it has been well reported, outside nightclubs and takeaways. These are matters which the Minister should consider, particularly the fact that nightclubs can remain open so late compared with the ordinary public house and that takeaways can open late under the planning laws. This is where much of the violence occurs and it is associated with drinking, especially binge drinking.

Mr. Norris

I wish to share time with Senator Cummins. I compliment the Minister on his brief, clear and logical speech. It is not necessary to repeat the figures but it is worrying that Ireland is how head of the EU table in terms of alcohol consumption. This is not civilised, sophisticated drinking where one enjoys a glass of wine or a liqueur but binge drinking.

This debate is on alcohol consumption by young people. The problem is caused by three factors. First, young people have a much higher disposable income than previously. Second, there is greater availability and greater visibility of drink products. Third, there is huge promotion of drink by multinationals. This is no longer Uncle Arthur but Diageo and other such companies. In their board rooms in New York and London, they look at a graph and realise they can squeeze the Irish market. They do not give a damn about the young people. There are decent pub owners and a decent way to drink but they do not reside in the board rooms of these companies.

I have put my money where my mouth is. Recently I was offered a fair amount of money to do work which would involve this type of promotion. However, I felt it would be dishonest since I had campaigned against this and raised the issue many times in the House. I did not do so in antagonism to civilised drinking but because I am concerned about the problem. I warned on previous occasions that there would be deaths in the O'Connell Street area if something was not done about it.

I am glad the issue of sexual behaviour was raised. We have heard a great deal about date rape drugs such as rohypnol. Unfortunately, in many cases it is not rohypnol. It is due to young women being so blind drunk they have no idea what is happening. I have seen them, and they have been shown on television, emptying the contents of their stomachs on the sidewalks of central Dublin. It is a most unattractive sight. I hope they feel ashamed and awkward about it afterwards. I do not wish them ill but there is almost no shame involved in it. We must try to change the culture for this reason.

I am glad Senator Kitt referred to the organisations dealing with this. People used to laugh at them. Fr. Matthew's Pioneer Total Abstinence Association did tremendous work and was necessary in the 19th century. These organisations are equally necessary now and they should be encouraged. People should not be told that they are not alive if they are not drinking alcohol. The advertising is terribly dishonest. It is also difficult to deal with because there is penetration of the airwaves by satellite television stations broadcasting from other countries. Almost universally the message is that one will have a fantastic sex life if one drinks as much as possible. That is as bad as telling young people in the Middle East that if they blow themselves up, there will be 71 virgins waiting for them on a cloud.

There is a responsibility on the community. I salute Dr. Mick Loftus. He is a former president of the GAA and he led a campaign, which cannot have been popular, to limit the promotion of drink at sporting events. He saw the dangers of linking sporting prowess with drink.

This Government had a remarkable success, and was courageous, in attacking the issue of smoking. It can do the same by taking vigorous action, even if it is unpopular, with regard to drink. It sometimes is unpopular. I have raised these concerns on many occasions and sometimes I have spoken intemperately. About 18 months ago I spoke twice on television on this subject and particularly about the way licences seem to pop up all over the place. I cannot say much about it because a member of the Judiciary, of whose existence I was completely unaware, believed I was referring to him personally and initiated proceedings against RTE. He received a substantial settlement before the matter went to court but because I did it again a few weeks later, another case is pending.

Mr. B. Lenihan

The Senator is safe enough in here.

Mr. Norris

Yes. However, I have no intention of speaking about it. As this matter is sub judice, it would be dishonourable of me to say the same things and I do not intend to do so. That person is entitled to protection from the immunity that I receive. I am being circumspect but when this is over I might be able to look at some of the other issues involved in the two cases.

I am concerned, however, that there is an inadequate relationship between the Judiciary and the Oireachtas. Judges criticise us and sometimes it is difficult if we criticise them in return. However, there should be a channel of communication. I am aware of situations where, for example, in an application for a licence, the public, police and the local authority objected but the licence was still granted. I am not criticising the judge. It may well be that there is a lacuna in the law and the judge is compelled to grant licences because of the way we drafted the law. We should examine this.

I am more worried than ever about this situation. I mentioned something yesterday on the Order of Business and I am repeating it today because of the Minister of State's presence. I came home from speaking at a dinner in the Weston Hotel last weekend. I walked through Westmoreland Street and O'Connell Street and called into a shop to buy a bottle of milk. I was struck that there were six packs of beer and bottles of wine available in the shop. To my astonishment, there were full bottles of whiskey on the top shelf. I asked the shop assistants about this in several shops. One of them was certainly not an Irish national and had difficulty speaking English. I wonder about his qualification to dispense alcohol at 11.10 p.m. on a Friday. He told me I could have a full bottle of whiskey. That is pouring petrol on an already dangerous situation and it should be stopped. If judges are compelled, because of our stupidity as legislators, to wallop out these licences, then we are remiss and must look at the situation. However, if that is not the case, then we should establish a proper mechanism for civilised communication between the judges and the Oireachtas so that this type of situation is avoided.

I have studiously tried not to apportion blame and not to breach the sub judice ruling even though if I was a mean-minded person, I probably could get away with it. Few sensible people would think it appropriate, when there is already a massive problem of public drunkenness in the city centre of Dublin and of other cities, for supermarkets staffed by inexperienced people to be allowed to hand out, not only six packs, but bottles of wine and whiskey. Everybody would agree there is something wrong with that and I hope the Minister of State will be able to address it.

Mr. Cummins

I thank Senator Norris for sharing time. I spoke on this issue in 2002 but have a few other points I would like to raise. There is no question but that the drink culture requires urgent attention. Urgent social change is required which will need tough decisions to tackle major vested interests. A public information plan is also required to deal with the health and educational aspects of alcohol abuse.

There is no use always blaming young people for the adverse affects of alcohol abuse. We live in a society where almost everything revolves around drink. It is no wonder young people are drawn into the drink culture long before they reach the legal age at which they are permitted to purchase alcohol. Recently, we saw the ludicrous situation where people sought extensions for holy communions so that drink could be served. It is absolutely crazy. Whether communions, confirmations, weddings or wakes, it is unfortunate that alcohol abuse is closely associated with these life events.

The links between sporting organisations and the drinks industry are another example of how young people, in particular, are targeted. Sporting occasions seem to be an excuse for open indulgence in alcohol. This is an area where a total change in social attitudes must occur but it will not happen overnight.

The cost of soft drinks in pubs, clubs and hotels is a disgrace. The mark up on these products cannot be justified. The price of soft drinks is so grossly inflated that one wonders whether this is for profit purposes only or an attempt to turn people off these products and attract them to alcoholic beverages instead. One would pay less for a pint in most places than for two small bottles of lemonade, Lucozade or Coke, which is a disgrace. The No Name Club and several other clubs have been mentioned. What chance do they have when the price of soft drinks and bottled water is grossly inflated?

Alcohol is an addictive drug and there is a need to educate young people about the destruction it causes. We have spoken about the effect people who suffer from alcoholism have on families. This disease causes problems in homes and beyond them. The health problems caused by over-consumption of alcohol and the damage it causes must be spelled out. It may be difficult to get young people to look 20 or 30 years into the future at the effects over-consumption of alcohol in their teenage years may cause, but we must convey that message. This is a challenge which must be tackled.

It is imperative that children in schools are educated about the effects of alcohol. The Minister of State spoke about greater health promotion in this area, and I fully agree with that. This must begin in the schools but we must also involve all of society in the educational process to achieve the major change which is absolutely necessary. There is no point lecturing young people if adults are not prepared to change their attitudes as well.

The number of suicides in recent years is dreadful. Each year there are more suicides than people killed on our roads. I urge that additional finance be given to the Irish Association of Suicidology and other organisations dealing with the question of suicide to research the relationship between alcohol and the incidence of suicides. I believe a significant number of people commit suicide because of the over-indulgence of alcohol.

As Senator Terry mentioned, we have quite enough laws. The enforcement of those laws is necessary. Rather than dwell on the legislation, I would prefer to concentrate on the health promotion and educational aspects of this major problem affecting our country. We must deal with this problem and rise to the challenge, and health promotion is the best way to do this.

Mr. Minihan

I welcome the Minister of State to the House for this important and ongoing debate. I too spoke in this debate in December 2002 but there are still a number of points I would like to make. We all agree that social drinking of alcohol is an integral part of Irish life. Alcohol can, and regularly does, lead to problems for individuals and the wider community when it is abused. In recent years, excessive alcohol consumption, especially among young people, has led to increased alcohol-related harm ranging from accidents and injuries to violence on the streets of our cities and towns. It is apparent that drunkenness has also increased to unacceptable levels.

There is general agreement that the changing drinking patterns in Irish society can be attributed to a number of factors. We have experienced economic growth and social change on an unprecedented scale. Our lifestyles have changed, largely for the better. Employment has increased and, as a consequence, disposable income levels have also increased, especially among younger people. These broadly positive developments have been accompanied by a lessening of parental control and personal responsibility among young people and a much stronger focus on consumerism in Irish society.

This is a point at which a discussion on rights and responsibilities becomes necessary and inevitable. The need for a partnership approach to tackling alcohol-related harm is evident. There was a tendency to point the finger of blame in one direction, whether at the Government, Ministers, the drinks industry, the media or at schools. However, to point the finger at one section is the wrong approach. Everyone has a responsibility.

Rather than engaging in arguments and counter arguments about who is to blame, we need to identify the different levels at which action is required. We can then identify the responsibilities and contributions of the various stakeholders. The problem of alcohol abuse must be addressed at separate levels. Legislation has a role to play. This Government has already taken action in that regard and we have debated it in this House. The drinks industry cannot be driven by profits alone. It bears an equal responsibility. However, the key to solving this problem is education of all sectors of society. Family values are hugely important, particularly given the increased level of binge drinking among young people.

It is no good pointing the finger at other agencies when we abdicate our individual responsibility as is the case in Irish society. I recall numerous incidents of drunkenness being accepted as a mitigating factor in behaviour. That day is gone. We can no longer accept drunkenness as a mitigating factor in a person's behaviour. There has been a huge increase in public order offences which are dealt in the District Courts by applying the probation Act. It is time to come down very strongly on what is acceptable and what is not. I am a non-drinker, but I often wonder how I would have been treated if I had had the misfortune to become involved in an altercation and did not have the excuse of having had a few drinks too many. The time has come to address that.

During my military career there was on occasion excessive drinking, particularly overseas. One chaplain, Fr. Paddy Bresnan, adopted the novel approach of issuing his own form of pioneer pledge which limited people to two, three or four pints. People boasted quite proudly regarding the pledge they had taken that they were a four-pint or a two-pint man. This meant people exercised personal control and personal responsibility. Young people must exercise control and understand their limitations as human beings and in terms of how much alcohol they can tolerate at any one time.

Simplistic solutions targeted at any one level of society will not work. Effective action at all levels is needed to redress abuses in society. That has already been proven when, in bringing forward legislation, all stakeholders came together in an effort to work together and draft that legislation. However, the State has a responsibility to protect its citizens from the consequences of alcohol abuse and it must lead the charge. This Government is endeavouring to do that.

We must also have regard to the commercial entitlement of the drinks industry to develop new products and to market them and meet the market requirements. However, they too must be responsible in their approach. Particular products on the market, shots and so on, are designed to encourage people to get drunk quickly. That is very worrying and I ask the industry to carefully examine that area. Alcoholic drinks with high alcohol content should be heavily priced to try to reduce that type of alcohol intake.

The Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003, which gave effect to certain of the recommendations put forward by the commission, was facilitated by the fact that the reforms had been advocated in such a broadly representative forum. We should continue with that approach. The exercise of responsibility in the use of alcohol is not a one-way street. Not only consumers but those who compete for a market share must play their part. There is a wide range of programmes in Ireland aimed at educating people about the dangers of excessive alcohol consumption. They promote a responsible attitude to alcohol. The responsible serving of alcohol programme which is directed at the industry and is run under the auspices of CERT is an initiative to which I hope all retailers involved in the drinks industry will subscribe. The framework for developing a college alcohol programme, initiated by the universities, where there is a high level of alcohol abuse among young people, is also a welcome development. Universities should implement this and work to ensure that a proper responsible drinking programme is available in all universities. There is also the alcohol aware practice study run by the GPs, the advertising alcohol in Ireland programme run by the Advertising Standards Authority, and the No Name clubs that have been mentioned previously. The video shown on "Prime Time" some months ago entitled "Crash", showed the consequences of accidents. I highlighted it in this House and wrote to the producers of the video, and I am very pleased that it has been made available to all second level schools throughout the country. That type of education programme is real. It is not an advertisement. The people are real and the victims are real. That is the approach we need to take.

I appeal to the various stakeholders to face up to their individual responsibilities and embrace initiatives aimed at addressing alcohol abuse. It is only through people and entities in partnership facing up to their responsibilities that we have any hope of redressing this terrible scourge on Irish society.

Mr. Kett

I thank Senator Minihan for sharing his time. That we are having this debate is a sad reflection on our society. It is high time we as a nation accepted we have a serious problem with alcohol. It is shameful that we have had the highest increase in alcohol consumption in Europe in the past decade. Many of us enjoy a drink and drink sensibly. However, an attitude has crept in that it is macho to go out and get blasted or binge drink on a Friday or Saturday and to boast the following day about how many drinks one had and how well one was able to handle one's drink.

During the 1990s average alcohol consumption in Ireland increased by 42% per person while in ten of our European partners there was a decrease in alcohol consumption. In 2001, Ireland was ranked second only to Luxembourg in terms of alcohol consumption — we were consuming 11.4 litres per person of pure alcohol when the average in Europe at that time was 9.1 litres.

The problem stems from the fact that people here start drinking at a very early age. Drinking patterns have been influenced by a number of factors. Children now have more money in their pockets and more disposable income. There is a stronger focus on consumerism, and the marketplace and the consumer are well and truly hand in hand. It would appear 18 to 25 year olds are most influenced because they are more likely to engage in binge drinking. We are told that binge drinking for a female is drinking five drinks in a row and for a male it is seven drinks. People who have been drinking all their lives can go out and enjoy a social drink a number of days during the week. In binge drinking, people lose total control of themselves. They empty the contents of their stomachs on the streets of the city or town wherever they are, and fall over. They engage in rows and suffer alcoholic poisoning. In the following days I suppose they boast about how much they drank and how well they held it. We saw a shocking example some months ago on "Prime Time" of a young girl falling around not knowing where she was. What could or might have happened to her is only for others toknow.

This type of drinking is bad enough but we also have a serious problem with 15 and 16 year olds drinking. Almost three quarters of them have drunk alcohol at least once a month, one third admit to binge drinking on three or more occasions a month and a quarter will have drunk on three or four occasions in any month. That is a shocking statistic. Adults, particularly, must now address this problem. There is widespread reluctance to do so because we fear being known as killjoys. Young people are afraid of being called wimps if say they will not drink at this rate because it is not good for them.

Hitherto, parents underestimated the damage that alcohol does. Many say they do not mind their children having a drink because they think that is better than taking drugs. It is high time we realised this is a drug and it is being taken in a more widespread and acceptable way than other drugs. The Government has made some progress but needs to do more, for example, by establishing the strategic task force to study the problem. The Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 and the Public Order Bill have been introduced to tackle the problem of drinking and its aftermath. We must take our heads out of the sand as parents and teachers, and accept that as a nation we have a serious drinking problem and do something about it.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Senator Tuffy has three minutes to speak.

Ms Tuffy

I will raise my point as quickly as I can. One measure the Minister introduced was to ban children from public houses and hotel pubs after 9 p.m. although that was not necessary to deal with the problem of young people drinking. I have no relationship of any kind with hoteliers, apart from going to hotels occasionally on holidays, as I did in Castlebar for St. Patrick's Day.

The Irish Hotels Federation has made a reasonable suggestion on the basis that much hotel business comes from young parents whose children are often with them in the pubs in hotels, not drinking alcohol but because the parents do not want to leave them in the bedroom. It is relaxed and generally does not offend people. If people do not like the policy of one hotel they can go elsewhere. It is a part of hotel business and should be encouraged because like everyone else, parents need holidays and this is one way to relax where the children are in a protected environment. They can be with their children and enjoy the hotel facilities. At the recent Irish Hotels Federation conference the outgoing president of the federation said he had received substantial feedback from his members that this was affecting tourism and business. He added that parents do not feel comfortable leaving children unsupervised in bedroom areas while they enjoy a meal or entertainment elsewhere in the hotel.

The relaxed pace of life with little bureaucracy attracts visitors to Ireland but these restrictions present a different face. The outgoing president of the Irish Hotels Federation proposed the introduction of a children certificate system similar to that in the United Kingdom which would allow gardaí to grant suitable hotels permission to have children with their parents in the bar areas after 9 p.m. where food was being served or where there was family entertainment. He called for that to be introduced before the tourism season begins. It is important for visitors and for Irish people who cannot go abroad on holidays because of their stage of life or finances. I hope the Minister of State will listen to this reasonable point.

The Minister should perhaps consider tackling the problem of young people drinking through an agency similar to the drugs task forces. He could implement projects in pilot areas where there is a high proportion of people in their early teens and provide them with alternatives activities for their spare time and measure the results. He also could provide them with the necessary finance and resources.

We always call for debates on this issue near St. Patrick's Day, Easter or Christmas because the problem is exacerbated at these festive times. The Garda and other bodies could make a more concentrated effort to deal with that. I was in Castlebar on St. Patrick's night and the place was covered in litter. I mean no disrespect to Castlebar, where I enjoyed my time. No doubt the problem was the same in Dublin. The litter wardens should be out on that day. Councils should put in extra resources and pay people overtime or whatever is necessary to cover those events. They should also fine those who drop litter. Likewise, the gardaí should be on the street on those occasions in particular. Even if the Garda Síochána has a shortage of resources it can at least make a concerted effort at these times.

There have been widespread reports about club events, for example at the Point, where 14 and 15 year olds take drugs. That is far more serious. I query event organisers who admit young people, claiming they can be supervised. It is hard to believe that they do not somehow permit alcohol to be given to these people and turn a blind eye to drug-taking or fail to take enough action. A great deal needs to be done in that area. At least we know something of the effects of alcohol whereas the use of drugs is a great unknown against which we need to protect our young people.

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan)

I thank the Senators for a constructive contribution to a very interesting debate. When someone seeks counselling for a drink problem the first advice is that he or she must face up to the problem. I am glad that the Seanad has recognised this morning in the light of contemporary statistics that as a nation we have a drinking problem that we must acknowledge. All counsellors advise that the first step is to recognise that the problem exists. I am not satisfied, however, despite all the contributions this morning that we have fully faced up to the problem because when one looks at the statistics it is very serious.

I appreciate Senator Tuffy's concerns about drug-taking but alcohol is by far the most commonly consumed drug in Ireland and the abuse of other drugs often follows a period of abuse of alcohol. How many serious drug abusers did not start by abusing the primary available licensed drug? I am not saying it should not be licensed.

It is 1 April and there was a news report this morning to the effect that the Government would limit the number of pints a person could drink. Such a story can be published on 1 April because during the day one realises it is untrue. Although we must, we are not being careful in our use of this drug. All Senators recognise that. Senator Kett was vehement on that point. Senators also gave graphic descriptions of the effects of alcohol.

It is more useful to start by looking at the causes of alcohol abuse. Senator Norris made the point, echoed by a number of other Senators, that the huge increase in the disposable income of teenagers has a crucial effect. This change has come about because of increased employment opportunities. In our work as public representatives we see an increasing number of young persons working in licensed premises, retail stores and many other areas. To describe, as legislation does, a person under the age of 18 years as a child is to miss the point. These children who pay taxes and pay-related social insurance are entitled to the protection of labour legislation and follow an adult lifestyle. We must face up to the fact that this is the Ireland in which we live and whatever policies we devise to address the problem must respect this.

I agree with Senator Cummins that it is impossible to separate the worlds of children and adults in the context of this problem. Children now live an adult life and adult form of existence and have disposable income much of which is, regrettably, spent on alcohol. This is where habits begin to form and characters begin to change. No amount of perception through the schools, or worthy literature circulated by the Department of Health and Children will affect that.

This change has occurred in the context of great social and cultural change. The traditional control mechanisms and moral codes have weakened; several Senators referred to the dominance of consumerist thinking. It will become the State's obligation to devise measures to ensure that sanctions exist and that we have real deterrents. We cannot escape the issue.

There is no public debate on this matter. I am concerned by some of the types of sanctions being used in other jurisdictions when the problem becomes serious. Senator Terry spoke about the serious consequences of the abuse of alcohol on the accident and emergency wards of our major hospitals. Why are non-medical card holders not billed with the full cost of their stay in a hospital unit when it is a result of self-induced intoxication? Health boards must address this.

In other jurisdictions child benefit has been examined. We pay child benefit in respect of people who come before the courts. These people whose parents are in receipt of child benefit have used their money to become drunk. We need to examine this issue and have a rational all-party debate on it. Unless deterrents are built into the system, we will not make progress on the issue.

Some county councils have adopted excellent by-laws which prohibit the consumption of alcohol in public places and empower gardaí to seize the liquor if found. Such by-laws are desirable and I am sure we will see more of them adopted. In order to make them a real deterrent, county councils will have to set up staff to collect fines and impose the regulations. Otherwise they will remain a worthy aspiration.

The expression "nanny state" was used by some Senators. This phrase has gained a certain currency lately but I do not accept the argument made. We have had a big nanny for decades, namely the church, whose influence has weakened substantially. If the State is not prepared to give a moral lead, nobody will. We must face up to that. If it is nanny behaviour to suggest to people that they should not get blind drunk and to introduce sanctions with regard to the consequences of becoming blind drunk, I am happy to admit that I support the nanny state. We must foster——

Ms Terry

The current laws must be enforced, rather than bringing in a load of new ones.

Mr. B. Lenihan

The current laws do not provide sufficient sanctions to deter this type of conduct. Reference was made to the Judiciary. I wish to salute a member of the Judiciary in County Clare who insists when a person is convicted of a public order offence related to alcohol that the person produces at his or her own cost an alcohol-free urine sample to gardaí two or three times a week. This measure has had a substantial impact on improving the position in Ennis. We must examine more initiatives of this type. If individuals are not prepared to take responsibility for their behaviour, the State must intervene. The argument that this is thenanny state is too glib and I do not accept it. There are, of course, some measures I would not support.

We must be careful on the issue of the licensed trade. Many suggestions made revolve around imposing further restrictions on publicans and licence holders whose job of running their premises and maintaining order is already difficult. It is clear from the statistics that much of the increased consumption of alcohol stems from home drinking and from off-licence purchases. Much excessive consumption, as we well know, also takes place in night-clubs. Therefore, to exclusively target licensed premises will not lead to great progress in this area. The State must remind individuals of their responsibilities, irrespective of their age.