The Government amendment makes reference to a committee of the Houses of the Oireachtas which may or not have to view material. Does that protection also apply to this House and the other House? While I understand members of the committee would have to view the material and not put forward a view on the matter, but simply present the information to the Houses, I presume such material would not present a difficulty for other Members of the Oireachtas who have not seen it.
Child Trafficking and Pornography (Amendment) Bill 2004: Committee and Remaining Stages.
SECTION 1.
Question proposed: "That section 1 stand part of the Bill."
My point is similar to that made by Senator Hayes. Section 1(b) states:
the possession, distribution, printing, publication or showing by either House of the Oireachtas, a committee (within the meaning of that Act) or any person of child pornography for the purposes of, or in connection with, the performance of any function conferred by the Constitution or by law on those Houses or conferred by a resolution of either of those Houses or resolutions of both of them on such a committee.
I presume that power is ringfenced to activities which would be devolved to a committee by the Houses of the Oireachtas and consequently to the individuals and does not extend beyond that point. It is important we are not opening up an area which could give impunity to Members of the Oireachtas. Such powers must apply to matters decided by both Houses in advance so no person could subsequently claim it as a defence. I presume that is the case. However, perhaps the Minister of State will clarify the matter.
I will address both points. The section applies to the Houses of the Oireachtas as distinct from committees of the House. The section clearly states: "the possession, distribution, printing, publication or showing by either House of the Oireachtas, a committee (within the meaning of that Act) or any person..."
There is a comma after House of the Oireachtas.
Yes. Clearly, the section applies to the Dáil, Seanad and a committee within the meaning of the Committees of the Houses of the Oireachtas (Compellability, Privileges and Immunities of Witnesses) (Amendment) legislation.
On Senator Walsh's point, subsection (b) states “for the purposes of, or in connection with, the performance of any function conferred by the Constitution or by law on those Houses or conferred by a resolution of either of those Houses or resolutions of both of them on such a committee.” The exemption is connected to the functions conferred by the Constitution or by law on the Houses. Senators should remember that in the case of a Circuit Court judge, as I stated in my reply on Second Stage, this is a function conferred on us by law and not by the Constitution. The law is in the same terms as the Constitution but this is a provision of the courts of justice legislation.
On the operations of a committee — Senator Brian Hayes anticipated this point — we do not know what the committee will do. It will have to decide how it proceeds.
I suspect the Minister of State is more expert on this issue than I. Are there any grounds for any individual to object to the passing of legislation on the grounds of natural justice and constitutional probity whereby a specific Act of the Oireachtas is passed to deal specifically with one individual?
It is important that legislation is not directed specifically. There would be situations where a committee of the House might find it necessary, if specific legislation was being introduced, to access some of these images in order to inform itself for the purpose of tabling amendments that might require to be introduced to legislation generally. This will have a general application, in my view, but I can see where it might be used in specific cases. We should perhaps concentrate on the general application.
The legislation is not to deal with any one individual. Clearly the position of one individual has occasioned a very considerable amount of research into how one proceeds in a matter of this type. The legislation is abstract and general in character and applies from its commencement. There is no commencement date for the legislation which will come into force in the ordinary way on signature by the President. There is no suggestion that this legislation relates to any one individual. It is permanent legislation which will provide that the Oireachtas in the proper performance of its functions will not commit this particular criminal offence. It is an exemption.
Question put and agreed to.
Section 2 agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.
Sitting suspended at 11.50 a.m. and resumed at 1 p.m.