On behalf of everyone in the House, I welcome the new Minister for Agriculture and Food. I know her personality and intelligence will be brought to bear on the changing face of agriculture.
Land Bill 2004: Second Stage.
Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
We all endorse that sentiment.
Ar dtús, tá lúcháir orm bheith ar ais sa Seanad. Seo mo chéad ocáid oifigiúil mar Aire Talmhaíochta agus Bia. Ag éisteacht leis na Seanadóirí, tús maith leath na hoibre ach fan go bhfeicfimid nuair a bheimid críochnaithe i gceann cúpla bliain. Is pribhléid dom é bheith anseo le mo chéad Bhille faoi chúram na Roinne Talmhaíochta agus Bia a chur os ár gcomhair. On this my first appearance in Seanad Éireann in my new role as Minister for Agriculture and Food, I want to pay tribute to my colleague and former Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Joe Walsh, for his long and dedicated service to our most important indigenous industry.
The Land Bill I am proposing will be a very great benefit to landowners in general and farmers in particular. The Bill will provide a direct financial benefit to thousands of farmers who are currently paying land purchase annuities, ease the transfer of trust land and reduce bureaucracy and the expense involved in conveyancing.
The Irish Land Commission was established in 1881. It was originally a rent fixing body but its main business became that of facilitating the transfer of the freehold ownership of land from landlords to their tenants. It examined the landlord's title, paid him the purchase money and vested the freehold in the occupying tenants. As many tenants did not have access to sources of capital to pay the purchase price the concept of the land purchase annuity was introduced, whereby capital was provided to tenants and repaid by the tenant owner by way of an annuity spread over a term of years. These annuities were effectively advances or loans and played a very important part in bringing about tenant ownership.
Much work was done by the Land Commission between the years 1881 and 1921, by which time over 316,000 holdings, covering an area of 11 million acres, over 50% of the total land area of the country, had been bought out and vested by the Land Commission and some 750,000 acres of untenanted land had been distributed among some 35,000 allottees either by way of enlargement or by the creation of new holdings.
With the foundation of the State, the Land Commission embarked on a countrywide programme of structural reform which aimed, through the acquisition and distribution of land, to enlarge and re-arrange smallholdings and, generally, to relieve congestion. For the common good and where necessary, land was acquired compulsorily for the enlargement of uneconomic smallholdings. This work led to approximately 2.5 million acres of land, a further 15% of land in the State, being eventually distributed among some 150,000 beneficiaries. Overall, two thirds of land in the State changed ownership with the assistance of the Land Commission in the past 125 years, causing a radical alteration in Irish society.
By the early 1980s it was generally accepted that the Land Commission had achieved its primary objectives. Accordingly, it was decided to terminate acquisition and dispose of the remaining lands on hand. The Land Commission was eventually dissolved by the Irish Land Commission (Dissolution) Act 1992, which came into effect on 31 March 1999. Since the transfer of the Land Commission's land and other functions to the Department of Agriculture and Food, my officials have continued to wind up the affairs of the former Land Commission. The measures in this Bill primarily deal with better administration of annuities; the easing of the transfer of trust lands; a reduction in bureaucracy; and a reduction in the cost of conveyancing transactions for all agricultural land, for example, land not wholly situated in a county borough, a borough, an urban district or a town.
This Bill is one of the commitments to the farming sector and the partnership process under the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness and the Sustaining Progress agreements. In bringing forward this Bill, I am fulfilling the commitment to introduce a Land Bill on the operation of land purchase annuities and the management of the former Land Commission lands.
I will now outline in greater detail the principal aspects of the Bill. There is good news for farmers with annuities in that it is proposed to make legal provision for the write-off of all annuities of €200 per annum or less and approximately 4,500 farmers will benefit. As a result of this provision, two thirds of all annuities will be written off. Not only will this mean that these farmers will not be liable for half-yearly payments to the Department, but their land will no longer have the burden of an annuity attached to it. In time, this will reduce the amount of paperwork involved in any conveyance of such land, resulting in reduced conveyancing costs in the longer term. The benefits of this measure will be felt throughout the country. They are not confined to farmers alone but will include anyone involved in conveyancing agricultural land and the purchasers of such land. This measure will benefit approximately 4,500 annuitants to a total sum close to €4 million.
In section 3 of the Bill provision is made to encourage farmers who still have outstanding land purchase annuities to take the final step towards fully owning their land. When enacted, I will introduce a scheme to allow farmers with land purchase annuities of more than €200 per annum to buy them out. Some 2,300 farmers will be able to avail of this concession to buy out their annuities at a substantial discount of 25%, subject to all outstanding arrears being paid in full. This measure has the capacity to alleviate an existing debt problem for certain farmers and improve the financial situation of most annuitants. While no remaining annuity has an interest rate in excess of 11% since 1993, I am aware that it is possible in certain circumstances to obtain commercial loans with a much lower interest rate.
The 25% reduction in the redemption price of the annuity coupled with the substantial increase in the value of agricultural land in recent years makes it attractive for most, if not all farmers, to re-structure their debts and improve their overall financial position. I advise farmers to consider this offer very carefully and discuss with their financial advisers the opportunities it presents. I stress it is very important that farmers establish clear title to the land because it is intended that the buy-out scheme will be limited to six months duration. If any dispute as to ownership, title, etc, arises, it may not be possible for them to avail of the scheme. I recommend that anyone with land purchase annuities attached to his or her land should now inquire from his or her legal adviser that his or her title is clear. The administration of the estates of parents or grandparents should be attended to as a matter of urgency.
The House should also be aware that the provision will increase the outright ownership by farmers of land free from any encumbrances, thus giving the same benefits to these farmers as the farmers who are the subject of the write-off contained in section 2 of the Bill. The yield to the Exchequer as a result of this measure could be up to €18 million, depending on the numbers who enter the buy-out scheme.
In addition to reducing the number of annuities, I am also providing greater control measures for annuities in the interests of the taxpayer and equity. As part of this initiative on annuity compliance, section 4 of the Bill makes legal provision for the setting off of any grant or single payment entitlements due to farmers by the Department against annuity payments that are owed and not discharged. Furthermore, I am introducing a control measure in section 5 whereby individuals with land purchase annuities will be required to present a certificate of compliance to the Land Registry in cases where they propose to dispose of all or part of the land subject to an annuity. My Department will only furnish such certificates where arrears outstanding have been cleared or, preferably, the entire annuity redeemed.
In section 6 of the Bill I propose to amend section 28 of the Land Act 1933 by inserting a new provision which will enable my Department to recover payment of arrears of annuities from defaulters by way of judgment in the courts in cases where such moneys are not recoupable except through payment owed to them by third parties. The proposal will provide that a warrant issued under section 28 of the Land Act 1933 may take the form of an attachment of debts by garnishee order or the appointment of a receiver by equitable execution following an application to the court. These measures will not be entered into without having previously attempted to come to some voluntary arrangement regarding any arrears that arise after closure of the buy-out scheme.
I will now outline the next element of the Bill which deals with the easing of transfer of trust land. Section 7 of the Bill deals with transfer of land which is the subject of a trust set up under the Land Acts. It is proposed to simplify conveyancing procedures of trust properties to ease transfer of ownership by removing the legal and financial burdens from trustees. Approximately 500 of these local trusts are in existence, almost half of which are used by local GAA and other sports clubs. The balance are mainly turbary and cow-park trusts established to provide some communal land for the keeping of animals by those in rural communities who did not own agricultural holdings. In the case of sporting trusts, because the sporting organisations do not own the property, they are reluctant to commit to significant development of, or investment in, the trust property. As a result, many properties are not maximising their potential benefit to the community in which they are situated.
The measure I am proposing should greatly facilitate the legal transfer of these lands from trust to actual user ownership, thus allowing greater development of these sporting and other local amenity facilities to the benefit of the whole community. I believe there may be as many as 200 trusts interested in availing of this measure. I recommend that other trusts should also consider the benefits offered by this measure.
Vesting orders are the means used by my Department to transfer land ownership of the person or persons named in the order. Section 28 of the Land Act 1931 currently provides for publication in the prescribed manner. This is onerous and cumbersome and ultimately results in delays. I propose a technical change to the legislation governing the publication of vesting orders by repealing and replacing section 28 with a requirement to publish only a notice of the making of such orders. This will lead to administrative improvements.
At present, statutory instruments known as rules under the Land Acts, other than certain financial matters, may only be made following the convening of the rules committee. When this provision was introduced, the Land Commission was separate to the Department, the workload was heavy and it was sensible for all parties to meet and consider proposals. However, since the dissolution of the Land Commission, there is little point in having a law that specifies that two of the Department's officials must meet with the President of the High Court before a statutory instrument is made. I propose to amend section 3(1) of the Land Act 1933 to remove the necessity of convening meetings of the rules committee in favour of my Department consulting the President of the High Court, or his nominee, as Judicial Commissioner and the President of the Law Society of Ireland before making rules under the Land Acts.
On the advice of the Office of the Attorney General, I propose to make amendments of a technical nature to sections 10 and 11. In section 10, I propose to provide a statutory basis for Government decisions made in 1989 and 1992, whereby small amounts, namely £20, or €25.40, and less per annum in respect of land purchase annuities and land reclamation annuities were written off. At the time, the write off was done on an administrative basis but as annuities have a legal basis, it is prudent to have a legal basis for the write off. There are no implications for the beneficiaries of this write off and the measure is merely to provide legal certainty.
In relation to section 11, I propose to provide a statutory basis for the Government decision in 1992 which approved concessions to land purchase and land reclamation annuity payers, whereby they were offered the opportunity to buy out their annuities at a discount. However there was no provision in existing legislation authorising the Minister to accept less than the full amount to buy out such annuities. In order to provide this, it is necessary to introduce this measure in the Bill. As with section 10, there are no implications for the beneficiaries of the measure, except that it confirms their position in law.
With regard to subdivision control of agricultural land, it is proposed to repeal section 12 of the Land Act 1965. The control on the division, regarding the letting or leasing of agricultural land, was first introduced when the former Land Commission was primarily engaged in the elimination of congestion and fragmentation. The commission achieved the enlargement, consolidation and re-arrangement of holdings to a viable size through the compulsory acquisition of land and its subsequent re-allotment. Subdivision control was a logical concomitant to the process of enlarging and maintaining such holdings thereafter to prevent landowners from disposing of their property in a manner incompatible with the State's agricultural policy. Also, as long as the former Land Commission was active in redistributing land, there was logic in controlling any increase of more smallholdings, whose owners could then join the long queue of applicants for Land Commission land.
The State policy of enlarging holdings was aimed at creating viable farming units. It was a policy that was appropriate for its time and it was logical for the State to protect its investment by controlling the indiscriminate division of holdings. The State is no longer engaged in acquiring and redistributing land and there is no need for continuing subdivision control. Time has shown that economic factors tend to lead to the consolidation of holdings rather than their continued subdivision, as evidenced by the increasing size of farms in the State. For example, in 1973 the average farm size was 23 hectares. By 2002 it had increased to 32 hectares, an increase of almost 40%. As a result, the granting of consent has now become a formality and in no case in recent years has consent been withheld.
However, as section 12 of the Land Act 1965 has not been repealed, solicitors for landowners who wish to subdivide or lease their land must still apply to the Department for consent, giving rise to over 15,000 applications per year and additional costs for the landowners. The abolition of subdivision control will save landowners legal and other costs involved in making subdivision applications. In addition, there will be a visible benefit in the reduction of administrative time incurred by my staff in issuing the relevant section 12 consents.
It is proposed to repeal section 45 of the Land Act 1965. For historical and cultural reasons foreign investment in land, in particular non-resident foreign investment, was a rather sensitive issue. Prior to the Second World War there was no restriction on the purchase of land in the State by non-nationals. However, after the war, primarily as a result of changes in the tax laws in the United Kingdom, there were increasing purchases of land by non-nationals. This trend met with strong resistance from owners of small uneconomic farms who had hoped to acquire, with the assistance of the former Land Commission, the lands being bought by non-nationals.
Section 45 consent was introduced as a result of this pressure and the rationale was to ensure a fair and equitable distribution of land to Irish nationals and long-term residents and to prevent the creation of a class of non-resident landowners. In practice, a section 45 consent was required in all agricultural land purchases, which was all land except that wholly situated in a county borough, a borough, an urban district or a town. A consent was not required where agricultural land was being purchased by a class of persons known as "qualified persons" as specified in section 45 of the Act. For example, an Irish citizen, or someone who had been resident in the State for seven years, was deemed a "qualified person".
On Ireland's entry into the European Economic Community it became obvious that the restrictions on purchases of land by non-nationals, or more specifically by nationals of other members states, imposed by section 45 were contrary to our freedom of movement and establishment obligations under the Treaty of Rome. Various statutory instruments have over the years extended the categories of qualifying individuals for whom consent was not necessary.
These changes and the cessation of land acquisition by the former Land Commission in the early 1980s further reduced any justification for withholding section 45 consent. The issue of consent has become a formality. No application has been refused for several years, but because the section has never been repealed approximately 300 applications are received and processed each year. More importantly, in conveyancing transactions, solicitors must establish the nationality of their client, insert the appropriate nationality certificate in the deed of purchase, or in limited cases apply for a formal consent for their clients and perhaps charge their clients accordingly. I want this Bill to end unnecessary red tape and bureaucratic expense in checking nationality for the small number of "non-qualified" persons or companies seeking a consent. Nationality certificates will no longer be required in deeds of purchase for any land purchased in the State.
Section 13 contains the Short Title, construction, collective citation and commencement date.
The proposals in the Bill provide for a potential contribution to the Exchequer by way of a capital lump sum being paid to it. They will greatly reduce the burden of land purchase annuities for a significant number of farmers and reduce the administrative burdens on my Department permitting staff to be redeployed to more urgent and productive areas. With regard to regulatory reform, the proposals in the Bill provide for the removal of the burden of annuities for many farmers; better means of controlling arrears an land annuities; simpler vesting of trust land and rule making; the reduction of bureaucracy and costs involved in completing land transfers; and a potential contribution to the Exchequer of up to €18 million.
Mar sin, ba mhaith liom an Bille seo a chur os comhair na Seanadóirí. Tá mé ag tnúth leis an díospóireacht, agus tá súil agam go mbeidh tacaíocht ar fáil don Bhille úr seo.
Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire agus tá súil agam go mbeidh caint mhaith againn faoin mBille seo.
I extend a ceád míle fáilte to the Minister and her officials. I take this opportunity to congratulate her on her first Bill and first visit to the House. I also congratulate her on her appointment as Minister for Agriculture and Food. It is nice to witness history in the making; she is the first lady appointed to the position. I can imagine the compliments from the other side of the House. When her predecessor attended here, Senator Callanan waxed lyrical about the Minister's wonderful achievements and what a magnificent individual he was.
The Minister was looking for a Seanad vote.
The seat of power has shifted from west Cork to the hills of Donegal and I am looking forward with interest to Senator Callanan's contribution and his compliments to the new Minister.
The Minister is doing well herself.
I wish her well in her job, as I do Deputy Brendan Smith and Deputy Browne who have been appointed Ministers of State. I acknowledge the contribution made by the former Minister, Deputy Walsh. I paid tribute to him at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Agriculture and Food.
I welcome the publication of this Bill. It has taken some time to come before the House; it was originally published last summer. It was promised under commitments in the Sustaining Progress partnership agreement. While the Fine Gael Party largely supports the Bill, we have some reservations about a number of its negative aspects which I hope the Minister will address. I intend to introduce amendments on Committee Stage to afford her an opportunity to improve and enhance it.
The provision for farmers to buy out land annuities, if fully taken up, would extinguish the further collection of annuities, result in less paperwork and bureaucracy for the Department and bring to an end an outdated system for collecting land annuities which originated in the 19th century. I have concerns about aspects of the Bill, however, including the total write-off of annuities and arrears for farmers who pay less than €200 per annum. The farm organisations also have difficulty with the threshold in the provision, which the Fine Gael Party will propose to increase to €500 per annum in an amendment. Departmental officials have stated that the cost of collecting sums of this size, even if paid in full, would exceed the total amount they generate. The ICMSA and the IFA have called for annuities of less than €500 to be written off and we will support them by tabling an amendment to that effect.
The 25% discount provided for in the Bill is too low to make the package attractive. The farm organisations, the ICMSA and the IFA, insist that this threshold must be increased to 50% and I will propose an amendment to this effect. They also point out that Sustaining Progress includes a specific commitment to easing the burden experienced by farmers who pay land annuities. It is important to note that the reduced rate only applies to those who pay their arrears in full, which will also present problems. Why can this scheme not provide for a 50% discount for a buy-out, given that the previous buy-out scheme, in 1992, provided for such a discount?
The Bill offers no assistance to those with significant arrears. Farmers cannot participate in the reduced buy-out option until arrears are paid in full. The ICMSA has criticised the Department for not offering to assist farmers with arrears. Where a farmer has arrears, an agreement should be reached on a payment plan over several years with no interest charge. Department officials and the Minister have confirmed that interest rates on annuities are often significantly higher than today's interest rates. The Minister cited a figure of 11% but I am aware of rates of as high as 18% dating back to when purchases were contracted in the 1970s and 1980s. Given that farmers have paid much too much interest over the years, there is scope to review the provision on arrears and I will table an amendment on the matter on Committee Stage.
I am also concerned that the legislation continues the tradition of securing annuity payments from the Department's agricultural payments, such as headage. It provides that the Department may claw back headage premium payments from farmers against land annuities. This could present significant difficulties for farmers struggling to meet other commitments and reinforces the argument that the Department must do more to assist farmers by developing a structured payment scheme to allow them to pay annuities arrears.
I understand the practice of offsetting annuity payments against departmental payments ceased in 1993 because it was deemed illegal by the European Court of Justice. Following the court's decision, the European Union advised member states to stop the practice but in 1998 the Danish Government challenged the ruling, taking what was to become known as the Jensen case before the Court of Justice. It won the case, which has allowed the Minister to introduce the current proposal. The Department argues that it will only seek to take arrears from domestic payments, such as headage, rather than EU payments. This could create hardship, particularly for farmers in financial difficulties who may not be in a position to pay their land annuity. Safeguards, as proposed by the IFA, should be created to ensure that farmers who cannot avail of the new buy-out deal are given an opportunity to restructure their payments to ensure they are able to make their annuity payments in full in the future.
The timescale for the buy-out scheme raises further concerns. The proposal to impose a six month limit is not acceptable because farmers may not be able to take up the offer immediately due to increased pressure, although they may be able to do so at a later date. The scheme should not be introduced until the single farm payment is made next year. From where does the Minister propose that farmers will get the money to buy out annuities?
The proposals regarding sports and community trustee lands are welcome as they will enable clubs and community groups to develop such lands to allow for better facilities and grounds.
As the Minister stated, the Land Commission was established in 1881 as a rent fixing body. The commission developed by law into a tenant purchase agency and assisted with the purchase by tenants of 13.5 million acres of land. It embarked on a countrywide programme of land structural reform and became a major purchaser and distributor of land until 1983 when it ceased acquiring land. Clearly, it played a vital role in the development of agriculture. That the Irish Land Commission (Dissolution) Act of 1992 was not signed into law until March 1999 is indicative of how things are done here.
There are lessons to be learned in the context of today's developments, particularly as regards transport infrastructural development. While there is no doubting the necessity to build motorways throughout the State, the roads building programme is ravaging farm holdings. There is scope for the Minister to listen to and help farmers affected by the programme, many of whom will not be able to purchase land. Available land could be transferred from one farmer to another but many farmers are unable to compete to buy land because in many areas there is no land for sale. However, land could be offset between holdings. In addition, the Minister could establish a group under the legislation to assist farmers in purchasing and transferring land and relocating in certain areas.
Many farmers with small holdings, whose land is purchased compulsorily for many reasons, cannot compete for land on the open market against the larger farmers, industrialists, non-nationals, to whom the Minister referred, and companies who are buying up the land. The Minister should take this problem on board and help out the farmers concerned. The farming community is calling for assistance and I ask the Minister to listen and help farmers. I propose that she establish an interdepartmental group to help farmers reconsolidate their holdings following the construction of the necessary road infrastructure in the coming years.
From today the Minister should take on board certain other issues although they may not relate directly to the Land Bill. One concerns the need to remove capital gains tax on the sale of land to farmers where the proceeds are reinvested into the development of farm land. Another is the need to eliminate stamp duty on the purchase of land from farmers by full-time farmers.
Farming organisations are looking forward to dealing with the Minister and seem to believe she is a breath of fresh air. The other significant issue she will need to address, as she knows well, is that it is not acceptable to impose capital gains tax on compensation paid for land purchased through compulsory purchase orders. I ask her to tackle this today.
It would be remiss of me not to avail of the opportunity to ask the Minister to take immediate action on the annual problem of farmers being ripped off by the meat factory cartel. Year in, year out farmers have to protest in the rain and snow up to and after Christmas to get a fair price for their livestock. The Minister needs to tackle this immediately and there is no point letting it drift from one year to the next. It can be solved but will require resolve on her part and on the part of factories and farmers.
Addressing the question of the live export markets would help in this regard. This represents a challenge for the Minister. Her predecessor made various announcements in recent years on the opening up of markets in the Middle East and Africa but this has not happened. We will be depending on the Minister to address this issue. Given that she is close to the islands off the Donegal coast, perhaps she knows what it is like to transport animals and, therefore, will help farmers to gain access to Middle East and African markets.
Before the Minister entered the Chamber, I would have endorsed the Bill wholeheartedly. However, having listed to her I am a little concerned about it. We will have to study it further. It is a bit like the curate's egg in that it is good in spots and not so good in others. We hope to support the Bill. I have pointed out some possible amendments that I am asking the Minister to take on board. I hope she will look favourably on them on Committee Stage.
I wish the Minister well in her job. Given her former position as Minister for Social and Family Affairs, I ask her to think of farmers' spouses, usually wives. In agricultural terms, they do not exist when it comes to applying for social welfare. The Minister will now have to tackle this problem from the other side. I know she is all about caring so I ask her to care in particular for the wives of farmers.
I do not have to welcome the Minister to the House as Senator Coonan has done such an excellent job on behalf of us all. Perhaps I should say nothing more because he has been so excellent in his presentation. He left little for anybody to say to the Minister, in glowing terms or otherwise, but perhaps I should add my tuppence worth
Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. I congratulate her on her appointment. As the media throughout the country have stated, Deputy Coughlan is the first female Minister for Agriculture and Food. She deserves this well and she will serve agriculture well. We come from opposite ends of the country, Cork and Donegal. Somebody once wrote a song about it.
The Senator should sing it.
Not yet. We will put the words together. The Minister and I served on the committee together and I am fully aware of her knowledge of, interest in and commitment to agriculture. I welcome this, as I am sure does the farming community. For example, we noted the warm and genuine welcome extended to her at the National Ploughing Championships by both the farming organisations and farmers in general. That is to be expected given her personality. We look forward to working with her. I do not see how she will meet, between now and Christmas, all the demands Senator Coonan made of her.
That was a personal welcome, not a political one.
Yes. We understand that and from where it came. Senator Coonan made an excellent presentation and we will take an interest in some of his proposed amendments.
In an IFA statement made when the Bill was announced, Padraic Devilly welcomed the writing off of the Land Commission annuities of €200 or less for the 4,200 farmers in question. He was very pleased with this. He also stated there should be an offer of a capital buy-out of up to 50%, rather than the 25% on offer, to ensure maximum uptake. There are not many organisations that would do that. I am sure the taxpayer also has an interest in this issue.
I welcome this Bill as a generous means of winding up the affairs of the former Land Commission. It would have been easy for the Minister to present a factual technical Bill focused on the internal workings of the former Land Commission. Instead she has brought forward a Bill full of creative ideas that will benefit many and not just the members of the farming community, who have traditionally been seen as the beneficiaries of the Land Commission.
The Minister has described many benefits of the Bill but I would like to focus on three which I regard as the most significant, namely, annuities, the transfer of land to rural GAA clubs, sports clubs and community groups, and the reduction of red tape. We should all welcome these benefits. There are many others but the Minister has dealt with them at length.
Farmers with annuities are being given generous write-offs or significant discounts on their annual payments. Approximately 4,500 farmers with annuities of €200 per annum and under are to have their annuities, including arrears, written off. We must realise this is a substantial measure. Annuities are the half-yearly bills farmers receive, normally in May or June and again in November or December. Many farm families will appreciate one less bill coming through the letterbox, particularly just before Christmas. Any reduction in outgoings is always welcome and I think the Minister has done well to secure the financial sanction to bring forward such a measure.
I also welcome the discount on the redemption price of the annuities above €200 per annum. In this time of relatively low interest rates, I am surprised to learn that annuities can attract interest rates of over 10%. I recommend that every farmer with annuities above €200 per annum should actively consider this remarkable offer. It is not every day that one can get 25% off the redemption price of one's loan, but the additional option of reducing the interest rate means this scheme should be a real bargain for the remaining 2,300 or so farmers holding large annuities.
I cannot help wondering if the farming bodies have considered negotiating a deal with the banks or other finance houses to enable farmers to have easier access to such finance. These organisations may see this opportunity and offer farmers a low interest rate to enable them to avail of this offer. Every encouragement should be given and I expect the farming organisations to press this issue towards the end of the social partnership agreement. The measures are welcome in general, as I read in the newspaper.
I commend the Minister on her presentation. I note the Minister's warning to farmers that they should ensure that their titles are in order. My understanding is that the buy-out scheme will operate for a period of six months. Many families have failed to carry out the necessary administration pertaining to deceased parents' or, in some cases, grandparents' estates for a variety of reasons. However, I think that six months is a little short because people may have some difficulty in obtaining titles going back to the time of their grandparents. In addition, bits and pieces of land were mixed up, although the Land Commission sorted many matters out. I commend the good work of the Land Commission which operated for over 100 years. The Minister should consider extending that six month period. As the number of farmers is small, when the Bill is enacted, would it be possible for the Department to send the information directly to the farmers concerned? In many instances individual farmers may not be aware of the relevant details. Many farmers do not read newspapers and the Irish Farmers Journal may not carry the information. There is good news in this measure which will be of benefit to farmers, so perhaps a direct communication about it could be issued by the Department to farmers.
I now come to a difficult issue about which I share some of the concerns raised by Senator Coonan. Despite these great measures, I have one concern about the Bill, namely, section 4. This section provides that the Department may set off arrears of annuity due against other payments made by the Department. As the Minister is well aware from her long experience of dealing with farmers and agricultural matters, and particularly given the county she represents, many farmers rely on their EU payments to make ends meet. Having knowledge of both potential sides of this issue, I am sure the Minister has a firm idea as to how this provision will be implemented. I would appreciate it if she would give some indication to the House of how she envisages her Department applying this provision. It is a harsh measure and, as we all know, there will be a small coterie of people, from whatever sector of society, who do not want to pay anything. Some people have had and will continue to have difficulties in meeting repayments over the years. As the Minister said in her first interview with the Farming Independent, negotiation and listening are important. They will play a big role in this matter, to which I urge the Minister to pay particular attention.
I now wish to deal with the measure concerning trust lands, which particularly pleases me as a member of a local GAA club. Many organisations are pleased with the measure also, including my own local club. I realise the importance of local GAA clubs to the community and their influence in developing young boys and girls to be a part of the community by engaging in sporting activities. We often talk about what young people should or should not be doing but the GAA has done great work in this respect.
As regards trust lands, it is vital that such clubs should be free to develop and grow with their communities. Many clubs are fearful of investing in long-term development because of uncertainty over the ownership of their grounds. This measure will assist the transfer of such properties into the hands of those who actually use the grounds. Using this measure will allow GAA clubs, other sports clubs and community groups to take ownership of their grounds and remove any fears regarding long-term ownership of the land. The removal of any doubt about the future use of the land will encourage club development committees to pursue longer-term aims and developments and will underpin the position of clubs within the communities they serve. Anything that allows parish clubs to grow, develop and enhance the community will have my full support.
It is important to reduce red tape. Like every other farmer, I know that the paper mountain is of one the great challenges of modern farming. I welcome the single payment which will reduce the level of paperwork involved. I am delighted to see the Minister continuing the great work of her predecessor in continuing to reduce the paperwork that farmers must complete. I particularly welcome the removal of section 12, which required the Land Commission's and, latterly, the Department's approval before a subdivision of holdings could take place.
For many farm families, giving a site to a family member who is not going to inherit the farm itself is considered a fair means of settlement. Currently, any such division of more than one hectare requires the approval of the Department. While the original intention of this provision may have been to prevent the fragmentation of farms, economics have now driven farming in that direction and invariably the division of a site for a new house does not compromise the holding itself. Indeed, many young people in rural communities would find it difficult to establish their family home without the aid of a site from their parents. Rural communities would be deprived of many young talented people if these family arrangements were not established practice and, conversely, many elderly farmers would not have family support to help and assist them in their old age. Having to apply to the Department for such subdivisions only increases the paperwork and if solicitors are involved, as they usually are, it increases their fees. Therefore, I am pleased to see that the provision is being repealed.
I also welcome the simplification of the vesting process. Anything that eases the transfer of land to the farmer is good news for everyone and particularly for farmers who are working the land. These measures may appear to be minor but they will have a large impact on the farming community.
I thank the Minister for attending the House today. The Bill is a short one but contains important measures which will be of benefit to farmers, the rural community and the country at large. The legislation is appreciated. I commend the departmental staff on their work, as well as the former Minister and his team. I also commend the new Minister and her team, including the Ministers of State, Deputies Brendan Smith and Browne. The Minister is always welcome in this House and we know the job will be well done in her hands. We look forward to that continuing. I congratulate her on her appointment.
In conclusion, however, I wish to put down a marker, which is somewhat different from that of Senator Coonan. The Minister has a difficult task ahead of her in dealing with the sugar beet industry. She knows that and I heard her talking about it on "County Sound" last week. It is an extraordinarily difficult matter which must be carefully managed, as the Minister is aware. If it is not well managed and protected, we will lose an industry in its totality. We are relying on the Minister in this regard. As she said, it may not be a major issue in Donegal or that region generally, but in the southern region it is important both for employment and farming incomes.
I welcome the Minister, Deputy Coughlan, and together with my colleagues I wish to congratulate her on her appointment to the Department of Agriculture and Food. It is a significant appointment in that she is the first woman to hold that office.
The Senator and I are going to do battle again.
Colleagues in the Minister's own party and others do not see fit to have female spokespersons for agriculture. I am sure the Minister will be relieved to know that not only am I the Labour Party's spokesperson on social affairs, but I am also its spokesperson on agriculture. The Minister and I have had genuine exchanges and in my previous encounters with her I have found her to be both reasonable and open-minded. I am sure she will carry those qualities through to her new portfolio.
As far as I can recall, it is the second occasion in two years that an agricultural Bill has come before the House; the other one dealt with Bord Bia. I wish to pay tribute to the previous Minister, Deputy Joe Walsh, with whom I share a constituency. He occupied that Department and held four ministerial seals of office over a period of 27 years as a Member of the Lower House. He served for 15 years as a Minister, which is quite an achievement. I wish him well in his retirement.
My party supports the Bill in principle, although there are some minor areas where we might have differences of opinion. I will be tabling amendments to reflect those differences on Committee and Report Stages. This Bill constitutes reforming legislation and its clear purpose is to modernise the archaic legislation that still exists. It all goes back to the Land Commission which was established in 1881 as a rent fixing body. We have come a long way since then. It would be practical and worthwhile if the resources of the Department are used to tie up the loose ends in this area. I am sure it would free up staff in the Department and lead to better productivity.
Simplification of the transfer of ownership will be a significant benefit, particularly to organisations such as the GAA. The Minister referred to 500 such trusts. I thought there were more. Nevertheless, there is no reason not to believe the figure we have been given. This is good because of the role the GAA plays in society. It is also good in terms of the proper and full development of trust property by sporting organisations. Such organisations do not own the land so they have no enticement to do anything with it. The Bill will pave the way for this type of development and investment in such tracts of land.
We cannot overlook the fact that when passed the Bill will result in the Exchequer being €18 million better off, which is significant. It is not every day that Departments can have areas cleared up and legislation modernised while ending up with a saving of €18 million. While it is not a lot of money in departmental terms, it is significant.
The historical write-offs are significant in providing a statutory basis for Government decisions made in 1989 and 1992. The nominal fee of €25.40 appears to be just that. However, given that 4,500 farmers will benefit, it will be a worthwhile figure, not least for the people involved. I accept it will lead to greater simplification in conveyancing. There are enough difficulties involved in such areas without the Department contributing to it. As Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Coughlan introduced simplification in the everyday language of Departments. This is a practical example of how to ease the difficulties and simplify the procedures involved in conveyancing. We must not lose sight of the fact that there is a clear commitment in this regard in the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness. It is one of the commitments being followed through by the Department.
I want to reiterate that my party supports the Bill in principle, even though there are potential flaws in some areas. Most of our amendments are of a technical nature. I am sure we can look forward to a good debate on Committee and Remaining Stages. Again I wish the Minister well in her new appointment.
It is a great honour for me to welcome the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Coughlan, to the Seanad today. While it might be Cork's loss, it is certainly the north west's gain. I congratulate her on her appointment as Minister.
I listened with interest to the Minister's speech which indicated that the farmers of this country owe a great debt of gratitude to the politicians who set up the Land Commission and to the people who administered the function of that office over the years, particularly since 1930. She said in her speech that, following the Second World War, the problems and tax regime that existed in England encouraged many people to come to this country to buy land. I recall farmers getting bills and annuities which they had great difficulty paying. One can imagine these people trying to compete with very wealthy people who were coming to this country and buying up land. It is important to put on the record our gratitude to these people for their foresight. The only negative aspect is the way they distributed the land, with a field here and a field there, which is still causing wars. However, the situation is improving.
I welcome the Bill which will mean annuities of under €200 for 4,500 farmers. I imagine most farmers would owe much less. It will give them an opportunity to buy out the annuity. The fact that the arrears will be written off will provide farmers with a great opportunity in this regard. I agree with other Senators that the six month timescale may be too short. I know from my auctioneering business that the situation regarding some titles is a mess. Sometimes they go back over two or three generations which takes a long time to sort out, so perhaps we should examine this aspect. It is important to get the information out to farmers. Some speakers suggested that the Department should notify farmers of their entitlement to avail of this opportunity.
It would be a good idea if the Department examined the capital gains tax charged on the sale of land under compulsory purchase orders. The last thing most farmers want to do is sell land. If they do so, the first thing they try to do is replace the land disposed of. This is becoming much more difficult because of increasing costs. It would help if this issue was examined. I welcome the Bill.
I welcome the new Minister for Agriculture and Food to the House. I spent the last week in Carlow at the ploughing championships and she was mobbed by people in the Department's stand. Her appointment received a mixed reaction from people in the Fine Gael tent. The fact that she is from Donegal was of concern to people from the south east. However, I am sure she will rise to the occasion and her able officials will help her in every way. I appreciate a different type of farming is carried on in the north west from that in the south east or south.
We have the Minister of State, Deputy Browne, to give the balance.
Wellies are the same in both counties.
It is great to see a fresh face in the Department. While Senator Callanan might sing the praises of the former Minister, Deputy Walsh, who did some good work, unfortunately he also made mistakes and did not do the work we hoped he would do. I hope a fresh face and the caring image of Fianna Fáil following the meeting in Inchydoney will mean significant changes in the next year or two.
I will make a brief few comments on the Bill. I enjoyed listening to the detail in the Minister's speech. One of my questions relates to the €18 million. Has she any idea where the money will go? Will it disappear into the general area or will it be used for specific projects? Is she open to suggestions in that regard?
The Minister made the valid point in her speech that the enactment of the Bill will reduce the administrative burden on her Department and permit staff to be redeployed to more urgent and productive areas. How many staff will be redeployed when the Bill is enacted and, if so, will job losses occur in the Department? One area which is screaming out for extra assistance is the Land Registry. In some instances it can take three years to get a title sorted out. Obviously, this would be a complicated case but the Land Registry appears to be stretched in terms of manpower. If the Minister intends redeploying staff, perhaps she will examine that area.
These proposals will have a significant impact on solicitors. I am aware from talking to some of my Fianna Fáil colleagues that solicitors are not too impressed with Fianna Fáil over the Personal Injuries Assessment Board. I am sure it will drive them wild when they find out what is proposed in this legislation.
What about Fine Gael solicitors? Are they in the charity business?
I am merely making a point.
Fine Gael solicitors must be better off than Fianna Fáil ones.
The solicitors will not be happy. The main thrust of the Bill is welcome. The purchase and registration of land is far too complicated. I was amazed to learn recently of a person in County Carlow who went to Australia where he is now building houses. Everything there can be done so quickly and without the assistance of a solicitor. This person received planning permission to build a swimming pool within a few hours. Perhaps we can learn from this example and make the process far less complicated by cutting out the middle people.
I was surprised to learn about the interest rates, as mentioned in the Minister's speech. As someone who has been accustomed to interest rates of 2% or 3%, it is difficult to comprehend that rates were as high as 18% in the 1970s, for example. It is possible that some people who are in arrears may have a case to make. The Minister alluded to the fact that those interest rates would be completely uncompetitive in comparison to what pertains in today's market. Perhaps there is scope in that way to make allowances for certain people who are in arrears and paying high rates.
I agree with the main thrust of Senator Coonan's speech in that I also welcome the Bill but disagree with some elements. I expect a debate on Committee Stage for the purpose of raising the threshold levels. I welcome the development with regard to GAA clubs but, although it is unlikely that such a scenario would arise, perhaps guarantees can be included that clubs or other sporting organisations cannot sell their land within a short time. It is possible that it might suit a club to purchase the land and then sell it off for a quick buck. This should be safeguarded against by inserting a time clause in the case of voluntary organisations, although it is unlikely such a measure would ever need to be invoked.
The Minister mentioned the value of land with regard to the land purchase annuity buy-out incentive. It is a good package in some respects, incorporating a 25% reduction, and the substantial increase in the value of agricultural lands makes it attractive for most, if not all, farmers to restructure debts and improve their financial positions. However, the Minister should allow some scope to consider every individual case. In my own county, for example, land near Carlow town has become exceptionally valuable while land in other parts of the county, such as near rural Hacketstown or Mount Leinster, is worthless in terms of potential development, although priceless to the owners.
An issue that is key to my constituents is the capital gains tax element, to which Senator Coonan referred, with regard to motorways. This is an issue that should be reconsidered by the Minister. It is unfair that a person whose land is the subject of a compulsory purchase order should then have to pay capital gains tax. The Government gave a commitment in this regard before the last election which it subsequently broke. Nobody wants a motorway through his or her land. The major inconvenience of having a farm divided in two is somewhat offset by the attendant financial compensation. It is unfair to receive a compulsory purchase order and to be subsequently presented with a tax bill.
Senator Callanan raised the issue of the sugar beet industry. County Carlow is the location of one of two sugar factories in the country. I am sure the Minister will have talks with the new Commissioner for Agriculture and Fisheries to ensure Ireland retains its quota and its two companies. The Minister may not be familiar with the sugar beet industry but if one considers all the beet growers in the south east, the hauliers and the seasonal workers, the number is quite substantial. I hope the Minister bears this in mind when she is negotiating at the EU.
It gives me great pleasure to welcome the new Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Coughlan. Many people have commented that she is the first woman in the post but what is most important is that she is the first Minister for Agriculture and Food from the BMW region since Mr. Ray MacSharry held the post from 1979 to 1981. Mr. MacSharry was a great friend to Irish farmers and the new Minister will be the same. She takes office at the beginning of a new era for farming and I wish her every success and am confident she will deliver great achievements. Fianna Fáil in Government is greatly committed to rural Ireland and both the Minister for Agriculture and Food and the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív, will be unstinting in their efforts.
It is right to pay tribute to the great job done by the former Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Walsh. His record is unique in modern Irish politics and he made a major contribution to rural Ireland and to the farming community in particular. He provided strong leadership through times of great change and challenge. His strategy and tactics secured a Common Agricultural Policy that will continue to meet the needs of farming families and our strong food industry into the future. Deputy Walsh's successful negotiation in the Agenda 2000 talks and in the subsequent CAP mid-term review in 2003 and his decision to introduce full decoupling of support payments provide a firm foundation for the future of farming. I wish him well as he continues to serve the people of Clonakilty and Cork South-West during the years to come.
I welcome the new Bill as it meets one of the commitments contained in the farming element of the Sustaining Progress partnership agreement and demonstrates the Government's dedication to the farming sector and the partnership process. This will pave the way for the write-off of small land annuities, including arrears, where the annual sum payable is more than €200 per annum. A new scheme will allow farmers with annuities over this amount to buy out their annuities at a discount of 25% subject to the full payment of all outstanding arrears. This discount buy-out scheme will be available for a limited period following the enactment of the Bill. This is good news for almost 7,000 farmers and I hope all eligible farmers pay attention to this deadline in order to avoid later disputes.
Another fine feature of the Bill is that it makes it easier for the Department to collect money, thus making it more difficult for those paying annuities to get into debt. I hope everyone who can benefit will choose to actively consider the generous discount buy-out scheme. For cost effective reasons, some 4,200 farmers with small annuities of not more than €200 per annum will have their debt written off. These provisions could, if the discount buy-out is fully taken up, extinguish the future collection of land annuities and bring to a close the outdated land purchase mechanism that started in the 19th century.
This Bill also provides for a number of amendments to the Land Act, arising from the dissolution of the Land Commission in 1998. One of these will make it easier for the Minister for Agriculture and Food to allow for the transfer of titles in respect of former Land Commission trust property at the request of the trustees. This is important as it will remove the current burden of legal, financial and ongoing management commitments placed on trustees.
Sport is an important priority for the Government. Fianna Fáil believes the value of sport cannot be over emphasised. I am glad that the passing of the Bill will ease the transfer of land currently used by sporting clubs and community groups to such organisations. In particular, some 250 GAA grounds around the country that currently require ministerial intervention to appoint trustees should be transferred to full GAA ownership. This can only be a good thing and will help the future development of the lands, resulting in better sports facilities and grounds.
The Bill also proposes to reduce bureaucracy through the repeal of sections 12 and 45 of the Land Act 1965. The section 12 amendment will remove the need for sub-division control in acquiring or redistributing land. This is a sensible and overdue modernisation as the State will no longer be involved in the process. The section 45 amendment requires that the consent of the Minister for Agriculture and Food must be obtained before non-EU or EEA nationals may purchase agricultural land in the State. This is not the first time these rules have been changed and this amendment ensures that we meet our obligations under EU membership. The section as it exists currently imposes unnecessary red tape and additional costs on those buying or selling land, which is unhelpful in the context of an enlarged EU.
I welcome the Bill. It delivers on commitments made in Sustaining Progress and provides more evidence of the Government's commitment to rural Ireland. I wish the Minister well in the coming months and years. She is the first female Minister for Agriculture and Food and I know she will be excellent.
I welcome our new Minister to the House and wish her well. She did a fantastic job in her previous portfolio and no doubt she will do an excellent job in this one also.
I am delighted to be able to support this welcome legislation. The provisions of the Land Bill 2004 will simplify matters regarding ownership. A significant number of previous Land Acts are outdated and complicated. The changes laid out in the Bill will tidy up much of the existing legislation. The Bill deals with a number of key issues, including the purchase of land, land reclamation annuities, the simplification of the transfer of land ownership and amendments to the various Land Acts.
The Land Commission, which was originally set up in 1881, has played an important role in Irish history and the life of families in every townland and parish. We all remember the stories of family, friends and neighbours who benefited from the distribution of land, both before independence and since. Fianna Fáil can be proud of the role played by its predecessors who helped to put the small farmer on a more secure footing.
Where is he now?
He is still there and always will be. From 1932 to 1948 the Fianna Fáil Government did a great job in giving land to those who needed it most, which helped to ensure the survival of our rural way of life. Irish landowners were able to purchase 13.5 million acres of land under the supervision of the Land Commission.
Times have changed dramatically since the 1930s and 1940s with regard to land ownership and it is important that the legislation governing ownership also changes. In 1999 the property of the Land Commission was transferred to the Minister for Agriculture and Food. As a result of this change in the responsibilities of the Minister, we need to make conveyancing procedures more accessible and straightforward. This is what the Bill sets out to do.
I am delighted with the number of changes laid out in the Bill, for example, section 2. Currently, approximately 4,200 farmers throughout Ireland are affected by existing land reclamation annuities. The majority of these farmers have small landholdings and the changes in the Bill will benefit them greatly. I know many small farmers who will benefit from these changes. The cost associated with the collection of annuities is extremely high while the amount brought in is small.
Life in rural Ireland has changed dramatically since the Land Commission was first established. Land ownership and how land is used have become more important and we need to change our legislation to bring it up to date with the reality of daily life. It is appropriate that the Bill which will sort out the problems relating to the Land Commission is being introduced now. I wish our new Minister and both Ministers of State, Deputies Browne and Brendan Smith, well. I am sure they will do well in the Department of Agriculture and Food.
I too welcome the new Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Coughlan, and wish her well in her new position. I also compliment her new Ministers of State, Deputies Browne and Brendan Smith. It would be remiss of me not to pay tribute to the former Minister, Deputy Walsh, former Minister of State, Deputy Aylward, who has gone to Europe, and Minister of State, Deputy Treacy.
I have always had an interest in the Land Commission and many years ago my first contribution in the Dáil dealt with it and the issue of commonages. I was keen, like many colleagues, that the Land Commission would divide whatever lands were available and, in particular, sort out the question of commonages. Unfortunately, to this day, there are still problems with commonages. I wrote to the Minister's predecessor and I will write to her about cases involving farmers who cannot get full area aid payments because two farmers have title to the same commonage. This will be a difficulty, particularly in the context of the six months provision for establishing title. It cannot be done in six months because of these difficulties. I hope more time will be provided and the issue of commonages will be addressed. It is not a good scenario to have farmers mixing cattle, etc, on commonages because of the implications for disease eradication.
I welcome the decision to remove the burden of annuities for many farmers and the Minister stated she will also deal with the question of arrears. I hope these cases will be resolved. Land acquisition has resulted in serious problems. If a politician could not ensure land would be acquired 20 or 30 years ago, he or she was in major trouble because people felt politicians should be involved. We were involved in land acquisition in Galway, particularly in regard to large estates such as Clonbrock and Dillon Mahon. We helped secure additional land for farmers.
One great benefit of this was the provision of land by the Land Commission to many sporting clubs. Many housing schemes were also provided. My own GAA club, Caltra, got the land for its pitch from the commission. The team was crowned All-Ireland champions on St. Patrick's Day this year, but we will not be there next year. However, I wish good luck to those who follow the team.
I wish to highlight the issue of farm workers, which has not been mentioned. When these estates were acquired, people working on them were in receipt of low incomes and, worse still, they were not treated well in terms of pensions nor were their spouses when they passed away. I asked the previous Minister to examine the issue and, in particular, to follow the example of the Tánaiste in her dealings with the former workers of the Irish Hospitals Sweepstakes when she was Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. They were in receipt of poor pensions but the Tánaiste has set a precedent, which can be used to benefit farm labourers, and I hope the Minister for Agriculture and Food will help them. They worked on these estates in difficult times and they deserve better recognition. A small number of people are involved and they have not received decent pensions. They should receive the same benefits as the employees of the Irish Hospitals Sweepstakes.
I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, to the House and I congratulate him on his appointment. He also has an interest in rural affairs.
The Minister for Agriculture and Food referred to significant changes that have taken place in land acquisition and division. There was a time farmers could divide the land in Counties Galway and Roscommon and it was always a major issue at election time. The Minister also referred to the question of land consolidation, which is important. We had a briefing session with the IFA earlier and its representatives also referred to this issue. They concluded that if a farmer sold 20 acres at €10,000 per acre and replaced it by purchasing 20 more acres at the same price, they would be faced with a significant shortfall of €45,346 after paying capital gains tax, stamp duty, auctioneer fees, advertising and legal costs. For example, stamp duty at 9% would amount to €18,000. The costs involved should be taken into consideration when land is consolidated. The Minister for Finance should examine this issue in the context of the budget and that is why the IFA was lobbying us earlier. Capital gains tax and stamp duty are two of the major costs involved. I hope the Minister for Finance will examine this and I am sure the Minister for Agriculture and Food will work hard to ensure that happens.
I welcome the Bill. I have been debating the issue of land acquisition for 30 years, particularly in regard to commonages, which should be divided once and for all so that the current confusion where farmers are claiming title to the same land is eliminated. Farmers are not being paid their full area aid entitlement and, despite the best efforts of the area aid section in the Department, farmers are having to wait longer for such payments. The Minister has done a good day's work by introducing these improvements. Similar Bills have been introduced previously to give people the option of buying out land. Under the Land Commission legislation, people could buy land or pay high rents on it. However, the Minister is easing the burden on farmers and, hopefully, they will be able to deal with the arrears issue, but they should be given more than six months to resolve the problem of title. That is a major issue in the west where there is so much commonage and fragmentation of land.
I warmly welcome the Minister of State. I am delighted to see him appointed as it is not before time. I am also delighted at the Minister for Agriculture and Food's appointment. As I commented on the Order of Business last week, it is new to have a woman Minister for Agriculture and Food but women have played a major part in farming life both as owners and spouses for a long number of years and it is only right that this stage should have been reached. I pay tribute to the work of Deputy Joe Walsh over a 17-year period with a brief interruption as Minister of State at the Department.
The Bill tidies up a social revolution lasting approximately 125 years. It is not often that somebody speaks on such a Bill from the ex-landlord interest. Countries such as Zimbabwe and Namibia did not have such a mechanism and it has led to substantial trouble. The origin of the Land Commission was the Gladstonian reforms of the early 1880s and, as the Minister stated, it was more about regulation of tenancies and rents and so on to begin with, but there was a land purchase element almost from the beginning. That became more important when it was followed by land redistribution. Naturally it was not perfect but it worked well during a period when land was the primary source of wealth and income for most people in the country. It managed to regulate pretty well the inevitable social pressures which existed in that context.
Times have changed and agriculture is no longer the main source of wealth, although it is still a very important source of income in large parts of Ireland. Clearly, the same pressures no longer exist. Unfortunately, I can foresee a day when we or the European Union must almost pay people to farm the land. Perhaps we are doing so already. I worry about it. I was on holiday in west Galway where I spoke to a local about how there seemed to be fewer animals than there had been when I visited the area five or six years ago. He told me that in a few years time, I may see practically none at all. That will be the problem.
It is refreshing to have legislation which dismantles regulations and unnecessary bureaucracy. There is no point employing officials to collect moneys which just about cover their salaries. We are discussing a social revolution which is effectively over and it is now a question of tidying up. We all support what is being done. I would like to see this approach being applied in other areas of Government where there is a great deal of potential for improvement. In many areas, people are being employed on tasks which do not add much to national welfare. The subject of our discussion remains of importance to many farmers, most of whom are no longer terribly young. Clearing up this matter takes a burden off them and leaves them and their successors freer.
The archives of the Land Commission are of great importance to our social history. At one time there were estates in every area of the country and the commission is in possession of a significant wealth of historical information. While I do not know how much of the archive is available to the public or historians, the papers in question must be maintained very carefully indeed. I hope they will be open to the public in the near future.
I welcome the legislation. While I do not know if it is the last Bill of its kind in a long list, we must be coming near the end of the road.
I extend a very warm welcome to the Minister, Deputy Coughlan, who has made history by being the first woman appointed to the office of Minister for Agriculture and Food in the history of the State. It is a well-deserved appointment. That a female Minister has been appointed in this particular field is the first real recognition that half of those who have worked the land have been women. Britain has never had a female Minister for agriculture. Deputy Coughlan's appointment is welcome not just because she is a woman but because she has the capacity to make a wonderful Minister for Agriculture and Food. I expressed to the president of the IFA the hope that his organisation will get on very well with the Minister and he replied, "We will see".
He is a Limerick man.
We all have our problems.
While the jury is out, I am sure he will have a great relationship with the Minister.
Coming from the rural constituency of Donegal, the Minister will be very familiar with agricultural problems. She has inherited from Deputy Walsh, who was an extraordinarily good Minister, a Department which is in fine condition. On decoupling and other issues, the previous Minister was ahead of the game in the European context. I would have liked to see him become the Commissioner for Agriculture and Fisheries, which would have been a great help.
So would Deputy McCreevy.
The Minister has a great opportunity. She will play a hands-on role in the areas of food quality, the development of the food industry and consumer interests. I served in the Dáil with her father and her uncle, both of whom were extremely competent Deputies. I also congratulate Deputies Browne and Brendan Smith, the Ministers of State at the Department, to whom I have no doubt the Minister will delegate authority on the basis of their experience. I was a Minister of State myself when Deputy Coughlan was a backbencher and we worked very well together. I also congratulate Minister of State, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe.
I spoke on the original Bill to deal with the dissolution of the Land Commission in 1992. I have been consulting the Official Report of the debate and note that quite a number of Members spoke on the issue. I was opposed to the abolition of the Land Commission as it provided certain controls on the purchase and distribution of land and played a very important role in the history of the State. Had we retained the Land Commission and all its powers, we could have restricted under European law the sale of land to non-nationals even if they were EU citizens. We gave away a great deal of power where some other countries would not have done the same. When I was elected to the Dáil in 1977, land distribution was one of the major issues of the day. I am sure the same was true when the Minister was first elected. The question was who would get a bit of land from the Land Commission. I was on many deputations to Merrion Street, as I am sure was the Cathaoirleach, to discuss the merits and benefits of applications for particular parcels of land with the land commissioners. It was very valuable work.
The Bill before us is timely, worthwhile and generous. It is important that all farmers with land are informed of its benefits as quickly as possible although I do not think publication in the media will work. The writing-off of all annuities of €200 per annum or less is a very generous gesture by the Department. It will benefit quite a number of farmers to the tune of €4 million. Farmers should also be informed about the opportunity to buy out land purchase annuities as the Minister has declared a six-month limit to resolve this matter. I appeal to all farmers who can benefit to do so on the basis of the 25% discount.
While the Minister may have come up with the best possible approach, she will be required to sell this offer to farmers. She must devise a method to get the message across to the relevant organisations, particularly the IFA and the Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association, to enable them to sell the plan to their members. I presume the Minister has a full list in her Department of all those who have land annuities and can arrange to contact them individually to inform them of the offer. The power will remain whereby land will be vested by the Department and to obtain a transfer will require the permission of the Minister for Agriculture and Food.
I ask the Minister to circulate to Members of both Houses of the Oireachtas the number of trustees in the country and their particulars. There are difficulties in certain areas with the way in which trustees conduct their business. They have become autonomous-type bodies without any recourse to the Minister or the Department. In some areas, the trusteeship has been increased beyond the number of trustees originally approved. Land is a valuable asset for the State. Oireachtas Members should be aware of who the trustees are in their constituencies and where they are located. A case is being taken in Gorey regarding a trusteeship which caused some difficulty for the Department in terms of legal costs. Identification of the trustees would be a useful exercise.
I also ask that the Minister make available information regarding land in the ownership of the Land Commission. I was previously able to obtain such information by way of a parliamentary question. I believe there are lands which have not yet been distributed by the Department. I would like to know the location of such lands and when they will be distributed. I am working from memory of the details provided to me regarding the location of properties throughout the country. It would be worthwhile knowing if such lands are in the ownership of the Department.
I agree with Senator Kitt's comments regarding joint ownership and commonages which is a complicated area. The Minister has available to her top officials who are former members of the Land Commission and they are aware of the position. Perhaps when tidying up this legislation, the Minister will consider that issue. I believe she may have to introduce legislation on the regulation of trustees and trusteeships for different properties around the country. I do not believe anybody in the House realises the amount of control trustees have over Irish property and that they are not answerable to Deputies, Senators or, in many cases, the Minister. I hope the Minister can resolve this issue which has a major effect on particular areas.
A trusteeship exists in Castlerea, County Roscommon. While I do not wish to make any assertions about that trusteeship, we need more transparency in terms of the activities of trusteeships which appear to be adopting an autonomous approach. The Minister has overall control in this area. Perhaps her officials, whom I welcome to the House, will note the situation and will, in due course, bring issues relating to trusteeships to her attention. The Minister may then, in her wisdom, decide to bring forward legislation regarding the powers and control of trusteeships dealt with in part by this Bill.
I again express my delight with the Minister's appointment and wish her every success, health and happiness in her new role. She is a proud representative of County Donegal. I know she will be as successful a Minister for Agriculture and Food as she was Minister for Social and Family Affairs.
Before the Minister replies, I too would like to be associated with the kind remarks expressed and to wish her every success in her new role. She has made history in being the first female Minister for Agriculture and Food.
Go raibh maith agat. I thank Senators for their kind remarks regarding my appointment. I look forward to working with Senators in a number of important discussions in due course. I did not realise I had such a big fan club. However, that could change very quickly.
I do not think so.
The Minister should ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Brennan, about that.
Allow the Minister to continue without interruption, please.
I thank all Senators who contributed to the debate. I have noted the remarks made and will take a minute or two to address some of the concerns expressed. I am sure we will have an opportunity for further in-depth discussion during the Committee Stage debate.
Overall, everyone has welcomed the introduction of the legislation. I will deal first with Senator Leyden's point about lands on hand, an issue of interest to me also. The Department, as successor to the Land Commission, holds 33 hectares of agricultural land and 655 hectares of non-agricultural land. The agricultural land is located in Galway, Mayo and Wicklow and the non-agricultural land is spread throughout seven counties including Cork, Galway, Leitrim, Mayo, Offaly, Roscommon and Sligo.
Most of the land deemed capable of being utilised for agriculture is of marginal quality. The exact location of some non-agricultural land is uncertain. Much of it is in old Congested Districts Board estates with some including graveyards, roads, water pipes and piers. Lands classified as non-agricultural are mainly bogland and woodland held in fee simple. In the case of bogland, some parcels are held in fee simple together with rights of turbary while others are held in fee simple only as rights of turbary over them have been allotted. I also have tabular information which I can make available to Senator Leyden following our discussion.
A number of themes ran through today's discussion. I am not surprised by the high degree of interest in this legislation. This is not the first buy-out scheme introduced. We must consider the legislation in the context of two previous buy-outs. In 1989, all annuities of less than £10 were written off by the Government of the day. There was a further write-off in 1993 of all annuities of less than £20. In 1993, a buy-out discount of 50% of the outstanding capital was also offered to each annuitant not in arrears.
I would also like to address Senator Coonan's point. All annuitants whose annuities were over 10% and who did not avail of the buy-out at the time had their annuities reduced to 10% and the repayments were rescheduled. We are not working in a vacuum; we are working in a continuum of buy-outs and discounts provided. On that basis, I would have some difficulty increasing the threshold. That matter can be discussed further on Committee Stage. My argument is based on the fact that farmers were given other opportunities at the time.
Did the Minister say the annuities had been reduced by 10% or to 10%?
They were reduced to 10%.
In other words, 90% of the annuity was written off?
Senator Coonan should allow the Minister to continue without interruption. He will have an opportunity to raise the matter on Committee Stage.
It was reduced to 2% and the repayments were also rescheduled. The concerns raised during discussion on that legislation were, in my view, addressed considerably.
Many Senators raised the claw-back or attachment issue. I assure Senators that the Department will not be draconian in terms of how it will deal with these issues. I agree with many of the sentiments expressed that we must take the opportunity to inform farmers on the matter and the Department will involve itself in a campaign in that regard. I hope also that Members of both Houses will take the opportunity, in their own inimitable way, of putting forward the issues concerned. The Department will try to contact as many people as it can and make available to them all the information possible.
Some Senators mentioned that many of the measures being introduced are causing concern. The Department of Social and Family Affairs had access to attachment orders. Every effort will be made to support people wishing to buy out. If a solicitor can indicate with sincerity to the Department that a farmer is dealing with his or her affairs, that will be acceptable. We all agree there are many difficulties in terms of estates, transfers, probate and so on. The Department will be sensible in its dealings with people during the six months lead in time ahead. People will have the opportunity before the enactment of the legislation to get their affairs in order and we want to ensure that people take it up.
The idea was suggested that people who would obtain the trusteeship when it is vested in Croke Park might sell GAA grounds. That cannot happen because if it is vested in Croke Park, the trustees in Croke Park must give permission for any sale. It would be a matter for the organisation and there it should lie.
Senator Leyden raised the issue of trusteeship, which is a difficult and complex matter. Some who are trustees for a long time may feel that the property belongs to them when it is held in trust on behalf of the people and that can lead to personality difficulties. People who were trustees of pensions were not familiar with their role and in any type of trusteeship people should be aware of what they are getting into and what their powers are. Their consent should be sought democratically. That does not always happen but that is how it should be.
Other issues were raised outside the parameters of this legislation and we will have opportunities to discuss them in the near future. The IFA is lobbying this afternoon for compensation from CPOs to be exempt from capital gains tax. That is an issue for the Minister for Finance and it will be brought to him in due course in the context of the budget. It is a valid point, particularly when many farmers have been reluctant to sell under the land purchase scheme and CPOs had to be invoked. It is an issue that should be examined.
The changes and challenges we all face were raised. We are very supportive of the live export trade, particularly the weanling trade. There are concerns about the trade and my Department and I will do all we can to ensure it continues and to open new markets. Last week we opened the market in Algeria, which will be valuable to our exporters. I will discuss many other issues with the Seanad in due course.
Staff redeployment was mentioned. Ten staff will be redeployed within the Department where there are greater pressures. I was also asked what will happen to the money raised. Any decision will be taken in consultation with the Department of Finance but we may look at innovative ideas that could be financed through funding provided by the implementation of this legislation.
I want to get rid of the idea that because I am from Donegal I will not look after people in the south of the State. When I was Aire Stáit sa Roinn Ealaíon, Oidhreachta, Gaeltachta agus Oileán, the people of Galway thought I would not help them. However, I represent the Government on behalf of all Members and it is my intention to ensure everyone gets the opportunity to promote their causes.
Senator Browne is right, the sugar beet industry faces difficult times with significant repercussions not just for producers, but for manufacturers. We will not have as many friends in court when it comes to the consultations but we will make every effort and use every personal contact we have to ensure we get the best possible deal for a valuable industry, particularly for certain areas of the country.
Gabhaim buíochas don Teach as ucht na hocáide a bheith anseo le tús a chur leis an Bhille seo agus go pearsanta d'achan duine a bhí páirteach inti. Tá súil agam go mbeidh díospóireacht bhreá againn ar Chéim an Choiste.
Question put and agreed to.
When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?
On Tuesday, 12 October.
Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 12 October 2004.
When is it proposed to sit again?
At 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 13 October 2004.