Skip to main content
Normal View

Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 4 Nov 2004

Vol. 178 No. 12

Veterinary Practice Bill 2004: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Tá áthas orm bheith ar ais arís sa Seanad agus Bille úr os bhur gcomhair. Cé go bhfuil an Bille seo tábhachtach, tá sé fada. Tá súil agam go mbeidh díospóireacht bhreá againn agus go mbeidh an dlí is fearr ar fáil ag éirí as an díospóireacht sa Seanad.

The veterinary profession has long played a pivotal role in the development of our agriculture and food sectors. Its expertise and commitment in the area of animal diseases has enabled our livestock sector to progress and improve, and by doing so to provide a safe raw material for our developing food industry. With developments in the area of veterinary medicine and treatment techniques, considerable progress has been made in combating a range of animal diseases which otherwise would threaten the stable food supply we now take for granted. These developments also contribute to the protection of consumers from diseases which are transmissible from animals to man.

While veterinary practice has traditionally been focused on combating animal diseases, in more recent years food safety and animal welfare have also become extremely important issues. Veterinary practitioners now fulfil a pivotal role, including within the State veterinary service, in carrying out inspection and certification functions at various stages in the food chain in order to verify both the standard of animals entering the food chain and the standards of the processing operations.

In recent years society has, quite rightly, become more concerned about the welfare of animals and this is reflected in a growing body of legislation in this area. Veterinary practitioners necessarily carry important responsibilities in ensuring that requisite standards are complied with. Care of a growing number and range of pet species has also become an increasing concern of society and veterinary practitioners play a pivotal role.

Given the role played by the veterinary profession and the responsibility placed on individual practitioners, from a public policy perspective it is important that regulation of the profession accords to the highest standards and meets current requirements in terms of openness and fairness and also facilitates the further development of the profession and its individual members. The earliest elements of the existing legislative foundations governing the profession have been on the Statute Book for over 70 years. While these were appropriate to their time, this can no longer be said to be the case. Consequently, my predecessor had accepted the need to sponsor replacement legislation and had brought this project a considerable distance during his period in office.

It is also important to place on record that this is not a matter of imposing a new regime on an unwilling profession. The Veterinary Council, which is the body charged under the legislation with day-to-day regulation of the profession, has drawn to the attention of my Department a number of shortcomings in the existing code, particularly in regard to disciplinary aspects, continuing professional development and standards of premises.

Against the foregoing background, I am bringing forward a comprehensive Bill which is designed to bring regulation of the veterinary profession fully up to date, taking account of the many developments in the environment within which the profession operates since the original legislation was enacted and which will also serve the needs of the profession in the years ahead.

It is appropriate in the public interest that greater transparency should be introduced into regulation of the profession and that broader legal developments, including in regard to human rights, should be reflected particularly regarding disciplinary proceedings. Among the principal features of the Bill are the provision for the first time in Irish legislation of a legal definition of veterinary medicine; a broader membership of a reconstituted Veterinary Council to reflect interests such as education, consumers, food safety and animal welfare and to provide a better balance as between veterinary practitioners and others; an updating of the provisions dealing with registration and for recognition of specialties in particular areas in veterinary practice; provision for continuing professional development which would be a pre-requisite for retention on the relevant register; a new model to deal with complaints and a broader range of proportionate sanctions; statutory recognition of veterinary nurses for the first time; the establishment and monitoring by the Veterinary Council of standards of veterinary premises; and the Veterinary Council to be given investigative powers commensurate with its regulatory role in relation to the profession.

The Bill giving effect to the foregoing is extensive, running to 138 sections and four Schedules. I propose to outline to the House in greater detail the principal elements of each part of the Bill.

Part 1 contains a number of standard provisions, including definitions and repeals. In regard to the latter, the Bill provides for continuation of the residual aspects of joint recognition arrangements with the United Kingdom under which practitioners registered before 1978 can retain membership of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, the UK regulatory body.

Part 2 deals with the former council. It is obviously necessary to provide for an orderly transfer from the existing Veterinary Council to the body which is to be established under the draft legislation. Among other things, this will ensure that existing staff are not disadvantaged in any way by the abolition of the existing council and that all rights and liabilities are properly transferred to the new council.

Part 3 deals with the Veterinary Council of Ireland. It is important to stress that the Veterinary Council has and will remain a self-funding body which does not receive any moneys from the Exchequer. I am proposing a fundamental restructuring of the council. The current membership of the council is fixed at 17, of whom 12 are practitioners elected by the profession. The remaining five places are filled by nominees of the Minister for Agriculture and Food and UCD, as the sole provider currently of veterinary degrees in the State.

While I consider that it would not be appropriate from the point of view of efficient operation to increase the overall size of the council, it is appropriate that its make-up should be rebalanced to avoid an inbuilt majority of members of the profession and to provide for representation by nominees of other stakeholders. This is not in any way an implied criticism of past councils or the current council. However, as a self-regulating profession operating under statute, in order to continue to command the confidence of society at large, a significant degree of external representation is required. Apart from any other consideration, the increasing complexity of the issues which the council is likely to encounter in the future means that it will benefit from the range of perspectives and expertise being brought to bear on any particular issue by such an approach.

Accordingly, I propose to provide for the following make-up for the council: seven members elected by veterinary practitioners; one member elected by veterinary nurses, to whom recognition is being given for the first time and on which group I will comment further at a later stage in my remarks; four members appointed by the Minister of whom two will represent animal welfare and consumers of veterinary services interests; two members nominated by providers of veterinary education; one member will be nominated by my colleague, the Minister for Education and Science; one by the Food Safety Authority of Ireland; and one by the Director of Consumer Affairs.

The composition as outlined is balanced in terms of the veterinary profession and broader society interests and will enable the council to carry out its functions effectively in the public interest. While the Bill does not provide for a inbuilt majority for the profession on the council, a majority of the profession on the council is not precluded.

The Bill specifies clearly the range of functions to be carried out by that body. These include the keeping of registers, establishing codes of professional conduct, approving programmes of education and further education and conducting inquiries and imposing sanctions on errant members of the profession. While it is appropriate that the council is being given all the necessary powers to carry out its role, including in respect of staffing and financial matters, provision is made for the Minister to give general policy directions to the council and ultimately remove it after due process should it fail to carry out the functions assigned to it under the legislation.

Part 4 provides the mechanisms which enable the council to function in its central role of registering and maintaining registers of practitioners. Provision is also made to safeguard the position of those registered on the existing register who, as of right, will be brought on to the new register. In terms of the categories of persons who may be registered, provision is made for those trained in the State as well as ensuring that we are in a position to fulfil our obligations under the EU mutual recognition regime. I also propose to make better provision for the council to register persons trained in third countries as under the existing legislation this was limited to countries with which the council had mutual recognition arrangements.

Experience of the 2001 foot and mouth disease episode gave ample demonstration of the potentially devastating effects of disease outbreaks in the national herd and the potential for damage to the economy as a whole. The veterinary profession played a pivotal role in dealing with the 2001 outbreak and it has been widely recognised that our effective and timely interventions ensured we were spared the large-scale economic and social damage which would have arisen from a failure to deal with the outbreak.

However, there are ongoing threats of disease outbreaks and we need to ensure that, if necessary and at short notice, we can call on an adequate supply of veterinary expertise from outside the State. Accordingly, I propose to provide for a category of limited registration to make this possible. Limited registration could also be granted, where the council considers it desirable, to suitably qualified persons whose particular expertise would be required for the teaching of trainee practitioners.

The Bill makes provision for the first time in legislation for a definition of the practice of veterinary medicine. This will give greater legal certainty to the council in the execution of its functions. The Bill will make it an offence for a person other than a veterinary practitioner to practise veterinary medicine or to use a title which implies that he or she is so qualified. Stringent penalties, which can range up to €130,000 and-or five years imprisonment, are provided in the case of a first offence or €320,000 and-or ten years imprisonment in the case of a second or subsequent offence. Bodies corporate will continue under this Bill to be precluded from engaging in the practice of veterinary medicine.

However, it is also necessary to recognise situations which can occur on the ground when a veterinary practitioner might not be available. Accordingly, I propose to make provision for treatment of animals in an emergency situation by a non-qualified person and for farmers to be enabled to continue to carry out treatments or procedures which were possible under the existing legislation. Furthermore, I propose to enable the Minister, following consultation with the council, to provide by regulations for non-qualified persons to carry out a very limited range of procedures. Such regulations would be required to be laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas.

The importance the Government attaches to the standard of veterinary education is evidenced by the significant funding provided for the construction of a state-of-the-art veterinary college on the UCD campus which opened in 2002. This impressive facility provides the infrastructure and facilities to enable our veterinary graduates to be trained to the highest internationally recognised standards. Bricks and mortar are only part of the story and people of the highest calibre are required to ensure that courses of study match best international practice. As I already mentioned, I have provided that recruitment of such people would be facilitated by this legislation.

The Veterinary Council has always carried a crucial responsibility in respect of the prescription of courses required for registration as a veterinary practitioner and I propose to continue to enforce this role. As the House no doubt recognises, we live in an era of accelerating change which requires a lifelong learning approach. This is particularly true in the case of the veterinary profession in which scientific progress and advances in treatments are a constant. Accordingly, I propose to enable the council to prescribe by regulation programmes of education which will be a prerequisite for remaining registered as well as optional courses.

In order to ensure that there is sufficient focus on educational aspects, I am providing that a dedicated education committee will be one of three committees which the council will be required to establish. Furthermore, I am providing for the make-up of this committee to draw particularly from the educational expertise on council and, where appropriate, to consult external expertise. The education committee, as part of its role of evaluating standards, will be charged with inspecting providers of education or of further education and reporting to council. Among the other functions which this committee will carry out is a role in advising the council in regard to specialties in veterinary medicine and on qualifications in veterinary medicine obtained outside the State.

Disciplinary procedures and sanctions are among the areas in which shortcomings in the existing legislation have been most pronounced. This has been due mainly to the lack of proportionality in the range of sanctions which could be imposed on those found guilty of wrongdoing. This Bill provides for a comprehensive reformulation of the fitness to practise provisions to take account of the proportionality aspect. In drafting the replacement provisions, it was also appropriate to provide for a greater degree of transparency in the disciplinary procedures. In addition, my Department has had to take particular account of advice from the Office of the Attorney General on developments in regard to human rights and, in particular, the European Convention on Human Rights.

The procedures provided for under this Bill are designed to ensure that complaints are fully investigated expeditiously and in a fair manner which safeguards the legitimate rights and interests of the complainant and of the person complained against. Two mandatory committees of the council are provided for, namely, a preliminary investigation committee and a fitness to practise committee. As its name suggests, the role of the former committee is to examine complaints and reach a view on whether a full inquiry, to be carried out by the latter, is warranted. The procedures have been constructed so that where there is a doubt, the dynamic is in favour of a substantive inquiry taking place. Provision is also made that the council itself is kept advised of developments in respect of a complaint, while ensuring that its view of the case is not prejudiced.

The composition of both committees is prescribed in the Bill to ensure balance and that outcomes can command confidence. In the case of both committees, provision is made for equal representation of practitioners and non-practitioners. In addition, in the case of the fitness to practise committee, an external chairperson, nominated by either the Bar Council or the Law Society, is stipulated. For the purposes of an inquiry, the fitness to practise committee will have the same powers, rights and privileges as are vested in the High Court in terms of enforcing attendance of witnesses, production of documents and administration of oaths. Penalties are provided for in respect of persons who commit offences regarding appearance before the fitness to practise committee.

The Bill provides for a wide range of proportionate sanctions which may be imposed by the council itself following a fitness to practise procedure. These are removal or suspension from the relevant register; attachment of conditions to continuing registration, which could include undergoing specified medical treatment; and giving of advice, warning or censure by the council, requiring the person complained against to make a contribution of up the €5,000 to the complainant or towards the costs of the council in investigating the complaint.

Due process is provided for in terms of notification of a decision and appeal, including appeal to the High Court by the person who is the subject of an adverse finding. The council is also to be empowered under the Bill to decide to remove from the relevant register a person who has been found guilty of an indictable offence in this State or equivalent offence in another state in respect of which due process is again provided for. In terms of transparency, it is important that the public has access to the outcomes of fitness proceedings. Consequently, the council will be required to publish all relevant details in its annual report.

While veterinary nurses have long been a feature of a significant number of veterinary practices, they have not, unlike their counterparts in the human field, enjoyed any separate legal personality under the existing statutes. The growing popularity of veterinary nursing is evidenced by the fact that a specific three year diploma course in veterinary nursing is now available in Ireland from UCD. Consider the 2003 INDECON report that examined this area on behalf of the Competition Authority. It stated, "The fifth key restriction operating in the veterinary surgeons profession that we believe is likely to be harmful to competition concerns the absence of legal status for veterinary nurses and the demarcation restrictions on the scope of practice of such professionals."

Against this background, I propose in this Bill to provide for the first time formal recognition of veterinary nurses. Responsibility in the first instance for establishing a register of veterinary nurses will rest with the Veterinary Council, which will be required to establish such a register within two years of establishment day. The Bill also provides that the then Minister may establish a veterinary nurses board of Ireland to take over from the Veterinary Council its functions regarding veterinary nurses. These arrangements reflect my Department's view that, given the organisation's current state of development, it would not yet be appropriate to establish a separate board of this kind.

I am proposing in the Bill to designate the limited range of functions that it would be appropriate for veterinary nurses to carry out, including certain functions they could carry out other than in the presence of a veterinary practitioner. Provision is also made so that in light of technological developments, for example, additional functions could be assigned to veterinary nurses.

I am anxious that those who are currently working as veterinary nurses and who do not have a formal qualification in this regard should not be unduly disadvantaged under this legislation. Accordingly, I am providing that those working as veterinary nurses on 27 October 2004, the date of publication of this Bill, may apply for provisional registration that could last for up to five years on the basis that they complete an approved course of education within that period. The arrangements outlined provide an appropriate framework for the development of the discipline of veterinary nursing within veterinary medicine and that these arrangements are in the interests of consumers and of the profession overall.

The existing Veterinary Council has, on the basis of a voluntary scheme, already done considerable work with the profession in improving veterinary premises. I now propose under this Bill to put these arrangements on a statutory basis. This provides that the council will make binding regulations relating to veterinary premises within one year of establishment day. These regulations will cover aspects such as the classification of types of premises, standards to apply to different categories of veterinary premises and signage. Practitioners will have four years from the date of the council making its regulations to bring their premises fully into line with the requirements.

There is currently a wide variance in the standard of veterinary premises across the country and what might have been acceptable a generation ago is no longer acceptable. In addition, the lack of standardisation in signage can lead to confusion on the part of the public over the standard of facilities to be expected. The arrangements outlined provide a reasonable basis for practitioners to progressively bring their premises up to a required minimum standard.

By definition, the Veterinary Council's role in the regulation of the veterinary profession is central. It must, therefore, be given the necessary enforcement tools to carry out this role and, where appropriate, to be pro-active. Accordingly, it is proposed to give the council the power to appoint authorised officers to carry out inspections at veterinary premises and also investigations where it is believed that an offence is being committed or where a registered person is acting in a manner that constitutes professional misconduct. Provision is made for the powers enjoyed by authorised officers in the ordinary course and when operating under a search warrant issued by the District Court. Provision is also made for penalties where a person falsely represents himself or herself to be an authorised officer or obstructs an authorised officer.

The foregoing represents an overview of the main provisions of the Veterinary Practice Bill. It is comprehensive and well balanced legislation and takes account of both the needs of the profession and the public interest. It is designed to create a regulatory framework suited to modern circumstances.

I commend this important Bill to the House and certainly look forward to hearing the views on the Senators thereon.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. She is certainly keeping us busy.

And vice versa.

She has introduced two Bills in less than two months and she is correct that this Bill is long and detailed. I welcome the use of the phrase "Veterinary Practice" in the title of the Bill, instead of "Veterinary Surgeons", as used in the titles of previous Bills. This recognises the expanding nature of the profession and those who are employed in this area. I acknowledge the role played by veterinary surgeons in animal welfare and food safety. They have made a magnificent contribution over the years.

The Minister expressed concern about the welfare of animals. Animals are better cared for in this State than humans, as is evidenced from the fact that there is no waiting list for animals that require treatment. It must also be recognised that veterinary surgeons provide a 24-hour service every day of the year, including Christmas Day.

The Bill is intended to update the Veterinary Surgeons Act 1931 and it is long overdue, given that we have had no reforming legislation in this area since 1960. It is also welcome that the Bill is striving to better regulate veterinary practice. There are many reasons we need modernising legislation, including the following: the fact that veterinary medicine is impacted upon increasingly by EU directives on animal health and welfare; modern advances, be they in science or technology; medical advances; education and training; and broader social and regulatory changes. It is vital that the Bill recognises that the veterinary profession has diversified in its structure, particularly because of the significant expansion in veterinary nursing. I welcome the Minister's initiative in this area, to which I will return.

Regulation is also a key element of this legislation, particularly in terms of the changes the Minister has announced in the make-up of the Veterinary Council and its related role in setting standards and imposing sanctions on its members, a reformed structure for dealing with complaints, investigative powers and regulations on the conditions of veterinary practices and premises.

Will the Minister outline the consultation that was undertaken in the drafting of this legislation and its extent in the run-up to its publication? I am informed that veterinary practitioners were not even consulted on it and that they were led to believe the details contained therein would be largely inconsequential. The opposite is the case. There is no doubt this is major legislation and it is very hard to believe that the representative body was not even consulted. By way of comparison, it would be very hard to imagine a scenario in which the unions would not have been be consulted during the break-up of Aer Rianta. Were the direct users, that is, the farming and equine sectors, consulted? Was the Animal and Plant Health Association, the representative body for researchers and developers and manufacturers of veterinary products, consulted? Its help would have been invaluable.

The Bill will allow for the establishment of a new self-regulating council for veterinary practice, the key function of which will be the regulation of the practice of both veterinary medicine and veterinary nursing. The Minister may believe I am rushing but the Bill covers many issues and I want to address as many as possible in the limited time available to me.

The council will also create and, if necessary, update regularly all codes of practice and conduct of the profession. Obviously, this is necessary but I urge the council to ensure it continues to move with the times and reflect the changes occurring in the profession. The council will also be tasked with allowing for information to flow fully and freely between those in the veterinary practice and those who avail of their services. This is a crucial function of the new council as the industry has a duty to interact with its clients and the wider public.

Under section 16 of the Bill, which provides for membership of the Veterinary Council of Ireland, it is proposed that the veterinary presence on the council be reduced to seven from 12, despite the fact that council membership will increase by three members to 17. I fully accept that there is a need for greater representation by outside interests, such as those involved in consumer affairs, and food and health safety. This Bill suggests that the Minister for Education and Science could nominate a representative. So too could the Food Safety Authority of Ireland and the Director of Consumer Affairs. I have no problem with such appointments, by and large. However, I am concerned about the reduction in the number of members who are veterinarians. The reduction may not be in the interest of the public or veterinary practice. The presence of veterinarians on the council is vital given that they are at the coalface of the practice. They have much worthwhile technical knowledge and experience to contribute to the work of the council. The Minister should reconsider this aspect of the legislation and perhaps reach a compromise by increasing their representation on the board.

While the Bill does not exclude the presence of a member or representative of the farming community on the board, neither does it declare that such a person would be present on the board. Will the Minister consider this aspect given that the vast majority of users of veterinary medicine and veterinary services, and the largest financial contributors to the sector, are members of the farming and equine community.

The Bill is a comprehensive document, most of which is broadly welcome. However, section 46 appears to set off alarm bells. This section provides for the limited registration of persons whose services would be required for disease eradication or for education programmes. The Minister stated in a press release that maintenance of the highest standards within the veterinary profession is a matter of great social and economic importance. Obviously everyone would support these sentiments. However, such sentiments are not reflected in the current wording of section 46. This section, in effect, goes some way to undermine veterinary practice. The opt out clause of limited registration appears to permit a less qualified veterinary practitioner to practise. I am not arguing that in certain circumstances there will be a need for personnel who are not necessarily fully qualified veterinary practitioners. However, in terms of disease control and eradication, the involvement of such personnel should only be in emergencies such as the foot and mouth disease outbreak, swine fever or Newcastle disease and various poultry diseases, to name but a few. Matters can be resolved by altering the legislation to allow for participation of those who have limited registration status in cases involving only class A diseases such as those I mentioned.

Section 60 raises similar concerns to those I mentioned. It is ironic that as we try to better regulate veterinary practice, we are almost deregulating it under section 60. It is odd that we try to ensure more strict regulation and performance of duties from veterinary practitioners while under this section we appear to be allowing for back door practitioners. Veterinary practitioners in Ireland must undergo a comprehensive training and education programme, not least in veterinary medicine and pharmacology. There is a real danger that this section could undermine the profession.

The administration of certain pharmaceuticals and anaesthetics in particular is an area particularly open to abuse. As things stand, the administration of anaesthetics are classified as veterinary surgeons only, VSO, animal remedies. This means that, according to the decree of the Irish Medicines Board, veterinary practitioners only can legally give anaesthetics. This legislation would open the way for non-veterinary practitioners to perform this duty, which would run totally contrary to the rules of the Irish Medicines Board. The Minister must address urgently this considerable difficulty. It is difficult to see if this section can remain. I am not convinced either that the provisions in section 60 will protect farmers.

While section 54 sets out for the first time the definition of veterinary medicine, the legal definition used is comprehensive so that it would render illegal common practices currently carried out by farmers and other animal keepers and owners. Section 54 specifically provides that all existing common practices for the care and husbandry of farm livestock by a farmer or his or her employee be excluded from the definition of veterinary procedure. I am concerned that the total prohibition of persons other than veterinary practitioners performing a surgical procedure would criminalise current normal procedures such as dehorning and castration of young cattle. Equally, there is no reason services such as hoof paring and pregnancy scanning should be made unlawful. They should be exempt under section 60 by order of the Minister.

I welcome the statutory recognition given to veterinary nurses in the Bill. It is clear that the contribution of veterinary practice has grown significantly in recent years and it is fitting that it is finally getting its full recognition. There has been significant progress in recent years to formalise this recognition and improve the training and developmental education for veterinary nurses. I encourage their progression in line with development in the wider veterinary profession. However, the formal advancement of veterinary nurses in this legislation comes with a warning to the Minister about one aspect of the new functions assigned to veterinary nurses.

While section 92 sets out two groupings of procedures which can be undertaken by veterinary nurses, paragraph (a) lists the procedures which veterinary nurses can assist or carry out in the presence of a veterinary practitioner, and there does not appear to be a problem with this. Paragraph (b) is more problematic. This lists the procedures a veterinary nurse can carry out independent of any input by a veterinary practitioner, which is not acceptable. The measure goes too far, given that it allows for significant surgical procedures, which should only be carried out following direction by a fully qualified veterinary practitioner. We cannot give free rein to individuals who lack adequate training and qualification to carry out such treatments. An extension of this provides a scenario whereby a veterinary nurse could possibly set up an independent veterinary practice offering numerous surgical and animal health procedures. I hope this is an oversight on the part of the Minister and her departmental colleagues. I do not intend a slight on the important contribution and work done by the veterinary nursing profession, but they are two differently qualified and trained professions and it is vital this distinction is maintained. I am sure the Minister would agree with this, if one were to apply the contrast to human health and the distinction between nurses and doctors.

The Bill appears to be a replica of the New Zealand Animal Welfare Act 1999. As a consequence of the Act, a debate is currently raging in New Zealand as to whether veterinary nurses should be allowed to castrate cats, which they currently do.

The legislation appears to pave the way for a process of inspection of veterinary premises. How does the Minister envisage this will happen? Who will carry out inspections and what will be the likely cost of such regulation? This is very unclear from the wording of the legislation. It appears that consumers, particularly farmers, will have to bear the cost of all these regulations.

By and large, I welcome the Bill. I have serious reservations about a number of the sections and I have had serious discussions on the matter with the Irish Veterinary Council. It expressed concern about a number of the sections to which I referred. I am indicating to the Minister that Fine Gael will table amendments on Committee Stage when we will probably have an opportunity to deal in a broader way with the issues concerned.

I join Senator Coonan in welcoming the Minister, Deputy Coughlan, to the Seanad to carry out the business of the State. I welcome the presentation of the Bill and I commend the Minister for bringing forward this important legislation. I commend her predecessor, the former Minister, Deputy Walsh, for the work he did in preparing the Bill, which has taken some time to produce. Given that it is produced, I hope it will be passed as quickly as possible and that it will not hang around for a considerable time.

It is self-evident that the 1931 Act needed to be upgraded. It is not revolutionary in the sense that it is not totally new legislation. The functions of the new body are to continue, update, improve and upgrade existing structures.

The Minister referred to the provision for the first time in legislation of a legal definition of veterinary medicine. This is essential as it is not included in the 1931 Act or any amendments made since. The Minister also mentioned a broader membership of the reconstituted Veterinary Council to reflect interests such as education, consumers, food safety and animal welfare and to provide a better balance as between veterinary practitioners and others. I will have something further to say about this. It is essential that we have a broader spectrum on the council as it is time consumers had a direct role in food safety and animal welfare matters because they and what is available to them as food are our concerns.

The Minister went on to say the legislation would provide for an updating of the provisions dealing with registration and recognition of particular specialties in veterinary practice. The world has moved on, science has advanced and new technologies and techniques are in practice. It is, therefore, essential that this area be modernised and upgraded. The Bill will also provide for continuing professional development, a pre-requisite for retention on the relevant register. This, too, is essential. It will provide for a new model to deal with complaints and a broader range of proportionate sanctions.

We are conscious and aware of consumers and users of services. We also realise that people complain, for whatever reason, valid or invalid, to relevant bodies and authorities. They also write to Ministers and the media, for example, RTE. Dr. Charlie Bird, whom I congratulate, gets involved too from time to time.

The Bill will provide for the first time for statutory recognition of veterinary nurses. This is welcome and a matter on which I will have more to say. The Bill also provides for the establishment and monitoring by the Veterinary Council of standards for veterinary premises. This is essential. The Minister, Senator Coonan and I come from rural Ireland and know there has been substantial investment in veterinary premises in recent years. While many premises are sophisticated and modern, some still need upgrading. The Minister has allowed a specific period of time for this to be done.

The Bill provides that the Veterinary Council will be given investigative powers commensurate with its regulatory role with regard to the profession. This is hugely important as we have seen what has happened in other professions. We heard in the Seanad recently about people offering relief and cancer treatment. While I know the veterinary area is not related, the regulation of both sectors is similar. It is essential that the Veterinary Council is given the proper powers to regulate the profession. The Minister referred to persons who should not be engaged in veterinary practice and mentioned penalties ranging up to €130,000. A line should be drawn through the words "up to". This should be mandatory as it is time such activities were weeded out of all professions. The penalty must be written firmly into the legislation.

I would never underestimate the importance of the role played by the veterinary profession in the agriculture and food industries. Vets are active in a range of areas, for example, in the provision of advice for their farmer clients on how best to manage a myriad of diseases on their farms, as inspectors on behalf of the State in meat factories, and in research in public and private bodies. We must also recognise the significant role played by local authority vets. It took some time for local authorities to appoint these vets who do exceptional work, never more evident than during the BSE and foot and mouth disease crises. We must recognise the role they and general practitioners played. We should also recognise the leadership given by the chief veterinary officer, Mr. Rogan.

Veterinary practitioners generally and in the Department and council play a pivotal role in the control of the spread of disease and in ensuring the quality of the product available to the consumer. The central issue concerns consumers and what is available to them. We must recognise that vets have done their duty well. When the call to arms came, as with Senator Kerry who said he was "here to serve", they were ready and did their duty.

By virtue of their status, vets enjoy a privileged position, particularly when it comes to the prescription of medicines administered to animals. Not least because of this, it is crucial that their actions are open to scrutiny and, where appropriate, effective sanction to ensure high standards are maintained. For this reason, I welcome the new disciplinary procedures provided in Part 7 of the Bill. I fully accept that the code of practice contained in the Veterinary Surgeons Act 1931 no longer meets current requirements in regard to proportionality, transparency and so on. Clearly, the provisions involved need to be updated in line with developments in this area in recent years, particularly with regard to the principles of natural justice which must receive serious consideration as people make complaints for any reason nowadays. It is easy to blame "X", "Y" or "Z" and write a letter of complaint but we must be conscious that this could take a person's good name.

The revised model of fitness to practise provided for in the Bill will serve the profession well in the years ahead. The procedures provided for will enable the Veterinary Council to facilitate those who wish to do so to present complaints in a correct fashion. The composition of both the preliminary investigation committee and the fitness to practise committee, being composed of equal numbers of vets and non-vets, will help to guard against allegations of professionals closing ranks against ordinary members of the public. I also welcome the inclusion of an external chairperson with legal expertise on the fitness to practise committee. In an increasingly litigious era, I expect the inclusion of such expertise will lessen the tendency for expensive court actions following a decision.

As I am dealing with the preliminary investigation and fitness to practise committees, I will comment on the composition of the council. The Bill introduces a balanced membership with an independent chairperson. It will comprise two vets and two others. Like Senator Coonan, I am concerned by the reduction in the number of vets on the council. I had some knowledge of the organisation for a period of time and know how it functions. Council members make a significant input. I never saw it as a case of "them and us". The predominant factor in and overall interest of its function and role were to do the right thing.

The previous council had a total membership of 17, 12 of whom were vets. The provision in the Bill creates space. I agree with this and commend the Department on including this provision. However, reducing the number of places to seven places an enormous workload and burden on its members. This burden will not be borne well if vets have to leave their practice without recompense, other than expenses, to come to Dublin for meetings. For example, if a fitness to practise or preliminary investigation committee meeting is taking place, two vets will have to give a significant amount of time to it. The issues of not attending, leaving or changing dates of meetings are covered in the Bill. They create problems for vets. There is scope for more generosity. I would throw in my hat and say "Nein”. While I will not submit an amendment, I urge the Minister to return to the Department and in her common sense and intelligent manner examine what I have suggested. Veterinary surgeons have work to do. They must leave their places of work and attend various meetings where they give good service to the totality of the community. I am not asking for majorities on the council but for possibilities where work can be well done. This is not the first time I have mentioned this matter. I have been saying it for a considerable period of time.

It is also vital, given the potentially serious consequences to the livelihood of the person complained against, that his or her rights be fully protected. Every person is entitled to his or her good name until the contrary is proved. The processes and procedures provided for in the Bill strike an appropriate balance in this regard and, in the final analysis, the person who is subject to the inquiry has access to the High Court. However, the regime will ensure justice is done and seen to be done and litigation will be the exception rather than the rule.

On another issue, I believe Senator Coonan was guilty of a misunderstanding and I cannot agree with what he said. I am afraid I did not make a note of precisely what he said so that I could expand on what I wish to say on the matter and I apologise for that. However, we will have another opportunity to debate the point.

I welcome the statutory recognition of veterinary nurses, as I am sure everyone does. The Government has spent between €20 million and €30 million on the new veterinary college in Belfield. This is a significant investment by the State. However, as the Minister has said, it is education and not bricks and mortar which achieves results. We must ensure high-quality people are available to us, from abroad if necessary.

Our first batch of approximately 20 veterinary nurses qualified this year. Establishing them in an independent role may not be to their best advantage or to the advantage of the profession and the community. A veterinary surgeon certifies the health status of cattle being exported. He or she is legally responsible for the health of an animal in his or her care. A veterinary nurse who is practising independently of a veterinary practice could be brought onto a farm for a specific reason totally unknown to the veterinary surgeon who will be charged with the responsibility of signing his or her name to a certificate. The best way for this to operate is for veterinary nurses to be linked with existing veterinary practices. A veterinary surgeon need not be present for all procedures but someone must be responsible.

Does existing law allow a veterinary nurse to administer an anaesthetic? Currently, all anaesthetics are classified VSO, for use by a veterinary surgeon only. Furthermore, the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland code of practice lays down specific guidelines for the licensing and use of X-ray equipment in veterinary medicine which is at variance with section 92.

I have raised issues which are of concern to me. With some common sense and a slightly different approach, the Bill will be enacted very smoothly. I thank the Minister for coming to the House.

The Department of Agriculture and Food is to be congratulated on bringing forward this legislation. I welcome the Minister to the House. This is my first time to engage in debate with her in the House since her appointment and I wish her well in her new responsibilities. I know she will discharge them with energy and commitment, as did her predecessor. In the past ten or 15 years we have been very lucky in the quality of Ministers for agriculture from both ends of the political spectrum. They have done extraordinary work for the country and this should be recognised.

I have two reservations regarding the Bill, which I ask the Minister to consider. Section 29 precludes Members of the Oireachtas from membership of the Veterinary Council of Ireland. Why is this? This measure is offensive. On two recent occasions the Tánaiste has removed similar offensive sections from legislation, as have two other Ministers during the previous four years. These sections are included in legislation by draftsmen as a protection against double jeopardy in situations where statutory councils must come back to the Oireachtas. There is no reason for the provision in the Bill. I know of no one who wishes to be a member of the veterinary council and that is not the reason for my objection. I simply find the section offensive. Are Members of the Oireachtas lesser beings who cannot be appointed to the council? I ask the Minister to remove the section.

I am concerned at the lack of consultation with the veterinary profession. A few moments ago I telephoned the Irish Veterinary Union to ask how much consultation took place between the union and the Department. I read the Minister's speech and saw her reference to the perspective of the Veterinary Council. However, I have been around long enough to realise no consultation took place. The Minister says the Veterinary Council has drawn attention to shortcomings in the existing code. I am sure it has. Can the Minister tell the House how many meetings took place with representatives of the veterinary profession before the Bill was drafted and who represented the profession in that process?

I have been through similar processes on two previous occasions. I was involved for many years in the development of the legislation which led to the establishment of the Teaching Council. At every step there was consultation with representatives of the teaching profession. The Minister wanted to know what the profession thought and every proposed measure was examined. More recently, I was involved with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment in the establishment of the Irish Auditing and Accounting Supervisory Authority. For ten months before the authority was put together, representatives of the accountancy and auditing bodies were consulted, their views sought and the issues discussed. This omission can be corrected. The Minister should consult with representatives of the Irish Veterinary Union, the Veterinary Council of Ireland and Veterinary Ireland about their proposals for the Bill.

The Minister has stressed the importance of the veterinary profession to the public, as consumers of food. We have a vested interested in the work of the veterinary profession. The job it does is astonishingly important and will become more so. As food legislation becomes more important to the public they will ask more and more questions. I support everything the Minister has said on this matter. Veterinary surgeons are the forgotten heroes and heroines of the food chain. They do a superb job in very difficult conditions.

Are they like the teaching profession?

A current television advertisement for one of the pension companies which shows a vet out in the middle of the night captures my image of friends who are veterinary surgeons. It is superb.

The Minister should recognise the issue that was missing from her speech, namely, that we have a duty to win the trust and confidence of the veterinary profession in this legislation. We need ordinary members of the veterinary profession around the country to accept the legislation and make it work. I am sure they will. I want them to buy into it. The Minister should meet representatives of the profession before Committee Stage to listen to their views and to see how many of them we can take on board.

I have looked closely at the membership of the board and I know the intuitive response is that there should not be a majority of vets — or people elected by the veterinary profession — on the board. I do not know if that is the case, however. In this type of situation where they want to keep their profession as a high-profile and well-regarded one, I would trust them absolutely.

I welcome the movement to extend the register in a controlled fashion to limited registration in some cases, as well as including the organisation of veterinary nurses. That is crucially important. The examples provided in the Minister's speech are very effective. Senator Coonan raised important points as to the various functions in which veterinary nurses can become involved. That issue is one of concern. I am not sure if it can be covered word for word in the legislation. The Bill refers to the administration of anaesthetics but does that include putting down a seriously ill animal that is in pain? Is that giving an anaesthetic or is it humane killing?

It is covered.

Is that in the Bill?

If so, I probably missed that section. Whatever about the membership of the board, the Minister should consider the membership of the board's education committee. I firmly believe that committee should have a majority of members of the profession. The Minister should amend the Bill to allow for that. Such people should be there to work out the relevant educational processes, qualifications and courses involved.

I recall that on my first day working as a primary teacher, I was discussing with the school principal the book list for the second class I was to take the following year. He said, "Always remember, you've been through your college course and what you learned there is what to select to teach your pupils." The same applies here. There is a consumer interest on the board but I am not sure if it extends to having more than the number of vets on the education sub-committee. The Minister should examine that matter.

I welcome enthusiastically section 55, which, while it does not protect the title "veterinary surgeon", makes it illegal for anyone to represent themselves as being qualified in veterinary medicine. That is a major advance. It is something that the accountancy profession failed to have included in the relevant legislation. Senator Coghlan proposed that but we could not find a suitable form of words. The form of words is very effective in this Bill and it will be welcomed by the profession to stop shysters getting involved who would drag the profession down.

The question of a preliminary investigation committee is a fraught one that will be tested every step of the way in the courts. I recognise the difficulty the draftsman had in putting that provision together. I have been through this matter in a number of different ways and I know that, every time, domestic procedure, which includes redress, will be tested in court. I see one minor flaw in it, however, which concerns the preliminary investigation committee. That committee should immediately inform the person on the register who is being considered for an investigation. There is an issue of natural justice there. Some may ask why it is necessary to bother somebody, as it might prove to be a mischievous complaint and he or she should be protected but it does not work like that. The person should be told immediately that the preliminary investigation committee is considering whether or not to initiate an investigation.

The Bill provides that the fitness to practise committee may ask the person being investigated to respond or give views. The word "may" should be changed rapidly to "shall". We should be seen to inform people that they are being investigated and to want to give them every opportunity to defend themselves.

There is another flaw in the investigation process itself. The Bill, quite correctly, states that the person being investigated may nominate somebody to represent him or her at the fitness to practise committee's hearings. The Bill should go one step further, however. Unless there is advice from the Attorney General that proves me wrong, such a person must be afforded an opportunity to see all the evidence, not just a summary. As currently framed, the Bill qualifies a person's access to the evidence but he or she must be able to see everything. A person should also have an opportunity to cross examine and test the evidence. It is not nice and it makes the process cumbersome but the tenets of natural justice are clear in this respect. A judge will look at this legislation and say: "There is a veterinary surgeon in good standing with a large practice. His career, reputation, family and place in the community is at stake in this investigation and, therefore, no stone should be left unturned to ensure justice."

It is not just that a practitioner would be entitled to have somebody representing him or her there but we also need to state in the Bill that a practitioner is entitled to ask questions and test the evidence. The legislation should make it clear, which currently it does not, that a practitioner would have access to all the evidence. Such a reference should be included.

Section 78(3) states:

The registered person to whom the inquiry relates shall be given notice, in writing, by the Fitness to Practise Committee, sent to the address of that person as stated in the Register or the Register of Veterinary Nurses, as appropriate, of the nature of the evidence proposed to be considered at the inquiry and that person, any person representing him or her, or any person whom they wish to call to give evidence in relation to the matter on his or her behalf shall be given the opportunity of being present at the inquiry.

That subsection does not go far enough. I know why the Minister, the Department and the draftsman framed it as such. It sounds like a neat way of doing it and we would probably all find it attractive. However, the person must have access not just to the nature of the evidence, but to every scrap of it, on which his or her reputation will be determined.

Is the Senator saying that the words "as appropriate" should be deleted?

The subsection refers to "the nature of the evidence", rather than the evidence. The person should be given the absolute evidence against him or her. The practitioner should not just be entitled to have somebody there representing him or her or be present at the inquiry, but should also be entitled to question the people giving evidence against him or her and to test the evidence. If not, the practitioner will go to the High Court afterwards and the case will be lost. The Attorney General should examine that point. I am talking about the tenets of natural justice with which I am familiar. In all such situations a High Court judge will ask what is the nature of the domestic hearing or system that was used. Was it fair, judicially sound and did it recognise and respond to the tenets of natural justice? If so, a judge would tend not to go against it. If not, however, the lawyers will say that this evidence was never tested. The Minister should consider that carefully.

I will go through the Bill in more detail on Committee Stage. It is crucially important that the legislation works. I support its objectives, which are first class and nobody should dare to object to them. We have a responsibility to ensure that we win the trust and confidence of the members of the veterinary profession. We must also ensure that whatever legislation we enact will stand up to any test. On five occasions this year we have had to amend legislation that was passed only in the past two years, although not from the Minister's Department. That is because the Bills were not tested at this point. The necessity for amendments arose because lawyers tested the legislation once enacted. The Minister knows what will happen. If I were a vet under investigation who stood to lose everything because I could no longer practise if the decision went against me, I would fight, scramble and use every possible way to defend myself. I would go to a lawyer in the first place. The first thing a lawyer will do is ask whether it complies with the tenets of natural justice, whether it is a safe procedure, whether the person's reputation is being properly defended and represented, and whether the person under investigation is being given due process. The Bill as drafted does not expand on due process. This may be implied and perhaps it would be given. As a basic right they need access to all the evidence and should have an entitlement to question. While I accept this would make it like a court hearing, this is the way the world is and it is no fault of the Minister's.

The Bill is important. I appeal to the Minister to meet representatives of the veterinary profession to get their views on it. The offensive reference to Members of the Oireachtas needs to be removed. The Bill needs to be made safe from testing in the courts by lawyers to ensure it will work.

As I said at the beginning, the work of the veterinary profession is crucial to the health of future generations. The work of veterinary practitioners in fields, farmyards and surgeries is crucially important. They need every possible opportunity. The proposal to expand their educational opportunities is crucial. I notice the throwaway phrase about the mutual recognition of qualifications and I wish the Minister well in this regard. Her predecessors have failed to do this for 25 years. It would be great if it could happen. We often see newspaper reports of a vet in north County Dublin looking after seals or a vet in County Kildare treating a snake. They are involved in many ways and veterinary practice is a broad area, perhaps more extensive than human medicine.

Vets deserve our full support and the greatest recognition for the work they do. I ask the Minister to reach out to them and get their views to ensure that if they make reasonable suggestions we incorporate them as best we can. I wish the Minister well and I will be supporting the Bill.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. I join the general congratulations to the Minister on her appointment and I belatedly formally congratulate her. I wish her well in her onerous job. I had the opportunity to pay tribute here to her predecessor, Deputy Walsh, who guided Irish agriculture through some very difficult times. Apart from his work in Brussels, he deserves enormous credit for what he did to address the issues of foot and mouth disease and BSE. I do not wish that she should stay as long in the job as he did; I hope other alternatives beckon.

She would settle for two and a half years.

The Taoiseach's job is next.

I am sure she will do a very good job and she is well qualified for the post.

I pick up on the point with which Senator O'Toole concluded regarding the very significant jobs vets are called to do in our society, which they have done very well for a long period. The practice of veterinary medicine has changed dramatically in recent years and not just since I started farming some 30 years ago. Many vets have moved from practices catering for large animals to also treating small animals. They play a crucial role in food safety. Some 30 years ago in Kildare where I live, the norm was for the vet to be on-call 24 hours a day for large animals. That has now changed dramatically and many of them are located in towns with very good facilities to look after pets and small animals. They also cater for the bloodstock industry at the Curragh and do a fine job for the greyhound racing industry.

We have had a clear need for the Bill for some time. While it is a long Bill, as the Minister said, it is quite straightforward in its intent and in the regulations and structures it imposes on the profession. While high professional standards are important in any profession, in the past we have had a tendency to be very exclusive. In other words, unless one had the designated qualification from the desired university one was not regarded as competent to do the job, which is not the case any more. In any event it is addressed in the Bill. Under EU law regarding the movement of capital, goods and services, we must allow others to come and practise here, which is good.

We need an input from outside. If the profession is closed, over time abuses and lethargy creep in, which are not in the interests of the profession or of its clients. I know provision is made for people coming from third countries, with which I agree. Senator O'Toole is correct in saying this is a fraught issue, with which the Minister will have difficulties. Nevertheless it is important to try to go in that direction. It should be open for people who are properly qualified to come and work. There should also be opportunities for people who are less well qualified, such as veterinary nurses, to participate in the profession. They should have the protection the profession affords and the disciplines it requires.

Technology has also changed dramatically, which has placed an increasing burden on the profession. I agree with the Minister's views on the composition of the board. It is obviously desirable to avoid having a large board, which would become unwieldy and cumbersome. I accept that a board of 17 members is large.

I agree with Senator O'Toole on the issue of disqualification. I do not believe local authority members should be disqualified. I can see a justification for disqualifying Oireachtas Members, not because of a conflict of interest but because their exclusive focus should be here. In the past, I succeeded in amending Bills to allow local authority members become members of State boards. Some local authority members are very well qualified, including some very capable vets who would bring experience to bear, which would be useful to the board. Members of county councils and regional authorities should not be excluded from membership of the board. I ask the Minister to consider this matter.

We may have a difficulty fitting everybody into a 17-member board. I will argue for certain people as others have done. Consumers will be represented through the nominee of the Director of Consumer Affairs, which is correct. However, the farmer is a primary and very interested consumer. On all the food boards and most of the other boards under the auspices of the Department of Agriculture and Food, it has been standard practice to have farming representation. I believe we should find a vehicle to allow farming representation.

Senator Coonan mentioned the Animal and Plant Health Association, which is the body with primary responsibility for animal medication and remedies. Representatives of that association have an expertise that could be usefully employed on the board. These matters can be considered in more detail on Committee Stage.

Senator O'Toole made a point about consultation. It is the nature of such Bills that those who are primarily affected only become truly engaged when the Bill is published. It is difficult to get them to engage beforehand. I do not know the background in the case of the veterinary profession. However, I am sure its members will want to make an input on the Bill to the Minister. Some meaningful engagement with the profession should take place at this stage.

Some Ministers have a very good record of significantly amending Seanad Bills. In particular, I remember the Environmental Protection Agency Bill, which was very substantial legislation. It was amended considerably in the House. I do not suggest this Bill needs major amendment. However, this is the place to address any areas with gaps or confusion. Senators may have more time to make such amendments than would be the case in the other House and I commend that to the Minister.

Bearing in mind the size and composition of the council, the Minister is right in saying the profession should not have a majority because vested interests look after themselves, irrespective of the profession. If there is a majority of that profession at the council in a negligence case, it will give an edge that might not otherwise be given.

I am uncomfortable with the powers conferred on the Minister in section 14. We always say the current Minister would never be vindictive but under section 14 the Minister may confer on the council such additional functions connected with its functions for the time being as the Minister considers appropriate. That is different from the general policy direction provision contained in section 15.

The veterinary profession cannot be excluded from the raising of standards of corporate governance and members should not be able to continue on boards ad infinitum. There is nothing in the Bill to prevent a person from sitting on a board in perpetuity. The veterinary profession representatives are elected by ballot which confers a certain legitimacy, but it is unhealthy for individuals to sit on boards for 20 or more years. The rigours of corporate governance that apply in business should apply to the professions.

The council is entitled to establish committees other than the education committee which is defined. However, the Bill is silent on the numbers and composition of these committees, allowing them wide powers. Such flexibility is appropriate.

The registrar is not a member of the council and can be excluded from meetings. He or she should attend meetings other than those where his or her employment conditions are being discussed. It is unreasonable to expect a chief executive not to attend board meetings. There is also a provision for members not being counted in the quorum in the event of a conflict of interest. What does this mean? Can a person who arrives late vote? Persons should not have a vote or should withdraw from the meeting if they have a conflict of interest.

The Minister can appoint one person to the board who is not eligible to be registered but who performs functions of animal welfare. Would that be a person from the animal rescue centre or the cats' home?

Section 29 excludes members of the local authorities from membership, bringing political correctness to an absurd level. Persons who might have professional qualities will be excluded by virtue of membership of a local authority. Such membership could be useful. People should not be discouraged from running for election.

There is a fee to be removed from the register or to have additional qualifications included. If someone gets a PhD, he or she should not have to pay a fee to have it included.

I agree with the Minister about the need for transparency in disciplinary procedures. The General Medical Council appeared before the All-Party Committee on the Constitution when it was considering the issue of abortion and it would not even discuss general areas, let alone individuals who might have been disciplined.

I assume the granting of titles has to do with specialisation. As the profession becomes more specialised, it will be possible to accommodate persons other than veterinary surgeons who are doing similar work.

If the registrar makes a determination and a person appeals, it is standard practice to go to the High Court but that sets the bar high. Could it be done through the Circuit Court instead?

It is important to include veterinary nurses because they are an essential part of the service being provided. When will the Minister establish the separate regulatory body for veterinary nurses provided for in section 99?

The board will be established if it is necessary.

Is it being considered?

Under section 80, the penalty for non-payment of fees is disproportionate; it is almost the same as the penalty for being unfit to practice. I know they want the money but it does not seem fair.

I wonder about being able to issue a direction that a person should obtain specified medical treatment. The Minister mentioned human rights. A professional body would not have the legal competence to instruct someone to receive treatment.

It is reasonable that premises should be defined and that there should be standards in place that conform to certain criteria. Under section 107, however, a veterinary premises can be a farm. Does this create a loophole? A person could say a premises was a farm and practise without having to conform to the standards required in buildings not surrounded by land.

An authorised officer can only enter other premises with the consent of the occupier. This is provided for under section 127(1)(a)(ii). Under the Animal Remedies Act, where hormones were being used in cattle, the State conferred enormous powers of entry. There was much debate in the House about the human rights aspect of this in that one could enter a premises without a warrant. This was correct as it had a positive effect. It seems in this case, however, the power is delimited. Perhaps the Act covering the use of hormones could be used where necessary. When dealing with land which does not belong to a vet, one must get the permission of the occupier. This is an area which might bear examination.

I welcome this important Bill, parts of which we can examine on Committee Stage. Perhaps the Minister will examine some of the matters I have raised beforehand because it could save time and avoid the need for me to vote with the Opposition which I would hate to have to do. The profession has served us well, although there have been a few notable high profile exceptions, as is the case with every profession.

The areas of food safety and animal health have changed dramatically, as has the old image of the country vet who, like the country doctor, was available 24 hours a day and come out in the middle of the night for a difficult calving. There are still vets who will do this — fair play to them — but, like everybody else, the vet is entitled to a reasonable quality of life. This has led to the creation of group practices and so on.

It is important that the legislation in place is brought up to date and that the profession has defined guidelines within which it can operate. It is also important that it is self-regulating.

I welcome the Minister. Generally, this is good legislation which is both long and detailed. It is significant in what it aspires to do. On that note, I concur with previous speakers in regard to the level of consultation. I appreciate it is almost impossible to gain full approval for any legislation, particularly from the groups affected, but for the sake of this legislation and its passage through the House, if there has not been reasonable consultation up to now, perhaps there should be before Committee Stage. We need the goodwill of everybody affected by the Bill.

Section 29 has been referred to by two or three previous speakers. I see no reason members of local authorities should not be considered for appointment to the council. Nobody should be disqualified because of his or her position. There is expertise available among the members of local authorities who could play a valuable role on the council which might benefit from their presence. Their involvement on boards has been mentioned in previous legislation. Obviously, it is the Minister's prerogative to appoint whoever he or she wishes. However, it is important we do not penalise individuals. There could have been a good intake of persons with particular expertise or knowledge following the June local elections but who cannot be considered for membership of the council. Similarly, members of the council who aspire to be members of local authorities cannot do so.

I wish to raise a number of points about the veterinary medicine course in UCD. There are approximately 80 places available per annum for which the number of points required is very high. I do not believe the points system is absolute in selecting the finest candidates. Looking at the entry requirements for the nursing profession in recent years, there is an argument that those with a good bedside manner do not come through the process used, namely, aptitude tests and the points system. Some 80% of entrants to the veterinary medicine course are female.

There is the significant issue of the traditional role of vets as it affects younger women entering the profession, particularly in regard to maternity leave and the fact that vets must contend with large animals. Until now the profession has been male dominated and involves work which I do not believe is appropriate for a young woman. For example, dealing with very large and cross animals is a daunting task. This issue must be examined in the context of the entry qualifications required and the candidates the profession seeks to attract.

There is a very high suicide rate among members of the profession. This is a sensitive topic into which I do not wish to enter too much, although there are data which support this statement. One needs to consider the reasons, including the pressure exerted on vets. Some graduates are working in excess of 78 hours per week, which is criminal. I know it depends on the practice involved, who employs them and their conditions of employment, but there is an issue relating to contracts of employment. It is not fair that persons who slog away for three or four years to get an excellent leaving certificate result, who work hard for the five years in which they are in veterinary college and who work just as hard for a number of years to establish themselves in their profession and earn a reputation that they are sufficiently experienced do not enjoy the fruits of their labour until they are in their 30s. I do not know what the magic solution is to that issue, but providing for an interview as part of the entry requirements for the course might be good.

When they leave college, some graduates do not have practical experience in a number of critical areas, for example, caesarean sections in cattle which I witnessed once. It is a huge task which requires much skill and expertise, yet graduates leave veterinary college without undertaking an internship and are expected to conduct such a major operation. If I owned an animal or was to undertake such a task, I would think there should be a procedure in place whereby graduates would undertake an internship for one year during which they could develop these skills and expertise in order that they would not have to perform such procedures on their own when they leave college. It is unreasonable to expect somebody to be able to perform a procedure requiring such detailed expertise when starting out in the profession.

Students who obtain the MVB here are automatically accredited with the MRCVS. If American students who graduate from UCD want to work in the United Kingdom, they must undergo a host of examinations and assessment. There should be uniformity and consistency. Such students should not be penalised because they are American or some other nationality. If Irish vets are good enough to obtain the MVB and be accredited with the MRCVS, they should be.

Licences for drugs is another highly contentious issue, of which I am sure the Minister is well aware. A meeting was held last night and attended by many interested parties. I was not present but all and sundry were told to get their uncles, aunts, neighbours, parents and so on to lobby politicians on the issue. The Department issues the licences in question.

Debate adjourned.
Top
Share