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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 8 Dec 2004

Vol. 178 No. 24

Fishing Industry: Motion.

I move:

That Seanad Éireann condemns the Government for its inaction in relation to:

(1) A full review of days at sea, and also a comprehensive review of tonnage allocation, particularly in relation to the white-fish industry;

(2) fishermen and co-ops who are frustrated at licensing delays with the lack of response from the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources;

(3) the lack of progress in relation to promised investment in harbour development;

(4) the new licensing and control regime for aquaculture and shell fish farming;

(5) fish farming delays in relation to licensing; and

(6) the promotion of sea-angling as a viable option for future tourism development.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, to the House and congratulate him on his new portfolio. His appointment indicates a deliberate attempt by the Government to acknowledge the needs of the fishing sector, as the Minister of State has the expertise, skills, knowledge and experience of living by the sea as well as understanding the intricacies of everything to do with inland and other fishing.

This motion is tabled in a form which is critical and negative. However, I hope it will stimulate debate in the long term since positive debate is required to meet the future needs of the fishing industry. It is particularly essential given the conditions which prevail at present. In our own back yard, there is a great deal of negative labelling of the fishing industry, which is overshadowing the good concrete work which has been done by the major players in the past few decades in Donegal specifically and which has a resonating impact throughout the rest of the country.

The biggest impact is that people from different parts of the country feel the marine sector is not getting the recognition it deserves in terms of a Government portfolio. It is included in the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources and I understand a fight took place for it to be included in the title of that Department. Aside from all the domestics of the recent Front Bench re-shuffle, Fine Gael has highlighted the importance of having a specific marine portfolio, which is why Deputy Kenny thought it appropriate to appoint Deputy Perry to the Front Bench as the specific spokesperson on the marine. A further dilution of the marine portfolio would be bad for the people involved in the sector and for its potential.

The total length of the Irish coastline is 7,500 km and the marine industry employs 15,000 people. The total available supply of fish from fishing activity and aquaculture amounted to 354,803 tonnes, valued at €313 million at first point of sale. Sea fish landings at home and overseas amounted to 293,868 tonnes valued at €206 million. Landings made directly into overseas ports, mainly in Scotland, Norway and Spain accounted for €35 million of this value. The aquaculture sector produced an output of 60,935 tonnes in 2001 with a value of €107 million. Some 2,500 people are engaged in the sector farming finfish such as salmon and trout and shellfish such as mussels and oysters. Production of finfish in 2001 amounted to 25,082 tonnes valued at €79 million, while shellfish farmers harvested 35,853 tonnes valued at €28 million.

The home market for seafood is currently valued at €290 million at final point of sale. In 2001, seafood exports reached €433.4 million with a total tonnage of 310,879. Some 76% of exports were sold in EU markets with the remaining 14% going to third countries. The leading market destinations in 2001 were France, Great Britain, Spain, Italy and Germany. Other EU markets amounted to €22 million. Trade with third countries amounted to €96 million, the leading markets being Egypt, Japan, Poland and Romania.

In addition to the core activities of sea fishing, aquaculture production, processing and marketing, the industry generates additional business for ancillary services including transport, equipment supplies, chandlery and net-making among others. This activity provides employment for up to 2,000 people. Fine Gael took this on board seriously by appointing a dedicated marine spokesperson, while the Cabinet has yet to appoint its own marine Minister.

Fine Gael supports any move that would seek to safeguard fish stocks in Irish waters. It is in the environmental and economic interest of the country, not to mention the many communities that rely on fishing for their future. The difficulty many have with the policy is how it reaches its aim and the disadvantage to which many smaller fishermen are put because of the way in which the CFP is implemented. The agreement provides for a range of fishing days, from no restrictions at all to 12 days per month, depending on the type of fishing gear used and the level of cod, sole and plaice catches. Total Irish quotas for 2004 amounted to 204,379 tonnes, compared to 189,500 tonnes for 2003, an increase of 8%.

The deal secured for 2004 also included additional quota secured under the Hague preference system under which Ireland gets additional whitefish quota at the expense of certain other countries. Despite this, the time is right to look at the detail of the deal and see how many Irish fishermen are losing out under the scheme.

Fine Gael's Front Bench spokesperson on the marine, Deputy Perry, has also raised the issue of fines for breaches of these rules. Figures from the European Union show that the average fine for unauthorised fishing in 2001 was €84 in Finland and €1,040 in Denmark, but in Ireland the fine was a staggering €12,700. This is more than 11 times the EU average. The fines for the use or keeping of prohibited fishing gear in this country are seven times the EU average and for failing to record data in logbooks, Irish fishermen pay almost six times the EU average fine. Such breaches are considered criminal offences in this country, while in other EU states only administrative sanctions are imposed. What is more, unlike elsewhere, the entire catch is confiscated upon detection of a breach of the rules.

In no way do we condone the breach of the CFP and we fully support the European Union's attempts to preserve fish stocks but there must be a level playing pitch. It is vital there is a common approach to penalties to ensure Irish fishermen are not put at a disadvantage to their EU counterparts.

The Government has shown its complete indifference to the marine tourist sector by not allocating a penny in funding for the marine and natural resources tourism programme. Although the Estimates published last month indicate that €2 million has been allocated to the sector, which is a cut of 30%, this money will not be spent as it is ring-fenced for the four infamous marina projects at Kenmare, Roundstone, Rosses Point and Caherciveen, which were given the green light without the required EU approval by the former Minister, Deputy Fahey.

The €2 million allocated is unlikely to be spent in light of the huge difficulty in Europe brought about by the manner of the then Minister, Deputy Fahey's, announcement of the four marina projects. These projects were not part of a €25 million EU-approved project to develop and transform coastal tourism in Ireland shelved two years ago because of the "economic climate of the time". With an improvement in the public finances, surely now is the time to dust the scheme off. It is particularly disappointing when combined with the 9% cut in funding for development and upgrading of harbours for fishery purposes. The Government, which has long neglected the needs and livelihoods of fishermen, is now abandoning those who are trying to create alternative ways to sustain communities and protect jobs.

Ireland's tourism industry is booming and it is vital that Ireland exploits its significant potential as an attractive destination for sea angling tourists. With the abundance of coastline and inland waterways, Ireland is the perfect destination for all types of angling holidays. Salmon, trout and sea trout are native species and Ireland's lakes and rivers have preserved their character in a landscape which has changed very little over the centuries. The Irish coastline is also one of the most varied, with dramatic cliffs and many miles of wide strands. This variety offers unlimited opportunities to the sea angler, who can find somewhere to fish all year round.

Ireland also has some of the cleanest and most lightly-fished fresh waters in Europe. The Irish landscape has over 11,000 km of riverbank for the coarse and pike angler. This natural asset is valued by a plethora of bodies from Bord Fáilte to the Central Fisheries Board but Ireland continues to lack a consistent, persistent, aggressive marketing of its fisheries tourist potential. If it is a matter of money, let the Government contemplate the following fact, contained in the national development plan's provision to the BMW region — it was an allocation for "recreation and sport facilities" designed to include fisheries and address the urgent need for their development. By mid-2004, not a single penny of that allocation had been spent. It is not unreasonable to suggest that this underdeveloped area of our tourist potential be targeted for that investment in the years to come.

As well as the nitty-gritty of this motion, Fine Gael's aim in discussing this vital issue is to continue to put pressure on the Government to belatedly take the marine sector seriously. For too long, fishing communities, businesses in the angling sector, seafarers and all who rely on the waters of Ireland have received scant attention from a Government which, as the Celtic tiger roared, lacked the vision to see that Ireland has an invaluable resource that needs to be protected and promoted.

Fine Gael is determined to protect the livelihoods of those who work in our seas and rivers. That does not mean endless subsidies or wishful pipe dreams. It means innovative investment, proper planning and a sense of social justice. Anyone who favours those principles should support this Bill.

I want to make particular reference to a few areas. Without going into too many of the specifics of the days at sea, the groundswell response from many involved in the marine is that the days at sea versus tonnage argument is not working. It is a model designed in Europe which affects seriously the livelihoods of many small fishermen along the coast. As I stated at the outset, it is an area which requires further debate. Finding solutions to issues in the marine sector is not an exact science. The marine sector is changeable. Changing times result in different needs and demands.

There is much hypotheses and theory and many consultancy reports putting forward ideas of coastal zone management and how best aquaculture can survive alongside fish farming and tourism. Many of the studies lack common sense on how all these industries can survive together. Many aquaculture industries such as mussels, scallops and oysters are emerging, not for the first time but perhaps on a grander scale. There should be more emphasis on developing the shellfish sector in conjunction with our natural commercial product, whitefish.

The Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, will relate to this. The lobster season, although short, is able to sustain the livelihoods of many fishermen through the country. It would make common sense to encourage fishermen to tag and throw back the female lobster. Although the lobster industry is thriving in certain parts, our aim is to conserve. We do not want to fish our waters bare. The Minister is in total agreement with me on this. We certainly want to work on restocking. If this means fishermen getting paid to catch a female lobster, tag it and throw it back in, then that is the way we must move forward. That is one of many measures one could take. There are many such examples of what can be done for the marine harbours in Donegal. Fish farming is thriving in Scandinavia and there is no reason that it could not thrive here also. The Minister is also well aware of the issue of the allocation of licences, which should be addressed.

I second the motion.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, to the House and wish him well in his position. He has a great interest in the marine. In my party's recent reshuffle in the Seanad, I requested Deputy Kenny to allow Senator McHugh be spokesperson on marine because I know he, coming from Donegal, has a tremendous interest. Whereas the marine would be extremely important in fishing ports like Killybegs, Greencastle, Dingle and Castletownbere, it may not be given the same emphasis in my county of Limerick. Nonetheless it is a subject in which I have taken an interest over many years. In the other House, I was Front Bench spokesman on the marine and natural resources. Deputy Woods, a former Minister, was hailed as an all-conquering hero in Donegal. The marine sector practically eulogised him because at that time there was quite a refurbishment of the whitefish fishing fleet and generous grants were available. There was considerable success. There was a kind of momentum within the marine industry and perhaps to some degree that momentum has now dissipated.

The Minister faces a difficult time in December. I know from past experience that in the period coming up to Christmas Day most people decamp to all parts of the country from 16 or 17 December when talks begin in Brussels. The fishing organisations attend these talks and are very concerned about their outcome. The International Council for the Exploration of the Sea, ICES, produces projections on tonnages based on scientific evidence. Total allowable catches are then projected which are not necessarily consistent with ICES projections. The conservation plans of ICES would mean the death knell for much of the fishing industry. There is a certain amount of give and take when it comes to the trading in Brussels and certain improvements are made in certain fish quotas and cutbacks in other quotas. The combination of pelagic and demersal fishing led to a degree of optimism about the herring and mackerel fleets in the area off Killybegs and the fishing off the Norwegian coast.

When I was in the marine brief I took a trip to Norway. Four or five years ago the Norwegians seemed to have a more enlightened policy regarding the fishing industry. I acknowledge Norway is not in the European Union and it has certain accession rights but as a sovereign state, it recognised the importance of the oil and gas and fishing industries. It struck me at the time that Norway was already making great attempts to deal with the issue of discards. It is recognised within the fishing industry that the existing type of quota system and what is allowable for fishermen to bring back to port, often lends itself to other fishing by-products being discarded. This is a pity because in many cases it involves juvenile as well as mature fish. I do not know to what degree the European Union has tried to target the area of discards to see if improvements could be made.

The weighing-in of fish catches is another element which is unfair to fishermen. In many cases the water is weighed as part of the tonnage and this is a distorted mechanism vis-à-vis other European countries.

Yesterday Sky News broadcast a programme on fishing which dealt with the British and Scottish fleets. An article in The Independent referred to the disappearing cod and hake stocks. It made for depressing reading and British and Scottish fishermen must feel very downcast about the industry.

Our fishing fleet is a very minor part of the overall European fishing scene. Spain is one of the dominant fishing countries, along with Portugal and France to some degree. Those countries often dominate the type of European fishing policies. The article describes the projected depletion of cod and hake stocks. The depletion of hake is due to the overfishing by the Spanish because hake is a very important variety for consumption in Spain.

It is quite an achievement to see the total allowable catches which shows a projected increase — I stand to be corrected if I am wrong — in hake and cod. The cod increase is small because it was seen as a vanishing fish stock and some of the conservation policies may be bearing some fruit. It is interesting to note that fish fingers are being marketed not as cod fish fingers but as being made with hoki fish from New Zealand.

I often wonder how fishermen can make forward plans. The Minister of State's officials will also remember when there were encouraging accounts of the depletion of fish quotas and the names of deep sea varieties of fish were becoming familiar to us. We heard names such as the orange rowi, grenadier and scabbard. They began to appear as part of Irish cuisine. Quotas are now being introduced because of a depletion in those stocks. It is no wonder that fishermen are becoming frustrated at going out to fish.

I could speak critically about the fishing policy but I prefer to be constructive about decisions made with regard to certain trawlers and super-trawlers in the past few years by the previous Minister, Deputy Fahey. It was a short-sighted policy in respect of the overall fishing fleet. Many fishermen regard the decisions taken then as being unfair, inequitable and unjust.

I was pleased that Senator McHugh tabled the motion because the House rarely has an opportunity to have a constructive discussion about fishing. I recognise the frustrations with which the Minister of State must deal in Brussels later this month and the frustrations of the civil servants and the fishermen. In many areas if the fishing fleet and fish processing industry did not exist, there would be no other industry.

I wish the Minister of State well in his discussions. I note that one of the fishermen's groups is represented in the Visitors Gallery. I also wish them well in their discussions in Brussels. I can sympathise with the fishermen because they face an impasse. Senator McHugh referred to the fishing days at sea which is another impediment and fishermen must be very frustrated.

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Seanad Éireann" and substitute the following:

"commends the Government's continued commitment to the sea-fisheries and aquaculture industry in its substantial programme for the reform and sustainable development of the industry as outlined in the programme for Government and the national development plan, recognises the considerable progress made to date in the implementation of those work priorities, and welcomes the Government's plans for the delivery of the Government programme and the national development plan during this Government's term."

I join with other speakers in welcoming the Minister of State to the House. I am pleased to have the opportunity to make some points about the marine issue. The motion is a highly irresponsible representation of the true facts of the industry. The House has heard all but an acknowledgement of such from Senator Finucane in that he understands the issues in play and the frustrations that any Minister of State in any Department will have in trying to deal with the issue.

It is clear from reading the motion that it could not possibly have been written by Senator McHugh, being from an area such as Donegal and being so aware of the progress made over the years. Nor was it written by Senator Finucane. I wonder if it was written by the Fine Gael spokesperson in the other House, Deputy Perry. I am sure that if it was written by him, being opposed to the marina in Rosses Point in his own constituency was not part of it. It would be interesting for his constituents in Sligo and for the county councillors in the many constituencies around the country where the other four marinas are supposed to go to know that the Fine Gael position is to oppose the marina.

The proposed amendment to the motion is eminently justified by the facts underpinning the Government's record in respect of the marine sector and I commend it to the House. Under this Government there has been a record level of spending and capital expenditure over the past number of years on harbours and in a wide variety of other areas. Next year, €95 million has been earmarked for the development of the marine sector and this will greatly improve marine communities around the coast. The Government has set out its developmental plans for the sector in a very clear way in An Agreed Programme for Government and the National Development Plan 2000-2006 and it is following through on the various commitments. Many have already been delivered and we are moving quickly ahead in a systematic manner to deliver on the remainder.

To refer again to the motion, under no circumstances can the action and proactive approach of recent years be described as "inaction". The person who drafted the motion is clearly not politically aware. Perhaps it would be understandable if the person who wrote it had been asleep for the past ten years. I am amazed that Senator McHugh and others with responsibility in the Fine Gael Party allowed the motion to be tabled.

It was written by fishermen.

Contrary to the motion, the evidence points to a period of considerable action. I look forward to hearing the views of the Minister of State as they will give us greater insight into the various areas on which progress has been made. I note in this regard the Government's commitment to the sector, both in terms of the sum of €95 million funding allocated for next year, to which I have already referred, and its willingness to work closely with the industry to solve problems.

As a member of the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Senator Finucane, like me, was in a position to meet all the representative organisations yesterday. If one were to ask any of the organisations, one would find that there has never been such frequent contact and meetings on all marine issues with the various fishing organisations. The level of contact is unprecedented and a clear indication of the direction the Government wishes to take and the industry's approach to working with the Government for the mutual benefit of all players.

The enthusiastic approach taken by the Government in setting out an ambitious reform programme is especially evident on the legislative front. The modern licensing system currently in place due to legislative changes advanced by the Government is a case in point. Equally good progress has been made in many other areas. I am aware, in particular, of several major fishery harbour development projects. In County Donegal, Senator McHugh's home area, €53 million was expended on a wonderful development in Killybegs.

Thanks to former Deputy Thomas Gildea.

Other developments in Castletownbere, Rossaveal and Dunmore East are ongoing or imminent. These are all positive developments involving expenditure of many millions of euro. It is money well spent and I have no doubt that these worthwhile investments will yield many benefits for fishermen, the fishing industry and other harbour users in the regions in question. The Government is clearly making progress in developing the marine sector.

I will address the six points outlined in the motion. In terms of days at sea, it is significant that it was this Government which secured many important concessions in this area. I am sure the Minister of State will refer to them. It was successful in having European Union proposals adjusted to minimise the effect on the Irish whitefish sector, thus allowing the main whitefish effort, prawn fishing, to be largely unaffected. An acknowledgement of this significant achievement would be much more responsible than blindly giving out about days at sea.

As regards delays in licensing, while some may have occurred initially, the record will show that turnaround time has significantly improved and is much quicker than in the past. The motion refers to "a lack of progress in relation to promised investment in harbour development". I have never heard such a joke given that the level of investment, amounting to millions of euro, has been unprecedented, not least in Killybegs and other areas. In addition, many smaller piers have been developed in conjunction with county councils.

I am sure the Minister of State will deal with aquaculture. With regard to the "promotion of sea-angling as a viable option for the future tourism development", there are no grounds for the claim of Government inaction. Bord Iascaigh Mhara operates a scheme under which grants are regularly allocated.

Grants are not the issue.

Senator McHugh could not have written the motion as he knows much more about the issue than the person who drafted it. Senator Finucane all but acknowledged that fact by not referring to any aspect of the motion. He spoke of frustrations and his understanding of the issue given his experience as spokesperson on the marine in the Seanad and the other House. It is irresponsible of the Opposition to table the motion, on which I look forward to hearing the Minister of State's views. I commend the amendment to the House.

I acknowledge that many challenges face the fishing industry. To use a famous political phrase, a lot has been done and there is more to do. This will be the case long into the future as issues and challenges will always arise, never more so than now. We wish the Minister well in the forthcoming Council meetings in Brussels.

Notwithstanding my short political career, I have some knowledge of the Minister of State. I can state confidently that there is not a person alive who is more experienced or talented or better placed to work on behalf of Ireland and the fishing organisations in all matters marine. I am confident that with the support of the House he will consistently achieve the best possible deal on marine issues.

I am glad to have an opportunity to say a few words on the motion. I welcome the Minister of State to the House. He is a man of great experience who has extensive knowledge of his brief. The question, however, is what level of Government support does he have? The Fine Gael Party suspects that, unfortunately, he enjoys little support and we sympathise with him.

The Government has allowed the introduction of days at sea limits for fishing vessels in the Irish Sea and off the north-west coast. These are useless in stock conservation terms and penalise all fishermen operating in the areas in question, regardless of whether they target or catch the stocks, particularly cod, which are supposed to be the beneficiaries of these measures.

The Government has presided over encouraging whitefish vessel owners to purchase new boats with grant aid. This leaves them up to their eyes in debt, while the fishing opportunities open to them are allowed to disappear before their eyes. It is tantamount to encouraging fishermen to commit economic suicide.

While millions are expended on developing non-quota fisheries, such as deep water fisheries for orange roughy, scabbardfish and grenadier, or, as happened previously, on the development of a driftnet fishery for Albacore tuna, which became a vital industry in ports such as Dingle and Castletownbere, measures which would all take pressure off quota stocks, the Government has presided over the decimation of fishing opportunities in the form of ever lower quotas for deep water species and the ban on tuna drift netting, measures which will have disastrous effects on the fishing industry.

Having given a gift worth more than €100 million in the form of free tonnage — effectively fishing rights — to one operator in the fleet, the scandalous Atlantic Dawn factory freezer ship, and lobbied for the project against all best policy, the Government in 2004 allowed the owner of the vessel to abuse his position as a monopoly supplier to force pelagic fishermen in the business to shell out to the tune of €10,000 per gross tonne through its introduction of a flawed and deeply inequitable licensing scheme. In so doing, it forced fishermen to borrow vast sums of money to solve a problem of the Government's making in Brussels. Not only has the Atlantic Dawn become a byword for Irish Government incompetence, a negative ongoing factor in Brussels, it has forced over-capitalisation in the pelagic sector at home.

The slavish implementation of ridiculous new European Union regulations in respect of the weighing of pelagic fish at Irish ports — Ireland ran ahead of all other EU countries in its haste to implement the measure — has created the crazy position of water being effectively weighed as fish, wasting valuable pelagic quotas. The industry has issued repeated warnings that the effects of these measures would jeopardise valuable export markets for horse mackerel, for example, and effectively encourage Irish vessels to land in foreign ports. This is threatening the processing infrastructure and has resulted in Killybegs, our premier port, becoming a ghost town this winter, with factories closed and hundreds of people on the dole.

Government incompetence has resulted in fishing ports operating under a curfew system with restricted hours of landings. This is unacceptable for an industry which operates 24 hours per day, seven days per week and is dependent on weather, tides and market requirements.

The fishing industry is frustrated at the quagmire that is the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources. Senators may argue to the contrary but the reality is that there are inordinate delays in all stages of issuing licences, from licence offers through to issue. The system of issuing licences under the Fisheries (Amendment) Act 2003, far from being effective and transparent, is a complete abdication of responsibility by the Government. It is a cynical effort to make amends for strokes and deals of the past, while leaving civil servants carrying the can as best they can. Last year the Government raised harbour charges for Irish fishermen by over 350% at a time when fish prices at point of first sale have never been lower, insurance, fuel and compliance costs have risen to crippling levels and fishing opportunities are limited by ever-expanding and inappropriate regulation.

The Senator has one minute remaining.

I wish to refer briefly to the current allegations of malpractice made by one individual which recently led to a series of "Hawaii-Five-O" style dawn raids on fishermen's houses in various parts of the country. There are serious question marks as to how such a matter became the subject of a Cabinet decision and criminal investigation. I look forward to hearing the Minister's comments on the matter.

I apologise. The Senator has two minutes remaining.

Thank you. I thought I had a bit more time. I am not saying malpractice should not be investigated, but I am querying the criminal context. Could these matters not be dealt with at an administrative level? There is no lack of regulation and powers in the fisheries sector. Who decided or recommended this course of action? I am not criticising the gardaí, who are merely doing their job, but the Government's sense of priorities in choosing to deal with the matter in the manner it did. Is there evidence of a similar line taken with regard to fisheries offences in other EU countries? Is the Irish situation unique?

I am concerned about the handling of this situation and the cloud it has thrown over the whole fishing industry. It is a proud and decent community and I had the privilege of knowing many members during the eight years I was a member of the Dingle harbour board. I urge sensitivity and balance in the conduct of the investigation and that the overall factors which led to it be given due consideration at the appropriate time.

The Government has turned its back on fishing, fishermen and coastal communities. It seems to have decided fishing is a sunset industry, rather than a vital part of the fabric of the Irish economy in particular coastal peripheral communities. It is more concerned with broadband and sexy communications issues. The Government has relegated responsibility for the marine from a frontline Cabinet position to a semi-junior fiefdom and is in a hurry to send it to the far reaches of County Cork. In saying that I am not criticising Clonakilty. However, there is a sense of out of sight and out of mind. I have paid the Minister a compliment. He is a man of experience and vision, but I worry about the support he gets at Government level.

The fishing industry was never at a lower ebb and in spite of all the prophets of doom, it could be a vast and renewable resource generating jobs and wealth far into the future. It is not good enough for the Government to bury its head in the sand or blame Brussels. It is the responsibility of the Government to support and promote Irish fishing interests in a positive, aggressive and competent manner, something it has thus far failed to do.

I do not agree with the motion but I thank Senator McHugh for tabling it because it gives us all an opportunity to debate the various issues. It also gives me an opportunity to defend the Government's position not just for the sake of it, but on the basis of fact.

It is ironic that Fine Gael spokespersons and Senators are not prepared to look back at the core of the problem. I am not critical of those who negotiated the Common Fisheries Policy because at that time no one foresaw the development which would take place subsequently. It is a great credit to the industry, both producers and processors. At that time, we had an inland, inshore fleet. Those prepared to make investments were the people who had confidence at all times. The Government of the time, and after 1987, was prepared to make investments, and major investments have been made since then. A Fine Gael Minister signed off on the Common Fisheries Policy in 1983. That is the core problem. We were locked into quota and TAC monitoring. The total allowable catch was generally accepted as 4.6%. I do not want to be political about the issue.

That was 20 years ago. We are talking about the here and now.

Tá an fhírinne searbh. We must look at the root cause and that is when it started. We will leave the matter aside.

Senator Coghlan referred to allegations. The Government took a decision on 10 or 11 October and investigations are being carried out. Nobody should draw any conclusions until the investigation is completed. Everybody is innocent until proven guilty. I am measured in what I say because to comment further would be totally improper.

A number of Members from this House attended the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources yesterday. Officials from my Department gave a detailed overview of the Commission's proposals. It is proposed to increase a number of quotas, and to keep others static. Unfortunately, it has also been proposed to reduce 15 quotas, two of which are written in stone. These are mackerel, because of the relationship with Norway and the straddling stock, and blue whiting. We will negotiate the others at official level over the coming weeks, at Council level on 20 December when we have bilateral talks with the Commission and Presidency, and in Council on 21 and 22 December. We will endeavour to secure increases in quotas because it is important for us, for the country and for coastal regions where there is no alternative source of employment. There is an obligation to create jobs and I do not take any credit for that. Any Irish Minister would work closely with the industry and officials. We have consulted the industry and will do so again prior to the Council meeting and will take on board their many concerns.

I have just returned today with Department officials from my second meeting with Commissioner Borg from Malta. I had a bilateral meeting with him and he possibly understands our concerns and difficulties in advance of the Council meeting.

A good barometer of the Government's record is the allocation of funding. In 2005 we are allocating over €95 million for a range of marine areas, such as fishery harbours, Bord Iascaigh Mhara, BIM, coastal protection and marine research which is also important. That is more than double the 1997 budget, the year we assumed office when the budget was €40 million. Sustainability of fish stocks is the main challenge facing the fishing industry and the Government is tackling the issue head on in partnership with the industry. Since my appointment I have said I want to work in partnership with all stakeholders. In addition to funding levels, this partnership approach is vital. For example, during Ireland's EU Presidency we focused on delivering two key aspects of the new Common Fisheries Policy. I would like in that context to refer to the regional advisory councils which I supported when a member of the European Parliament through the European fisheries committee. While such councils are only advisory, I am convinced, having spoken with Commissioner Borg today, that those representing us on the Fisheries Council will bring a great deal of experience to the table — a view which I held prior to that conversation. I am also convinced the Commission will take their views into consideration and, hopefully, will take them on board.

During Ireland's Presidency, we got EU agreement to fast tracking the development of environmentally friendly fishing methods, a long-time priority of the industry. Long before my appointment as Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, I recognised and appreciated the industry's views on environmentally friendly fishing methods and technical conservation measures, issues which were on the agenda in Ireland and the UK at a very early stage. Some progress has been made in that area. The fishing industry realises it is pointless landing small fish which are then being discarded, something which these new methods hopes to address.

Ireland has been active in regard to the days-at-sea regime. While we opposed a days-at-sea regime when first featured in 2002, there was no point in standing on the sidelines shouting "No" because wet could not decide our destiny. We cannot dine à la carte in Europe. Instead, we took the practical approach and negotiated changes with the full knowledge of the industry. Prawn fishery is the most important fishery in the Irish Sea and we successfully convinced the Commission that that fishery can continue without any significant days-at-sea impact. Senator McHugh referred to non-cod fisheries off the north-west coast. We succeeded last year in securing changes that greatly help fishermen targeting other species. On the Celtic Sea, the Commission has also accepted our view that other measures such as spawning area closures can recover that cod stock.

The situation regarding the whitefish fleet has changed for the better in recent years. Total investment of €123 million involving the payment of €30 million in grant aid to 151 vessels has delivered a modern whitefish fleet that can, for the first time ever, compete on a truly international scale. We also succeeded in unblocking the cap on funding at my first Council meeting, a large percentage of which, if not all, has been paid by BIM.

The programme for Government proposes the setting of a long-term strategy for the sustainable development of our fishing industry. We have already successfully negotiated a new Common Fisheries Policy. Of course we would like to believe we could have changed things but there are 24 other member states to consider. If we could decide our own destiny things would be different. In that regard, reference was made to Norway. I am envious of Norway's ability to decide its own destiny, something which Ireland cannot do but on which we continue to negotiate in the best interests of all aspects of the industry.

Progress has also been made on the implementation of a new licensing scheme for the inshore sector. Many inshore vessels have been unable to avail of grant aid but it is hoped that, as a result of that success, those boats will be licensed by March next year and we will work closely with BIM on such matters. It will be necessary for inshore vessels to comply with the code of practice but the marine survey office, my officials and BIM are working on this matter as we speak. It is hoped we will be able to assist them when purchasing equipment.

A major policy statement was launched in July setting out particular plans for the whitefish sector. On licensing delays, we have taken significant steps, not least of which the reform contained in the Fisheries (Amendment) Act 2003, which established an independent fishing vessel licensing authority with an independent appeals mechanism. The licensing authority found it necessary last year to suspend the processing of licensing applications pending the completion of a new transparent EU fleet management policy and the consequent introduction of a new national licensing policy. I am informed that applications are now being dealt with speedily provided all the necessary information required has been submitted. The vast majority of applications were issued with a letter of licence within a short period.

On harbour development, the National Development Plan 2000-2006 provides for €85 million for capital investment in fishery harbours infrastructure. By end June next year, long before the national development plan expires, we will have spent almost €95 million in some 100 different locations around the coast. We will have provided 75% of funding to local authorities for many harbours in their areas. These statistics speak for themselves. Reference was made to various harbours and to Killybegs in particular. I overheard a remark by Senator McHugh on Killybegs. Consultants were appointed to and reported on Killybegs. However, that was before the Senator's time. That report lay on the then Minister's desk for 12 to 18 months and never saw the light of day until the change of Government in 1997 when Deputy Woods became Minister. One of his first acts as Minister was to travel to Killybegs to unveil that plan for which the Government provided £80 million.

I agree with the Minister of State but former Deputy Thomas Gildea is taking credit for it.

I am making the point that the plan had been on the former Minister's desk for 18 months and might not have cost as much had goodwill be involved.

Work has commenced on a €25 million development at Castletownbere, an €8 million development at Clogherhead and a €6 million development at Rossaveal, County Galway. The public consultation process to identify the best option has also commenced in Dunmore East and Senator McHugh will be aware that proposals are also in the pipeline to improve facilities at Greencastle, a matter currently being dealt with by An Bord Pleanála. As my time is limited, this is but a quick snapshot of works either completed or moving through the pipeline.

On aquaculture licensing and control, the Fisheries (Amendment) Act 1997 established a modern and effective licensing system. The Act sets out the various steps that must be followed as approved by the Oireachtas. My Department undertakes an extensive monitoring and control programme in accordance with that legislation. What gives us the competitive edge in terms of aquaculture is monitoring and control. I would be the first to acknowledge there are problems in the fin fish and salmon farming sector and that we must address those. Production of farmed salmon has dropped from approximately 23,000 tonnes to 15,000 tonnes during the past number of years. Fish farming, salmon farming in particular, and the aquaculture industry provide much needed jobs in the most peripheral areas of the country. We intend to work with the industry, BIM and the Marine Institute in that regard. At a recent meeting with the industry in Dingle, I gave a commitment on the part of Government to work in partnership with it to try to overcome its problems.

I am the first to realise that critical mass in absolutely necessary. Ireland is at a disadvantage, as it is further away from the European mainland and faces competition from Norway. We are negotiating with the Commission on minimum import prices that will not leave us at a disadvantage. I acknowledge difficulties exist for the industry.

Sea-angling is a viable tourism development option which is receiving attention. A €3.7 million scheme is in place to facilitate diversification away from fisheries. Grant payments as high as €100,000 per project are available for a variety of activities, ranging from sea-angling to island tours to bird and dolphin watching. To date, the Department has approved support for 74 projects, providing grant assistance of over €1.3 million, resulting in a total investment of €3.5 million. This represents valuable support to these enterprises and communities.

Considerable progress has been made by the Government in promoting development of the marine sector. The programme for Government contains several important priorities including the reform of the Common Fisheries Policy, the introduction of a new fleet policy, the development of a long-term strategy for sustainable development of our fishing industry, the development of our fisheries harbours and effective management and service structures. The Government will focus on the December Council meeting and do its utmost by networking with all its contacts in the European Union seeking support. I agree with the Senators' comments on conservation. We are the custodians for future generations and must ensure a proper balance is kept. Senator Finucane referred to deep water species. Recommendations for huge reductions for species that only became included in quotas two years ago have been made. In this area we need to achieve the proper balance between the socio-economic advantages of fishing these species and conservation of stocks. Scientists will look only at the conservation aspect. However, at the December Council meeting, we will be arguing for the consideration of the socio-economic advantages. While the outcome may not be what we all desire, hopefully we will have a reasonable package to allow the industry to develop.

I always say in debates like this that I will not need my designated eight minutes. However, the Cathaoirleach probably knows me better than I know myself at this stage.

I do. The Senator will go for 12 minutes.

Each time I participate in a debate on fisheries, I am always impressed by the detailed knowledge of Members from the counties with large fishing industries. This belies any suggestion that there is a fund of expertise that knows better than elected politicians. Members are intensely aware of issues such as this and are more open to the experience of the people working in the industry than some of the experts who pronounce on it.

A debate on fisheries is like the two sides on the Titanic having a row rather than saving the ship. The Common Fisheries Policy has been a failure for a long time. It is impossible for a European Union of 25 member states to police properly its fisheries resources and to enforce forward-looking conservation policies, observed by all. One of the most profoundly wrong strategic decisions made by Ireland occurred during EEC entry negotiations when we traded a potentially lucrative fishing industry for the short-term gains of the Common Agricultural Policy. Both policies are now nearly gone.

I also have ethical questions — some international agencies have too — about western European countries launching enormous super trawlers and dispatching them to the west coast of Africa to catch other people's fish. This deprives people, already in grim circumstances, of their natural resources to make up for the scandalous way we have abused our own fisheries. One cannot entirely blame the Irish fishing industry in this regard. The impact of the Irish fishing industry on the fisheries resources of the European Union is minuscule when compared to other European countries' large fishing industries, particularly those of France, Spain and, to a lesser extent, the UK. However, the Irish industry has been disingenuous. As an outside observer, the fisheries industry seems to me to spend too much time telling us that the problem is not as bad as it is and, if it is, it does not need to be remedied. In a way, it has a point. I have no great confidence in the European Union, or in Ireland with its limited resources, to enforce many of the requirements of a proper conservation policy.

In my few years of idleness from politics, I asked a Dáil colleague to table a parliamentary question to ask the then Minister for the Marine the monetary value of fish caught in the Irish zone of economic interests by non-Irish registered trawlers. In his reply, the then Minister said the Department could only make an intelligent guess of €750 million in the previous year. How can one operate a serious conservation policy if it is not known how many fish are caught? Over 30 years, this amounts to between €15 billion and €25 billion in today's prices. That is the same amount as we received from the European Union for structural and other funds. It is a larger sum than we received from the Common Agricultural Policy. It is not an insignificant issue.

I made a joke about the Titanic because the European Union has a fisheries policy that will lead to the end of fish stocks in most EU waters. While I support the Fine Gael motion, I will repeat what I always say when the House discusses fisheries. As it cannot be done individually, it is time member states accepted collectively that the current regime is failing and will result in an absence of fish from most of the EU’s zone of economic interest within 50 years. While the investment in harbours is a great idea, as they will provide great tourist attractions and recreational facilities, if the EU fails to fundamentally review policy enforcement at Community level and by member states, the argument will be a matter for historians to review. They will ask how we got it so badly wrong.

I welcome the opportunity to speak on the motion and to support the Government amendment. The sea fishing sector has faced a great deal of difficulty over the past number of years due to declining stocks in EU waters. Whether people like it or not, we must regulate the sector to address the problem. If we do not do so, the fish will disappear and there will be no industry. A number of years ago, the waters off Morocco were full of fish, but the country allowed the Spaniards access to them under various agreements which failed to provide enough safeguards for the stocks. Those waters have been completely fished out. Agadir should be one of the world's premier fishing ports, but its vessels are tied up to rust and decay. We cannot and will not allow that to happen in our waters.

The Government has done extremely well in very difficult circumstances. The Irish Box was the priority for interested groups when asked about their fears for the Irish fishing industry in consultations prior to the Agriculture and Fisheries Council on that same subject 12 months ago. The Irish Box was established on 1 January 1986 and was supposed to be abolished on 1 January 1996, but we succeeded in maintaining it. While there were changes to it on foot of the Council meeting 12 months ago, by and large, everybody was happy with what the Government achieved. That the Irish Box will continue to operate until 31 December 2008 is a measure of Government efforts to ensure the viability of our fishing industry. The co-operation of the Department and the industry in the context of the Council was pleasing. For too long, Irish efforts in this area have been fragmented.

There was a further example of co-operation at yesterday's meeting of the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to which the Minister referred. Representatives of various fishing industry bodies attended to speak of the need for conservation of cod stocks in the south east. It is indicative of progress that industry interests came together to make such a suggestion.

However, I have certain concerns. Fishermen in my area ask why they always seem to be the ones required to suffer. There is supposed to be a cohabitation agreement. Fishermen from the south east are seeking the establishment outside the 1,500 sq. m. which have been set aside for conservation under an international agreement, of a 15 to 20 sq. m. area for gill-netting.

While most of the larger trawlers can come in and hoover up fish, local fishermen have been asked to give up their traditional fishing grounds. They are playing by the rules and trying to ensure there is a future in fishing. The minimum mesh in the nets they use is 30 mm above the recommended size and they catch no discards or juvenile fish. Fishermen in the south east operate in a tidal fishery and can only work seven or eight days out of every 14. I ask for them to be facilitated in the context of the so-called "cohabitation agreement". There is no point in fishermen like these making conservation efforts if next year or the year after large boats enter their waters and hoover up fish stocks. There should be some derogation for them. The complaint I hear year on year from fishermen around Dunmore East relates to large vessels. Such vessels should be prevented from coming within six miles of the shore and I hope a provision will be made to that effect.

I cannot accept some of the points speakers made about fishery harbours. They are all being developed. Improvements have taken place at Castletownbere, Killybegs and Dingle. Works continue at Rossaveel and there are proposals for Clogherhead and Dunmore East. The latter is the area on which I am most competent to speak and I know plans for it are very exciting. The harbour is currently choked, forcing boats to travel up river to Waterford. The favoured plan will involve the establishment of a new breakwater and the creation of an outer harbour providing greater capacity for fishing boats and freeing the inner harbour for tourism and leisure facilities. These plans are a great demonstration of co-operation among different interests and a model for other areas to adopt. The state-of-the-art facilities being provided nationally will enhance the attractiveness of our harbours for commercial activity.

It would be difficult to speak on these subjects without raising the vexed question of angling. We must consider salmon fishing. At the meeting of the joint committee yesterday, the Minister said he was against a buy-out of existing licences. The Indecon report of April 2003 examined the subject in considerable detail. While there is no doubt that tourism angling will add more to the economy, there are many valid reasons for allowing commercial fishermen to fish in peripheral and coastal regions. Approximately 70% of commercial fishermen would be prepared to consider a buy-out if one were offered. Referring to the buy-out in north-west England, the Minister told the joint committee that if Irish commercial fishermen were given equivalent sums, it would cost the Exchequer €100 million. I do not think fishermen would expect that much. There is a great case for a buy-out to which angling interests are prepared to contribute. A voluntary buy-out, as described in the Indecon report, is something we need to consider to a greater extent.

I wish to share my time with Senator Browne.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I welcome the Minister to the House and voice my support for the motion. Any measure that ensures we take the marine sector seriously is very welcome. For too long, fishing communities, businesses in the angling sector and seafarers have relied on the waters around Ireland. Much has been done in that context but a lot more can be done.

On the promotion of fish and the marketing of processed fish product, coming from Boyle in Roscommon, the home of Donegal Catch, I know that value can be added to a very good product. Donegal Catch is now exported to countries across the Continent and the company has provided badly-needed jobs in Boyle, north Roscommon, Gurteen, in south Sligo, and Donegal, as the Minister will be aware. That strategy should be supported because it will benefit the fish industry.

As a restaurateur I was always taken aback by the fact that salmon was less expensive than whitefish. We have underestimated the value of whitefish over the years. We did not market cod and other whitefish as well as we should have done over the years.

We should have a Minister for the marine. The Taoiseach was hard-pressed to include the marine in the Department of Communications and Natural Resources. Natural resources are a major element of this island country. We have a fishing box but within that box there are very considerable resources, including aquaculture, oil, gas and minerals. We must realise also that there are other resources not yet tapped.

I am concerned about inland waterways. We talk about tourism and the anglers who come here from Britain. Three years ago I made the point in the House, in connection with inland waterways, that fishing here was not the same as in the past, although the suggestion appeared to be dismissed at the time. Fishermen who used to come here from England are now going to Denmark and Holland. It is obvious that the fish stocks are not available and despite assurances from the various Departments, the Central Fisheries Board, the inland fisheries or whatever, fishermen will say that the fish stocks in the lakes and rivers of the Shannon system are not the same as they were previously. That has resulted in a major downturn in the tourism business. If anything arises from this motion tonight, there must be an independent report on those fish stocks. There is now a negative aspect to the tourism industry and inland fishing and despite what we have been told, that is quite obvious. The English fishermen who came here and who taught us how to conserve and approach the tourism industry have turned their backs on us and are now going to Denmark, Holland and further afield. That problem needs to be addressed by the Department.

There is no mention of that in the motion.

I thank Senator Feighan for sharing time with me. I too want to concentrate on inland fisheries. I am not from a county with a marine tradition but one which has a very proud fishing tradition on the River Barrow, the River Slaney and other minor rivers. It was terrifying to see the report in last week's Sunday Independent which said that the Irish stocks of wild Atlantic salmon have been exposed by figures which reveal that anglers in Scotland and Iceland have enjoyed their best fishing in more than 20 years, in direct contrast to our own. The statistics are very worrying. For example, plaice caught today is a quarter of the size of that caught a century ago. Shark, swordfish, marlin and tuna have declined by 90% and there is major concern about cod. In my own constituency there is major concern about salmon. There are major concerns in Carlow about drift netting, which is having an enormous impact on inland counties like Carlow. Senator Kenneally might have a different view but from speaking to anglers in Carlow, they see major difficulties with what is happening in the south east with drift netting, which is having an impact on salmon coming up the river.

It is worth pointing out that every fisherman who comes to an area spends, on average, about €1,000 between accommodation and other associated costs. Invariably, if such fishermen catch a salmon they might throw it back into the river. They fish purely for the love of fishing and that has a major knock-on effect on a local area. We should do everything in our power to ensure that continues for many years to come.

I read a report in The Guardian which was worrying. It stated that the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution will demand that 30% of the waters around Britain be designated marine national parks. That is because it has found out that 90% of the sea beds are empty because they are over-fished six times a year. There was mention also of the coral reefs being very badly damaged, which has a major impact on the source of food for fish.

When we talk about fishing, we must not forget about inland counties with rivers which have proud traditions in fishing. We often talk about Fenit, Killybegs and so on. However, fishermen in inland counties are feeling the squeeze also and, as a result, the bed and breakfast and other tourist facilities are experiencing a severe knock-on effect as a result of over-fishing in some cases.

I wish the Minister of State well in his office. He has a proud record in fisheries matters and was a very good apprentice when he worked with me in the Department of the Marine many years ago.

There has been veiled criticism of personnel in that Department but I want to record that there are very skilled, experienced, professional people in the Department, as the Minister is aware, who deal with this area every day. I could not allow a situation arise where there might be some reflection on the personnel who deal with licensing and other issues. The Department has been criticised in a veiled manner in the motion before the House.

Several speakers on the opposite side of the House spoke about the salmon fishing industry. Why was that not mentioned in the motion? There is mention of sea-angling, but no mention of the inland fisheries, about which I am very concerned.

We will bring that up the next day.

Senator Daly, without interruption.

I get very anxious when motions such as this come before the House. The back room people in Fine Gael must decide that because fisheries was not mentioned in the Seanad for the past two and a half years, they will be left very exposed if an election comes up.

The Senator still has not said anything about fisheries.

Senator McHugh, you will have an opportunity to reply.

I certainly will reply.

The Members opposite have not given any indication of Fine Gael's policy on that area. What is the party's policy on that issue? Perhaps Senator McHugh can tell us.

Senator Daly should say something about it now.

Order, please.

When Senator McHugh gets an opportunity he might tell us and put it on the record.

Senator McHugh will be replying shortly.

Perhaps he will tell us when he replies. I challenge him to tell us now.

Outside or in here?

There will be no challenges in this House. The Senator should make his contribution and Senator McHugh will reply.

We have yet to hear from Fine Gael, which expressed concern about the decline of salmon fishing and salmon fisheries generally. Does Fine Gael support the abolition of drift net fishing for salmon? Yes or no? It is a very simple question. Does Fine Gael wish to see drift net fishing for salmon continue or does it want to see it end? I would recommend strongly to the Opposition Members who tabled this vague, innocuous motion that they should read the BIM report for 2003, which is the latest available. The Department has a record of achievement in all aspects of the marine industry, including training, fish processing, harbours, aquaculture, salmon and mussel farming and so on. A total of 17 whitefish vessels have been added to the fishing fleet with 12 more to come on stream this year. Five new pelagic vessels were added to the fleet last year. The fishermen themselves have invested millions of euro because they have confidence in the work of the Minister of State and the Government to develop our sea fisheries, which can continue to make a significant contribution to coastal communities where it is important that employment and other opportunities should be created.

It is impossible to discuss the various aspects of this complex industry in a few minutes.

The Senator has spent three minutes giving out about Fine Gael.

It is unfair that the Fine Gael Members did not address the motion they tabled. They referred to the importance of inland fisheries but what is the party's policy in this regard? Does the party support the abandonment of drift netting? I compliment the Minister of State and wish him well.

I am absolutely delighted. Many people approached members of Fine Gael over the past three or four years regarding issues and concerns they have relating to the marine industry, which are not being addressed. I acknowledge the Taoiseach's appointment of Deputy Gallagher to the marine portfolio. Fisheries present a major challenge. Senator Daly is correct that inland fisheries is an issue. However, there are many issues in this industry and the Minister of State did not respond appropriately to the sea-angling issue. This not only involves dolphin watching; private entrepreneurs in Donegal are taking German and Dutch tourists on sea-angling trips off their own bat. The issue is the need for a comprehensive marine strategy, not the provision of grants.

We have raised the tentacles of Government Members in regard to the marine industry. I recall when I was a teacher I accused a young lad of not doing his homework in front of the class. His father had called me that morning to say he had not done it. The young lad lost the head when I confronted him and he went bloody mad. Similarly, when I accused the Government of not doing its homework on the marine industry, Senator MacSharry lost the head and went absolutely berserk.

The Senator did not do his homework on the motion.

I will not be political. There was no veiled criticism of the Department. The Department must be complimented from Greencastle to Castletownbere. The Minister of State acknowledged there were delays in the issuing of fish licences.

The Senator referred to a lack of progress.

That was acknowledged by the Minister of State. A plethora of challenges lie ahead on marine issues.

Inland fisheries will become a major issue in Donegal. Approaches have been made to the Minister of State in this regard. The issue does not centre on whether drift net fishing is abolished. It is all about balance because there are no simple solutions to fisheries issues.

Does Fine Gael support its abolition? It ran away from this issue.

The issue is on the table for local authorities to address. Will the local authorities and BIM draft a tourism framework for inland fisheries while disregarding the views of angling clubs? Anglers in Donegal are fed up because they were disenfranchised during the consultation process. I am flagging this issue, about which there are rumblings. Hopefully, it will not result in a scenario similar to the rod licence war.

Fine Gael also ran away from that issue.

Everybody involved must be consulted, including game anglers and commercial fishermen. Fishermen are responsible people. They are the custodians of the sea in the same way farmers are the custodians of the countryside and they will not be found wanting when it comes to conservation of ecosystems and fish stocks.

Fine Gael wants to flag that it supports the marine sector. As Senator Feighan stated, we will appoint a Minister for the marine.

Amendment put.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 27; Níl, 15.

  • Bohan, Eddie.
  • Brady, Cyprian.
  • Brennan, Michael.
  • Cox, Margaret.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • Dardis, John.
  • Feeney, Geraldine.
  • Fitzgerald, Liam.
  • Glynn, Camillus.
  • Kenneally, Brendan.
  • Kett, Tony.
  • Kitt, Michael P.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Lydon, Donal J.
  • MacSharry, Marc.
  • Mansergh, Martin.
  • Minihan, John.
  • Mooney, Paschal C.
  • Moylan, Pat.
  • Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
  • O’Brien, Francis.
  • Ormonde, Ann.
  • Phelan, Kieran.
  • Scanlon, Eamon.
  • Walsh, Jim.
  • White, Mary M.
  • Wilson, Diarmuid.

Níl

  • Bannon, James.
  • Bradford, Paul.
  • Browne, Fergal.
  • Burke, Ulick.
  • Coghlan, Paul.
  • Coonan, Noel.
  • Cummins, Maurice.
  • Feighan, Frank.
  • Finucane, Michael.
  • Hayes, Brian.
  • McCarthy, Michael.
  • McHugh, Joe.
  • Norris, David.
  • Phelan, John.
  • Terry, Sheila.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Minihan and Moylan; Níl, Senators Cummins and McHugh.
Amendment declared carried.
Motion, as amended, put and declared carried.
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