The Order of Business is Nos. 1, 2 and 20, motion 25. No. 1 is a motion which was referred to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights and it has completed its deliberations. It concerns a proposal for a Council framework decision on the European evidence warrant for obtaining objects, documents and data for use in proceedings in criminal matters. It is envisaged that the framework decision, when implemented, will result in quicker, more effective judicial co-operation in criminal matters. This item will be taken without debate. No. 2, the Irish Medicines Board (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2005 — Committee Stage, will be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business until 5 p.m.; and No. 20, motion 25, will be taken from 5 p.m. until 7 p.m.
Order of Business.
I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that after No. 1, we set aside time to discuss the future of the Irish sugar beet industry. As colleagues will be aware, last week in Brussels the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Coughlan, agreed to the reform of the European sugar industry. As a result of the reform package agreed by the Minister, it is now inevitable that the Irish sugar beet industry will cease to exist and that sugar beet will no longer be grown in this country. For the first time since Ireland's entry into the European Union in 1973, a decision taken in Brussels and agreed by the Government at EU level will result in the elimination of a native Irish industry.
At present, almost 4,000 people grow sugar beet in Ireland and their future is written off. The jobs of hundreds of people working at the factory in Mallow will also disappear. Up to 3,000 or 4,000 people work in associated areas, in the haulage industry, in the service industry and as electricians, mechanics, etc. The jobs of all these people will be lost as a result of the decision that was agreed by the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Coughlan. The Minister has made the case that agreed compensation will be paid but the issue now causing the most grave concern to people involved in the sugar beet industry is that farmers will get very little while Greencore will get the bulk of it.
What risk taking. Irish capitalism.
That is not acceptable. Greencore has done well out of the Irish sugar industry since it was privatised some time ago. We must now make the case that whatever compensation is available will be paid to those who invested their money and time down the years in the growing of sugar beet.
Hear, hear.
We are talking about up to 4,000 growers, hundreds of workers at the Mallow plant and thousands of people in associated areas of employment. It is a matter of extreme concern. This decision taken last week in Brussels wipes out a native Irish industry. We need to discuss where we go from here and how we can ensure that the compensation is paid to those people who need it most.
The Cathaoirleach will be aware that my colleague, Senator Norris, has tabled a motion to have the Order of Business extended to an hour. He will also be aware that we previously discussed having a topical hour at this stage. This is one of those times when so many things are happening that Members of the House need to have an opportunity to express themselves. We should look at this matter again.
I support the idea of a debate on the beet industry. I have no doubt I will be defending the Minister for Agriculture and Food, like I have Ray MacSharry, Ivan Yates and Deputy Walsh——
And the farmers.
I will defend the farmers as well. From 1990 to 2000, I listened to people unfairly trying to convince Irish farmers that in some way we could avoid the world beet price. We all knew it was staring us in the face. Every year the rainforests of the Amazon are cleared to the extent of the acreage of Ireland. Two factories producing sugar in the Amazon will wipe out not just the Irish but the European sugar beet industry. That is a fact. Whatever way we are to deal with this issue, it is not a problem to be laid at the door of the Government, the Minister or anybody else. If we want to go back in time, we should never have done a deal on beet in 1973. That was done to protect northern French and Belgian farmers and we got in on the tail end of it.
The points made today by Senator Bradford are correct. I agree that people are affected and are being displaced. The matter needs to be debated. We should be looking at the alternatives. We should examine how we can look after the farmers involved in production and the workers in the factories. That should be the tone of the debate. If we waste another two hours having a go at the Minister, the Department or the previous Minister, the Government side will defend the Minister and this side will have a go at her. We will go back 20 years and get nowhere. It would be a total waste.
Let us talk about the alternatives. Last week I outlined here the need to help farmers get into biofuels and other alternatives. There is a need for them to produce crops that can be used for energy generation, to use the land properly and to get a fair income from it. I will support that approach and stand with them on every one of those issues. Let us keep the debate focused on that.
Connected to this issue and the displacement of people in their jobs through no fault of their own is the Irish Ferries dispute. It was discussed at some length yesterday in the Dáil. This is something which people on all sides would want to be on record. I ask that time be made available, today if possible and I look forward to the Leader's response. The issues have been well rehearsed. I have raised the matter here three or four times previously and I would like an opportunity to explore what are the possibilities and where this can go. This is about trust and confidence as well as people's jobs. This reflects badly on everybody and will undermine the relationship between all parties on the labour spectrum, business and workers, Government and the social partners. It has the capacity to undermine much of what we worked for during the past 20 years and from that point of view, we must debate this issue.
Last week, I raised the fact we did not get a response from the Vatican to the Ferns Report. Following that, I wrote to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and requested him to formally post a copy of the Ferns Report to the Papal Nuncio in Ireland and the Pope in Rome to seek their response. Not only did we not get a response from them on the most serious issue ever of its type, the most appalling development occurred during the past week whereby the church is trying to throw the blame on the fact that some priests may be homosexual. A fortnight ago I stated that until the church begins to recognise, understand and accept homosexual and married priests, it will never solve its problems. We must make our position clear. We must revisit the church's response to the Ferns Report as soon as possible.
In an extraordinary attempt by the worst kind of business practice to reassert its capacity to exploit, which is what the Irish Ferries dispute is about, one of the Government's arguments was that legislation offered to it in the other House could not be introduced because it would be in breach of European obligations.
I have before me amendment No. 63 to the Irish Medicines Board (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2005, with which we will deal later this afternoon. The Minister of State said we would need to get permission from the EU following its passage. I have no problem with that amendment. When it suits us we pass legislation first and then deal with the EU. However, when it comes to Irish workers being displaced by exploited cheap labour from eastern Europe, we cannot do so. That defines the problem. It is not that we cannot do so but that we will not. We urgently need a debate in this House. Many people are sick of the left-wing rhetoric of members of the Government which translates into capitulation every time they get a chance to draw breath. We have seen no action from the Government on this critical issue.
The same type of two-facedness applies on the sugar beet issue. Greencore bought into the sugar industry with its eyes wide open. Nobody in his or her right mind could have imagined the regime as it existed would continue. When Seagate closed in Clonmel and many other companies closed due to world forces, the workers were compensated. Nobody suggested the company must be compensated because the world caught up with them. For some reason, Greencore will be compensated for making a bad business decision. I thought this country was about risk taking and that was the reason we gave some adulation to all of these wonderful people. I cannot see any risk taking by the company directors of Irish Ferries or Greencore. Neither can I see any risk taking by the chief executives of banks whose companies were ripped off and who paid no price personally for it. All I can see is farmers and workers in County Cork and the rest of the country being exploited. Those already rich and powerful will end up richer and more powerful. As long as we allow that to happen, they will continue to treat people as they do.
To follow on and touch on some of the issues raised by other Members and in light of the Irish Ferries dispute and how it will affect every worker and employer in the country, I call for a general debate on the concept of work, decency and fair play. Should our society be dictated by the mighty euro or should we examine our quality of life and the way Ireland will develop in future? I ask the Leader for a wider debate than what is suggested here. The state of the beet industry and the Irish Ferries dispute call for a wider debate to discuss points raised last week, including education. The future of Ireland must be examined in terms of how we work and the conditions of work. I ask the Leader to consider holding such a debate in the new year.
Many Senators have indicated they wish to contribute so I ask them to be brief.
Extend the time.
I second the proposed amendment to the Order of Business tabled by Senator Bradford. There is a crisis not only in the sugar industry but in agriculture. The farming community has suffered dreadful pain through CAP reforms. Sugar proposals that devastated Tuam, Thurles and Carlow now put the Mallow plant under threat. I have called for this debate over the past two weeks and I am disappointed it has not taken place. Perhaps the Leader will accede to the amendment today.
Compensation for beet growers should be directed towards the farmers rather than "Greedcore", as the farming community has described it. The company must shoulder the blame and responsibility for poor decisions that have caused this crisis.
Pig farmers' difficulties with the nitrates directive must also be addressed. Every bacon factory and every worker in those factories is threatened if this problem is not addressed. Poultry farmers are also having difficulty. We must grasp this issue and have a debate on it. We must stand firm against the Mandelson foxes, who want cuts in agricultural subsidies to liberalise trade in industrial goods. Sugar beet is of vital interest to the country and we should not be penalised by decisions of the British who only want cheap food. Mandelson has been supported and complimented by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, on his role in securing agreement on world trade.
The Acting Leader of the Opposition called for a debate immediately after the Order of Business. I think it important to have the debate and that the Minister for Agriculture and Food attends. Confusion exists about the sugar deal done last week. I concur with previous speakers on Greencore receiving compensation but it is important the Minister attends our debate.
Senators O'Toole and Ryan referred to the role of Greencore but Senator Ryan, a Cork Senator, will also recall Irish Shipping, Ford and Dunlop. The list is endless.
Senator Callanan should tell that to the sugar beet growers.
Ireland was then an impoverished country, ruined by Fianna Fáil. It was a long time ago.
The Opposition would do well to recall these issues, which I will repeat. In the case of Irish Shipping, workers were stranded abroad and had to find their way home. I remind the Opposition of Ford and Dunlop.
Senator Callanan reminds me of a flat tyre.
I do not know what is wrong with the Opposition but I commend the Minister on the payments that are being prepared, as referred to by Senator McHugh.
Is Senator Callanan seeking a debate?
I ask the Leader to convey the congratulations of this House to the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Coughlan, on the prompt payment of the moneys.
Having listened to Senator Callanan I am reminded of his near neighbour, Ms Alice Taylor, and her famous book, To School Through the Fields, because the Senator has just taken us on a trip down memory lane.
Irish Ferries has been to the fore in the public mind recently but an edition of "Prime Time" this week featured a man from one of the new EU member states who was working on a building site in the docklands area of Dublin. He was being paid €400 per week, while his Irish counterpart was being paid €600. Therefore, while Irish Ferries is the focus of attention at the moment, many people are being exploited throughout the country.
In that context, it is lamentable that there are fewer inspectors from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment dealing with this issue than there are dog wardens. When will the inspectorate be beefed up to ensure that employers are behaving responsibly towards their employees? I have asked this question on many occasions. The Taoiseach indicated recently that he hopes the inspectorate will be expanded. This must be made an urgent priority.
I wish to raise a number of issues, the first of which is the need for a debate on the World Trade Organisation discussions which are currently taking place. The beef and beet sectors are within the ambit of those discussions.
I am particularly concerned about the issue of free trade versus fair trade. We have been told that free trade is to the benefit of Third World countries, but the reality can be very different. That issue should be debated in this House. Many of the companies that benefit from free trade are in First World ownership. They own vast tracts of land and the factors of production in the Third World.
In that context, of what real benefit is free trade to the Third World? We know of cases where workers are treated very badly by employers and are at a major disadvantage. We have heard of extreme cases where workers in fields are sprayed from the air with pesticides that affect their health and may affect that of future generations. These issues must be debated before we roll over and agree to any changes in world trade. We must ensure that all trade is fair and free.
With regard to compensation payments for the beet sector, I suggest that any payment to Greencore should not be for the benefit of the few, but of the many, namely, the workers of that company. Our first concern should be the farmers who have depended on the beet crop for many years, who number over 3,000. Our second concern should be the workers and any moneys for Greencore should be ring-fenced for compensation for the workers. Our last concern should be for the company that has enjoyed increased profitability and has built a different business for itself in the UK. The reality is that beet is a very minor part of Greencore's business. It is one of the largest sandwich makers in the world and the majority of its employees are now in the UK, not Ireland.
With regard to calling for changes in the church, I would like to see a situation in the future where this House calls for changes in areas that are within its remit. Members of this House are calling for changes in the church as if it was the State church. The reality is that it is not a State church and making such calls is often futile.
On the issue of the positive options directory of the Crisis Pregnancy Agency, one may say what one wishes, but abortion is not a positive option. The last thing we should allow the Crisis Pregnancy Agency to deal with is abortion as a positive option. It may be an option, and one can twist, divide or subdivide it any way one likes, but it is not positive.
I support my colleague, Senator O'Toole, in his call for a debate on Irish Ferries. Virtually everybody agrees that the buccaneering attitude of Irish Ferries towards its employees and the thuggish way it introduced people to its ships, effectively smuggling security officers onboard, is just not tolerable. The President of Cyprus attended today's meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on European Affairs and indicated that the Cypriot Government is unhappy about the reflagging issue, although it may be compelled to permit Irish Ferries to reflag because of its obligations under international law. However, it was very interesting that the President himself raised the subject and received a round of applause at the meeting.
I have tabled a motion under Standing Order 29 requesting that this matter be discussed today as a matter of national priority and urgency. A similar motion was successful in the other House yesterday so it will be interesting to see the progress of this one.
I ask for a further debate on Iraq. I propose that we follow the example of the British Parliament and ask the Leader to establish a cross-party parliamentary committee to investigate flights through Shannon. The pattern of flights in the UK is the same as in this country and they are concerned that the situation implicates Britain in torture and extraordinary rendition.
Mr. Chris Mullin, a former junior Minister at Westminster, expressed his concern on television last night. The aeroplane that lands at Shannon was in the background of the shot throughout the programme, detectable by its registration number. We know the nature of the torture, namely, they drown detainees and revive them and use electric drills on them. What does President Bush have to do before the Taoiseach acts or says "Boo" to the Americans? Does he have to establish extermination camps in Shannon?
Upset the Roman Catholic Church?
Is Senator Norris asking for a debate?
I ask for a debate and ask the Leader to establish a cross-party committee, as they have in the British House of Commons because of concerns that their people are implicated in this filth. That aeroplane is a pariah and should not be permitted in Irish airspace.
I support Senator O'Toole and am grateful to him for raising the subject of gay priests and the Vatican. It must be viewed in the context of our own responsibilities. We permitted the churches to get away with an exemption from the operation of equality law. They have shown themselves to be unfit. If we are responsible to the citizens of this country, including gay citizens, we must re-examine that exemption. A moving article in today's edition of the Irish Independent told how a lovely young man in Donegal killed himself because of this situation. His sister, to whom I pay tribute, gave interviews on radio and in the press in which she laid the responsibility at our door because there is no educational programme in this area.
Is the Senator supporting the call for a debate?
I support the call for a debate because it affects the lives and survival of people in this country. I ask the Leader to seek a re-examination and possible amendments to equality legislation to prevent a church that has behaved so viciously toward gay people from outlawing decent people, putting them out of their jobs and, sometimes, their homes simply because they support a gay lifestyle. What does that mean? I saw an article in the Irish Independent——
We are not having the debate now, Senator Norris.
——where the Pope is described as using Italian fashion, handmade wristwatches and a very attractive male secretary. Does that mean the Pope supports a gay lifestyle? Perhaps he will comment on it.
It would be helpful to have a regular debate on Northern Ireland to discuss items of immediate concern. One such matter is the arrest yesterday of a high-profile republican in the North. As with many previous cases it seems to be as much about politics as about the pursuit of justice.
The man in question is a member of the Northern Ireland Assembly and comes from a high-profile sporting family, which is involved in the cultural and artistic life of the community. In pursuing people like Francie Brolly, we need to make sure we do not undo the progress we have made. This man should be allowed to return to his family and community because in recent years he has promoted good community relations and interaction across the traditions in Northern Ireland. He has been at the coalface of that work for a long time. The theatricals we saw yesterday in Northern Ireland do not help the peace process.
I support fully everything Senator Bradford said about the sugar beet industry and look forward to the Leader's response in the matter. On the so-called issue of on-the-runs, of which we have heard much recently, will the Leader enlighten the House as to the Government's rationale — I accept there is an agreement on the matter — behind its decision to grant a presidential pardon rather than allowing these people to be freed on licence?
The surplus to requirements voting machines were raised in the other House yesterday. They cost approximately €60 million to store. While the Minister appeared to indicate to the contrary, I understood the commission found that they did not meet the requirements in regard to accountability and the standards required by the voting public. I would like the Leader to reply to the matter.
I support what was said about the sugar beet industry, particularly what was said about farmers and workers. I know from my own constituency what the closure of the Tuam sugar factory in the early 1980s meant for the people employed in the factory and for those involved in the haulage of beet to the factory. I would like to have the matter discussed. Farmers who have invested in machinery are now in a particularly difficult situation. I hope the €145 million will go to these farmers rather than to Greencore. We should press hard in this House for farmers to get the compensation.
On Senator O'Toole's point on the Vatican's statement on seminarians, I welcome the fact that a statement was made because we do not have too many statements from the Vatican. I hope the Vatican will issue other statements on married priests, female priests and so on. I was very interested to hear the Archbishop of Armagh, Dr. Seán Brady, say this morning that guidelines on child protection would be published before Christmas, which I welcome.
I support Senator Bradford's call for an amendment to the Order of Business. It is important to have the Minister for Agriculture and Food here because, since we joined the EU, no agriculture Minister representing Ireland has presided over the demise of an Irish agricultural industry. This is the oldest Irish industrial process relating to agriculture. As Senator Kitt said, we know what happened in Tuam. We are also aware of what happened in Thurles, Carlow and now Mallow. Not only will this closure affect the sugar beet industry, it will have far wider repercussions on every strand of the Irish agricultural industry, including crop rotation and so on. It will change completely agriculture in this country.
Is the Senator supporting the call for a debate?
I am. Will the Leader reconcile the current attitude of the Government to the Irish Ferries workers with its total opposition last year, with three other countries, to a European directive which would have guaranteed ferry workers proper conditions and pay as Europeans?
Senators
Hear, hear.
That was before the Taoiseach rediscovered his socialism.
Indeed. Last week and the week before, he said he was helpless. He was criticised by his own members for his stance on the matter and now the Government is changing course. However, the sad reality is that it opposed the conditions Irish workers could have today if the directive was implemented.
Is the Senator supporting a debate on the matter?
It is important that the Leader ask whoever was responsible and represented the Government during these discussions to declare why that stance was taken on that occasion.
On Ireland's relationship with the European Union, does the Leader feel that the Minister for Agriculture and Food should come in on a separate issue, namely, the nitrates directive? The Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party last night debated this robustly and at length. While it is an environmental issue, it has afforded an opportunity to many of us on this side of the House to put forward a view that we now face the demise of yet another agricultural industry.
Since I have been a Member of this House I have met many organisations and individuals from rural areas and this most recent controversy is unlike any I have experienced before. Pig and poultry producers face ruin and their families face unemployment and destitution as a result of an EU directive that does not take account of the unique nature of Irish grassland.
In that context, while I accept that the directive will soon be implemented, and there is nothing much we can do about it, I compliment the Minister for Agriculture and Food on the proposal she put to the party meeting yesterday, which will address as far as possible the issues surrounding the directive in terms of anti-pollution measures.
Is the Senator seeking a debate?
No, I am asking for the Minister for Agriculture and Food to be invited here to clarify those proposals and provide information that may be of some reassurance to pig and poultry producers who have approached many of us on all sides of the House.
I support my colleague, Senator Bradford, on the amendment to the Order of Business. This Government has savaged the wheat, dairy and grain industries and, as Senator Mooney says, it is about to savage the pig and poultry industries by its handling of the nitrates directive. It is dismantling the beef industry as we speak and the Minister has lost the confidence and trust of Irish farmers.
Not on this issue.
In my clinic at the weekend, farmers were asking what the Government would do next to the agricultural sector.
The Minister has been absolutely superb on this issue. The directive has been in place for 12 years, including three years under the rainbow coalition, so the blame can be equally shared.
Is the Senator supporting the call for debate?
This Government has shamefully neglected farmers for the past eight years.
That is not relevant to the Order of Business.
It is relevant to the amendment to the Order of Business.
Senator Coghlan raised the issue of the e-voting machines. I hear that they will make up the first consignment of Government waste for the new incinerators.
When will we debate the report of the Barr tribunal that investigated the circumstances surrounding the death of Mr. John Carthy in Abbeylara, County Longford? The tribunal was established in 2003 and concluded earlier this year. We were promised that the report would be presented to both Houses of the Oireachtas by 1 November. Will the Leader indicate if we will have this report before Christmas? People are asking about this in my clinics.
The Senator has been busy with his clinics.
This is a serious issue that also affects the Leader's constituency and we should deliberate on it before Christmas.
I support calls for a debate on the sugar industry. In October 2004, when the Minister had just been appointed, she was warned in this House about the dangers facing the sugar beet industry. We tabled a Private Members' motion in January and she paid it no heed. She was told three days before the closure of the factory in Carlow what would happen but the Department did nothing to prevent its closure, an action that would have strengthened her hand in the negotiations.
Japan imports 7% of its rice and the Government imposes strict limits on the amount of rice that can be imported. Most of the imported rice is put in storage and does not make it to the market. Korea imports 4% of its rice while in America 25,000 cotton farmers are in receipt of $3 billion a year in subsidies from the US Government. There is no point, therefore, in a country rolling over and allowing the WTO to oversee the complete demise of an industry, which returned a profit of €10 million last year. It is outrageous and the moral implications are disgraceful.
Is the Senator seeking a debate?
Warlords in South America are clearing rainforests and abusing workers, who will not gain anything. Greencore has walked off the pitch in Ireland, taken the football and locked the gate ensuring nobody else can play. It is a disgrace. An urgent debate on this issue is needed. I do not have confidence in the Minister on this issue. She has been an unmitigated disaster since she took up office.
I thank the Leader and Senator Callanan for their timely intervention on the single farm payment issue, which I raised last week. They used their good offices to influence the Minister for Agriculture and Food to ensure cheques were paid on time.
Inishowen is sometimes mentioned in the negative because of road tragedies and job losses, of which there have been 4,000 in the past six years. These are major stories but a major positive in the area is a company called Forward Emphasis, which is based at Malin Head, north Inishowen. The company employs 120 people at a call centre. Yesterday, its management expressed grave concerns and stated the provision of broadband will determine whether the company can survive. It made a strong plea for the provision of an adequate broadband infrastructure in north Inishowen.
I am seeking a more equitable strategy in the provision of broadband technology so that Inishowen will be covered. Broadband is provided haphazardly in County Donegal but we should try to retain companies in north Inishowen which are trying to survive in spite of a lack of telecommunications and transport services. For example, no road in Inishowen was mentioned in Transport 21, which is an aspirational plan. Inishowen has a population of 40,000 and it has suffered significant job losses. The region is trying to overcome inadequate services. I seek a debate on the lack of telecommunications and transport provision in peripheral areas.
Senator Bradford, the Acting Leader of the Opposition, moved an amendment to the Order of Business calling on the Minister for Agriculture and Food to come to the House to explain the deal done in Brussels. The House will debate the WTO negotiations next week, which essentially deals with the same issue. However, the Senator is fully entitled to move an amendment. He represents a town that will be devastated by what has happened and I acknowledge the sincerity of his contribution.
Senator O'Toole stated two factories in the Amazon basin could wipe out our sugar industry. He also said the 1973 sugar deal was wrong and laid the groundwork for the recent deal. Farmers need to get into other industries such as biofuels and so on. The Senator also dwelled on the Irish Ferries issue and sought a debate later, if possible. He referred to trust and confidence in the partnership model and in employers versus employees. The Irish Ferries issue strikes at the heart of what kind of people we are. Outsourcing work and replacing 500 workers with another 500 is extraordinary.
As Senator Ryan mentioned, some of the comments, particularly on a television programme on Monday night, from people who should know better were horrific. Senator O'Toole said there has been no response to the Ferns Report and that the church is throwing blame on sections of the population.
Senator Ryan referred to the Irish Ferries dispute and asked why Ireland and three other countries voted against a directive that would have solved the matter. We are told by members of the Opposition in both Houses that the directive would have had this effect, but I do not know. Nonetheless we should debate the matter here as soon as possible. Senator Ryan also spoke about risk taking, not by management but by workers, in any industry that goes to the wall. Senator Ormonde wants a wider debate and that is fair enough.
Senator Coonan seconded Senator Bradford's proposal and, referring to the beet growers, called Greencore "Greedcore", which I thought was smart. Those two issues coming together have brought great despair on many sections of the population. Senator Callanan would like the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Coughlan, to attend the House for the debate and commends her for the package she negotiated.
Senator Finucane also referred to the Irish Ferries dispute and called for the expansion of the labour inspectorate, which for some time he has been told will happen. Senator Hanafin referred to the WTO. We hope to have a debate on it next week. The Senator said trade should be fair and free and that farmers should get the money under the beet compensation agreement rather than the company.
Senator Hanafin also referred to the Ferns Report and said the church is not a State instrument and we do not have the right to call for changes in it. We have the right to debate the church but it appears that no heed is being paid.
On a point of clarification, that is not what I said.
Senator Hanafin said it was not a State church.
It had no relation to the Ferns Report. There were two separate sections. I ask that the Leader quote me correctly.
The Senator said it is not a State church, which is true.
Correct.
We understand that.
The Government passed a law giving the church certain rights, which it is now abusing. That is why it is our business.
A Senator
That is not true.
It is true.
The Leader without interruption.
It is true.
The church is above the law. It does not have to obey equality legislation.
We had a debate on that here and many Members had different views from those of Senator Norris.
That does not alter the truth and the facts.
Senator Hanafin also mentioned the Crisis Pregnancy Agency.
Senator Norris referred to the Irish Ferries dispute and said he would call for an emergency debate on the matter under Standing Order 29. He also called for an ongoing debate on Iraq, with which I agree, and suggested the establishment of a cross-party committee in this House to examine what he described as the "torture flights". Every day more evidence on that issue emerges. I picked it up on a Channel 4 television programme last week. Senator Norris also spoke on the need for us to amend the equality legislation to bring all churches under its remit.
Senator Ó Murchú asked for an ongoing debate on Northern Ireland and referred to the young Irish man prominent in Irish culture in the North who was arrested. Senator Coghlan referred to the issue of on-the-runs. We are governed by the Attorney General in this regard. I queried this in the Taoiseach's office and the advice of the Attorney General is that the matter should be dealt with by presidential pardon
We should not be governed by the Attorney General to the extent that we blindly accept his advice.
The Attorney General serves the Government and it would be an odd Government that was not guided by his advice. The Senator asked about the e-voting machines. As I understand it, the commission did not issue a final report on e-voting. That has yet to come.
When will we get it?
I do not know. A Member of this House, a person of integrity, is on that commission and we could ask him.
I have no doubt about that.
Senator Kitt mentioned the sugar beet industry and suggested that the €145 million provided should go to the workers. He is glad that Archbishop Brady has said the guidelines on child protection will issue before Christmas.
Senator Ulick Burke called for the Minister for Agriculture and Food to attend for a debate on the sugar beet industry. There is no point in having a debate without the Minister. He mentioned what happened in Tuam, Thurles, Carlow and now Mallow and asked why the European directive was voted down. Ireland and three other countries opposed it. I hope to have a proper line on that issue tomorrow.
Senator Mooney called for the Minister for Agriculture and Food to come to the House to clarify the nitrates directive. I agree with him that Fianna Fáil had a thorough debate on it yesterday, to which many of us contributed. We know the directive is supportive of the environment. The Minister for Agriculture and Food is putting forward ameliorative measures which will help farmers.
Senator Bannon is very busy if all the issues he mentioned arose in his clinics. I do not agree that the Minister for Agriculture and Food has lost the confidence of Irish farmers. She has not, but is very much in their confidence.
She never had it in the first place.
Senator Bannon wants to know when we can have a debate on the report of the Barr tribunal. I will inquire whether the report is available and when we can debate it.
Senator Browne contributed to the debate on the sugar industry in January and says that the warlords in South America will do well out of it all.
A good answer.
Senator McHugh said he would be positive and optimistic, but changed as he went on. He spoke about the broadband cry for help issued by Forward Emphasis, a company in Inishowen employing 120 people. He pointed out that Transport 21 did not include one road for the Inishowen area. Has the Senator checked with Donegal County Council? I am sure it will do many of the roads in its road map for the coming year.
Senator Bradford has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That statements on the Irish sugar beet industry be taken after No. 1." Is the amendment being pressed?
Yes.
Tá
- Bannon, James.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Browne, Fergal.
- Burke, Ulick.
- Coghlan, Paul.
- Coonan, Noel.
- Finucane, Michael.
- Hayes, Brian.
- McCarthy, Michael.
- McHugh, Joe.
- Norris, David.
- O’Meara, Kathleen.
- O’Toole, Joe.
- Ross, Shane.
- Ryan, Brendan.
Níl
- Brady, Cyprian.
- Brennan, Michael.
- Callanan, Peter.
- Cox, Margaret.
- Daly, Brendan.
- Dardis, John.
- Dooley, Timmy.
- Fitzgerald, Liam.
- Hanafin, John.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Lydon, Donal J.
- MacSharry, Marc.
- Mansergh, Martin.
- Minihan, John.
- Mooney, Paschal C.
- Moylan, Pat.
- Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
- O’Brien, Francis.
- O’Rourke, Mary.
- Ormonde, Ann.
- Phelan, Kieran.
- Quinn, Feargal.
- Scanlon, Eamon.
- Walsh, Jim.
- Walsh, Kate.
- Wilson, Diarmuid.