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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 23 Feb 2006

Vol. 182 No. 20

Order of Business.

The Order of Business is Nos. 1 to 4, inclusive. No. 1 is a referral motion whereby the subject matter of motion No. 15 on today's Order Paper is being referred to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights for consideration. The proposal relates to the accession of the European Community to the Hague Conference on Private International Law. At present, the Community enjoys observer status in the organisation and the formalisation of the relationship between the Community and the conference is seen as being desirable. This motion will be taken without debate. No. 2 is a referral motion whereby the subject matter of motions Nos. 17, 18 and 19 on today's Order Paper are being referred to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights for consideration. Motion No. 17 concerns a proposed regulation to transform the current Rome Convention, which is an intergovernmental agreement, into a Community instrument and to modernise certain aspects of it. Motion No. 18 concerns a proposal which seeks to enable a maintenance creditor to obtain easily, quickly and generally free of charge an order capable of circulation and enforcement without obstacles in the European Union area of justice, enabling regular payments of the amount due. Motion No. 19 relates to the proposed Council decision annexed to the communication 2005/648 proposal that measures relating to maintenance matters be adopted by co-decision of Council and European Parliament instead of by Council in consultation with the Parliament. This item will be taken without debate. No. 3 is the Teaching Council (Amendment) Bill 2006 — all Stages to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude not later than 1 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons on Second Stage not to exceed ten minutes, those of other Senators not to exceed six minutes and the Minister to reply not later than five minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage. No. 5 is the Irish Medicines Board (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2005 — Report and Final Stages to be taken at 1 p.m. and to conclude not later than 1.30 p.m.

Members will be aware that at the last election to the European Parliament my party colleague, Senator Jim Higgins, gave a commitment to the voters in his constituency that if he was elected to the European Parliament, he would resign his seat in the House and attempt to offer it to a representative of the emigrant community. The issue was raised in the Dáil last week by my party leader and the Taoiseach said that the matter should be worked out among the group leaders in the Seanad. Will the Leader give a guarantee that, if Senator Higgins were to resign his seat and thereby cause a casual vacancy, Fianna Fáil would not contest that vacancy to ensure that the seat would be given to a representative of the emigrant community? Given that the Government parties could decide to put one their members into the seat, this result could only be achieved with cross-party agreement.

Senator Higgins wants to resign from the House and ensure that his replacement is somebody from the emigrant community. He is sincere about this and we should be equally sincere to the many people throughout this country who believe it is right and proper that an emigrant's voice be heard in this House. This is an opportunity to do that for the next 12 to 14 months or whatever time remains between now and the next general election. I ask my colleagues to consider this issue seriously and to offer this opportunity. The Taoiseach has said that he wants the group leaders in the House to resolve the matter. That can be done if all the political parties will agree, in effect, not to take this seat if a by-election is caused. This is a way forward and I ask Members to expedite the matter as soon as possible.

I support Senator Hayes. Fine Gael has had a strong and solid record on this issue for some time. In 1987 and 1988 former Deputy Jim Mitchell and myself were the only two Members of the Oireachtas pushing for representation for emigrants in the Houses.

No, they were not the only ones.

This was long before Senator Norris got around to thinking about it. He was looking at the wider world.

Not a bit of it.

I appeal to Senators not to interrupt. The House deserves better.

However, I warn Senator Hayes that when I spoke at that time to a number of groups in London, one avid and enthusiastic young journalist took every possible occasion to oppose me. As he is now, 18 or 19 years later, Senator Hayes's constituency colleague and the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, I hope his position has changed in the meantime.

There is a significant issue in this regard. People have gone on the record. Senator Higgins made his point clear, as did the Taoiseach. I would like this to happen. I would like to have some method of moving forward so that somebody can represent the emigrant view in the House for a year and a half, which would be in line with the issues we have discussed with regard to Seanad reform. It would be a good dry run for that. I ask that it be supported.

On a similar issue, Members may not have noticed that the final item on today's Order Paper is a proposal for a Council regulation to encourage silkworm rearing, together with an explanatory note. I draw attention to this nugget for the following reason. The Whips of each House have been asked to consider how e-Government might work at parliamentary and Chamber level. I do not know if Members have recently tried to get access to the papers listed daily on the Order Paper. Whereas older statutory papers are easily found, usually on the Attorney General's website, it is difficult to get access to the current papers, which are placed in the Oireachtas Library in hard copy. It is an example of information that could be available electronically for Members to access.

For a number of years we have dealt with the issue of the mutual recognition of qualifications in European countries. The Medical Council is experiencing extraordinary difficulty with regard to doctors who are struck off the register and not allowed to practice in other jurisdictions but who must be accepted and recognised by the Medical Council if they come to Ireland. That seems to turn the whole idea of the mutual recognition of qualifications on its head. At a time when foreign teachers, pharmacists and veterinary practitioners cannot be recognised here due to qualification problems, the idea that a doctor from another European jurisdiction who had been struck off cannot be rejected by the Medical Council is appalling, in particular given that the Medical Council is doing all it can to expand its role as a supervisory authority of the medical profession in terms of visiting GPs and so on. We should discuss this issue, show support for the Medical Council and ask the Minister to introduce the appropriate legislation.

I support my colleagues with regard to emigrant representation. However, I am no longer sure that a meeting of the group leaders will work because one never knows what the Fianna Fáil backbenchers might do. We will need more than to have the Leader tell us she is in agreement because the backbenchers have decided they will assert themselves. Obviously, giving away a seat may not appeal to them. It might be deemed by the Clare county councillors as a hostile act. We will have to wait to see about this matter.

We have regular requests in the House for debates on issues. One issue which is becoming widespread and perhaps should be debated is amnesia. The Government has forgotten it promised that Cork Airport would be debt free and is pretending it never quite said that.

Deputy Rabbitte forgot whether he got €2,000 or €3,000.

The Government made an unequivocal commitment in this House and in other places that Cork Airport would be debt free. It is now talking about lumbering it with a debt which in order to be paid off in a reasonable period would impose extra charges of approximately €10 per passenger at the airport. This is a decision over which the present board had no say but it is now being lumbered with a debt over which it has no control. If the Government does this, the directors will have no option but to resign because they would otherwise be guilty of reckless trading. It is sleight of hand to force the privatisation of Cork Airport. It is dishonourable and characterised by amnesia.

I will not refer much to other recent incidences of amnesia. We know what they are. However, there seems to be an epidemic of it in the country.

Tell us about Pat's amnesia.

I refer to a hair-raising interview given by Judge Mary Martin today on "Morning Ireland", in which she said she was now afraid to drive on the main roads of Ireland, first, because of the trucks——

That person is independent of this House.

She will not have to defend herself from what I have to say because I intend to sing her praises. I accept I should not have mentioned the person's name.

A judge of the District Court said she was afraid to drive on our main roads. What astonished me was that she said the gardaí in Portlaoise, who used to be on traffic duty, have been taken off that duty to work in the prison.

She did not say that.

I am sorry to have to refer repeatedly to our road safety record. However, the truth is that we are not in a position to enforce the law. I do not care who misrepresents me in this regard. All the talk about the need for people to take responsibility, which is correct, will be no more than meaningless hot air if we do not enforce the law. When I hear a District Court judge say she is afraid to drive on our main roads, it is time for us all to wake up and realise there is a national crisis in this regard.

"Morning Ireland" is flooded with e-mails every morning it deals with the issue of road safety. It appears to the public that in the grand plan of events, the high-minded Members of the Oireachtas have other issues and are not concerned about an issue that affects every family in the country.

I am glad to inform Senator Ryan that there has been a new——

The Senator should inform the Chair. He should also keep to the Order of Business.

I am happy for the Cathoirleach to pass on the Senator's message.

The Merlin Park accord between the Labour Party, Fianna Fáil and the PDs has taken place. It is an update of the Mullingar accord.

That is out of order. We have heard enough of that.

The Senator should keep to the Order of Business.

Has the Senator joined the NUJ?

I call on the Leader to arrange an early debate on the proposal by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, for the establishment of a Garda reserve force. The legislation went through this House but it was enabling legislation. A commitment was given that the details of the regulations would be put before the House for debate. The proposal is to create 4,000 reserve members.

I compliment the Minister on the increase in the strength of the Garda Síochána to 14,000 during the lifetime of the Government. Some 2,000 extra gardaí will be appointed before 2007.

How many members has the Garda Síochána?

Allow Senator Leyden to speak without interruption. Senator Leyden need not elaborate.

I fail to understand——

Here is the big "but".

—— how a reserve garda can be put on the beat after just three weeks of training compared with two years for the standard garda.

That is scaremongering.

The Senator should read the proposals. He does not know what he is talking about.

I have read the proposals.

The Senator does not know what he is talking about.

Order, please. These will be points for the debate. Senator Leyden has made his point.

It seems the new accord is like the old accord, but we will proceed in any case.

The Senator got that right. We will proceed with the Garda reserve force.

Would the Government side like to take a break on this issue?

I hope Senator Minihan can restrain himself during the debate. This is not the debate. I am requesting a debate, with the Minister coming before the House.

We had it yesterday.

I would like to have more details of the Garda reserve force which was proposed without the support of the Garda Representative Association or the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors.

Senator Leyden has made a valid point and I rise to support him. We should have a discussion as there has been much confusion on the issue. Yesterday, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform brought some clarity to the matter when we all received a document clarifying what the Garda reserve force would consist of and the total number of hours to be worked, etc.

It is interesting that approximately 1,000 members from the Garda associations met last weekend in Sligo, and they appeared to be opposed to the idea. If we have a discussion on it in this House, the Minister should, correctly, have a discussion with Garda associations and clarify what is happening. There is merit in the Minister's proposal and in us having a discussion in this House, hearing the Minister's intentions from his own mouth. He would listen to us about the concerns which people have articulated to us. If we have these discussions, the Garda reserve force could make a meaningful contribution to this country, as the special constabulary force does in London.

As it does in the North.

Senator Leyden is correct in contending that it is time to clarify the matter fully. The Minister, in all fairness, has gone some way in doing this. The issue has the support of Commissioner Conroy, and it seemingly has the support of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Somewhere along the way the message of what the issue is has failed to be completely communicated with the Garda forces themselves.

That is because of overtime issues.

I would welcome a debate on that issue. The Garda reserve force and other aspects of the comprehensive Garda Síochána Bill 2004 were constructively debated in this House over a long period.

That is correct.

It is very important that we reach a point where the Garda representative associations do not see themselves in conflict with Government policy.

Hear, hear.

That would be a serious matter for our democracy. Some of the megaphone diplomacy on the issue has been unwise. A debate in this House could be helpful.

With regard to the various calls for a debate on road traffic and speed limits, I would like a debate specifically on the appropriateness of current speed limits. On Wednesday of last week at a meeting of the Joint Committee on Transport, I stated that when I travel to Leinster House, I am more likely to see a Garda presence checking for speeding offences in a 60 km/h zone of dual carriageway at Kilmacanogue. That does nothing for the public accepting, supporting and adhering to speed limits.

Hear, hear.

That is the climate we wish to create. We are all aware of places where speed limits, particularly of 60 km/h, have been put in specifically to assist the granting of planning permissions. That matter should be considered. Unless we get the public's respect, legislation and regulations brought in are unlikely to be adhered to.

We receive many reports but a very good document was received recently on research and development. It shows that while we have an increasing investment in research and development in this country, we are significantly behind the average within the EU and that of OECD countries. As the manufacturing industry moves to lower-cost economies, it is essential that we plough investment into this area, so we can break into a higher type of job creation. I ask the Leader to consider a debate on this.

I respectfully disagree with my colleague, Senator Brian Hayes, about the idea of Senator Higgins, MEP, resigning and his seat being made available to a representative of emigrant groups. I campaigned from an early date on this issue. The response I received from emigrant groups was that they would not be satisfied with two seats in the Seanad. It would be good for them to be represented, however. I do not approve of handing over seats, by agreement, without an election.

Hear, hear.

Senator Higgins, MEP, is a fine representative, a man of ability and integrity who performs very well in this House. He has not been here, however. The people he is supposed to represent are left unrepresented. There should be an election.

I ask for a debate on Iraq, which is heading inexorably and tragically towards a sectarian civil war. It is important to debate the matter even if we are stifled about the Shannon Airport issue. I note the Government has responded to the inquiry in Europe, which I have seen. It is full of obfuscation, bluster, irrelevancies and half-truths. As we are not having an investigation here, I will write a gloss on it and send it to the inquiry.

I wish to raise a matter that I hope many Members of the House will be interested in, genetically modified food and experiments that are proposed for County Meath involving a German potato crop. It is of no relevance to Irish agriculture. I ask for a debate on the issue, and I would like the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Coughlan, to be present. I stated at a press conference yesterday that a senior representative of Monsanto was included in the Irish delegation to talks in both Hong Kong and Cancun. This representative was given full accreditation. A representative of The Irish Times telephoned the Department about the matter and was told this was not true. The Cathaoirleach would not allow me to name the person and I will not do so. I have a photograph of her as part of the delegation. She had access as a delegate to areas to which she should not have had access. Her title is the director of government affairs, Europe-Africa, Monsanto Services International. She is based in Belgium and I have a hard copy of the list of delegates.

We will have a debate on the matter.

She was brought in under the cloak of IBEC.

They will be very important points in the debate. We cannot have a debate during the Order of Business.

We must get the truth, not more obfuscation and bluster.

A Senator

Name her.

It is incumbent on newspapers of record such as The Irish Times to probe and not just accept the prevarication of the Department of Agriculture and Food.

Some 12 years ago I was my party's spokesman on emigration and I would support a debate in this House rather than a meeting of party leaders on the question of emigrants. It should not just be a question of representation in this House. As Senator O'Toole knows, the debate began with votes for emigrants, some 12 years ago. We stood on our heads looking for a way to allow emigrants to vote, and considering which emigrants would vote. The matter was abandoned because it was so difficult.

I would like a debate on representation here. The idea of a Senator representing emigrants would be very useful, although I know many Senators feel they represent emigrants in the debates we have had so far. It is more important that we discuss the welfare of emigrants and the work of the Department of Foreign Affairs in assisting those groups.

This is particularly with regard to helping returning emigrants with issues such as housing and other welfare needs.

I join Senator Norris in calling for a debate on Iraq. What is happening there is appalling, and it is heading towards a civil war. There are other issues also with regard to Palestine, and Iran's potential involvement there. Iran has many questions to answer. I would support a debate on Iraq and the Middle East.

I was not here yesterday for the Order of Business but I associate myself with the comments made by my colleague, Senator White, regarding Carlow. I ask for a debate with the Minister for Communications, the Marine and Natural Resources on the matter of directory inquiries and ComReg.

A high percentage of the population have mobile phones but we are forced to go through numbers such as 11850 and 11811 to get mobile numbers. Perhaps it is time for us to have telephone directories listing mobile phone numbers, for those people who want such numbers listed. There are large costs involved currently. It might cost up to €1.30 to telephone a number such as 11850 from a mobile number and even if a person is connected, he or she could pay 21 cent per minute afterwards. This is an example of a rip-off.

Hear, hear.

I urge the Leader to arrange a debate with the Minister for Communications, the Marine and Natural Resources to ask why, when most people have mobile numbers, telephone directories do not list mobile numbers.

Hear, hear.

Why are we forced to go through services such as 11850 and 11811 to access numbers, paying exorbitant rates at the same time?

It would be for people who want their numbers listed.

I rise to support Senator O'Toole in seeking a debate on doctors struck off in other jurisdictions being allowed to practise here. The Medical Council is governed by the Medical Practitioners Act 1978. It is 28 years old and is so antiquated it needs a complete overhaul. As a former member of the Medical Council I have sat on tribunals which have struck doctors off for professional misconduct but its hands are tied over doctors coming in from other jurisdictions. Irish patients have been badly damaged by these doctors——

Well said.

——and will continue to be damaged unless there are amendments or other changes to the legislation.

I also call for a debate on road safety. I am aware that Senator Ryan called for a debate several weeks ago following a report by the NRA on speeds and speed limits.

I support the call of Senator McHugh yesterday for a debate on the survey of young people that was carried out by the National Youth Council. Some of the young people surveyed felt they were the subject of negative attitudes on the part of some sections of society, including politicians and the gardaí, which attitudes the young people reciprocated. The message for politicians is to do more to engage young people in debate and discussion. I do not know if Senator McHugh suggested this but the Leader could invite representatives of the National Youth Council and other youth organisations, who could also meet with representatives before or after the debate.

I also support the comments of Senator O'Toole on doctors who have been struck off outside the State. Many comments have been made in this House on a certain clinic, one of whose doctors had been struck off for malpractice in another jurisdiction and was practising alternative medicine. His wife was also struck off. I am conscious of the need to recognise duly qualified people from other jurisdictions, provided the standards in that jurisdiction are in line with those demanded by the Medical Council. Senator Feeney rightly pointed out that a legislative void needs to be filled by way of an amendment.

On road safety, there is merit in the Government examining the driving standards of people coming from other jurisdictions. I am not saying the standards in Ireland are particularly high because they are not. However, it is important that driving licences held by people from other countries are of a standard acceptable to the Government and State. There is evidence to suggest that is not the case.

It is now clear that scientific advice from Teagasc on nutrients for grasslands, tillage and other crops was not fully reflected in the legislation brought forward in December 2005. That is why there is an impasse. In the meantime the Teagasc authority and the Minister for Agriculture and Food have asked scientists from Teagasc to review the current standing of that advice. Last Monday a document was presented with a series of recommendations, such as increasing phosphorus levels in soil where they are low, which will not have a detrimental effect on water quality. In addition, there are recommendations for nitrogen limits on farms with a low stocking rate, which will not contravene EU water guidelines. Arguments are also advanced for a significant lead-in time for pig, poultry and mushroom farmers.

I call on the Minister for Agriculture and Food and the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to take heed this time and listen to these common sense recommendations because farmers have been up in arms since December and before.

The Senator has elaborated very well.

New technological advancements are also recommended, such as the development of organic manure, for which we must have higher grants for people wishing to invest.

And less slurry.

There are communities, particularly in urban areas, who are devastated by anti-social behaviour. Young married couple wishing to rear their children in a safe, dignified environment cannot do so because of unabated thuggery. Defenceless old people, who should have our protection and deserve our voice, are terrorised in their homes. In their twilight years they are entitled to some contentment. We have debated this issue on several occasions and at the end of each debate we all felt helpless because we knew we needed radical approaches.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has put forward a radical proposal for a Garda reserve force but is met by a turf war among vested interests and the victims are forgotten again. I accept that the Garda voice must be heard but not on the airwaves. It should be heard around the table in a dignified and focused manner because otherwise it does not help the Garda or anybody else. We should give the Minister support or we will continue to debate the issue with a sense of hopelessness and helplessness. I am disappointed with the progress of the debate because the victim should be the priority.

On a blustery summer day last year I saw a yacht run into difficulty a few hundred metres from the shore in Dublin bay. After ten minutes I realised the mast had broken, the yacht had turned upside down and its two members were unable to get it upright again. I telephoned the RNLI and within ten minutes the boat was rescued. I raise this because it was a dramatic incident and I realised the Royal National Lifeboat Institution is a voluntary organisation which does not accept State funding but operates on its own. When it runs short of money it gets it from Britain. As Senator Ó Murchú noted, since the Garda reserve force was proposed some time ago many people have had closed minds to the possibility of an unpaid reserve force working in our community. The Royal National Lifeboat Institution is a good example of such a body and we should not close our minds to such a force helping to solve the problems we have. The proposal represents an effort by the Minister to do something about it. I am sure we will debate it and I ask the Leader to find time to do so in a cool atmosphere. The Minister's concept is worthy of consideration.

There was a reference this morning to the amount of waste paper and litter arising from the free newspapers being distributed in Dublin. We in this House are responsible for a huge amount of waste paper.

Hear, hear.

Every day we receive the Order Papers in a large brown envelope addressed individually to each of the 226 Members of both Houses. It seems that the quantity of envelopes and paper used is very wasteful and I wonder whether we can address this issue. Last year, we were unable to get Oireachtas envelopes during the ferry dispute because it turned out that they are imported, which is understandable in the context of modern Europe. However, it is in our hands to deal with the waste paper we generate.

That is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

I want to add to the comments made by Senators O'Toole and Feeney on the ability of people from other jurisdictions to practise here. The Leader might ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to give us an up-to-date briefing on the issue. I am aware of a person who, despite speaking seven languages and being licensed in another jurisdiction, cannot get a licence to practise here. A useful debate could be held on the way in which the visa system has been reorganised.

With regard to comments made on yesterday's Order of Business, which I missed, there is not a scintilla of evidence to the effect that any prisoners were transferred through Shannon at any time since the beginning of this controversy. The reports made in that regard have largely come from the wild and unfounded allegations made by one or two binocular wielding individuals who crawled around under the bushes in Shannon at all hours of the day and night.

The claims were fully supported by photographic evidence and eye witness testimony. There is no doubt that rendition flights passed through Shannon on return journeys or to refuel.

Senator Daly referred to prisoners, not aeroplanes.

Equivocation.

Senator Norris was incorrect in suggesting we proposed that an election should not be held for the appointment of a successor to Senator Higgins. We proposed that an election be held, with an undertaking from the Government benches that they would not take the seat.

(Interruptions).

May we have more elections of that kind? I want to stand in one.

Senator Norris should resume his seat. He can only speak once on the Order of Business.

The increasing number of unruly incidents in classrooms in Ireland ——

And here.

—— resembles the behaviour of Senators, as the Cathaoirleach is well aware.

What about this classroom?

The increasing disruption and unruly behaviour in classrooms have caused serious problems, not only for teachers but also for diligent students. I hope the Minister for Education and Science will, as a matter of urgency, introduce regulations and protocols to ensure no grey areas exist. The Minister needs to clarify the situation because, at present, school managers, teachers, parents and other partners in education are uncertain as to what can be done within the law to deal with unruly students. Some 47% of teachers who take early retirement do so as a result of stress, while the damage done to pupils within the classroom cannot be quantified. I hope we can hold an early debate on this matter.

I rarely agree with Senator Ulick Burke on educational matters but I concur that bullying is an ongoing issue. However, I was heartened when the Minister recently drew up or expanded a number of initiatives and frontloaded funding to address the issue.

The issue is of serious concern for parents and, in particular, for children whose learning environment is seriously disrupted. Many attempts have been made over the years by teachers and management boards to address this difficult and vexed question, with varying degrees of success.

I heartily support Senator Ó Murchú on the issue of anti-social behaviour in our communities. Everywhere I go in my constituency, I hear comments on anti-social behaviour, whether that involves loitering, drinking, public brawling or other activities which I will not refer to here. Despite the best efforts of the Garda and its ongoing responsiveness to calls from communities and public representatives, the problem is not being solved.

Gardaí find it particularly difficult to address the problem of anti-social behaviour arising on private property but causing serious public disruption. I recently made representations to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on this issue. One of the causes of this problem is that gardaí are somewhat removed from their respective communities but the special reserve force offers a significant opportunity to address that issue. We should hold a debate to tease out the successes of existing programmes and assess the potential of the Minister's proposals to address any failures.

Senator Ulick Burke's suggestion that we should all stand for re-election and that those who oppose us should sign an agreement that they will not take the seat is utterly splendid.

Hear, hear.

We should pass that by acclamation immediately. On a more serious point, while it is difficult to criticise such a good parliamentarian, Senator Higgins ought to resign.

Then the Government would get the seat.

That is preferable to an empty seat. It is wrong that anybody should dictate to whom he or she bequeaths a seat in this House, however worthy the recipient.

He is not suggesting that.

It is wrong for Senator Higgins to say that he will vacate his seat if the emigrants take his place. This was a device used in the European elections by Senator Higgins to appeal for the votes of constituents whose relatives had emigrated. His tactic worked extremely well but, in terms of the status of this House, it is ridiculous for anybody to agree to vacate a seat on the condition that it goes to whomsoever he or she wishes.

He never said that.

We will be giving seats to our sons, daughters, brothers and sisters if that becomes the case.

On a point of clarification, he said he would resign on the basis of the Government agreeing not to take the seat.

The Senator already made his contribution.

Unless Senators Norris and Ross want the Government majority in this House to be enhanced, theirs is a ridiculous proposition.

The Senator's point has been quite adequately made.

It would be preferable for a Member of the Government to have the seat than for nobody to occupy it.

Hear, hear.

I wish to make a further brief remark.

The Senator should be aware that a time motion has been proposed and that I want to accommodate another Senator.

I am concluding on a request I should have made yesterday for a short debate on the Financial Regulator. AIB's profits of €1.7 billion may have been noted in the House yesterday. We can forget about the profit figure and the past scandals, but anyone who watched Tuesday's edition of "Prime Time" knows that AIB is at the same racket in different ways by inducing vulnerable people to take out particular types of insurance on personal loans which they do not understand. We should look not just at the global nature of the profits but how they are made because most people do not know what is happening behind the scenes. The Financial Regulator, which is meant to police the bank, has questions to answer about why it has not spotted many of these things, why it has not brought it to the attention of the public and why this is always left to politicians or the media.

I agree with Senators Ross and Norris about Senator Jim Higgins's seat. If we are going down the road of handing seats to people who feel they are marginalised, I suggest we give it to someone with a disability or from the Traveller community.

Senator Brian Hayes quoted the Taoiseach speaking in the Dáil on Senator Higgins's seat. It is wrong for a person to hold a seat and a salary for almost four years without contributing to the House. We are not allowed to talk about those who are not here but it is wrong.

It has been happening for years in the Dáil with a raft of Fianna Fáil seats.

It has only been for two years.

Since the European elections, sorry. I just cannot understand how a person can draw that salary, it is incredible that one would take that wedge of money and not give anything for it. That is my position on the matter. If a person gets money, he or she should work for it. That is what I was taught. I am giving my opinion. I will ask the Taoiseach what he meant by that comment.

He has probably changed his opinion by now.

The interviewer who spoke to Senator Higgins on the radio asked why he did not donate his money to the Immigrant Council of Ireland. It is his money and he is entitled to do with it what he wants but I cannot comprehend taking a wedge of money without working for it.

He remains a Senator. That is my point. Do we not have an agreement?

The Senator cannot interrupt the Leader when she is replying.

I thank the Cathaoirleach for his protection. I listen carefully to what everyone says but when I open my mouth, it is blah, blah, blah and everyone wants to get up again.

Senator O'Toole is interested in the rearing of silkworms.

I am listening.

We will have to see if he has a little farm out there. He also raised the serious issue of the mutual recognition of qualifications. We do not have mutual recognition of disqualifications, which we should have. A doctor who is struck off in Poland should be struck off here. I have a related point in reply to Senator Feeney.

Senator Ryan agreed with Senator Brian Hayes about emigrants and also asked about Cork Airport's debt-free status. I fully agree with him. I was present for the entire debate on Aer Rianta and there is no doubt that it was not in the legislation. There was an attempt to insert it but the draftsman did not think it was suitable. Strong indications were given, however, that it would not carry a debt.

The then Minister for Transport, Deputy Séamus Brennan, promised it.

When I voiced my reservations about the Bill, many others claimed it was fabulous. Senator Ryan also mentioned that a judge of the District Court said this morning on "Morning Ireland" that the behaviour of truck drivers frightened her and I understand her point of view. There is a national crisis in road safety.

Senator Leyden is keen on the Merlin Park accord. He also called for an early debate on the Garda reserve. I have a note that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has said he is happy to appear before the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, on which there are Members of this House, to discuss the issue. We were all enthusiastic about the Bill in this House. Everyone said they supported it.

Senator Jim Walsh condemned the megaphone diplomacy surrounding the matter, with the article in yesterday's Evening Herald. He also mentioned the disparity in speed limits and called for a debate on research and development.

Senator Norris disagreed with Senator Brian Hayes's proposal on Senator Higgins's seat, saying there should be an elected Member and, as Senator Ross said, better it be a Fianna Fáil Member than no elected Member. Senator Norris also wants a debate on genetically modified foods.

Senator Kitt asked for a debate on the welfare of returning emigrants, particularly in housing, while Senator Browne supported the comments made yesterday about the attacks on the home of the vice-chairman of the Green Party and also asked about directory inquiries for mobile telephone numbers. Many people do not want their mobile telephone numbers included in a directory. It is at a person's discretion.

The same applies to land lines.

Yes, but most people do not want the number of their mobile telephone in a directory.

Senator Feeney mentioned struck-off doctors and asked about the Medical Practitioners Bill. It will be published this year and will replace the Act that established the Irish Medical Council. She also mentioned the issue of speed limits.

Senator Tuffy suggested that young people should come in to listen to a debate on young people and that we should meet them beforehand. That is a good idea.

Senator Glynn stated that we should recognise medical qualifications from outside the State. Mutual recognition would fall within Commissioner McCreevy's services directive. There is also merit in looking at the road safety standards in other jurisdictions.

Senator McHugh raised the advice given by Teagasc on the nitrates directive and wants the two Ministers to come into the House to listen to a debate, particularly on the technological advances that have been made in this area.

Senator Ó Murchú offered his support for the Garda reserve and pointed out that the Bill went through this House. I can remember the debate and Members' enthusiasm for it.

Senator Quinn linked that idea to the RNLI, the members of which do the work for nothing other than a sense of community. The Garda reserve would do the same. It is sad that a feature of the debate is the question of why anyone would work for nothing. Clearly, whoever wants to go on the Garda reserve would do it from a sense of duty to the local community, a praiseworthy attitude. The Senator asked about the envelope we get that contains the business of the House. The Cathaoirleach said it is a matter for the CPP and we will raise it there.

Senator Daly also called for the early introduction of the Medical Practitioners Bill and stated with great certainty that no prisoners are going through Shannon Airport. I do not know about that.

Senator Ulick Burke has been nominated to run for the Dáil. I welcome him to the club and I hope he does well, although not at our expense. He supported Senator Brian Hayes's comments. I agree with the Senator as regards unruly incidents in classrooms and the stress experienced by teachers.

Senator Fitzgerald referred to a number of initiatives the Minister has introduced in the area of bullying. I often think about unruly pupils and stress in the teaching professions and so forth. Young people will continue to behave as they have always done, which includes bad behaviour on occasion.

Senator Ross called for common sense and stated that vacating seats in the House should not be condoned.

Or condemned.

I used the correct word, although it is easy to mix up the words "condone" and "condemn". The Senator called for a debate on the Financial Regulator, particularly on misinformation regarding the type of insurance available to people who do not understand what or why they are taking out insurance policies. I fully agree with him on the issue.

Senator Kett argued that if we are to single out emigrants to be given a seat in the House, people with disabilities should also be singled out. This approach is fraught with difficulty. I will endeavour to ascertain what the Taoiseach meant.

We await progress.

Order of Business agreed to.
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