The Order of Business is Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive. No. 1, a motion referred to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, and on which the committee has completed its deliberations, is primarily a judicial arrangement whereby the judicial authority in a state requested to execute an arrest warrant would recognise a warrant issued by the judicial authority in Norway or Iceland, this item will be taken without debate; No. 2 is a motion regarding the Offences against the State (Amendment) Act 1998, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude in one hour, the contribution of each group not to exceed ten minutes and Senators may share time; and No. 3, Road Traffic Bill — Report and Final Stages, to be taken at 12.20 p.m. and to conclude at 2 p.m.
Order of Business.
The fact that the social partnership talks have concluded successfully is to be welcomed on all sides of the House, although much of the high-wire act of recent weeks could be regarded as contrived and stage managed. It was inevitable that representatives of workers and medium and large business would do a deal because it is in their interests to do so, particularly on pay.
Would the Leader agree that while the objective of the initial social partnership deal was to reduce unemployment and bring stability to the Irish economy, the new challenges we face are different from those we faced in 1997 and 1998? These challenges are about re-engineering public services so that consumers get not just greater efficiency but greater service, and that we deliver on key targets in education, training and our commitments on housing affordability, which is now beyond the sights of many young people. We must debate these matters.
Although we have a difficult few weeks ahead in terms of legislative priorities, a debate in the House on the conclusion of the talks yesterday would be useful. There is an ongoing role for the Oireachtas in monitoring the progress made in that agreement because ten years is a long time. Most Irish people have fallen out of love with social partnership, as they have with Europe. It is no longer as relevant to them as it was in the late 1980s. We all have a responsibility to highlight the importance of it and to show that the new challenges in our economy and society are met during this agreement.
I add my voice to Senator Brian Hayes's call for a debate on this issue and I agree with much of what he has said. We must be careful that we achieve our targets on education. The House will note that the class size of primary schools has deteriorated this year and on that basis we will not meet targets. Senator Brian Hayes will articulate that view and Senator Ulick Burke has mentioned it many times. It is crucially important that we debate it. I will not deal only with the central issues. Why is it relevant? Brussels and Strasbourg were crippled recently on the issue of pensions. Social partnership got a commitment from Government last night that a Green Paper and a White Paper on pensions would issue over the next year. This shows that we are trying to anticipate the difficulty. Paris and all of France closed down six months ago because of labour legislation and problems relating to immigration. Last weekend the talks were delayed due to the need to deal with labour law and the protection of labour rights to ensure that what happened in France does not happen here. It is not by accident that we have the best industrial record in Europe over the past ten years, it is because people locked themselves away for the past six months to try to deal with the issues they anticipated would cause problems along the way. Social housing was also an issue.
A commitment has been made on the minimum wage which brings us up to date with the rest of Europe, a protection of immigrants is part of that and, for the first time in western Europe, social welfare payments will be connected to the average industrial wage, as opposed to the consumer price index and the inflation index. These are some of the reasons this issue affects everyone. It is important that people know what the issues are and how we are trying to anticipate problems that are crippling other European countries. It is crucial that we debate this topic and draw conclusions. We should also congratulate people on all sides who have tried to bring these social partnership talks to a conclusion and wish the farmers well who have not finished their talks and who hope to conclude discussions tomorrow. They are probably under greater pressure than any other group at the moment.
I support Senators Brian Hayes and O'Toole in their calls for discussion of the partnership agreement. I presume we will hear another announcement of 10,000 affordable houses to be built to make up for the fact that the last 10,000 houses announced at the partnership talks were never built.
Exactly.
I want to draw the Leader's attention to a motion that my Labour Party colleagues and I have on the Order Paper seeking:
That Seanad Éireann will establish a petitions committee and initiate procedures for civil engagement with the Seanad through a right of individuals, community groups and organisations to petition the Seanad and make a request to the Seanad to take a view or initiate or amend legislation in relation to matters of public interest or concern.
I urge the Leader to consider this proposal because I know she has great interest in Seanad reform and a key part of this is the issue of engagement with the public. Granting the public the right to petition the Seanad would be an ideal way to achieve this goal. The right to petition parliament is a concept that has existed for centuries and the Scottish Parliament has an e-petitioning system in place which has led to changes in the law in Scotland. Such a move would be particularly suited to the Seanad because we are not directly elected.
Some of us are.
Senator Norris is directly elected by the masses of university graduates.
Yes, 120,000 of them.
Not all from Trinity College, I am afraid.
Some.
People like Senator Norris have brought about changes in legislation and it is this tendency in the Seanad to take a broader view that could allow us to fulfil this role very well. It would provide for civil engagement with the Seanad and the right of public access to this Parliament. I urge the Leader to take this proposal on board. I have previously raised the issue of the need to allow councillors and university graduates to engage with the Seanad and the right to petition would grant this.
I concur with the previous speakers on the conclusion of the partnership talks. I would like a discussion on the area of reform, which might have been included or excluded from those talks. This Government has an ambitious €34 billion transport plan yet the transport system in Dublin shuts down at 11.30 p.m. The Luas, which cost some €900 million, closes at 11.30 p.m., the bus service consists of 1,200 buses and closes at 11.30 p.m. There is a skeleton Nitelink service to the outer suburbs. By 2016 the public transport system should function far later than this. Dublin is a modern European capital that runs on an almost 24 hour basis. Some people may not go home until 4 a.m., some may get up at 5 a.m. and 6 a.m. to go to work.
Not the same people, I hope.
Dublin's public transport system is antiquated and I seek a discussion on the reforms sought between now and 2016 by the various interest groups in the partnership talks. Without the deregulation of the taxi system which has brought 13,000 taxis, rather than 3,000 previously, I wonder what kind of transport system would exist in Dublin at 2 a.m. and 3 a.m. The taxi system was meant to supplement the public transport system at those times, not replace it. I seek a debate on this issue.
On 16 November 2005 Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Tim O'Malley, indicated in this House that the new radiotherapy unit at Mid-Western Regional Hospital, Limerick, cost approximately €8.5 million. The Midwestern Hospital Development Trust and a generous business benefactor in the area provided all the finance for it. This facility dealt with both private and public patients and I asked the Minister of State on that occasion if he could indicate when the HSE would provide finance to the Midwestern Hospital Development Trust for the public patients attending this facility. The Minister of State indicated that he expected the matter to be resolved "speedily", to use his own word. I asked if this would be resolved by January and he answered in the affirmative. All I know is that this matter has not been resolved to date. Would the Leader please find out when this commitment will be honoured?
I join in warmly congratulating the Government and social partners on having practically concluded an agreement with the exception of the farmers who I hope will also come on board. This agreement is important for maintaining confidence in the economy and, as Senator O'Toole has illustrated, the alternative is loss of confidence and industrial and possibly social unrest. I would welcome a debate on the full programme when it is published.
I also endorse Senator Morrissey's request for a debate on aspects of the transport system. I point out, however, that the Luas system is ultra-modern and runs until 12.30 a.m., not 11.30 p.m.
That is a big help.
It was 11.30 p.m. last Saturday night.
I welcome the new agreement, although my feelings are slightly ambiguous. Due to my natural greed, which we all share, I am delighted at the prospect of a 10% pay increase but I am worried that we might price ourselves out of international markets. We must be careful to stay competitive.
Last night there was an interesting debate here on foreign policy issues and the use of Shannon Airport. Many of us will have heard a report from Washington this morning on "Morning Ireland" on the funeral of the 2,499th member of the US military to fall victim to the war in Iraq. He was a young, 25 year old man from Appleton, Minnesota, the heartland of America. As I am sure everyone would like to do, I express my sympathy to their families on the wasted lives of these unfortunate young people. Speaking on behalf of the people of Iraq, who suffer most, I cannot turn my eyes away from the suffering of others. It is said that war is a continuation of foreign policy by other means, and it is, but it is often practised by old men at the expense of the innocent lives and blood of the young.
Thank God for this wonderful weather. I hope it stays for Bloomsday. Young people of both sexes are looking absolutely beautiful in this weather, and it is a joy to be alive in Dublin. I rejoice with them.
The Senator was running away from such young people a few days ago.
There may be a sinister element accompanying this wonderful weather. We heard this morning of a plague of mosquitoes in Drogheda. It may sound amusing——
Not if one was bitten.
There are gnats on North Great George's Street.
——but it indicates a substantial shift in the climate. For that reason I ask for a debate before the House goes into recess on the subject of climate change, global warming, the Kyoto Protocol and an underlying factor of the extraordinary expansion in population numbers. The leaving certificate examination is taking place at this time. Since I did my leaving certificate the population on the planet has doubled. The planet cannot sustain such exponential growth.
Some time ago we had a debate in this House on stem cell research. Will the Leader provide time to revisit this subject? I ask this in light of the fact that Members of the European Parliament are today being asked to sanction experimentation on and destruction of human embryos. I remind the House that human embryos are not potential human beings but human beings with potential. If we go along in any way with this type of endeavour, or approve it, we can never again criticise the Nazis for their experimentation on babies. The only difference is one of age.
Along with Senator Brian Hayes and others, I welcome the successful conclusion of the partnership talks. I may be wrong, but is this the first time that the pay deal element will run for 27 months but the agreement provides for a ten-year framework?
We have been promised a Green Paper, to which Senator O'Toole referred, on defined benefits with regard to pensions. We know this to be a contentious area in which this country is lacking. As Senator Brian Hayes has stated, there is an ongoing role for the Oireachtas. Some serious questions arise from this matter, and I would be grateful if the Leader would spell out the intended involvement of other Departments, not just the Department of the Taoiseach.
That would be a matter for the responsible Minister.
I welcome the agreement and call for a debate.
Is there such a thing as a responsible Minister?
The Departments of Finance, Social and Family Affairs, Enterprise, Trade and Employment, and Environment, Heritage and Local Government will all be involved. They all appear to have roles, or they have acquired roles. As Senator Brian Hayes has mentioned, there is an ongoing role for the Oireachtas in monitoring the issue, and an early debate is called for.
I am sure the Leader is aware of CIE's initiative entitled Art on the Move. It refers to the collection of paintings at CIE's head office at Heuston Station. However, some of the offices in which the paintings were held were removed to allow greater access for the public through the station. Some of this collection is now being shown to people in the regions, which is to be greatly welcomed. The paintings are on show in Kerry at the moment, and I attended the exhibition some days ago. I thought it a pity that more paintings were not on show.
There is still life in Kerry then.
This could be a very important national collection, which could and should be added to by paintings held by the Great Southern Hotels group.
Has the Senator a question?
A number of those paintings were removed to de Vere's, as we know, for whatever purpose, be it storage or valuing.
The Leader knows it.
I have a very important question. Will the Leader bring the appropriate Minister here to discuss the issue? Is it possible to combine the collections, as they could become an even more important national treasure? They should be brought together.
The Senator is correct.
Senator Lydon raised the very important issue of embryonic stem cell research. We have previously had a debate on the matter which was very informed and balanced. The Tánaiste was present on that occasion. There is a growing interest in the subject in Ireland and throughout Europe. More important, an awareness is growing of the nuances involved in the debate itself. In particular, there is the differentiation between embryonic stem cell research and adult stem cell research.
There are no ethical grounds for opposition to adult stem cell research. There is a growing body of evidence to show that the potential coming from the research on adult stem cells is very positive. It holds much potential for the treatment of many ailments. It is vital that we do not go down a road in the unethical manner now being suggested when clear alternatives are available.
I support Senators Lydon and Ó Murchú on the issue of embryonic stem cell research. A vote is taking place in the European Parliament today. The concept underlying the European project is meant to be subsidiarity, where decisions better made closer to the citizens could be made in that way rather than at a centre. It is time for us to once again have a debate on stem cell research because of the exact points raised by Senators Lydon and Ó Murchú. There is a danger that this decision making may be taken away from us in Ireland. It is time for us to debate the issue.
An horrific attack on a young fireman was mentioned some days ago, where a bottle was thrown and the man was seriously injured. I heard this morning on the radio that although gardaí and prison officers have compensation schemes in the event of being attacked or assaulted on duty, firemen do not. I am not sure if that is correct, but there was much discussion on the matter this morning on the radio. I heard the young man involved speaking. If it is correct, we should consider the matter seriously and immediately.
Hear, hear.
Over the past number of years we have on numerous occasions debated the issue of class size at primary level. It is disturbing to read a report in The Irish Times that 5,000 more children are currently being taught in classes of more than 30 than was the case two years ago. This figure came in response to a question tabled by Deputy O’Sullivan. This is despite a commitment given that no child under nine would be in a class of 20 or more in the lifetime of this Government.
The current Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin, dismissed this as a noble aspiration. When she attempted to give reasons the goal has not been realised, she used the idea that local school management decided that greater areas of priority existed and teachers would be moved to areas other than teaching children under nine years of age. More recently, the Minister has aired the idea that as a result of unforeseen expenditure in the area of supporting special needs, such a goal could not be realised.
Our pupil-teacher ratio is the second worst in the EU, with only Britain in a lower position. It is unacceptable that in a time when we have such an abundance of resources, and despite all commitments given, such a goal is now just a noble aspiration. It is unfair to the children involved. Many children are in classes of more than 40, and some are in the Minister's own constituency. Some of the classes are in County Galway. It is unacceptable.
Despite many efforts to alert the Minister to what is happening, she has ignored the issue. She has failed, at Cabinet level, to get the necessary resources to bring about the commitment given when this Government took office. Will the Leader ask the Minister her plans to reverse the worsening situation of the past two years? That it is worsening rather than improving cannot be tolerated.
I also welcome the national partnership agreement and congratulate all involved. However, not everybody is satisfied with the agreement. The Irish farming community seem to have been left out in ways.
The IFA stayed out by its own choice.
It was not of its own choice. Tell that to the farmers of Tipperary.
Perhaps all the large farmers are satisfied, but the smaller farmers are not. We should have a debate on this issue. The way issues such as Greencore and the Irish sugar industry were handled show these people are taken for granted. I might laugh at myself, but I am a small shopkeeper.
The Senator is a big shopkeeper.
Small businesses have been taken for granted. The land, which has been extremely vibrant, has seen an exodus. In the rush to congratulate ourselves, we must take into account that the self-employed farming community are not satisfied. I ask the Leader for a debate on small businesses and the Irish farming community, which need to be recognised as a serious issue.
I also welcome the national partnership agreement in so far as it is concluded. It is not fully concluded yet. I have every confidence in the leadership of the farming community to resolve the outstanding issues in that regard. In dealing with the partnership agreement, will the Leader arrange for the Minister for Finance to give us a briefing on the detail of the agreement?
While these agreements are welcome, some have a long lead-in and delay in implementation. I am particularly concerned with the delay in the implementation of infrastructural and construction projects. Delays in the various stages of implementation of sewerage schemes, minor extensions and development of hospitals cause grave frustration throughout the community. We might find a way for the Minister for Finance to expedite these and cut out the red tape which delays many projects. Substantial funding has been ring-fenced for two, three or four years for some of these projects.
Senator Ulick Burke raised the issue of teachers. While I accept the necessity to hear from the Minister on her plans for future developments, it is fair to state substantial investment has been made in the reduction of class sizes and 5,000 additional teachers have been employed in recent times. That must be acknowledged. We held a meeting with parents and teachers representatives. As part of an INTO campaign, we were presented with a petition of 5,000 names from parents and pupils in Clare, who feel class sizes are too big and remedial measures must be taken. If the Minister for Education and Science came to the House it would provide a useful opportunity to give an outline of the massive improvements she made in recent times and indicate how she proposed to deal with the issues raised by the INTO.
Senator Brian Hayes welcomed the announcement of the fruition of the partnership talks. He spoke about high-wire acts. However, it was never laid out that they would succeed. It was quite difficult and I understand there were quite a lot of hiccoughs in its passage. It certainly was not ordained that it would just happen. It was prolonged and difficult.
The Senator is right to state the challenge today is different to that of 1987, when the PNR, the Programme for National Recovery, was agreed. It is correct to state we faced a hugely perilous financial situation in 1987 after the four and a half years of the previous Government.
And in 1981 and 1977.
It started in 1922.
Real leadership.
"National recovery" are exactly the words I would use.
The Programme for National Recovery was truly such. The Fine Gael Party played its part through the Tallaght strategy of Alan Dukes on which I fully commend him. However, the idea that everything was hunky-dory in 1987——
It would not happen with Fianna Fáil.
The Leader without interruption.
I never challenged. I keep my eyes down when I make my points so I will not engage with people.
I did not state the Leader interrupted.
I try not to be confrontational.
Senator Brian Hayes is correct to state we face different challenges now. It is a ten year framework which will require a great deal of monitoring. The Senator asked for a debate and then an ongoing monitoring role for the Seanad. I fully agree with that.
Senator O'Toole echoed what Senator Hayes stated about partnership. He also raised the fact we will have a Green Paper on pensions, followed by a White Paper and, hopefully, legislation and action. Other European countries have experienced crippling strikes over pensions because they are at a further demographic stage to us. We hope to offset or work ahead of the issue so we are not caught in a pensions timebomb. The Senator also wished the farmers well. The farmers are still in negotiations and have not broken off. They are still within the partnership framework. Hopefully, it will end satisfactorily.
Senator Tuffy raised the matter of the motion to establish a petitions committee, which I read recently when I was waiting in the House. I was extremely interested in it. It is No. 26, motion 20. It is a motion to establish a petitions committee and initiate procedures for civil engagement with the Seanad. It is an excellent motion. I hope Senator Tuffy puts it forward in Private Members' time. I will seek, if I can, that we do not put forward an amendment and that this House will accept it. It is well put together and necessary. Other parliaments have such a petitions committee, including through e-mail. I assume it was Senator Tuffy's idea because her name is first and she is entitled to credit if it is. It is a worthy motion.
I agree with Senator Morrissey's point on the availability of public transport. He commended Bobby Molloy, although not by name, on taxi deregulation. He asked for a debate on how public transport can be accessible after 11.30 p.m. I am glad Senator Mansergh spoke about being on the Luas at 12.30 a.m.
Senator Finucane raised the serious matter of private facilities in the grounds of hospitals. I happened to be in the Chamber when the Minister of State responded to that question. He asked when will the HSE provide finance for public patients to be treated in those facilities. I will endeavour, through the private secretary to the Minister of State, to establish when this commitment, which was given publicly, will be fulfilled. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Malley, is extremely conscientious and I am sure he will endeavour to meet that commitment.
Senator Mansergh is pleased the partnership talks have concluded and hopes the farmers will eventually sort themselves out. Senator Norris also welcomes the agreement. He also condemned the wasted lives in Iraq. He stated how women and men look so well in the fine weather. However, he ran away from the women. We saw him on the front page of The Irish Times. He stated both sexes are lovely in fine weather and that is nice.
Senator Lydon raised the matter of stem cell research. We notice that the clergy made a call from Maynooth to Europe yesterday in which a shot was sent across the bows of the MEPs on this matter.
Senator Coghlan welcomes the partnership agreement but needs to know the responses of the various Departments that feed into it. Every Department would have had a say in what finally emerged. The Senator also referred to the Art on the Move initiative. The CIE art will be exhibited in every railway town, including Athlone, for a two-week period. There have already been moves in this regard.
A Member of the other House asked on "Morning Ireland" where the Great Southern Hotels' paintings have gone. Senator Coghlan, who has such intimate knowledge of those hotels, will know the paintings are absolutely beautiful, particularly those in Parknasilla. He believes the two collections should be brought together for the Art on the Move initiative.
There is an old connection in that CIE owned those hotels.
The collections are wonderful. CIE offered sponsorship through the Arts Council, encouraged new artists and bought their paintings, many of which are now very famous and have accumulated great value over the years.
Senator Ó Murchú pointed out, quite correctly, that there are two types of stem cell research, namely, embryonic and adult, and asked that there be another debate on the matter. We will seek this.
Senator Quinn also called for this debate and stated that firemen do not have a compensation scheme for themselves, which I cannot understand.
Senator Ulick Burke referred to class sizes. It is well documented, as in the parliamentary question, that there are 4,000 extra teachers, most of whom are concerned with special needs. This is fine and we are all very pleased they are concerned with these pupils, including foreign children who need particular care because they must learn a new language even though they may be a little older than is desirable. The Senator wants a debate on class sizes and we will certainly endeavour to have it.
Senator Feighan referred to the partnership process and stated the needs of small farmers and businesses should be accommodated within it. IBEC would have had a special role in advancing the cause of all businesses.
IBEC does not have a role.
It does have a role.
Senator Daly made the sensible suggestion that the Minister for Finance should brief the House on how the conclusions were arrived at and what will constitute the outcome. He would also like a debate on class sizes. I commend the INTO in this regard in that it is engaging in a proper campaign. I hope its representatives will come to Athlone. We did not hear from them yet on the matter but they would be very welcome.
We are all very pleased with the special needs teachers and the Government has made huge strides in this regard. There is no doubt that pupils with special needs are the most vulnerable, including those who need special care and arrangements. The regular children, for want of a better description, or those in the full classes also have certain entitlements and I therefore hope we can arrange for the Minister to debate the matter in the House.