The Order of Business is No. 1, Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2008 — Committee Stage; and No. 26, motion 26 re Irish tourism. It is proposed that No. 1 will be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and will adjourn not later than 5 p.m., if not previously concluded. There will be a sos from 1.30 p.m. to 2.30 p.m. No. 26, motion 26, will be taken at 5 p.m., to conclude not later than 7 p.m.
Order of Business.
I have made the point before that I do not believe the Government protects the vulnerable as it should do. I raised this point in regard to the way the budget cuts especially affected the young and the elderly. I am disturbed that the risk of female genital mutilation is not considered an adequate reason by Irish courts for a family to be allowed to remain in this country. The barbaric idea that two young girls could be subjected to this awful practice and that Ireland would not intervene is not reflecting the will of the vast majority of people in this country, who would want to see Pamela Izevbekhai being allowed to stay in this country with her two children, particularly in view of the fact her eldest daughter has already died as a result of this practice. One can understand her huge anxiety about returning to the country where this happened. Were it not for the intervention of the European Court of Human Rights, she would have been deported yesterday.
I ask the Leader to convey to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform our concern about this case. I hope, irrespective of what the European Court of Human Rights decides, that the Government will take a humanitarian approach to this case given the amount of distress the family have been through already.
In terms of protecting the vulnerable, I want to raise an issue in regard to an art collection in the Irish Museum of Modern Art, the "Outsider Art" collection, which has been on loan to this country for ten years. It was put together by people who have had mental health difficulties and is a particular form of art. While the country has had the collection for ten years, arbitrarily the owners have now been asked to remove it from IMMA. I ask the Leader to follow this up and find why it is happening. Again, it involves a vulnerable group but it also involves a particular, well recognised form of art. We are lucky to have the collection in this country but a decision has been made arbitrarily to remove it from IMMA.
The key concern on our minds this morning is the situation regarding the banks. In the Irish Independent, for example, David McWilliams, among many others, states: “Act now, minister, or we will all live to regret it.” Deputy Richard Bruton writes an article today stating we should be clear that at this point the banks are a tool, no more, no less. In the long term, the banking sector needs to be radically reformed, as does the public sector.
Senators on this side of the House as well as on the Government side asked yesterday where is the plan from Government. We hear about late night meetings but we desperately need to hear from the Minister for Finance in this House about his plans. Equally, we need answers to questions regarding what measures he proposes to safeguard the public interest if and when such recapitalisation takes place. I am especially concerned at the reliance being placed on putting directors into the banks because they will be in a position where there is a clear conflict of interest.
Everybody would want to be reassured that if there is to be recapitalisation, the money will be used for the right reasons and that small businesses, which are the lifeblood of this economy, will get the income and support they need. They are the businesses that will give us hope in a year or two when, we hope, the economy recovers. However, if they do not get the right support now, they will not recover or be able to give the kind of hope that is needed in the country. When will we have a debate on the current economic situation, the banks and the Government's approach to them at this critical time?
We asked the Leader yesterday, last week and the previous week to deliver on his promise to have regular discussions on the economy which were to take place not less often than once a month. We are still waiting for that debate. This should not be taking up time on the Order of Business but issues arise. The Government is addressing a matter that is all over the newspapers and is of concern to everybody in the country but we are not talking about it. This cannot be right. If the Leader cannot get the proper Minister in, he should get some Minister.
I do not understand what is going on, nor does anybody else. Specifically, I do not understand why we are recapitalising at this time. I know what we are trying to achieve but nobody has explained to me how recapitalising the banks will send out the right message and prove things will return to operating properly. As we are all aware, the American banks and the UK banks were recapitalised but it does not seem to have made a great difference. If we are simply recapitalising so the banks carry on doing what they did before, I do not see it is an advantage to the Irish taxpayer. However, I am not saying I am right about this question because I do not know the answer.
I have been trying to check with small businesses as to how badly they are being treated by the banks. I am coming across situations where people are getting loans and mortgages and where businesses are being allowed to continue. I just do not know the facts in all of this. I know other people are in serious trouble but this is because of bad risks that were taken earlier. What exactly is the clear picture? What are the demands? We know what small businesses need and we know the support to which they are entitled and which they should get. How much are they getting or not getting? Are the banks telling us what is going on at that level? If they will not tell us, let us carry out a survey of people in business to find out what is happening.
On another issue, I raise for the nth time a request that the Leader would deliver on the promise for a debate on education. We have a situation where issues of special education are being completely ignored. Newcomer children with language difficulties are not getting the support they need.
I want to make one simple fact available to the House. Members on the Government side are being told by their Minister about reducing class sizes by one. That does not happen. Members should take this image away with them. A school with 60 pupils and three teachers has a class ratio of 20:1 per class. If one teacher and one pupil are taken away, there are 59 pupils for two teachers. The ratio moves from 20:1 to 30:1, which is why people are upset. It is unfair that Members on the Government side are told at their parliamentary party meetings that there is simply a change of one because it never happens that way. There is always a significant impact, particularly on small schools. This will be the death of schools in rural Ireland.
Senators referred to the difficulties faced by small businesses at present. In this climate it is vital we ensure our small businesses are not being ripped off. I want to give two examples where I believe excessive profiteering is taking place by suppliers to small business. The first is in regard to company travel. Businesses must use airlines to go abroad to do business. We know the additional surcharge will not help but I want to draw the Leader's attention to the Visa charges applied by airlines. Three of the airlines based in Ireland charge a fee of €10 per user for every time the person uses a Visa card. However, British Midland only charges €6 per person so it is clear the others do not have to charge €10. It is excessive profiteering by some airlines and we need action.
The second example is in regard to mobile phone charges. We have spoken before in the House in regard to small businesses paying 66% higher mobile phone charges than the average for the rest of Europe. We will remember that a few months ago there was a storm about the fees being charged for the Apple iPod. Members may be aware the new BlackBerry is about to come out. In Newry and the Netherlands it will be free, but in Navan it will be €110 and the contract prices will be higher again. It is clearly another example where action is needed. I ask the Leader to try to get the communications regulator and the aviation regulator to come to the House to explain exactly what they will do about this issue.
Hear, hear.
I also want to draw attention to the latest annual report of An Bord Pleanála. As a result of the downturn in the economy, there are now 15% fewer cases going to An Bord Pleanála but staff numbers have increased by 26% and the number of external consultants used has risen by 20. It is clear the board needs to look again at its resource requirements. I am not suggesting that redundancies are needed but I do suggest we consider putting placements or secondments from An Bord Pleanála into county halls nationwide. Many county councils are reviewing their town plans and county development plans at present, and they could benefit from the expertise of members of the board. There is now clearly an excess number of staff in An Bord Pleanála and we should consider placing some of them in county halls nationwide.
The points on the need for a debate on the banking system have been well and regularly made in this House. I am sure the Leader will afford us an opportunity with regard to the Finance Bill but there is a need for a particular debate in addition to that, as many Members have stated. A number of factors have delayed this. One is the production of the PricewaterhouseCoopers report for the Government as to the state of the loan books in many of the financial institutions. Part of the problem with the banks is that the collateral they are claiming on many of their outstanding loans is probably falsified based on wildly exaggerated property values. The Government, and the wider body politic, must have such information before we have a proper debate. It is worth putting on record before we have such a debate that the United States has twice changed its policy on banking. The United Kingdom has capitalised several of its banks, including the Royal Bank of Scotland to the value of Stg£21 billion, but it has not achieved the desired effect of additional lending within the system. Regardless of when and how recapitalisation happens in our banking system, it must be properly directed in that there is additional lending and the reserves of the financial institutions are not held on to.
The additional factors must be brought about, including better governance in the financial institutions and the people responsible for bringing about the financial crisis being held to account and questioned. Major questions arise about whether they are the people who should help the financial sector get out of this situation. The wider debate must include all those components.
The Government was right in delaying making this decision until the last possible moment because these decisions have been made in other jurisdictions and they have not worked to date. There is no panacea or magic wand. If we are to get out of this situation the debate we have in the wider body politic must ensure that at least there is an indication that the response we take is the right approach.
These late night crisis meetings regarding the banking situation are not doing us any good and I suggest there has been too much delay. Everybody has made the case for a banking debate and a debate on the wider economy. We are all concerned about the economy and the future of business within our economy. We need to know whether the Government has in mind a State rescue plan or is it seeking a foreign cash injection. If it is a State rescue plan, how does the Minister intend to proceed regarding the issue referred to by our leader on this side of the House? If people are to be nominated to act in the public interest, how will they get over the conflict of interest regarding company law? Does the Minister have in mind — the sooner we know this the better — amending legislation to get over the difficulties in that regard?
As Senator O'Toole pointed out, a recapitalisation may not necessarily help our ailing economy, which is suffering so much, because it may not remove restrictive lending policies. It may simply be used to add to the cash reserves to balance the ratios, but in any event we need to hear from the Leader in response to all the requests we are making on a daily basis. When can we have the debate and, if the Minister for Finance cannot come to the House, we should not have to wait for the Finance Bill. We should be able to have our own debate on these issues forthwith.
I hope tomorrow we will see significant political developments in the North. I seek a debate on Irish unity and welcome the new publication by Dr. Richard Humphreys, Countdown to Unity: Debating Irish Reunification, which was launched by the former Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, yesterday. It sets out practical steps, a road map and a programme on how reunification can be achieved in a peaceful manner. Articles 2 and 3 of Bunreacht na hÉireann refer to the fact that the State’s objective is a peaceful reunification of the country, and Fianna Fáil’s principle has always been a united Ireland. To achieve unity it is incumbent upon us to explain to the Unionist community how a united island would be beneficial to us all. We must be aware that any changes necessary to create this one nation would require sacrifices, but the sacrifices would be insignificant compared to the sacrifices of previous generations.
Is the Senator seeking a debate?
I am, but I am also seeking a debate on the fact that at the same time we seek to unite we also divide. The electoral commission has again proposed that Leitrim should remain divided, despite the fact that 14,000 people signed a petition against it. The constituency commission got 327 submissions, of which 241 related to Leitrim alone. Senator John Ellis spoke many times in this House and throughout the country about the difficulties of being the sole Oireachtas Member from Leitrim, while the Oireachtas Members representing the Sligo, north Leitrim and Roscommon-South-Leitrim do an excellent job. As the Cathaoirleach is well aware, we all prefer to be represented by our own county men and at this 11th hour I ask the Leader to seek fair representation for County Leitrim and intervene on behalf of the people.
I ask the Leader to note the very good news today about an article in The Lancet outlining how a woman in Spain has become the first person in the world to be given a laboratory engineered organ. This transplant operation was based on her own stem cells and did not require any immuno-suppressant drugs. The good news, contrary to what some speakers said in this House last week, is that so much progress is being made in the area of adult stem cell research and related therapies that we have every reason to hope that the cures we seek can be achieved through ethical means and not through embryo destructive research.
It is in that context that I hope to introduce a Bill in the House tomorrow, the Stem Cell Research (Protection of Human Embryos) Bill, which I hope will be taken during Private Members' time next week. I ask for the support of all sides of the House on that. I note what Senator Daly has just said about a united Ireland. Uniting a people is about more than eliminating the borders, it is about having policies that can unite people and that, in the area of research and medicine, can help us find cures with which we can all live. That is important.
I draw the attention of the Leader and the House to the excellent advertisement being run, thanks to Ruhama, on human trafficking which points out to people that to use a trafficked person in prostitution is a criminal offence. We had a debate on that at the time of the Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill. It is incumbent on us to have another debate now in light of the fact that it appears Norway will follow the Swedish example in criminalising the use of a person in prostitution. It is time we had another debate about how we protect people from exploitation in the sex industry. I ask the Leader to make time available for that because the way we treat the most vulnerable people in our society at any stage of life is the true test of our civilisation.
I share the views in support of ethical research. It does us no harm to remind ourselves frequently that there have been no successes with embryonic stem cell research. All the research to date has indicated that the adult stem cells are the ones that are producing successful results. We hear of the new alchemists spending millions of taxpayers' money throughout the world trying to find some cure using embryonic cells, yet after decades there has been no positive result.
I support those Senators who spoke about liquidity problems. We have a capacity to help Irish jobs, and it is vital that we do so, that is, to buy Irish. For the first time in a long time buying Irish has become directly associated with saving jobs in this country. There is a campaign to encourage us to buy local. Both of those campaigns are laudable and should be supported. We should have a debate in the House at the earliest opportunity to encourage people to buy Irish to save Irish jobs this Christmas.
I refer to the statements by Declan Ganley, the chairman of Libertas, to the Sub-Committee on Ireland's Future in the European Union, which are reported in The Irish Times today where he calls for an EU constitution of no more than 25 pages, presumably like the US constitution. I do not know if this man is for real. God bless America and the American constitution, but Europe is not America and it is not a federation as is established in the US constitution. The history and political philosophy on which the European treaties are based and the evolution of the EU in the past 50 years is so distinct from America that there are no lessons on the form of treaty or constitution on which a Europe of 27 member states operates. The European constitution and treaties accommodate 27 member states and 21 official languages, not to mention minority languages. The accommodation of this diversity requires the type of treaties we have, including the treaty of Lisbon. To tear up, as he suggests, 50 years of work on treaty building in Europe is off the wall. I do not know if this man is for real. The political structure in Europe is unique and is a model for the rest of the world. When Mr. Ganley, also at the committee, talked about the political elite, he referred to the Heads of Government of 27 member states, all of whom who were democratically elected, unlike Mr. Ganley’s elite of right-wing eurosceptics. This House should bear this in mind. I ask the Leader if he would like to comment on what Mr. Ganley said about the Lisbon treaty.
I support my colleague, Senator Hanafin, on the issues he raised, along with other speakers, about stem cell research and finance. While there has been a great impetus over the past 24 to 48 hours to try to resolve the capital market situation and falling share prices, especially of the financial institutions, I am not sure what any injection of capital from Government will do about the extraordinary times in which we live and the recession. Despite any cash injection, in whatever format or mechanism, we will still be in a very dark situation as we approach 2009 and throughout 2009. I am deeply concerned about the impact the lack of finance available to business and households will have and what is likely to happen over the next few months.
If there is a cash injection by Government over the next short period, the Leader must ensure he is informed and works with the Minister and others in the Department of Finance who speak to the banking institutions or the Financial Regulator. This is very sensitive. There must be some associated mechanism to ensure cash is made available to those who require it to prevent foreclosures on homes and businesses closing with a loss of employment. Whatever we do to address the capital market difficulties, there must be some leverage to ensure we get the maximum benefit required as we approach the very difficult months ahead.
Perhaps the Leader will pursue my suggestion of a number of weeks ago about the importance of what Senator Hanafin said about buying Irish products and services. I ask the Leader to enter discussions with other leaders in this House to see how we can do it individually, collectively and in our political groupings. I will not ask the Leader to respond to that part of my question today but I ask him some day next week to brief me on the progress he has made with the other political groupings in this House on that matter.
I strongly support Senator Fitzgerald's comments on the case of Ms Pamela Izevbekhai. Ireland has received a well-deserved slap in the face from the European Court of Human Rights on this matter. I have been a Member of this House as we have discussed immigration legislation over a long number of years. I do not believe this kind of circumstance was envisaged by any Member of the House. I see the Leader nodding. Decent people on the Government side tabled amendments to try to ensure this kind of thing would not happen. It is not the intention of the Oireachtas that this woman be placed in such a circumstance. One of her daughters has already died through a massive haemorrhage as a result of this barbarous procedure. We intended that people in those circumstances should be protected.
I do not intend, and would not be allowed, to criticise the judge. He was well within his remit. It was a timid judgement and perhaps the judges are telling us something — that they have rebuked us so often in the past for not securing people's human rights, they have given up. The judge said the balance of convenience favoured enforcement. That is an astonishing statement. The "balance of convenience" against the life of a child. I am sure he is right that the legal points can be discussed in the absence of the mother. He said that only "exceptional circumstances" would justify his intervening and these had not been provided. He said to do otherwise would "usurp" the function assigned to the asylum system. That is a valid and important point. Those entrusted with the asylum system have proved themselves unfit. When will the Immigration and Residence Bill come to the House? That is a very dangerous, bad and defectively drafted Bill that will copper-fasten exactly this kind of thing and it must be amended in this House.
I submitted an Adjournment debate matter which was not in time for today but which I hope will be for tomorrow. It will concern Senator Callely, who very ably chaired a meeting of the Sub-committee on Human Rights of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs. All the Members present were from Seanad Éireann and this shows how actively we participate. Senator Daly was there, and spoke very movingly. This concerns the case of Roma gypsies in Kosovo, whom the United Nations has placed on a site seriously contaminated with lead. Every child born there has degrees of lead poisoning that are off the medical scale. Every one of them is born, and will be born, with irreversible brain damage. This is nothing other than a death camp. Will the Leader draw this to the attention of the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin, and ask him to contact the UN? Appallingly, this is done by the UN and a group of Christian churches which acted in good will but in ignorance of the situation. It simply must be stopped.
I compliment Senator Mullen on his intention to bring forward a Private Members' Bill on stem cell research. It is timely because there is a vacuum in the debate. It is not enough to have sound bites on the Order of Business week in, week out. The debate has become very disjointed and I look forward to hearing what Senator Mullen has to say and participating in the discussion. There was radical, revolutionary news on the radio this morning about stem cell research and its results in Spain. This seems to have been forgotten. This was adult stem cell research and the recipient received a new windpipe. Within ten days of that, the recipient was out at a dance in a nightclub and rang the surgeon to say everything was going well. This is an amazing breakthrough. In fairness to RTE, it presented it in that manner as well. There is a possibility that the limited debate on embryonic stem cell research is distracting from the opportunities that exist for adult stem cell research. If Senator Mullen's Bill gives us an opportunity to make a more detailed contribution to the debate, it will have served its purpose. I compliment him on taking that initiative.
Hear, hear.
I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the House to debate the dreadful gangland murders in Limerick, Dublin and elsewhere. It was indicated yesterday that surveillance legislation may be introduced before the summer of next year. Why has it taken so long for the Minister to take action in respect of thugs and gangland murderers? Why are sentences so short? Why does the maximum sentence not last for more than ten or 12 years? Why is the relevant sentence not 20 years? Why is the Special Criminal Court not being used? Why are these guys allowed to drive around in bulletproof BMWs? Why are they allowed to live in local authority houses? Why are their assets not seized? Why have they been allowed to fly in the face of the law? It seems to me that the Minister has been asleep. Resources have not been provided to the Garda Síochána. It beggars belief that it has taken so long for the Minister to put in place the necessary legislation. I welcome the decision to put in place more checkpoints, to arrest these guys and to seize their assets.
I applaud the people of Limerick and the Munster rugby team for providing such a wonderful spectacle last night. It was a complete contrast to what has been going on in some of the local authority housing estates in that city. It was a demonstration of the wonderful spirit that exists in Limerick. I applaud everyone concerned.
I have visited a couple of secondary schools in the past few days. I was disturbed to note that morale among the teaching profession is quite low. Teachers are concerned about the implications of the cuts which will affect secondary schools. I am aware of a number of schools that have sent notices to parents indicating they intend to withdraw extra-curricular activities like football, debating and games. It is a matter of extraordinary seriousness. It is well accepted that such activities are as essential, if not more so, to the education of young people as anything they may do academically. I was interested to discover that teachers are worried about missing out on extra-curricular interaction with youngsters. I ask the Leader to convey that to the Minister for Education and Science. If teachers get out of the habit of being involved in extra-curricular activity, they may not readily return to such activity. They may develop alternative lifestyles in future times.
This is a matter of extraordinary seriousness because the activities to which I refer can act as a bridge between teachers and students. They allow young students to escape their tension and stress. They give young people an opportunity to develop in a different way. People who do not perform academically often thrive outside the classroom. Many people who excel academically also show excellence in sport. It is a shame that such opportunities may be lost. It is wrong. I appeal to the Leader to contact the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, about this minor issue. He should make the point that the removal of extra-curricular activities such as football and other games would, in effect, undo years of progress in secondary education. I agree with Senator O'Toole's proposal that we should have a general debate on education, with a particular focus on this issue.
I support Senator Callely's comments on the banks. I agree with him that the yardstick by which any arrangements with the banks should be measured should be the extent to which we extract a quid pro quo whereby interest rates are immediately passed on to ordinary consumers, small businesses are supported and a proactive lending policy is put in place throughout the country. The needs of shareholders should not take pre-eminence again.
Hear, hear.
As a teacher, I agree with Senator O'Reilly that teachers are very concerned. Having said that, I would like to think sacrifices can be made. I suggest that parents and teachers should work together in the short term until we come out of this downturn. That is what I would say to teachers. As a teacher, I have encouraged many of my former colleagues to try to work out some arrangement. We do not want children to be deprived of extra-curricular activity. As politicians, we should take the lead by pointing out to our teacher colleagues the road they should be going down in the short term. I know it is not ideal.
It is not realistic either, with respect.
I would like to think we could take such an approach. All I am saying is that some sacrifices are needed in the short term. Many teachers agree with me in that regard.
I agree with the many Senators who have spoken about the problems in the banking sector. I know the Leader is conscious that a full discussion is needed in the House if Members are to thrash out all the points that have been raised in the past couple of weeks. The banks deserve the bad press they are getting at the moment. It would be great to have a full debate in the Seanad, so that all the points can be aired once again.
I would welcome a debate on adult stem cell research. I am glad that we will get an opportunity to discuss the matter.
I agree with some of my colleagues who have expressed delight at the successful outcome of certain research, as reported today in The Lancet. I welcome the news that a woman in Spain is making a good recovery following the procedure that was carried out. I disagree with those who have suggested that this development should preclude or prevent the development of other sorts of research into the potential of stem cells to offer treatment or cures to people with chronic illnesses and conditions like Parkinson’s disease. I do not see how that follows. As a woman, I am concerned about the strange fetishisation of the human embryo.
Hear, hear.
I am rather uncomfortable about the apparent obsession with women's reproductive capacity that is displayed by some Members of this House. I note that Senators on the other side have expressed their support for Senator Mullen's legislation. While I do not imagine I will support it, I look forward to seeing Members on the Government side crossing the floor — one needs to put one's money where one's mouth is — to support the Bill when Senator Mullen introduces it.
I would like to ask the Leader for a debate on a far more pressing matter, which has been mentioned by Senators Fitzgerald and Norris today and which I raised yesterday. I refer to the need to allow female genital mutilation to be used as a ground when people from other countries are applying to be granted leave to remain here, which has arisen in the context of the case of Ms Pamela Izevbekhai. All of us should be concerned that her deportation would have been allowed under Irish law, as interpreted by the High Court, if it had not been for the welcome intervention of the European Court of Human Rights. I wrote to the Minister yesterday to ask him to give Ms Izevbekhai and her daughters leave to remain here on humanitarian grounds. I hope other colleagues on both sides of the House will put similar pressure on the Minister. That is very important.
I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on the implications of the budget cuts on people with disabilities. I note that Senator Ross has tabled an Adjournment debate matter concerning the Centre for Deaf Studies in Trinity College. I share his concern about the apparent ending of the Higher Education Authority's core funding for the centre. Having worked with the centre, I am familiar with the important work it does.
That will be discussed on the Adjournment.
We need a debate on the impact the budget cuts will have on people with disabilities.
Well said.
The centre for deaf studies will be unable to offer training in Irish sign language and English interpretation. Even in the narrow context of the courtroom, it is very important that training for interpreters is provided so that people with hearing disabilities can participate in legal processes.
Well said.
I support all my colleagues who rightly condemned the banks for what they are not doing. I would like to raise a similar issue. I am a customer, as are many people in the midlands, of a television service company and if one does not use a direct debit to pay the subscription, one is charged an additional €3 per month. If the service is not provided, customers must do without it but, meanwhile, the company has their money. This is very high-handed and I contend it is illegal. I would like something done about it. Will the appropriate Minister come to the House to debate this and related issues?
I recently spoke to an individual in the garage business. People can say what they like about that business but it makes a contribution to the economy. I asked the individual how his business was doing and he replied that it was great. He said he can sell a multitude of second-hand cars but cannot secure a cent in finance for them. This issue must be addressed. Every Members of both Houses stood behind the banks when we thought it was the right thing to do. I could have done with being in bed at the time because I was dying with the flu, but I stayed the course with other colleagues. We did what we had to do, but we are not getting the appropriate response from the financial institutions. They are not doing what they are supposed to do.
I support the call of my colleague, Senator O'Reilly, for a debate on the education cuts and the impact the recent budget will have on education. While I have the greatest of respect for Senator Ormonde and I appreciate she was a teacher, these cuts are about the children and the impact they will have on their education, extracurricular activities and their educational development, not about their parents and teachers. The Senator referred to sacrifice. The sacrifice is not about parents or teachers but about the children and how they will be educated. We should not sacrifice children and their future education in any budget.
I also support Senator McFadden's comments about criminal gangs and the devastation they have caused in Limerick and many other cities. It is time for a debate on the criminal justice system so that criminals realise the law of the land will not allow this sub-culture to continue because it is causing devastation in our communities. The only business that is thriving in this country is the drug trade and that is a sad indictment of our society in these modern times. As a society, we must take responsibility because we are creating demand. However, it is the responsibility of the Government and the authorities to ensure these criminals and crime lords do not get away with this dangerous business.
Recently two deadly cargos were landed off the south-west coast. Ireland is an island nation and where next on our coastline will be targeted by drug barons to land their deadly cargos? This problem will not disappear and I seek a debate on the resources of the Naval Service, the Customs and Excise service and the Garda to ensure our coastline is well protected and that similar cargos to those landed in Cork in the past few months will not get through.
Yesterday I supported the call for recapitalisation of the banks but that must only happen if it will lead to additional lending to provide the necessary cashflow for all the businesses in serious trouble. I referred yesterday to business owners in Galway who are wondering whether they will make it to Christmas. Strict terms and conditions must be laid down for recapitalisation, otherwise it will not address the purpose for which it is needed.
I strongly support the call for a debate on female genital mutilation. I was appalled by the decision of the High Court yesterday but I was delighted by the intervention of the European Court of Human Rights. This woman lost a daughter in 1994 to this awful practice. Many of us have young daughters. Can we imagine that we would in any way condone or support this practice, which is absolutely outrageous?
Today I will publish the results of a survey of 115 public representatives on education. I conducted the survey prior to the budget and the main concerns of public representatives, as pointed out to them by parents and teachers——
We are not here to promote anyone's survey. The Senator must ask a question on the Order of Business. Time is up and I would appreciate a question.
Pupil-teacher ratios and overcrowded classrooms are the main concerns. The main change that is sought is broader curriculum choice, which means more teachers. Ironically, these issues were affected by the cuts the Government introduced in the budget. As Senator Coffey said, this issue is not about the teachers, it is about the effect on children. When will we have the debate I have called for repeatedly for almost five weeks? The Leader promised the debate but we still do not know the date. I look forward to his reply.
Before I respond to the Order of Business, I have always believed that views expressed in the House are made sincerely and genuinely and each individual is entitled to his or her sincerely held views. I do not like the tone of a comment made by a Senator this morning regarding the sincerely held views of a Member of this House.
Hear, hear. Senator Bacik was outrageous.
Senators Fitzgerald, O'Toole, Hannigan, Boyle, Coghlan, Ormonde, Glynn and Healy Eames called for various matters to be discussed and given importance. Matters pertaining to the budget can be discussed in the House during the debate on the Finance Bill. However, I am endeavouring to have a major debate where Senators can express their views to the Minister for Finance, early next week if at all possible, because we are awaiting the PricewaterhouseCoopers report, which is with the Government, and other events that will happen this week.
The report is not in yet.
When will the report be published?
We will have the benefit of those, hopefully, to express our views and assist in any way we can.
Calls were made for a debate on banking issues, which the Deputy Leader correctly outlined in his contribution. The lifeblood of business is the availability of credit, particularly at Christmas time. Every business in the retail sector needs increased stock and, therefore, additional overdraft facilities. This has been the case for many years. In the main, retailers are being assisted but I understand from my inquiries that smaller retailers are not being facilitated. I read the article about the lady who had a €5,000 overdraft and who highlighted at the weekend that she needed a €10,000 facility. That is not the spirit of banking we have all come to know. Everyone in business in Ireland has done well in the past ten or 12 years. As I often said, we were the envy of the world. What was gained should not be lost but should be appreciated.
Hopefully, the events of the next 48 hours will put confidence back into the retail sector because the word "confidence" does not exist in that sector at present. I know this from experience and from meeting so many people. Senator McFadden will be aware of this in our area. The lack of confidence is widespread in the midlands. We all have confidence in the Taoiseach. We all are honoured the Taoiseach has come from the midlands and we are looking forward to getting our fair share, to say the least of it, in the coming years. However, we must put confidence back into the marketplace and I hope the events of the next few days will help in no small way in that regard. I would not like to say any more about that at present.
I agree with colleagues on female genital mutilation and the plight of Pamela and her family. I am pleased the Government has confirmed it will hold this decision until after 10 December and the European courts consider this urgent matter. It would take a tear from a stone watching television last night to see the human hurt and the appalling circumstances in which this woman finds herself. As has been said, having lost a daughter already and with two other beautiful young girls in her family, she is experiencing a terribly distressful time. We in Ireland have been always proud of our stance on humanitarian issues. Please God, maybe this will come through at the 11th hour for this poor unfortunate lady who is experiencing this difficulty.
Senators O'Toole, O'Reilly, Ormonde, Coffey and Healy-Eames called for a debate on education. I am endeavouring to have this take place. Hopefully, by tomorrow morning I might be able to let the House know when this will take place. Senator Ormonde gave us the benefit of her views this morning, as of course did the representative of the teachers here, Senator O'Toole, who has excelled in his career in what he has done for the teaching profession and his membership of this House. Senator O'Toole has been always to the fore in giving the House, the country and the Government the benefit of his experience.
A quite exemplary character.
The Leader without interruption.
Let us have the debate.
The Leader without interruption, please.
It is wonderful to have a Member here of his stature who has served for 20 years in the Upper House, and his experience is crucial to the younger Members.
For example, teachers have made an immense contribution to the Gaelic Athletic Association over the years and, in my view, have given us the best amateur organisation in the world. No doubt when the pressure comes on and push comes to shove on team sport, as is never more evident than on St. Patrick's Day in Croke Park with the power of the parish, the teachers will not be found wanting either.
What about the children?
Whatever the leadership might be doing or saying, the commitment of teachers in every parish in Ireland has been second to none. That has been my experience.
Senator O'Toole should go to Croke Park again.
I spoke about the children, not the teachers.
I would be guided by those who are here——
Senator Cassidy is saying Senator O'Toole should go to Croke Park again.
——who are involved in the teaching profession. I came from a class of 37, for the information of Senator Coffey, and I hope those who are in classes of fewer have a better opportunity and are as fortunate to do as well.
As Senator Cassidy.
We all are honoured to be here representing our people.
(Interruptions).
Senator Cassidy did not mention children once.
Senator Hannigan outlined his views on An Bord Pleanála and I will pass on his comments to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
Senator Daly called for a debate on Northern Ireland in the context of former Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, launching a book last night. I certainly can have this debate take place. It is timely that we would have a debate on Northern Ireland and let Senators express their views on the matter.
Senators Ó Murchú, Ormonde, Mullen, Hannigan and Bacik all welcomed the news we heard on the radio regarding the lady in Spain and stem cell research. It is a marvellous breakthrough. It is fantastic news. How refreshing and uplifting it was for us all to listen to it on our way to the House this morning.
Senator Mullen also called for a debate on protecting vulnerable people in society, particularly in the sex industry. I have no difficulty in providing time for this.
Senators Hanafin, Callely and O'Reilly called for a debate on saving Irish jobs by buying Irish. This is a timely request and I certainly will provide time for this. I recognise the sincerity with which this has been asked of me and I hope to have this included in the next two weeks.
Senator Regan raised the visit yesterday of Mr. Ganley to the Joint Committee on European Affairs Sub-committee on Ireland's Future in the European Union. I was uplifted, as many colleagues in the House were, to see how well the committee performed yesterday when the high-profile visit of Mr. Ganley took place. There were some magnificent contributions made by some very young Deputies and very young Senators. I certainly compliment everyone concerned in the deliberations of that meeting yesterday morning.
Hear, hear.
Senator Norris asked when the immigration Bill will come before the House. I will have inquiries made in that regard.
Senators McFadden and Coffey expressed strong views on criminal justice issues and what the Minister is trying to do by bringing in new legislation giving the Garda Síochána powers to raise additional evidence which they can present to the courts. I compliment the Minister on that.
On behalf of the House, I join Senators McFadden and Coffey in congratulating the Munster team. It was unreal, an outstanding performance. We all were glued to our television sets. It was timely to uplift the community in Limerick. Our hearts went out to Limerick last week and our hearts were behind Munster last night. I congratulate everyone involved on the magnificent performance.
Senator Glynn called on me to take note and, if necessary, have a debate on the television service companies that are charging for a signal where none is available. I will pass on his strong views to the Minister and see how we can progress this request.
Order of Business agreed to.