The Order of Business is No. 1, statements regarding expenditure measures for the stabilisation of the public finances to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude not later than 4 p.m. Spokespersons may speak for 20 minutes and other Senators for eight minutes, and Senators may share time, by leave of the House.
Order of Business.
I recall a former Fianna Fáil Taoiseach stating that any Government that presided at a time when 200,000 people were unemployed should be removed from office.
Senators
It was 100,000.
Yesterday 326,000 people queued for unemployment benefit. In the past 18 months under this Government the unemployment rate and our national debt have doubled. It is necessary to focus again on the real economy, on jobs and enterprise survival. There are many things that can be done to generate employment. We need to accelerate the schools building programme, reverse the hike in value added tax, VAT, to give some relief to retailers and to provide pay related social insurance relief, PRSI, to employers in distressed companies which have problems competing.
It costs the Government more than €20,000 in social welfare payments and lost tax receipts for every job that is lost. Is it not better to intervene before rather than after companies close? It is also necessary to put in place a loan guarantee system for small businesses as part of the recapitalisation of the banks.
The principle of asking public servants to contribute more to their pensions is not unreasonable but it is not right to ask those public servants on a small wage to do so. There is no fairness in the system that is about to be introduced by the Government. We have had a plan to cut wages and to increase payments. What we need now is a plan to get people back working, to create jobs and to maintain the jobs that we have. Unfortunately, the Government is bereft of ideas. It is jaded and has no plan. I call on the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment to come to the House and outline to us what the Government intends to do to tackle this national crisis of unemployment.
Every one of the 326,000 unemployed people must exist on a low wage, feed and clothe their children, bring them to school, and pay mortgages. That is what it is like when one is unemployed. We must put ourselves in the situation where we can understand how those people feel. There are many of them in my constituency now, and it is the same throughout the country. Something will have to be done, and there is nothing imaginative coming from the Government. I call on the Tánaiste to come to the House and tell Members whether the Government has a plan, or whether we just carry on as before and react to situations.
I thank the Leader of the House for addressing our request to have the issue we raised yesterday dealt with diplomatically with the Head of State at the Vatican. I note it worked wonders and that he responded fully by yesterday afternoon. That is the way the Seanad should be: effective, efficient and topical.
Some things are easier than others.
We are on the Order of Business.
I did not raise this at the Leader's meeting the other day, but I did not spot it until now. The discussion today should not just be about the stability of the public finances, but also about a general economic recovery.
I wish to make one comment about what was said the other day and which I touched on yesterday. I would like the Leader to take one message back to the Government. A public servant on €25,000 per year is now being asked to pay substantial amounts of money for a pension which is less than the State pension. Where is the equity in that? It will be less than the €240 per week which people in the private sector would receive through their ordinary PRSI contributions. I raise this as an anomaly. I am sure the Government did not see this, but it should have. While one can understand where the Government is coming from in asking people like ourselves, earning salaries approaching €100,000 per annum, to make a contribution. Everyone earning such money, in the public and private sector, should be asked to make a similar contribution. Apart from asking ordinary public sector workers to pay more for their pensions, the rest of us should be asked to make the same level of contribution. There is no sense in not asking high earners in the private sector to pay nothing.
We intended dealing with the Harbours (Amendment) Bill 2008 today. I express my admiration for the fight that Senator Denis O'Donovan has been making on this issue. Ba mhaith liom go mbeadh díospóireacht againn ar the west, iarthar na tíre seo. Tá tuarascáil curtha i gcló anois ag an Committee on Arts, Sport, Tourism, Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. Chuir an Seanadóir Pearse Doherty an tuarascáil le chéile. This report on the west has been accepted by the committee and ba mhaith liom go mbeadh díospóireacht air sin. Tá a lán rudaí ag baint leis sin ó thaobh tionscail na hiascaireachta, bóithre, iarnróid agus fostaíochta de agus ó thaobh a lán rudaí eile de chomh maith. Is maith agus is cóir go mbeadh díospóireacht againn air sin. I ask the Leader to allow us use Senator Doherty's document, prepared for the committee, to have a debate next week on the west.
I do not want to get into the debate raised by Senator O'Donovan, but the reality is that there is a harbour authority in west Cork running an efficient and effective operation and making money in the locality, yet someone in Dublin has decided it should be part of a Cork city outfit. That will again disable the west and is completely unnecessary. There is no gain and it adds to administration. Ba mhaith liom go mbeadh díospóireacht againn ar an iarthar and on that report.
I am sure Members will join me in congratulating the makers of the Irish films "Hunger" and "Garage" on winning Evening Standard awards in London. It is a testament to the good work done by the Irish Film Board. At the moment, there is a level of disquiet among many members of the Irish film industry. I must declare my own interest here as I am involved in a television production company. The Government has not reappointed or confirmed the appointment of members of the Irish Film Board which it was meant to do in mid-January. As a result of this, the board cannot approve any grants or development funding for the production of films or television programmes. There is a concern that something is coming down the line. Can the Leader use his good office to find out what is going on and allay the concerns within the industry? Many people depend on the film industry for their livelihoods, which has been very beneficial to our own tourism industry.
We had an interesting debate here last night on the subject of human rights. I spoke about the proposed cuts to the overseas development aid budget. The impact on this will be severe. The Minister mentioned yesterday in the Dáil that 1 billion people go to bed hungry every night. It is very important that we do not cut our aid. We have done tremendous work in aid over recent years. Hans Zomer, the chief executive of Dóchas, stated that although aid is a very small percentage of our overall spend, 5% of all cuts proposed by the Taoiseach will come from the aid budget. Senator Boyle described this last night as unfortunate, but this is not the word used by the aid agencies. If we go ahead with these cuts, other governments will use it as an excuse to cut their own aid budgets. We need to show leadership here. We cannot sell out on our principles and on our commitments to the developing world. I ask the Leader and Senators on the Government side of the House to ask their Ministers to look again at these proposed cuts.
Senator O'Toole generally makes much sense, and it is very difficult to disagree with him on most of the issues he raises. His contribution this morning is no exception. I agree with him fully on the focus he has put on Senator Doherty's report to the Oireachtas committee, of which I am a member. It was very well received because it was very comprehensive. I looked at the number of people contributing to the report, most of them coming from Sinn Féin. I feel the document would provide a particular focus for us. I hope it can be brought before this House, so that we can have an opportunity to discuss it, especially in the context of the west.
I also agree with the point he made on the stand taken by Senator O'Donovan regarding the Harbours (Amendment) Bill 2008. Even though the Bill is coming from the Government, it is important that a person can stand up in this House and put forward ideas based on his or her own experience and knowledge. Senator O'Donovan has done an exceptionally good job on Committee Stage. Senator Doherty's document would give the House an opportunity to see this issue in its totality. Rather than just look at an isolated aspect, as is the case with the Harbours (Amendment) Bill 2008, we could look at the whole situation in the west.
I compliment Sinn Féin on its response to the economic recovery plan, the first phase of which was announced the other day. It has brought forward specific proposals and it is important that all political parties bring forward proposals at this stage. I had intended speaking yesterday, but I left it a bit late to do so. I was going to say that there is an absolute sea change in media coverage since the first phase of the economic recovery plan was put forward. There is great emphasis on responsibility. The Irish Independent is calling today for responsibility from the Government and the Opposition. This point is made on the front page and on the inside pages. It is a great development. We can now start to see light at the end of the tunnel. People are embracing the seriousness of the reality we now face. It is clear that if we do not do that, we have no hope of economic recovery. Senators will recall that in the first few days following the election of the US President, Mr. Obama, he was held up as a messiah — he could do no wrong. If they have been reading the newspapers over recent days, however, they will be aware that he is now dealing with the reality of his office in exactly the same way. While I have great respect for President Obama and admire him greatly, his glamour boy image——
He apologised.
——is actually gone at the moment.
That is what is important.
Like public representatives throughout the world, President Obama has to deal with the reality of his office at a time of global recession.
He is honest.
Over the next week, we should all start to embrace that reality. I will use the dreaded word by suggesting that we should work together in a patriotic fashion for the good of this country.
Come on.
If that happens, we will have an opportunity to see a signpost for the future.
I agree with Senator Cummins that in these extremely difficult and damaging times, it is now a question of surviving and saving every job we possibly can. I look forward to hearing the Tánaiste outline the Government's proposals in respect of PRSI. Will additional infrastructural developments be sanctioned to keep the building industry going? We cannot afford to slacken in that regard when so much work remains to be done for the good of this country and its economy. We cannot afford to see all building jobs disappear. I would like to raise an important matter that ties in with all this. Will the Leader let the House know when the banks, especially Allied Irish Banks and Bank of Ireland, will be recapitalised and restructured? This issue is central if the economy is to survive and get moving again. It needs a bit of a lift. It is obvious that legislation will need to be amended.
This matter can be raised during the debate that will follow the Order of Business.
Exactly.
I know that, but I would like to ask the Leader a question about the necessary legislation. When will the Bill governing the National Pensions Reserve Fund be amended to provide for billions of euro to be taken from the fund? We do not know how much will be taken. This measure will affect the availability of credit and normal working capital to businesses that are being choked and are suffering badly. The Government's dithering on this issue is severely damaging our economy. We need to support business. Until that is done, we will have no trust and no confidence. I look forward to hearing from the Leader on this vital matter.
Before Christmas, I predicted in this House that the number of people unemployed would reach 500,000. Some people outside this House told me I was insane to think that. I now believe that number will increase to 700,000, or 20%, by the end of the year.
I was unable to be here yesterday, so I watched the proceedings of this House and the Lower House on television. I did not get any sense that either House is grasping the extent of this problem. Those whose greed has now been followed by anger and fear are looking for scapegoats to blame. That this is a global recession is not being accepted.
We are told that bankers, financiers and people in the political class were negligent and incompetent. I do not agree with those who maintain there was a high level of corruption in this country during the boom. While I accept that questions may need to be asked about neglect and incompetence in Anglo Irish Bank, the level of corruption that was a feature of banks throughout the world was not evident here.
The political class does not seem to appreciate how bad the recession is throughout the world. It is in Asia, in Australia and in the United States. I have recently returned from Britain, where I observed that the midlands of that country are like a wasteland. The shops and pubs are empty. Ireland is not a special case.
I am tired of listening to the revising of history, particularly the blaming of the political class, including the former Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, and his successor, Deputy Cowen. We had a boom. Everybody in Ireland participated in it. Irish people bought 200,000 houses overseas during the boom. They were not all bought by bankers. Everybody in Ireland participated in the boom.
That is not true.
Everybody in Ireland is now looking for a scapegoat. That kind of anger is of no use at this time. Like alcoholics on a binge, we need to reach rock bottom. We need a reality check before we can rebuild.
Hear, hear.
We need to face the fact that we might have the best part of a million people out of work. We need to stop playing party politics. I repeat the call I made before Christmas for a national Government. We need a national plan. We need to bring an end to this kind of partisan politics. We need reform and cutbacks, beginning with the political class. We should get real by making serious cuts to salaries and expenses, rather than tinkering with them.
I intended to raise a couple of issues yesterday, but I was not fortunate enough to get in. My colleague, Senator O'Toole, managed to raise a number of them successfully. I refer in particular to the question of the rehabilitation by the Vatican of Bishop Williamson. I was interested in the contribution of a certain little interchange here.
Who is the Senator calling a "little interchange"?
I do not engage in personal abuse. That is a very interesting comment because Senator Mullen's contribution yesterday included his usual mantra of appealing for calm and rational debate without personality-based or ad hominem arguments. He then proceeded to imply that Senator O’Toole was a clown and that I was ignorant, which may well be true.
Never.
I cannot answer for Senator O'Toole.
I implied that he was clever.
I am prepared to accept my ignorance as one of the great national resources of Ireland. Ignorant as I am, I heard Bishop Williamson on the radio saying there were certainly not 6 million Jewish victims of the Holocaust. He claimed that the correct figure might be 200,000. He does not believe there were any gas chambers in Auschwitz. He has said that not a single person, Jewish or otherwise, died in a gas chamber. That is unconscionable.
Hear, hear.
It cannot be allowed to stand without rebuke. It is quite appropriate to challenge such views. The Holocaust was a uniquely catastrophic event in human history. While the overwhelming preponderance of victims were Jewish, they were not exclusively Jewish. This extraordinary and tragic event is part of our universal inheritance of suffering as human beings. It is inappropriate for it to be used to deflect criticism of Israeli foreign and military policy, for example. To use it in that manner, as has been done, represents a betrayal of the victims of the Holocaust. I hope it does not happen again.
I was interested to hear Senator Hannigan speak about last night's interesting Private Members' debate on human rights. The media has shown no interest in the debate, however. I issued a script but not a word of it was picked up. People are preoccupied with the economy, as Senator Harris said. That is natural because it is a huge problem. We must not allow matters such as those raised again today by Senator Hannigan to be blown off the agenda. The media has a responsibility in this regard. It cannot let these matters go entirely. I accept the economy is important. During last night's debate, Senator Hanafin spoke about the enormous waste of money on material that is sent to us in packages. I got an angry communication from a constituent yesterday about something that was included with her Eircom telephone bill. The document in question sets out the life and times of the former Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, in one of its central sections.
I hope it is sent to everyone.
My constituent objected to the document on the basis that she had not paid for it and did not want it included with her telephone bill.
I ask the Senator not to display anything in the Chamber.
She did not agree with Deputy Ahern, although that is nothing to do with me.
I look forward to getting my copy of it.
She said it was not appropriate for the first shot in his campaign for the park to be included with her telephone bill.
He is a natural as well.
I am rather inclined to agree with her.
I do not want any document to be displayed in the House by any Member.
I do not have much more to add to the fine contributions made by Senators Ó Murchú and Harris on how best we can all work together. I watched a television programme on Monday night during which two representatives from parties bickered during the entire programme. I listened to "Today with Pat Kenny" this morning and those who were being interviewed again engaged in point-scoring to determine who would make the best contribution. The contributions are wholesome and fine statements are being made, but nevertheless it is time we worked together. We are in a crisis and the public are calling for us to work together to get out of it. I urge that we all work together and endorse the many fine points raised here this morning.
I wish to raise the motion on the human rights issue on which we had a fine discussion yesterday evening. I compliment Senator Norris on bringing the motion forward. I too am disappointed at the proposed cutback in our contribution to overseas development aid. I will examine how best we can work in this regard into the future. Having visited very poor countries, I know what goes on there. I hope we can get around this issue in some other way. If we cannot increase our allocation, we can work with our embassies to see how best we can maintain the programmes in place and fulfil our obligation in that respect. I want to do that.
I endorse the stand taken by Senator O'Donovan in regard to Bantry Bay and how best he can protect that area. He is doing a fine job and I wish him well. I hope that we will all work together on this matter.
The Senator should vote against the Bill.
I will not vote against the Bill.
The Senator should top talking out of both sides of her mouth. She should vote against the Bill and stand up and be counted for once.
What did the Senator say?
She should stand up and be counted.
Excuse me, Senator.
Senator Buttimer should cease interrupting.
Senator Ormonde should stand up and be counted. She should vote against the Bill.
The Senator is so rude.
Senator Buttimer should make no further interruption.
I cannot believe Senator Buttimer's rudeness. That is the bottom line. Of course I will not vote against the Bill——
The Senator cannot have it both ways.
The Harbours Bill is not on the agenda today and we cannot discuss it now.
I know that, but I can make a statement that I endorse the stand taken by Senator O'Donovan.
I am now taking questions to the Leader on the Order of Business. I should not have allowed any Member to speak on that matter. That Bill which was before us previously will come before us at a later date.
Can the Leader tell us why the Minister for Education and Children is boycotting this House? Since the budget was introduced he has not once come into this House to answer any questions on his education brief. Yesterday we saw 15,000 students protest outside Government Buildings. They are fearful that third level fees could be reintroduced. We have had no debate in this House on the funding of third level education.
This situation is critical. I met students in Galway who told have told me that if fees are reintroduced, they will have to quit college and join the dole queue as they will not be able to pay them because their parents have lost their jobs. No vision has been shown here. The students are our future.
Fianna Fáil councillors have written to me requesting that the book grant be reintroduced and that home school liaison teachers be retained. People are desperately trying to cope and the effects of the education cuts have not been felt yet. Most of them will come in on 1 September next year. I ask that the Leader give us a date when the Minister for Education and Children will come into this House for an urgent debate on education.
I sense great concern among people at the unfairness of the first prong of the announcement of the public service cuts by the Taoiseach, Deputy Cowen. I received a call from a person yesterday who said, "In this country we have the reverse of Robin Hood where we are asking the poor and the easy targets to pay for the sins of the rich." It is unpalatable that people who did not cause the problem are the first who are being asked to pay. In the interests of moving forward matters, I suggest the Ministers for Finance and Enterprise, Trade and Employment go first to the bankers, speculators and Ministers and ask them what can they offer.
The Senator can make that point to the Minister for Finance who will be in the House later.
Following that and a apology having been given to the Irish people who were asked to come on board, then the Ministers should approach the rest of the people who did not cause the problem. The innocent are being asked to pay first and it is not fair. That is what is sickening the public.
I ask the Leader to arrange for a debate on entrepreneurship. This country is full of people who have great ideas. Some of them lost their jobs recently. All of them have a work ethic and are dependable, traits that attracted businesses to invest here. People here have a good work ethic, getting up in the morning and working 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., Monday to Friday. We must find mechanisms to take on the people who lose their jobs to ensure they retain their spirit, work ethic and "can do" attitude.
It would be helpful if the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment came to the House to discuss what specific measures can be introduced to foster entrepreneurship. Such measures would create new industries and opportunities for those who have lost or will lose their jobs. In these economically straitened times good ideas come out of the woodwork, but we need then to be able to rush in and give the necessary supports to those people to make their dreams become reality, which would involve their becoming employers, not employees. Of all the people who should know that, it is the people of Donegal who rose up after the loss of Fruit of the Loom. Many of them went on to become employers, not employees, post that disastrous loss for the county.
I ask the Leader to provide an opportunity for us to exchange views with the Tánaiste on that issue. A parochial issue for the people from Donegal was the loss of Fruit of the Loom to another country with cheaper production lines. Yet we are losing Boston Scientific to Galway. With respect to the people of Galway, I would like an answer as to why Galway is more competitive than Letterkenny for those particular jobs. I would like the opportunity to go through the issues that seemingly have made the north west less competitive.
I ask that we take on board the issue currently being before the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment, which is examining the reasons for the price differential in products between the North and the South. I raised the issue of Translink here prior to Christmas. If one buys one's ticket in Dublin, it will cost €52 return, but if one buys it in Belfast it will cost £36 sterling, which is an exchange rate of 69 cent to the sterling £1. That is completely wrong for a co-financed European "hands across the Border" project. We have to get the message out loud and clear to consumers that they have to stand up and reject such exploitation. It would be useful if we could take on the issues in this House that are being dealt with in that committee and explore further the factors that are making us less competitive. We have to get the message out to retailers, suppliers or whoever is causing the problem that we will not stand over the exploitation of the consumer.
The Senator can raise that point during the debate later.
During the debate and talk about economic doom and gloom last week, the Minister, Deputy Cullen, sadly announced the abandonment of the sports capital programme. It has served sporting organisations and rejuvenated and consolidated rural communities. It has funded sports clubs for young people. It has given people in rural Ireland a great opportunity to fundraise and develop their local communities. That was a retrograde decision by the Minister. We should not forget that this is a Minister who, I believe, is ostensibly an anti-rural Ireland politician. I say that because he is the Minister who abolished the first-time buyer's grant when he was Minister with responsibility for local government. He is also the Minister who increased, in some cases by 600%, the planning and development charges attached to one-off houses in rural areas. The combined financial calamity of that decision is about €10,000, which has impacted on many young people throughout the country.
Given that he has now kicked rural Ireland further in the gut, will the sports capital programme be reactivated in 2010? What will happen to the money that has been raised through the national lottery system? Given that grants will not be paid this year, what will become of that money? I want the Leader to ask in particular if a cost benefit analysis was carried out prior to this decision. If the answer to that question is yes, I would judge the decision, in its entirety, to be ill advised.
The unemployment statistics released yesterday are frightening. I was in the company of other Oireachtas Members when the announcement was made on the news yesterday. The reaction on their faces was a sight to behold. Given that the numbers out of work have reached 327,000, is it not time that we debate in earnest how to provide job creation opportunities, employment schemes and return to education schemes? We must ensure there are upskilling and retraining opportunities for those who lose their jobs, particularly the many workers in the construction industry who did not go on to third level education because of the lure of the earnings to be made on building sites. These people are now seeking work without the benefit of a skill or trade. Training schemes must be brought up to a standard that reflects the current economic difficulty.
In conjunction with Senator O'Donovan, I intend to press the amendments I have tabled on Committee Stage of the Harbours (Amendment) Bill 2008. Our names appear jointly under some of the amendments. I advise Members on the Government side to follow us into the lobbies if they are serious and determined in their views on that legislation.
Senators
Hear, hear.
The Senator may discuss that legislation when Committee Stage resumes.
Does the Leader consider it fair that young gardaí, teachers and nurses will now have to hand over an additional €300 or €400 per month to the Exchequer as a result of the pension levy? Meanwhile, a consultant in a private clinic has only to bear an additional income levy of 1%. Is that fair?
I conclude by saying that I do not believe Senator O'Toole is ignorant. One could never level that type of allegation at a Kerryman. As a former Tánaiste from Kerry said in Dáil Éireann some years ago, "When you are as ignorant as we are on this side of the House, you have to be very clever."
I support Senator Keaveney's call for the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Coughlan, to attend a debate in this House on the various incentives and investment policies in place to encourage enterprise and entrepreneurship. Like Senator Ormonde, I support the good work being done by Senator O'Donovan in regard to the Harbours (Amendment) Bill 2008.
We are not discussing that Bill today.
I simply wish to record my support for Senator O'Donovan and to point to my knowledge of the Bantry Bay and Dunmanus Bay areas. I hope the Senator is successful in his endeavours.
Will the Leader organise a debate on the schools building programme? A school in my constituency, St. John the Baptist's junior boys school in Clontarf, is in need of replacement classrooms. The current prefabricated facilities have been in use long past their life expectancy. When the Taoiseach announced the expenditure measures last Tuesday, he indicated that €300 million was to be reprioritised for the schools building programme. I hope St. John the Baptist's school will be accommodated in this reprioritisation and that we will have a better understanding——
The Senator should submit this issue for debate on the Adjournment.
I hope it will be discussed either in the House or as an Adjournment matter.
Senator Harris expressed irritation at all the talk in this House and the questioning of Government economic policy. He suggests that we need a national Government. The reality, however, is that politics is a battle of ideas, exchange and dialogue as to what are the best policies for the State. That is what parliamentary democracy is about, pure and simple. The Senator may feel uncomfortable on the Fianna Fáil benches at this particular time given the absence of——
It is not relevant to the Order of Business to comment on any person's position in this House.
These remarks are a preface to my question to the Leader. A national Government is required when the incumbent Administration does not have the numbers to take decisions. Leadership and competent Government are essential in this crisis and are precisely what we do not have. There has been much constructive engagement by the Opposition. We have offered many ideas and have acknowledged the seriousness of the economic difficulties with which we are faced. In the last seven months in particular, the Opposition has urged the Taoiseach to take some decisions. He has failed to do so. Moreover, his procrastination has further worsened the economic circumstances.
That issue can be discussed later. Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
By way of constructive criticism, I have a question for the Leader. The Taoiseach made the announcement on Tuesday of his grand plan to secure a reduction in Exchequer expenditure. Of the €2 billion in savings to be made this year, €1.4 billion is to come from the public sector pension levy. In The Irish Times today, Dominic Coyle writes that, after tax relief, the saving will be €900 million rather than €1.4 billion. Given that the changes will not be introduced until March, the saving for 2009 will be only €750 million. I do not point to this figure in order to suggest it should be higher or lower. However, it raises the question of whether the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance and officials in the Department of Finance can count. The €1.4 billion was supposed to be the definite figure in this patchwork proposal for €2 billion in savings. Now, however, it is not at all clear that even that particular target will be achieved. Will the Leader clarify this?
I welcome the comments this morning by Senators Norris and O'Toole in regard to the Holocaust. However, I must correct Senator Norris on one point.
The Order of Business is not the time to correct other Members. Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
To clarify, I did not compare Senator O'Toole to a clown. He is far from a clown. Rather, I compared him to a clever man who uses the catch cries of the clown. There is an important distinction. I have great respect for both Senator O'Toole and Senator Norris.
We are all glad the Vatican has made clear not only that it was unaware of this man's unacceptable views but also that he may hold no post as a prelate unless he renounces those views. The lesson from all this is that it is good to presume good will because good will is generally what is there. There may be another lesson, namely, that if the media coverage had brought out the nuances of this story in advance, we might not have had much of the commentary that took place in various parliaments and in the media.
What is the Senator's question to the Leader?
I am pleased Senator Hannigan raised the issue of the proposed cuts in the overseas aid budget. He is absolutely right to cite the observation of Mr. Hans Zomer of Dóchas that those who have not contributed to the financial crisis but are affected most severely by it are the very people whom Irish Aid is designed to reach. It is shameful that while 2% of our budget is allocated to Irish Aid, 5% of the proposed expenditure cuts apply to it. I call for a specific debate on this matter. Our treatment of the poorest in the world will reflect how we treat each other at home. That is the issue.
There has been much talk recently of announcements being made outside the Oireachtas. I am concerned to read the report in The Irish Times today of yesterday’s proceedings in the Supreme Court wherein the State seems to be putting forward as its position that the human embryo does not enjoy any constitutional rights under the definition of “unborn”. Is the State throwing the case and pre-empting the Supreme Court decision by making this dramatic announcement about what it believes the law should be, without any debate having taken place on the issue in the Oireachtas? It is very disturbing. The Attorney General seems to believe that the human embryo is property, the equivalent of a blood sample.
Is the Senator seeking a debate on this issue?
This is moral anarchy. It is extremely disturbing that the State seems to be speaking in this way on a very sensitive issue. I call for a debate on this matter.
Will the Leader undertake to invite the Taoiseach to the House, given that he has not been here since he assumed office? It is important that he attend a debate on the role of the Government and the programme for Government. I remind Senators opposite who raised the issue of a national Government that only this week the leader of my party, Deputy Kenny, was refused a briefing by the Government. Why has the Government refused to take on board the policies my party has put forward? It makes no sense to make an argument for national Government if the policies proposed by the Opposition are not even entertained.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
That is my first question. Members opposite are open to a charge of hypocrisy if they continue to talk out of both sides of their mouths. They should vote with the Opposition, if they believe what we say is right. If not, they should not say two things.
In light of my Adjournment matter on Tuesday, I ask the Leader for a debate on the national lottery and on where the money it raises is going. In his reply, the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy Martin Cullen, stated the money from the national lottery goes into Exchequer finances. I believe the decision by the Minister to put a freeze on the sports capital programme is wrong. It sends the wrong message to the sporting community and voluntary groups but, more important, it stops us as a nation and a society from building a sustainable community. We have benefited greatly from the sports capital programme. I would much prefer to see the national lottery funding local sporting and community groups rather than sponsoring "Coronation Street" on TV3.
I join with Senator Norris in condemning Eircom, a private company——
Please. The Senator should not display documentation from any company.
I will not, but it is wrong of Eircom to promote a former Taoiseach at the expense of other politicians. Let us have fair play. It sends the wrong message, creates a second class of politician and should not be done. It also upsets people.
I endorse some of the cries for a national effort, whether one calls it national government or solidarity among the parties. There is a sense of urgency in this House, among both Government and Opposition, about the emergency situation we face. In Northern Ireland, when they were trying to make the big leap they said they would all jump together. If we are prepared to make sacrifices, it is important that we all jump together. In that light, I ask the Leader to ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and National Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, to come to this House to tell us why the workforce in the ESB is being given a 3.5% rise, at a time when unemployment has soared to 326,000 and everybody else is told to make a sacrifice on pay.
Senators
Hear, hear.
It is unforgivable that it should happen at this time. This is a well-paid workforce where people earn up to €70,000 per year, with some, I suspect, earning a great deal more. This body is owned by the Government, although a semantic defence is put that it is private sector under partnership. That is nonsense. The ESB is owned and controlled by the Government. It was refreshing to hear the Minister, Deputy Gormley, state, courageously, that he was concerned about this issue. Concern is not enough. The Government has the power to direct the ESB not to pay this exorbitant increase. Otherwise, the national solidarity we are discussing will be broken left, right and centre by people. One cannot blame them. Everybody will take what they can get away with. The problem here is they are being allowed to get away with it by the Government and the Opposition, including all Members, who make exhortations to people to help the national effort.
The Leader might allow us to have an answer to that by inviting the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Ryan, to the House.
With regard to what is happening in the Supreme Court concerning the status of the unborn, we have discussed this matter ad nauseam in both Houses, and on Committee Stages in this House. The fact that we have not legislated for IVF treatment in this country has been highlighted. The Leader should take the matter back to the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney. Since 2005, she has stated she would make this a priority. Nothing has happened, to the detriment of women who have received the treatment in this country since then.
With regard to the issue of national government, the Leader might tell us what ministries he would like the Opposition to take care of in such an event.
Since I called the Order of Business today, I have been informed by the Government Chief Whip in the Dáil that the Minister is requested to attend that Chamber for the vote at 1.30 p.m. I propose that at that time we suspend sitting for 20 minutes to allow the Minister to attend the vote.
On a point of order, I thought we had dealt with this before. I thought there was an acknowledgement by the Government that when a Minister is on business in the Seanad he or she is automatically paired. I apologise for interrupting the Leader.
That was the situation but, apparently, the automatic pairing of a Minister visiting this House is not available to Government at present.
Is the Cathaoirleach informing me the Opposition parties will not allow a pair?
That is my information.
That is appalling.
I do not wish to get involved in what goes on in the other House. That information has come to us.
Previous information stated it was not even requested.
The Leaders and Whips will try to correct the matter. I understood the situation to be as Senator O'Toole described. In fairness to Senator Cummins, we had an understanding that pairing happened when requested. I got an instruction from the Government Chief Whip and Senators will know that I must take instruction with regard to these matters. With the permission of the House, I propose that we have a sos from 1.30 p.m. until 1.50. p.m., if that is agreed.
On a point of information, the last time we had a situation like this in the House, I checked with the Opposition Whip in the other House, and there was no request for a pair. I wish to clarify that. The situation may have changed in the meantime but I speak of past experience.
Perhaps the Whips may be able to sort out the matter. The Leader has requested a sos from 1.30 p.m. until 1.50. p.m.
I also propose, with the permission of the House, that the Minister will be called upon at 3.45 p.m. and will have 15 minutes to respond to points made by Senators.
Senators Cummins, O'Toole, Hannigan, Ó Murchú, Coghlan, Harris, Ormonde, Healy Eames, McCarthy, Regan, Buttimer and Ross expressed their serious concerns about the economy, especially with regard to the new unemployment figures. It is a serious and difficult time for all of us in the Oireachtas, and for the people, in particular those who are unemployed and those who have been let go, especially people who never experienced this before. We must be confident that the measures announced by Government in the past 48 hours are the start of what will be the corrective path to assist these people. As Senators have noted this morning, our priority must be the creation of jobs. Senator Keaveney asked for a debate on innovation and the role of the entrepreneur. That must be our preoccupation. Senator Ross is correct. The ESB is not leading by example in any national sense. I heard the interviews on the radio this morning. The Minister said he expects energy costs will be reduced to double digit figures. They are unsustainable now.
Senators
Hear, hear.
They are 30% higher than they should be. The Government has a duty to ensure those who are in employment are given a level playing field with regard to the cost of energy. There are many very decent people employed in the ESB who always answered the call in all kinds of emergencies. I compliment them and acknowledge their actions. They have one of the top best-serving chief executives our country has ever had. However, in the national interest, the gesture is required. We are all in this together to help and do everything we possibly can to maintain the jobs that are there and to support those who are unfortunate to be unemployed. Energy cost is a major contributory factor. After wages, insurance costs used to be the second largest expenditure on the balance sheet but now energy costs are in that position.
I can tell the House at first hand that energy costs have increased by 50% in the past 12 months for most businesses in Ireland. Domestic energy costs have increased even more. This hits everybody in society. One the one hand, I compliment the ESB, and the workers were entitled to the increase, but a gesture is needed in the national interest and I call on the ESB to do that. As Senator Ross correctly pointed out, as soon as one organisation thinks it can get away with this, it is human nature for others to follow. The example has been given, and it is not the one we need.
Senator Hannigan spoke the great work done by the Irish Film Board. He congratulated Pat Shortt and all his team on the film "Garage" and the great acknowledgment of our country. I have supported this industry all my life. I know many who participate in it and live on a wing and a prayer most of their lives. They got very little from the State, and did not want anything, but they are great innovators and entrepreneurs whom we should support. I will pass on Senator Hannigan's views to the Minister after the Order of Business.
Senator Coghlan called on me to ascertain the date of the refinancing of the banks. The Minister will be in the House this morning and I suggest all those questions be directed to him during the debate on the economy. He will be able to give up-to-date information on that, and on pension entitlements and what we will do for people who have been making contributions all of their lives in good faith to pension funds, whether private or public. A whole new look is urgently needed, particularly in light of the Waterford Crystal debacle.
Senators O'Toole, Norris and Mullen all welcomed the good news and good wishes were extended across the board by the Independent Senators to each other. We are all very happy for them. The Holy Father will intervene and assist them in any way he can.
I am afraid I would not feel in a position to accept his divine intervention.
It needs somebody of his power and strength at times to help the Members who have made such marvellous contributions here down through the years from the Independent benches.
I did that entirely unaided by the Pope.
Regarding the article by his local Deputy which Senator Norris outlined to the House, articles are published in magazines to promote the magazines and get people to read them. I could not think of anybody more popular or deserving of the credits than probably the most successful Taoiseach the country has ever had. He should be acknowledged.
I thought the Leader was talking about the Holy Father.
The people of Ireland must be allowed to be reminded of the good old days, which are only a short time ago.
He is the real Pope.
Senators Norris, Ormonde, Healy-Eames and Mullen expressed their serious concerns regarding human rights issues and everything pertaining to them. I can pass on their strong views to the Minister. The Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, was to be in the House this week but, as we know, he has accompanied President McAleese to the Gulf. I have another date arranged in the Minister's diary. On Tuesday last the Taoiseach and Government made an extra allocation of funding to the Department of Education and Science and the Minister.
Senators Keaveney, McCarthy and Callely called for the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Coughlan, to come to the House to discuss innovation and entrepreneurship. At that discussion or perhaps today, the spokespersons should make an issue of the concerns we heard this morning on the radio and in the newspapers regarding the low level of students taking up science and maths. I will be guided in this House on how we can play our part. When I was Chairman of the enterprise, trade and small business committee I proposed that an extra 50% of marks should be given in the leaving certificate to encourage students in maths and science to take these two subjects because this is where the high end jobs will be in the future when the global economy begins to pick up.
Senators McCarthy and Buttimer called for a debate on the sports capital programme, the success of which has been fantastic. Every parish in Ireland has benefited over the years from the national lottery funding. I very much admire the Minister, who has been very willing to come to this House in all the portfolios he has held as Minister or as Minister of State. If I had a criticism of the Minister it is that if I were in his shoes I would not have announced the funding until early this year because he got very little credit and thanks for it. Now he has to say truthfully and honestly the funding probably has to go to health. He says it is going back into the Exchequer. However, those of us who are here a long time know it is probably going into the health portfolio because that is where the money is needed most. We have to understand that. The use to which the national lottery funding has been put throughout the country has been immense. We have seen it in all voluntary organisations. I ask the people of Ireland to continue supporting the national lottery because if the funding is going to health it is going to an equally, if not more, deserving cause in the circumstances in which we find ourselves.
I will pass on Senator Callely's views to the Minister regarding the particular school. However, as the Cathaoirleach has correctly pointed out, this could be a matter for an Adjournment debate when the Senator could make his very worthy case. I will have no problem holding a debate on Senator Mullen's serious concern regarding what is taking place in the courts regarding human embryos. Private Members' time is coming up for the Independent Members in a few weeks' time. If legislation does not allow us to take it in the House, perhaps Senator Mullen can discuss this with his Leader and see how this can be achieved.
Senator Buttimer called for the Taoiseach to come to the House. I discussed this with him during the Christmas recess. He is very anxious to avail of the opportunity to come to the House and I have asked him to update us on North-South affairs, which was always the subject of the visits to the Seanad by previous Taoisigh of all Governments. I hope this will happen as soon as possible. Senator Twomey made a point and I will pass his strong views on to the Minister after the Order of Business.
Order of Business agreed to.