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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 18 Feb 2009

Vol. 193 No. 16

Middle East: Statements.

I thank Seanad Members for tabling this matter for discussion. Considerable interest, concern and outrage have been expressed in the Seanad at the tragic events that have taken place in the Middle East and, in particular, recent developments in Gaza. There can be no doubt that what has happened in Gaza was a tragedy that should not be repeated. Today's debate is opportune because the dreadful events that have taken place since Christmas have reminded us of the very high stakes involved and the continuing potential for shocking violence. The region is a tinderbox and is ready to explode at any moment, and the real victims are innocent people who merely want to get on with their lives.

The events also demonstrate the very high price of failure if this seemingly intractable conflict is not resolved. This may be a critical year in terms of determining whether we can build momentum towards peace and find a new way through the many interlocking problems which have frustrated all efforts thus far.

I do not wish rudely to interrupt the Minister of State but I wonder whether a script is available.

I ask the Senator to excuse me for the bad habit of a lifetime. I was writing my speech until five minutes before I entered the House.

That gives it greater relevancy.

A copy may be available of an earlier draft but I will be departing significantly from it. Senator Norris will be aware that when I sat in this House as a Senator I held strong views about Ministers reading scripts prepared by civil servants.

The Minister of State never had a difficulty with free-ranging contributions.

The agenda for 2008 set at the Annapolis conference in December 2007 committed Israel and the Palestinian Authority to work together to reach an overall agreement within the year. Few were surprised this ambitious target was not achieved but if we are not ambitious we will never make progress. The Israeli Government and the President of the Palestinian Authority pursued direct negotiations throughout the year on the final settlement issues. Particular credit is due to the latter, given the grave difficulties he faced internally. While there was undoubted frustration, particularly on the Palestinian side, that the talks did not proceed more quickly, it was generally acknowledged that some headway was being made. Perhaps the most heartening sign was that so little detail emerged. For once the parties seemed to be focused on making progress rather than preparing for the blame game.

Another very positive sign was the recommencement under the aegis of the Turkish Government of proximity talks between Israel and Syria. Incidentally, the Turkish Government is entitled to considerable credit in particular in terms of its attempts to bring Syria and Israel together. It has revived a track that has lain dormant since 2000. Clearly, Syria must be part of a long-term solution given its interest in securing the return of the Golan Heights and its relationship with more rejectionist Palestinian elements. There remains serious clouds on the horizon, notably, the continued isolation of Gaza, which is unacceptable and causes concern to every civilised Government. A second issue that arises is the rift on the Palestinian side between Fatah and Hamas and the continuation of Israeli settlement building on the West Bank and in east Jerusalem.

There are some grounds for believing that events might be moving in the right direction although these have received a setback in the violent conflict of Gaza. Three weeks of violent military action left more than 1,300 people, caused massive destruction and left an estimated 40,000 people homeless. Both sets of negotiations have been suspended; any emerging trust between the parties has been seriously damaged and our attention is now focused primarily on the humanitarian needs of the people of Gaza. I do not seek today to replay the causes or course of the Gaza operations as the matter has been already discussed by both Houses and in particular in this House. Government Ministers and Oireachtas Members from all sides have received many representations from the public which, incidentally, is a testament to the strong views of the Irish people on this matter.

Israel and its representatives have strongly defended their action as the only course left open by the repeated attacks on their cities by missiles fired from Gaza and by Hamas and other militant groups. Ireland, in its response to the unfolding events, made clear that the firing of missiles at Israeli civilian targets was completely unacceptable. The ferocity, scale and extent of the Israeli military response was, in our view, entirely indefensible and completely disproportionate.

The Government's views on this have been made clear. The use of such a degree of force and, in particular, the use of heavy weapons such as phosphorous in built up areas is completely unacceptable. Regardless of what efforts were made to minimise civilian casualties, in these circumstances, large-scale damage and civilian deaths were simply unavoidable and inevitable.

We have also drawn attention to specific aspects of the operation, including the use of incendiary munitions and the attacks on UN facilities. I pay tribute again to the director of UNRWA operations in Gaza, Mr. John Ging, and, through him, to all his staff who worked so hard during the crisis and who were exemplar in terms of the humanitarian effort. The Government, through the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Martin, has raised questions about the legality under international law of some of these actions. It needs to be said that the firing of missiles on Israeli towns is, beyond doubt, a breach of international law. The breach of law by a terrorist group or a group that has been or is in the process of moving away from terrorism cannot be an excuse for a Government to also breach international law.

Large-scale fighting in Gaza came to an end with unilaterally declared ceasefires on 18 January, which we all greeted with relief. However, the truce is fragile, which should give us cause for concern. The fragile truce is continually endangered by low level breaches. As this is a tinderbox region, even a small incident can escalate quickly into major violence. We are concerned that a simple de facto truce could not last long. Talks brokered by the Government of Egypt, which has played a very significant role in all these events, have sought to bring about a more lasting agreed ceasefire and to put in place the necessary elements identified in UN Security Council Resolution 1860 of 8 January, including full and sustained opening of border crossings and an end to all rocket attacks on southern Israel.

There are hopeful, though weak, signs that an agreement on these terms may now be close. This would be a very important advance for securing the future of the people of Gaza, and of Israel, and to start laying the conditions for a longer-term understanding so that disaster does not recur every year or two, as has been the case in this region. I appeal today to the leaders on both sides to put their people first and to give peace a chance to blossom in an arid region. Everything is worth doing if it leads to agreement. There is no doubt that in the long term the solution will not be found at the end of bullets or guns but through talks. People who wish to live in close proximity must talk to each other. It would be tragic if this ceasefire, like that of June 2008 which lasted for six months, were seen by some leaders principally as an opportunity to reload and prepare for a future conflict. That would be condemnatory of the motives of both sides.

There are continuing serious concerns in relation to Gaza. First and foremost, the humanitarian situation continues to be fragile, with insufficient access by the Israeli authorities for humanitarian agencies and supplies. The Government again strongly urges the Israeli Government to remove the unjustified restrictions on humanitarian and commercial traffic into Gaza. These conditions create the conditions in which terrorism will grow. This comes as no surprise to us. We know what happens when people are forced to live in ghettos — it becomes a powder cake and the recruitment ground for terrorism. The lifting of the restriction should include in particular the necessary materials to allow for reconstruction of Gaza, including homes, economic infrastructure and utilities. One cannot keep a population of that size imprisoned in an area which has none of the things we take for granted in terms of civilised living.

There remains longer-term legal and political issues about the conduct of the war which cannot be simply forgotten. The Minister for Foreign Affairs has added Ireland's voice to those calling for independent investigation of some of the incidents during the war and UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has taken the lead in establishing a panel to investigate incidents affecting UN facilities. It is clear and obvious that international law was breached in those cases.

Ireland believes that events have shown that we were right last year to argue for a linkage between an upgrade in EU-Israel relations, which we support in principle, as we do in respect of all our Mediterranean neighbours, and progress on key political issues of mutual concern. It will be recalled that the Government was criticised, not in the House, but in some quarters for suggesting there must be a linkage. I reiterate that there must be a linkage if we are to improve and upgrade relations between the European Union and Israel, which I support. However, there must be reciprocal recognition of the sensitivities of the European Union in these matters.

Ireland has consistently sought to keep the international political focus on the hard work of pursuing the path to peace rather than allowing itself to be always dominated by the latest crisis, which the Middle East never fails to supply. Indeed, we need to be aware that many ill-intentioned people actively seek to distract us. However ghastly Gaza has been and however much we need to give attention to its continuing aftermath, no-one can doubt that in the long run the only way to avert a repeat of these dreadful scenes is to work actively to assist the reaching comprehensive peace between Israel and its neighbours that will serve the people of Israel, Gaza, Syria and the whole region. War serves no cause. The vision of two states living side by side in peace, which we need to keep before us at all times, is the only viable way forward.

There are many factors in flux now that will alter the dynamic of that process, for good or ill, in 2009. We await the formation of a new Israeli Government following the elections on 10 February, which could be a lengthy process and may cause further problems. It must be said that the continuing fragmentation of Israeli politics is a concern at this crucial time. While that is an internal matter, it is a reality. The key point is that the new Israeli Government, whatever its political make-up, should be encouraged to adhere to the commitments made in the past by Israel on behalf of its people, in particular the commitments made at Annapolis, and to continue to work genuinely for a settlement which is now achievable.

Perhaps just as important but even more difficult is the process on the Palestinian side. Open hostility between the Fatah and Hamas movements has played into the hands of those who do not wish to see the well-being of the Palestinian side progressed. Egypt is working from its unique position in the region to try to bring together the two sides to devise a way forward. I have seen at first hand some of the diplomatic efforts made by the Egyptians and they have not received anything like due recognition internationally or——

Or blame for their disgusting behaviour.

On this issue, I make the point they are on the right side.

We must nurture and be suitably supportive of all efforts underway at achieving intra-Palestinian reconciliation, since early progress in reviving overall peace efforts is best achieved. At a meeting between the different sides, I said one of the reasons there was such a disproportionate response was the reality that the brothers were divided, and the fact there were two sides on the Palestinian side gave encouragement for the disproportionate activity we saw in Gaza. This is the point I see as praiseworthy in the efforts of Egypt. The important criterion to apply to such a development will be to judge any Palestinian Government by its programme and its actions, rather than solely on its composition or the rhetoric of the different elements.

The third key factor, which we cannot yet judge, is the influence and engagement of President Obama and his team. It is very positive he has made it clear the US wants to have a different arrangement with the Middle East. There can be no doubt that many in the Middle East are hopeful he will bring new thinking and new commitment to the US Government's role in supporting the peace effort. It is good he has made clear his intention to pursue peace actively and aggressively. Of course, we need to recall that the new President has many other priorities, even in the region, and to remember that at the end of the day it is the two parties who must make peace on the ground. However, the EU is strongly emphasising to the new US Administration the opportunity for peace that now exists, and that US support will be vital in achieving this.

We in Ireland, and many others, have been greatly heartened by the inspired appointment of Senator George Mitchell as the President's Middle East envoy. We know the value of Senator Mitchell's work and we know the extraordinary skill, patience, ingenuity and integrity he brings to the task.

It is also vital, as the Government has consistently argued, that the EU remains fully and actively engaged in supporting the peace process, both directly and through our membership of the quartet. This can take many forms — humanitarian and economic support to the Palestinian people, to help combat the appeal of those who argue that the political process offers them nothing; capacity building in the Palestinian Administration, so that it becomes able to assume the burdens of a state; political support and encouragement to both sides; and direct assistance and engagement, such as assistance in the re-opening of the border crossings in Gaza, which is vital. This is where Europe can play a real role.

The Government is also engaged and active on Ireland's behalf. Senators will be aware that the Minister for Foreign Affairs visited the Middle East from 1 to 5 February, travelling to Syria, Lebanon and the United Arab Emirates. The Minister, Deputy Martin's, talks in Damascus and Beirut were in many ways a continuation of his visit to Egypt, Israel and the Occupied Territories in July 2008. In discussions with President Assad, Prime Minister Siniora and others, he heard their assessments of the prospects and obstacles to peace. The Minister will report on his visit to his EU colleagues at next week's General Affairs and External Relations Council.

Finally, to return to my starting point, the Minister will also attend on behalf of the Government the forthcoming reconstruction conference on Gaza which the Egyptian Government will host on 2 March. The conference is intended to provide clear political support to the Palestinian people in the aftermath of this war as well as addressing the daunting reconstruction needs in Gaza. Ireland provided €500,000 in humanitarian assistance to help the people of Gaza last month and a further contribution of humanitarian assistance is planned. The conference is also likely to be of value in identifying specific reconstruction needs and Ireland may be able to assist with this in the coming months.

Many foreign ministers, including most EU partners, are due to attend the conference, along with the UN Secretary General. This will also, therefore, provide an opportunity for discussion of the wider issues in the peace process and the region.

The problems involved in the Middle East peace process are complex and interlocking, as we all understand. There are many issues, some difficult, some intractable. The reality is we must continue to press ahead because the alternative to talk is war, and war is the least acceptable of all of the alternatives. I thank the House for its attention.

I welcome the Minister of State. As he stated, the Middle East has long been one of the world's most unstable regions. As with Ireland, the communities in the Middle East have long memories and wage war and challenge each other based on previous conflicts. What saddens me most, however, is how often yesterday's victims become today's oppressors, making so many of the mistakes that they in the past were victims of. So we come to the situation in Gaza, where old mistakes were reheated and played out as they have been for decades.

My party has been highly critical of the events in the recent Gaza war. We have called for the independent verification of all allegations of war crimes and illegal behaviour, and those who committed war crimes, whoever they are and from whichever community, should face the full rigours of international law.

I do not believe in the zero-sum game where one side can justify its actions based on the wrongs done to it. It was wrong for Israeli citizens to face constant rocket attacks. Attacks on civilians are wrong and always wrong. However, what Israel experienced does not justify and can never justify the apparent use of white phosphorus in Gaza. I say apparent not because I have any doubts as to whether it was used — the evidence is overwhelming — but the implications of its use are so serious we need cast-iron evidence. I feel this evidence is available and verified.

In that regard, I applaud the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs on its resolution passed in recent weeks. It is important that this resolution is read into the record of the House. It states:

That the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs urges the Irish Government to continue its support for moves to establish an independent international investigation into alleged violations of international humanitarian law during Israel's military action in Gaza. These include: the use of white phosphorus in densely inhabited civilian areas; the use of dime munitions; the shelling of the UN facilities, including schools which were being used as places of sanctuary by Palestinian civilians; and the question of collective punishment. The motion also urges that discussions with the representatives of countries such as Belgium, Cyprus, Sweden and Portugal who have also supported this move be maintained. That the independent international investigation also investigates: the indiscriminate rocket attacks on civilians perpetrated by Hamas and others; the alleged storage of munitions in civilian locations; the allegations of the shooting of innocent Palestinians by Hamas; the alleged use of civilians as human shields by any actor; the alleged firing of rockets from positions adjacent to UN facilities, to schools and hospitals. Furthermore, that the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs supports a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict with the objective of the State of Israel and an independent Palestinian State living side by side in peace and security and urges the Government to continue to fully support such resolution of the conflict and to take all appropriate steps in the UN, at EU level and in its bilateral international relations to promote and achieve such resolution. It also supports the International Quartet (EU, USA, Russia and the UN) in its work, and other initiatives to resolve the conflict; welcomes the appointment by President Obama of George Mitchell as his Middle East peace envoy; calls on Iran to end its opposition to a two-state solution; and commends the initiative taken by Egypt to mediate a durable ceasefire.

It is a comprehensive motion which was agreed by all sides and it should be acted upon.

We should not mince our words in our criticism of all wrongs. This means criticising the conduct of Israel in Gaza and also criticising Hamas for its attacks on Israel. The tragedy in the Middle East is that there is not one conflict but many. The risks of a conflict between Lebanon and Israel are real.

Another problem is the attempt by Iran to develop nuclear technology and the insistence of Israel that it will do all it can to stop that from occurring, which adds another complication. We must also consider the situation in Iraq and the growing Islamic fundamentalism in other states. As with other countries in the West, we face difficult dilemmas in dealing with these cases.

The Middle East has been an unstable region for centuries. Much of the instability was caused by outside interference from the great empires of the day. These interventions and regional rivalries have left a legacy of bitterness and distrust that haunt the region to this day. I hope that the peoples of the Middle East and those tempted to intervene from outside learn the lessons of history, rather than repeat the mistakes.

Like the Minister of State, Deputy Roche, I praise Mr. John Ging for his efforts. He has carried out trojan work in the region. There will be a new Government soon following the elections in Israel. I hope that the disastrous foreign policy of President Bush will be replaced by that of President Obama and the new Secretary of State, Senator Hillary Clinton. I hope the change will breathe new hope into the peace process, because if ever we needed hope, now is the time. The events in Gaza, which is such a small region, should never again be allowed to take place. That is the responsibility of all international actors in the scene. As we are short on time I will conclude.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Roche, and I am grateful for the opportunity to make a contribution on this awful crisis in the Middle East. As with everyone in the House and people throughout the country, I have been deeply shocked by the recent events in the Middle East and the impact they have had on the efforts to bring about peace. Ireland's invasion of Gaza and its disproportionate——

I believe it was Israel.

I beg the Senator's pardon.

I wish we would.

Israel's invasion of Gaza and its disproportionate ground and air assaults have caused untold human misery, devastated local infrastructure and set back peace efforts, possibly by years. The devastation, tragedy and human misery brought by Israel's disproportionate response to rocket attacks on its own people have severely damaged the cause of peace. The bombing of United Nations facilities within Gaza, including the attack on the local headquarters of the UN humanitarian effort, was completely unacceptable.

Some time ago I spoke with the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin. The Minister and the Government were right to fully condemn these acts. The Minister called for an international investigation into the alleged violations of international humanitarian law, the shelling of United Nations schools and facilities, the attacks on humanitarian personnel, the reports of using civilians as human shields, and the alleged use by Israel of banned munitions. Will the Minister of State indicate if Israel used illegal weapons in Gaza? We have heard many reports on the matter and I seek the view of the Minister of State as to the impact if that is the case.

Hamas must also instruct its supporters to stop the shameful and indiscriminate rocket attacks on the people of Israel. Any investigation must also establish if Hamas gunmen used United Nations facilitates as a shield against the Israeli offensive. Such actions are also despicable as they put the men and women dedicated to delivering humanitarian assistance in the line of fire. It is vital that both sides show restraint at this stage.

I have spoken with the Minister, Deputy Martin, since the conflict and he has agreed that Ireland will maintain its strong support for peace in the region. I welcome that during the Christmas and New Year holidays the Minister, his Department and our diplomatic staff in the region continued to closely monitor events. They played a key role in ensuring that the EU response to the crisis was balanced. The Minister, Deputy Martin, has returned to the region since the Gaza crisis and had held meetings at the highest level in Syria and Lebanon, both of which are key players in the region. He has also held discussions with the Israeli ambassador in Dublin. During these discussions we have again emphasised the need for a halt to fighting by Israel and the Palestinians to allow genuine peace efforts to get under way in earnest.

I join the Government in welcoming the appointment by President Obama of Senator George Mitchell as his special envoy to the Middle East. More than any other country in the world, we know of Senator Mitchell's commitment to peace. In the darkest days of the Troubles he showed patience and dogged determination to keep all sides at the negotiating table. I have no doubt these talents will have a positive impact in the Middle East. The fact that Senator Mitchell wasted no time in travelling to the region to assess the situation is a very welcome sign for the future. We owe the Senator a debt of gratitude in this country that can never be repaid. However, one small and practical way in which we could thank him is by actively supporting his efforts in the Middle East.

The European Union is the largest donor of aid to the Palestinian territories. The recent war has seen much of that in which we have invested bombed, smashed and destroyed. It is heartbreaking to see the work that Ireland supported bulldozed by tanks and bombed from the air. Ireland with its European partners must now re-examine how we can support the blockaded people of Gaza. It is important that the course of action decided upon is implemented to allow the men, women and children of Gaza receive support as soon as possible.

Ireland is participating fully in drawing up the EU response to the humanitarian needs of the region. I am assured the Government will be represented at key international meetings where the plans to rebuild Gaza will be discussed.

I pay tribute to the efforts of our diplomatic staff in Israel and Palestine. They worked to ensure the safety of approximately 20 Irish citizens and their families in Gaza. We must end the blockades, the siege of Gaza and the demolitions and evictions. We must open the borders to allow the delivery of building materials and humanitarian aid in the territory. There is no point in considering the past. We must look to the future and work out how to bring the two sides together. The only way forward is to get people around the table. We must encourage those involved to walk away from violence and show a real commitment to peace.

Will the Minister of State offer a view on how the Israeli elections will impact on the situation, given that there is a new President in the USA?

That is an easy question.

May I with unparalleled generosity award the last minute to my friend and colleague, Senator Bacik? The Minister of State is most welcome and I thank him for his courtesy in giving me the notes of his speech. I wish to say something about the context of this debate. It is very short and rushed. I am grateful to the Minister of State for being present. He is a person of substance and weight within Government and I hope he will carry back a message to his colleagues.

This debate is instead of the debate for which I asked. That was a debate which was originated by the motion I put to the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, which was unanimously passed and which was sent to both the Dáil and the Seanad from the committee. I confirmed that from the ante room some five minutes before this debate occurred. I understand we will be taking that perhaps next week. That is the important motion and we must repass it. I accepted some of the amendments and some of the watering down. There were some elements I did not like in it, but that is the motion which refers to the war crimes and that is absolutely essential. We are strengthening the hands of the Minister for Foreign Affairs in looking for that in the continuing negotiations. I am most grateful to my colleague, Senator Cummins, for putting the text of that on the record of the House. This will not go away, it will be taken again next week.

The Minister of State's speech, like the curate's egg, was good in parts. We are trying a balancing act. It is a pity the Minister of State could not have attended the meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs last week to hear the distinguished Israeli historian, Professor Ilan Pappé, say we should avoid this attempt to be even-handed because it does violence to the real situation. We are always trying to balance and say on the one hand, the Israelis, and on the other, Hamas. It is not an equal situation. This is colonisation and the expulsion and attempted extirpation of an indigenous people.

When the Minister of State says he supports the upgrading of the Israeli trade agreements, I wonder have we learnt nothing. How can the Minister of State support that? That is where I part company with him. I know about EuroMed, the external trade association agreement between the European Union and the state of Israel which gives preferential treatment to the export of their goods. Human rights protocols are attached to that which are not even monitored. What is the point of them? It is a blasphemy against the concept of human rights to have them there on paper while at the beginning of his speech the Minister of State makes clear that he believes there is a prima facie case that Israel is involved in war crimes, only then to say he is supportive of upgrading the trade relations, perhaps in return for some political progress. What about human rights? If those protocols mean anything they should be examined now. Had the European Union done so it could have switched that war off in 15 minutes because it imports 75% of Israel’s agricultural produce. If we had threatened that the Israelis would have changed their tone. That is why it is indefensible they should be rewarded in this way.

The Minister of State complimented Egypt. I do not compliment Egypt; I condemn it. I was there and saw what the Egyptians were doing and the shameful way in which they stopped doctors from around the world going in and held them at the Rafah border crossing. They gassed the unfortunate people in those tunnels who brought in some arms but were also bringing in medical supplies, foodstuffs, aid of various kinds and money, the lifeblood which the Israelis were strangling out of them.

I am not anti-Semitic. No one could dare accuse me of being anti-Semitic. I had an apartment there for nearly 30 years. I lived with an Israeli Jew. I know all about it. I love the civilisation. What the Israeli Government is doing there is as much a blasphemy against Judaism and its respect for life as the American regime was a blasphemy against Christianity with Bush daring — presuming — to call himself a Christian in this matter.

We have a long way to go. There were difficulties. I laugh when I hear the Israelis say: "Why did they not use the greenhouses?" What rubbish. Even in the days of Yasser Arafat, when I was in Gaza, I saw the mounds of rotting fruit and vegetables because the Israelis had strangled the area. They will not let one blade of grass be exported. It is cynical hypocrisy for them to ask: "Why did they not use the greenhouses that we gave them?" They left them nothing that was not useless and insupportable. They are using new weapons, DIME munitions. It is unspeakable. I said this was a blitz and that it was like the Warsaw Ghetto. They do not like that but that is what it is. The Minister of State's German colleagues are protecting the Israelis. I do not think the Palestinians should suffer because of the guilty conscience of the Germans. It is about time we said the Holocaust was a situation of unique horror and as such is the inheritance of all humanity. It is not the private possession of a corrupt Israeli Government to use as a shield to deflect criticism of its own gross abuses of human rights. I salute those within Israel who have had the enormous courage to stand up and the Jewish people who wrote a letter to The Irish Times. They are the people of great courage because it takes guts to criticise one’s own people.

Last autumn the Israelis knew they had to get in before Obama replaced Bush. Of course they knew they could use the situation for electoral purposes but there was a ceasefire involving Hamas, which was the legally elected government. Let us not hear about democracy unless we are able to accept internationally monitored elections. Last October, during the truce, the number of rockets had dropped from 373 to none, then the Israelis went in and murdered three people. That is what happened. I will leave it at that until next week.

I am grateful to Senator Norris for sharing his time. I regret the shortness of this debate. I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I appreciate the Government's strong condemnation of the Israeli bombardment in Gaza. It has been important and good to see the Government standing up for the rights of the Palestinian people. It has been deeply distressing for all of us to witness the murder of 1,300 Palestinians, one third of whom were children, about whom there could be no doubt that they were civilians. It is important we continue to press at EU level, and any level we can, to insist on the condemnation of the Israeli aggression in Gaza.

Will the Minister of State continue to press for Israel's accountability for its clear breaches of international law and its committing war crimes against the Palestinian people? There is no doubt Israel targeted UN schools and homes where civilians were taking shelter. Israel should be held accountable for that. Pressure must also be put on Israel through the downgrading of the preferential status of Israel's trade agreements within the EU. Those trade agreements should be used to put pressure on Israel to maintain a ceasefire to allow access for doctors, medics and other people in and out of Gaza and to allow the construction and reparation there to continue.

Last week, I spoke at a debate in the Trinity Historical Society as a last minute substitute against the motion that Israel's actions were acceptable. I shared a platform with Steven Weinberg, a Nobel prize winning physicist. He is a nice man but he argued that Israel is a liberal sector democracy.

Unfortunately, the effect of Israel's living in a constant state of siege and belligerence has been to dilute its democracy. The recent election results in Israel marking a swing to extreme right wing thinking is an effect of a failure to understand the military and technological advantage that it has as the sole democracy in that region. The humane approach to foreign policy would be the opposite of what has been happening in Gaza in recent months, and before that in southern Lebanon.

I welcome the strong position of the Government in articulating a viewpoint ahead of others. A clear signal is coming from this House that we, as the Government has articulated, believe this to be a one-sided situation that demands an appropriate response. The Government should use any opportunity it has to ensure that one-sidedness is overturned for the sake of humanity and justice.

The Minister of State has two minutes to speak.

On a point of order, I object strongly. We did not finish the last debate until after 4 p.m. I know the Minister of State was here on time and was delayed in starting to speak. I watched the debate from my office and noted that he could not finish his contribution until 4.30 p.m. This makes a mockery——

We are finishing at 5 p.m.

It makes a mockery——

I agree but that was the Order of Business we agreed.

If we are to go away to prepare our contributions and come along to find out that we have half an hour of debate——

I accept that point but it is not a point of order.

We have had half an hour of debate. I object in the strongest terms. I am very disappointed.

The Senator has made his objection and it has been heard.

This shows no respect to people in this House who work to prepare their contributions.

Hear, hear. We had insufficient time.

We had insufficient time.

We agreed on the Order of Business this morning to conclude at 5 p.m. I am afraid the Minister of State has only a minute and a half left to speak.

I too regret that the debate was not longer because it was a good debate. Senators raised specific issues which I will address. Senators Ormonde and Cummins touched on the issue of illegal weapons. There can be no doubt that weapons which are totally unacceptable were used. The evidence from John Ging, a former officer in the Irish Army, is indisputable. There was some equivocation and debate because there were no journalists or independent sources on site but we had an independent source, an Irish citizen with experience in the Army, representing the United Nations.

Al-Jazeera was there.

He had no interest in telling anything but the truth. Senator Bacik followed up by asking whether the Irish Government will continue its position on that. It will do so, because the views of the UN Secretary General must be respected. It does not matter what the outcome is, but there must be an investigation as this weaponry is just not acceptable.

Senator Ormonde also asked about the Israeli elections. I fear that these elections will have an impact on the situation. Senator Norris rightly pointed out that the Israeli elections clearly had a significant impact on what we saw. There has been a general move to the right in Israel, and there has been some fragmentation. That is an internal Israeli matter, but it will have an impact.

Senator Norris's suggestion that Ireland has been less than forceful on the issue of EU-Israeli relations rather misrepresents our position. Our position at the EU Council has always been that there must be a relationship between the improvement of EU-Israeli relations and Israeli activity in the area, and sometimes we have been on our own on this. I would like to see EU-Israeli relations improving because the precursor of that would be an improvement in the normalisation of relations between the Israelis and their neighbours.

I thank the Acting Chairman, the Minister of State and my colleagues in the House for participating in the debate. I will be proposing on the Order of Business next Thursday that we return to this serious matter, allowing colleagues to make a more lengthy contribution than the rushed effort we had today, which was not envisaged when I was ordering the business this morning. I apologise to everyone concerned in the House about this.

Let us debate the roof cladding issue now, because that is vital.

I am grateful to the Leader for his generous and practical suggestion. Since I have received an undertaking from the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs that the motion was sent to the Dáil and Seanad Offices and will be sent again, will we take this proposal to support the Government's position? That would be helpful in strengthening the Minister's hand. I particularly want to do what the Minister of State said, which is to get accountability for this prima facie evidence. If everything is in order, could the Leader indicate that we will be taking this motion?

I imagine that is a position for the Whips to take, and I will leave it to the Leader to do so.

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