The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re Draft Planning and Development (Regional Planning Guidelines) Regulations — back from Committee, to be taken without debate at the conclusion of the Order of Business; and No. 2, motion re Appointment of Chairperson of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission Statutory Provisions, to be take at the conclusion of No. 1, spokespersons having 15 minutes, all other Senators ten minutes and Senators may share time by agreement of the House.
Order of Business.
Everyone in this country is appalled by the brutal murders we have just witnessed. It is with a sense of shock and dismay that people hear the news bulletins once again full of stories of murder on the streets of Northern Ireland. To see two young men, Mark Quinsey, who was 23 years of age, and Patrick Azimkar being brutally taken from their families in this callous way is outrageous. It is a despicable act which must be condemned utterly and totally.
Two soldiers who were simply ordering a pizza were shot as they lay injured on the ground and then shot again and murdered. A 19 year old teenager and a 32 year old Polish man working for a pizza company were used as civilian shields. To see two pizza delivery men who were simply trying to make a living being murdered like this and a statement describing them as "British collaborators" is disgraceful. There should be absolutely no ambiguity about condemning this murder for what it is. These were murders, pure and simple.
Hear, hear.
There is no room for ambiguity, political ambiguity or any other explanation other than that this was a brutal murder. To hear of Stephen Carroll, a member of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, being shot dead last night as he carried out his duty is equally appalling. In a democracy every life must be valued. There is no Irish life or British life; there is human life. There are no terms such as "collaborators" or "freedom fighters". There are only decent people trying to do their jobs. There are other people trying to take their lives.
On behalf of Fine Gael, I extend my sympathies and, I am sure, those of everyone in the House to the families of the soldiers and constable. There can be no going back. These lives cannot be in vain. Those who are responsible must be apprehended and brought to justice as a priority.
On the Order of Business, I regret No. 1, motion re Draft Planning and Development (Regional Planning Guidelines) Regulations, is not being debated. I should have raised this matter with the Leader during the course of the week. Will he reconsider it? This issue has been raised by many Senators on both sides of the House. For example, Senator MacSharry raised it three or four times and I raised it. The Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security has considered planning and development legislation to accommodate and facilitate in particular tidal and similar developments beyond the foreshore. I would like a discussion on that. The metro and other infrastructural projects are going to plan and we should understand where we are going.
Regarding the appalling series of events in the past three or four days in Northern Ireland, words fail us in these circumstances. However, it is important that we state on the record that the people involved, no matter their perspectives or warped objectives, are enemies of the State, traitors to the common good and defiant of the will of the people as articulated in a series of referenda on both sides of the Border——
Hear, hear.
——and supported by Governments in both jurisdictions. Having spent 25 years trying to scramble our way out of chaos, we must stand together against those who attempt to plunge communities back into it. It is not the time to focus on minor differences of opinion.
We must take certain positive aspects from the events. We must recognise that all political parties, North and South and in the UK, have a similar view in that they are all opposed to and have condemned the actions. We should not get into further detail in that respect. Those parties, elected by their communities, have articulated their views and there can be no gainsaying that fact. We should send out a call to stand together irrespective of on which part of this island or the next island we live. Protestant and Catholic, Unionist and Nationalist, Irish, Northern Irish and British should stand together in a solid phalanx against the evil influence that is trying to divert the course of peace on the island. By the North and South working together, ordinary people can be given the confidence to know that there should be no shelter, support or cover for or rationalisation of these disgraceful acts of violence, in which two working class English soldiers, a European pizza delivery man and a young man from County Westmeath who was working for the Police Service of Northern Ireland were shot by unthinking, unforgiving people. It is not acceptable to anyone on any part of this island.
Senators
Hear, hear.
As a graduate of the faculty of engineering and architecture at UCD, I am well aware of the problems facing many graduates in the construction industry. They are borne out in today's figures for CAO applications, which show a considerable decrease in the number of people applying to study architecture and engineering in college.
Last week, I called for a debate on the issue of apprentices in the construction industry. Will the Leader extend that to a debate on the future of architecture and engineering students? While we are in the depths of an economic downturn, it is important we do not lose sight of the fact that when we come out the other side we will need trained engineers, electricians and architects. Will the Leader arrange a debate in the House on that issue as soon as possible?
On a bright May morning ten months ago, I was lucky enough to attend the opening of the Battle of the Boyne commemorative site in Oldbridge in County Meath, which was attended by the then Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, and the then First Minister, Reverend Ian Paisley. We all believed on that day that there was a new dawn. The banks of the Boyne never looked as bright and a future of peace and prosperity beckoned. The events of the past 48 to 72 hours in the North, however, have filled us all with despair and disgust. I do not know from where the people in question believe they are receiving support as it is clear they have no support from anyone in this country. Their acts are traitorous and treasonous. Apart from passing on our best wishes to the families who have lost their loved ones, I guarantee that everything will be done on this side of the Border to ensure their killers are brought to justice. Those people have no role to play in the future of this country.
On the Order of Business, perhaps Members should have a debate on planning and development as notwithstanding that the motion before the House is to be taken without debate, as Senator O'Toole noted, this is an important issue. I have called for such a debate previously and when considering the future, in which there obviously will be much less construction, it will be important to consider the issues pertaining to planning, perhaps with a view to relaxing certain restrictions in rural and regional Ireland in particular.
I also call for a debate on public procurement. I acknowledge that Ireland has obligations, as a full member of the European Union, in respect of participating in the various tendering processes and in advertising any public works in the EU Journal. However, we are in extraordinary times at present and such times require extraordinary measures. I ask for a debate pertaining to public procurement with a view to favouring Irish tenders where possible or, in so far as is possible, to go back to the most appropriate of Irish tenders within groups of international tenders. It never has been more important to try to keep at home a certain level of expenditure and investment. I refer to the smallest of items such as, for example, the uniforms worn here in Leinster House. Although they are manufactured in Belgium at present, they were manufactured in the west for many decades before that. When such items come up for renewal, perhaps we should consider buying Irish to the extent that our European constraints allow. Moreover, I saw a report this morning to the effect that the HSE sources all of its bacon and pork products from outside this jurisdiction. Perhaps there are ways in which this issue can be examined. Our money would be best spent in supporting employment within this jurisdiction at present and Members should play a role in trying to enhance such measures.
I wish to demonstrate my complete and unequivocal support for the condemnation of the horrific murders in the north of Ireland. As Senator Fitzgerald noted, there is no British life or Irish life; there is human life, which says it all. Members must be resolute and completely united in their condemnation of such recklessness towards a peace process that has been a great success. There can be no substitute for peace and the murders and criminality that have been carried out over the past three days are to be condemned by all who call themselves reasonable people in these modern times. We have moved on from the dark days of violence of the past and it is only through democratic means that we will grow our ambitions, whether towards a united Ireland or otherwise.
I wish to add my voice of condemnation regarding the callous murders carried out in Northern Ireland in recent days. They were outrageous and despicable acts, in which two young British soldiers and one police officer were mown down and taken away from their families and the communities they were protecting. No Member will ever understand the mind-set of the criminals who carried out such callous murders. It has been an affront to the peace process, the political system and the civilisation of our country and Northern Ireland. I am sure the perpetrators have not carried out these acts on behalf of any right-minded person in this country or in Northern Ireland. They certainly have no mandate to do what they did.
Members should again acknowledge the great work that communities and political parties, both North and South, have done to achieve the peace process. Moreover, the work they continue to do on a daily basis should never be underestimated and Members on this side of the House never do so. Members also must remind themselves of and acknowledge the great work of the men and women who work on the front lines in both Northern Ireland and southern Ireland to keep the peace and protect ordinary civilians. I refer to the Garda Síochána, the PSNI, the Irish Army and the British army. It is correct that all political parties should condemn these murders because that is the political message Members must send out. They should not be protected or harboured in any way and I ask the Leader to send such a message from Seanad Éireann today to these criminal thugs, which is all they are.
I wish to share in the condemnation of the murder of the two soldiers and the police officer in the north of Ireland. I am particularly cognisant that it has been those who brought us the atrocity of Omagh who have started this cycle of violence, which must be ended immediately. In discussing this issue, we must emphasise that a knee-jerk retaliatory reaction would only exacerbate the problem. These attacks represent a blight on the body politic, a blight which has a particular resonance for the Irish because it reminds us of the potato Famine of the mid-1800s and the terrible events that followed. What these gangster terrorists are attempting to do represents a similar attack on the body politic. However, there is no going back. Peace is the only way forward and these events will not deter any of us in our resolution to go forward.
I had intended to raise several issues today. However, this is such a tragically important day that I will, like other Members, confine myself to the tragic events in Northern Ireland. I agree entirely with Senator Hanafin that these people are gangsters. Before coming into the Chamber, I heard a speaker on RTE radio claim they are not gangsters. What else are they? They operate in armed gangs to subvert the democratically expressed wish of the people of this island, North and South, and they care not a damn for the law or for family, decency or anything else. In my book at least, whatever about the views of callers to Joe Duffy's radio show, they are gangsters.
As Senator Hanafin said, these tragic events constitute yet another poisoned gift from the people who gave us the Omagh bombing. These are people who, in the words of the great songwriter Paul Brady in his wonderful song, "The Island", are "still trying to carve tomorrow from a tombstone". They have nothing positive to offer, only death. It is as though the economic disaster we are all trying to face was not enough, they have to add murder, grief and misery. As an Irishman and a representative of this noble House of Parliament, it is my view that they have dishonoured and sullied the name of Ireland throughout the world. Their actions have brought shame on the country and will have negative political, economic and cultural consequences for us all.
We do not know who the perpetrators are but we know some of their characteristics. The first is arrogance. They have decided, with no standing whatever, that they can decide who is a legitimate target. How are they legitimate? Why are they targets? Who gave them this right? Then they appoint themselves as executioners. They certainly do not obey the laws of war in this regard; there is no chivalry there. Wounded people lying on the ground are finished off with an extra shot. It is an appalling situation. Another characteristic of these people is that they are totally lacking in imagination. They apparently cannot imagine the grief that will be caused to the families of these young people.
We were all so hopeful prior to the events of recent days. Only last week we celebrated the taking down of the bomb-proof shutters from the Ulster Hall so that it could be opened up as a place where people could listen to music and celebrate. I presume it will now be closed. Once again we are hearing phrases, such as "widespread condemnation", we hoped never again to hear. I am sorry to say that those responsible for these attacks are completely indifferent to such condemnation. They are stupid people whose stupidity is shown by the fact that their actions are completely counterproductive. Why in every generation must ordinary, decent people, from both communities and on both sides of the Border, pay the price of the education of these moral imbeciles? They will eventually learn and will eventually say their actions were a mistake and were not worthwhile. In the meantime, however, decent people will have to pay for all the suffering they cause.
There is an element of posturing in some of the condemnation we have heard. The Real IRA and Continuity IRA will do this again. They will kill someone else the week after this and the following month. We will be standing around here hand wringing. While Senators Fitzgerald and MacSharry speak for me on the moral issue, we should move on because we have a moral obligation to take our responsibilities. The Chinese have a proverb that says you cannot stop the blackbirds of evil flying over your head but you can stop them making a nest in your hair. We cannot affect what happens in Northern Ireland by hand wringing and condemnation but we can affect the Republic.
We should have done more in peace time to mend community tensions. The reaction to the killings was not uniformly fast and condemnatory of a murderous attack on human beings. There was a 14-hour delay from Sinn Féin, which was caused politically by the SDLP taking a green position on the activation of the special reconnaissance unit. This drove Sinn Féin into taking a 100% green position on the 50% green position. The result was that Sinn Féin was paralysed politically in the aftermath of the killing at the weekend. That is neglecting the peace process on the part of Sinn Féin, the SDLP and ourselves for not pressurising them to mind the peace rather better. Dr. Johnson said that a man is to keep his friendships in good repair and we must keep the peace process in good repair. It was not kept in repair; we wiped our hands of it.
I ask Senators to stop posturing and to join with me in calling on the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to do what can be done. From a security point of view, we have major emergency powers legislation available. I will not mention the "i" word because Senators are already preparing their speeches about how we should not ratchet it up and we must not overreact. I expect to read an exclusive interview with the Real IRA next Sunday explaining it all away. I have been through all this in my lifetime, with the bleeding heart stuff and the apologias. To those who are preparing speeches about not ratcheting it up, we have a moral obligation to shut down the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA on this side of the Border. We can do so because we know their names. The police and security forces and the Garda Síochána know their names and there are only 100 of them. They use safe houses, they have friends and relations and we can shut them down. We can use emergency powers so that they cannot run from the North. That would at least free up the chief constable in Northern Ireland to look after the security situation there as best he can. This will be borne on the bodies of ordinary policemen, Catholic and Protestant, over the next months because they will die. Many more of them will die.
We must do two things, first of all by shutting down the security situation. I will not use the "i" word but I remind Members that internment never failed in the Irish Republic.
Senator Harris has used it now.
It worked in 1922, it worked in 1939 and it worked in 1956. It failed in Northern Ireland but never here. We should put it to Sinn Féin that in the upcoming by-elections, unless they stop using weasel words and unless they come out cleaner and faster in their condemnation, they will pay a political price in the Republic for their weasel words.
On a point of order, I do not believe for one second that anyone in this House was guilty of posturing and I ask Senator Harris to withdraw that suggestion.
A point of order must be on procedure. The Senator has already contributed.
I said there were bleeding hearts in this House who would try to stop the security measures I proposed.
Senator, please. I am calling Senator O'Reilly.
I come from a Border county and have three young boys in school in a Border town. We breathed a collective sigh of relief ten years ago when the peace process was unveiled and the events of recent days have been greatly traumatic for those of us in the Border area, as they have been for the rest of the country. It has been particularly traumatic and disturbing in our area that these atrocious, reprehensible murders have taken place.
Those who perpetrated the murders do not have a democratic mandate. On top of this, they do not have the right to appoint themselves arbiters of the country's destiny or executioners. They do not have this right in moral law nor do they have a democratic basis for that.
There must be significant co-operation between the police forces on the two sides of the Border to deal with the issue. We must literally seal the Border. I ask the Leader of the House to speak immediately with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform after this session to ensure that even if there is disruption, every cross-Border movement is checked. The Border should be checked and sealed off. There should be very rigorous support of the Garda Síochána for the activities of the police force in Northern Ireland. There should be no ambiguity or lack of co-operation in the matter. There must be an open, transparent and high level of police activity on this side of the Border. Will the Leader specifically ensure that happens and is visible in the coming days?
My next remarks are distinct from those of my learned colleague, Senator Harris, for whom I have great personal regard. To be very fair to the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister in Northern Ireland, as I was coming up today in the car the Deputy First Minister, Mr. McGuinness, very unequivocally condemned the murders and asked for co-operation with the PSNI, which should be welcomed. It was a very clear statement.
We need a very visible, open and outward sign of police support on this side of the Border and police activity along the Border. People must be apprehended. In so far as Senator Harris is correct that the names are known to police, there should be follow-up activity and people's movements should be checked. A huge effort should be made on the part of this State. It is a crucial time in the history of the State and morality, Christian and religious ethics and the social and economic future of our country depend on this. Will the Leader seek a specific meeting with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and ask for that level of activity?
When the peace process was brokered — we commend all those who participated in that — how many people said at the initial stages that it was not possible, that divisions were too deep-seated and that agreement was not possible? Thanks be to God those people were wrong. When Sinn Féin and the DUP, who were at opposing ends of the political spectrum, came together to form a government in Northern Ireland, every right-thinking person on all sides, North and South, heaved a sigh of relief.
What happened in the murder of those three people and the attack on the two innocent people delivering pizzas was reckless. The operative word is "wreck" as that is what those people are trying to do; they are trying to wreck the peace process. It is up to every right-thinking man and woman of all persuasions, irrespective of which part of this island they live on, to do whatever they can in encouraging our security forces, the Garda and the Army on this side and the relevant forces on the other side of the Border.
This act has served nothing. The three people who were murdered were reared by mothers. They were human beings and there is no case whatever to be made for their murder. It was a heinous and dastardly act, and no words of mine could describe how evil those people must be to have conceived such a reckless act of disregard for human life.
I join in the sentiments expressed by my colleagues in condemning the outrages of the past few days in Northern Ireland. We have often had debates about terrorism and the need to understand its causes, while never condoning the acts of terrorists. In truth, it is very difficult to have that debate in this context. It is impossible to understand that after all the painstaking work of the peace process and having achieved the current arrangements, which are an honest and hard won expression of the aspirations of the different communities in Northern Ireland. In light of all that, it is difficult to understand why this is going on and how it can go on.
In truth, we need to contemplate the reality that there is a battle between good and evil in our world. The line between good and evil runs down through the heart of every person. When we say these people are sick psychopaths, we do not use such words to try to find a term of abuse for them but to try to sincerely diagnose the problem in as objective a manner as possible. All in this House feel united about the need to do whatever is necessary, whatever is in our power to do, but we also feel, if we are honest about it, a deep sense of impotence because we know there is no easy solution, given all that has been done. However, we know we must redouble our efforts to be united in the face of such evil. We must work to educate our young people on all sides of the Border that this road leads nowhere.
I fully commend what my colleague, Senator O'Reilly, said about the need to keep that Christian ethical core at the heart of the debate because that is the tradition we all share on this island. We need to delve into that now as we seek to respond to such evil and prevent it from happening. We also pray and hope, to paraphrase the words of O'Casey, that the hearts of stone of these perpetrators could be taken and replaced with hearts of flesh.
I request a debate on a more mundane but nonetheless important matter, that of education. The National Competitiveness Council published a report today. It indicates some important points and some challenging points. It calls, for example, for the introduction of bonus CAO points for mathematics and new efforts to ensure students are rewarded for taking higher level mathematics. It stresses the importance of computer and information technology in our schools, something I have stressed here previously in calling for a trebling of the budget for ICT in schools. It stresses teacher quality and the need to recognise outstanding teachers and to reward them through the promotion system.
I attended when an interesting contribution was given by Mr. Don Thornhill, chairman of the National Competitiveness Council, in his address to the National Association of Principals and Deputy Principals the other day.
We do not want to go over any contributions that were made at any conferences.
He made one challenging and somewhat provoking observation when he suggested — as this report also suggests — that cutting class size will not necessary benefit students. That is something to which the Irish National Teachers Organisation is profoundly opposed. While not denying that this is a provoking statement, it is something we need to reflect on and we need to have this debate. As we face into hard choices and some of them will be nasty choices around cuts, we need to have an honest debate about what is working well, what is working badly and the matters that must be prioritised and those that should not be prioritised.
The Senator has made his point.
Without prejudging that issue, I call for such a debate in the context of a debate on education.
I support the other strong voices of Senators in the Chamber who condemned the brutal attacks and brutal murders in Northern Ireland at the weekend. We have become so accustomed to peace in the North of our country that we could not believe our ears when we heard of those murders. Even this morning when I heard at 7 a.m. that there was another murder, I thought that one of the men who was injured on Saturday's night's attack might have died. I could not believe that there was a second attack.
In condemning these brutal murders, I commend Senator Harris on his contribution. I do not suppose there is any other Senator who has the same experience in regard to Northern Ireland as he has. It is important to point out, and I say this as a member of the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body, that since I began serving on it seven years ago, we do not talk about the Troubles in the North; we examine other issues in terms of building the North and moving forward with the peace process.
The Good Friday Agreement will be 11 years old next month. Perhaps Senator Harris was right, perhaps we had taken it for granted and had taken our eye off the ball when we should have been protecting and minding it. Perhaps this is a wake up call and we will protect and mind it again. It is interesting to hear the British Prime Minister, Mr. Gordon Brown, and the Taoiseach saying that no small group, regardless of how powerful it is, will be allowed to ruin what we have fought so hard to gain. Many lives were lost in trying to gain our peace process. A Senator on the opposite side has said there is no mandate for these people. I ask the Leader to send a clear message and let that small group know there is no shelter for them on this island, North or South. I agree with Senator Hanafin that there is no going back. There is nothing to go back to but more death, hurt and pain. There is an onus on everyone in this Chamber today to expose those who have carried out these brutal murders. I ask whether it would be in order for the Leader to write a letter on behalf of Seanad Éireann passing on our condolences to the families of the three murdered security officers.
I fully endorse what Senator Harris said and I agree with him about posturing. The priority is that these people should be apprehended and brought to justice. The Continuity IRA has stated that as long as there is British involvement in Ireland its members will continue to murder people. The Senator is correct that there will be further murders. These people seem to attach no value to life. Even after the British soldiers had been shot, they were shot again. I have a 23 year old son who is the light of my life and I cannot imagine what it must be like for the poor mothers of those murdered. They were scheduled to go on a tour of duty that they thought would be dangerous but they never got that far. They were shot in cold blood on our soil, in our country. I abhor the idea that they can send a coded message to a newspaper stating that as long as there is British involvement in this country they will continue. We need to be very firm on the notion that there might be safe houses or any succour for these thugs in our country. It is a message that should go out loud and clear from this House.
Other than that I do not know what else we can do. We must condemn the action. I agree with Senator Harris that it took a long time for the so-called political representatives to come out. They did not deny it, they said they condemned it, but they did not say anything about the poor unfortunate pizza delivery lads. The implication was that they were aiding and abetting the people in the North. It is an absolute crime.
I agree with my colleagues in condemning the brutal murders in the North. I extend my sympathy to the families of those murdered and injured. The exercise is purely to derail the political process and put down a trap to lure the British troops back on to the streets. As many have said, there is no going back. As Senator Harris said, if the names are known, and they are known, they should be rounded up. There must be co-operation on each side by the police. Those people must be rounded up. There is no going back and that is reflected. I do not know what more I can say. Those people are a different breed. They will not listen to what we say today. They are not interested in what we are saying. They would have a big laugh at that. We must take action, and the only way to do that is through police and military co-operation North and South. That is the only way forward. I endorse many of the points raised by Senator Harris this afternoon.
On another issue, I call for a debate on the reform of education and training, which was mentioned in today's report of the National Competitiveness Council. It is a very good report which highlights areas where new courses will perhaps have to be introduced to reflect the skills shortage, and new ideas will be needed in regard to how we attract young people to become more involved in mathematics, science, investment and technology. As has been said, while the lack of input into CAO courses in engineering and architecture is a sign of the times, we must not deflect from future growth in employment in that area, which must happen.
The report is worthy of debate in the House on how we move forward and how we implement its good aspects. I ask the Leader to fit this into the agenda at some time so we can debate the report.
I join with colleagues in condemning in the strongest possible terms what has happened in the past few days in Northern Ireland. I agree with Senator Harris that in the peace process in the past ten, 15 and even 20 years, if one goes back to the Anglo-Irish Agreement, words have been very important in progressing matters. However, we have moved past words and in terms of dealing with these thugs; it is actions we need to put into place. I agree with Senator Harris that there needs to be a relentless pursuit of these people and there can be no hiding place for them on this side of the Border. Other Senators have spoken of a sense of impotence, to which Senator Mullen referred, and said we cannot be effective. We can be effective if we insist no shelter is given to these people.
Senator O'Reilly referred to his sons who are in primary school. I remember being in primary school in the 1980s and listening to the radio in the morning, I would hear the news about who had been shot or blown up the night before in Northern Ireland. Like everybody, I hoped we would never again have to turn on the radio in the mornings and listen to what had happened the night before.
The arrogance of these people to think they can determine who are legitimate targets — they are our political legitimate targets and we should leave no stone unturned in their pursuit. The stupidity, short-sightedness and counter-productiveness of what they are doing is evident. The people on this island have moved on so much in the past 15 years and this is an attempt to drag us back to the dark days of the 1980s in particular, which I remember from my youth.
I want to add my voice, as that is what I can do in this Chamber, but I know we can do other things outside the Chamber. We need to ensure that the powers currently in place, to which Senator Harris referred, are examined and used to ensure these thugs do not bring us back to those terrible days we thought were behind us.
I wish to be associated with the condemnation of these heinous murders that have taken place in recent days. As a member of the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body, with colleagues from both Houses, I have had many meetings with Sir Hugh Orde and other members of the security forces, both north and south of the Border. I found Sir Hugh Orde a very sensible man who knows what is happening. He warned us at our last meeting that dissident republicans were very much to the fore and were capable of carrying out the crimes that have been carried out in recent days. He is entitled to get every assistance from forces in England, Northern Ireland and here in the Republic to root out those people. They have no mandate from the people and they have no right to do what has been done in their name in recent days, which was terrible.
There is a saying in the west, and perhaps in other parts, that the darkest hour is before the dawn. On television last Sunday I saw people of different religious persuasions coming together after their Sunday services to pray, condemning the murder of those two young soldiers. That was amazing and some years ago it would not have happened. One hopes the communities will stay together now. I have no doubt that people have information concerning those who committed those crimes and they should give that information to the police and security authorities in Northern Ireland. If they are in the Republic that information should be given over and those people should be rounded up and brought to justice.
Like other colleagues, I join in expressing my outright condemnation of the brutal murders in Northern Ireland over the weekend and yesterday, and I express my sympathies to the families of those killed and injured in such a horrible way. We all thought we had gone back in time when we first heard the news. I heard it late on Saturday night and thought I was listening to an archive programme. It was so shocking and appalling to hear again the words: "Two soldiers have been killed in Northern Ireland." It brought home to all of us how fragile and precious the peace process is and how we may have come to take it for granted in recent years.
Along with colleagues from this House and the other House, I have the privilege of serving on the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. It is a wonderful privilege to serve alongside Members of the Northern Ireland Assembly and the formation of this committee was a most historic development. It brings home to us the importance of these types of initiatives in preserving the peace process. In recent months we learned just how fragile our prosperity is but we thought that even if we were not leaving prosperity to our children at least we were leaving them a peaceful Ireland, one that we were creating and developing for them. Now we know both peace and prosperity are equally fragile and precious. I join again with others in expressing condemnation and the sympathy we all feel.
I do not believe this is empty posturing. It is important that we all speak out. They may be only words but words have been hugely important both in stirring up hatred and anger in Northern Ireland and in creating peace and dampening down sectarian motivation. We cannot underestimate the power of language. It is an important and powerful gesture for us all today, on both sides of the House, to express universal condemnation of these awful attacks. If there is one sign of hope it lies in the response of the communities in Northern Ireland and in the incredible outpouring of sympathy and support for the families of those killed and injured. That is hopeful and optimistic and I believe we can build on it.
Like my colleagues, I join in condemning the brutal murders and injuries in the North of Ireland. It is very regrettable that we are here today in this fashion. Like others, I can remember the early days when there were recurring murders and injuries. Along with many other genuine Irish people, I was hurt greatly to see this regularly.
We have come a long way by negotiation and discussion. What happened this weekend could have been prevented if there had been a sharing of knowledge and intelligence, not only between the security forces but by the public giving information to the security forces. I plead with anybody who has information on what happened to let the security forces on either side of the Border know it. This is important for the future. In the past when people advised the security forces of proposed actions they prevented death and injury such as we witnessed this weekend. It is only by the sharing of intelligence that we will make progress.
I support my colleague, Senator Ann Ormonde, in her call on the Leader for a debate about the report on education and training. As we move into the arena of economic renewal and the smart economy, it is all the more important to incentivise students to take on academic interests such as those mentioned by Senator Ormonde, for instance, higher mathematics, physics and science.
I welcome the beginning of the process of consideration of the Goodbody report on the taxi industry. There are a number of ills in the industry which urgently require addressing. When the process is completed and following discussions with the industry representatives and with the Joint Committee on Transport and the Minister for Transport, I ask that the House be given an opportunity to debate the amendments to the report.
I wish to add my voice to the unequivocal condemnation of the killings in Northern Ireland. We are all shocked by these events which are a blast from the past and is something we thought we had left behind. The people killed are Mark Quinsey, 23 years of age, Patrick Azimkar, 21 years of age, and Constable Stephen Paul Carroll, 48 years of age, and one can imagine the misery that has been created for their immediate families.
I have some inkling of this because my own grandfather was an RIC sergeant who was shot in an ambush at Tourmakeady in 1922. I know from my own experience the effect this had on my father and it goes down through the generations. We thought after all the killings in Northern Ireland that time would heal and we would leave this all behind us and yet here we have to confront the same situation again.
I will make three points to show what we can do. There is no doubt that in the atrocities of the more distant past, the people responsible were seen as heroes. The atrocities of the Troubles were sanitised for the purposes of securing peace and the Good Friday Agreement. However, there are actions we can take. We can condemn such atrocities and this is what the House is doing today. We can condemn the callousness of shooting pizza delivery people because it is beyond contempt. With regard to co-operation on security measures and police co-operation in a European-wide context, we have held back from co-operation, from signing up to particular measures at European level, because of sensitivity with regard to Northern Ireland. The issue of hot pursuit is something which is adopted by all other member states and recognised in terms of mutual co-operation between their security and police services. We do not accept that principle here because of sensitivity towards Northern Ireland. We have to be honest and face up to the problems we have. The political context is different now and it allows for such co-operation. If that was the one single issue that came out of this, this Government could sign up to those type of security measures which are a general feature of police co-operation in the European Union.
I refer to the little bit of anti-British propaganda, whether at football matches or otherwise and politicians can slip into this mode. There is a tendency to have that jibe at Britain and Britishness and that type of anti-British propaganda is what gives some comfort to those who perpetrate these atrocities.
Hear, hear.
We have a responsibility and there is something we can do about it, both at security and political level.
Of course we all condemn these senseless and mindless acts which have resulted, sadly and unfortunately, in the murders of an innocent policeman and two innocent soldiers, all lawfully going about their business in the North of Ireland. We are all in agreement on this matter although we may express ourselves differently. Some are more passionate than others, as indicated by Senator Bacik. Language is, of course, important, but perhaps some of us do not express ourselves with the same depth of feeling and passion as others. That is natural, however, since there are different styles and we are all human. It does not in any way lessen our feeling of condemnation and our duty to do what is right.
I honestly say to Senator Harris that we keep our friendships in good repair and that is the way we shall go forward, of course. Since we are, unfortunately, entering this sad new era which, hopefully, will pass quickly, perhaps the Leader might arrange for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to come to the Seanad so we might have a debate and receive an update in this regard. I do not accept we are not doing everything in the South to apprehend these people whom I believe to be few in number. Perhaps their identity is known and the intelligence is good and it would be good to hear from the Minister in this regard.
In fairness, Sir Hugh Orde praised the Garda recently for helping and assisting so much, particularly in regard to the prevention of appalling assassinations in Castlewellen. I should like if the Leader could arrange for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to address this House.
Senators Fitzgerald, O'Toole, Hannigan, MacSharry, Callely, Hanafin, Norris, Harris, O'Reilly, Glynn, Mullen, Feeney, McFadden, Ormonde, Phelan, Carty, Bacik, Regan and Coghlan all expressed their shock and horror and Senator Harris of course had very strong words of condemnation as regards the events in Northern Ireland in the last couple of days. I will pass on Senator Harris's suggestions to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform at the conclusion of today's Order of Business.
I wish to join with all Senators in condemning in the strongest possible terms the murders of the two young soldiers, 21 year old Patrick Azimkar and 23 year old Mark Quinsey at the barracks on Saturday night as well as the murder of Police Constable Stephen Carroll, which took place last night. It is with a deep sense of sadness and revulsion that we learned of these despicable murders. We had all hoped the senseless violence which was utterly rejected by the people of this island, North and South, was a thing of the past. Tragically, a tiny group of people is attempting to undermine the peace and stability we have been experiencing here for the past decade. They cannot and will not be permitted to undermine the will of the Irish people on this island and the peace we have worked so hard for. This has been the greatest political achievement in living memory on foot of the Good Friday Agreement. We must stand in solidarity to ensure that violence and hatred are not allowed to triumph over peace and democracy.
On behalf of this House I extend our sympathy to the bereaved families of the men who have died and those who have been injured as well as to their friends and colleagues in the army and Police Service of Northern Ireland. I look forward to seeing those responsible being swiftly brought to justice for these despicable crimes.
The events depicted on television screens in the past three days, as Senator Bacik said, would make one believe one was watching a programme such as "Reeling in the Years". I shall certainly pass on the strong views expressed by all Senators, particularly those of Senator Harris, to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, as regards what has taken place. As Senator John Carty said, the sight of the three congregations coming together on Sunday and showing the people of Ireland the maturity that now exists in Northern Ireland has served as a shining example and hopefully will increase our determination to help in any way we can. There is no safe haven in the South of Ireland and we want that message to go out loud and clear. I wish the Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces all the support we can give them.
As we discuss the new appointment of probably one of the greatest Irishmen ever to serve the State, Mr. Dermot Gallagher, and what he did for the Good Friday Agreement, and the enormous respect he has earned both nationally and internationally, I look forward to the contributions from Senators in that regard this afternoon.
I have no difficulty in arranging a debate on planning, as called for by a number Senators. Senator MacSharry has called for an urgent debate in this regard, and I believe it is timely. Fianna Fáil Private Members' time will be coming up the week after next and we shall be including issues that colleagues have brought to my attention in relation to matters pertaining to planning issues, which are not assisting those who wish to develop and create employment against the background of the present economic difficulties. They are seeking the help of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government as regards simple understandings in relation to the Act.
Senator Hannigan called for a debate on students, apprenticeships and all of these areas, particularly in relation to the construction industry. As I said last week, I have no difficulty having such a debate. Senator MacSharry highlighted some of the problems of protecting jobs in times of economic difficulty and referred to contracts for the HSE going outside the country. The Houses of the Oireachtas have to lead by example on what may be done to assist all lines of industry and employment, particularly in times such as these. The Senator stressed the issue of public procurement in particular and I have no difficulty in arranging a debate on these issues at the earliest possible opportunity.
Senators Mullen, Ormonde and Callely called for a debate on education in light of the National Competitiveness Council report, which is published today. I look forward to allocating time for this. As I said during the debate on intellectual property with the Minister of State, Deputy Jimmy Devins, the week before last, serious consideration should be given as a matter of urgency to increasing the points for mathematics and science in the leaving certificate. This should be done as a matter of urgency because the American Chamber of Commerce has warned industry that we may not have the graduates available for meaningful employment if they do not posses the standards required in mathematics and science.
Senator Callely called for a debate on the Goodbody report on the up-to-date situation on taxis. I know he has always been very committed on this issue and I have no difficulty about time being allocated.
Order of Business agreed to.