The Minister of State, Deputy Sargent, is welcome to the House. I invite him to speak on this matter.
Organic Food Industry: Statements.
Gabhaim buíochas as an deis cainte ar an ábhar seo agus do na Seanadóirí a léirigh suim san ábhar. I thank the Cathoirleach for this opportunity to speak to the Seanad on the issue of the organic food industry. I must start by reiterating my personal commitment and that of the Government to developing the organic sector in Ireland. In the programme for Government , agreed when this Government was set up, we set a target of converting a minimum of 5% of acreage to organic farmland by 2012. This is an ambitious target, bearing in mind that less than 1% of acreage was devoted to it when we came into Government, but by no means an impossible one.
Organic food production and processing is one of the few areas showing steady growth both here at home and in the countries to which we already send most of our conventional produce. It is obvious that Ireland is almost uniquely suitable for organic farming. We are a food producing island. Most of our farming is already extensive, unlike some of the continental European countries or the USA with their heavily industrialised food production sectors. We also have our famous clean, green image abroad.
One might wonder why we have made so little use of these advantages up to now. Times have changed, however. The chemicals and pesticides used in intensive farming have become more and more expensive and at the same time their use has been restricted throughout the EU. The non-farming European public has become concerned at the impact of intensive farming on biodiversity and the environment in general. At the same time farmers' incomes have once more come under pressure from cheap imports and the relentless pressure from the retail multiples to accept less for their produce.
Thankfully, however, farmers are good at adapting — they have to be. As intensive conventional farming becomes less profitable, and with relentless competition from cheap imports at prices that no Irish farmer could match, the time has come for farmers to look for alternative ways to make their enterprises pay. One obvious answer — not the only one by any means but an obvious one nevertheless — must be organic farming and the related activity it generates in the food processing and retail sectors. We have a long way to go but, in fairness, I acknowledge the contribution of my predecessors to developing the organic sector. As far back as November 2000, the then Minister of State with responsibility for food, the former Deputy Davern, established the Organic Development Committee on foot of a recommendation in the Agri-Food 2010 report. This committee was the first forum to bring organic producers together with a wide range of stakeholders, including the main farming organisations, a number of State bodies, such as Teagasc and Bord Bia, and representatives of the retail sector and consumer interests. Two years later Deputy Noel Treacy, the then Minister of State with responsibility for food, accepted the recommendation of the Organic Development Committee that three new structures be set up.
Foremost was the National Steering Group for the Development of the Organic Sector, which was intended to act as a driving force for the development of the organic sector and a basis for advancing partnership between the organic sector and the other principal essential interests. Two other groups with a specific remit were established to feed into the work of the steering group. A partnership expert working group, led by Teagasc, was given the task of co-ordinating, facilitating and monitoring the provision of training, education, advice and research. An organic market development group, under the co-ordination of Bord Bia, was given overall responsibility for developing a national marketing strategy for organic food. These are not talking shops. Partnership is vital if the organic sector is to reach its full potential, and it is important for all the stakeholders to have forums like these to exchange views and information.
In 2008, my Department launched a new organic farming action plan to drive the organic sector forward for a number of years into the future. To put matters in context, the organic sector here is still small in the context of agriculture as a whole, but it is growing faster than other sectors. At the end of 2008 there were approximately 1,450 organic operators in Ireland with 44,751 hectares of land — more than 1% of the land area — in conversion or under organic production methods. Although this is less than the 5% EU average, it is a substantial increase on the previous few years.
The growth in demand for organic food is clearly illustrated by the organic retail market. The Irish organic retail market was estimated to be worth €104 million in 2008 compared with €66 million in 2006 and €38 million in 2003. Annual growth of 40% in 2007 and 2008 — naturally growth in this market has eased but it is still high at 11% — compares with 2.7% growth in the conventional food sector. I will cite more up to date figures. Bord Bia has calculated that currently the organic market here is worth €120 million. The issue that presents a challenge for all of us in this House and for all those involved in farming is that only about 25% of the Irish market for organic produce is met by Irish production whereas 60% of the equivalent market in the UK is met by UK production. Therefore, considerable import substitution opportunities are staring us in the face.
Current trends in the production and consumption of food here indicate that we have an increasingly health conscious consumer who demands quality, convenience and value. As the majority of organic produce sold in Ireland is imported, it is clear that there are opportunities for producers to fill that gap. I know consumers like to know where the food they buy is produced and their preference in general is for Irish produced food. Irish organic food definitely sells well.
Locally produced organic food definitely has an extra appeal to consumers. With the growth in direct selling, via farm shops, box schemes and farmers' markets, there is increasingly an outlet there for organic producers and processors to market their products locally. The development of these direct routes to market are all the more important now as producers find their margins cut or eliminated by larger retailers. I am aware that some of the large organic producers who sell through the major retailing chains have been asked to accept major cuts in the prices offered to them.
The paradox in organic farming in Ireland is that although we are self-sufficient in organic red meat and there is a huge export market waiting to be exploited — we can talk about those who are growing that export market — we have to import many of the organic fruit and vegetables we eat. We could replace many of those imports with Irish organic produce. At a recent Teagasc conference we were told that 23% of Welsh horticulture is organic, so we have much potential.
I am satisfied that a major market opportunity exists for the expansion of the other sectors, both for the home and export market. The UK organic market is worth €2.1 billion as against the €120 million I mentioned for the Irish market. Bord Bia research shows that British consumers are favourably disposed to buying Irish organic produce. They regard that as local as we talk about Irish produce being local. Recently I attended the World Organic Trade Fair in Germany where, for the first time, Bord Bia was represented. The German organic market alone was worth €4.6 billion. I am aware that those Irish organic businesses on the joint Bord Bia-BIM stand garnered significant new orders at that fair at a time when most businesses are simply trying to hold on to existing market share.
The organic food market presents major opportunities to Irish farmers and producers. The main organic enterprise at farm level is beef production. Bord Bia research shows that a major deficit exists in the UK market for organic beef. Based on the success of our existing organic exporters it is clear that the quality of our beef very readily suits that market.
While organic dairying has developed to a minimal extent to date, the feedback I am receiving from the industry indicates that a serious potential exists for expanding our organic herd. The market for organic lamb is not as straightforward. For example, while some established producers, especially those who are producing out of season, have been able to market their produce organically at a decent premium, new entrants, especially those marketing at peak season, may find it difficult to source organic outlets at present. This is an area I would like to see actively pursued by the industry and Bord Bia. Teagasc should be in a position to provide sufficient back-up to enable organic lamb to be produced in a cost-effective manner.
The current rural development programme, which runs from 2007 to 2013, clearly identifies the Government's ongoing financial commitment to the development of the organic sector in Ireland. The programme provides direct support to farmers through the new organic farming scheme. Previously, organic farmers had to be in the rural environment protection scheme, REPS, to get a supplementary organic payment, but that is no longer the case. This initiative is designed to encourage small-scale horticultural producers to convert to organic production and also to induce conventional tillage producers to convert part or even all of their holdings. Both areas are very much in deficit production-wise and there is a ready-made market for the organic product.
As a further incentive to encourage non-REPS farmers solely involved in tillage production to convert to organic farming, there is an additional payment of €240 per hectare available in the in-conversion period, up to a maximum of 40 hectares, provided they grow green cover crops during that period. This measure should be of particular interest to tillage farmers wishing to convert part of their holdings to organic production. The availability of home-grown certified organic grain is one of the main challenges facing the organic sector at present and it is hoped these initiatives will go some way to alleviating this situation.
The growth in the demand for and consumption of organic food has been clearly established. To reap the benefits of growing levels of consumption of organic food, the potential market opportunities at home and abroad must be exploited more fully. Organic farming has a major role to play in meeting the ever-increasing challenges of depleting oil supplies, climate change and the provision of a sustainable supply of food. More farmers producing organic food in Ireland would mean fewer imports, more jobs at home and less energy used worldwide.
I read with interest research on the nutritional benefits of organic food, the great employment opportunities and the resilient growth of worldwide consumer demand for organic food in spite of the recession. However the saving in oil and oil-based agri-chemical use in organic farming has the potential to feed people when oil is unaffordable and agri-chemicals unattainable. It is fitting that we are having this debate today because in 1909 two German scientists, Haber and Bosch, discovered the process which synthesised nitrogen from fossil fuels. Since then we have been producing food with dependency on fossil fuels and dining out on oil and natural gas.
We must sustain that level of production because of our population but it will require many more people to get involved in growing more food. At the time of that discovery exactly 100 years ago, before agriculture was industrialised by fossil fuel dependency, we had 1.7 billion people on the earth. Today we have 6.5 billion. Unless more people become involved in growing more food minus oil and agri-chemicals, the agricultural miracle of the 20th century may become the agricultural apocalypse of the 21st century. That is why this debate is so important. It gives us the opportunity to reflect on what it is like to grow food when one does not have agri-chemicals. We have a choice in the matter now; that may not be the case in the future.
While it is my Department's job to foster and promote all kinds of farming and food production, we recognise the organic sector for what it is: a valuable, more sustainable production system that offers real opportunities to farmers and the food sector, and real prospects to preserve and create new jobs, thus ensuring quality of life for this and future generations.
Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Today marks our second debate on the organic food industry. I welcome the debate and thank the Minister of State for being here. It is important to welcome the progress that has been made. Regarding the food industry, I am tempted to roll out the famous old Fianna Fáil slogan and change it to "a little done, tonnes to do", if the House will pardon the pun. I welcome the Minister of State's developments. The organic food industry is growing and developing and it is important that we acknowledge that.
However, this debate comes at a time when we must all wake up and look at what is happening in agriculture in our country and in Europe and at the direction in which the sector is going. It has consequences for the main Government party regarding its alignment with the liberals in the EU on the renegotiation of the Common Agricultural Policy and what it stands for on that.
More importantly, agriculture and the food industry are in a very precarious position. Many people will say they are in crisis. Farmers and farming organisations will say that morale is low and that, as a nation, we are in difficulty regarding agriculture. I acknowledge that there is potential in the organic food industry and that is important, but it is one cog in the wheel. It is not the most significant issue in agriculture today.
The House asked for this debate.
I appreciate that, and I do not refer to the Minister of State but to the fact that the main Government party is bringing this in when we should be talking about the collapse of dairy and beef prices in the industry and milk prices. On RTE's "Agriview" over recent weeks, there have been farmers, their wives and members of Macra na Feirme speaking on national radio about being in poverty. The Minister of State should look at the way milk and beef prices have gone in this country. All of us in the House are from rural farming or know people involved in it. My uncles are involved.
Senator Buttimer is talking about non-organic beef and milk.
I am talking in general.
No, he is talking specifically.
I am talking about the price. The Minister of State is focusing in and I am broadening this debate because it is on one segment of the Irish agriculture industry — organic food.
That is what I was asked to speak about.
I appreciate that but I am broadening the debate because it needs to be broadened. I understand where the Minister of State is coming from because he has a particular slant on one section of the market.
I was asked to speak about it. I have a slant on every aspect of the market.
That has not come across. The Minister of State's press releases in recent weeks refer to the deadline for applications for the organic farming scheme and the introduction of a new EU organic logo. Let us have a debate on where we are going in agriculture.
We need the Minister, Deputy Brendan Smith, here.
We need all the Ministers here. I agree with the Minister of State. The Ministers have been absent.
The Minister of State is here now.
Senator Buttimer, without interruption.
Those opposite are hiding behind the Minister of State who, to his credit——
We are not hiding behind anybody.
We are proud of our Minister.
Senator Buttimer, without interruption.
(Interruptions).
The Senators opposite can huff and puff.
Senator Buttimer is the master at it. We have a lot to learn from him.
Senator Carty might start to learn.
Keep going.
When the ballot boxes are opened on 6 June, the Irish farming sector will give those opposite a resoundingly negative response for the way they have treated the sector over the past three and half years. They should get that fact right. We will vote for Colm Burke and Seán Kelly in Ireland South and we will win two seats. Senator O'Sullivan should not worry about that.
Senator Buttimer should stick to the statements on the organic food industry.
I am trying to speak but Senators Carty and O'Sullivan are embarrassed by Fianna Fáil's record in government on agriculture.
We are not embarrassed by our record on agriculture.
They should be embarrassed by it.
Our Government gave more grants to the farming community than any party ever——
They are hiding behind a Green Party Minister of State. They should be ashamed of themselves because they have let Irish farming down for the past ten years.
We have not.
There is a crisis in Irish farming caused by the Government.
We gave more grants to the Irish farming community than any Government party in the history of the State.
Senator Buttimer, without interruption.
In fairness to the Minister of State, he is doing a reasonably good job in developing the organic food sector but the Minister does not have the presence of mind to come into the House to debate the real issues.
The Minister of State must be doing a very good job if Senator Buttimer cannot talk about him.
The real issues in Irish agriculture do not include the organic industry but others which those opposite are afraid to debate. Let us get real.
We are here to talk about organic farming.
Senator Buttimer, without interruption.
Those opposite are embarrassed and they should be.
We are not embarrassed.
They should be. Their record is quite poor.
We are very proud of our record on what we did with Irish agriculture over the past decade.
Senator Buttimer, without interruption. Will the Senator please stick to the item on the agenda?
I am doing so. I am talking about agriculture. This debate should be about agriculture linked to food. It is important we have a debate on food, enjoyment of food and where we want to go. I am a fan of Paulo Tullio who is a great person to articulate the views of ordinary people. In an article in the Irish Independent last year, he spoke about food miles. He said food transported from far off countries should be avoided in favour of local produce. He rightly made the point that it is not as simple as talking about food miles.
We are all committed to developing the organic food industry. The Minister of State spoke about increasing the market share to 5% by 2012 but said nothing about how we will arrive at that point. Currently, it is at 1%.
It is more than that.
How will we get to 5%? The Irish organic market is worth only 0.65% of the European market. The Minister of State said the Irish organic retail market was estimated to be worth €104 million in 2008. That is only a fraction of the European market share which I believe is worth €16 billion annually. Where is the blueprint to get to that point? The Minister of State did not mention it. What is the Minister of State's other remit?
Horticulture.
About what else should we be concerned? It is important we look at the roles of the Ministers in the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.
I would like to use this debate to raise the issue of men's health. I agree with the Minister of State that people are taking time to look at the quality of the food they eat, whether vegetables, fruit or meat. If, like me, one goes to one of the 24-hour supermarkets at 12 a.m., one will see many people shopping and taking the time to look at products. In the context of the debate on the organic food industry, it is important we place an emphasis on men's health. I am not being sexist but men are very slow to take care of themselves. We should link men's health into the debate on organic food and get more men involved.
I do not believe the Minister of State mentioned the cost of organic food in the shops. In some cases, it is ridiculously priced and there should be a policy to change that.
The farmer does not get that.
The Minister of State is right that the farmer does not get that. I will come to that.
We should have food festivals throughout the country to promote organic food and Irish food. During the last debate we had — Senator O'Sullivan spoke eloquently — I referred to the English Market in Cork and the Minister of State spoke about the growth of country and farmers' markets, which we need to develop.
Senator Buttimer has one minute remaining.
I was heckled for five minutes.
Senator Buttimer did much heckling.
Senator Buttimer invited some trouble.
We need to highlight the English Market in Cork and the farmers' markets in other places.
The Minister of State spoke about the importation of organic fruit and vegetables. Why is there a deficit of such food in this country? Surely, we should be able to grow and be self-sufficient in simple fruits and vegetables.
The Minister of State spoke about the prices. What is happening to the Irish farmer is appalling. Members opposite cannot condone or accept what is happening to the Irish farmer in respect of the prices they are getting.
We do not condone it.
The Minister has done nothing to help.
He is doing everything possible to help .
He is not.
He is.
Some of the big chain stores are running amok and they are being allowed to get away with it.
Why does Senator Buttimer not mention the co-operatives?
It is about time we had a debate on the cuts to the farm income. Senator Carty can smile at me but we need such a debate.
I refer to Richard Corrigan and Bord Bia. He was perhaps misguided in what he said about Bord Bia but we need to look at how we market and sell Irish food and restaurants. We have some of the best restaurants in the world and have great food but we have the potential to be better. It is important we use people who can better sell Ireland. The best way to better sell Ireland is to change the Government and appoint Deputy Michael Creed as Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. He will look after the interests of Irish farming and the Irish food industry because after 12 years Fianna Fáil has made a complete hash of it and should just go. It should save itself the indignity of being indicted by the people.
I thank the Minister of State who, unlike other Ministers, comes into the House, stays for the duration of a debate and gives a good presentation. That should be acknowledged. While we might disagree on issues politically, the Minister of State has an interest. He might be one-tracked in what he is doing but he makes an effort, unlike some of his colleagues who will not even come into the House.
The Minister of Sate is being damned by faint praise.
Before I welcome the Minister of State, I compliment Senator Buttimer on a most extraordinary speech on organic farming. He touched on nearly everything else apart from organic farming. We nearly got the half-time score of the Cork final before we heard about organic farming.
The Senator should stick to the issue.
I will stick to the issue. I welcome the Minister of State. As Senator Buttimer said, he is very fair with his time in the Seanad and always gives a very good account of himself when he comes in. I commend him and his Department on the outstanding work they are doing, especially in the promotion of the organic market. In a very difficult economic climate, it is important we use every opportunity to enhance our economy. The organic sector is more important than ever in that regard.
The Minister of State has set himself a very ambitious target in the action plan. When one sets a target, one encourages people like Senator Buttimer to pick holes in it. It is a courageous thing to do. Obviously, it is too early to see how we are progressing but perhaps there are some figures to indicate whether we are on track, ahead of expectations or a little below them. It is clear everybody will understand that it is going to be infinitely more difficult for the Minister and for the Department to realise their targets as a result of the downturn in the economy which is affecting everybody and everything. I suspect it will probably hit the organic food area as well and perhaps more so and therefore the Department will need to be ever more vigilant. Somebody once observed that organic products thrive in an affluent society. The Minister of State may not necessarily agree with that comment but organic products tend to be more expensive because their production is more costly and more demanding and the standards are higher and there is a cost factor as a result. When products become more expensive and when the economy is dipping, people will probably tend to look at cheaper options. This may be short-sighted and less than ideal but human nature being what it is, this is what will happen. Many commentators are of the opinion that there will be a downturn in an area as fragile as the organic sector, despite the best efforts of the Minister of State and his officials.
As Senator Buttimer would say, I will broaden the debate to discuss general agricultural prices. We are definitely in queer times when a farmer — the normal or orthodox farmer, so to speak — is getting €1 for his gallon of milk and it costs him almost as much to produce it and that is in good, dry weather. At the moment, with the May we have had, it has been a wet season with cattle back indoors and increased ration costs, most dairy farmers are producing milk at a loss and that is not acceptable and I know the Minister, Deputy Smith, is addressing that——
What is he doing?
He is addressing the issue. He will be in the House in due course and he will be well able to answer for himself.
Is he afraid to come in to meet the Senators opposite?
He is not afraid of anybody. The Senator can huff and puff but he will not blow our house down.
The people will do that on 5 June.
Senator O'Sullivan, without interruption.
Senator O'Sullivan is like the bridge in Listowel.
Yesterday, Tesco management were picketed by angry producers, in this case, potato producers. We will probably be seeing more such actions. I have the greatest sympathy for our producers but it is the case that we are in a free, open market. I refer to Senator Feargal Quinn's excellent book, Crowning the Customer, in which he makes it clear the consumer is king and consumers will choose and look for the cheapest and best value they can get. I am not preaching in favour of multinationals — anything but — and it is regrettable that any amount of foreign produce would be appearing regularly on the Tesco shelves but Tesco makes the point that it is the single biggest market for Irish produce so we must be fair in our comments. We will probably see more of this pattern.
I refer to the price of organic chickens, for example. These chickens tend to be larger and are therefore more expensive. The ordinary housewife whose husband has been made redundant will be watching the pennies carefully. She can buy a regular chicken for €3 or €4 and in the case of a butcher in my town she will get the chicken free if she buys the rest of her meat there. It would be very difficult for the organic chicken producer to compete in this case. It is all the more important that the Minister of State would continue with the proactive tranche of attractive grants he has made available for people in the organic sector. These grants are better than the grants available under REPS and the two are not mutually exclusive. The Minister of State is ploughing ahead with his programme in a difficult time and I believe he will succeed.
An important aspect of people's decision to go organic is the belief that such products are good for their health. Some cynics have argued there is no difference and some of them are working in Teagasc or in the general agricultural sector. It is very important that this fact is established. I ask the Minister of State if it is possible to be even more proactive on this issue. I am aware that surveys have been undertaken and I read recently about one done in Newcastle University the results of which were quite favourable for the organic sector——
It is not a survey; it is a study.
I thank the Minister of State for the correction. I would like to see more such studies and more of those results being promulgated so the general public can be assured. In my view, organic food tastes better and it is better for my health but I am not so certain that everybody agrees and it may have to be proven a bit more.
The Minister of State is to be commended for the work he has done in farmers' markets which above all else benefit the organic producer. Such markets help to cut out the middle man and help to make organic produce more competitive. The produce is presented in a friendly, happy atmosphere and the food is nicely presented and everybody is happy and people will buy there.
Senator Buttimer referred to the recent controversy about Bord Bia. I took a very dim view of the attack on Bord Bia by that particular celebrity chef. Every State board can be criticised and everyone is entitled to his or her opinion but since I took on this portfolio I have found Bord Bia to be very supportive with an excellent professional staff who are driven to succeed and driven by the desire to market Irish products abroad to the best of their ability and we as public representatives should stand up for State bodies. Bord Bia does not have an easy job and anyone can take a cheap shot. It is very unbecoming at a time of economic crisis when we as a nation should be pulling together to have a public squabble which indirectly brings into question the reputation of Irish foods. It was a disgrace and I have complete faith in Bord Bia and am thrilled to hear what the Minister of State stated in his opening contribution about Bord Bia being successful in the lucrative German market. I commend the Minister of State for taking that initiative and for going to Germany himself.
Labelling of produce has been discussed previously in the House and it is an important element which should be addressed again. Bord Bia has been proactive in this regard, as has the Minister of State. I am delighted there is now a range of sanctions against people who are rogue organic producers. The fines rise to a maximum of €5,000 and goods and vehicles may be impounded.
The UK beef market is encouraging. It is a very significant market for Irish produce, worth €2.1 billion and we can grow our slice of that market. The orthodox beef products are in competition with the Argentinian and Brazilian beef producers. We know that Irish beef is better than South American beef but the British public are quite discerning and they look for value. However I have no doubt that the discerning British customer will know that organic Irish beef is vastly superior to any beef product from the rest of the world. I commend the actions taken and I ask the Minister of State to drive that programme to the best of his ability.
Last year the Minister of State was involved in the establishment of the Kerry organic feasibility study. I spoke to the chairman of the group this morning who is a great friend of mine even though he belongs to the ranks of Tuscany, the great councillor, Johnny "Porridge" O'Connor, well known to my colleague opposite. I asked him how the study was faring as I was going to speak in the House today. He gave the study the thumbs-up and he thinks it is progressing very well. They are making concerted efforts to increase their markets and trying hard to move into the hotels and to persuade hotels to designate certain menus as being organic and to develop the farmers' markets and make them more widespread in the south west. He asked me to make one or two points to the Minister of State. He believes there is an over-abundance of red tape in some aspects of designation of organic products and maybe a little over-policing. He was quite positive in his comments but he sees a difficulty in having Kerry lamb designated as organic because to all intents and purposes it really is an organic product and is a very healthy food but because at one time in the year some artificial fertiliser needs to be used, it is not regarded as organic. I ask the Minister of State to address this issue if possible but the group is very grateful to him for his involvement and is generally very positive even though some are members of the parties opposite.
It would be very regrettable if in our new economic situation we got a dumbing down of our attitude to quality food or an impoverished thinking as regards what we should eat. I trust in and depend on the Minister of State to ensure this does not happen, and I have the utmost confidence in him.
Ba bhreá liom i dtosach báire fáilte a chur roimh an Aire Stáit. Is minic a deirtear faoi shaol na parlaiminte gur rud fíor-thábhachtach é go mbeadh daoine ann le scileanna agus taithí difriúla ar ghnéithe den tsaoil. Is cinnte gur mhaith an rud é go bhfuil duine ar nós an Aire Stáit freagrach as an réimse seo, mar níl aon amhras ní amháin go bhfuil an suim aige san ábhar ach go bhfuil an t-eolas agus an cur chuige aige freisin agus tréisigh mé leis de bharr sin.
Is ceist an-tábhachtach í seo agus is breá liom go bhfuilimid ag plé bia orgánach. Bhí mise an-tógtha leis an díospóireacht le déanaí faoi spiorad na h-Éireann, an plean seo nuair a tháinig daoine le dea-mhéin le chéile chun a leagann amach cén chaoi a bhféadimis a shocrú go mbeadh neamhspleáchas ag Éirinn ó thaobh an fhuinnimh de, go mbeadh foinsí fuinnimh ann, ní hamháin chun deileáil leis ár riachtanais féin ach go mbeimis in ann fuinneamh a easportáil, fuinneamh glan. Is é sin dea-scéal na linne seo agus tá mé ag súil go mór leis an bplé faoi seo atá eagraithe ag an Seanadóir Larry Butler.
Tá an rud céanna fíor i gcás an bhia orgánach. Nuair a smaoinímid faoi an dúshlán atá romhainn ag an am seo maidir le cúrsaí gheilleagair agus eacnamaíochta, nach iontach an rud é go raibh an t-Aire Stáit in ann teacht os ár gcomhair agus labhairt faoi na féidearthachtaí atá ann, an margadh atá amuigh ansin do bhia orgánach, agus an dul chun cinn gur féidir linn a dhéanamh? Nach bhfuilimid ach ag tosnú, nuair a thógaimid an fhigiúr san áireamh, go bhfuil meán 5% den talamh in úsaid ar fud na hEorpa agus nach bhfuilimid ach ag 1%, agus ag an am chéanna go bhfuil an lipéid sin orainn, go bhfuilimid glan agus glas? Feictear domsa go bhfuil sé tábhachtach go nglacaimid an deis ansin, mar nach mbeidh an clú sin orainn i gcónaí muna mbainimid úsáid agus dea-úsáide as.
In that context I welcome the Minister of State as a man who has a particular passion for this subject, given his knowledge and ability, and I thank him for putting before us welcome optimistic news at a time we really need it. However, it is news which carries its own warnings. The startling statistic is that 5% is the average land under organic agricultural activity at a European level and we are only at 1%. Given the reputation Ireland has as a clean green country, it seems this will not last forever unless we take proactive steps to use it to maximum effect.
What an irony of history it is that our British friends regard us as "local". Should we not have advertisements on British television, saying, "Buy local, buy Irish"? It would be a wonderful sign of our maturity if we could set aside past grievances and recognise the opportunity we have in our renewed and greater friendship with our British neighbours, take advantage of their perception of us as being local and not be in any way embarrassed about that. That would show an economic and political maturity. I note, also, the telling statistic the Minister of State brought before us that we are able to meet 25% of our organic market needs using Irish products and that the comparable figure in Britain is 60%. That tells us this is an area of massive opportunity. As the Minister of State said, the opportunity varies in particular areas, but what we must take from today's debate and continue to stress is that the importance of the debate about organic food exists on several levels. We must reflect on the cultural importance of the organic food debate, the public health significance, as referred to by Senator O'Sullivan, and of course the economic importance, which can never be far from our minds.
I should like to reflect briefly on something said by Ms Siobhan Morris, co-author of Organic & Green Guide to Ireland (2005-06), her insightful comment on organic food production where she recognises that, “In producing food we must allow space for other creatures to live alongside us”. The organic food concept recognises that we have a duty to leave the world around us in a healthy state for all our children. This concept of inter-generational solidarity should never be far from our minds. I was in touch with Mr. Sean McArdle, director of Irish Farmers’ Markets, who points out what we all know, that there is a great demand for organic food, particularly fruit and vegetables, but also wheat, as he specifies. People, as we know, are cooking at home more and not going out to restaurants as much. That presents its own challenges, of course, for other areas, but he has noticed an expansion of that trend, even in the past few months, which will not surprise us. He points to the demand that exists for home produce and says people are rightly questioning where their food is coming from and want to do their bit in contributing to national economic well-being by consuming Irish-grown products. That is not jingoism, but a mere healthy sense of survival and mutual dependency. Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireann na daoine.
Mr. McArdle also points out that we worry about price as regards organic goods, but he says it is 5% to 6% cheaper to buy in farmers' markets as there are no packaging or storage costs to be taken into account. He makes positive comments, as might be expected, as regards the relative price advantage to be enjoyed at farmers' markets. We all welcome, from a cultural as well as an economic viewpoint, the presence of farmers' markets.
The Minister of State may think I am barking mad to mention an organisation called WWOOF Ireland.
Never.
For those who do not know it, WWOOF means either "willing workers on organic farms" or "worldwide opportunities on organic farms". This is an organisation——
It looks to me like a shaggy dog story.
No, and as I said I am not barking mad bringing it up, because there is a very good——
I was one of those soldiers.
I am delighted to hear it. So too was Mr. McArdle of Irish Farmers' Markets. The Minister of State will know, therefore, that WWOOF is a worldwide network which started in the UK in 1971 and has become an international movement that helps people share more sustainable ways of living. People will work on farms, free gratis; the payment is not monetary, but of course there are many other forms of compensation. Hosts provide food and accommodation, they get the benefit of assistance on the farm and share their knowledge and experience of organic and sustainable lifestyles with what are known as "wwoofers".
For the last ten years the Republic of Ireland has been represented by WWOOF Independents and in Northern Ireland by WWOOF UK, but I am glad to note that from 2009 WWOOF Ireland represents all of Ireland, and it is appropriate it should get the acknowledgement it deserves for the good example it sets. I want to note and compliment the work of various organisations such as Bord Bia and Teagasc and in particular the organic farming action plan for these years presented by the Minister of State. I also want to note in particular objective 2 of that, which talks about increasing the knowledge base in organic food and farming. Certainly, the 153 registered hosts with WWOOF in Ireland could have a valuable contribution to make in this area of training.
While I am on the subject of training, I come from a part of County Galway with which the Leas-Chathaoirleach will be very familiar. I went to school in Mountbellew, where we are fortunate to have an agricultural college that is very well regarded. Because of cuts in funding, however, we will only have three full-time colleges, in Cavan, Kilkenny and the Botanic Gardens and there will be ten or 12 part-funded colleges, including Mountbellew.
I am aware of the economic difficulties and circumstances that cause these types of cuts to be made, but in commending the proposal to provide training, retraining and upskilling for people to become successful organic farmers in existing agricultural colleges, I wonder whether we are going along the right track when cuts are being made in agricultural colleges such as Mountbellew, which I believe to be the only one in the west. However, in that regard I am sure the Minister of State has a plan to ensure the necessary training is available so there is no delay, bac or constaic as regards training people in the skills and knowledge necessary for organic farming. It is, nonetheless, a point that deserves to be made in passing.
Rath Dé ar an obair, although it is not all going to be simple. There are issues of price differential and the operation of supermarkets. My distinguished colleague, Senator Feargal Quinn, may not agree with everything I have had to say on this subject.
The more we talk about the cultural, public health and economic importance of organic food, the better for ourselves. it is good that there are markets for organic food but we must do our best to supply those markets and to do so soon. The present opportunities will not last forever. We need to take advantage of them. Caithfimid an deis a thapú agus leas a bhaint as na féidearthachtaí atá ann, maidir le feirmeoireacht orgánach.
I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Sargent, to the House to discuss this important issue.
The organic farming action plan, to which the Minister of State has referred, outlines more than 60 actions to assist in achieving the Government target. I congratulate the Minister of State and the Department on this comprehensive plan. The plan includes ambitious targets, such as having 5% of land under organic production by 2012, which will mean an increase from the present 44,600 hectares to 215,000 hectares by 2012. It also includes the development of a comprehensive consumer awareness plan which will disseminate information on the benefits of organic food and focus on increased marketing of Irish organic products in our main export markets. The Minister of State has clearly identified market opportunities for organic producers at home and abroad. In the current climate, it is important to recognise and avail of all such opportunities. I thank the Minister for his efforts in spreading the organic message and highlighting these opportunities.
The world organic market has been growing by 20% a year since the early 1990s and projections for further annual growth range from 10% to 50%. Ireland is well placed to capitalise on this growth in the international market, due to the successful marketing of Ireland abroad by Bord Bia. The Minister of State's statement indicates that Bord Bia research shows a major deficit in the UK market for organic beef. The identification of potential markets and the initiative of producers to target them are a key to future progress. I commend the Minister of State on his efforts to highlight these potential markets. The Minister of State's statement highlights the value of the organic retail market, which was worth €104 million in 2008. The figures presented show that this trend in consumption is growing year by year and identify a potential for further growth.
I agree with the Minister of State that the organic sector is a valuable and totally sustainable production system which offers real opportunities to farmers and the food sector. Research also shows that 45% of Irish grocery shoppers bought an organic product in 2008, indicating a 20% increase over 2003. The increase in value of the organic market to €104 million represents an 82% increase in market value over the past two years.
Today's debate is highly topical, given that the world organic market has been growing by 20% a year since the early 1990s and future projections for further annual growth range from 10% and 50%. In this context, it is timely to debate the potential future growth and marketing of this sector in Ireland. I welcome this debate and congratulate the Minister of State and his Department on the organic farming action plan to develop this important and growing sector of our farming economy.
As a farmer, I appeal to the Minister of State to promote organic Irish beef on world markets. This is a tough year for the farming community. In the past six to eight months we have had extremely bad weather and a hard spring.
What about the Minister for Agriculture and Food?
The Minister has also had it tough but, like all farmers, he is a survivor. He will help us in this regard.
Organic food is an important commodity in the Irish farming economy and I wish the Minister of State well in all his endeavours.
As usual the Leas-Chathaoirleach is chairing the debate very effectively. I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Trevor Sargent. I look forward to interacting with him in this debate. I welcome the fact we are debating an important issue. In the current economic downturn, debate tends to centre on the global, European and national economies. Too often, issues such as this are pushed to one side. This is not done intentionally but the political agenda of the day tends to concentrate on other areas. I am happy that the Leader arranged this important debate. I welcome the Minister of State to the House and I wish him well in his Ministry, as I have done on previous occasions.
The Minister of State will know, from his time teaching in Dunmanway, the areas to which I will refer. They have contributed to the branding of logos and the production of high quality food and to the Irish tourism sector, particularly in the beautiful parts of west Cork and south Kerry.
I was there on Monday.
I believe so. The Minister of State visited Clonakilty, one of the food capitals of west Cork. One of my people heard the Minister of State speak. He is welcome in west Cork any time.
Senator Kieran Phelan referred to farming. There has been extensive lobbying from the Irish Farmers Association regarding the difficulties caused by the economic downturn, particularly for younger farmers. I hope the Government will look again at the early retirement scheme and installation aid, which were axed in the budget of 15 October 2008.
I will relate a case which will illustrate this problem more profoundly than words or statistical analysis ever can. A woman had been widowed and, while her husband's will was in probate, she applied for the early retirement and her son applied for installation aid. Both schemes were axed on 15 October last. That family, who were already suffering a bereavement, faced the financial burden of losing those two schemes. The human effect of those measures goes beyond statistical analysis.
Farming, fishing and food production, as well as construction, are areas where we can begin to re-boot the economy. I have often spoken about the need to replace the labyrinth of prefabs with proper school buildings which would provide the required educational infrastructure as well as much needed employment. The Government should take a lead in looking at food production, farming and fishing in this context. They are important components of the economy of west Cork, for example.
Fishing is an important source of economic activity in coastal areas. The Minister of State knows this subject better than I do because he has special responsibility for food. We produce high quality fish in Ireland. Bord Iascaigh Mhara tries hard to market Irish fish and much of our fish is exported. However, regulations regarding quotas, catches and penalties are hampering people's efforts to make a living from fishing. Salmon drift netting is banned, for example. All these issues militate against younger people coming into these areas of activity, which are very important in rural economies and to food production.
The Kinsale Good Food Circle organises a number of events which showcase local products. Local restaurateurs combine their talents and give their town and its produce a separate identity and character. All the menus boast local produce, whether potatoes grown and harvested in the area, fish caught in the area and Bantry Bay mussels, all of which are uniquely branded. This is in no small way responsible for the tourism. We seek more tourists and a busier industry and this is a very significant impetus for local tourism. It is an annual event which has attracted the famous chef, Keith Floyd, Derek Davis and others. This is a form of decentralisation without mentioning the D-word. We almost bring the mountain to Mohammed. We bring people to the area and put some of the finest products available in the locality on show and display.
Mr. Joe Walsh was the Minister with responsibility for food in the late 1980s and early 1990s and went on to become a very successful Minister for Agriculture. When he worked in the Department with responsibility for food he set up very important bodies such as Bord Bia but he also went to the taste of west Cork festival. He was able to promote industries and provide funding, training programmes and structures which supported the production of food.
For example, Clonakilty black pudding is as famous abroad as it is in Ireland. It is wonderful to visit a city such as London, to enter a supermarket and see a block of Dubliner Irish cheese which is produced in Ballineen, only a number of miles from my home place. It is also wonderful to see Irish yoghurts on display. All such initiatives are well marketed and well promoted but there must be a very strong focus on the continuation of such initiatives, especially given the economic downturn. Their importance to the local economy can never be overstated. Real potential at local level is used and there is potential for added value. People associate product with a location and its people and this contributes to a very successful tourist product that, in my case, is uniquely west Cork and south Kerry.
I refer also to the fuchsia brands initiative in west Cork, a mark of high quality and excellence. It branded certain products and met general requirements and standards.
I refer to building brand awareness. There are supports such as the west Cork community partnership. However, support from Government was critical to opening up markets, developing the product, open up the export market, improving quality standards, assisting in producing newer products and spreading that message. A range of supports exist in this regard.
Throughout the year I have had glorious opportunities to visit the country markets. They are one of the prized possessions of rural Ireland. I was in Skibbereen some months ago and in Clonakilty last week in the context of local elections. I find myself going to such places and getting an t-ocras mór when I leave. It is wonderful to see the display of artisan products, including the selection of cakes and fish. Such markets operate very well. Generally, a close community of people is involved and their motivation is not profit or money. Of course, profit is a part of it but those involved say it is not their prime motivation. They like doing their job. It is a form of social networking and contributes to the local economy. Unfortunately, there has been an issue in Clonakilty in respect of the permanent location of the country market, of which the Minister of State is aware I am sure. The markets in Bandon, Clonakilty and Skibbereen are wonderful and the produce is mostly organic.
The market is in Kinsale on Tuesdays.
I could be here for the evening but nevertheless the Minister of State is aware of these areas and has visited them recently. He taught in Dunmanway and was involved in the cub scout movement there. I was in the beavers at that stage as I was too young to be in that net.
Cork County Council has provided a land bank on the Clonakilty road in Dunmanway. There are people who encourage the development of food units, the production and presentation of outlets and the development of manufacturing facilities. This is a significant step forward and I urge the Minister of State, Deputy Trevor Sargent, to exert all possible pressure to get as much as possible for this part of the economy. The small measures matter and from little acorns tall trees grow. If we invest in these areas and put in place proper training, management and funding, then we will be responsible in no small way for rebooting rural economies.
I welcome the Minister of State to the House and compliment him on the wonderful work he is doing in the Department in driving and promoting the organic food sector. I realise the matter is very close to his heart and he is promoting it well.
I refer to several aspects of the debate, some of which have already been mentioned by my colleagues. Senator Ned O'Sullivan and the Minister of State, Deputy Sargent, alluded to lamb. Something should be done for the lamb market, especially along the west coast and the hilly areas where the lambs are not born until into the month of April. They go on the hills then and it can be said that what results is pure, organic lamb because very little, if any, fertiliser is used and certainly no pesticides are used on the hills. From west Kerry to Connemara, the west of my county of Mayo, north Sligo and into Donegal, there is significant breeding of lambs.
Several years ago there was an export market in Italy for light lamb. If memory serves me correctly the limit was 14 kg. However, now there is not a great market for that lamb. I am delighted to note the Minister of State's request to various bodies such as Bord Bia to pursue this matter and to help get the product recognised as organic.
I welcome the Minister of State's reference to the rural environment protection scheme, REPS, and the incentive to encourage non-REPS farmers in tillage production to convert some of their ground to organic farming. The Minister of State proposes to give a sizeable grant of €240 per hectare available during the conversion period. Up to now a farmer had to be in REPS to be eligible for the organic farming scheme. This requirement has now been removed, which is welcome, and it should help our situation.
I refer to organic beef and entry into markets. We produce a good deal of beef, much of which is organic, and there is a good market for it in this country. However, to access the markets in England is another day's work and I am pleased to note the Minister of State is promoting this aim.
Last weekend I visited Cambridge, one of the oldest cities in England. Through the very centre of the town and beside the university lies a square. It was amazing to see the number of people buying produce in that square on Sunday morning. It was very welcome to witness it and to realise such developments can take place in such a city. In recent years we have progressed to a great degree through the development of farmers' markets in towns throughout Ireland. It was a pleasure to see similar developments in Cambridge as well.
Education is another part of the programme. Several primary schools have taken a plot of ground and sown potatoes, cabbage and some carrots to show the children how it is done. Last month, I had the pleasure of showing such a plot in my local school in Knock to the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe. Such developments are very important, especially during a recession and when there is no longer full employment. People are now encouraged to take plots and grow their own produce. I realise it can be an effort for some as they have never before seen or taken part in such cultivation. It is wonderful to see such development proceed.
Will the Minister of State ask the vocational education committees to run a programme that would encourage and show people how to grow vegetables again? The Minister of State will know of this from his time as a teacher. When I was young each vocational school had a plot and competed with other schools to see which would have the best garden in the county. This provided a great incentive. We all know how to grow potatoes, but we should encourage people to produce some of the wide range of new vegetables as well.
A DVD will be issued in September on that.
That is welcome. It would be no harm to have some practical know-how on it also.
Perhaps we should get the Senator involved.
The value of the organic food industry to the economy was €104 million last year. This is a significant increase from 2003 when it was valued at €34 million. The faster we can grow this important industry, the better. One hundred years ago, the population of the world was approximately 1.7 billion, but now it is almost four times that and we can expect a world shortage of food in the not too distant future. We must try to ensure that does not happen. We have the means of producing food in a clean environment and the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food has encouraged this over the years by enforcing traceability and setting up schemes to ensure high standards of regulation. While we sometimes complain there is too much regulation, we have done a good job on controlling the spread of animal diseases.
I compliment the Minister of State and his staff on encouraging development in this area and on ensuring we are to the fore in the production of high quality food.
I welcome the Minister of State and apologise for being absent during his contribution. However, I am sure my colleague, Senator Buttimer, presented a robust and comprehensive analysis of the situation. Deputy Sargent has spoken here before on this important issue and we are delighted he is here again.
The final paragraph of the Minister of State's speech summarises where our debate on food and agriculture, whether organic, commercial or family farming, should start. He pointed out that 100 years ago the earth's human population was 1.7 billion, but that today it is 6.5 billion. We must acknowledge, therefore, that we are on the verge of a major food crisis. The world has been consuming increased quantities of food at a high rate over the past decade and supplies have come under pressure. One need not be an economic or mathematical genius to know that if this continues, there will be massive food shortages across the globe. Therefore, whether involved in organic, commercial or family farming, we must put an emphasis on ensuring the world can produce enough food to feed mankind.
A major debate is under way in the European Union on how Europe should plan for the future of agriculture post 2013 and it is important we keep the food supply and food shortage issues at the top of that agenda. I recognise the organic food and production sectors have an important role to play, but we must be realistic — I know the Minister of State is — and recognise that the organic sector makes up only a fraction of the entire food production sector. While it is important, we must concentrate on the non-organic sector.
This debate on the organic food industry is taking place at a time of change with regard to the issue of quality versus quantity. At a time of economic plenty people took a greater interest in food quality, food miles, organic and green food, but now we are in more difficult economic times the green organic image has become clouded by economic fears and shortages. The priority now for people doing their daily or weekly shopping is to be able to purchase sufficient food for the family and the issues of food labelling and food miles etc. have lost impetus. The promotion of the organic sector and organic food production have, therefore, become more difficult in these strained economic times. While the debate on organic food and the need to support its production is as valid as ever, priorities at production and consumer level have changed.
Senator Buttimer and other colleagues pointed out the obvious to the Minister of State with regard to the pressures on family farms, the collapse in the dairy industry, the pressure being faced by beef producers and the effect of bad weather on tillage production. A huge variety of problems face Irish farmers and these need urgent attention from the Government.
I recognise the value of organic food production and am aware that while it may be described as a niche market, there is room for expansion and job creation. There is room also for some family farmers to become more expert in organic production. This would be good for the rural economy, Irish agriculture, the food production industry and consumers. We need to encourage this and I support the efforts of the Department in that regard.
The REPS programme was, in a sense, our first mini-move towards organic or more natural food production. The scheme worked well, but there is disappointment at the reduction in payments. I hope that as Government finances improve, be it in two years, five years or ten years, we will be in a position to put more money into REPS-type farming. It is an initiative that should be supported from the environmental and economic perspective. The various support schemes for organic production have been co-funded by Europe and the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and have resulted in additional people joining the organic food production chain. This is welcome. While recognising the financial constraints on the Department, I urge the Minister of State to try and ensure further support is provided.
I acknowledge the work being done by the Minister of State, following his philosophy and strong belief in organic food production. However, I believe he realises the organic production sector comprises only a fraction of his Department's output and expenditure and is only a fraction of food production generally. If we can grow that fraction, all the better and I will support efforts in that regard. However, it would be remiss of me in this debate not to reflect on the bigger crisis facing agriculture — the lack of confidence, doubt about the willingness of future generations to commit to a full-time career in agriculture, the need to invest in training, research and development and the need at EU level to respond to the crisis in the Irish dairy industry. We need to recognise it is not feasible, financially or otherwise, for Irish dairy farmers to be receiving the same price for milk in 2009 as some of them received in 1979 and 1980. During the same period, the price being paid by consumers has increased by many multiples. I have outlined some aspects of the immediate crisis facing Irish agriculture that need to be given serious attention by officials in the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and by the Government as a whole. Organic food has a role to play. There is a reasonable degree of consumer demand for it. As I said earlier, we have to accept that the recession will have an effect on this sector. People will have less money to spend on food each week. They may be less willing to spend the slightly higher prices that sometimes have to be paid for organic food. The change in this equation will probably make the Minister of State's job a little more difficult.
I have to correct the Senator. The organic food sector has enjoyed growth of 11%, whereas the conventional food sector has had growth of just 2.7%. The organic sector is still very strong.
Do those figures relate to this year?
The figures, which were provided by Bord Bia, relate to the period since the beginning of this year and therefore during the recession.
I stand corrected.
I mentioned those figures in my opening speech. The level of growth is still strong.
I am surprised there has been such a level of increase in the sector.
It is not as strong as it was, but it is still strong.
It is welcome. The Minister of State will accept that people are less inclined to purchase certain types of foods when they have smaller disposable incomes. When one considers what is happening in the multiple retailers, such as Aldi and Lidl, it is clear that Irish agriculture, particularly the organic sector, will have to confront certain challenges. I wish the Minister of State well in his endeavours. I ask him to keep the broader concerns of commercial farmers and family farms at the core of his thinking. If the present price structure continues, it will drive thousands of people out of Irish agriculture and onto the dole queues. That would be a disaster for our economy and for rural Ireland.
I welcome the Minister of State. He is responsible for this important sector of the Irish food industry. We would be fooling ourselves if we were to believe that Ireland can compete with countries like Brazil, New Zealand and Argentina when it comes to food production. We do not have the economies of scale that exist in the United States. We do not have the factory farms that are probably still in operation in Russia. In such countries, thousands of acres of land are available to each farmer who engages in the mass production of food. As the Minister of State said at the beginning of this debate, Ireland's image as a country with a green and clean environment is recognised throughout the world. As a nation, however, we have not exploited that image.
I agree with the Minister of State that we can compete successfully in the growing organic food sector. Ireland's ability to compete has been hampered in many sectors of the economy. Perhaps the current battle involving Tesco, which continues to reduce its prices, is the main indication of that. We read yesterday about the protest made by farmers and potato producers at a meeting of the board of Tesco. In the long run, we cannot compete with those involved in the mass production of food. We need to find niche markets, such as the organic food sector. We have to stop pretending that farmers can continue to get paid for products that are also being produced by their Brazilian counterparts at prices with which we cannot compete. We have to add value to our products. Organic production is adding value. The County Kerry organic feasibility study is being undertaken in conjunction with South Kerry Development Partnership Limited. I will not name the chairman of the partnership, as he is running for an Opposition party in the upcoming local elections. I do not want to help his chances.
I have outed him already.
In that case, I will mention him by name. The chairman of the group, Councillor Johnny "Porridge" O'Connor, is doing good work. I hope the porridge in question is organic. He is trying to encourage hotels and restaurants in County Kerry to offer an organic menu. That would be an example of added value. People often come to County Kerry for the food. They get great food in Kenmare and good food in the rest of Kerry. My colleague, Senator O'Sullivan, would argue that the food in Listowel is great as well. If such an alternative were offered in restaurants, it would be another incentive to farmers to produce organic food. Restaurant menus should offer reasonably priced organic food, which is of a better quality because it is not subject to certain processes. Animals in the US are treated with hormones, which does not add to the taste of meat but reduces the cost of producing it and cheapens the product itself.
We are suffering at the hands of a frightening bureaucracy. I recently received representations from members of the Fianna Fáil cumann in Glencar, who are concerned about the proposal to tag sheep. It seems that another level of bureaucracy is to be foisted upon farmers. I appreciate that tags will not be needed in the case of lambs under the age of 12 months. However, this measure will not help farm production or help Irish farmers to compete. It will apply across the European Union, although obviously not in Brazil or Argentina. Perhaps the Minister of State will consider the possibility that the Department is too keen to police these rules. As Senator Carty said, no fertilisers or pesticides are used on the mountains of County Kerry, like those in County Donegal and along the rest of the west coast. However, the certification of the Kerry lamb seems to be quite a difficult issue. Perhaps the Minister of State will examine the possibility of allowing this matter to be included in the organic feasibility study. The ultimate aim of such a move would be to allow the farmers of County Kerry to achieve higher values for their products when they sell them to restaurants and hotels. That would be of great benefit to the economy in my part of the country.
Organic farming is just one of this country's food production issues. One of our other problems is the demise of the co-operative movement. Some 80% of the food produced by German farmers is processed through co-ops. The co-op system allows the farmer to control not only the cost of food production, but also the price charged at the point of sale. Farmers dictated the price of milk through the co-ops for many years. We are aware that the price of milk is much the same as it was 20 years ago. That price has been dictated by plc shareholders ever since farmers sold their shares in co-ops to those who formed those companies. As a consequence, farmers are at a loss. I ask the Minister of State to examine the possibility of the Kerry lamb being certified as organic. What criteria need to be met in that respect? I wish those involved in the County Kerry organic feasibility study the best of success.
I ask the Senator to conclude as I am keen to give Senator Quinn a chance to contribute before the Minister of State replies at the end of the debate.
That is fine. I will cede the floor.
I thank the Senator for his co-operation.
I did not intend to interrupt the flow of Senator Daly, who was addressing some interesting topics. I am delighted the Minister of State is present for this debate. I am interested in much of what he has had to say. I came up with some figures when I did my research for this debate, but I do not intend to use them after seeing what happened to Senator Bradford. It is obvious the Minister of State has more up-to-date figures than Members. I was impressed to hear the Minister of State mention there were 1.9 billion people in the world 100 years ago, but that figure has now increased to 6.5 billion and is expected to increase to 8 billion by 2025. It was interesting to hear Senator Bradford talk about the need to be able to produce more food. We have to produce more food to feed the additional people on this planet. That cannot be done by organic means alone. It is clear we will have to strike a balance somewhere along the line. We have to make sure there is a market for organic produce and for other produce. I am of the opinion that genetically modified foods should be given far more attention here in Ireland. I am not sure that we are doing so. I would love to see the balance of views taken into account.
I was in London last night to hear a speech by Andy Bond, the chief executive of Asda. What he said about the different trends was interesting and received a fair bit of publicity over the weekend and will now again. He said that the market for organics which were identified as a thing of the future has stumbled this year because people have less money and are trying to feed their families in straitened conditions. They are watching what they spend and organics are expensive.
People howl about why organics are so expensive. It is because unnatural fertilisers are not used so they will always be more expensive than other products. I have tried to grow vegetables without using fertilisers and have found a huge difference between using them and not using them. I can understand a farmer being tempted to look for methods and manners to help growth. We must not close our eyes to genetically modified products.
There will, however, always be a market for organics. Some people are fussy about what they and their children eat but the market is confused. I spent a great deal of time in my business listening to my customers to find out what they wanted but for many years I made the mistake of not listening to those who are not my customers who say why they do not shop for a certain product or in a certain store. It is important to listen to them as well. The voice of those who favour organics must be balanced by that of those who choose other options.
It was interesting to hear Peter Dargan, a veterinarian and former chairman of the Irish Consumers Association, who was opposed to organics for health reasons. He said he would prefer to eat vegetables grown with artificial fertiliser than those produced with manure from cattle to protect his health. There are customers who behave well, watching their health from Monday to Friday, and at the weekend decide to misbehave and buy junk food. The market is very confused and the danger is that we do not recognise what can happen.
Between 2006 and 2008 sales of organic food in Ireland rose by 82%. I am not sure whether the Minister of State had that figure. I saw his figure that the market is worth €120 million this year. I was interested in his point that a considerable amount of that is imported whereas in Britain a high proportion is locally grown. As the recession has set in, the return to buying cheaper food has accelerated. That was instanced in the speech I heard last night. Some argue that market growth in the organic sector is expected to continue but at a slower rate. That is speculation. Figures available for other countries show that there has been a massive slowdown. In the UK a year ago almost half of middle class shoppers bought organic foods but that share has slumped to a third this year, according to the Institute of Grocery Distribution in Britain, of which I am a fellow. We now see how low cost retailers have made massive gains in Ireland, especially in the past year. People are becoming more careful and some are perhaps wary of organic products which they associate with high costs. It seems that more than half of consumers believe that organics are expensive and price is the main reason given for not buying them.
The Irish Times recently mentioned Flahavans in Waterford, which entered the organic market in 2005, and quoted John Flahavan as saying that organic products now account for 15% of their business. His main problem was to source native Irish organic oats for what is the last oat milling plant in Ireland. He said that in 2007 he could get only one week's supply from Ireland, one month's supply for the 2008 season and for this year's processing he was unable to access two to three months' supply. He said he told the farmers he paid €142 per tonne for conventional oats last year but his organic suppliers receive €400 per tonne. There is an opportunity here.
I am delighted we are having this debate and to hear the Minister of State's considered enthusiasm for these products which I do not want to dampen. There is a market there. We can achieve far more than we are doing and it is great that the Minister of State is pursuing that objective but let us get the balance right as well.
Will the Minister of State try to conclude by 1.30 p.m. if possible?
I will try to conclude in four minutes.
The Minister of State has ten minutes but we will have to extend the House sitting.
I will do my best. In fairness to the Senators who have stayed the course and spoke later, I will go in reverse to respond to as many speakers as possible before I am guillotined.
We will not guillotine the Minister of State. We will let him finish his speech.
I will try not to delay the House.
I thank everybody who contributed. I appreciate the contributions from various points of view. Naturally I have a particular respect for Senator Quinn, given his background, when speaking on any matters to do with food. It is important to listen to all views and take account of the research, as well as to consider the global picture which comes naturally to me because my Green Party background is based on thinking globally and acting locally. I constantly reflect on the question of how to feed the world because it is staring us in the face. There are endless reports. If we could eat paper we would not have a problem — for example, Cambridge University Press has published a report entitled Can Organic Agriculture Feed the World? Studies around the world have posed this question. One might offer a view based on genetically modified, GM, foods which represents a paradigm shift and say to hell with it, we have to go GM and go large scale. That view often comes from people who are used to large scale agriculture on the American prairies or places where people have the machinery and need only switch over to a higher yield.
When I was in Ethiopia with Irish Aid I put the various choices to the government there. They listened, took it all in and said they had a system of small scale agriculture. They do not have the infrastructure to collect fertiliser, never mind collecting GM inputs, such as seed. To get a donkey to go to a market town could take two days and then they would have to measure time against efficiency, which they do differently from us and which we would find difficult to understand. They said they need more research into organic farming because it is closest to what they can deliver. It involves nutrient cycles and people having small productive farms. These are the people most affected by hunger.
John Flahavan, whom Senator Quinn quoted, said that for most of its life Flahavan's porridge has been organic because it pre-dates the introduction of nitrogen in 1909. He sees it being organic in the future as the phenomenal growth shows. We have been living with a windfall of energy and food production on the basis of that energy and we need to put into practice the next transition to post-oil production. That is a luxury on which we need to reflect because it will not be possible in the future. I am not holding a candle in any way but all these issues need to be considered very carefully and acted upon. We do not have time for a long-term transition.
We know from the pork crisis how quickly the shelves can clear when there is an interruption in the food supply. The more diverse the supply, the more likely it is that we will be resilient enough to withstand the shocks internationally. This is where the gambit of direct sales comes into play in addition to the considerations associated with the retail sector.
Organic produce is more expensive because, in spite of our complaints about energy, the oil we get from the ground is a lot cheaper than human energy. Somebody mentioned to me that he had worked out that if one were to compare the petrol in a full tank with human hours, bearing in mind the cost of labour, one would conclude that it would be the equivalent of approximately 8,000 human hours. Nobody is suggesting we pay a garage 8,000 human hours to fill a car; we are talking about a system of food production that is subsidised because we are not paying for the human labour that would otherwise be required to carry out the work. We are looking at the issue from the wrong end of the microscope. If we say organic production is more expensive, we should realise its cost is closer to the real price of the food. At present, we are in denial that energy will cost more than it does at present. Unfortunately, it is a geological reality that it will cost more. Difficult as rising costs may be to contemplate, we must keep prices competitive and as low as possible.
Senator Bradford, whom I am sorry I interrupted, should note I am surprised organic sales are holding up so well. The Senator and I are listening to people saying times are tough, that they must cut back and cannot pay for things they really do not need. The reality seems to be that people are cutting back on eating out, which is of benefit to the retailers but not to the restaurants. Instead of eating out, people are buying good quality ingredients, cooking at home and having an entertainment experience at home similar to what they would have outside the home. The organic sector is benefiting from that shift. It is great from the perspective of organic producers. It must really be read twice that while conventional food sales have risen by 2.7% since the beginning of the year, organic food sales have risen by 11%. One would have believed the figure would be lower. These statistics are from Bord Bia. I asked it whether it was sure about them and its officials said that is the evidence. Senator Quinn stated that the way in which people respond to challenges is quite complex. I have outlined one of them.
A lot has been said and I will not touch on everything. Senators Carty, Daly and O'Sullivan referred to lamb. It is frustrating because our lamb production is so close to being organic. I remember mentioning this at an Oireachtas committee and somebody asked why it could not just be called organic. The reality is that the sector has continued to be resilient because it enjoys public confidence. No matter what the pressures are, it maintains its standard. For example, genetically modified produce is not used. This has a lot to do with the public, or the "royal customer" of which Senator Quinn speaks. Regardless of what one might believe or prescribe, customers, by and large, do not want genetically modified food. If they are to contemplate it, they will want it labelled very clearly. They are not confident it is labelled at present and therefore opt for organic produce. One of the main reasons sales of organic food are so high in Austria is because the produce is guaranteed to be non-GM. It was discovered that customers were buying organic produce as a primary consideration.
On the subject of lamb, which has nothing to do with genetic modification, I have asked Bord Bia to revert to me. I attended the Teagasc conference at which we heard from Mr. John Brennan, one of the main people involved with the Leitrim farmers' co-operative. He stated 11,000 Irish organic lambs enter the market every year while there are 100,000 in Scotland. Ireland supplies organic lamb up to December, after which we depend largely on New Zealand lamb. Mr. Brennan suggested one reason for the difficulty in entering the retail sector with organic lamb – perhaps I could discuss this with Senator Quinn after the debate – is that there are not enough opportunities for direct sales. He said Bord Bia needs to market the organic option. There is considerable investment in marketing spring lamb, but with no reference to organic production. We need to take stock of what has been said today. I ask Bord Bia to take note of what has been said by everybody.
Senator O'Sullivan referred to the clear public perception that organic food is a healthy option. He referred to the study in Newcastle University, which study is the most comprehensive. The peer review is almost complete and we will have a very rigorous scientifically researched reason for presenting a comparison of evidence pertaining to conventional and organic foods. The University of California carried out a ten-year study, focusing mainly on tomatoes. There was evidence that there are more flavonoids and antioxidants in the organic versions, which stands to reason. Organic standards are such that one must plant in soil. A lot more nutrients are obtained when planting in soil than when planting in rockwool, in which most conventional tomatoes are grown. There is nothing in rockwool and the nutrients must be fed in by a drip or hydroponics. A select amount of nutrients, produced in laboratory conditions, is fed to the plant. While organic growing might take a little longer and production may not be so uniform, more nutrients are available because plants are grown in soil.
Evidence suggests that organic milk has more vitamins than non-organic milk. In Austria, milk and potatoes are the two main products in the organic sector. The Austrians read the evidence and chose this course of action.
Is the Minister of State satisfied that the message is getting out to the public?
The Newcastle report, which has been published, will be analysed rigorously and peer reviewed.
One aspect of organic production that must be accounted for, although it might seem small, is that the honey bee population is decreasing. An analogy would be that of a canary in a cage. We depend on pollination and anybody who has tried to pollinate with a small bit of a brush instead of using bees will know just how difficult it is and how bad one's yield will be as a consequence.
The effect of chemicals is regarded as one of the main reasons for the decrease in the bee population. We must keep ourselves apprised of all the interlinking arrangements. If pollination is affected, all agriculture will be affected. It is in our interest that organic production constitute a healthy proportion of agricultural production as a whole. It results in increased biodiversity and will benefit all agriculture because there will be a larger insect population and a higher level of pollination. It is in everyone's interest to encourage the organic sector.
Sitting suspended at 1.40 p.m. and resumed at 3 p.m.