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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 22 Apr 2010

Vol. 202 No. 3

Fines Bill 2009: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I am pleased to present the Fines Bill 2009 to the Seanad. It has taken some time to prepare but I am confident that Senators will, when I outline its many innovative provisions, agree it is at the cutting edge of law reform. The Bill will update all existing fines that can be imposed in the District Court with equal increases to those fines that can be imposed in the higher courts, ensure persons can afford to pay fines imposed on them without causing undue hardship to them or their dependants, provide alternatives to imprisonment where a fine is not paid by the due date and ensure that those alternatives will always take precedence over imprisonment.

I will outline the Bill under three main headings, namely, indexation of fines, an improved system for the assessment of offenders' financial circumstances and for payment of fines by instalments and the question of providing practical and viable alternatives to imprisonment where offenders default on payment of their fines. Any approach to the complex exercise of updating fines must be underpinned by two fundamental realities. First, because the District Court is a court of summary jurisdiction which deals only with minor offences, there must be an upper limit to the level of fine that can be imposed by it which reflects its limited jurisdiction. Second, the updated fines in the District Court cannot be greater than the maximum fines that could be imposed in the higher courts for the same or similar offences.

The indexation of fines scheme is based on the Law Reform Commission report of 1991 and a review of developments on the indexation of fines published by the commission in 2002. The LRC undertook an in-depth examination of the effect over time of inflation on the integrity of the imposition of fines as a penalty by the courts. It also looked at systems in operation in other jurisdictions. The commission identified two possible avenues of reform, the standard fine system and the variable fine system. The standard fine system provides updated fine maxima for all existing fine maxima. The variable fine system, which is also known as a unit fine or day fine system, provides for the imposition of fines in terms of units of gravity where the monetary value in each case is dictated by the means of the offender.

The commission initially recommended the introduction of the standard fine system. In its review of developments in 2002, it confirmed its earlier recommendation. The commission further examined the experience of jurisdictions in which unit fine systems were adopted and recommended caution in respect of the adoption of such a system in this jurisdiction. It considered that it would be inappropriate to adopt such a system and that many of the positive features of such a system could be achieved by adopting its recommendations. This Bill gives effect to the commission's main recommendations by introducing a standard fine system and placing an obligation on the courts to consider an offender's financial circumstances before deciding on the level of fine to impose.

I will explain the features of the Bill in more detail. Sections 4 to 8, inclusive, introduce a standard fine system for the District Court with five classes or categories. The monetary values of existing fines are being brought up to date in order that they will now regain the value they had when first introduced or last updated. Tables of relative money values exist prior to 1922 although, as the Law Reform Commission pointed out, they become less reliable as one goes further back and, in any case, in the century before 1914 prices were very stable. The tables proposed in the Bill are, accordingly, based on a 1914 index of 100.

If one wanted to be exact, it would be necessary to take a particular fine and increase its value in line with increases in the consumer price index since the fine was created. This would require a separate calculation to be done for every fine imposed in the District Court, and I am sure Senators will agree that would not be practicable. However, that level of exactitude is not necessary. Instead, I have accepted the recommendation of the LRC to have a limited number of possible maximum fines. The LRC recommended between three and five classes and the I have opted for five, which are set out in section 3. Fines not exceeding €5,000 will in future be described in legislation as class A fines, class B fines will be fines not exceeding €4,000, class C fines will be fines not exceeding €2,500, class D fines will be fines not exceeding €1,000 and class E fines will be fines not greater than €500.

When new legislation is published after the commencement of the indexation provisions of this Bill, maximum fines will not be described in such legislation in monetary terms but instead by the class to which they belong. Existing fines will be assigned to their appropriate classes when updated in accordance with increases in the consumer price index. In this way, all fines will have regained the value they had when first created or last updated by statute. The clearest way to illustrate how the system will work is by giving examples.

First, an Act passed later this year might create an offence triable summarily with a maximum fine on conviction of, say, €4,000. As can be seen from the definitions, a fine falls into class B where the amount of the fine does not exceed €4,000. Therefore, the Act would state something along the lines of: "A person found guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a class B fine". In the example I have given, the maximum fine within the appropriate class is €4,000. The actual fine a court could impose could be that amount or any amount less than the court, in its discretion, would consider appropriate. This system imposes no restrictions on the discretionary power of the court to impose the fine it considers appropriate in a particular case apart from the fact that a maximum is specified as at the current time.

I will now give some examples of how to find the appropriate level of an existing fine that has been updated to its real value. Not to update existing fines in line with inflation since they were first introduced or last increased would be to defeat the intention of the Houses of the Oireachtas which in days gone by had decided on the appropriate maximum fine for a particular offence. The first example I will give is of an Act of 1935 which created an offence with a maximum fine on summary conviction of, in modern currency value, €200. To find the current value of that fine one has to study the tables by reference to the year and the amount. The first reference is to the year, which is reference number 7, that is, the years 1915 to 1944. The relevant amount is greater than €127 in the class A table. Accordingly, it will be a class A fine which has a maximum value of €5,000. Another example would be a fine of €500 in 1940 which was increased by statute to €1,000 in 1990. The reference number this time is 2, that is, between 1990 and 1996. It cannot be a class A fine as it is not greater than €2,769, the amount opposite reference number 2. Similarly, it cannot be a class B fine as it is not greater than €1,731. In fact, it will be a class C fine as the most recent level of the fine was not greater than €1,731 but greater than €692. Therefore, the maximum fine is now €2,500, that is, a class C fine.

The courts will quickly become accustomed to operating the indexation provisions. However, if difficulties arise in implementing the indexation provisions, they can be addressed in regulations made under section 11. I do not foresee any difficulty in implementation that would require me to make regulations to remove the difficulty but, as this is ground-breaking legislation with no precedent, it is prudent to be prepared.

Ideally, the tables in sections 4 to 8, inclusive, could be amended periodically in regulations to take account of inflation. However, our advice has been that such amendments might be open to challenge in the courts. Rather than take a risk, amending the figures in the tables will have to be done by way of primary legislation. There is nothing to stop Ministers at any time substantively raising fines for offences in legislation for which they have responsibility. That would also have to be done by way of primary legislation and in practical terms it would mean, for example, changing a class D fine to a class C fine, if that was what was required.

At the outset, I mentioned two issues that are fundamental to the indexation of fines. As a court of summary jurisdiction, there must be a relatively low ceiling on the maximum fines the District Court can impose when dealing with minor offences. The Attorney General has agreed that for the current time the maximum fine that can be imposed by a court of summary jurisdiction is €5,000. Therefore, in the definition in section 3, the maximum fine that can be imposed in the District Court will be a class A fine, that is, a fine not exceeding €5,000. This can be increased by means of legislation in line with inflation when the fines generally are being updated.

It would not be feasible to provide similar tables for fines that the higher courts can impose. Those courts can impose huge fines of many millions of euro or even unlimited fines. Such fines would not lend themselves to such indexing. However, higher court fines could not be ignored in the preparation of this legislation. To have done so would have meant that where an offence was triable either way, the District Court fine might be higher than the maximum fine a higher court could impose.

Other anomalies could also arise. One particular danger which could arise is that the courts might be inclined to declare that a particular offence was no longer a minor one fit to be tried summarily but had become a serious offence that must be tried on indictment. This would be undesirable. One of the factors that a court takes into account when deciding whether an offence is a minor one fit to be tried summarily is the level of fine for which a person would be liable if convicted of the offence. The elimination of any appreciable difference between the maximum summary fine and the maximum fine on conviction on indictment, or the fact of the maximum summary fine exceeding the maximum indictable fine in the same statute, would be likely to weigh heavily with a court in determining whether the offence concerned had ceased to be a minor offence fit to be tried summarily.

The position of the higher court fines was a conundrum for which there was no easy, obvious or ideal answer. The system of indexing higher court fines that has been agreed with the Attorney General is based on a multiplier system. Section 9 has a table of seven time periods and any fines of determinate amount that were provided for or updated during each time period is multiplied by an amount based on the increase in District Court fines for the same periods. The reason there are not eight time periods, unlike the other tables, is because the most recent would be multiplied by one so there would be little point in providing for it in the table.

I mentioned that the Law Reform Commission also recommended in its 2002 report that the court, in determining the level of a fine in a particular case, should have the ability to take into account the financial circumstances of the offender and the burden the payment of the fine would have on the offender and his or her dependants. The commission further recommended that a court should have regard to such matters, irrespective of whether the effect of so doing would be to increase or reduce the amount of the fine so as to convey the principle of equality of impact upon offenders of different means. The commission reiterated those recommendations in a further report in 2003.

Section 13 gives effect to those recommendations. The purpose of section 13 is to ensure that, as far as practicable, the effect of a fine on a person or his or her dependants is not significantly abated or made more severe by reason of his or her financial circumstances. For that reason the offender will be obliged to provide information on his or her financial circumstances and the court may then impose a fine that is higher or lower than, or equal to, the otherwise appropriate fine. The otherwise appropriate fine is the fine the court would have imposed but for section 13, having regard to all the circumstances of the case. In the District Court no fine can exceed the €5,000 maximum that can be imposed in that court and, in the case of individual fines, the fine cannot exceed the maximum for the offence for which it was imposed. In the rare cases where there is a minimum fine the fine cannot be less than that minimum.

Section 14 introduces another ground-breaking initiative that will greatly facilitate a smoother and more efficient collection of fines by providing for payment of fines by instalments. This initiative was recommended in the Comptroller and Auditor General's report on the collection of fines in 2000 as a way of increasing the level of payment of fines, in particular, where the offender had limited means. The high level group report on the collection of fines to the Committee of Public Accounts in 2001 also recommended that the facility of payment of fines by instalments be introduced as a necessary prerequisite to the introduction of harder hitting enforcement methods such as attachment of earnings. The section gives effect to these recommendations. It gives the courts power to direct that a fine be paid by instalments if it is satisfied that requiring a person to pay the full amount up-front by the due date would place that person or his or her dependants under undue financial hardship.

A scheme for paying fines by instalments will pose an administrative challenge for the Courts Service. It has been decided that the payment by instalments system will only apply to fines in excess of €100 to lessen the burden. As soon as the system is up and running smoothly, that amount can, if necessary, be reviewed. However, for the present it is a prudent but relatively minor limitation on the operation of the scheme. It is also prudent to place a time limit for the full payment of the fine. The norm will be for the instalments to be spread over one year. However, the person on whom the fine has been imposed may apply to the court for an extension of time and the court may grant the extension for a period of not more than a further year. In other words, there are no circumstances where the payment of the fine by instalments can be spread beyond two years.

The third major policy initiative in the legislation provides the courts with new options as alternatives to imprisonment when a person defaults on the payment of a fine. There is a perception that the prisons are cluttered up by persons who are there for no other reason than they did not pay a fine, but that is not true. A total of 3,366 persons were imprisoned in the first ten months of 2009 for that reason, which was well up on the number imprisoned the previous year. That the number is increasing at such a rate highlights the need for this legislation and, in particular, the additional initiatives I will shortly outline. However, on any given night, only a small number of prison places are occupied by fine defaulters, some of whom, for their own reasons, can afford to pay but choose not to do so. While these provisions, with the equality of impact and payment by instalments initiatives, should reduce the figures further, that is not the only reason I propose to provide alternatives to imprisonment. It is socially desirable that prison be an option for fine defaulters only in the most exceptional circumstances such as where someone has a malign reason for refusing to pay the fine.

Section 15 will allow the courts to appoint a receiver to recover the fine or seize property belonging to a fine defaulter and recover from the sale of the property a sum equivalent to the value of the fine or any unpaid part of it. The order will be made by the court at the time the fine is imposed but will only be activated when the offender has not paid by the due date for payment and the receiver has been informed of the default by the Courts Service. This will be the only option open to the court on default. If the receiver cannot recover the fine or its value in property, the court will be able to make a community service order if the offender consents and is suitable for community service. Imprisonment will become an option if the offender does not consent to community service, cannot comply with the conditions for community service, no place is available or fails to carry out the community service.

The probation service supervised 1,667 community service orders in 2009. It has the capacity to increase substantially the number of community service orders it can supervise by increasing the number of offenders on each work programme. For example, owing to the number of orders being made by the courts, a particular programme of, say, graffiti removal might have only one or two offenders on it. This could be increased to four or five without significantly altering the level of supervision.

Receivers will be appointed by the Government following nomination by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform with the agreement of the Minister for Finance. Persons will be invited by the Courts Service to tender for the job of receiver and the service will manage the contract arrangements and administer the scheme. Receiver fees will be in accordance with scales provided for in a fees order. The procedures for the appointment of receivers, their fees and terms and conditions will be similar to those for Revenue sheriffs and sheriffs.

I will summarise the sequence of events when a fine is imposed in the courts. When a fine is imposed, instead of the district justice saying he or she is fining someone €1,000 or handing down a term of imprisonment for seven days if the person defaults, a recovery order will be made appointing a receiver to recover the fine or its equivalent in property. The order will enter into force only if the fine is not paid by the due date for payment and will have effect from the date the Courts Service informs the receiver of the non-payment of the fine. If the receiver cannot recover the fine or its value in property, the court will make a community service order if the offender consents and the other conditions are complied with. Only then will the question of imprisonment arise. What I have outlined represents a logical sequence of events when a fine is imposed and not paid by the due date for payment. It will reduce the pressure on prison spaces and greatly reduce the time gardaí spend executing court warrants. Additional duties for the probation service will be performed largely from within existing resources. Discussions have been taking place with the Courts Service on the additional burden that will be placed on the service.

My final initiative is the name and shame provision under section 19. This will give the Courts Service the power to publish the names of people who default on fines. It represents a further incentive to persons to pay their fines. While some persons are incorrigible, most will not like receivers turning up at their door, in front of neighbours, to recover property and they will not want their names and addresses to be published for all to see for non-payment of a fine imposed by a court on conviction for committing an offence.

While this is a relatively short Bill, it will quickly be seen to be important reforming legislation. It may appear complex, in particular, in regard to the indexing provisions, but that is a worthwhile and necessary price to pay for what will be achieved because failure to index fines could lead to ridiculous fines being imposed and failure to maintain the values of fines imposed years ago would only serve to frustrate the efforts of our predecessors in the Oireachtas who would have given much thought to what they considered to be the appropriate financial penalties for breaches of the offences they were creating.

I will table amendments on Committee Stage. These will mainly be of a drafting or technical nature or intended to elaborate on the provisions of Part 3. I commend the Bill to the House. It is ground-breaking legislation. I have spent a great deal of time with my officials teasing out the basis on which the Bill should be framed to ensure people will not be sent to prison, as they have been in recent times, for failing to pay their dog or television licence fee. However, they should not get off scot free. That is why I have inserted a series of steps to be taken before someone who fails to pay for a dog licence and is clearly thumbing his or her nose at the court that has imposed the fine is sent to prison, particularly where he or she has the means to pay the fine through instalments or otherwise but will not do so. Similar provisions were introduced in civil law following a recent High Court decision to ensure a prison sentence would only be used as a last resort for non-payment of civil debts. When we pass the Bill, coupled with the legislation we have passed and to which we will probably add in the near future in the civil area, we will reach a stage where we will not have the ludicrous position whereby ordinary citizens who have only come into contact with the law perhaps once in their lives but who may have forgotten to pay a fine are dragged off to Mountjoy. That involves the creation of a significant amount of paperwork and bureaucracy in terms of bringing persons to prison and finding the necessary space for them only to find that they are let go the next day when they have paid the fine. The enactment of the Bill will change the situation experienced by many in the past. It will also free up a relatively small number of places in prison. Given that the prison population is rising dramatically and that while in comparison with other OECD countries we have a relatively small prisoner population, it is increasing and it is necessary to use prison only in cases where it is warranted. In many cases that have occurred in the past it has not been warranted to send people to prison. When the excellent legislation is passed it will stand the test of time.

I welcome the Bill and the Minister's detailed exposition of it. The Bill contains a number of important considerations which justify it. The Minister has outlined the cases where due to oversight or otherwise people are imprisoned if only for short terms for non-payment of a fine. We have a problem with prisoner numbers and overcrowding in prisons. We have the extraordinary figure revealed in the National Crime Council report that a total of 22% of all prison committals were for the non-payment of fines. In light of that the Bill is of fundamental importance.

The Bill has been a long time in coming. That is not entirely the fault of the Minister because the delay has existed for a considerable period. In October 1991 the Law Reform Commission published its first report on the indexation of fines. Various promises were made on a Bill to address indexation. In 1998 the Taoiseach of the day promised such a Bill. The excellent report of the Comptroller and Auditor General appeared in 2000. Much work was done also by the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights. The Law Reform Commission published another report in 2002. The groundwork was laid for the Bill in terms of the reports outlined. In addition, Fine Gael published a number of Bills on the area that were shot down by the Government of the day.

The Bill is to be welcomed. In certain cases fines appear ludicrously small compared with the offence and they bring the law into disrepute. The updating of the maximum fines is important and the increase in fines imposed by the higher courts. It is particularly important in the areas of environmental crime, company law and competition matters that fines are commensurate with the offence and have a real deterrent effect.

The provision giving powers to the court to inquire into the capacity of persons to pay fines is of fundamental importance. It will increase the burden on the courts but it is a fundamental part of ascertaining the ability to pay and the reasonableness and justice in sending a person to prison for non-payment of a fine if he or she has an inability to pay. Figures are not available in this country but in the United Kingdom one study showed that 90% of fine defaulters were men, 76% were unemployed and approximately 66% had been in prison previously either for non-payment of a fine or for something else. If those figures reflect the situation in this country then we recognise the problem we are dealing with in that in many cases there is an inability to pay fines. Therefore, I welcome the provision on payment by instalment which is of fundamental importance.

I have come across a situation where, for example, a person was fined more than €1,000 for dumping material at a bottle bank or some such collection centre. Many such persons are unemployed and would never be in a position to get €1,000 together to pay the fine in one lump sum. I investigated the possibility of the individual in that case paying by instalment. The provision for payment by instalment is most important.

The Minister outlined an alternative to prison for persons in default of payment such as community service and other means. I welcome the Bill. It has gone through considerable vetting in committee. I note that a number of amendments have been made to it. I reserve my position in terms of tabling amendments on Committee Stage. I recognise the work that has been put into the Bill by the Minister and the Department in addition to the ground-breaking work of the Law Reform Commission and the other bodies involved with it.

In referring to indexation the Minister indicated it would not be appropriate that the matter would be dealt with by way of regulation but that it should be done by way of primary legislation according to the advice of the Attorney General. Section 11 provides that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform may, by regulation, do anything which appears to him or her to be necessary or expedient for removing a difficulty that may arise. In a sense this is the Oireachtas delegating to the Minister power to amend the primary legislation. If there is a problem of drafting or otherwise, it should be corrected in primary legislation. It is not a healthy precedent, although I understand that type of arrangement whereby one can amend primary legislation by regulation is more applicable in the case of the transposition of European Union law. I do not see the justification for it in this case. It does not help to ensure clarity and transparency in the law where even a practitioner has to look not only through the primary legislation and amendments thereto but has to vet regulations for changes in primary legislation. That is not desirable. I am not sure I understand the consistency in argument where indexation, which would seem to be a rather technical matter, should by done by primary legislation but in this case the Minister can do anything which he considers expedient to deal with a difficulty that arises in the implementation of the Act. I urge the Minister to clarify that matter.

The broad thrust of the Bill is appropriate. The updating of the system of indexation, whereby the multipliers are applied is such that the system is very coherent and rational. I very much welcome the provision for payment by instalment and the alternatives to imprisonment for default of payment. In many ways, we are dealing with people who have difficulties associated with income and employment. This is an important Bill to deal with what is essentially a sector of society that is disadvantaged. The heavy hand of the law is currently provided for in existing legislation and this Bill can ameliorate it to some extent and provide a more just system for dealing with the kinds of infringements of the law in question.

I welcome the Minister. The legislation is reforming and has many welcome aspects. It provides for an overhaul that has been needed for years. It is an effort by the State to set up an equitable system of fine recovery.

The updating and indexing of fines imposed by the District Court and, to a limited extent, some of the higher courts, is welcome. Many of the fines have not been updated for years and therefore do not serve as an adequate deterrent or penalty. The law can fall into disrepute or become an ass if a ridiculous fine is imposed that is not a deterrent at all. An example cited in this regard, namely that of a mother who was found drunk in charge of a three year old in 2001, points to a fine that has long needed to be increased.

The Bill, in Part 3, deals with the payment and recovery of fines. Section 13 empowers the court to consider the capacity of the debtor to pay. This has been allowed in civil arrangements but this Bill allows for far smoother steps to be taken. One step moves to the next very smoothly and they are outlined clearly in the legislation. In this way, the legislation is very good. The court can either be given a statement of means or consider the capacity of the debtor to pay. It can order a statement of means. If it feels it needs to consider the financial hardship of a debtor, it can do so. If an instalment order is needed, it can be given. If a fine remains unpaid, the order for recovery can be applied the day after it is due.

The procedure we are providing for is far smoother than the one in civil arrangements whereby one must keep going back to court for various orders. In this regard, the legislation is far-reaching and could ameliorate circumstances in other areas, if copied. It means the time taken up in the courts will be decreased.

The Bill provides for community service as a step in addressing default on payment of a fine. For those people who refuse to pay, whom I know exist from having spoken to people who say they would rather go to jail than pay for a fine, a prison sentence can be imposed. Sometimes people feel they cannot pay for political reasons. That various punitive steps are provided for is very important.

The concept of naming and shaming, as in Stubbs Gazette in the business sector, is very welcome because people do not like their neighbours to know they have not paid their debts. In this way, the legislation will be of assistance. The Bill gives teeth in an area where, until now, people were simply put in jail for not paying their State-imposed fines and it is definitely welcome.

Let me refer to gardaí and fines for drink driving and speeding offences. If, on the last day before which a fine is due, the 56th day, a fine is not paid, the relevant file is immediately removed from the garda's desk and entered into the court system. If the debtor has forgotten to pay the fine, he or she must face court. I accept the penalty must be higher for those who have simply forgotten to pay fines or who cannot do so to the Garda but their cases should not go to court. I refer to good, generally law-abiding people who may have been caught using a mobile telephone while driving or caught speeding. I accept completely that these are serious offences but believe the Garda should have the capacity not to enter the cases into the court system. The system needs to be put in place in respect of Garda fines.

Somebody told me some days ago that he went to the Garda station to pay a fine but could not do so by instalment. There is no way of taking financial hardship into account in respect of Garda-imposed fines. We need to put the system provided for into place in respect of the Garda law enforcement system. It is ludicrous that people who are seeking to pay money to the State cannot do so. Instead, they must wait for six to eight months until their cases go to court, which causes embarrassment. This is absolutely ludicrous in this day and age and I believe the Minister will accept that. This is fine legislation but it needs to be applied right across the system for the recovery of State fines. It should apply not only to court-imposed fines but also to on-the-spot fines imposed by gardaí.

I welcome the equality-of-impact aspect of the legislation. It provides a holistic way of dealing with fine payment. It is a truism that 2,000 people are sent to prison each year for failing to pay debts. Prison does not rehabilitate them in any way. Many are imprisoned not because they refused to pay but because they could not pay. There is no point in our jumping up and down saying everyone in prison cannot pay because some are imprisoned for refusing to pay. A fellow said to me some days ago that he would do jail rather than pay a fine. Let us be realistic about this. In this legislation, imprisonment is the very last step that can be taken. The Minister has dealt with it in a very measured way and ought to be complimented on it.

The busy nature of the District Court needs to be referred to. As a legal practitioner, I have an interest in this matter. There are cases in respect of which money could be collected, for example, cases in respect of enforcement of planning permission. These cases are taking nearly three or four years to be taken in certain parts of the country. In the civil debt collection area, contested cases are taking two to three years. The District Court is seriously busy and the problems that arise present an added burden of work.

The holistic approach we are to take, which involves the equality-of-impact arrangement, will ensure the law is fair and will have the same impact on all citizens. A well-off person can simply pay an imposed fine whereas a poorer person will not be able to do so. In the latter case, the instalment order will kick in and the assessment of the person's capacity to pay will be taken into account by the court. That is to be welcomed. In taking capacity to pay into account, the District Court judge must be assured he is doing so in an equitable and reasonable way. That will take time. District Courts, which are bursting at the seams throughout the country, face an increased burden and this needs to be addressed. I have said on numerous occasions in the House that there is a very simple answer, namely, the provision of separate family law courts which would deal with family law and domestic violence.

That has to be done if we are to ensure our District Courts run properly. Generally, the county council lists are the last to be done and this is an area in which a good deal of revenue might be collected. I appreciate the spirit of the legislation, which is excellent, but fundamentally we are going to have to consider setting up separate family law courts because they are taking up far too much of the court's time.

I cannot omit saying that this has given the State a smooth and effective manner for dealing with people who fail to or cannot pay their fines. Our civil law system is not as good and for the Joe Soap who is owed money by an individual, it has not improved. I note that the Minister said in his speech that he was going to look at the whole area of civil debt collection again. This is long overdue and I hope he will do this. Recently, it was stated that NAMA would be empowered to investigate the circumstances of builders living in palatial homes, with ten SUVs, staff, swimming pools, etc., whereas those builders not in NAMA can owe people too. Ordinary subcontractors get the same old excuse from such people every day to the effect that they, the creditors, are owed the money by the company, not the individual builder. This situation must be looked at because these people have no NAMA and no way of recovering their debts since our system does not have teeth.

Even if we were to impose a system such as this, it would be much better. It is interesting that the Bill indicates there will be recovery orders authorising a receiver — an approved person — to collect the money. Will this be a sheriff or a different person? I note from the Minister's speech that this will be a similar role to that of sheriff's collection. However, I rang the sheriff's office recently and asked exactly what it did. I did not get a satisfactory answer and I believe this is something that needs to be looked at immediately. As far as I am aware there is an issue about expenses for sheriffs, with them saying, in effect, that they are not going to seize goods any more. This is something that needs to be examined very carefully. I appreciate that people should not go to jail for being unable to pay a fine. That is correct but there needs to be a proper debt collection system in the civil area and the sheriffs, for some reason, are not performing adequately at the moment. I am not sure whether they are in a position to or will not collect goods, but if the State is to have a system whereby it collects its fines, then the civil side needs to be at least equal. That is to get off the point, however, and to take from excellent legislation. The Bill is very welcome and I welcome it into the House.

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I welcome the Bill on behalf of the Labour Party. We believe it to be an important reform in the system of criminal justice and it is something we have sought for a long time. Essentially, its most important purpose as I would see it is that it will reduce the numbers of people being sent to prison because they have not paid fines. That is something on which we are all agreed.

Before I talk about the Bill, I want to refer to something Senator McDonald said about the role of the District Court. Like Senator McDonald I have practised in the District Court, particularly on the criminal side, and I agree with her that we need to have a separate system of family law courts. In Dublin there is a separate District Court for family matters. Anyone who has practised in a rural area, however, will know that the District Court lists are impossible to manage. Criminal and family cases are often heard on separate days, but it is undesirable, generally, from the viewpoint of those appearing on criminal charges and those appearing on family matters and the systems need to be separated.

There is another matter of relevance to this Bill in terms of the District Court. It was very clear from my work as a practitioner that the District Court on the criminal side was dealing by and large with accused persons drawn from the most disadvantaged areas. Some years ago I, along with Trinity College colleagues in the community and health department, did a mapping study into the backgrounds of accused persons before the Dublin Metropolitan District Court in the Bridewell. We published those findings in a book called Crime and Poverty, not to give it a plug, in 1998. The disturbing finding was that not only were the majority of those appearing before the District Court being drawn from the most disadvantaged areas in Dublin, and this would be replicated throughout the country, the sentencing statistics showed they were more likely to be sent to prison than those from less disadvantaged areas for the same offences. That research gained considerable publicity at the time.

It is important to state, however, that there is a bias in the criminal justice system, particularly at District Court level where, granted, the offences are minor although statistically they comprise an enormous bulk, such that the persons being charged appear to be drawn from the more disadvantaged backgrounds. Our study also showed they were more likely to be sent to prison for the same offences. When that is coupled with the data the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform gave in his speech today to the effect that more than 3,000 persons were imprisoned in the first ten months of 2009 for failure to pay a fine, one sees that the scale of the problem is enormous. Opposition Members are justified in saying that this is far too many and we have been seeking legislation for years to address this point and ensure people are not being locked up on grounds of poverty or their inability to pay. The fear is that this is what is happening currently.

The Minister, in fairness, said the number was increasing and that the rate of increase highlights the need for this legislation. While I agree with that, I would disagree with the Minister when he says the figures show our prisons are not cluttered up by persons who are there for no reason other than they did not pay their fines. I believe nearly 3,500 is a considerable number of people. Only a small number of prison places are occupied by fine defaulters on any given night, but one is still talking about 3,336 persons who have been locked up for a period of time for failure to pay their fines.

The Minister said some can afford to pay but choose not to. We do not know what proportion that amounts to. We know from our research, as I have said, that many people in serious poverty appear before the District Court. I suggest the majority of those in prison are there because they cannot pay their fines. The Minister recognises this is a problem and that is why this Bill is being brought forward.

We must also remember that behind each of those numbers is an individual who has lost out in terms of child care, housing, job opportunities and being able to keep a job. He or she may well have lost significantly. It is not just a question of losing one's liberty but also that the consequence of this may have been very significant in many instances for those in employment or who have small children or for people in rented accommodation who have to keep up rent payments and so on. We have to bear that in mind as well.

We welcome initiatives such as this Bill that will reduce the numbers of people in prison for failure to pay fines. I know that is not the only aspect of the Bill and that it also provides, as the Minister has said, for the indexation of fines. Again, we welcome that. It also provides for an approved system for assessing offenders' financial circumstances and for the payment of fines by instalments. I would see the payment of fines by instalments as being very much in line with the policy objective of trying to reduce the number of people imprisoned for failure to pay, and this is an important change. Perhaps most important, however, is the relevant part of the Bill dealing with alternatives to imprisonment where offenders default in the payment of fines.

While I want to look at that some more, I wish to raise a couple of other points first. There has been great delay in bringing forward this legislation, and I regret it has taken so long. Last year, the House debated issues surrounding default of payment and imprisonment and we were promised this reforming legislation. In fact, however, the Bill was first published in 2007 and the Law Reform Commission made recommendations as long ago as 1991. It has taken a long time to prepare and develop legislation dealing with the policy objective of reducing the number of fine defaulters in prison and ensuring a more effective fines payment system, which is dealt with in a large part of this Bill. It is a shame it has taken so long to bring it before the Houses.

A point was raised by Deputy Sherlock during the Second Stage debate on the Bill in the Dáil about the facility to pay fines by instalments, but I see that section 14(8) remains the same. The facility to pay fines by instalments only applies where the fine is greater than €100. That provision could be remedied. I do not understand why that minimum level has been set and perhaps the Minister would explain it. As Deputy Sherlock said, many people are surviving solely on income from the Department of Social and Family Affairs and every penny of their weekly income is accounted for. A fine of as little as €50 could be a considerable burden. It would be of great assistance to those people if it could be paid in €5 or smaller instalments per week.

Indeed, if one is fined €100, section 14 will not apply. It only applies to fines that are greater than €100. Countless numbers of fines of €100 are imposed in the District Court. It is a significant amount if one must account for every penny of one's income and has outstanding obligations, for example, to pay back a moneylender, pay for children's food, rent and so forth. Will the Minister consider changing that minimum figure? He was asked to do so in the Dáil but I ask him again to consider it. A €100 fine is a standard fine figure that is imposed with routine regularity in the District Court, yet a €100 fine will not be capable of being paid in instalments. Only fines greater than €100 will qualify under section 14 for the facility for instalment payment. That is a pity given the overall purpose of the Bill, with which we all agree, and the very progressive changes the Bill generally makes to the fine payment system.

Another point raised by Deputy Sherlock, which is a hobby-horse of mine, deserves mention. We must monitor the effect of the Bill to ensure we are not still sending thousands of fine defaulters to prison every year. We must monitor sentencing practices. It would have been nice to see a provision in the Bill providing for statistical analysis of sentences. It is a real concern for anybody who is examining the criminal justice system or trying to map out the impact of criminal legislation that we still do not have a coherent system for gathering data on sentences. The Central Criminal Court provides very clear data, but it deals with only a tiny fraction of criminal cases. They are generally the most high profile cases, involving murder and rape. The vast bulk of criminal business is carried out in the District Court, in particular, and the Circuit Court for trials on indictment. In the case of these trials, their outcomes and particularly the outcome of the guilty pleas — 80% of criminal proceedings, and 90% in some cases, are dealt with by way of guilty plea — we do not have a coherent system for gathering the data on sentences that is necessary if we are to monitor the impact of this Bill and ensure it meets its policy objective of reducing the number of impecunious offenders being subjected to imprisonment because they cannot pay fines. The sentence is the fine but the alternative currently is imprisonment.

There is a need for careful monitoring of sentencing practice. To do it, however, there must be a system in place for gathering sentencing data. I have plenty of colleagues in the academic criminal and criminological area who have tried to do this for specific offences but they have done so through all sorts of means, including looking at newspaper reports of sentencing for sexual assault and rape. Clearly, that is not an ideal way to gather scientific data on sentencing. The Central Statistics Office, CSO, has taken over the role of the Garda in assembling crime statistics, while the annual prison reports also provide data. There are different sources from which data can be gathered. As I said earlier, the Central Criminal Court is a very good source of data from that court. However, we must put some type of system in place to provide a central repository of sentencing information so we can monitor whether persons are being routinely sent to prison for non-payment of fines after this legislation comes into effect.

I will turn to provisions in the Bill for alternatives to imprisonment for default of fine payments, which I very much welcome. They will permit, for the first time, a real alternative to deal with default. Section 15 allows the court to appoint a receiver to recover a fine or seize property belonging to a fine defaulter in order to recover from the sale of the property a sum equivalent to the value of the fine or any unpaid part of it. That is important because it will cover a situation where somebody has begun paying in instalments but has been unable to complete the payments. It will not just apply where there is an outright default. That is welcome. The order is made at the time the fine is imposed but is only activated when the offender has not paid by the due date and the receiver has been informed of the default by the Courts Service.

It is important to note that the receiver provision is not the final step. There is also the facility for the court to make a community service order if the offender consents and is suitable for community service, which is the usual provision where community service is being ordered. I fully support this. For a long time I and many others on this side of the House have argued for the need to give courts the facility to impose community service orders instead of imprisonment as the default where somebody does not pay a fine. It is welcome that the community service order will be the alternative to a fine, rather than imprisonment. It would be preferable if community service was the default rather than imprisonment, although I am not sure that will be the impact of this Bill.

For too long prison has been seen as the standard option in sentencing practice in this country. Community service and probation orders are the poor relations. We talk about alternatives to custody rather than seeing the alternative as the main sanction and custody simply a sanction of last resort, as it should be. I am struck by the figures that have been produced by the Minister. The probation service supervised only 1,667 community service orders in 2009. Considering that 3,366 persons were imprisoned for fine default in the first ten months of 2009 alone, it is troubling that in the full 12 months community service orders were imposed on considerably fewer than 2,000 people. We should be using the community service order more extensively.

Two final points should be made about community service orders. The research available shows there is remarkable divergence in practice in the imposition of community service orders across Ireland. It depends on the individual District Court judge. That should not continue. There should be far greater consistency in the application of community service orders and judges should be encouraged to use them rather than imprisonment. There is over-use of imprisonment, particularly at District Court level. To do that and to ensure this Bill has a full effect in terms of keeping people out of prison for fine default there must be adequate resourcing of the probation service. Probation officers supervise community service orders, including the community service orders where persons cannot pay fines and have no property that may be recovered to pay their fines.

There is a problem with the resourcing of the probation service. It is under-resourced and that is partly the reason that many District Court judges are reluctant to impose community service orders. That is the practical reality. However, the cost of keeping somebody in prison, even for one or two nights, is far greater than the cost of having him or her on probation and having a working and efficient probation service. There is clearly a financial imperative to increasing the use of community service and the resources for the probation service. However, I welcome the Bill.

It has been interesting to listen to the contributions of Senators in the legal profession about their experience of how the system works downstream of the law. I wish to make a brief contribution on my experience as a councillor in recent times.

The Bill will be welcomed the length and breadth of Ireland by councillors who continually have to deal with very distressed individuals who for relatively minor offences find themselves, with their families and individual reputations, embroiled in what is a terrible ordeal, even if it only involves a trip to Mountjoy Prison for half a day and back home again. Many have undeservedly had to go through this ordeal and the matter falls into the laps of working councillors who must make representations about such cases. Not only is the courts system being clogged up but the local government system can also find itself snowed under. In that context and in the context of general equity and the degree to which understanding and compassion have been expressed, I welcome the Bill in broad and specific terms. However, I take Senator Bacik's point about the €100 minimum figure, below which instalment payments are not possible. There are cases in which such a form of payment should be considered.

For my own purposes, I have listed the main points of the Bill under the three headings, each beginning with the letter "i", the first of which is "indexation". I listened to Senator Regan and take him at his word that it is subtle and responsive, as I have not yet managed to unpick it. The second heading is "instalment payments" while the third is "imprisonment alternatives". That is my mnemonic for working through the Bill.

The Irish Penal Reform Trust, the stated goal of which is to campaign for the rights of everyone involved in the penal system, with prison being a last resort, has also welcomed the Bill. The notion that prison should be seen as the point of last resort lies at the heart of how the Bill will be applied. I welcome the fact that community service orders and the seizure of goods are interim measures before the final step will be taken. I presume this will only happen if a person refuses rather than is unable to pay a fine.

From the point of view of the Green Party, the Bill is progressive and in line with our policy of pursuing alternatives to custody. It is also an agreed item between the two parties in government in the revised programme for Government and, in that context, is to be welcomed.

We can learn from the experience of successful penal reform systems in countries such as Finland, Germany and Canada, in which a conscious decision was made to reduce the prison population through the implementation of programmes of community alternatives to custody. The Bill provides a perfect example of how this can work, whereby people can be diverted from a custodial sentence or a visit to prison for a day which can be highly disruptive. The Green Party is committed to bringing about this kind of change and, as such, is happy to support the Bill.

I refer to Senator McDonald's contribution. The Law Reform Commission proposed the establishment of a central debt enforcement office to divert many of these cases away from the courts. Having listened to Senator Bacik's descriptions of the clogged-up system, I suggest this proposal might be worthy of consideration and one which the Green Party would support. Such an approach would offer a quicker and cheaper non-judicial debt settlement process which would distinguish between those who will not pay and those who cannot pay. Those who will not pay should always remain exposed to the ultimate threat of imprisonment.

We have one worry in the area of fines imposed for breaches of environmental regulations. Sometimes those who breach such regulations are willing to pay a fine on successive occasions. There is a need for a mechanism, whereby this can be recognised. Some people work in the shadier parts of the economy — the black economy. Particularly for those involved in the smuggling of diesel and fuel the imposition of a fine is not a deterrent. I do not want to think the Bill might make life easier for these larriers and cowboys.

I welcome the Bill which I am happy to support.

I congratulate the Minister and his officials for their tremendous work on the Bill which, as Senator Regan stated, is most welcome. I believe Senator Bacik is also supportive of it.

I commend the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, for his visionary national initiative and proposal to break the stigma attached to mental illness over a period of two years. We are all behind him 100% in this work.

The Bill is both necessary and timely, given the predicament in which so many find themselves. It will bring the monetary value of fines up to date by indexing all existing District Court maximum fines and increasing certain fines imposed by the higher courts. It will also give the courts the power to inquire into the capacity of persons to pay fines in order to implement a policy of equality of impact. It will provide for the payment of fines by instalments and the courts with alternatives to imprisonment for default in the payment of fines.

The assessment of ability to pay and the concept of equality of impact are very important. It is a new concept in Irish law. In line with this policy, the courts must ensure, in so far as practicable, the effect of a fine on a person or his or her dependants is not significantly abated or made more severe by reason of his or her financial circumstances. They are obliged, therefore, to inquire into a person's financial circumstances and may then impose a fine that is higher or lower than, or equal to, the otherwise appropriate fine. They will also have the power to direct that a fine may be paid by instalments, if they are satisfied that requiring a person to pay up front by the due date would place that person or his or her dependants under undue financial hardship. This will greatly facilitate a smoother and more efficient collection of fines.

There can be no doubt a scheme for paying fines by instalments will pose an administrative challenge for the Courts Service. To reduce the burden, it has been decided that the payment by instalments system will apply only to fines in excess of €100. As soon as the system is up and running smoothly, that amount can, if necessary, be reviewed. However, for the present it is a prudent but relatively minor limitation on the operation of the scheme. It is also prudent to place a time limit for full payment of the fine and the norm will be for instalments to be spread over one year. However, the person on whom a fine has been imposed may apply to the court for an extension of time and the court may grant the extension for a period of not more than a further year. In other words, there are no circumstances where the payment of the fine by instalments can be spread beyond two years. The extension of up to one year is by no means automatic.

This Bill will introduce greater fairness and equity in the administration of fines. This is particularly important in the current economic climate, when so many families are facing catastrophic personal debt.

I welcome the Fines Bill 2009. The cost to the State of keeping an offender in prison for one week has been estimated at more than €2,000, a sum in excess of the great majority of court fines.

I apologise for interrupting Senator Quinn, but I remind Members that they cannot hold discussions with officials in the Chamber. Room is available outside if they wish to discuss matters.

I was unsure whether I had done something wrong.

The 12-year term for bankruptcy is longer than many jail terms handed down for manslaughter. According to the Free Legal Advice Centre, 276 people were imprisoned last year, some of them twice, on foot of non-payment of civil debt court orders.

The jump in the number of people being imprisoned is worrying and I assume it is due to the recession. Between January 2009 and the end of October 2009, 3,366 people were imprisoned, an increase of over 50% on the total figure for 2008.

We have a great need for this Bill but concerns arise that it does not go far enough. The recommendations of the Law Reform Commission need to be taken on board in a number of areas. The commission made 122 provisional recommendations for reform. It proposed the establishment of a central debt enforcement office that would divert most cases away from the courts to provide cheaper and quicker non-judicial debt settlements through the attachment of earnings. In Finland, where fines are linked to income, one businessman was fined €250,000 for speeding on his motorbike. The commission distinguished between individuals who will not pay and those who cannot pay, with the former remaining exposed to imprisonment. It is estimated that approximately 2,000 prison places could be freed in our prisons if such proposals were implemented.

I am disappointed there are no proposals to end the practice whereby people can be imprisoned for the non-payment of civil debt despite calls from the UN Human Rights Committee to end it. Perhaps we should also consider giving people the opportunity to repay some of their debts with moneys that are otherwise tied up in pension funds. Pension savers must be at least 50 years old before they can touch their funds, thus denying them a valuable asset that could help to dig them out of debt. Brendan Burgess, founder of the consumer finance website, www.askaboutmoney.com, and a member of the Government’s expert group on indebtedness, believes pensions should form part of a deal with creditors. He has stated that participants in debt settlement schemes:

... should not be able to benefit from a substantial write-off of their debts while they have a valuable pension fund asset ... they should stop contributing so that the borrower has more funds available to pay their debts ... If a debtor has a defined contribution pension scheme, then the fund should be available to pay off any creditors as part of the scheme.

It is worthwhile to examine the accessibility of pension funds when it comes to tackling debt restructuring.

We should also consider how the Irish Credit Bureau reports borrowers' payment histories in terms of only indicating payments made on time or missed. It could be described as a very inflexible system because there is little scope for grey areas, such as partial payments or those who were late by a few days. This has serious consequences for rescheduling debts, even with the agreement of creditors, because credit files will treat the debtors as being in default. This black mark stays on their files for five years. We desperately need a system whereby restructured payments are classed as such by the Irish Credit Bureau rather than treated as defaults and arrears.

At the same time, we have to reconsider our approach to bankruptcy. If one is declared bankrupt, the restrictions applied become a millstone around one's neck for the next 12 years. In England and Wales, one can be in bankruptcy for as little as 12 months. If Alan Sugar and Donald Trump had gone bankrupt in Ireland, they would not have been in a position to create new businesses, take new risks or succeed on a larger scale. F.W. Woolworth went bankrupt three times before he succeeded in building up his empire. We have to give people at least some chance of getting out of bankruptcy and, perhaps, paying their debts at a later stage.

The Irish Penal Reform Trust has made several observations on the Bill which need to be considered in the context of its later Stages. For example, section 12(b), refers to the aggregate value of all property, whether real or personal. I agree that the estimated value of property should be assessed together with the potential for sale in the prevailing real estate market.

What is certain is that most people are willing to pay personal fines and debts, provided due account is taken of their financial circumstances. Society will benefit and the State will save money if we take the first steps in overhauling our debt enforcement procedures with this Bill. I commend the Bill to the House and I am sure it will be accepted by all Senators. However, it will be worthwhile to scrutinise it further on Committee Stage with a view to improving it and ensuring it addresses the concerns raised today.

I welcome this progressive Bill which deals with an area that has come into sharper focus as a result of the economic downturn and the difficulties people face in paying fines and debts. The Bill distinguishes for the first time between those who have the capacity to pay and those who willfully refuse to pay them. I think this will be viewed as an equitable measure.

The indexation provision, which is one of the cornerstones of the Bill, is interesting. We have in the recent past discussed the erosion of the deterrent power of fines due to inflation. Indexation is to be welcomed for taking account of that lacuna in the law. I note that the schedule to be produced will give minimum fines in some instances and maximum fines in all instances. In that regard, perhaps it would have been useful had the Bill had a Schedule which indicated what those fines were. I would like to think there would be Oireachtas scrutiny of the application of the indexation from time to time so that they can be looked at and that there would be a mechanism for the Oireachtas, in conjunction with the Minister, at least to review the relevance of fines for offences. The concept is good in that the fines will be categorised. I suppose that will give rise to some anomalies initially and I note there is provision in the Bill to deal with that. It is interesting that the Prohibition of Incitement to Racial Religious or National Hatred Act 1989 was taken as one of the examples in the briefing documentation.

It seems good that ability to pay, an issue to do with the Scandinavian experience, of which I heard Senator Quinn be an exponent, not only today but previously, should become a factor in the determination of the fine. The example he gave shows to some extent an injustice in it whereby somebody could be fined up to €250,000. In our system it is good that while a judge will have discretion to apply a fine, he or she will not be able to exceed the maximum specified in the schedule.

However, I would hope in the exercise of judicial discretion that ability to pay would be only one component of a judge's determination of the fine. I apologise for talking to the officials earlier. I was merely trying to clarify a particular query. Where a person is caught committing a speeding offence, for example, a fairly common offence which might illustrate the point quite clearly, and going at 120 mph or 130 mph, which is obviously a particularly dangerous speed, the judge might veer towards the minimum of the fine specified for that offence because the person does not have financial resources, whereas a person of good financial resources who is caught exceeding the speed limit, perhaps by only a couple of kilometres per hour and marginally over the speed limit, ends up with the maximum fine. It would appear there could be potential for an injustice in that regard. The nature and extent of the offence should really be the primary determining factor in the penalty imposed. One would hope that judicial discretion would iron that out, but I wonder whether within the framework of the Bill there should be recognition of and regard for that point. If ability to pay becomes the overriding criteria, there is a risk we could end up bringing the law into disrepute. It is something I would ask to be looked at. In general, I am not opposed to the concept of ability to pay but the manner in which it is applied must be monitored to ensure it operates without creating further anomalies or weaknesses within the legal system.

I agree, as I often do, with a point made by Senator Quinn about the attachment to earnings. He is one of the sounder Members of this House. On the alternatives to imprisonment, I note a judge will have powers to appoint a receiver where somebody has not responded over a period to his or her various obligations received from the courts to pay fines. I would make two points in that regard. The first is that the operation of the sheriff scheme has been effective and there have been good examples of it working in practice. However, there have been other examples which would be the corollary of that. I would have concerns about the heavy-handedness of the powers we give to persons in these positions and the risk of them taking impromptu action which may fail to take all aspects into account and may cause an injustice to the person involved. I do not see it in the Bill, but I would like to think that where the State assumes to itself what are draconian powers, there should be protection for the citizen. Where those powers are exercised wrongly and excessively by the authorised officers, the citizen offended in this regard should have a right to fairly significant compensation so that thereis an onus for a measured and reasonable exercise of such draconian powers. Perhaps the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, will be able to point out where this is dealt with in the legislation.

The second point is that I would have thought it better to have that power trigger later. Community service and attachment to earnings are issues which perhaps should come prior to the exercise of that provision in the Bill to appoint a receiver, that the involvement of a receiver would be a last resort. It strikes me there is a cost involved. The fines may not be that high but it could be quite expensive to get somebody involved directly to deal with this. It is something I would like us to look at.

I will finish on this point about community service. I note there is significant spare capacity in that area. It goes back to many of the discussions in this House about the costs of public service. This will help to shore up that excess capacity within the probation and welfare service which does good work to supervise community service. I note that if it can be increased fourfold, there is obviously significant excess staffing. However, it is an area which we could use to recover the costs of the fines, not only through the work but perhaps by placing persons in jobs where the remuneration would come back to whoever in the State was collecting the fines.

I thank all the Senators who contributed and ensured the debate was a positive and interesting discussion on the fines system in the country. The Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, already explained in his opening speech that the system of indexing proposed in the Bill might appear quite complex. However, I would suggest that while several tables of figures might seem at first glance intimidating, the scheme of indexation proposed in the Bill is not too difficult to understand. It is the system recommended by the Law Reform Commission in two reports and there is no realistic alternative scheme. We do not want to end up with a scheme under which a wealthy person could be fined several thousand euro for, say, throwing a cigarette butt on the pavement. Even if one believes someone who has this sort of money can afford to pay such a large amount, there would be two insurmountable obstacles. First, it is unlikely the courts would accept such a fine was proportionate to the offence committed and, second, the District Court is a court of summary jurisdiction in which there must be an upper limit to the amount of fines it can impose.

A total of 1,335 persons were imprisoned in 2007 solely for the non-payment of fines, most of whom would have had a short stay in prison. The figure rose to 2,154 in 2008 and 3,336 for the first ten months of 2009. This indicates greater enforcement of the laws on default and highlights the pressing need for this legislation.

While the issue of prison spaces taken up by fine defaulters is minor, the more important issue is ensuring persons are given every opportunity to pay their fines and in cases of default realistic alternatives to imprisonment are in place. That issue is more adequately dealt with in the Bill.

Section 17 amends the scale in section 2 of the Courts (No. 2) Act 1986 which sets out the maximum terms of imprisonment for defaulting on the payment of a fine imposed in the District Court. A maximum term of imprisonment is provided for, the length of which depends on the scale of fine default. Section 17 reduces the periods of imprisonment substantially and increases the levels of fine default in the scale. It also allows the Courts Service to publish the names and addresses of fine defaulters. Even though justice is administered in public and a fine imposed on a particular individual was published in a local or national newspaper, it might not be public knowledge that it was not paid. The section will also ensure the maximum level of compliance with the payment of fines. While a small minority may not care, most people who default on the payment of fines will no more wish to have their names on the list of defaulters than they would wish to see their neighbours and relatives see their property being seized for non-payment. The measures aimed at the recovery of fines should result in a substantially reduced level of fine default with a consequential reduced impact on the availability of prison spaces and a significant reduction in the number of warrants for imprisonment being executed by the Garda.

Senator McDonald asked if the Courts Service had the resources to implement the Bill's measures. It will involve additional work and is a matter for the Courts Service to introduce efficient procedures, including the use of modern technology, to ensure the provisions operate smoothly. Departmental officials are in consultation with the service on the implementation of the legislation. Some amendments were made to it in the Dáil to reduce the immediate impact of the system on the Courts Service.

Senator McDonald also inquired about how the receiver provisions would work. Receivers will perform similar duties to sheriffs and Revenue sheriffs, that is, seize and sell property. The main difference is that Revenue sheriffs are responsible for the enforcement of Revenue certificates under section 485 of the Income Tax Act 1967. The Dublin and Cork sheriffs are responsible to the courts for the enforcement of court orders in civil proceedings, while receivers will act on the instructions of the court to recover property to the value of an unpaid fine.

All sheriffs are appointed by the Government at the request of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform or the Minister for Finance. Their remuneration is set by the former with the consent of the latter in a fees order, last updated in 2005. They are independent agents, not civil servants. An expression of interest request to act as receivers will be drawn up and tender papers will be issued to suitably qualified candidates. An appointment to the position will be subject to contracts between the Courts Service and the receivers.

Experience in this field has been gained in the past few years. A pilot scheme ran from January 2006 to June 2006 involving the engagement of an external credit management agency to manage and attempt to collect a sample of overdue court imposed fines. The pilot scheme was considered successful and in late 2008 an expression of interest request for the collection of fines was placed to allow for the outsourcing of the collection of court imposed fines. There was a good response which resulted in the drawing up of a final tender. While the collection of overdue fines is different from the role envisaged for receivers, the experience suggests there will be no shortage of suitably qualified firms interested in the position.

Section 15(2) states a recovery order will not have effect until the receiver is informed of a default by the Courts Service. This will allow the credit management agency to make a final effort to be paid.

Senator Regan said the primary legislation should not be amended by regulation, as provided for in section 11 which is not a unique provision. For example, such a provision is contained in the British-Irish Agreement Act 1999. The regulations would not make substantive changes to the legislation but simply facilitate its implementation, should it prove necessary. On the other hand, increasing the level of fines might be regarded as a substantive change, even though they would not represent real increases.

Senator McDonald referred to the consequences for persons who did not pay on-the-spot fines. The Minister will examine this point later, as the Bill does not deal with on-the-spot or fixed fines but court-imposed fines on conviction for offences.

Senator Bacik referred to the €100 threshold for the payment by instalment provisions to apply. This is a prudent provision which will facilitate the introduction of the instalment facility and can be examined when the legislation is running smoothly.

Senator Bacik also stated persons from deprived backgrounds were most likely to be imprisoned. One reason for this is that judges may consider that for various reasons such persons are less likely to pay fines. Again, the Bill will remedy this issue. As of Monday last, there were four persons in prison for the non-payment of fines. The only alternate action in the case of default and a community service order is imprisonment.

Senator Quinn raised the recommendation made by the Law Reform Commission for a central debt enforcement office. The Bill deals with fines, not civil debts which the Minister is examining in another context. Few people are in prison for the non-payment of civil debts. The number committed to prison for the non-payment of fines is slightly misleading, as it pertains to the number in prison on any single night and is not significant. I have already mentioned that there were four.

Senator Walsh thought there was potential for unfairness in the ability to pay provisions. I emphasise that the Judiciary will retain full discretion regarding the amount of fine imposed as long as it is within the statutory limits. However, there is no point in imposing a level of fine that the person is clearly unable to pay as it could result in an injustice being done to deprived persons and would most likely lead to imprisonment. In that context, there could be a level of injustice but it would take into account the person's ability to pay.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

Dé Máirt seo chugainn.

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 27 April 2010.

When is it proposed to sit again?

Ag 2.30 p.m. dé Máirt seo chugainn.

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