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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 6 May 2010

Vol. 202 No. 8

Order of Business.

The Order of Business is No. 1, Child Care (Amendment) Bill 2009 — Report Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business.

Against the odds, the people are doing their best to get themselves out of the recession. The first public sector unions to vote have voted in favour of the Croke Park deal. I hope today IMPACT will stop its industrial action in the HSE. I ask the Leader for a debate soon on the Croke Park deal in order that we can express our views on the issue. I also ask that we continue to hold debates on the economy as events unfold; as we know, they are changing rapidly.

I ask the Leader for an urgent debate on the prison system. Our prisons are not full of drug dealers and gangland criminals but full of people who do not pay small fines. They are chock-a-block with non-nationals awaiting deportation from the country because the deportation system is moving too slowly. We must hold a debate on the people whom we incarcerate because there must be another option other than jailing the majority in the way we do.

It is a while since we received any response from Government Members on the question of Seanad reform, to which they were all committed. Can we take it that the Minister for Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, has conceded to the main Government party on the issue? Is Seanad reform a dead duck? Is it dead in the water? Are we likely to hear any more on it? We were promised legislation on at least three occasions and the Minister assured us that he would bring it forward. It now seems Fianna Fáil has effectively outmanoeuvred the Green Party which was completely committed to Seanad reform but is now not able to deliver on it. I would appreciate a response from the Leader in order that we can establish that nothing is happening. If it is a win for Fianna Fáil over its Government partners, it should tell us in order that we can see where we are going. At least, we would then know where various parties stood on the issue.

A Senator

It is a partnership Government.

I concur with the points made by Senator Twomey on the Croke Park agreement. The first union to come back with a result, although it has not received much notice or publicity, is the Civil Service executive union, CPSU, a key union. It has accepted the deal by a majority of two to one. The clarifications given by the Government last night on teachers' contracts are extraordinarily helpful in dispelling some of the myths and misinformation spread regarding the impact on teaching. The clarifications given by the Labour Court to IMPACT will be very helpful whatever happens at the executive union today. We will make these points in more detail next week. Until then, it is most important that Ministers try to win the confidence of public sector workers who do not believe or trust them and are angry at them. The Government should acknowledge that they have also taken a hit on a number of occasions and emphasise that it is committed to the Croke Park agreement in letter and in spirit. These simple things, put nicely to the people, would make a difference.

I cautiously welcome the news that the economy has performed in line with expectations. While it is a positive sign, we should not get carried away because there are, unfortunately, a number of potential developments that may impact on our future economic recovery. The first is the situation in Greece where, as we saw yesterday, the anger shows no sign of abating. If that contagion spreads to other Mediterranean countries, it could impact on our economic recovery.

The second issue is a separate matter relating to the United Kingdom. Anyone who has been following the election campaign there will have been struck by the absence of discussion of the elephant in the room, the state of the UK economy. The first thing the government which is elected will have to do, regardless of its colour, is to introduce a budget and its impact on this country will be significant. As our exporters depend heavily on the UK market, I worry about its impact on the economy and particularly jobs.

On a related matter, there is also the impact the UK budget will have on people's discretionary spending, particularly with regard to tourism. One of our most important tourism markets is the United Kingdom. I welcome the Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport, Deputy Hanafin's announcement this morning of a €20 million fund for marketing Ireland in the United Kingdom. It will help. With the forthcoming economic contraction in the United Kingdom and the ongoing disruption caused by Eyjafjallajökull, we could have a very difficult summer; therefore, we need to send the message that Ireland is open for business and that if people get stuck here, we will look after them. We must learn lessons from what happened last month when many transport providers were unprepared for what was an unprecedented occurrence. The Minister should invite representatives of the Irish Aviation Authority, the airlines and the ferry companies to meet her to ascertain what measures they are putting in place to ensure future interruptions will be dealt with properly.

I welcome Senator Hannigan's acknowledgement of the most recent Exchequer returns which show that taxation receipts for this year are on target, public expenditure is being controlled and the deficit is reducing for the first time in a long time. It is probably more a triumph of better forecasting in a section which had a very bad record in the past, but we should acknowledge that it is a small sign of achievement. It should be borne in mind when we hold a debate on the external factors that might impede our further progress.

I agree with Senator O'Toole that we must have a debate both before and after the vote on the Croke Park agreement. We must also stress the importance of achieving agreement on it. I acknowledge the contributions of Members on the other side of the House who have called for support for the agreement. It would be reprehensible in the extreme if anyone sought to make political capital from the uncertainty and to foster that uncertainty in a way that would hinder our future economic progress.

With regard to calls for a debate on Seanad reform——

Legislation actually.

The debate would accompany the legislation. The issue is still very much to the fore in terms of the legislation to be brought forward. As a legislative priority, I must accept it is behind the local government Bill relating to the Dublin mayoral election and the production of a White Paper on local government reform. However, when these two issues are dealt with, I hope by the end of this session, we will proceed to legislation dealing with Seanad reform.

Will the Leader arrange a debate on the status of Transport 21 and the amazing revelation yesterday regarding the Dublin interconnector or the Dublin underground DART section? The Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey, indicated that he had met representatives of Iarnród Éireann very recently and had a discussion with its board but found out for the first time yesterday afternoon on radio that Iarnród Éireann was delaying the project by two years. The Minister was not aware of a change in the timing of the most important infrastructural project for the Dublin region. The explanation given by Iarnród Éireann was a delay in the planning process for the interconnector project, with which I am involved. How can the planning process be responsible for the delay in the project, given that Iarnród Éireann has not yet submitted the planning application?

This is a €2 billion project. Who is running the delivery of transport services in Dublin? Is it Iarnród Éireann? How can it make a decision on one of most important projects in Transport 21 without the Minister for Transport knowing what is happening? The Minister had to question Iarnród Éireann, but the explanation it gave was simply not credible. As it has not yet submitted the planning application for the project, how can it blame that process? I am reluctantly forced to conclude that it has gone out of control on this issue. How can it make a decision on a project which the Government has committed to deliver without the Government being aware of what is happening? It is vital that we have a debate on the issue.

I join other Members in welcoming the fact that the first union has approved the Croke Park deal. It is a very positive development, with the other positive news in recent days. The Exchequer returns are showing signs of improvement. While I would not yet call for a celebration, the signs are encouraging and show that the policies, although painful, are beginning to produce the dividends for which we all yearn.

In recent weeks the Quinn Group has been the subject of major discussion. There are many jobs in the group which we hope can be maintained. As a gesture of solidarity, the Leader of the House and other party leaders in this House and, perhaps, the party leaders in the Lower House could call on all Irish people whose insurance policies are due to be renewed in the coming months not to drop the broker or company with which they are dealing but at least to seek a quote for the business from Quinn Insurance. It would be an interesting way to show support for the company and, if it is in a position to compete, we could seek to support the almost 6,000 people employed there. It would be an innovative move. I am aware the issue is close to the Cathaoirleach's heart as we have discussed it in the past.

I seek a debate on the funding of sports and recreational infrastructure. The sports capital programme was a very useful grants scheme. It affected every community for a relatively small amount of money; I believe the budget was approximately €50 million per annum. We could usefully reintroduce that programme. It would benefit every community and, more importantly, create much needed employment in small schemes in all parts of the country. I ask the Leader to contact the Department of Finance and the Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport to see if it could be brought forward in the short term.

Before calling the next speaker, I welcome to the Distinguished Visitors Gallery the UNICEF Indonesia group which is visiting Leinster House. It includes a number of parliamentarians.

Last Friday my office rang a Department to ask if there was a reply to a letter I had sent in the first week of March. We were told that owing to the work to rule since January no letters were being replied to. There are times when we can put up with a certain amount of difficulty, but to have a work to rule for that length of time without a function being performed is impossible. We must urge that a conclusion be reached soon rather than drag our feet on the matter.

I also heard a report on radio today that Beaumont Hospital had to close approximately 56 beds owing to budget controls. We seem to have lost all sense of patriotism. There must be some way of acknowledging that we are much better off than we were 20 or ten years ago. Consider what happened in Greece yesterday and Latvia recently, where everyone had to take a pay cut of approximately 40% with the arrival of the IMF. Those of us who are fortunate enough to be in employment and have an income should, rather than taking it out on those who need hospital beds in Beaumont Hospital or elsewhere, say they are willing to sacrifice and give up something to help the country at this time. What happened in Greece yesterday was horrific. The danger is that even in the case of Greece, the people do not understand or recognise that it is not in their hands. They must do something themselves if they are to solve the problem.

I support the call for a debate on the Croke Park agreement. We should compliment the members of Fine Gael on the comments they have been making for some time about the agreement. No doubt it is having an effect on the trade unions which are now drawing back and reflecting on what is on offer. For that reason, everyone who has an opportunity should make their views known in this regard.

It is also important at this stage to be sensitive to the needs of the trade union movement. The movement in this country has a proud and responsible reputation. If one goes back in history to the 1913 lockout, it is quite clear where we have come in the meantime through the leadership provided by the trade union movement. Looking at what is happening in Greece, I can recall some of the debates we had in this House initially at the beginning of the recession when there was a suggestion that we could end up with turmoil and violence on the streets. One of the reasons that has not happened is because of the reputation and the history of the trade union movement, the restraints they bring about as a result of organised labour and the fact there is a voice for those who feel dispossessed and, at the same time, feel they are not getting an equal opportunity. For that reason, I hope that in the context of the Croke Park agreement we will listen closely to what the trade union movement has to say because if we look at what comes without having that negotiation, reflection and debate, we can see what happened in Greece.

Again, I salute the Fine Gael Party.

I am convinced at this stage that there is a very good opportunity, with the Government, Opposition, trade union movement and all concerned for the welfare of this country. I genuinely believe we have the basis for bringing about a solution to the difficulties we now face.

I join Senator MacSharry in his call to people to support Quinn Insurance as an indigenous company giving employment in an area of the country that has been devastated by emigration and the Northern Ireland conflict. It is important that people support Quinn Insurance by renewing their policies with it and that it is seen as an act of patriotism. As Seán and Patricia Quinn leave the board of Quinn Direct, one must acknowledge the trauma the family has been through in recent weeks and how difficult it must be for them.

A few matters need to be put on the record of the House in respect of this company. I call on the Leader to convey at the highest level of Government that it is critical we get an arrangement in place that would preserve the jobs locally. It is also critical we get the UK market fully opened and we get the commercial business up and running there immediately.

We should look at job subsidisation given that for every job lost, three related jobs will go and given the cost of that in terms of welfare, etc. The globalisation fund, which was invoked in the case of Dell and brought €22 million to the south west, should be activated by the Government. It involves a domestic contribution but a considerable sum of money is available from the EU under the fund and that should be put in place. The colleges of further studies, notably the one in Cavan, should get extra enrolment places.

I ask the Leader to have the Minister come to the House at the earliest convenience so that Members can get an update. If this was in another location, one wonders whether more attention would be paid to it. This matter is of such gravity that there should be a discussion on it in this House every day for a significant period of time.

I add my voice to those who have welcomed the fact that international markets and international commentary are much more positive about the Irish economic situation. It is important from our own perspective to keep putting that on record. One can not only talk up an economy but swiftly talk it down as well, as I discovered last week when looking at international news about Portugal where, with a few bad words, the stock market went down at a rate of knots that was not equivalent to the difficulties that country was in. It is important we recognise that.

I add my voice to Senator Quinn's request that we get back to normality as quickly as possible in the answering of correspondence and issues that we bring to the attention of various Departments and individuals. Those in most difficulty are also bearing the brunt of this particular action. I accept it is tied to industrial action and that there is a bigger picture, but I see the real consequences for people who are unable to get serious problems solved or even to get answers.

There will soon be legislation on head shops. We should ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, perhaps in the context of that discussion on dealing with the illegal drugs scene, to look at providing more drug sniffer dogs, either for Customs and Excise or the Garda. At present, our entire complement of drug sniffer dogs is between 12 and 20 and is more likely closer to 12 than 20. There are regions in England where each town would have such numbers. It is an effective way of detecting drugs.

Under the Arts Act 2003, a sub-committee on arts and education was formed and a report commissioned. The report, to my knowledge, has been completed for a number of years and has never been published. Is it possible to find out from the Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport the current status of the arts in education report of the sub-committee set up under the Arts Act 2003?

I again ask the Leader to bring forward a debate on the public sector agreement, the so-called Croke Park deal. It is important we have this debate this week and I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that we have it today. It is important for two reasons. First, it is about leadership. Unlike other political parties, the Fine Gael Party has been strong on the need for reform of the public sector. As an advocate of the public service workers, I think it behoves all of us to show we are serious about reform of this country and of our economic situation. Second, this deal is the best available. While I understand the frustration of the public sector workers, many of whom are my friends and former colleagues, it is important this deal is passed. It is important that all political leaders would stand up and be counted when it comes to reform of the public sector and solidarity with the public sector workers.

I ask for a debate on Transport 21. It is extraordinary and beyond belief that a Minister in charge of a Department and in charge of Iarnród Éireann can admit in the Dáil Chamber yesterday that he did not know about a particular project being scrapped, stopped or stalled. Who is in charge of Government policy? We tabled an Adjournment matter in this House about the National Roads Authority, NRA, and were told the Minister has no responsibility for it. We made a request about Iarnród Éireann and Bus Éireann and were told the Minister has no direct responsibility. Who drives Government policy on transport? What is the point in having a Minister in charge of transport if we cannot get questions answered and hold Adjournment debates on the topic? Who is in charge? Can the Leader answer that question? Is Mr. Lynch in charge of Iarnród Éireann and somebody else in charge of something else? Is the Minister for Transport sitting behind a desk doing the crossword or is he driving policy to end the gridlock on the roads and to provide proper infrastructure in the cities and towns? That is a fundamental question that needs to be asked.

Senator Buttimer stated he was proposing an amendment to the Order of Business to hold a debate on the Croke Park agreement today. Is that correct?

I ask for a debate on economic recovery because there are indications that we can begin to hope that the extreme pain the contraction of the economy has caused to those in the public sector in terms of wages and pensions and to those in the private sector in terms of job losses and pay cuts and the process we all have experienced and suffered looks like it could be coming to a close. I do not wish to get ahead of myself in saying this, but a debate on economic recovery could be timely, given the emergence of the green economy as offering a possible way out of the current situation. The chairman of the UK sustainable commission, Mr. Will Day, is coming to Ireland next week. He has identified Ireland as having significant natural advantages on which we can build, not least of which is the ICT sector which has been developed in the past 20 to 30 years and provides an ideal crossing point or crossover with the smart economy and the green economy as it begins to develop. Ireland is well placed in terms of its natural advantages and indigenous skills base to take advantage of these new opportunities.

I am baffled by the decision of the European Commission to allow former Commissioner McCreevy to take his place on the Ryanair board as a non-executive director. While I acknowledge his right to do so and Ryanair's right to invite him, for the Commission, through its ad hoc ethics committee, to decide it was appropriate and basically leave it up to him to decide not to comment on what was going on in regard to regional airports is bewildering.

We have no control over what happens at such committees.

I wish to comment on what Senator O'Reilly said about Seán Quinn and the Quinn Group. While everyone has sympathy for the workforce, we should not make a martyr of Seán Quinn in the process. We should not necessarily make a hero of the man because in many ways he has been a menace as regards what has happened in this country. He certainly contributed to the sinking of a bank which has caused extraordinary problems in the economy. Let us not lionise him now that he is departing. I welcome his departure.

I do not wish the Senator to make accusations against a person who is not present to defend himself. I will allow the Senator to raise the point with the Leader and ask him to raise it with someone else.

I am responding to what was said and trying to express the other point of view.

The other speaker was seeking to have daily debates on the efforts being made to do something for the catchment area or region.

If we are going to eulogise someone, I presume there is another point of view which should also be expressed and I was trying to do so. If I was out of order, I apologise, but I stand over what I said.

I address the issue of Iarnród Éireann which was raised by Senators Donohoe and Buttimer. What is happening at Iarnród Éireann is absolutely incredible. The Minister for Transport stated in the Dáil yesterday that he did not know what was happening with a major project. If that is the case, we are in difficulties. This House should debate the matter. This is not the first time this has happened at Iarnród Éireann. A few months ago the chairman and various executives commissioned a report on corruption in Iarnród Éireann at a cost of €500,000. The Minister did not know about that report, that it had been commissioned, that it had cost €500,000 to produce, its findings and was not informed when it was issued. Not only did he not know, but the board was not told officially either, which begs the question as to what is going on in this semi-state body which receives a subsidy of €300 million from the taxpayer every year. We do not know. Iarnród Éireann is being run like a little independent republic and is not subject to freedom of information legislation. We encounter incredible problems in getting the company to answer questions at the Joint Committee on Transport. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on this quango which is running rings around the Government. We are entitled to detailed answers about what is happening inside the organisation but we are not getting them. It is a real accident waiting to happen.

I second the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by Senator Buttimer. I join Senator Hannigan in calling for a debate on the tourism industry which, I am sad to say, has been suffering badly. However, I welcome the initiative taken by the Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport, Deputy Hanafin, in the British market which traditionally has been our best market. There are reasons for its decline, but, please God, they are surmountable. With all the volcanic ash still floating around, at least our British visitors can reach us easily by ferry. There are many things we could do to encourage our good British customers to come back to Ireland. However, we must also try to do something about the many insolvent hotels. We have too many hotels, many of which have been transferred — or at least, the impaired loans associated with them — to NAMA. It is obvious that some of them are insolvent and they are hindering and threatening the viability of our good hotels. They were developed as a result of the granting of capital allowances for seven years, but it should not be beyond the ingenuity of the Department of Finance to come up with a solution or a method to allow them to exit the market without the loss of the tax breaks.

I add my voice to others, particularly that of Senator Ross, in regard to Iarnród Éireann. It is astounding that the board and perhaps top level management are still in place, in spite of all that has happened. I agree we need to debate the matter.

When is it proposed to take Report Stage of the Property Services (Regulation) Bill 2009?

I support the calls made by other speakers for a debate on transport policy. Following on from Senator Buttimer's question about who drives transport policy, we can say it is certainly not the Minister who is not even a back seat driver but just a passenger at this stage——

He is on autopilot.

I agree. We have seen a complete abdication of responsibility for governing and driving transport policy and, as other speakers said, a handing over of responsibility to quangos. We need a debate on the issue.

I thank the Cathaoirleach for welcoming the distinguished delegation in the Distinguished Visitors Gallery. I also wish to welcome its members on my own behalf. It is a UNICEF-led group from Indonesia which comprises parliamentarians and members of the public service with a particular interest in child protection. It is an important visit because it will take the delegation north and south of the Border. The delegates will be speaking to various agencies and non-governmental organisations and meeting the Minister of State with responsibility for children and youth affairs, Deputy Barry Andrews. They are studying the way in which we provide services for children. In that context, I ask for a debate on our child protection services. This is topical because I hope we will see the referendum on children's rights being held in the autumn and today the House will deal with the Child Care (Amendment) Bill 2009. Our child protection procedures have been greatly improved in recent years, largely as a result of the horrific revelations about the neglect and abuse of children in State-run or State-funded institutions. While we must all welcome the improvements made, we also recognise that we have much still to do; in particular, we need to strengthen the role of the guardian ad litem to ensure the voice of the child is heard in proceedings involving the State, where the State is seeking to take a child into care or in private custody cases in which the parents are disputing custody and access to children. Therefore, a debate on child protection would be timely. Once again, I welcome the UNICEF delegation and compliment UNICEF on its work on the issue of child protection.

I share the concerns expressed about the continuing viability of the Quinn Group. This matter has been raised regularly in the House. Senator O'Reilly is correct that it may not seem to be very important in the scheme of things nationally, but as someone who lives in the region which stretches across several counties and has met the people affected, some of whom are facing the prospect of losing their jobs, I hope the House will understand why it is necessary to continue to keep this issue high on the agenda. I hope the departure of Seán Quinn and his wife from the board of the Quinn Group will help to stabilise it and I am sure Members on all sides of the House will join me in wishing them well. It is always distasteful when someone like Seán Quinn who put so much effort and hard work into building up his business has to depart from it. He is then criticised for the one mistake he made which is having an adverse effect on the group.

Yesterday, the tourism committee heard presentations from the Services, Industrial, Professional and Technical Union, SIPTU, the Irish Hotels Federation, IHF, and Fáilte Ireland on the continuing challenges facing the tourism sector. Will the Leader establish which Minister is responsible for legislation passed in 2000 which promised a review of rates at least every five years and ten years at most? To date, only two county council areas in Dublin have had their rate valuations revised which saw a 30% reduction in the charges. The hotel industry, particularly, is suffering a crippling downturn in business with high rates imposed on it. Why, ten years after legislation was passed, has it not been effected? Will the Leader find out which Minister can provide answers to what seems to be an inefficiency in implementing legislation? I would be grateful if the Minister responsible could then attend the House to debate the matter.

Over recent weeks I have been impressed but not surprised by the force and tone of many colleagues' contributions on the Quinn Group. Notwithstanding Senator Ross's earlier criticism, we all acknowledge the economic growth and jobs the group brought to the north east. However, that the region in question is dependent on one family business for its financial wherewithal must be reflected upon. One could argue the Quinn Group became a substitute for industrial development efforts in the north east, from which a lesson must be learned.

We therefore urgently need a debate on balanced economic development and ensuring the State's job creation agencies see beyond Dublin and the greater Dublin area into all corners of the country. Never again can we have a region so dependent on one employer. While I empathise and sympathise with all those who have lost their jobs in the Quinn Group, a much broader approach to economic planning and development is required.

Will the Leader arrange a debate Northern Ireland in the next few weeks? We have not had one for some time. Today, an election is taking place in our next-door jurisdiction but it is surprising there has not been a stronger focus on the fact that those returned to Northern Ireland's 18 Westminster seats may have a profound impact on the formation of the next British Government. While we have no say as to which administration Northern Ireland MPs will prop up in Westminster, the election result may have a profound impact on internal Northern politics and North-South relations. It is important that in the next several weeks the House debates the broader topic of Northern Ireland, the continuation of dialogue between politicians North and South and the devolved political institutions in Northern Ireland. I am concerned some politician's difficulty in London could become someone else's opportunity in Belfast, which is not always helpful for internal Northern politics.

People will be familiar with the old phrase, "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts". In recent times, we have come to realise the importance of being beware of Greeks seeking gifts. One gift from Greece, however, is that its experience is concentrating many people's minds in this country about the impact of unrealistic public expenditure. That is reflected in the trade unions coming to see the value of the Croke Park agreement, a matter on which I hope the House will have a debate.

I welcome the movement from the Public Service Executive Union, PSEU. I hope the reassurances around teachers' holidays and the length of the teaching day will bring the Association of Secondary Teachers Ireland, ASTI, on board as well. I call on the Labour Party to give leadership on this issue. Its leader, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, has welcomed the Croke Park agreement but it is not enough for him to say he is not going to tell the trade unions how to vote. That could be code for sitting on the fence and we only get splinters when we do that. It is the job of people in politics to give leadership. Good leadership on this issue points away from the populist approach and towards encouraging people to accept this important deal.

I again call for a debate on the Government's cardiovascular policy and stroke care implementation plan. The journalist, Paddy Clancy, spoke on "Morning Ireland" of his good fortune and recovery after having a stroke. The Health Service Executive said 20% of patients could benefit from thrombolysis, a clot-busting treatment which can have miraculous effects in preventing death and disability from stroke. However, only 2% of patients receive it. Every 45 minutes one person suffers a stroke and it is the largest cause of acquired disability affecting up to 30,000 people.

The Senator must conclude.

Will the Leader give a date for a debate on trafficking and asylum which I requested yesterday?

Tourism is facing many challenges. One important element to encourage tourism is having proper, efficient and accessible transport links. I support the amendment to the Order of Business regarding transport policy and the confusion between the Department of Transport and Iarnród Éireann management.

Last month, all Members welcomed the opening of the western rail corridor, an important development for tourism and business in the west. However, Iarnród Éireann is now proposing to close the rail corridor between Rosslare Europort, one of the busiest ports in the country providing access to Ireland for thousands of UK and European tourists, and Waterford, a gateway city for the south east. It is such decisions around which we need transparency. Will the Leader request the Minister for Transport to bring Iarnród Éireann and Bus Éireann to heel and take back control of them? These transport companies are taking unilateral decisions which are not helping the economy and tourism in particular.

I want to raise the shocking news that 52 beds in Beaumont Hospital are to be closed over the next two weeks, which Senator Quinn referred to earlier. At the end of this week, 33 beds are to go with a further 19 in two weeks' time. This is down to Beaumont's budget being slashed by €19 million by the HSE.

According to the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation on Thursday last, 42 patients were on trolleys, 38 on Friday, 32 this Tuesday and 50 yesterday. Many of these patients, some of them elderly, did not even have a trolley and were forced to sit on chairs. Several weeks ago, a friend of mine had to spend 24 hours sitting upright on a chair with no facility to sleep and a drip hanging from his arm. This is the reality of Beaumont Hospital's accident and emergency department. People are held up in the department because of a lack of bed availability in the general hospital. This is before the 52-bed cut will come into play. I have been informed by nurses at the hospital that these cuts will devastate the accident and emergency department. A health strategy based on starvation of resources, slash-and-burn or sink-and-swim approaches is unacceptable. The approach may be acceptable in some organisations but it certainly has no place in a hospital. For each of the 52 beds that are to be closed there will be 52 fewer beds available to relieve the position.

More of the same cutbacks is the health strategy of this Government. It cuts the budget without any concern for the effect on the patient. That is unacceptable. I ask the Leader to convey the message to the Minister that she should personally intervene to ensure these bed closures do not take place tomorrow. We need an improvement in accident and emergency services in Beaumont Hospital, not the deterioration that will be the result of these cutbacks.

I join Senator Bradford in calling on the Leader to arrange a debate on Northern Ireland.

I concur with the comments of my constituency colleague, Senator O'Reilly, regarding Seán and Patricia Quinn. I join the Senator in his words of tribute to both of them on Mr. Quinn's retirement from the Quinn Group. I would also like to put on record, as I have done on many occasions, my personal admiration for Seán Quinn and for his family. Seán Quinn is a practical patriot. In 37 years he has gone from creating a job for himself to creating over 7,000 jobs worldwide, 5,500 of them on this island. He has made an enormous contribution to my county of Cavan and to the 32 counties of this country. He has made a contribution in terms of industry, tourism and job creation and has been responsible——

What did he do for Anglo Irish Bank?

——in the 37 years he has been in business, for contributing over €1 billion to the Exchequer of this State.

That matter can be raised on the Adjournment.

Seán Quinn is the only billionaire I know of who lives in this country and pays his tax in this country.

A Senator

Hear, hear.

He is the only billionaire I know of who creates employment in this country——

He breaks banks in this country.

——and does not play the stock markets as a way of making his income.

No. He does not do it very well——

To refer to Seán Quinn as a menace is an unfortunate use of the English language. He is a patriot in the greatest sense of the word.

(Interruptions).

Senator, please.

If Seán Quinn is a menace then we need more menaces in this country, not fewer.

I welcome the clarification by the Department of Education and Skills in advance of the teachers voting on the Croke Park deal. It was important that we had a clarification that the school year — 167 days in secondary and 183 days in primary — will be protected. I do not know how teachers could have voted for the deal without that clarification because with the permanent contract up for renegotiation it was a dangerous move to ask any employee to vote on this agreement. I welcome also that teachers will be voting on the fact that school planning days and parent teacher meeting days will be outside of the school year. That is huge progress. I wish them luck and ask them to vote for the Croke Park deal.

It is now time for a moment calm in this country. I ask that the Taoiseach, Deputy Brian Cowen, and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, make a state of the nation address to the effect that there are some signs of recovery and to outline Ireland's road map in the context of the current eurozone crisis.

Questions to the Leader.

Yes. I sense huge anger and a lack of understanding of the fact that Greece is getting €1.3 billion while we have a greater deficit than Greece.

Yes. We see anarchy on the streets of Greece. We need to know that will not happen here. We also see continued huge employment losses.

The point has been made. We will not allow speeches. It is questions to the Leader on the Order of Business.

The Taoiseach, Deputy Cowen, has never shown the leadership this country needs in that regard.

We are not discussing the Taoiseach at the moment. Questions to the Leader.

I am putting the question. This is a critical moment where we are putting Ireland in the context of Europe. I look forward to that and ask the Leader to address that in his response.

First, I take the opportunity to call for a debate on the Common Fisheries Policy. The Minister of State, Deputy Connick, was in Spain earlier this week where he discussed the Common Fisheries Policy review with other fisheries Ministers. With the submission made by the Irish Government in February of this year to the European Commission, it would be timely now to discuss the common fisheries policy. This policy is critically important to the fishing waters around Ireland and to the coastal communities. I commend the Minister and his predecessor, the Minister of State, Deputy Killeen, for taking on board submissions made by coastal communities that are now central to the submission made by Ireland. I call on the Leader to arrange a debate on this policy as quickly as possible to ensure Members can influence the future direction being taken.

Second, I support Senators Bradford and Wilson in their call for a debate on Northern Ireland. That is timely given what is happening in the North. There could be a hung Parliament in the United Kingdom and parties may depend on votes in the North to prop up the new administration, which would have profound effects on North-South co-operation and relations and also Dublin-London relations. We must take all of those issues into consideration. We should have a debate on that issue if not next week then the week after. The Leader might allow two or three hours for the debate to ensure all Members could express their views, with the relevant Minister in the House.

Senator Twomey called for a debate on prisons. I have already given a commitment to the House that this will take place. It is timely that the Senator has called for such a debate and it is urgently required. I have no difficulty giving a commitment that this will take place. I will try to have it take place in the next four weeks if at all possible.

Senators Twomey, O'Toole, Hannigan, Boyle, MacSharry, Quinn, Ó Murchú, Buttimer, Coghlan, Mullen and Healy Eames expressed views regarding the Croke Park agreement. I, too, welcome the vote by the public services union in favour of the agreement. I thank colleagues on all sides of the House for their support on that. I know it is not easy but country comes first and I am proud of the colleagues who are telling their constituents, those who put them here, that this agreement is crucial for the future of our country and for future generations. The trade union leadership, which is acting so responsibly, must be supported, and we fully support them.

We will have an all day debate on the agreement here next Thursday. I endeavoured to have the debate take place today but the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, is in the Dáil today. The Minister, Deputy Brian Lenihan, will be here along with the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, for this crucial debate next Thursday. I am sure colleagues would have wanted me to have the Ministers present for the debate on this most serious of agreements and what is now being asked of the workers who have had a reduction in their pay and their standards of living, all in the national interest. I hope that together we can make this agreement happen. I assure everyone that the commitment by the Government regarding the spirit of the agreement will be the plank on which the workers will vote in favour of the agreement.

Senators O'Toole and Boyle raised the issue of Seanad reform. As the Deputy Leader, Senator Boyle, correctly said, the drafts people are at an advanced stage in regard to the local government Bill which will bring in the regulations regarding the new Mayor of Dublin. They are working on it currently and as the Deputy Leader said, the next job of work for them will be to examine the submissions from all colleagues in the House on the Seanad reform legislation.

Senators Hannigan and Coghlan called for a debate on tourism at this crucial time in which we find ourselves regarding the challenges facing that industry. I, too, welcome the €20 million that has been allocated for marketing by the Minister, Deputy Hanafin, which is a vote of confidence from the Minister to assist the industry. It has been a really difficult year, probably one of the most difficult tourism has experienced in the past 50 years, in respect of air transport. I acknowledge everything that has been done by the airlines, the ferries and everyone in aviation to keep our planes in the air and our ferries crossing the seas. As an island nation, we are so dependent on our exports. They are crucial and the one ray of hope we have seen is that our exports have continued to stay strong during the global downturn.

Senators Donohoe, Buttimer, Ross and Coffey called for a debate on Transport 21, the difficulties experienced by the old CIE, as we knew it, Dublin Bus, Iarnród Éireann and all the various challenges facing the Transport 21 programme. To give balance, we must acknowledge that the dual carriageways from Dublin to Cork, Limerick and Galway represent the new Ireland as we know it, compared to when I used to travel 60,000 miles per year in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, and drive every mile of it.

Did the Senator travel barefoot?

Was the Senator in short pants?

At the time the vehicles one drove were not the mod cons in which Senators sit now and in which they enjoy coming to the House and going back home.

The Government still cannot put in motorway stops or rest areas. Why is that?

Please Senator Buttimer, the Leader without interruption.

RTE's programme——

There are none on the motorway from Cork to Dublin.

Please Senator Buttimer, the Leader without interruption.

It is like being in the ass and cart.

Senator Buttimer should listen and learn. RTE's programme did not get through to him last week. The Senators have called for an urgent debate on this issue and I will look at the diary and try to have it take place in the next few weeks. I am keen to see what can be done to help and assist the Department, the Minister and colleagues in respect of their strong views regarding this matter.

Senators MacSharry, Reilly, Mooney, Bradford and Wilson made a call on the people. Senators MacSharry, Reilly, Wilson, Paschal Mooney and myself live in the relevant area. We have called on the people to ask their brokers to give the Quinn Insurance Group an opportunity to quote and to keep, help and assist the thousands of people employed at this very difficult time. I echo everything Senator Wilson says about Seán Quinn and his achievements. Those of us who know the importance of creating a job, how difficult that is and who have done so must acknowledge the great Irish person that is Seán Quinn. He has made an incredible contribution to the Irish economy over 36 years. It is unbelievable. Very few others have achieved the achievements of Seán Quinn and we should acknowledge that in the House and not be ashamed or afraid to do so. It is also in order to say that one or two bad decisions were made. Everyone is only human but this man has been exemplary in the way he has conducted his affairs and his business.

Not according to the regulator. The regulator does not believe so.

The regulator is a menace.

He is the regulator.

We are talking about a different league here, about people who create jobs not those who try to take them away. We are saying that we support the insurance company. We want to have a strong player in the field for competition. We have no wish for the old cartel that was here years ago, ripping off the Irish consumer in respect of insurance policies. Senator Ross will remember this time as I do. He may be a good deal younger than me but he is very much to the fore in knowing how cartels operate because it is his job, and he is doing a very good job in the national interest in his other field of expertise.

However, let us give credit where credit is due. As Senator Wilson has stated, we salute the man that pays his taxes in his own country, like Michael O'Leary and Seán Quinn. All the other people who are making fortunes and not paying their taxes in the Irish jurisdiction are in a different league of Irish people in the view of those on this side of the House.

The Senator should be very careful how he presents this information.

Senator MacSharry called for a debate on the sports capital programme. I have no difficulty in this taking place. Senators Quinn and Ryan referred to the difficulties being experienced in Beaumont Hospital. I refer to the Government's commitment in the past 11 years. Funding has increased from €5 billion per year to between €15 billion and €16 billion to run the health service, which is a serious commitment by Government. As has been stated on the floor of the House many times, the standards in our hospitals today are second to none and they have improved considerably. Everyone is to be congratulated, including all Ministers with responsibility for health on all sides of the House who made this possible.

What about the trolleys and the lack of beds?

Be that as it may, there are difficulties being experienced at present time. I trust everyone can be assisted and helped in their great work, especially our nurses and doctors on the frontline. These are the staff who must get the support and be given priority in respect of funding as far as I am concerned and all colleagues in the House will agree with that.

Senator Keaveney called for a debate on drugs. I have no difficulty in holding a debate on this matter, especially in respect of head shops. Senator Buttimer called for the Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport to provide an up-to-date position in respect of prioritising legislation in her Department. I will have this matter inquired into and I will come back to the House at a later date.

Senator Dearey called for a debate on economic recovery. As I stated, the Croke Park agreement will be discussed all day next Thursday. It is timely to hold such a debate on economic recovery and we can pencil it in on a future date afterwards. Senator Dearey also referred to the former Minister, Charlie McCreevy's appointment and the decision of the EU. One of the most experienced people in public life has always been the Minister for Finance because he or she knows everything that happens in every Government portfolio.

What about Deputy Brian Cowen, when he was Minister for Finance?

Senator please, the Leader is replying.

He is a greatly experienced——

Senators, please.

He was one of the finest.

He is from the midlands and I am proud of it. He is next door to Galway and I am sure the Senator is proud of it as well.

Not of the way he managed the economy.

No interruptions, please.

The Senator will get her chance.

No interruptions or I will ask Senators to leave the Chamber.

We will know in years to come if the decisions of the last budget were correct. None of us has the power of foresight.

The Senator should not make predictions.

We will also know the pain.

One of the Senator's former leaders, Garret FitzGerald, stated he made a mistake and that he did not pass a sufficiently tough budget in his first year when it was necessary in 1984. We must learn from the experiences, no matter what the party.

Deputy Brian Cowen is no Garret FitzGerald.

He has neither the vision nor the leadership.

Senators, please. No interruption of the Leader.

Senator Coghlan called for an update on the Property Services (Regulation) Bill on Report Stage. I will come back to the House on that. Senator Mooney referred to rates and the need for buildings to be re-rated because the spirit of the Bill stated it should be done every five years. I believe this is a very urgent matter that must be addressed, especially in respect of the hotel sector, as pointed out in the meeting yesterday. I have a vested interest in this area and it is an area presenting great challenges at present. Rates represent a very substantial cost especially on hotels providing significant employment. I have no difficulty in allocating time for this.

Senators Bradford, Wilson and Ó Domhnaill called for a debate on Northern Ireland, which is timely. We will hold it before the end of the session. Senator Mullen referred to the issues of asylum and trafficking. I will have this included at the earliest possible time.

Is that before the end of term?

The Senator also referred to serious concerns regarding stroke and stroke care and all of that. I recommend the Senator checks the Internet and reads up about perindopril arginine and the great success it is having in America at present.

I thank the Leader.

I will enlighten the Senator personally afterwards.

Please do, but could we get the Minister in to enlighten us about what the Government is going to do?

The Senator cannot come back in. He has no right.

I am surprised the Leader has not given a date.

The Senator has no right to come back in. The Leader is replying and he must reply to the questions raised.

Senator Ó Domhnaill called for a debate on the Common Fisheries Policy. I have no difficulty in this taking place at the earliest possible time.

Senator Jerry Buttimer has moved an amendment to the Order of Business.

On a point of order, before the question is put to the House, will the Leader to clarify the nature of next Thursday's debate? What order and structure will it have?

I am discussing that matter with the leader of the Senator's group. I have an open mind. I am discussing the matter with the leaders of the groups to see how best we can serve and assist at this sensitive time. I know the Senator will appreciate this.

Will we have a debate on Thursday? Will the Leader ensure it is not guillotined?

As we know, the Senator never guillotines anything.

I know I do not but the Leader does.

Is Senator Buttimer pursuing his amendment to the Order of Business?

I will withdraw it on the basis of the Leader's comments.

Peace has broken out.

Peace in the valley.

Order of Business agreed to.
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