The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on A Vision for Change, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 1.45 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed eight minutes and the Minister to be called to reply not later than 1.40 p.m.
Order of Business
Yesterday I raised the matter of the welfare allowance cuts for the elderly that were announced by the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, on Monday. It seems the communication within Government on that was not the best and I ask the Leader again, if I may, what the Government position is on the cuts in the fuel allowance, the telephone allowance and the electricity allowance for senior citizens.
It was interesting to look back through the Dáil record at statements made by of a couple of our colleagues in the other House. In October 2010, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, now a Minister of State, stated:
We are living on an island off Europe where it gets cold and it is damp. The [previous] Government is a disgrace.
This was when the Labour Party was calling for increases in the fuel allowance. She continued: "It must begin to give consideration to those for whom it is responsible, the poor and the newly poor." Deputy Costello, in that same debate when the Labour Party brought a motion before the Dáil in October last year, called for increases in the fuel allowance.
Many Members have raised the fact that gas and electricity prices have been flagged for further increases. Although the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste committed themselves to no welfare cuts and no income tax increases, this, to me, is a welfare cut. The Government cannot call it anything else. It is a €65 million cut in one year. Those affected are the senior citizens, the older people of the State. What is going on here? What I really would like to ask the Leader is whether he can tell me, in the programme for Government between the Labour Party and Fine Gael, what commitments they gave to senior citizens and the elderly?
Many commitments given already have been broken and I will not go back to them. They are a matter of record. However, it seems interesting that the Minister did not announce these cuts in the House. Effectively, she announced them to the media. What is the commitment, what is the impact of the cuts and what is the Labour Party's view on this when it seemed to be exceptionally strong on this only a few months ago where it was calling for increases in those allowances?
This morning in this Chamber we gather in the dark shadow of the report into the diocese of Cloyne. While we are here trying to digest the horrific findings of this damning report, the main protagonist in it, Bishop Magee, is nowhere to be found. It is high time he faced the music. I hope the Garda Commissioner will see fit to follow up on Bishop Magee and make him account for his actions or, rather, his inaction. What he did is nothing short of criminal negligence.
I know well the effects clerical abuse have had on victims and their families and I want to take this opportunity to praise those survivors and their families for the bravery they have shown in standing up to these vile and evil perpetrators. It has not been an easy road for them and I hope they will begin to find some sort of closure with the publication of this report.
We cannot let this process stop here. It is still unknown how many other victims there are in the 26 other dioceses. The most shocking aspect of this report is that it is not dealing with terrible wrongs committed in the distant past. Instead, it examines the diocese of Cloyne and how it dealt with complaints made from 1996 to early 2009. The Vatican, with which the ultimate responsibility for the cover ups and the deception lies, should now be made accountable for its actions. What we need in this House is for a senior church spokesman, such as the papal nuncio, to come here and explain the measures the church is taking to ensure this will never happen again.
That is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. I am sure Senator Heffernan's leader can take that up at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
I want to ask the Leader whether he will facilitate this.
I support Senator Heffernan's remarks on the Cloyne report. As I stated yesterday, we should ask the Leader to set some time aside to reflect on and bear witness to the outcomes of the Cloyne report. I support my fellow Senator on this disturbing and shocking report.
Last week in the Seanad, Senator Eamonn Coghlan spoke eloquently and passionately about the role of the Special Olympics and sport in local communities throughout Ireland. He also accentuated and encouraged a degree of positivity and gave us an insight into how athletes square up to adversity. Sometimes in the media this positivity is reported as naive and unrealistic. In my role as chairman of We the Citizens I have been accused of being chirpy, a way of demeaning citizens who have a mixture of idealism, energy and realism. I run the Abbey Theatre and I am its artistic director. Running any theatre or arts organisation demands idealism, positivity and a good dose of business acumen and sales. It requires all of us to think outside the box as well. This is the definition of the artist's role in Irish society: to innovate, celebrate, criticise, engage and to offer clarity and, sometimes, hope. Also, they have bitten the hand that feeds them and that is important too. Discordant voices and disagreement are an essential part of any healthy society as we have seen in this Chamber.
Artists have played an important part in our communities for thousands of years. They are looked up to as chroniclers of our times, passing down through the oral tradition the songs, stories and the dinnseanchas of our tribes. This is where the Irish imagination was born and reared and it has been one of our greatest assets on our journey to nationhood and sovereignty. Now that our sovereignty has been undermined and our communities are under threat we should turn to our artists and sports heroes for courage, inspiration and clarity.
The Chamber is full of Senators who have made contributions to their communities in one way or another. Senator Ó Murchú is a great light and supporter of Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann, an extraordinary organisation which has knitted and brought communities together throughout the country. Senator John Whelan is a novelist. Senator David Norris is a scholar and arts supporter. Senator MacSharry is an award-winning actor with important experience in the amateur movement.
All Senators know what it is like to participate in an arts event either as a performer or, just as crucially, as an audience member. Without an audience there is no art and vice versa and without either there is no community and no dialogue. I note that yesterday, Senator O’Sullivan requested that the Leader call on the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, to come to the Seanad to discuss the role of the arts in these tough times. The arts have a value. We could discuss their impact on tourism, local business and the reputational value they bring to our nation internationally. However, we should remember that all the flourishing arts centres and festivals throughout the country started because artists, arts workers and communities sought a dialogue to inform and entertain each other. For example, let us consider the Galway arts festival this week, the Kilkenny arts festival to be held in early August, Spraoi, which will be held during the August bank holiday weekend in the Leader’s and Senator Cullinane’s constituency and the Dublin theatre festival which is coming. Every weekend there is an extraordinary flourishing and emergence.
Senator, have you a question for the Leader?
Yes I do. I have asked him a question and I will ask him another question.
You are running out of time, Senator.
I thank the Cathaoirleach for his forbearance. Will the Leader encourage the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, to the House in the autumn when we return and will everyone in the House experience an art event between now and then so that we can contribute to the debate about the value of arts and culture in our communities?
Hear, hear.
At 1 p.m., Mr. Chopra will address the nation on television about the recovery package. Will the Leader impress upon the Committee on Procedure and Privileges the need to expedite our request that Mr. Chopra should address the House? The Parliament has an important role to play in national recovery.
Arising from our most useful debate last Friday on the health service, I call on the Leader to impress upon the Minister for Health that he should not wait five years to introduce the new scheme for health insurance. The state of the health service is a matter of political concern in the House at almost every sitting and it will delay our national recovery. I cannot see the reason for waiting five years because the State already knows the number of people who have medical cards and private health insurance. It is important for the Leader to impress upon the Minister for Health the need to bring forward this reforming scheme far sooner than the five year period envisaged.
Yesterday in the House we had the Palestinian, Dr. Nabil Shaath. I recommend a good publication to people in the House which deals with Palestine and Irish politics. It reflects upon the visit of de Valera to the USA in 1919 and 1920 where he addressed the Indian population. It was posted throughout the USA as President de Valera's message to India. In the 1930s, de Valera opposed the partition of Palestine at the League of Nations and opposed Britain's selfish interests there. In the 1950s, de Valera went with Ben Briscoe to Israel and met Ben Gurion. However, he went on to Ramallah to criticise the plight of Palestinian refugees who were living in atrocious conditions there. After Suez, Liam Cosgrave, as Minister for External Affairs, denounced Israel for its influence on that war. Frank Aitken brought a three-point plan to the UN Assembly in 1958. After the six-day war in 1967, Ireland protested at the annexation by Israel of the territories of its neighbours. I raise this because the issue of the recognition of Palestinian statehood will be raised in September at the UN. It would be a betrayal of everything this country has stood for and of its unflinching support for the Palestinian people if the Tánaiste as Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade either abstained or opposed the resolution.
Hear, hear.
Since we are coming to the last days before the recess it is imperative to have the Tánaiste here. I hope the initiative taken by Senator Darragh O'Brien to place an all-party motion before the Chamber will be endorsed and that the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade will be present to hear that debate and to announce to the House that it is his intention to support that resolution when it comes before the UN in September.
Hear, hear.
I agree with my colleagues that it is important to examine the Cloyne report. A few days should pass before we discuss it because it should be discussed in a calm and forensic manner. I say this because I have spoken on all the previous reports and I never spoke until I had read them in detail and thought about the implications.
The implications are extremely sad. I listened on the radio to a man whose daughter was abused. There were terrible consequences for her. He remains a Christian which I think must be rather difficult. There is a good deal of pain there and we must respect the pain that ordinary Catholic citizens and ordinary decent clergy feel. Unless I am mistaken I believe that Archbishop Diarmuid Martin comes out of this reasonably well. Perhaps, he did not get the support that he should have. I suggest we take this matter seriously but only after we have had an opportunity to reflect.
I strongly support Senator Mac Conghail and I am delighted that he raised the matter of the arts. I am flattered that he mentioned me and my small contribution, which is minute in comparison to others, including Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú. However, he is absolutely right about the role of artists. I go back as far as Plato. Plato banned poets from the new Republic because poets were liars and artists were unreliable. That is part of their wonderful value.
I think back on two men I am proud to have known as friends and teachers, the late Sean O'Faolain and the late Frank O'Connor. Both were deeply involved in the Republican movement that gave us this independent State. However, the minute they had it, they turned into some of its sternest critics and exposed the hypocrisy involved. Once a State is established one begins to get institutions and those institutions must not be immune from criticism. I agree with Shelley that poets are the unacknowledged legislators of mankind. Often, the artistic voice has prophetic knowledge and insight. At least after the Celtic tiger there are 70 theatres throughout the country which is wonderful. We should bear in mind the Trondheim report that came out some weeks ago which demonstrates clearly that involvement in the arts at local level by ordinary citizens has a significant impact on mental well-being.
I support the call for this House to have a debate on the Cloyne report and its implications. I agree with Senator Norris that such a debate should be conducted in a calm and forensic way. He is absolutely correct in this regard. Many issues are at play because this report brings one up to 2009, which constitutes a shocking indictment of the Catholic Church. Given what has gone before and all the previous reports from which lessons should have been learned, it appears that those lessons were not learned by all within the Catholic Church. I welcome the Tánaiste's proposed meeting with the papal nuncio, which is extremely important and from which it is to be hoped there will be a positive outcome.
I also wish to place this issue in an all-Ireland context because on issues as important as the protection of children, Members must ensure there is all-Ireland joined-up thinking and harmonisation. I note there is no register for sex offenders across the island of Ireland and there are variances between policies on child protection between North and South. This is an area in which, through this House or another forum, there may be scope for all-Ireland co-ordination to ensure that children are protected across the island of Ireland because victims of clerical abuse were living both in this State and in the North.
I revert briefly to an issue that was raised yesterday and support the call by Senator Barrett for Mr. Chopra to be invited to appear before this House. However, there has been some discussion on the ratings agencies and while I have no grá for such agencies and agree with much of what was said about them, the underlying factors that brought them to downgrade our debt to junk status are real and one cannot dismiss those factors. In response to questions from Deputy Pearse Doherty in the Dáil yesterday, the Minister for Finance——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
I will conclude on this point as I have a question for the Leader. The Minister for Finance conceded that the total profit that will be made by the European Central Bank and the IMF will be €14 billion. This illustrates the extent of the problem with which we must now grapple and the cuts for this year alone may exceed the original forecast of €4 billion. Senator Darragh O'Brien spoke of the potential impact of some of those cuts on older people and so on and, consequently, there is a need for a debate in this House on the bailout, the potential need for a second bailout and whether the country is on the right road. I made this point a number of weeks ago and it is vital that Members are seen to be scrutinising what is happening. It will be important to avoid ending up facing an even bigger financial crisis than the current one in four or five years' time and for Members not to have been perceived as scrutinising and probing properly the decisions that are being made. I ask that the Minister for Finance appear in the House at some stage to discuss those important issues.
I join those colleagues who have suggested that at the opportune time, one hopes before the summer recess, Members should reflect by way of a debate on the Cloyne report. I did not hear the full contribution made by Senator Norris but he indicated Members should read the report in full before commenting in any great detail and I agree with him in that regard. I speak as a member of the diocese of Cloyne and, obviously, what I have read in the past day or so has been extremely traumatic. Some of the news is of no great surprise, but when one sees it in print and the conclusions made, it is a source of deep trauma, disappointment and regret. As I stated, I do not intend to discuss the report in any great detail this morning, but a message of deep sympathy and empathy must go out from this House to all the victims. It is fair to state a similar message must also go to all the genuine, hard-working and entirely innocent priests and clergy of the people, both in the diocese of Cloyne and nationwide, because they, too, share in the trauma, bitterness and upset. One cannot repair the horrors of history but one must attempt to move forward. I look forward to a broad and wide-ranging debate in the House at the earliest possible opportunity.
In addition, I also heard mention of the position regarding Palestine, Israel and the Middle East, to which reference was also made in this Chamber on Tuesday when a request was made for a debate on the general position in the Middle East. I look forward to that debate, in which balance will be required. In the past decade or so, Members have considered the position in the Middle East from one perspective only. They also must recognise there is a country, state and democracy, indeed the only democracy in the Middle East, called Israel, which consists of a people against whom an attempt was made within the past 50 or 60 years to wipe them off the map. This must also be reflected on and recollected and Members must have such a balanced debate on the Middle East. I fully support the right of the Palestinian people to have a state, to be protected and to be defended, but I also wish to put on record my strong support for the recognition and defence of the state of Israel. I refer to a people who faced the gas chambers. That is their history and that should not be forgotten by Members, who also should try to empathise with and understand their perspective.
First, I draw Members' attention to the fact that as they were going to bed last night, a very important competition in New York was drawing to a conclusion, namely, the Microsoft Imagine Cup 2011. Each year, Microsoft invites students from all over the world to come up with ideas under a range of headings, including software design, to solve the world's problems. I am delighted to announce to those Members who are not already aware that Institute of Technology Sligo won the top prize in that competition for the design of software that will help to prevent road accidents.
Senators
Hear, hear.
In a week in which Members also celebrated the prowess of Trinity College in being among the top 100 universities in the world, is it not fantastic that an Irish institute of technology and its students competed with 350,000 other student entries from 183 countries and not only qualified for the finals but won that event? I am sure the Leader will permit me to take this opportunity to send good wishes and congratulations to Institute of Technology Sligo and Team HERMES, as it was called, for their extraordinary achievement today. Following on from this, I ask the Leader to arrange for a debate on the issue of entrepreneurship education. He may recall my previously expressed interest in the potential introduction of entrepreneurship education modules from primary school right through second, third and fourth levels.
While it took many years, as an amateur actor I always dreamt that my talent would be discovered by the director of the Abbey Theatre and, consequently, I feel as though I finally have arrived.
Listening to Senators Mac Conghail and Norris this morning, I felt like a return to Tintern Abbey and Wordsworth country. Then again, we have Muckross Abbey in my part of the world and so perhaps I am not obliged to go that far to enjoy that sort of beautiful landscape, solitude and all that goes with it. However, I support Senator Mac Conghail's call to the Leader to have the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Deenihan, appear in the House in the autumn session. He is a man who has a great feel for his Department and everything under its aegis. The Minister, Deputy Deenihan, who comes from the literary capital of the Kingdom, is a very fitting choice for that.
On a point of order——
Senator Paul Coghlan is the Minister's greatest cheerleader.
He has taken a great interest in all matters right across the arts sector.
The Senator should be careful or the Minister will have nothing else to say when he comes in here.
I expect the Senator got a vote from him.
No, he will have plenty to say. I really admire him for his interest in some of the specific issues. In particular, I refer to Killarney House, which should be a showpiece but which sadly is a blot on the landscape at present.
The Senator did not get the Queen to visit.
It is within the heart of the national park and yet also in the town of Killarney and has the potential to be a huge tourist attraction or cultural and visitor centre. Senator Mac Conghail reminded me of these things this morning and the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, has great plans. I would love him to come to the House to expand on them.
Senator Paul Coghlan is supporting Senator Mac Conghail.
I am very supportive of what Senator Mac Conghail said, particularly with regard to Killarney House, which is only one little project.
It should be something really magnificent, given the beauty of the landscape in which it is placed.
On this rare occasion I agree with my colleague from Kerry, Senator Coghlan, regarding bringing the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, to the House to discuss the matter of Killarney House.
The Cloyne report was published yesterday. I agree with Senator Heffernan's request that the papal nuncio be asked to address the House and thus afford him an opportunity to apologise to the families and victims——
Hope springs eternal.
That is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
It is and I ask the Leader to make that possible and to offer the invitation because the papal nuncio and the Vatican have a lot of explaining to do to the people of Ireland.
Senator Heffernan also spoke about the victims. Forty victims gave evidence to the inquiry. I refer to a report from the Journal of Interpersonal Violence which carried out a substantial study of child abusers who are not incarcerated. The study interviewed many abusers who had not been found by the authorities, who came forward under a confidentiality agreement. It found that there are 150 victims for every child abuser. This can be multiplied by the Cloyne cases and by the cases in other dioceses and it means tens of thousands of victims, of people who are suffering, according to this report. We discussed this issue in the House a few weeks ago. The Catholic Church is not even helping its own structures to carry out an audit on the number of reports of priests who had allegations made against them. The church does not even have that much respect for the victims that it would assist in trying to calculate the number of people needing to be helped. The saddest statistic of all is that only one person has been prosecuted in Cloyne. There are no consequences for these priests who abuse and they, of course, have an effect on the church itself. The sad aspect is that within the church many people knew what was happening and failed to act. The new legislation proposes that any person who knows anything about what has happened in the past should come forward.
The Senator will have an opportunity to make those points when the legislation comes before the House.
I refer to the motion in the House last night which was a motion on activity, not on action. There was the preposterous situation where everyone in the House talked about precautionary principles. Senator Crown supported the Fianna Fáil motion——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Will the Leader clarify the record of the House? The Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd, was reading the official script which stated there was no intention of introducing any legislation on behalf of the Government——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
The Minister of State then said he would support what Senator Crown was saying about the Fianna Fáil legislation but the Leader then said——
We are not discussing yesterday's business today. Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Last night it was stated in the House that we did not have a Bill available.
The Senator is way over his time.
We said we would put the Bill on the Order Paper on Monday and the Leader is aware of this. I ask him to correct the record of the House because Fianna Fáil would have had that legislation down and the House would have been debating legislation, not motions, last night——
We are not going back there, Senator.
——and we would have made this House relevant.
As my party's spokesperson on social protection I express my alarm at the discrepancy revealed between PPS numbers and the population of the country. There are 2.6 million more PPS numbers than the population currently in the country. The total of PPS numbers is 7.2 million for a population of 4.58 million. This is ripe ground for abuse of the welfare system.
It says something about the level of fraud.
How is it that no Department has picked up on this discrepancy?
This is more appropriate for a debate on the Adjournment.
This country is as good as bankrupt because of what we have inherited and we are trying——
The Senator does not want to comment on the cuts in social welfare seeing as she is the spokesperson on social protection.
Senator Healy Eames to continue, without interruption.
I ask the Leader to ask the Minister, Deputy Burton, to ask her new welfare reform commission to conduct an audit of PPS numbers and come up with a foolproof system to ensure that each person has a single PPS number. This is about rights. Anybody can have——
This is more appropriate for a debate on the Adjournment.
I agree, but it is also a matter to be——
I wish to point out to the Senator that extra time has been given to Members for raising matters on the Adjournment. There were no matters raised on Tuesday and only three matters yesterday and only one today. Many issues on the Order of Business could be raised as matters on the Adjournment.
I thank the Cathaoirleach for that clarification. It is an Adjournment motion issue but it is also an Order of Business issue and an issue for statements. I would like to see the Minister come to the House by next January, at the latest, to say how she has rectified this situation so that we can say categorically there are 4.58 million PPS numbers in the country, the same number as the population.
I have listened with interest to the various contributions. I echo the request by Senator Mac Conghail yesterday for a debate on the Cloyne report at the earliest opportunity. I will reserve my remarks for that debate. Others speakers have said it is important to approach that debate as people who have briefed ourselves fully, first, by reading the report. As all of us come from different parts of the country, I suggest we take the opportunity, in the public interest, to get in touch with people involved in local church leadership to find out exactly what is happening now. I speak as someone who had a position as an employee of the Catholic Church from shortly after the framework document came into force. There was a public expectation and a public acceptance that the church, throughout its various dioceses and religious orders, was now implementing good practice. What is really tubaisteach, to borrow the Irish word, and what makes people really feel betrayed, is the fact that church leaders, who had been party to the public proclamation of the introduction of good practice, then slid back from it without anybody knowing. Today is a day of great release — I do not like the word, "closure" and I do not believe in using it — for the most important people, those who were victimised. We should be careful to do justice, by researching properly, to the many church leaders, clergy and thousands of ordinary lay people around the country who are doing Trojan work implementing best practice in child protection. I know many of these people and I know the countless hours people are spending on a voluntary basis trying to get this issue right.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
We will not in any way detract from our solidarity with victims of abuse and from our annoyance with church inaction and bad practice in the past, by also making space for a greater realisation of the many good changes that have come in since such as the Vatican's position as expressed recently to the various dioceses in the world——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
——and the good practice being carried out on the ground. I do not think this is a question of ——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
I just wish to make that point and I will conclude. I look forward to the debate.
When we talk about victims sometimes we forget that they are real people. Today we are reminded by these fantastic four young people who won the Imagine Cup yesterday in the United States. They are Áine Conaghan, James McNamara, Calum Cawley and Matthew Padden. They are the future of our country and these are the people on whom we rely and whom we hope will build the future for us. We must do everything to protect our children. When we talk about victims we forget and we group them all together. They are our neighbours and our friends, our sisters and our brothers. They are these young people, effectively. Somewhere in Ireland there are children who had potential like them and now cannot realise it because of what happened to them.
I echo the comments made here and outside the House on the findings of the Cloyne report. I, too, would welcome the opportunity to have a debate on it because we need always to look forward and be reminded that these are the people we need, that the young people of Ireland are our future.
I extend my congratulations to the four young people involved in the project I mentioned. They show what can happen when one can realise one's potential, when one has the opportunity to do so and when people have faith in one. They came together from four different counties, disciplines and classes to put together an idea that could win more than a cup. It could win something for the future of Ireland in terms of how we will build our technology, innovation and research.
I have raised this point before in the House. I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, to come to the House. When I visited the institute of technology recently, I discovered there are grave difficulties in its enterprise unit in terms of small companies trying to get the funding, space and help they need to expand and build on their plans. While we ought to celebrate the four young people today, we have to realise that unless we give real support, not just in terms of money but with creative, intelligent responses in our ITs and universities, this will just be a flash in the pan. There is no doubt that their idea to make drivers safer on the roads will succeed; they have shown it already. I ask the Leader to ask the Minister of State to come into the House to consider whether there are ways in which we can creatively contribute to better ideas locally for supporting ITs to aid the kind of ideas that young people have demonstrated. They are the future of this country.
I endorse all the calls for a debate on the publication of the Cloyne report. I support the calls for it to be held after a suitable period of reflection and reading because it is important, as people have said, that if people are to contribute to the report, they would do so. We primarily think of the victims, living and deceased. It is important to remember some are deceased because of the abuse they suffered.
It is important that in the future the church complies with the law. We should introduce laws that are suitable for the protection of children. For members of the church, including myself, it is important that it listens to the voices in the wilderness in the church such as Fr. Doyle who was on television yesterday. He is a canon lawyer in the US who has consistently argued within the church on this issue. Fr. Mernagh, the walking priest, spoke very prophetically on the radio today and should be listened to by all sections of society, especially the church.
Welfare cuts were announced this week. It was a good day to bury bad news for the Minister, Deputy Burton. In light of the Cloyne report, we should not have a debate on that issue today. However, the Minister should be brought before the House next week to discuss the matter. A firm commitment given on social welfare rates but we are now told it does not apply to household benefits or the smokeless fuel allowance. I will urge my party and our spokesperson on social welfare, Senator Mooney and the leader, Senator O'Brien, to call for a full debate on this issue next week. The Minister, like other Ministers, has a tendency to blame the IMF for these decisions. I understand it had no such requirement and that would be confirmed if anyone was to question its representatives at the press conference today. We need a full debate on why and how this happened.
It is the first time ever that budget cuts were announced in June, six months before a budget, and it is the first time people have been targeted. People who benefit from household benefits are not of working age and cannot get a job or re-skill themselves. They are elderly people over 65 years of age and those in receipt of disability allowance. The cuts are not across the board, for which we were vilified. Particular individuals have been targeted as an easy touch and it is most reprehensible. It is very important that we have a full debate on the issue.
I urge members of the Fine Gael Parliamentary Party to come to this House to give us an account of its meeting on hospitals. We are all trying to find out——
As the Senator knows we cannot discuss parliamentary party meetings in the House.
——how it is distributing the spoils and which Deputies will be successful in keeping hospitals open in the future. Thank God it used to be us and we never heard anything from the Opposition. It is very important to do that.
The comments of Senator Mac Conghail to date have sparked the imagination of people and I thank him for his invitation to "Translations" which I hope to attend next week or the week after.
I had tabled matters on the Adjournment which the Cathaoirleach correctly ruled out of order on two separate occasions. I accept his ruling. I thank the Leader for his interventions following the seven wonders of nature competition involving the Cliffs of Moher which I raised on the Order of Business on a couple of occasions. In fairness to the Leader, he brought it to the attention of the Minister and it is to be hoped we will see some Government-led action to ensure the Cliffs of Moher can win the competition on behalf of Ireland.
I am saddened that there is an industrial relations dispute at the Cliffs of Moher which started today. Unfortunately, there is a picket outside the cliffs. There was a scheduled press conference by Giovanni Trapattoni, the manager of the Irish soccer team, scheduled for the area tomorrow, but unfortunately it will not now go ahead. The media opportunity nationally and internationally for the seven wonders of nature competition will not be forthcoming.
I call on all parties involved in the dispute to re-enter negotiations and go before the Labour Court to resolve the issue. The competition is not just important for the Cliffs of Moher; it is important for Ireland. If Ireland can have one of the seven wonders of nature, it will be phenomenal for tourism. I call on the Leader to speak to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to put pressure on Clare County Council to re-enter the Labour Court and determine whether the dispute can be resolved as a matter of urgency.
I ask the Leader to arrange for a debate before the recess on the Cloyne report. It is very important that we have a full, measured and reasoned debate based on facts. The report was commissioned during the Fianna Fáil Administration which shows that we were open to it. The victims are suffering with the release of the report but at least there is some closure, as they said this morning.
The bishop concerned was involved in a major cover-up in 1978 in the Vatican when Pope John Paul I died tragically and, possibly, under very strange circumstances. There was a major cover-up at the time. He was then made Bishop of Cloyne.
These are points that can be made during the debate.
(Interruptions).
Senator Leyden to continue, without interruption. Those are points he can make during the debate.
There have been cover-ups——
On a point of order, it is quite inappropriate, given the sensitive nature of what we have been discussing this morning, that the Senator should go down this line of dialogue.
Senator, that is not a point of order.
It most definitely is a point of order, given the sensitive nature of the Cloyne report.
It is not a point of order.
It is absolutely appalling to think that anybody would go down that line of comment.
Senator Leyden, those are points you can make during the debate.
Okay. The point I am making is that the fundamentals of the church are still right and people should not use the report to get at the church. The Sermon on the Mount is a fundamental principle of the church and has not changed. I am not making light of the situation.
The bishop was involved in a cover-up before. The report explains that he misled the former Minister of State with responsibility for children, Barry Andrews. There is nothing new in the report. What happened in Cloyne——
They are points that can be made during the debate.
——has been exposed. I ask the Leader of the House to have a reasoned debate on it within two weeks.
I ask the Leader to convey our support to the Government. Senator Byrne asked why the welfare cuts were introduced in June. The reason is because we are bankrupt.
That is not true.
We received money under set conditions from the ECB and the IMF. We have to report——-
Senator Jim D'Arcy to continue, without interruption.
We must report every two weeks to our economic masters. If Senators were listening to the vox-pop on "The John Murray Show" this morning, they would know we are bankrupt because of a corrupt set of chancers. I am not including current Members in this, but a fish rots from the head downwards. We must have change.
The IMF did not ask for these cuts; we asked it.
If the name is to be changed, I have a few ideas.
(Interruptions).
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
I have already asked it.
Thank you.
I express my shock at some of the remarks made about the latest Cloyne report, that we should not speak about it in the House and that we should delay a debate on it in order to have time to read it. As the House will be sitting next Tuesday afternoon, I do not see why we cannot debate it then. This is an urgent national issue. Child abuse is a most cruel act that also affects the victims' parents, families and friends. People's lives are destroyed by it. The Catholic Church cannot be above the law and must be responsible to the State. We have let off bankers and are now letting off church people. They must stand before the law and be treated accordingly. As has been said many times in this Chamber, these matters will not be resolved until the people see wrongdoers behind bars for the financial trauma endured by our little country and until the Catholic Church is made accountable and people are sent to prison for what they have done to children. They must increasingly be seen to be brought in shackled. I was quite shocked when I heard it said this morning that we should wait a while before having a discussion on the report. Have we become so anaesthetised to what was eloquently presented to us, with empathy, by the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, and our former colleague, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, who is an outstanding Minister? We need an urgent debate on the report with one of the two Ministers in attendance. We are a shame to the world. I cannot resist saying the Catholic Church is male-dominated. How many young men were sent away to become brothers or priests before their sexuality developed? I know sexual abuse is not confined to religious orders, but we must examine the issue. They were sent away at 12 or 13 years of age.
I am sure the Senator can make these points during the debate.
I am quite shocked that humour was brought into the discussion and also that it was suggested we should postpone a debate on the report. Everybody can read it tonight, as we all have received a copy, or have we become so anaesthetised? We have received four reports; are we no longer shocked by them?
Is the Senator supporting the call for a debate?
I also support the call for an urgent debate on the Cloyne report next Tuesday. It is an urgent matter that affects many vulnerable individuals in society. We should hold such a debate next week to show the true value and potential of this House in discussing important matters.
I support Senator Thomas Byrne's call for an urgent debate on the social welfare cuts to be introduced by the Labour Party Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton. It is outrageous that the most vulnerable in society will have to face such cuts at a difficult economic time for them. It is disingenuous for any Government representative to say the cuts are being imposed as a result of the conditions attached to the EU-IMF bailout. As we all know, with no assistance from the Government, the Fianna Fáil grouping, including Senators Darragh O'Brien and Thomas Byrne, met the troika officials this week. They made it abundantly clear that no straitjacket was being imposed on policy issues or financial decisions, that it was solely a matter for the Government to decide. It is, therefore, disingenuous for the Government or the Minister to say the conditions attached to the EU-IMF bailout are setting the parameters. It is a political decision by the Labour Party and Fine Gael to cut social welfare jpayments; therefore, they should not try to blame others outside the country for such decisions.
We should have a debate on the overall social welfare budget to see how the most vulnerable can be protected. What steps are the Labour Party and the Minister, Deputy Joan Burton, taking to protect them? If those on low incomes are to be affected by social welfare reductions, is that not an indication that the most vulnerable will not be protected? In a few weeks the House will rise for the summer recess, but I hope a debate can be facilitated on the overall social welfare budget before then.
Senators Darragh O'Brien, Thomas Byrne, Brian Ó Domhnaill, Jim D'Arcy and others called for a debate on social welfare payments. Apart from the EU-IMF deal, the country is spending €18 billion more than it is taking in. Householders must run their affairs properly and that is what the Government is setting about doing. This is long overdue and the Government will do so in the fairest possible way.
It is not long overdue because we made adjustments to the tune of €20 billion. I asked what commitment was given in the programme for Government.
Senators James Heffernan, Mark Daly, Brian Ó Domhnaill, Mary White, Terry Leyden, Paul Bradford, Rónán Mullen, David Cullinane, Thomas Byrne, Susan O'Keeffe and others referred to the shocking report on the deplorable situation in Cloyne between 1996 and 2009. The time for guidelines has passed.
Hear, hear.
The Government has set a course to introduce legislation to make it a criminal offence to withhold information on child abuse. Such legislation is long overdue. We had an excellent debate on the Murphy report and it would be worthwhile looking back on the contributions of Members and former Members to that debate. The protection of children should be paramount in any Government's mind. Our thoughts must be with and our support provided for the survivors of child abuse, as well as for those victims who have passed on. We should be thinking of them today after the publication of such a report. We must also think of the good priests who are working in every community who feel humiliated by the actions of their evil colleagues, not only in Cloyne but also in many other dioceses. I will try to facilitate a debate on the report next week or the following week. We will request either the Minister for Justice and Equality or the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs to attend the House, although I know a lot of their time will be taken up in preparing legislation to deal with these matters. However, I am sure that if their diaries permit it, we will have them here to discuss this dreadful situation as outlined in the report published yesterday.
I agree totally with Senator Fiach Mac Conghail on idealism and positivity within the arts. I am a former chairman of the Garter Lane Arts Centre in Waterford, as well as the city's light opera festival committee. As I said yesterday, a debate on the arts and culture will be organised early in the autumn. I am sure the Minister for the Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, will be delighted to attend the House for an exchange of views on the arts.
Senator Barrett asked that Mr. Chopra would be invited to address the House. We will add him to the long list of people who are requested to come to the House and it will be discussed by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. I agree with the Senator that if at all possible, universal health insurance should be introduced sooner than the Minister envisages. I will certainly pass on the Senator's comments to the Minister, on which I am sure he shares the Senator's concerns. I am also sure the Minister would like to have the universal health insurance in place sooner than envisaged. We dealt with the issue of Palestinian statehood yesterday. We will certainly bring the matter to the attention of the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and will endeavour at a later stage to invite the Minister to the House to debate the Middle East situation.
Senator Cullinane spoke about the Cloyne report and the cuts in social welfare, which I have addressed. Senator Bradford also wants a debate on the Middle East and I have commented on the Cloyne report. Senators MacSharry and O'Keeffe referred to the wonderful achievements of students attending Sligo IT. They called for the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, to come to the House to debate support for institutes of technology and Senator MacSharry's request to deal with entrepreneurships in primary schools and beyond. I will certainly try to get the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, to the House. I am not sure if he has been here yet. It is an item on which we hope to get him to come here.
Senator Paul Coghlan brought to our attention the plight of Killarney House, as he has done on several occasions in the House. Senator Healy Eames spoke about the discrepancy in the numbers of PPS numbers and the population, which is a frightening situation. She was asked to raise the matter on the Adjournment and I suggest she should do so. Senator Conway spoke about the seven wonders of nature competition involving the Cliffs of Moher and the importance of the project for tourism, not only in Clare but throughout the country. He also spoke about a labour relations problem and I am glad the matter has made progress since he last raised it and I hope he will have further success on the matter.
I do not propose to comment on Senator D'Arcy's comments on the name change for Fianna Fáil.
Neither do we.
We will take on board any ideas he has.
Order of Business agreed to.