Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 19 Jan 2012

Vol. 212 No. 12

Job Creation: Statements

Senator Michael Mullins

I thank the Leader for facilitating this important and innovative debate — it could even be termed a brainstorming session — which will prove useful and productive. The high level of unemployment is the greatest challenge facing the country. The loss of our best and brightest to emigration is impacting on nearly every family, community, club, organisation and business. Our economic recovery is dependent on getting people back to work in order that income tax can be generated to pay for the many services provided by the State, while reducing the dependency on social welfare for the majority of those who want to be gainfully employed.

The fact that we are in the worst global recession since the 1930s makes the creation of employment all the more challenging. We need to think outside the box to consider what opportunities can be exploited to create badly needed employment. It is true the Government does not create jobs, but it can create the environment in which they are created. On taking office the Taoiseach said he wanted to make Ireland the best small country in which to do business. Accordingly, the Government must focus on issues such as further improving our competitiveness, reducing bureaucracy, increasing funding from the banks which particularly affects small businesses, improving infrastructure and education and retaining the 12.5% corporation tax rate, as well as providing incentives for multinationals and indigenous companies to invest in job creation projects.

Even in the midst of the recession, some sectors of the economy are performing well. Last year exports by multinationals, particularly pharmaceutical and health care companies, were up 9%, making it the second highest figure on record. Our trade surplus in 2011 amounted to €4.3 billion, an increase of 16%. Agricultural exports now amount to €9 billion, with food exports up by 14% and dairy products by a whopping 28%. The tourism sector showed significant growth in 2011, with an increase of 7% in visitor numbers. These sectors have the potential to generate further growth and jobs. The fact that eight out of ten of the world's largest medical device and pharmaceutical companies are located in Ireland gives IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland a major marketing advantage in their efforts to attract foreign direct investment. Our improving competitiveness will help, but we must ensure we have in place the physical infrastructure and skilled personnel required by these companies if we are to benefit from the global economic upturn that will inevitably come in the next few years.

There is much potential to generate growth and promote job creation in the tourism sector. Ireland has a great tourism product, with the best food and hotels, for example. We will celebrate many historical events in the next five years. This year, the Eucharistic Congress will take place in Ireland and the Olympic Games in London. When tourists visit Ireland, we need to attract them throughout out the country. Travel costs are a major issue we need to address. Heavily discounted rail and bus tickets should be available for tourists on producing their airline or ferry tickets. This initiative needs to be marketed aggressively because, for example, the numbers travelling here to partake in angling activities have decreased significantly in recent years.

The construction sector caused many of our economic problems but it can help the economic recovery. The Government should consider providing a grant or tax relief for a home improvement scheme targeted at older homes to make them more energy efficient, comfortable and adapted to cater for older, less mobile people. Such a scheme would clean up some of the black economy issues because contractors engaged in this work would have to be registered and tax compliant. A significant number of jobs could be created quickly. An incentive to provide for the extension of family homes should be also considered where accommodation is provided for a family member who may be on a council housing list or in receipt of rent allowance. I suggest this because many young people will never have access to the money to finance their own homes. This should be considered for rural Ireland, in particular, where sites are larger.

We need to make it easier for people to switch from social welfare to work even on a temporary basis. Many small employers say they find it difficult to attract people to take up part-time or short-term work because of the loss of benefits they will suffer and the waiting time to reclaim benefits. It should be a simple system where one could go to an employment exchange and indicate that one worked for two days and claim for three days. This would cut out the bureaucracy and make it easy for employers to take people on a short-term basis.

The Government needs to take four actions to aid small businesses, namely, address the lack of credit provided by banks to viable businesses; reduce red tape; link the rates system to turnover or profitability; and give a financial incentive to companies to hire additional employees with a baseline of 31 December 2011. The Government should also examine the service it provides and consider if the private sector could deliver a better and more cost effective service. I suggest this against the backdrop of decreasing numbers in the public service. A good example is a home help service provided for the elderly in my area by Roscommon Home Services. Last year, it added 70 new workers because of the demand for its services.

We need to properly resource county enterprise boards. There are many unemployed people with skills and ideas who could create jobs. They are easy to access, the minimum of red tape would need to be overcome and they have a proven track record. Many successful small businesses were given a start by a county enterprise board and we should have a county by county call for ideas. A job creation supremo or ambassador should be appointed who would report to the Minister to centrally co-ordinate all employment initiatives introduced by Departments, State agencies, businesses, employers, colleges and universities. This person would link employment strategy in the private sector with training and education and the policies of the Government and State agencies. I very much welcome the debate and I hope many good ideas will evolve from it. I look forward to the Minister bringing them forward.

Senator Mary M. White

I would like to focus on countries that will be the new engines of growth for Ireland such as Russia, China and India. As Senator Mullins said, Bord Bia reported last week that sales in the agrifood sector increased by €1 billion last year but we are still relying too much on the UK market, given 41% of food and drink products were exported to that market. It is not good enough that we are still so heavily reliant on this market.

Exports have increased to the Netherlands, Germany and France but my message is that the Government needs to invest in teaching the languages used in the new engines of growth, such as Russia, South America, India and China. My experience of setting up a business began in a kitchen and involved going on the road burning shoe leather to generate sales. My purpose was to create employment. We did not have a marketing budget and all the money had to go into production. I had to carry boxes in cars and on buses and trains and I put a large number of boxes on the carousel in Moscow airport when I started selling Lir chocolates in Russia. Britain has traded for hundreds of years but, because we were colonised for more than 800 years, we have only got into trading in recent decades. Irish people prefer to market rather than sell in my experience. One has to have fire in one's belly to sell. One cannot be afraid of rejection and I understand that having been there myself. It is much different from cold calling such as when one is canvassing for a Seanad nomination and is trying to get the message across that one is a decent, trustworthy person with whom to do business.

Senator Martin Conway

The Senator has proved herself in that regard.

Senator Mary M. White

China has 1.3 billion people, almost 20% of the world's population, while Russia's population is 143 million and South America has 590 million people. The Government should invest in every level of education, beginning at primary level, in order that people learn more foreign languages such as Mandarin, Russian and Spanish. It is tremendous to be able to speak French and German and I do not take from that but the new engines of growth are Russia, China, South America and India. We must be able to communicate in their language. It will help business people on the way but they still have to cut the deal and make the sale. We need to become multilingual in order that when we break into new markets, we can speak, for example, Mandarin, Russian and Spanish.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade recently signed a trade agreement with Russia. Typically, Ministers are accompanied by business people on trade missions. That is pleasant and nice from a social perspective but the difficult part is doing the hard sell with one's product and convincing somebody to take it. I hope I am getting my point across that we need to have proficiency in languages, the new engine of growth. I ask Senators to, please, bear with me on the cost issue, already mentioned by Senator Michael Mullins.

Mr. Ger Tighe, Townsend Street, Dublin has gone to the trouble of writing to me about labour costs in Ireland. According to EUROSTAT, in 2008 hourly labour costs were 60% higher in the Twenty-six Counties than in the Six Counties. Operating costs in the North are highly competitive, with typical salaries in the financial services sector approximately 30% below those in Dublin. While we hear talk from the Government about competitiveness, there is no action. The Government can do something about electricity costs. Our gas prices are 4.76% higher than those in the rest of the eurozone countries and 52% higher than the UK average. Electricity prices in Ireland are 19.3% higher than the eurozone country average and the UK average. I do not know how we can compete. Some 41% of our business is done in the United Kingdom. It is much cheaper to manufacture and do business in the North than it is here. Irish people need to get out of their comfort zone, not just be into marketing and fancy plans. They need to have the stomach to go out, sell and promote their products. David Dand — may he rest in peace — carried bags of bottles around Europe to promote the Baileys brand. As I did the same with Lir chocolates, I know it is not easy.

An Cathaoirleach

And around the country.

Senator John Gilroy

I suggest Senator White carry out a marketing exercise and bring a few here.

Senator Marie Moloney

We could have a tasting night.

Senator John Gilroy

Some of us do not have a need for them on occasion.

Senator Mary M. White

Actually, Lir chocolates are an aphrodisiac.

Senator John Gilroy

This debate on job creation ideas is very important. Governments do not create jobs — except in the public service — and as the Government is committed to reducing numbers in the public service, that avenue is closed off to us. Therefore, if the Government cannot create jobs, we can certainly create the framework in which jobs can be created. Multinationals account for 2% of enterprises in Ireland, yet they account for about 20% of employment. More than 200,000 enterprises trade in the State, employing 900,000 people. Some 90% of SMEs employ fewer than ten people. If we are to create this framework, there is a great number of things the Government could do and we would do well to concentrate our attention on the small and medium enterprise sector. We need to support SMEs to help them to maintain and increase the numbers in employment.

The lifeblood of business is access to credit. A recent ISME study shows that nearly half of small and medium-sized enterprises were refused credit in the past three months, which means that Ireland ranks second only to Greece in credit refusals. While the banks will dispute these figures, we must ask whether they have given us any reason to believe them. We all know the answer to this question. A feature of Irish lending practice that is so pervasive that it is taken for granted by many borrowers is the provision of personal guarantees. We might make an argument that banks wish to collateralise their loans which may be fair enough, but when we see this being applied to limited companies, we should be suspicious. Limited companies limit the liability of company owners in order that personal assets are not put at risk. The owners are protected from their creditors, but with personal guarantees the banks retain a claim on personal assets. It seems strange that the institutions charged with providing capital forcompanies, the core job of which is to access and manage risk, are the only ones to have a claim on the personal assets of owners.

We have seen how personal guarantees were required for access to credit for many of the biggest construction companies in recent years and can see exactly how useless they proved to be in covering loans. No amount of personal assets could guarantee the borrowing of hundreds of millions of euro, nor was it the function of the personal guarantee in these instances. It seems the banks were relying on personal guarantees to concentrate the minds of borrowers on the business discipline required to repay borrowings. However, these guarantees distracted the lending institutions from the real issues around repaying loans, issues such as the core potential of companies to repay borrowings, based on realistic business plans and properanalysis of their ability to repay. The guarantees helped to create the very problems they had been designed to prevent. However, no lessons were learned. The banks continue to insist on the provision of personal guarantees.

I have spoken to several business people in recent weeks about this issue. A robust business plan was produced in all cases of persons seeking credit and the credit meeting went well until the issue of personal guarantees was raised by the bank. Without the personal guarantee, there would be no loan. The quality of the business plan and the potential of the business were not enough; they were hardly even assessed by the lending institutions. The single criterion for granting loans was the owners' personal assets and ability of these assets to repay the loan. One company had a turnover of more than €5 million and the loan sought was €60,000. Without a personal guarantee, the loan was refused.

Senator Martin Conway

It is shocking.

Senator John Gilroy

I agree. In another case a company lodged €400,000 on deposit — venture money that had been gathered. A €40,000 balance was required for the business to set up. Again, the meeting with the lending institution went well until the issue of the personal guarantee was raised. The loan was refused without a personal guarantee, even though the €400,000 would be spent before the overdraft came into play. The creation of eight jobs remains at risk and will probably not be created.

I could talk about this isue all day because I have been very active on it in recent months. A final case concerns a borrower who was asked by the bank to provide a retrospective personal guarantee for a loan taken out two years previously, which is outrageous.

Senator Mary M. White

It is crazy.

Senator John Gilroy

If we think the provision of personal guarantees is a problem, the problem is compounded by the requirement of some banks for all directors to provide a personal guarantee which makes all directors of a company jointly and severally responsible. Therefore, for a company with five directors seeking a loan of, for example, €10,000, each of the directors is responsible for the full €10,000, instead of the directors being responsible for €2,000 each, allowing the company to spread the risk.

We have sympathy for the lender which wishes to reduce risk and it is prudent that it do so, but we cannot tolerate the lender which wishes to eliminate it completely. That is not the function of the banking industry, unless, of course, we wish to see it become the growth industry, instead of conducting business as a bank should. The core duty of a bank in this regard is to channel capital into the more important areas of the economy. We own the banks and need to decide what we want to do. Do we want the banks to dictate economic activity and stifle it as they are doing or can we do something more? The banks have moved full circle — from being profligate in the past to being completely risk averse today.

The Minister should consider the issue of personal guarantees and see if this practice is restricting access to credit as the anecdotal evidence suggests it is. If so, I would go so far as to suggest he should introduce legislation, if deemed necessary, to ban the giving of personal guarantees.

Senator Katherine Zappone

I thank the Leader for holding this think tank session on job creation because the topic is not only of great significance but also timely. Last week the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, said: "As a society and as a Government, we must become obsessed with jobs." I have two messages for him and they will form the shape of my intervention.

The first message is that social innovation delivers jobs and the second is that the jobs action plan must include social innovation proposals. I am a social entrepreneur. I have fire in my belly, Senator White, but it is not for selling — it is for something else. I bring an entrepreneurial and innovative determination to solving social problems. Some 25 years ago, my life partner, Dr. Ann Louise Gilligan, and I established a community organisation with and for people living in Tallaght. The problem was poverty, especially women's poverty, and the solution was education. This was our simple formula back in 1986. We started with 12 women and one course in our sitting room in the Shanty and now we have a large multi-purpose building, An Cosán, in Jobstown, which educates more than 400 adults and 200 children each year. Recently, we set up Fledglings, a not-for-profit social franchise model for the provision of early years education and care services with five centres having already been established.

What has been the impact of these works? Thousands of people from Tallaght, through education and subsequent employment, have broken the intergenerational cycle of poverty. In terms of the House's debate, this example is helpful, not only for the social impact achieved, but also for the number of jobs that the organisation has delivered in a sustainable way. An Cosán employs 105 people, 90% of whom are from Tallaght, and contributes €760,000 to the local Tallaght economy and €515,000 to the Exchequer by way of taxes.

I will highlight the Jack and Jill Children's Foundation, founded by my colleague, Senator Mary Ann O'Brien, which is another case of social innovation that provides care and support for children with severe neurological development issues and offers respite to parents and families. It has created 17 full-time jobs and has a network of 1,000 carers across the country. Other Senators may have undertaken projects in this regard, but these two case studies have delivered jobs and social solutions.

Social innovation meets social needs and contributes to economic growth. Social entrepreneurs tackle entrenched social and environmental problems for the benefit of society. Social enterprises are organisations or businesses set up to tackle social, economic or environmental issues that engage in trading or commercial activities to pursue these objectives. We are not profit driven and we use excess income, if we have any, to further our social mission rather than to benefit owners and shareholders.

Social Entrepreneurs Ireland, chaired by Mr. Declan Ryan, is a prime mover in the field of social innovation and supports more than 150 social entrepreneurs to grow social change and create jobs. Each of these entrepreneurs has created on average 23 employment opportunities. I will reschedule a briefing by them for next week. According to figures in the report of the social enterprise task force chaired by Mr. Maurice Healy, the social enterprise sector employs more than 9,300 people, a great many jobs. If the sector is supported properly, it holds considerable potential for thousands more jobs.

The Minister, Deputy Bruton, stated that the jobs action plan will focus on "the changes necessary to make jobs a priority in this society." One prime change is the need to drive the growth and development of the social enterprise sector. The Government included such a commitment in its programme to build national recovery. The jobs action plan, which we have been promised will be with us relatively soon, should include social innovation proposals. Some well-researched proposals include: designating a Minister of State with responsibility for the social entrepreneurship and social enterprise sector; establishing a social innovation unit within the responsible Minister of State's Department to drive the formulation and execution of policy at national and local level; incorporating social entrepreneurship and social enterprise into the brief of county enterprise boards, CEBs, Enterprise Ireland and local authorities' community and enterprise sections; and creating a social innovation fund by developing a new partnership between the Government and private investors, in this case philanthropists. For example, the UK's Big Society Capital group offers £600 million of equity in Britain. This is viewed as an investment to bridge the social divide.

Social innovation delivers jobs, increases well-being — as many of us know from the briefing provided by the Central Statistics Office. The CSO defines well-being as an increase in income, more employment and less deprivation. Social innovation also contributes to the reversal of an erosion of our social as well as economic sovereignty. I hope we will see proposals such as the ones I have outlined in the new jobs plan.

Senator Tom Sheahan

I hope that the jobs action plan will focus on the short term, as the most pressing issue for everyone is the need for jobs to be created in the short term. I have never been and probably never will be one for airy fairy ideas, for example, that there might be a market for X, Y or Z in 20 or 30 years time. We need to start creating jobs and producing now.

To this end, I am involved with a group that is developing a hydroelectric station in south County Kerry. To give the House an idea of the project's scale, 300 jobs would be created during the three years of construction and the dam would measure 1.25 sqare miles. The water would be pumped by windmills from the sea into the mountains and the lake. On its way back down, it would turn the turbines to create electricity, which would be transmitted by underwater cable to Moneypoint. An investment of €3 billion is required and all Government agencies need to come on board.

When I first raised this idea at committee level, the response of a member of staff at the then Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food told me a great deal about bureaucracy. I grasped the idea as a way forward in terms of significant job creation, but the departmental official's first reaction was to throw eight or ten obstacles at me one after another, including the need for offshore and foreshore licences. This was an indictment of the type of advice and people involved in this area. I hope that the relevant Government agencies can work together to bring the project to fruition.

Our nearest neighbour, Great Britain, will need to import electricity from 2015 until 2035, presenting us with a 20-year market. We are Britain's nearest neighbour and have that electricity. Just in case anyone is wondering where we will get the €3 billion from, the funding is already available, but I want the agencies to do what must be done to bring the project to fruition.

On a smaller scale, the majority of my constituency is coastal. A member of the community approached me some time ago regarding job creation. Although the timing is ironic, I have in my possession three letters from companies that run cruise holidays and are seeking somewhere to berth in Kerry. Their ships carry anywhere between 1,500 and 6,000 tourists who, by and large, are well-heeled, retirees or just people who have come into a few pounds and have always wanted to take a cruise. A small investment in the renovation and extension of a pier in my constituency would result in 30,000 extra visitors to south Kerry. I recently told the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, in response to his statement that no money was available for capital investment, that regeneration of Limerick, which is costing billions of euro, is going ahead and that €2 million would regenerate the whole of south Kerry. Three different companies have expressed an interest in berthing on the Kerry coast. The Government must play its part. I do not believe the response from the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, that he does not have €1.5 million, which would assist in the creation of hundreds of jobs, was satisfactory. Funding must be ring-fenced for special projects which can create jobs.

Senator John Crown

I want to focus today on the need for us to recognise the necessity for, not alone financial but cultural investment in technology, bio-medicine, in particular science and general research. I was reminded recently of the famous and, it is hoped, apocryphal story about George Bush junior when he said the trouble with the French was that they did not have a word for "entrepreneur". The phrase "social entrepreneur" has emerged recently. It has dawned on me that I am one, although I did not realise it.

Senator Katherine Zappone

You are.

Senator John Crown

I thank Senator Zappone.

Senator Mark Daly

The Senator is so much more than that.

Senator John Crown

In the context of other work in which I was engaged in recent days, I did a little mental arithmetic on a small nugget initiative which we started approximately 11 or 12 years ago, which I reckon has brought tens of millions of euro into the country and has probably created approximately 200 jobs, namely, formalising the arrangement of the country for to conduct cancer clinical research. I will try not bore the House with all the details. However, as new drugs become available for cancer patients, they must be trialed and studied, sadly in patients' whose cancers are far advanced, who have no other option and who may be desperate and willing to try anything, even if speculative. As the drug becomes a little more established in terms of what it can and cannot do, it is then given, in conjunction with existing treatment, to patients who, perhaps, have a slightly better outlook in terms of their cancer. Needless to say the ethical, legal and professional considerations in organising this endeavour are complex.

Internationally, large organisations are primarily focused on ethical research conducted under the aegis of the Helsinki treaty and on research which is scientifically appropriate in terms of providing answers in regard to whether new treatments are actually better. Sadly, with the exception of some heroic figures, including Professor Shaun McCann who undertook this work on leukemia patients in St. James's and Professor Tom Hennessy, who did it also in St. James's on patients with oesophagus cancer, there is no global Irish network for doing this.

In 1997, my colleague, Professor John Armstrong and I, established the Irish Co-operative Oncology Research Group on — to say it was a shoe-string budget would be an exaggeration — no budget. The feeling at the time was that in Ireland the first item on the agenda — to quote Brendan Behan — at the first meeting of any new organisation is the split. We did not have a split. We survived and did what people thought was not possible, namely, we got all the cancer specialists in the country to join the organisation. While originally there were only a few of us, the organisation now comprises 350 members, including oncologists, surgeons, radiotherapists, cancer-focused nurses and scientists. What is more, a country that was putting no patients on international breast cancer studies recently placed its 7,000th patient on one. As a result of this, a number of drugs, including, Herceptin, which have been shown to be life prolonging, life saving and quality of life enhancing in patients with breast cancer have been made available to Irish patients years in advance of when they would otherwise have been made available. Another drug, Gleevec, is being used to treat leukemia. As a result of the existence of ICORG patients are receiving treatment approximately two years ahead of the European average. As such, there are many people alive who would not be alive but for the existence of this group.

Needless to say, we were fairly self-congratulatory about what we had achieved. We were also happy that we had brought millions of euro worth of free drugs into the country. One of two papers from Ireland included in the New England Journal of Medicine in October was mine on behalf of ICORG. This journal is the world’s leading medical journal. This would not have happened had ICORG not been established. This has enabled young people to see the benefits of a career in oncology and to develop a love for research and be stimulated by it. It has also been great for patients. One of my happiest moments was approximately eight or nine years ago when a patient thanked me for information on a particular treatment and then asked, “Is there a trial because I would like to join a trial?” It is completely part of culture for people to do this now.

As regards job impact, ICORG receives funding from a mixture of sources, including philanthropic sources, companies in respect of studies, the cancer society and, increasingly, through the health research board by way of peer reviewed grants, which are rigorously applied for and reviewed by international review panels. As a result, there are approximately 100 people working for ICORG, 20 in the central office in Dublin and 80 mostly research nurses dispersed across various hospital sites in the country who are available to patients wishing to join trials and to ensure a high level of compliance. Patients from as far away as Letterkenny, Limerick, Waterford and Galway can now join ICORG studies. They can get access to drugs to which they would not otherwise have had access.

It dawned on us lately that to service the sophisticated needs of the trials, the international drug companies, whose affiliates in Ireland were previously no more than a couple of representatives driving around the country giving out biros and selling drugs, now have research and development and clinical trials offices, which we estimate have created 150 highly paid jobs here, which are entirely funded from external sources. This is about as close to win-win as one can get. I know, having had the privilege of meeting and discussing these issues with the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, that he is well disposed towards research. We need to keep this issue on his agenda and on the agenda of the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. We could replicate this in every area of biomedicine in Ireland, including in cardiology — we have one of the highest rates of heart attacks — and in the treatment of arthritis and diabetes. I believe this could result in hundreds, if not thousands, of highly paid jobs and in the attraction of a huge amount of investment. Investment tends to raise standards in the health service.

As I have stated several times before, if we are to change this culture, it is essential that every student in Ireland studies science until the day they leave school. Whether they intend a career in science, it is important that they understand it if they are to be part of the national debate on scientific advances.

Senator Ivana Bacik

I note the reaction of the children in the Visitors Gallery to Senator Crown's suggestion that the study of science the whole way through school should be compulsory. It is certainly an innovative suggestion.

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. It is a new departure for the Seanad to hold an idea-sharing or, as others have described it, a "think tank" session in which we can generate ideas and new concepts on job creation which we will then share with the Minister and will feed into the policy process on job creation. I agree with those colleagues who pointed out how important and vital job creation is for the future of the economy and in terms of us pulling ourselves out of the current economic crisis we are experiencing. Some excellent ideas have been already put forward. This shows the strength of the Seanad and the wide range of different experiences and expertise which each Senator brings. I note, as I look around the Chamber, the number of people here who could be described as entrepreneurs, social or commercial or both.

Some of the ideas put forward, including the social innovation office and job supremo, are useful ideas that will help the Government in facilitating the creation of jobs. As Senator Gilroy stated, we must be mindful of Government's role in this. I would like to address two points. My first is an idea not for job creation but for job support and retention of jobs. This was referred to in the Unite trade union's submission of May last to the Government's job initiative. It is a concept I came across with the German model — its car manufacturing industry in particular — and what happens when there is a downturn in consumption and the purchasing of cars, as happens from time to time internationally. One finds that in certain Lånder, or states, there is a very well developed subsidy scheme where employees are kept on, retaining the jobs in car manufacturing, but there is a subsidy from the state. It saves the state having to support the payment of redundancy and people from going on social welfare. The state ends up subsidising private industry to some extent. Unite has referred to this as the "exceptional short time working scheme" and points out that it has worked in other European countries, and as I mentioned, I am familiar with the German scheme. It allows employees reduce working hours without loss of job or income. Essentially, individuals employed in the car manufacturing industry go on shorter weeks of two to three days and are paid a reduced wage topped up by the state. This keeps people in work and the employer's business going while saving the state in the long term by retaining jobs. We should consider it here for certain areas and sectors.

Another idea comes from my background in legal training and education. To those who believe the public sector is bereft of entrepreneurial ability, I argue there are many examples of entrepreneurs created from the university sector. Some of our most successful indigenous companies have come from academia. I am currently on unpaid leave from the law school in Trinity and colleagues some years ago set up a very successful masters in law programme that has generated a significant amount of income for the university and the law school.

Having spoken to legal colleagues, I wanted to try to use that experience. A key idea would be to export legal services, particularly in legal education, in which we have a very good reputation. I trained at the bar in London and saw that at the Inns of Court School of Law, a large number of people — generally from the Commonwealth but also from other countries — came to London not just to study academic law but also to take a professional training course that would qualify them for the bar of England and their home countries. It occurs to me it would be very useful model for us to use as an English-speaking nation steeped in the same common law tradition. We could consider such markets, many of which are emerging, and the universities are already targeting those student numbers. We could also consider this in light of professional legal training. Universities are already looking to build on that process.

We will have a debate on the Legal Services Regulation Bill, which envisages the opening up of professional legal training to the university sector beyond the current professional bodies. There are also opportunities for expanding the body of students we envisage teaching. There is a very sad fact of life in legal training currently in that we are educating many of our own students for export, and it is very hard for recent graduates in Ireland to get work in the legal professions. We must consider how to take a positive from the level of legal education we can offer by looking to offer it to people from other countries, in anticipation that such people would return to their countries with the benefit of legal training here. We could expand the legal education system in that way, not only creating jobs but a great deal of good will. It would strengthen our links with many countries.

Somebody mentioned our trade links with Libya and there are immense opportunities for us in developing further links with countries in the Middle East, north Africa and in the Far East, where there are many emerging markets, as others have said.

Senator Mark Daly

This is a timely and most welcome debate. We should have more like it. I suggest an amendment to its content, and the public consultation committee, of which I am a member, could play a role. The proposal is for experts in different fields of business, education and law — there are some experts in this room — to be invited to the Seanad Chamber with the relevant line Minister to outline detailed and specific proposals on legislation or statutory instruments that affect job creation in the country. This should not be a brief debate where we argue that a Minister should change the law relating to planning or foreshore licences, for example, because they prevent job creation. We should examine legislation, amendments and how they affect EU law. We must ensure that we do not breach EU regulations. We should ask representatives of the organisations which are greatly affected by the laws we create here, although the regulations may be unintentionally preventing job creation. Those affected should come before us with proposals to change the laws.

I suggest we have a session like this on a Thursday afternoon every fortnight. There is no more pressing job now than creating employment for people in this country. If the call goes out through the public consultation committee inviting organisations to come before us to make detailed presentations on the legislation we need to change to help create jobs or prevent job losses, there could be a role for the Seanad. I know there is no Minister present today but we should have a line Minister involved. A briefing would be given well in advance to which the Minister could respond. The proposals should be detailed, including, for example, the amount of jobs that could be created. Nobody should be brought in just to make a pitch, for example, to change foreshore licences, etc. That is not a good enough day's work, and we must work in a specific and detailed way on the required changes.

I spoke in the earlier debate on what is preventing job creation. We did the Valentia Island red tape report as an exercise in Kerry. The island has a population of approximately 600, which is falling, and we found that 72 jobs could not be created because of Government red tape. That is aside from access to funds in the banks, which is another issue. The jobs in question are viable, as a marina is being funded by the private sector but the foreshore licensing system is difficult, bureaucratic and not streamlined, despite the fact that we introduced a new piece of legislation recently. Those difficulties mean 35 jobs will not be created. There is a hotel across from the marina but the infrastructure is not in place. Although the funding was available, bureaucracy means the hotel cannot expand. A boat yard that could also create jobs is also seeing planning objections from outside the area, which are not allowed in England. A person should have the right to object if he or she lived within a certain radius full time but people coming for a few weeks every year are objecting to this proposal, so the planning application has been stopped.

The issue preventing the creation of jobs can be within the Government. We all know the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Government do not create jobs but rather the framework to do so. We are not in the business of giving jobs to people, as it is not sustainable. The private sector creates employment and it is our job to facilitate that. The public consultation committee and its structure could facilitate industry representatives in coming before us to outline what legislative changes are required to help create jobs.

Senator Paul Coghlan

This exercise is most important, as everybody has said, and it may prove very useful if any good ideas are aired. It could prove very worthwhile and the ideas could be a great aid to the Government if it listens to them. As several speakers have mentioned, we all know the importance in business of access to credit, and unfortunately, there is a lack of credit and capital currently that is hindering job creation. The Government's partial loan guarantee scheme should be introduced without delay and must be larger than the proposed €150 million per annum over three years. The microfinance loan fund must be accessible as soon as possible.

On the cost of doing business, further employment incentives should be introduced such as granting tax credits to employers for every unemployed individual hired and retained for a certain period, for example, one year. Firms should be encouraged to reduce business costs, including by way of managing stock levels, reducing waste and identifying ways to increase productivity.

Reform of the system of local authority funding is vital. We should accelerate the introduction of the annual property tax and water charges to ensure commercial rates will not remain a burden on small and medium-sized enterprises. We should also reduce the number of licences or permits required by a single business for operation. Their cost as well as the renewal process for them can be particularly onerous.

On public sector procurement, we should enable greater access to public tenders by small and medium-sized enterprises by reducing the administrative burden and not having rigid application criteria. Firms have also complained about the absence of formal appeals mechanisms. This should be put right and the Government should be open to consortium bids from SMEs. Tenders could be split into lots, where appropriate.

We should do more to make the public more aware of the impact of black economy activity on legitimate businesses which are suffering in certain areas. A centralised advisory service would assist small firms in producing a credible business plan for banks and credit unions when attempting to access credit. The creation of a one-stop shop information web portal for small business and potential entrepreneurs would also be a great help.

With the right structures and incentives in place, there must be an opportunity for Ireland to develop and market itself as a global centre of choice for the management, licensing and trading of intellectual property. I refer to patents, copyright, design rights and trademarks.

Senator Lorraine Higgins

I commend Members for suggesting we bring this very important matter to the fore to elicit ideas on job creation. This is the foremost consideration for every citizen and I am glad to say that the Government is committed to tackling the issue of unemployment. We saw this recently in our efforts to create jobs through various initiatives such as the JobBridge programme, the jobs initiative and the reduction in VAT for the tourism sector.

This is a very significant issue affecting every city, town, village and household. In particular, rural towns are dying a death as they watch their best and brightest leave in search of pastures new. Consequently, there is a sociological impact, whereby the whole fabric of communities is being destroyed. I know of areas in which there are not enough players available to field a GAA team because team members are living in Sydney. I know of towns that look no different at the weekend than on a Monday night because most of the youth are in Canada and those who are left feel there is no hope for the future.

This did not happen by accident. We only have to look back over what happened in the past few years and at the mismanagement of the economy and the economic armageddon bequeathed to us by the previous Government. We must look at both the good and the bad.

Senator Mary M. White

This is the first note of discord we have heard. We are supposed to be working together.

Acting Chairman (Senator Imelda Henry)

No interruptions, please.

Senator Mary M. White

Excuse me——

Senator Lorraine Higgins

These are the facts.

Senator Mary M. White

This is not appropriate.

Senator Lorraine Higgins

In 2009 some €9.8 billion in foreign direct investment flowed into Ireland, the fifth highest figure among all EU member states. In 2010, 63 multinationals set up or expanded, a figure that doubled in 2011.

Senator Mary M. White

Your party was not in office in that period.

Acting Chairman (Senator Imelda Henry)

Senator Lorraine Higgins to continue, without interruption.

Senator Catherine Noone

Senator Mary White should speak through the Chair.

Senator Mary M. White

We are supposed to be working together.

Senator Lorraine Higgins

The reason is clear — we offer access to a highly skilled workforce, speak English and have a low corporation tax rate which must not be touched. Our cost competitiveness has improved and we have built a critical mass of firms in a number of important industries such as pharmaceuticals, Internet and financial services. In turn, this sends a strong message internationally and bolsters our credibility as a place in which to do business.

Let us put the good news story in respect of foreign direct investment in a national context. In 2011 approximately 1,930 Irish companies failed. That means almost 160 companies collapsed every month last year. These figures include only corporate insolvencies and do not take account of sole traders or partnership failures, for which there are no official statistics available. It is plausible to assume that, for the most part, these were indigenous Irish companies. Therefore, it is imperative that we reverse this statistic through the lifeblood of credit.

As public representatives, we have been contacted by businesses about the non-availability of finance from banks. While I welcome the announcement made in the budget by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, that he has set a lending target of €3.5 billion for Bank of Ireland and AIB to SMEs, I highlight my concerns in this regard, as I have been made aware of an ugly practice rearing its head. I understand customers of these banks are having their overdraft facilities withdrawn, with unreasonable notice periods in many cases. The banks are putting the business people of Ireland under duress by forcing them to convert their overdraft facilities to term loans. They are effectively recycling loans masqueraded as new lending. This practice is not helping businesses or businesspeople and it is certainly not helping to create new jobs. As a result, we urgently need to take steps to rectify the matter because, without credit flowing through the economic arteries, we will not help businesses to grow and expand and will thus fail to create jobs. I suggest we ignore the loan approval statistics and focus on the drawdown figures in order to secure an accurate reflection of what is going on.

Other aspects are hindering the prospects of good Irish businesses growing and developing. We only have to look at the tendering processes for any State contract in Ireland. In many cases, Irish businesses which hope to compete for these contracts are stymied by the requirement that they must have a turnover of over €1 million. In the light of the harrowing statistics for business failures in Ireland in 2011, we need to eradicate this prerequisite and encourage Irish businesses to grow and develop and compete for these contracts which, in turn, will help to create Irish jobs.

We need to look further at our education model. I am advised that we have major shortages in the information communications technology sector. In particular, many software companies cannot find suitably qualified engineers. We must, therefore, look at providing subsidised training to bridge the gap. Furthermore, we must help indigenous companies to gain access to suitably qualified staff; therefore, courses should be run locally, perhaps in VECs, in order to cater for these requirements, which might limit the outsourcing of services and thus create home-grown jobs.

We have to reduce the overbearing bureaucracy in the Companies Registration Office. While I understand and respect the employees of this office have a code to adhere to, I know of one instance where a man sought to register a new business with the word "global" in the title. However, he was informed that this was not possible. He went to England and registered his business there, thus creating jobs in another country. We need to put a halt to this unfortunate practice and need to do it now.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

Tááthas orm bheith in ann labhairt ar an ábhar seo mar chaith mé roinnt bliana ag obair in earnáil na smaointeoireachta. My background is in the ideas industry. As such, I am delighted to present a few ideas on job creation.

We have huge potential in this country. I will focus on the area in which I have expertise, the arts, media, culture, language and natural resources. If we can capitalise on our culture, there is great potential. To this end, a section was set up in the business department in DCU, called Fiontar DCU. The person who set it up, Fionnbarra Ó Brolcháin, also established a number of projects to examine the Irish language and the possibility of initiating projects based on it.

Gaillimh le Gaeilge has been operating for 20 years to convince businesses that it is in their interests to use the Irish language. Recent research shows having bilingual signs and staff is worth €136 million a year to Galway. If this could be matched nationwide and done in every town and city with some seed funding, we could turn this into an island on which everyone would be bilingual, which would give us an added benefit when trying to sell the country from a tourism point of view.

I attended a think tank with the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, in Galway a while back, at which we met people from various arts groups. Somebody asked why an artist was not put on every State board because artists brought creative thinking to problem solving. We tend to think of putting accountants and people from a business background, etc., in such positions, but it might be a good idea if the Government adopted a policy of appointing artists to State boards to bring critical and creative thinking, problem-solving skills and ideas for job creation to them. In order to do this, we need to encourage such creative thinking at school. When I was in college, I set up a theatre company. We travelled around Gaeltacht areas teaching drama to children in schools. People should be sent to schools for one hour a week to give every child the experience of drama, theatre and performance because it would engender a sense of self-confidence, give them great pride in themselves and be good fun. If one could do it through Irish, it would give them some Irish language skills also. However, it would encourage the critical creative thinking that we need.

A number of years ago I saw this taken a step further in Denmark. When I was working as series producer on "Ros na Rún", we copied the concept of a cultural dynamo. As we needed to link people who thought creatively with the entrepreneurial spirit, we devised a part-time course to give them the skills to see opportunities in the cultural sphere, whether it be the media, the arts, or otherwise, and turn them into a business idea and create jobs. We need to develop a course for cultural dynamos.

At a practical level, Irish is an official language of the European Union. A number of jobs were created as a result, but there is the capacity to increase the amount of Irish used and the services provided. The European Union is actually waiting for the State to ask for more services to be provided. If the Government were to do this, we could create approximately 100 jobs for translators almost overnight. I call on it to look into this.

The development of film commissions has happened in a number of areas. For example, there is a film commission in Galway which actively seeks to sell Ireland as an ideal space in which to create films and media. We have incredibly talented film makers, writers, artists, people who can make props, etc., but we are not utilising them enough. We need to set up film commissions and provide greater support for the Irish Film Board to do this work.

Yesterday during the debate on the Irish language many Members said they would like to be able to speak Irish more. We are calling for teacher training through the medium of Irish for one year in order that everybody teaching in a primary school would have a very good level of Irish. This would have a wonderful effect on Gaeltacht areas. It would form part of the college cycle for students and be a great bonus in grounding people in the language and give them a sense of what it is like to live in a Gaeltacht area. A teacher mentioned to me that we should do this with transition year students, as it would create employment in Gaeltacht areas and give children a much better grounding in the language.

I share Senator Katherine Zappone's thoughts. Employment does not always have to be created through the private sector in that much can be done through promoting the concept of social entrepreneurship. During the years Gaeltacht areas have been very good at setting up co-operatives. We should try to set up more throughout the country. When I was in Canada recently, I saw a number of alternative energy projects, one of which on tidal energy really inspired me. A space had been provided in which one could try out different technologies. One of the companies involved was from Shannon and it was using something like a jet turbine. It was building smaller prototypes which could be bought for approximately €1 million by local co-ops. They would pay for themselves in a number of years and the money generated would be put back into local communities to generate more jobs. It would be done by giving them a preferential rate for the electricity purchased. This concept is certainly worth looking at.

If fishing quotas were changed, we could create jobs in the processing sector overnight. Some 80% of the mackerel quota is held by 27 boats in an elite industry.

I could go on for much longer, but I will not. Perhaps we might have another session like this one.

Senator Catherine Noone

I welcome the opportunity to participate in the debate and commend my colleague, Senator Michael Mullins, who came up with the idea for it. It is good to have a constructive debate in which we can come up with ideas.

I welcome many of the comments made by Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh on the arts. It is not an area on which I will focus today, but I welcome, in particular, his comments on creative individuals being appointed to State boards. They do not necessarily need to be artists but creative — perhaps artists in the wider sense. This is definitely something which should be encouraged.

There are many industries in which Ireland could become a global focal point if its talent pool was leveraged effectively. We should focus on the specific areas in which we could really make a difference in the short term while planning for the long term. An area at which I have looked is technology. The Taoiseach has spoken about the importance of cloud computing. I have seen at first-hand, while visiting a company which is creating 180 jobs in Dublin — Zynga, a Facebook-based games company worth more than €6 billion — how this could happen. Ireland could become a European, if not a global, focal point for the new wave of technology — small and large technology companies, with some focusing on cloud computing and others on the web. There is already great synergy, with Dublin becoming one of the major hubs for technology companies in Europe. Facebook, Google and Linkedln are based here, while other home-grown successes which place emphasis on technology include Paddy Power. We can continue this trend and should look to set goals and targets for the sector. Creating a further 15,000 jobs in this field is a strong possibility. However, in order to reap that reward, some changes must be made.

We need to address two major strands. In regard to investment made within the country, we need to set up more small and medium enterprises, particularly in the technology sector. We need to incentivise people to set up their own businesses in this field. We also need to make the environment more conducive to attracting venture capital and ensure incubators such as Dogpatch Labs, to which I will come back, based near the Grand Canal, are encouraged to base themselves here.

I also refer to attracting investment from outside to make Ireland, in the words of the Taoiseach, the best small country in the world in which to do business. How will we achieve this? In the technology sector we have started in the right direction. The Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, and Enterprise Ireland recently appointed a technology ambassador, an external industry expert, Mr. Dylan Collins, whose mission, in effect, is to attract entrepreneurs to Ireland. His job is to bring back enterprising people and prove to them that Ireland is the place they need to be from day one. This is a great idea and we need to push further in this direction. If successful, we should look to scale upwards.

The technology sector, in terms of web technology applications and cloud computing, is moving rapidly. By 2015 Ireland could find itself having 50% of the major companies based here. The talent is being acquired and we need to continue to be at the forefront of that hunt. Dogpatch Labs is a technology incubator unit based on Barrow Street, in my constituency of Dublin South East, in a building beside Google. It is an interesting place and based on a successful model in the United States — there are several similar incubators in California. It is an open plan office in which small technology companies share space and ideas and a model which really appeals to those involved in technology. The idea that a successful web company can get up and running with perhaps as little as €5,000 is fantastic and should be encouraged.

In addition to encouraging investment from within and attracting the best from abroad, the major challenge facing the technology sector is, surprisingly, the shortage of graduates, to which Senator Lorraine Higgins alluded. This has been pointed out in numerous studies and was the subject of a recent Irish Internet Association seminar. There are approximately 1,000 vacant jobs in the sector. In the words of Joan Mulvihill, chief executive officer of the Irish Internet Association, "The skills shortage is the greatest impediment to business growth in the digital sector." We need to address this issue. I suggest we look as a matter of urgency at having new technology universities, with IT skills at the forefront. Moreover, I suggest we look at having conversion courses in all relevant IT skills areas, including applications development and programming. It is also vital that this happen at second level. The time has come for Ireland Inc. to grasp the nettle and introduce a proper IT and programming-optional syllabus at junior and leaving certificate levels. When considering what to study in college, most people come to the view that IT is not an option because they do not know enough about it. The succession to third level is often reduced to IT hobbyists only, whereas there really should be an open door for anybody who wishes to pursue this subject.

With the measures to which I refer, I believe Ireland is poised to reap great rewards and could become a serious force in the technology sector. It could, for want of a better term, become Europe's Silicon Valley. The proposals I have offered are humble enough in nature. They could also prove to be extremely cost effective at a time when we can have a major impact and bring about positive changes. Such changes would be good for Ireland in both the short and the long term.

Senator Feargal Quinn

In 1932, when the unemployment rate in the US stood at 25%, Franklin D. Roosevelt argued for bold, persistent experimentation and stated:

It is common sense to take one method and try it. If it fails, admit failure frankly and try another. But above all, try something.

The Government must be encouraged to experiment and try new things. Some years ago, Denis Desmond approached the Government of the day with a proposal relating to establishing the Irish Financial Services Centre, IFSC, and was informed that it would not work. He approached C. J. Haughey, who was not in power at the time, with his proposal and the latter stated he would run with it. One of the messages we must get across to the Minister for Finance and others is that it is sometimes possible to make far more money on foot of a lower tax rate. In other words, by reducing the percentage one can take in more money. Those of us who are in business are aware of that. However, there appears to be an assumption, particularly among accountants and others, that the way to bring in more money is by increasing the tax rate. Past experience has shown that lower tax rates often lead to greater amounts of money being accrued. That is why we succeeded so well in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

I wish to make a number of points and hope I will have time to refer to them all. The first relates to the degree to which we concentrate on farming. There is good reason for this because farming has become a much more profitable occupation in which to be involved than was the case for some time. I would like schools to highlight to students the benefits of farming as a career. It was not possible to do this in previous years because farming was not paying for itself. However, the position has changed. It is even more important that there be support, encouragement and enthusiasm in respect of food. In the long term, food production will be even more important than farming in the context of job creation. Senator White referred to the success we have already enjoyed in this sector.

There is a need to reduce red tape. I recently spoke to an individual who opened a petrol station and who was obliged to obtain ten licences in order to run it. How can people succeed in business in such circumstances? Is it not possible to apply regulations in respect of individuals who employ four people which are different from those which obtain with regard to companies that employ 1,000? The UK's Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, Vince Cable, MP, has given a commitment to consider the position of those individuals and companies which employ fewer than ten people because he accepts that one size does not fit all.

Senator Noone referred to the Taoiseach's statement about wanting to make Ireland the best small country in which to do business. A number of years ago I visited Panama. The authorities were also keen to make it the best small country in which to do business. To that end, they discovered that one of the disincentives in their country was the length of time it took to establish a new business. They decided that Panama should be the best — it was competing with Singapore and Hong Kong in this regard — and they managed to reduce the period in which it takes to complete the necessary paperwork, etc., to establish a business there to seven hours. That is the type of approach we need to consider and it should certainly be possible to reduce the amount of time it takes to set up a small business.

Previously, I had no knowledge of the process of fracking. What would be the outcome if we were to allow the use of fracking in Ireland in order to create both jobs and the potential for billions of euro to be made? Fracking is a method of extracting natural gas by means of so-called hydraulic fracturing of shale deposits. IndigoPool, a subsidiary company of oilfield services provider Schlumberger, estimates that there are 9.4 trillion cu. ft. of gas in two of the three reservoirs in the Lough Allen basin. This equates to approximately 1.5 billion barrels of oil. The value of the gas, at current oil prices, could exceed €120 billion. In light of the predicament in which we find ourselves, I urge people to exercise common sense, pragmatism and patriotism when examining this issue. America has huge shale deposits and the gas from these now comprises 25% of its overall gas supplies. In 2001, the figure in this regard was 1%.

The major difficulty with fracking relates to its effect on the environment, particularly in the context of the possible contamination of water supplies. In that context, I propose that all hydraulic fracturing should be declared legal in this country but with the caveat that drilling companies should put up a bond that would be equal in value to the potential clean-up costs relating to environmental damage. This would force large players to be much more careful regarding the extraction techniques they employ, particularly in view of the fact that large mistakes would give rise to huge financial losses. Fracking is very controversial. However, it could be used to create thousands of jobs and pay off our debts. In such circumstances, there is a need for a debate in respect of it. I am afraid that people will reject fracking even before they examine the issues involved. The Earth has survived for billions of years. Industry only came into existence just over 200 years ago. We often pay too much attention to doomsday prophets. The Earth provides us with all of our resources and we should recognise that fact.

Let us give start-up businesses the opportunity to try new things. It might be worth copying what has been done in Britain in this regard.

One of the sectors in respect of which quick action can be taken is tourism. I am a great believer in food tourism. Fáilte Ireland has indicated that people on holidays spend up to five hours eating, whether it is breakfast, dinner or tea. Food influences people to a very large extent. Another aspect of tourism in respect of which action could be taken is that which relates to cycling and walking. I recently read an article regarding the establishment of a walking tour of Hadrian's Wall in Britain approximately ten or 15 years ago. This project cost £3 million to put in place but it gave rise to an income of £30 million.

Another issue in respect of which we might take action is encouraging people to buy local. In this regard, I do not mean just to buy Irish but rather to buy local. There is something magical when it comes to buying local, particularly in the context of food. A recent experience in Drogheda made me aware of the amount of extra business that can be generated by encouraging local restaurants to obtain their food from local producers.

My final point is that the future is bright. Ireland is the only country in Europe with a rapidly increasing population. During the next 20 years our population will increase at a much faster rate than that of any other country in Europe. This represents an opportunity. Let us cut out the pessimism and recognise the opportunities. I have lived through and been in business during four recessions. We should stop thinking in terms of recession and focus instead on the opportunities that lie around the corner.

Senator John Kelly

In the context of job creation and ideas on how we might turn the economy around, the first thing we need is for Ministers to start listening to us. Many Senators contributed to the debate on small business which began last week and which was brought to a conclusion earlier today by the Minister of State at the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Perry. What was said by Senators during that debate was not referred to by the Minister of State during his summation. It is as if we wasted our time making contributions. Many of the Senators present invested a great deal of time and effort in the debate on small business but the Minister of State did not respond to the points we made. That is one the greatest difficulties I have with regard to debates in this House.

During debates in the Seanad, it is often the case that the Minister or Minister of State who is present will take note of points raised or ideas put forward. However, he or she will then leave the House at some point and will be replaced by one of his or her colleagues. As a result, those points put forward early in debates are often not responded to. These are matters which must be addressed. I was not in a position earlier to ask the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, what action he is taking in respect of the questions we posed last week. I was informed that it was not possible to put questions to the Minister of State when he was making his reply. Ministers must begin to listen to Senators because there is no doubt that we have ideas to offer. They might not be great ideas but some of them might actually work.

In the context of the debate in which the House is currently engaged, there is no magic solution to our problems. Apart from creating jobs, the one thing we must do immediately is take steps to protect existing jobs. I have repeatedly informed the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, that there is a need for a national review of rates. Small businesses cannot afford to pay the rates currently expected of them. On a previous occasion the Minister of State and I discussed the fact that blue chip companies have the ability to pay these rates but that small businesses do not. I suggested that a two-tier rate system might be introduced in order that we might retain jobs. It is ridiculous to shut a business down over a rates bill of €4,000 when it will cost €40,000 to keep people on the dole as a result of it. We should consider giving rates holidays to new businesses that are proposing to set up in this country, as long as it does not lead to displacement and unfair competition. If the only hotel in a town closes down, we should help that business to re-establish itself in order to create jobs. The re-opened hotel would not be competing with another hotel in the town. In such circumstances, we should forgo the rates for three years. We would be better off allowing the hotel to create 40 jobs, thereby saving the taxpayer €840,000 a year, rather than leaving the hotel closed for the sake of rates of€40,000.

The section of the report on small business that refers to the local government efficiency review suggests that savings of €511 million could be achieved as a result of the review. As I said to the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, last week, if it referred to €500 million I would probably say it was made up or rounded it off. The reference to €511 million is very specific, however. I have asked where exactly the savings will be made, but I have yet to receive an answer. We need to find out what will be involved in these savings of €511 million. Will they be passed on to small businesses through reduced rates, as recommended in the report?

NAMA is dealing mainly with the property market in the UK. Some 80% of its business is going on over there. I know of auctioneers in this country who have done business with NAMA to buy retail units in rural Ireland. Those deals were done six months ago, in some cases, but the auctioneers are still waiting for NAMA to sign off on them and say they are done. There are people ready to go into those units and set up in business immediately. NAMA does not seem to be bothered about this. Some of these people are walking away and saying "To hell with this, we are not hanging about here any longer if they are not willing to do business with us" because nothing has happened in the last six months. I assure the House that retail units in rural Ireland are not likely to appreciate in value. This is the time to start getting rid of them and creating new business.

We should be expanding the community employment schemes to avail of the massive opportunities provided. The Minister for Health has withdrawn hundreds of thousands of home help hours. I suggest we should use community employment schemes to create many jobs in this area. Each home help hour costs between €14.60 and €18. If this service were provided in the way I suggest, it would cost the taxpayer €1.70 an hour. That would be the actual cost. These people are on social welfare anyway. They would be given a top-up payment of €34 a week for a 20-hour week.

I would like to conclude by repeating a proposal I have made previously. It seems like I will have to say it 20 times before anyone listens to me. I imagine I have said it eight times already in this House. I cannot see why people do not accept the logic of it. If it costs €21,000 a year to keep somebody on social welfare, why are we not offering employers €10,000 to take that person off the dole? If 100,000 people were employed by tourism and other enterprises using that mechanism, some €1.1 billion per annum would be saved immediately. By offering €10,000 to employers in each case, we could save €1.1 billion a year on social welfare. In addition, the employees in question would be paying tax, PRSI, the universal social charge and everything else. If we were to use our social welfare budget wisely, we could make a difference of €2 billion a year. Why are we not doing it? This is the ninth time I have mentioned this proposal. When I have said it 20 times, somebody might cop on.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill

This excellent and non-partisan debate is focusing on one of the key problems this country will have to face if it is to recover, which is the fact that almost 500,000 people are unemployed. No one came in here to play the blame game. I commend the Leader of the House for hosting this debate and giving us an opportunity to make constructive criticisms and propose some ideas with regard to the creation of jobs. There is a wealth of experience in this Chamber. Many Members of the House, including Senators Quinn and White, have experience of creating employment in the State. We welcome the endeavours of individual Senators outside this House. Many unemployed people have no hope and cannot see a way of obtaining a job. Equally, many people are willing to set up businesses but cannot find the resources to do so. They have the ideas but they cannot obtain the resources.

I was not in the Chamber for the Minister of State's speech, but I listened to it from my office. He pointed out that this country's 200,000 small businesses employ 650,000 people. Many of those businesses are struggling at present. I know of a community co-operative in the west of Ireland that has a turnover of €100,000 per week, or €5 million per annum. It employs 40 people and has been in existence for 40 years. The co-operative in question has been dealing with the same bank for 40 years. An overdraft facility of approximately €40,000, or the equivalent in punts, has always been available to it. The Bank of Ireland has refused point blank to continue this overdraft facility even though the co-operative processes €100,000 through its account each year. This country's economy will not recover until we grasp the nettle and take on the banks. If the banks will not play ball with the Government, the Government will have to deal with them by establishing a bank like the Industrial Credit Corporation, which was established in the 1980s to provide currency to those who were creating jobs in the economy.

The credit unions are the only institutions that are lending to small businesses. I know that because I was elected to sit on the board of Údarás na Gaeltachta in a voluntary capacity. We deal with businesses every week that have been approved for State grant aid but cannot get the co-funding that is required from the banks. It is a disgrace that this country's banks, which have been bailed out by taxpayers, are stifling job creation and economic growth. The public interest directors on the boards of those banks need to be hauled before the Government and held to account. If they are not willing to represent the views of the taxpayer, they should be asked to step aside from the boards in order that they can be replaced with people who will actually represent taxpayers and hold the banks to account.

There are a number of ways of dealing with the problem of the lack of availability of credit for small or larger businesses. Very few of the State enterprise organisations — I refer to the county enterprise boards, IDA Ireland, Enterprise Ireland, Shannon Development and Údarás na Gaeltachta, etc. — operate a venture capital programme. I accept that the county enterprise boards operate a scheme whereby money is made available on a loan basis. At a time when the banks are not lending, such a scheme needs to be rolled out across all the enterprise organs of the State. We have all heard about how the banks have made €3 billion available last year and this year. The previous Government was told the same thing. We used to listen to Ministers from my party talking about this matter. Quite frankly, I do not believe what we have been hearing from Ministers in the Government and its predecessor, or from the banks. I do not believe the banks are making money available to businesses. They are telling blatant lies. Without making a political point, I think the Government needs to hold them to account.

The agencies need to be supported. I know of a State agency —Údarás na Gaeltachta — that does not have a chief executive officer at the moment. When I raised the failure to fill that position on the board of Údarás na Gaeltachta in the House yesterday, I was told the position will be filled by the end of the month or early next month. However, I understand that officials from the relevant Department rang Údarás na Gaeltachta late last evening to look for further information. How can a chief executive be appointed if the necessary information is not available to the Department in question?

We have to think outside the box. I agree wholeheartedly with everything Senator Kelly said about the need to create additional jobs through community employment. Every person who is unemployed costs the State €20,000 per annum. We need to stimulate the economy and create jobs in the community sector by giving people money to do jobs in the community. For example, they could cut hedges or perform other tasks for community organisations, thereby creating employment in the community. If small businesses were given the money and freedom to create at least one job each, we could create a couple of hundred thousand jobs. We must think outside the box and eliminate red tape, bureaucracy, report writing and so forth. I hope the relevant Ministers will ignore the civil servants who are advising them and take some business decisions. We can have reports about reports which suggest the problem will be solved in 2014 or 2015 by which time the country may have gone under. Given that more people will become unemployed by 2014, we must radically change the way in which we help businesses. I hope some of the Members of the other House, specifically Ministers, listen to this debate and adopt some of the great suggestions being made by Senators.

Senator Michael Comiskey

I am pleased that the House has prioritised this debate on job creation. I will begin by making a few preliminary points on the Government's national reform programme under the 2020 strategy. Broadly, the report which was submitted to the European Commission on 29 April 2011 deals with employment and research, development and innovation. It forecasts that the economy will grow by 3% per annum on average in the period from 2013 to 2015. The plan has been endorsed by the International Monetary Fund and European authorities.

The most significant challenge for the Government is to nurture jobs growth and sustainable enterprise. Job creation is clearly central to any recovery strategy. In the years ahead sustainable growth will be supported by further competitiveness improvements, continued investment in economic and human capital, measures to ensure adequate credit is available — an issue raised by many Senators — tax policies that are favourable to entrepreneurship and investment and work policies to support growth in key enterprises and productive sectors. We must actively and aggressively challenge existing labour market bottlenecks, for example, weak labour market demand. We must increase access to opportunities for upskilling and target cost-effective activation programmes.

I have two main contributions to make to job creation. I will, first, address the subject of renewable energy, specifically wind energy. As Senators will be aware, Ireland has one of the highest wind speeds in Europe and our ocean currents are among the best in the world for generating renewable energy. This issue was referred to several times by other speakers. A number of test sites are located along the west coast and high-tech facilities are being established to test ocean energy potential. If we are serious about renewable energy projects, we should seek to attract wind turbine construction companies to locate in this country. This would create hundreds of direct and indirect jobs in manufacturing, construction and transportation. The erection of wind turbines will necessitate the employment of electricians and other skilled engineers.

Wind energy is a free and naturally abundant resource, of which we need to take full advantage. Under the European Union renewable energy directive, Ireland must meet a legally binding target of generating 16% of its energy needs using renewable energy resources by 2020. The European Union as a whole has a target of achieving a figure of 25% in the Union's energy mix through renewable resources by 2020.

A recent report compiled by the Irish Wind Energy Association and Deloitte on jobs and investment in the wind energy sector highlighted a number of areas. It focuses on the ability to create investment and jobs and notes that the construction sector provides the majority of job opportunities available from the wind energy sector. Offshore wind development requires significant construction inputs to develop the large-scale wind farm projects planned. The report highlights obstacles to creating employment in the wind energy sector, including grid access, shortages of experienced personnel and a lack of awareness about employment opportunities in the sector. Securing planning permission and objections to planning applications for wind farms are also a serious problem, albeit obstacles that can be overcome. An ongoing public campaign should be launched to promote opportunities connected with wind energy production. This would encourage students, engineers and builders to specialise in the area.

Denmark is the most successful European Union country in wind energy production. In 2007, for example, more than 23,000 people were employed in the wind energy sector in Denmark, whereas fewer than 2,000 people were employed in the sector in this country. As it has been proved that Ireland has higher wind speeds than Denmark, we need to create more jobs in thesector and ensure full grid capacity for renewable energy once it has been generated.

The European Wind Energy Association has found that wind turbine and component manufacturing provides the majority of employment opportunities in the sector, accounting for 59% of direct employment. This is another area in which Irish manufacturing entrepreneurs could become involved. Building and assembling wind turbines would create hundreds of jobs. The Irish Wind Energy Association will hold its annual conference in March and I look forward with interest to examining its most recent policies on job creation.

The second area on which I will briefly focus is the agriculture sector in which many jobs could be created. Increasing the number of organic farming courses would create employment for those who wish to teach such courses to farmers who wish to specialise in organic farming practices. We have an excellent example of such a centre in north County Leitrim, where the Organic Centre teaches organic farming practices to hundreds of students each year.

While the decision to reopen the sea prawn fishing sector for fishermen in Irish waters will create jobs, it is vital that the fish caught in our seas are processed in this country.

Senator Paschal Mooney

I join colleagues on all sides in welcoming the opportunity to feed into the think tank, as it were. I am pleased the Government has acknowledged that the role of the House is sufficiently important to have a debate on ideas for job creation. We could have 150,000 ideas, but if only one of them works, the exercise will have been worthwhile. I will add my tuppence ha'penny worth by focusing on one or two issues.

I am becoming increasingly convinced that we need to refocus and redouble our collective efforts to improve research and development, especially in the sciences. We heard about the loss of branded drugs in the pharmaceuticals sector in the next couple of years. Greater research and development are needed to ensure we continue to generate new medications and drugs. As this is one of Senator John Crown's areas of expertise, I will not dwell on the issue other than to note the need to increase expenditure on research and development across the industrial sector. In that regard, the Fianna Fáil Party has submitted proposals to reduce the taxation burden on business carried out by academic institutions. This would encourage more businesses to outsource their research and development programmes to academic institutions by ensuring they would not be penalised on the basis of tax.

Statistics show that a significant number of jobs are available, notwithstanding the fact that 450,000 people are unemployed. Anyone who attended the briefing provided by the Central Statistics Office yesterday morning will have learned many fascinating statistics pertaining to the past 12 months. The largest single decline in employment in the past three years was in the construction sector. This implies that the decline in employment occurred primarily among those who were unskilled or semi-skilled.

The success of the foreign direct investment policy pursued by successive Administrations for many decades has resulted in a significant number of people finding employment in the pharmaceuticals and high-tech sectors in which jobs are still available. The problem appears to be that graduates leaving our colleges are unable to secure employment in companies in these sectors because they do not have workplace experience. While I welcome the internship programme introduced last year, I wonder if the Government is engaging with industry. Is it sending a message that while it is all very well to provide jobs, if vacancies are being filled by non-nationals coming to the country when Irish nationals could fill these jobs, they are not of any great value. They do not reduce the level of emigration but raise the expectations of young people. There appears to be a disconnect in this regard as highly educated and motivated graduates are unable to get onto the first step of the ladder. Instead, they are moving to England and Australia and many will begin to head off to the United States again if proposed concessions are passed by Congress. There is a brain drain. Is the Government engaging with companies? I believe companies should be more proactive in engaging with Departments, particularly the Department of Social Protection which has all the statistics on those who are unemployed. For example, under the Swedish model, Ericsson, one of the largest companies, has a social responsibility where it engages with the relevant department to retrain and upskill the unemployed. I am not sure there is a culture of Irish business doing that work or of Government thinking outside the box or engaging with business in terms of what it can do to upskill rather than put the entire burden on to the State agencies.

I was intrigued, as one always is, by Senator Quinn's contribution. While I broadly accept his ideas in terms of the financial benefits to Ireland from the extraction of shale gas, as I am sure my colleagues from Sligo-Leitrim will testify it is a highly controversial issue. It is an unproven concept which is the subject of several EU reports. Senator Quinn touched on that briefly in the context of possible damage that might be caused. There is a real danger that hydraulic fracturing, if practised here as in other countries, particularly in America, would result in untold damage to the water courses and would have a severe environmental impact. The view of my party is that we are opposed to the concept of hydraulic fracturing as outlined and presented. Until such time as it is proven to be environmentally safe I would be happy to leave the billions of cubic metres of gas lying below the surface. If it has lain there for several million years, let it lie there for another few years until technology catches up and it can be safely extracted. I agree with Deputy Quinn that the benefits to the country would be significant. If successfully extracted, the north-west shale gas area could supply up to 60% of energy needs and the resulting jobs. He is absolutely right in that regard.

Senator Marie Moloney

Like Senator Mooney and others, I find today's debate informative. If only one or two suggestions made today are acted on the debate will have been worthwhile. I congratulate Senator Mullins who proposed it. I want to speak about removing obstacles that are stifling businesses and job creation. Up to now, businesses have been a huge factor in financing the services being provided by local government. Given that the household charge has been implemented and the refuse collection service has been privatised in many counties, it is time to look at the way in which rates are charged on businesses. Rates are crippling businesses, especially small enterprises. It is time the rates were recalculated on the turnover of the business and not on the premises out of which they operate.

The hotel and guest trade is prevalent in the area from which I come. Many of the hotels are closed for the winter months and when they reopen their business is reduced. Turnover has decreased dramatically due to the downturn in business. In the retail business, such as furniture and electrical stores where the storage space required is huge, there is little turnover. Small retailers who have to pay huge rental costs for their outlets are crippled by rates. Small retailers endeavour to run the business themselves and not take on staff. Sometimes they work up to 16 hours per day and do all the paper work rather than take on staff due to the extra outlay.

It would be a huge step in job creation if we were to revisit the issue of the way in which rates are evaluated. Perhaps, then, business people would consider taking on more staff. As Senator Kelly said, the back to work allowance should be reintroduced. The Department of Social Protection is paying out the money in jobseeker's allowance. Therefore, to invest the money for a number of years, at a graduated rate, thereby increasing employment, would be a step in the right direction. It would help employers for the first year or two, provide a decent wage for the employee, take people off the live register and would allow people to contribute to the economy. Getting cashflow to small and medium enterprises is essential. I commend the Government for starting the ball rolling and emphasise the importance of developing this initiative even further.

On a number of occasions, I have raised the issue of the self-employed with the Minister for Social Protection. Self-employed persons should be given the option of paying the full rate PRSI contribution and if they have a couple of weeks with no work they can draw their social welfare entitlements. Self-employed people who take on employees pay a generous contribution towards the employee's entitlements, they pay taxes and if they have premises they have to pay rates and, in some cases, rent on their premises, yet during a downturn in the business they have nothing to fall back on. If there are a few months when there is no business and they cannot access social welfare entitlements, they are inclined to close down the business completely and they have an entitlement. When the business picks up again, their company is gone and they cannot restart it. Sometimes what these people need is a little help to tide them over a few weeks or months when things are bad.

A colleague, the Mayor of Killarney, has an innovative idea. He stated that all over the country there are closed premises and factories, such as the Pretty Polly premises in Killarney. He suggested that education will play a vital role in getting the country back on its feet and bringing about economic recovery. He suggests that these premises, or part thereof, be used for the purpose of education through the medium of satellite. Obviously there would be a start-up cost but it could be cost neutral as third level grants would no longer be needed if people were to use this medium. Many students, even with the aid of third level grants, find the cost of education and living away from home very expensive and tend to drop out. They could stay in their home town and get their education. This type of education would be an opportunity for rural Ireland to compete for high tech jobs as the skills would be in place.

An issue that has not been mentioned so far is the roll out of broadband. I am aware the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, is proactive in this area but there are parts of rural Ireland, such as in south Kerry, where people are trying to set up a business in photography, agriculture and so on but broadband is not available and they are crippled. They cannot run their business without broadband. Some areas do not have a mobile phone signal, not to mention broadband.

We must utilise our partnerships because they have their finger on the pulse and know the people who have ideas. The partnerships and the county enterprise boards are the first port of call for any person with an idea to get help and advice. They would be instrumental in negotiating with the banks for loans for the people concerned.

Senator Martin Conway

I commend Senator Mullins for what has become known as the Mullins initiative. I applaud the cross-party approach to this topic. We are responsible to the electorate who put us here, whether Government, Opposition or non-party. We all have a mandate and a role to play. Many in this Chamber have created jobs over the years. I commend all people who create jobs because they are the backbone of the economy.

Much has been said and I will not repeat what has been said. Repetition is not necessary, but I will comment on a number of areas. I have spoken before about the tendering process in respect of the Government. The Government does not directly create jobs, but it certainly has a role to play in making it easier to create jobs and to assist in the elimination of red tape.

I have often said in this House that we are very compliant Europeans. Environmental health compliance of the hospitality industry in Italy, France, Spain and elsewhere is not as onerous as it is in Ireland, yet the figure for those who suffer food poisoning in these countries is much lower than Ireland. One has to wonder about the logic of that.

Any tenders put out by local government or State agencies that are worth above €50,000 have to go through e-tenders. That is ridiculous and I do not believe it is reflected throughout Europe. If the Government multiplies that figure by ten, it would reduce the red tape and the time period, and it would facilitate Irish companies going for reasonable jobs. A window manufacturer in Kerry recently could not get a contract for a building which was only up the road, and it went to a foreign company. That window manufacturer was employing 1,200 people in Kerry. That did not make sense at all. That is why we must loosen up the red tape.

For years the agriculture sector was the backbone of the economy. It will be the backbone of the economic recovery this country will see. We can export our product and our intellectual property to billions of people. I was abroad recently and it was great to see Dairygold butter handed up at the breakfast table in an international hotel far away from here. It is unrealistic to think that we can export beef from Ireland to China, but we certainly can export our knowledge in developing farming which makes our beef so popular internationally. The Chinese are leaving their traditional food products by the million and embracing European food products, particularly Irish food products. There is no reason we cannot develop our skill set in the dairy industry and the breeding of beef, lamb and so on. We can teach people in Asia how to produce our quality product and get a percentage for it. There is a range of ways to bring our knowledge to other countries.

The English language market is at 10% of its potential here. We are known traditionally as the land of saints and scholars, so there is no reason we cannot attract thousands of international students over here; not just to learn English, but to learn art, music and culture. The Burren College of Art is in my area of north Clare and it brings in hundreds of American students every year. There is no reason every area cannot have similar colleges; not just in the humanities, but in commerces, languages and so on. The Government needs to introduce initiatives to attract people to learn English as a foreign language here.

I have spoken several times on the Order of Business about the Seven Wonders of Nature competition, which the Cliffs of Moher did not ultimately win. However, the number of visitors to the Cliffs of Moher rose by 25% for the second half of 2011. That is the benefit and it has sustained jobs and will create more casual jobs in the tourism industry.

Tourism, agriculture and education are three key areas, along with the arts and others. We need to look outside the box. We need to promote indigenous industry. It is great to have the likes of Intel coming in here and creating 2,000 jobs, but as we saw with TalkTalk, they can go as well as come. Indigenous Irish companies will stay forever and create jobs if we get it right.

Senator Susan O’Keeffe

I join other speakers in commending Senator Mullins for this initiative. I am sure he will not mind if I ask for the idea to be extended so that we might do this on a routine basis, perhaps every two to three months. Not only do Senators have wonderful entrepreneurial ideas and ideas for making the business of business move more easily, but we talk to many people and they are constantly bringing ideas to us. It would be great if we were to say that the Seanad was a House that fostered that entrepreneurial spirit and fed into the Department as a routine part of our business. Even though it is not on the Order of Business, I ask the Leader if this can be facilitated.

I would like to start by reading a small extract from a book called Traditional Food Skills for Tomorrow.

With regard to the pig's head... there were two options for its use. Scrubbed clean and boiled for several hours in a pot with onions and cloves, the head was picked over for whatever morsels of meat could be plucked from the skull. A more sophisticated, but less mainstream approach was to make the delicacy "brawn". After boiling and salvaging, the meat would be minced and mixed with herbs and spices...

This publication represents much of what I would like to talk about, which is our food heritage. The book's subtitle is called "Food Heritage in Living Memory". We have an enormous amount of food heritage. Our grandparents would laugh at this book. For them, boiling a pig's head and salvaging something from it was poverty food, but now it is considered to be a delicacy. If that is the case, the world changes and changes again and now we celebrate goose blood fried with mushroom or lobster and egg platter as delicacies, even though this was the food of our poorer ancestors. Let us seize the moment and say that these are the things that can make an industry into the future. We must look at those opportunities.

I know that there are many food festivals in Ireland and that they contribute to tourism and to local business. We have the Só Food Festival in Sligo, which managed to put Irish stew at its heart. This year it will be held in May. The Waterford Harvest Food Festival this year will run for a full six days and will attract foodies from all over Ireland and the world. Many organisations in Ireland support traditional food, including Slow Food Ireland, as there are people who go to the bother of preserving individual seeds and the varieties of apples and potatoes. These are people who care about the very small things which will in future be very valuable to us.

It is worth acknowledging that the vision of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine for the food industry in Ireland — Food Harvest 2020 — recognises this artisan food sector and acknowledges its growth and its renewed interest for the consumer. The Department, along with Bord Bia and Teagasc, stated that they will work together to promote and broaden opportunities, including local markets for consumers and visiting tourists to purchase local food. They will work together to conserve and to promote distinctive local food traditions like the pig's head and so on. They will do that along with the TASTE Council and Slow Food Ireland.

We have the foods. We have the traditions. We have the will. We have the organisations. We now need to bundle them together in a much more cohesive fashion and we also need to involve farmers directly. There is nothing wrong with having a full food artisan sector for the benefits it can bring, but how can we bind that back to farmers? When I was a child, farmhouse holidays were quite popular. They are not so attractive any more. I examined what was happening in other countries, and found that India, a country which has much in common with ours, is praising the value of farming and considers it as having real potential for future tourism. Some of the reasons match ours directly, such as the nostalgia for our farming roots and the notion of rural recreation, although I must point out that this includes things such as camel riding and bullock cart riding, which I do not quite see happening here. In India they also talk about the interest that we now have in the natural environment, the disillusionment with overcrowded resorts and cities, the educational value of agri-tourism, the desire for peace and tranquility and the demand for cheaper, family-based holidays. These are all ideas that come from India, but they are true in Ireland also. In the future, when organisations come together to promote such things as artisan food or food trails such as those in California, South Africa and England, where they pertain to cheese and wine, we should do that too, and to leave the farmer out would be folly.

This is being promoted not only in India but in Norway, a country we do not hear much about. The symbol of the rural food and tourism association, the cockerel, demonstrates that Norwegian tourism is linked to nature and rural living. As other Senators have said, the agriculture industry is the backbone of Ireland — in fact, it is our front bone as well. In the future we will go back to being a predominantly agricultural country. I would like to see us building ideas that would add farms and farmers to the tourism package, so that we can make this a country to which people come to look for farming culture, along with artisan food, and to enjoy it.

Senator Mary Ann O’Brien

I praise Senator O'Keeffe's wonderful comments about food and artisan food. The advantage Ireland has is that we get out of bed in the morning and we do not have to do anything; the whole world thinks we are green. We are known as the Emerald Isle. One cannot actually put into words the way the rest of the world looks at us. We are so fortunate because Norway, India, Finland — whatever country one thinks of in the world — had to work so hard to get their reputations for salmon or, in the case of Finland, saunas, but we already have it.

I thank Senator Mullins for creating this opportunity for us to have this debate. I would have loved, although it might not have been appropriate in this beautiful Chamber, to have somebody from the Michael Smurfit Graduate Business School at the top of the room facilitating us with a flipchart and then handing the Seanad the top 50 ideas we came up with this afternoon. That is probably what the Minister would like. There are some great ideas coming up here, but next time we might use the word "think tank" instead of "debate". As Senator O'Keeffe said, we are only 60 people, but there are many people feeding us great ideas. Therefore, if we can be the conduit, the Seanad can become much more relevant in that way. I know some of the people at the Smurfit Business School and they would be only delighted to help or facilitate us. That is just a small idea.

Much has been said today — I could make the excuse that almost everything I was going to say has been said — but I will run quickly over my worries about the job prevention measures the Government is instituting. I will not go into any detail because I did so last Wednesday when the Minister of State at the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Perry, was here. Senators all know about the banks, and I am dying to read the report that the Minister of State mentioned we should all read, in which there were to be all these wonderful statistics proving that the banks were lending. Well, all my friends must be liars. Senator Moloney's son got a little loan, as have some others, but I am certainly not one of those people. I am doing fine, but I had to get private loans, and Enterprise Ireland helped me out. I certainly did not get loans from the bank. Poor Ulster Bank had to let people go recently; well, hopefully it will not be able to send three or four people to every meeting it has with me when one would suffice.

I stood up in October to talk about the sick pay scheme that the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, presented to us. We must not let her get that through, because it would destroy a business like mine, which has 100 people, and imagine what it would do to a business with five or six people. It is unaffordable for the private sector. Local authority charges are a difficult issue. I sit on Kildare County Council audit committee, and we are suffering because companies are going out of business and we are not collecting charges. We will have to make a reduction and take the burden off businesses.

With regard to red tape, I had Senators laughing last week about the shop owner in Cavan who needs 70 licences to keep his shop open. That is a no-brainer. One of the Senators said earlier that we need to come up with a strategy to quickly get rid of some of the red tape and regulations, so that entrepreneurs can get into business and those already in it can have time to think clearly and come up with innovations. People should not have to spend their whole lives in the human resources section worrying about labour laws or all the other regulations that exist — I know of many in the food industry, anyway. I can only imagine what it takes to run a hospital; I do not know how one could even open the doors.

I am only touching on a few of the negatives. Another is the agency workers directive which was transposed before Christmas. It is another one we just let slip in here from Europe. I love Europe, but it slipped this one in under the net, as far as I am concerned. We should not have let it slip in. I am having a good year so far — I think I have scored a big American order for the company for August — but my labour will cost me at least 20% more because of this directive. I will not go into details; if anyone wants to talk to me about it afterwards, I will bore them to tears. It is another job prevention scheme that was allowed to slip in. I am scared to take anyone on now because, as happened in 2008, if something goes wrong that is out of my control — for example, if the cocoa market goes through the roof or the dollar or sterling goes crazy — I could have got 65% relief if I made somebody redundant, and now I cannot. This is a mistake.

Earlier, a Senator — I think it was Senator Bacik — talked about another country and the employment subsidy scheme that came in under Fianna Fáil in 2008. It was only there for a year and then it was gone. That was for companies, and there are many of us out there that have had to put people on a three-day week. That should be brought back; it is a no-brainer. Which Senator talked earlier about €10,000 being given to an employer to take on staff? That is a no-brainer. Let us take tourism as an example.

On tourism, I ask Senator Mullins whether we can have another think tank. We have a diaspora of 70 million people. Imagine if we could get 500,000 of us to invite some of those people over here next summer. Imagine if we could innovate for the Irish tourism sector, in the form of Bord Fáilte, by thinking up some really fantastic ways to get more tourists in here.

How can we get NAMA under control? I love the fact that there are hotel rooms for €69 per night, but some of my friends are suffering because of this. I know I am not supposed to give names, but let us say that Rathsallagh House is almost closed because there are NAMA hotels all around it. It cannot operate for €59 per night. We need to control that. Here is another interesting thing. I am in the horse industry on the side. There is no recession in the horse industry. In fact, I will tell my fellow Senators this much: there is no drop in the luxury industry. If one goes over to London and down Bond Street one will see so many multi-millionaires. Let us keep an eye on the luxury end over here as well; we seem to have lost sight of that, but there is still money in the world and we still want to attract it.

Our motorways must be a tourist attraction because there is hardly anybody on them. We must be one of the most fabulous countries in the world to drive around because we have beautiful motorways and there are very few people on them. My first idea ever in the Seanad was for wooden signs. If we are going to pay €10,000 to employ a person, could we not look at Adare, Kinsale or Kenmare and make an Ireland that the Americans think still exists? Can we not take away plastic signs?

I will make one more point. I know there are a few credit unions in trouble, but let us face it: the banks are not doing what they say they are doing. One may go to the small business lunches and speeches and there will be a fellow from Allied Irish Banks sponsoring the whole lunch telling us wonderful things but I do not believe them. The banks are not doing what they say they are doing. A brilliant idea would be to regulate and think about how we could help the credit unions and stabilise them. It would not require a great deal of money. One is not looking for €10 billion but perhaps €1 billion. We should put in place some brilliant entrepreneur and take it county by county so that the credit unions could give small loans to small businesses. The Minister of State, Deputy Perry, tells me he is trialing something like this in Kilkenny. I think we should follow up on that and see how it goes. The larger banks send everything to the head offices in Dublin.

With regard to the Jack & Jill Children's Foundation, will the Government please give us children between five and six years to mind and give us some help because we employ 1,017 people but we only mind children up to the age of four years? We have raised €35 million privately so far. If one gave me children between five and six years to mind, we would employ another third of that number of people. If the Jack & Jill Children's Foundation did not exist it would cost €47 million per year to nurse these children in hospitals. It is another no-brainer. I am sorry, but I am running out of time. I thank Senator Mullins.

Senator Kathryn Reilly

It is rather difficult to follow that contribution but I will try. Ireland's economy remains adolescent in many ways. I mean that we do not yet have a fully developed domestic sector that can drive growth independent of the global economy. I was in University College Cork yesterday, home to the Centre for Co-operative Studies. I realise other Senators have referred to co-operatives. This year, 2012, is the international year for co-operatives. I will focus on co-operatives as a vehicle for job creation in future. Their potential has not been fully realised or utilised in Ireland especially in respect of the social economy because of the lack of visibility and the lack of understanding of the sector.

Co-operatives create and maintain employment and provide income. They are socially conscious, responding to the needs of their members. They are rooted in their communities. They offer jobs to local people. They are more stable employers because their members are in the community where they are located. They are less likely to relocate to lower wage areas and are likely to find innovative ways to retain employment and remain competitive. They create wealth within the community and local ownership keeps it there. Co-operatives provide stability and services in areas deemed not profitable for private enterprise.

The co-operative model can be applied to any business activity. Co-operatives exist in traditional economic sectors such as agriculture, fisheries, consumer and financial services, housing and production. However, they also span a diverse number of sectors including child care, health and social care, schools, tourism, utilities and sport.

I refer to some global statistics and experiences relating to co-operatives. More than 800 million people are members of co-operatives. Some 123 million members of co-operatives own 160,000 co-operative enterprises and give jobs to 5.4 million European citizens. Co-operatives provide 100 million jobs worldwide, up to 20% more than multinational enterprises. In 1994, the livelihood of almost 3 billion people was made secure by co-operative enterprise. A total of 183 co-operative enterprises, some 152,000 co-operative members and 18,869 co-operative employees are currently in Europe.

In Argentina, a country that suffered a huge financial crisis in 2001 with devaluation of the currency and widespread unemployment, there are currently 12,670 co-operative societies with more than 9.3 million members, approximately 23% of the population. Since 2001, more than 200 failing businesses became occupied by their workers and reopened as worker co-operatives and none of these has gone out of business. They employ more than 15,000 people.

The impact of co-operatives in providing income to rural populations creates additional employment through multiplier effects, including enabling other rural enterprises to grow and, in turn, to provide local jobs. They are a way of bucking the trend of international capitalist development through local action to restructure the economy in the interests of people. It can be viewed as a grassroots response to changing social and economic consequences associated with the forces of globalisation and policies such as privatisation.

The International Organisation of Industrial, Artisanal and Service Producers' Co-operatives has found that worker and social co-operatives are more resilient in weathering the crisis than conventional enterprises active in the same sector as a result of their co-operative nature. Employment in co-operatives tends to be more stable because members are located in the community. Ownership and participation make a real difference because co-operatives are formed in a community to serve its needs and they are less likely to relocate to lower wage jurisdictions. Under adverse economic conditions when employment opportunities are scarce and incomes are falling, they are better suited to facilitate economic recovery because the conflict of interest between worker and owner is abolished, as is the profit-driven behaviour which facilitates mass unemployment in times of downturn.

Since 1975, approximately 80% of the worker co-operatives in maritime Canada have been located in rural communities where unemployment rates have tended to be chronically high. We should consider the example of Canada and what co-operatives could do in such places as Donegal where they have barely seen the tail of the Celtic tiger. There is vast potential for it.

I will finish with some points on what we can do to promote the co-operative model in our society and the economy in its current state. We should explicitly acknowledge the co-operative model in legislation. This could be achieved by defining co-operatives within certain legislation, as has been done under the European co-operative statute. This should be brought forward as a matter of priority. In 2012, the international year of co-operatives, the Government should implement the recommendations of the International Labour Organization, ILO, resolution 193 on the promotion of co-operatives, especially those relating to the establishment of an institutional framework for co-operatives for the purposes of allowing for the registration of co-operatives in as rapid, simple, affordable and efficient a manner as possible; for the purposes of the introduction of support measures for the activities of co-operatives that meet specific social and public policy needs, including tax benefits, loans, grants, access to public works projects and special procurement provisions; and for the purposes of the simplification of administrative procedures.

Senator Terry Brennan

I cannot believe it. Chuir mé mo lámh suas ar cúig nóiméad tar éis a dó. Anyway, I will do what I can. Go raibh maith agat a Chathaoirligh. It is a pity for me but I will instance the case because examples are a great way of demonstrating the point one is trying to make. We have all referred to indigenous industries. They represent the future. Many of these involve people who started in their own kitchens or garages some years ago, perhaps without planning permission in many cases. However, I would not close them down because of that. Some involved two people working who wish to take the next step and seek more space. I do not believe we are providing the next step for these entrepreneurs. I can instance five small or medium-sized industries in my region which had to go north to get the space they required. Unfortunately, that was the way of it for the five of them. The Senator on my left employs many more people but these firms employ in the region of 50 men and women. I would prefer to have seen these people working in my county or country.

Enterprise boards have done and continue to do their best. They do not blow their own trumpets. They have helped, initiated and encouraged many small industries that I am aware of. They have made a major contribution to the development of jobs and this is a great thing.

I referred to the need for space. In a county close to me, County Meath, there are two or three examples of what should be in every county in the country. I will go into that in more detail. Last week the young scientist of the year was announced. Examples of entrepreneurship were displayed by Irish teenagers and it is an absolute credit to them. There is an entrepreneurial vein in each and every one of us. It has been developed in some of us, which is great to see.

Like Senator White, I agree that there are major opportunities for small Irish industries overseas in places like Japan, China, South Korea, Taiwan, South America, Brazil and Paraguay. I spoke to a young Irish man about a fortnight ago. He is well educated and was part of the brain drain. He went to the United States and developed his idea. He has a small company which manufactures in China and there is a large market in the United States for its product. He is now in Paraguay and utilises two small Irish companies in the course of his business. I hope he is helping to sustain jobs in Ireland.

On the need to educate people in Chinese or Japanese, this man's business was based in the United States but has been developed in the Far East. I concur with Senator White that there is a need for languages. I asked the man at Christmas if the language issue deterred his business or was an obstacle and was pleasantly surprised to hear it was not. Any of his employees who travel to China, Japan and Paraguay have no great difficulty because most countries speak English and children learn it in school. It is not a major issue but I would like to see languages taught in our schools.

Senator Quinn sat beside me and four or five others having lunch fadó, fadó— I was not a Senator at the time — when a man came in clapping his hands and told him he would not like what he was going to tell him. It is a pity the Senator is not here to hear the story. May I name a company in Dundalk?

Acting Chairman (Senator Michael Mullins)

Yes.

Senator Terry Brennan

Ben Dunne was coming to Dundalk. Senator Quinn had established his very good business in Dundalk and now heard his opposition was coming to a vibrant town. I will never forget his attitude. There was a vacant premises next door to his and his main concern was that Ben Dunne would take it. That is not the business attitude of today. I have never forgotten that incident and some of the Senator's ideas today are as meritorious.

We should have these meetings more often. I congratulate the Leader on having this session. I would like to hear more stories about small industries in our area that are doing well. That will encourage people.

I refer to import substitution. I know of a husband and wife with three children at university and it was not easy for them, as one can imagine. He was a golfer and looked at golfing items coming into the country from England. He asked his wife how long it would take her to make flags and she said she could make a set per night at half the cost of those being imported. She started a small business and the husband and son became involved. They sold flags to most golf clubs in the country.

In our own way we are all entrepreneurs. We need to get ideas across. I would like to see more positivity, even in these difficult times. What is the next step? I do not want to hear a talking shop.

Acting Chairman (Senator Michael Mullins)

We will get the Leader to articulate that at the end of the debate.

Senator Cáit Keane

I welcome the debate. I will not repeat today what I said during the last debate. Like Senator Brennan, I would like to know what the next step will be. Whoever is co-ordinating the two debates should take the spirit of what was said in the previous debate and include it with this debate.

We have been asked to come up with suggestions. I mentioned high potential start-ups during the last debate but the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, did not respond today, which I take particular note of. He said he would revert to me on the issue. I would like information on high potential start-ups and the criteria used to define same. Perhaps a second leg could be added to the criteria to make it easier for companies that employ between five and ten people.

As the issue of rates has been talked to death, I will not dwell on it. I refer to access to public procurement for small businesses. The Office of Public Works and the Minister of State, Deputy Hayes, made some changes recently. They should be publicised to try to make it easier for small businesses. We should all be made aware of them and the information should be conveyed to small businesses and enterprise boards. It has not been publicised and there is much more to do on the issue.

I had a question and answer session with about five small business owners and asked them if they knew what was announced recently by the Government to help them export into or initiate business in the BRIC countries. We all know those countries are growing and that is where the money will be. Not one of the five I asked knew anything about it. We have a job of publicity to do on the positive things we are doing and on educating the directors of companies.

I was listening to the debate in my office and heard Senator Michael Comiskey mention wind energy. I will say no more about it, except that it is a huge area and we must concentrate on it.

I recently raised the interpretation, scrutiny and implementation of EU legislation by Ireland, compared with other EU countries. The Leader has said the Seanad is a place where such scrutiny could be carried out. That is a bigger story. However, small businesses cannot wait until tomorrow. Senator Mary Ann O'Brien mentioned the agency workers directive which should not have been put through, or should have been put through in a different fashion.

Senator O'Brien is a social entrepreneur. She said she could grow her business if it could look after children aged five and six. I will rephrase what Senator O'Brien said in case it might be taken out of context, because Members of the Oireachtas are supposed to declare a conflict of interest. I would ask the Minister to look at the social entrepreneurs throughout the country, particularly the Jack and Jill Children's Foundation which could employ more people if the age limit of the children it looks after were increased to five or six.

No Member has mentioned the elephant in the corner. The high replacement ratio between social welfare and net pay for employment weakens the incentive to return to the labour force. There is a major challenge to protect those on low incomes and social welfare benefits while ensuring that incentives to return to the labour market are strengthened and that businesses are incentivised to take on additional staff. This is a matter for the Minister for Social Protection.

Regulation influences the manner in which the private sector can adjust to market forces. Therefore, no professional body should be allowed to restrict the number of entrants into its profession, be it legal or medical. A variety of pro-competition mechanisms should be used instead of the traditional restrictive rules. Senator Brennan mentioned the attitude of Senator Feargal Quinn, which is most welcome. Anti-competitive practices keep prices artificially high. The Government must ensure that competition policy facilitates market operation. Good competition policy must work in tandem with strong regulation in economic, social and environmental policy.

Departments should consider and respond in a timely manner to the recommendations in the 2011 report of the National Competitiveness Council, with specific timelines laid down for the consideration and implementation of such recommendations as the Government considers appropriate. The Department of Jobs, Innovation and Enterprise should co-ordinate the responses from the various Departments to the recommendations in the report. The report contained many good recommendations that would aid competitiveness.

The State, as one of the largest consumers of legal services in the economy, should ensure that legal services are subject to the same competition as other services procured by the Government. Services should be procured in accordance with the guidelines set out in the national procurement policy, requiring prospective service providers to compete with one another on the basis of cost and quality. This morning, we heard of the enormous fees paid for the Mahon tribunal and on free legal aid. However, the legal profession are not the only people tendering for Government contracts. This should be looked at. Competition should be based on cost and quality, and a report on competitiveness is necessary.

Could the Leader provide for a follow-up to this debate? We would like answers. There is no point in talking hot air.

Senator Colm Burke

I recently spoke to someone who decided to set up a new business seven months ago but will not be up and running until next week. One of this person's problems was the lack of co-ordination between State services in facilitating the business being set up. This is particularly true of local authorities. Certain types of new business might be dealing with a number of different departments within a local authority. There needs to be more co-operation within local authorities.

There is a lack of mentoring within the banking sector. We all talk about providing mentors and helping people who want to start up new businesses. When the Agricultural Credit Corporation was set up it employed agricultural advisers to help farmers to grow and expand their businesses. The banking sector seems to have moved away from that over the past 20 years. It is now about giving out money, and the next step is to get it back in. In the meantime, no advice is given to businesses by the banking sector. I can give a example of this. A number of years ago a German company had come into Ireland, started working and had spent about €750,000 on a project, to find they had nothing signed in writing. They had opened a bank account and employed accountants but they had not employed a legal team. As a solicitor, I was asked to come on board to assist them to get out of their difficulties. When one has spent that sort of money it is far harder to negotiate with the other side. I remember collecting a cheque on Christmas Eve of that year for €1 million, because that is what was owed to them. After Christmas I asked how they had got themselves involved in this. They said that when they came in to Ireland they were told to take everyone at their word. It was sad that they could open a bank account and no one in the bank advised them to ensure they had all the t's crossed and the i's dotted before they did anything. That is what I mean by mentoring. Banks open accounts and give out money but they do not get involved in giving the advice that many new companies need. This is something we should try to get the banking sector back into.

Senator Higgins raised a good point last week when she said bank officials need to be trained in how to approach people with large debts and how to deal with debt collection. Likewise, the banking sector needs to help businesses, not alone in providing funding but in giving back-up support. It is in a bank's interest that a company would succeed, be profitable and be able to employ people.

In Ireland, we lack co-ordination between third level institutions, research and private enterprise. When I was Lord Mayor of Cork, I had the privilege of going to China, where various institutions are built alongside each other in order that there is a connection between all three sectors. That is missing in Ireland.

Several years ago, an Irish third level institution told me how it was prepared to provide research back-up for companies. It was not looking for payment but took 10% of the company's profit for five a period of five years. That might seem severe, but there was a plus for everyone. The company did not have to pay up front for research to be carried out. There is not enough co-ordination in that area. We need to bring third level research facilities and companies together. This needs to be developed if we are to grow jobs.

An earlier speaker referred to money being available. There is a good deal of money about, but people are afraid to invest. Last week I spoke to a person who was considering spending €600,000 on a commercial property. When I advised this individual to consider investing in job creation, the immediate response was that bricks and mortar were more secure. I am not sure why that view still holds in this day and age. Unfortunately, there is a certain perception that investing in job creation is too risky, with too many ifs and buts, and the building sector remains the choice of investment for many. We need to effect a change of attitude in order to encourage those who have money to invest it in initiatives which will create jobs for the next generation coming out of third level institutions. One way of doing this is by examining how the business expansion scheme could be developed. Some years ago there was an enormous take-up of the SSIA savings scheme because of the incentive to participate. There is no reason we cannot do something similar to encourage investment in job creation. If we put our heads together, we can come up with innovative ideas in this regard.

I thank the Leader and the Acting Chairman for facilitating this debate and Members for their constructive proposals. This debate represents a welcome initiative for the House and a useful pointer for how we can focus our efforts on finding ways out of our economic difficulties.

Senator Tony Mulcahy

I have listened with interest to colleagues' contributions to this debate. Senator Terry Brennan hit the nail on the head when he referred to import substitution. An important step in this regard would be to identify the top 100 items we import in order to see whether some of them could be produced at home. Perhaps we cannot make cars, but we should certainly be able to produce at least some of the products currently being brought in from other countries.

I recently put a proposal to the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, that we draw up profiles of ten industrialised areas throughout the country. These might include the Leader's city of Waterford, Cork, Dublin, my own town of Shannon where we have up to 10,000 employees in a variety of industries, Galway and so on. This work could be undertaken by one or more of the various agencies, of which there is no shortage. They should examine what is happening in these areas, what they are producing, what their output is, whether it be light industry, heavy industry, agricultural, pharmaceuticals and so on.

Taking Shannon as an example, there has been a sea change in the industrial estate in the past two years, where a good deal of light industry has moved back in. Before that, light industry had effectively moved to China and Taiwan. EI Electronics, for example, which manufactures smoke alarms and carbon monoxide detectors, employs up to 300 people and recently recruited an additional 40. Molex which produces connectors for telephone chargers is an American company employing up to 600 people. A new company in the estate, Bolger Engineering, manufactures items for Caterpillar machines.

It would be interesting to profile the cost of production in the State. It has certainly dropped significantly in recent years as wages have declined. We have a high quality employee in this country who is ready and able for work. As I said, profiles should be compiled of the ten chosen industrial areas and a report produced within one month. Enterprise Ireland, IDA Ireland, Shannon Development and the county enterprise boards all have the capability to compile this information which should be cross-referenced against the top 100 imports in order to see whether there is scope to produce some of these products at home. What is vital is that we receive an answer in one month; there is no point in talking about this all day if there is no follow up.

Another issue I wish to raise is that of food production, in which I was involved back in 1978 when I sought to get into the production of paté. Unfortunately, I took the advice of a guy from Shannon Development at the time which I should not have taken. I would probably be very well off today if I had not heeded that advice. I might have the figures wrong, but, as I recall, paté imports into the State in 1979 were valued at IR£1.8 million. Being a chef by trade, I had come up with a very good product. I was interested in investing in a blister pack machine which produces the plastic packaging in which one sees rashers and sausages today. However, I was advised that this would be an unwise investment and that the cost of the machine, at more than IR£100,000, was prohibitive. Within five years paté imports into the country were running at IR£7 million and Horgan's Delicatessen Supplies which went on to be a tremendous success story had been set up. It goes to show that one should persist with a good investment idea, even when one experiences a put-down. I did eventually open my own business, rightly or wrongly, four years later.

There is great potential to develop our organic product market. As I have said to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney, we produce the best organic food in the world and can boast some of the best salmon and sea farming. The follow on should be the development all along the coast of research and development kitchens which are currently operating only in colleges. My brother trains chefs in one of the institutes of technology and is a member of the Panel of Chefs of Ireland. There should be an interlinking between the Panel of Chefs of Ireland, the chef training colleges and UCC, with the latter providing the food science backup and doing all the labelling — the content per 100 millilitres or 100 g, the shelf life of the product and so on. I have spoken to people who are producing little bottles of sauces or jars of jam but cannot afford to take it to the next step, that is, the food science side, labelling the product and getting it on the shelf. There must be greater connectivity and co-ordination. We have the kitchens, the chefs and the products, but we must interlink them.

We must be honest in acknowledging that many of the agencies got fat and lazy in recent years. We all got lazy in the last 20 years and relied on the fellow coming off the aeroplane from America to create jobs. We became accustomed to a situation where 70% of jobs in the State were created through foreign direct investment. Now, however, we must do more for ourselves and there is no question or doubt in my mind that we can do so.

It is important that we meet again in one month or six weeks to take this debate to the next step and assess where we are at. We need to know what people are doing. There is a notion abroad that all the jobs will be in cloud computing and companies such as Google. While such jobs are very welcome, it is important to recognise that there is also a great deal of manufacturing going on. What businesses need is a little assistance and advice to get them to the market. Enterprise Ireland contacted people last year, when instructed by the Minister to do so, making one call to employers in my area. However, there is little engagement on the part of Enterprise Ireland, IDA Ireland, Shannon Development and all the other agencies once they hand over the initial grant. Unfortunately, in recent years the next call was often to discuss the closure of a business. That connection must be quickly re-established. We can grow a great number of indigenous industries by ensuring more effective engagement by the agencies.

Senator Maurice Cummins

In order to allow me time to sum up, I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that this debate conclude not later than 5.10 p.m.

Acting Chairman (Senator Michael Mullins)

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Senator Maurice Cummins

We in this House have been critical on many occasions of the format for the Order of Business, but this debate is the outcome of a good suggestion made by Senator Michael Mullins on the Order of Business that we have a brainstorming session, a think tank or whatever one wishes to call it, on the issue of job creation. We have had wonderful suggestions from Members, but I agree that it should not stop at that. We must convey these ideas to the Minister and the people involved. I have already asked the leaders of the various groups to send bullet point suggestions made by the members of their groups to my office. I am proposing that these suggestions be put together in the form of a book and presented to the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, and the Minister of State, Deputy John Perry. That book might then be presented to the Department's advisory committee on job creation, after which we could ask the Minister to come and respond to the suggestions made.

One speaker mentioned the Young Scientist and Technology Exhibition. We can only hope officials from Enterprise Ireland visited each of the stands and spoke to the exhibitors about their business ideas. Tremendous ideas are being put forward by young people, in whose hands the future rests. I am sure we are already tapping into that resource but if we are not, then we are guilty of a major error.

Senator Mary Ann O'Brien stated that initiatives are required in respect of tourism. A major initiative, The Gathering, is due to be announced in the coming weeks. A Minister will be coming before the House to discuss that matter. Initiatives designed to attract more tourists are being put in place.

I wish to make a couple of points. Animation and graphics is an area in respect of which there is great potential for expansion. I heard a radio interview with two young people who established a business in Dublin and who recently won a contract to produce an animation series for the Disney Channel. They were asked whether anyone from Enterprise Ireland or any other agency had contacted them to discover what they did in order to succeed and replied that they had not been contacted. We must learn from businesses which are succeeding and focus on areas in which there is potential to increase investment and create further employment. We must listen to those already involved in the area of animation and graphics in order that we might create jobs.

Senator O'Donovan referred to mariculture, aquaculture and fish farming on the Order of Business some time ago. There is potential for expansion and job creation in these areas. The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine is due to come before the House next week. On a previous occasion on which he addressed the House, he referred to the demand that exists for fish and fish products. We cannot keep up with that demand and there is a need to expand the level of activity in the areas of fish farming and fish processing. In many places fish is actually being sold without being processed. In view of the increased quotas we achieved recently — following the best negotiating process in which we have engaged in many years — we should exploit the potential that exists. In that context, we should not sell all the fish that are caught here immediately but rather they should first be processed. There are opportunities for development in this area.

Many Senators referred to food production. We should shout from the rooftops with regard to the quality and traceability of food produced in this country. There is tremendous export potential in this area. Senator Quinn referred to the fact that one in five children in Asia is fed on infant formula milk produced in this country. When milk quotas are removed, it will be possible to produce more milk and farmers will be in a position to expand their operations. This is a matter to which we should be giving consideration now rather than when the change is made. We should engage in an immediate examination of how we might exploit the relevant markets.

There is a need, in the context of education, to place greater emphasis on the learning of languages, particularly Chinese and Spanish. The institutes of technology were established to operate as centres of research and development and they have links to industry. A company operating within Waterford Institute of Technology is actually involved — and has been quite successful — in establishing other companies. Our focus should be on the mantra "jobs, jobs, jobs".

During the earlier debate on small business, I referred to county and city enterprise boards. These boards are the first port of call for people seeking advice on starting their own businesses. The enterprise boards are in limbo. They do not know whether they are going to come under the remit of local government or Enterprise Ireland and the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. I am of the view that the former should be the case and that they should be part of a one-stop-shop model. The Government must make a decision in this regard in order that the enterprise boards might commence work. They should be provided with the funding necessary to allow them to create jobs. Many thousands of jobs were created in the past as a result of the work done by these boards.

As stated, we intend to bring together the various ideas put forward by the members of the various groups and present them to the Minister and the advisory committee on jobs. Senator Mary Ann O'Brien stated that this could be done by Smurfit Business School. I will take her up on that offer if it is possible to do so. We want movement on this matter and we need a response from the Minister. The Minister of State, Deputy Perry, has agreed to come before the House for a debate when the advisory committee has examined all the ideas put forward. I hope the Minister, Deputy Bruton, will also come before the House.

I had wondered whether this debate would last three hours and whether Senators would be present for its entire duration. I am glad it has done so and that many Senators have made excellent contributions. That is something which will reflect well on the Seanad. We must put forward ideas through debates of this nature because doing so is a way to promote the work of the House. It will be possible to engage in similar debates on many subjects. However, the need to create jobs is the most crucial issue with which we must deal at present. It is good that Senators are taking this matter seriously and offering worthy ideas which, I hope, will be acted upon. I thank all Senators for their contributions.

An Cathaoirleach

That concludes statements on ideas for job creation. When is it proposed to sit again?

Senator Maurice Cummins

At 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 25 January 2012.