Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 26 Jan 2012

Vol. 212 No. 14

Adjournment Matters

Banking Sector Regulation

Senator Averil Power

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I am sure he is well aware of the despicable situation in which the residents of Priory Hall have found themselves. Following a case brought by Dublin City Council, families have been forced to move out of their homes before Christmas, with little certainty for the future. Their apartments were not just badly built by Coalport Limited, they are very dangerous.

Dublin City Council has sought at every juncture to avoid responsibility. Its officials have displayed no humanity since the beginning of this debacle. It has also been clear from the outset that it is acting under the advice of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, yet to date the Minister will not even meet with the families concerned to listen to their stories.

While the residents are still facing a very bleak future, they now have to stomach watching the developer, Thomas McFeely, become the latest high profile Irish businessperson to avail of bankruptcy tourism in the UK, deliberately evading proceedings that are already under way in the Irish courts. Mr. McFeely will be free of restrictions in 12 months, having been declared bankrupt by the UK courts. He will be able to go about his life and his future business interests in his nice house on Ailesbury Road, without the slightest thought for the families affected by his shoddy, dishonest and cruel business practices.

As the Minister of State is aware, Seán Quinn also attempted to avail of the UK's more lenient bankruptcy laws, and was declared bankrupt in the North on 11 November. The IBRC was successful in having that adjudication of bankruptcy overturned by the High Court in Belfast on 24 November, by establishing that his centre of interest was not in Fermanagh, but in the Republic. This has allowed his case to be heard by the Irish courts, as is proper. The Seán Quinn case has established a precedent that bankruptcy tourism can and should be challenged.

While Mr. McFeely was declared bankrupt in London almost two weeks ago, I understand that NAMA still has not sought to have that overturned, and it is being left to a private individual to do so. A lady who was a victim of Mr. McFeely's shoddy practices in another development went to the distress of bringing him through the Irish courts and won a judgment against him for damages and costs, yet two years later he still has not paid. She has now filed bankruptcy proceedings in the Republic and he has now gone to London — his own lawyers claim in the newspapers that they did no know about this — and has been awarded bankruptcy there.

Does the Minister of State think it acceptable that NAMA is standing by while one of its creditors uses the much more lenient bankruptcy proceedings in the UK system? If he does not, will the Government indicate to NAMA that it should seek to have the judgment in the UK overturned?

I appeal to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to meet the residents and listen to their stories, and I appeal to the Government to change tack. So far, it has shown no support for the residents. I appeal to the Minister of State to change that approach and help the people concerned.

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Brian Hayes)

I thank the Senator for raising this important matter. NAMA has assured me, and has stated publicly on many occasions, that it will pursue all debts to the greatest extent feasible, in order to achieve the best achievable financial return for the State. Where debtors are refusing to co-operate, it has been necessary for NAMA to adopt a number of approaches, depending on the legal advice received in each case. Not all cases are the same, as the Senator is aware. Based on those legal opinions which come before NAMA on the particulars of each case, an individual view is determined as to which approach to follow. This may involve the pursuit of personal guarantees through the courts and in some cases, will require litigation to reverse asset transfers where the original intention appears to have been to place the assets concerned beyond the reach of NAMA.

I do not wish to comment on the position of any individual debtor or any particular existing or proposed legal proceeding. As the case referred to by the Senator is sub judice, it would not be appropriate for me to comment. However, I would make the following points to address the general issue raised by the Senator. Debtors do not normally inform their creditors in advance of their intention to pursue bankruptcy proceedings, and neither NAMA nor any other institution can prevent a debtor from applying for bankruptcy in Ireland or elsewhere if he or she has a legal right to do so. However, NAMA has advised me that where one of its debtors seeks to pursue bankruptcy proceedings outside of Ireland, and where NAMA does not believe that it is bona fide, it will challenge the court decision in such instances.

The general test applied in most jurisdictions as to whether a person is eligible to petition for bankruptcy in that jurisdiction is where that person's centre of main interests, or COMI, is in that jurisdiction. In England and Wales the threshold to establish COMI is comparatively low. The profile of some of NAMA's substantial debtors is of persons with some business interests in the UK and often there may be a well established pattern of travelling and staying in the UK in connection with these interests. The frequency and duration of such visits to the UK may have increased substantially in recent years as the Irish property market stalled and the UK market remained reasonably buoyant, particularly in London. Accordingly it has proved possible for certain NAMA debtors to legitimately pass the COMI requirement in the UK and seek to be made bankrupt there.

Where an individual has been made bankrupt in the UK, it is open to NAMA as a creditor to appoint a trustee in bankruptcy. The trustee will generally be an individual from the private sector and a licensed insolvency practitioner. He or she is charged, among other things, with maximising the return to creditors. The trustee has the power to summons the bankrupt to be examined as to his assets and to conduct investigations for hidden assets. NAMA advises me that it has already appointed trustees in bankruptcy who are carrying out such work.

The trustee in bankruptcy has the ability to apply to have the 12 month timeframe extended where there is non-co-operation from the bankrupt, or where there is evidence of assets being hidden. The point NAMA makes there is that people should not automatically assume, when NAMA appoints an individual to pursue debtors in this or other cases, that work is not ongoing. When published, a bankrupt in the UK may be discharged from bankruptcy after a lapse of one year, with a further two years during which he or she is monitored. In Ireland, it currently takes 12 years. As proposed in the draft Bill introduced yesterday by my colleague, the Minister for Justice and Equality, that period will be substantially reduced. The draft personal insolvency Bill provides for automatic discharge after three years in place of the current 12 years. Hence, there is an element of convergence which may make the UK process less attractive to some NAMA debtors in the future.

The Government is committed to introducing fair and appropriate revisions of bankruptcy laws as soon as possible. In the interim, NAMA assures me it will be using all of the powers available to it, within the existing legal framework, to ensure that developers face up to their responsibilities and maximise the return to the State on loans transferred to it.

Senator Averil Power

With respect, that is an extraordinarily hands-off reply given the general policy implications. What message does this send out in the current environment, not just to Priory Hall residents but to individuals and families who are under huge pressure? They can see their assets being taken from them and are worried about being able to pay their mortgages and feed their children, yet they can see developers and other business people taking a quick one-hour flight and availing of lenient measures in another jurisdiction. Given the broader policy implications, this is an issue that the Government needs to be much more hands-on about.

Will the Minister of State speak to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, and request that he meet the residents concerned and listen to their side of the argument?

Deputy Brian Hayes

With respect, I do not think the Senator is in a position to make assumptions about this case without full knowledge of the facts.

Senator Averil Power

Has the Minister of State seen the legal advice?

Deputy Brian Hayes

Also with respect, as I pointed out, this matter is sub judice. The Senator is well aware — or if not, she should be — of the clear constitutional barriers that exist between the courts of this land and the decisions of this or the other House. With regard to NAMA, to which these dubious assets have been transferred — an agency, I hasten to add, that was established by the Senator’s own party — we have a responsibility, in the firstinstance, to maximise the amounts of money returned to the State. While I appreciate the Senator’s concerns about this case — concerns that are equally borne by the Government — we must deal with this in a way that stands the test of legal challenge. I do not believeshe should automatically assume, in this or other cases, that NAMA is not pursuing this matter in the way in which it normally does its business, namely, appointing persons who normally act in cases of insolvency and then trying to maximise the amount of money reclaimed from debtors.

I will transmit to my colleague the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government the Senator's views that he should meet the group concerned. I give her my word that I will say that to him.

Counterfeit Pesticides

Senator Colm Burke

My question is about the sale of pesticides. While I know there is comprehensive legislation dealing with this matter, I would like to ask about counterfeit pesticides. My understanding is that there is a major trade in counterfeit pesticides across Europe, although the authorities are working hard to combat this problem. A loophole has been identified. It is illegal to sell counterfeit pesticides, but it appears there is a deficiency in the legislation in some European countries, and the legislation in Ireland lacks some clarity with regard to whether the authorities have the right to confiscate. In a recent case, 135 tonnes of counterfeit pesticides that were being transported between Germany and Lithuania had to be returned to the owners because the legislation there did not allow the products to be confiscated.

Now we are facing into the spring season, in which there is substantial use of pesticides in this country. In fairness to farmers in this country, they are careful about what they buy and who they buy it from, but it appears this is a growing problem across Europe. What checks have been established in this country? Do we have adequate legislation to ensure we can impound any product that is proved to be a counterfeit? As the people who are bringing these products to the market use false information on the containers, it may be hard to identify what is counterfeit unless there are adequate testing procedures. Does the Minister have concerns about this matter? How are the products coming into this country checked? How can we ensure our legislation in this regard is adequate?

Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Simon Coveney)

I thank the Senator for raising this issue. I am glad he did so because it has forced a focus on this issue in my office that perhaps was not there previously, although there is a strong focus on it in the Department, as I have found out since the Senator tabled his motion.

The placing on the market and use of plant protection products is regulated in Ireland by SI 83/2003. This instrument implements European legislation that lays down the procedures and decision-making criteria that must be used for assessing risk and for approving active substances and the plant protection products containing them.

The pesticide registration and control division, PRCD, of my Department has primary responsibility for the implementation of the legislation in this regard. The registration of plant protection products is a two-stage process. First, the active substances are scientifically reviewed at a European level and, following approval, are included in a positive list of approved substances. Following this inclusion, each member state is required to carry out a detailed scientific review of products containing that particular active substance so that the products may be placed on the market. This review includes a detailed assessment of all properties of a product. It assesses the impact on human or animal health and on the environment that may arise from use of the product, along with its biological effectiveness. Almost 850 such pesticides are registered for marketing in Ireland. Products demonstrating unacceptable impact on health or the environment or without suitable effectiveness cannot be approved or registered.

In addition to the registration process, my Department is also responsible for enforcement of the Chemicals Act in so far as it relates to pesticides. The Act implements procedures to regulate the import and export of dangerous pesticides and improve the regulation of pesticides, especially in developing countries, by requiring prior informed consent from an importing country before import or export can take place. The Act also deals with the classification, labelling and packaging of chemicals, including pesticides, and lays down strict requirements in this regard.

Authorised officers of my Department ensure compliance with the legislation through an enforcement programme, which involves a planned series of inspections of wholesale and retail outlets, sampling and analysis of the pesticides offered for sale to ensure they meet FAO tolerances, namely, that they are what they say they are, and residue testing of Irish and imported primary food products. Approximately 400 wholesale and retail outlets are inspected annually, and wholesalers receive at least three annual inspections to ensure compliance with the regulations. If unregistered products are found several courses of action are available to the authorised officer — this is the key issue for the Senator — which may involve seizure and destruction, the recall and re-export of the product to the country of origin and-or a criminal prosecution. However, it is fair to say the majority of non-compliance encountered by authorised officers relates to a failure to fully comply with the registration procedures.

An annual formulation sampling programme is conducted in order to verify that the products on the market comply with the registration specification. Samples are taken again at retail and wholesale levels and analysed by the pesticide control laboratory. It is accredited to ISO 17025 standard and is equipped with the latest analytical technology. The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine carries out a comprehensive pesticide residue control programme, whereby approximately 1,500 samples of produce, both Irish and imported, are analysed for some 340 pesticides. The results indicate substantial compliance with the legislation.

Since the Senator has raised the issue I will revert to the experts in my Department and discuss the issue with them. If he has specific examples or anecdotal evidence that further legislation or enforcement are needed I would like to hear about it.

Senator Colm Burke

My understanding is that there is adequate legislation but the problem is the impounding of products. There is concern that the EU regulations, which we have followed very carefully, involve a technicality about the impounding of counterfeit pesticide. The issue has been raised at European level. I do not know whether there is a proposal to introduce amending regulations to deal with it. It has not been a problem and the Minister has given a very comprehensive reply, for which I thank him and his staff. My only issue is that if such products are found we have the right to infringe them.

Deputy Simon Coveney

I will follow through on that issue. I have a comprehensive answer but only read out part of it because of time constraints. The Senator will find a lot of detail in it useful. I ask him to contact the office if he wishes to follow up.

Senator Colm Burke

I thank the Minister.

Proposed Bankruptcy Legislation

Senator Jim Walsh

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit go dtí an Teach.

I drafted my Adjournment matter about two weeks ago but it has been overtaken by events yesterday. In that regard, I welcome the publication of the heads of the Bill to deal with this fairly intractable problem. The 12 year bankruptcy provisions we have are the most onerous in the EU and are very punitive. They apply to a different era and are badly in need of updating.

I am glad personal insolvency has been included. There is now real urgency about tackling the personal debt issue and this is an attempt to move in the right direction. We are three and a half years into the financial crisis and many people have been struggling during that period. It is time that people saw some light at the end of the tunnel. We have been addressing the question of the banks being bankrupt and it is time we addressed personal indebtedness and bankruptcy.

A presentation was made to us last week, with which the Minister of State might be familiar, by the CSO and Oireachtas Library and Research Service. They showed that there is a huge problem in the 30 to 39 year old age group, which has negative equity of €7.1 billion. The next highest category is those aged between 40 and 49, which has negative equity of €2.1 billion. The figures show where the concentration of this problem lies. The Minister said this is not a negative equity issue, rather it is about indebtedness and the capacity of people to be able to meet it, which is an important point.

I am moving between the mortgage side and the individuals who have given personal guarantees to banks. Many have gone to Britain, where the bankruptcy provisions are more lenient, and dealt with the issue there. That is not good for a number of reasons. We may be losing people to other jurisdictions who in the past have had very good credit and entrepreneurial records and created many jobs in this country. Given our population size, it is important that the coterie of people who found themselves blown away by the current global economic downturn are in a position to re-enter the business market here. We need to concentrate on ensuring that happens.

In doing that we have to be mindful we are balanced because the interests of the taxpayers, who are funding the banks, and moral hazard have to be taken into account. Having said that, if we do not have a proper functioning economy with business leaders who will drive we will not have growth or be able to deal with the sovereign debt issues. The issues are interlinked and we have to deal with them in a sensible way.

We have to be cognisant that this is the greatest downturn any of us have ever seen in our lifetimes. To a great degree it replicates what happened during the Wall Street crash and Great Depression in the 1930s. That puts the issue in context. We cannot and should not, from a moral point of view, bail out banks which acted irresponsibly and put all the blame on those who perhaps borrowed irresponsibly.

I welcome the reduction to three years, which is significant. I suggest the period should be between one and three years and that judicial discretion could be exercised because of the unprecedented position we are in this. If we were in normal economic times I might suggest a period of between two and five years but we need to address the current crisis.

There needs to be absolute discharge. One cannot have an overhang where the Revenue Commissioners can look to be paid back or a person is charged for the cost of bankruptcy. I have seen nothing in the heads of the Bill to deal with the exorbitant cost of legal fees.

There is no mention of any debt resolution agency. Such an agency would be the kernel of what we should try to do to ensure there is appropriate balance between individuals and banks. Voluntary schemes will only work if both parties come to an agreement. There needs to be pressure on both to reach that agreement. There is now an imbalance that favours the banks. We need to enable people to recover quickly from the current crisis in the interests of all of us and the economy.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Kathleen Lynch)

I thank the Senator for raising the important issue of reform of our bankruptcy law and practice by way of Adjournment debate today. It gives me an opportunity to inform the House of recent developments, to which the Senator has already referred, regarding the reform of our personal insolvency regime. The Minister, Deputy Shatter, asked me to convey his apologies for not being here today as he is attending a meeting of Justice and Home Affairs Ministers in Denmark.

Senators will be aware that earlier this week the Cabinet gave its approval to the proposals of the Minister for the drafting of the personal insolvency Bill. On Wednesday, 25 January the Minister launched the comprehensive reform of our insolvency law and practice following the Government's approval of the general scheme of the personal insolvency Bill. The detailed and comprehensive heads of the Bill are available on the Department of Justice and Equalitywebsite. I am sure the Senator has already seen them. They are being referred to the JointCommittee on Justice, Defence and Equality with a request for preliminary observationsby 1 March next. I agree with the Senator that we cannot hang around in this respect. It has to be done as quickly as possible. The members of the committee, and other Members of both Houses who wish to attend meetings of the committee, will have time to consider the proposals and to make an input into the substantive provisions the Government will ultimately adopt.A Bill is to be developed on a priority basis so it can be published by the end of April,in line with the revised commitment in the EU-IMF programme of financial support forIreland. The legislation will also fulfil the relevant commitment in the programme for Government.

The reforms set out in the document that was published yesterday constitute the most radical reform of our insolvency laws since the foundation of the State. The reform of bankruptcy law invariably focuses on the length of the discharge period that will apply to the person adjudicated bankrupt. This point was debated in both Houses during the passage of the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2011, which contained some early reforms of bankruptcy law. It provided for a reduction in the period that applies to court applications for discharge from bankruptcy from 12 years to five, subject to the conditions in place. For the first time in Irish law, a system of automatic discharge of bankruptcies has been introduced, to take effect on the 12th anniversary of the bankruptcy adjudication order. These provisions were commenced with effect from 10 October 2011.

It was decided that the question of a further reduction in the period for automatic discharge of a bankrupt had to be addressed in the consideration of more comprehensive reform. Opinions vary as to the appropriate period. There was reasonable consensus that the one-year period that applies in the UK is too short but anything beyond five years is too long, particularly if the bankrupt person has been fully compliant and not behaved fraudulently in any way. That is the Senator's central point. Given that our neighbouring jurisdictions operate the most liberal bankruptcy discharge regime in the world, the Government has to be conscious of not incentivising forum shopping. As we have seen in certain cases recently, however, such efforts are not always successful.

The Government has decided that a three-year automatic discharge period is the most realistic approach in the circumstances. The approach that has been chosen means a fixed period for applications to the court for discharge of a bankruptcy — at present five years — is no longer required. Senators will agree that the reduced time period for automatic discharge from bankruptcy is a significant reform. To ensure there is no temptation to seek to unjustly exploit this provision, the proposed personal insolvency Bill will provide for a number of other measures. A discharge from bankruptcy could be delayed by the court for a period up to a maximum of eight years — the Senator made this point — for non-compliance or for fraudulent or dishonest behaviour by the bankrupt during the process. A court may make a payment order requiring the discharged bankrupt to make certain payments in favour of creditors, allowing for reasonable living expenses, for a period of up to five years. There will be extended timeframes in regard to possible fraudulent transfers or settlements of assets by the applicant for bankruptcy.

Full disclosure and realisation of all the bankrupt's assets and interests for the benefit of creditors has always been and will continue to be a requirement of our bankruptcy law. If full disclosure and realisation has been made, there is no reason to deny or delay a discharge in respect of any person. I understand the proposed legislation does not refer to "full discharge", but I am sure that is its intent. In developing the scheme of the personal insolvency Bill, the Minister for Justice and Equality has taken account not only of the extensive recommendations made by the Law Reform Commission but also of the Cooney report, the Keane report and other relevant reports. He has done this with a view to formulating proposals for the comprehensive reform of bankruptcy law and the creation of a new non-judicial debt settlement scheme, which is another one of the issues raised by the Senator.

The personal insolvency Bill will propose to put in place, for the first time, a non-judicial system for the settlement of debt. Three new non-judicial debt settlement systems are being introduced, subject to relevant conditions in each case. The debt relief certificate system will allow for the full write-off of qualifying unsecured debt concerning debtors with "no assets and no income" up to €20,000 after a one-year moratorium period. The debt settlement arrangement system will allow for the agreed settlement of unsecured debt of €20,001 and over. The personal insolvency arrangement system will allow for the agreed settlement of both secured and unsecured debt of €20,001 and over. The personal insolvency arrangement system provides for a unique and specific mechanism to assist in resolving the difficulties confronting thousands of home owners in negative equity with mortgage arrears who are genuinely incapable of discharging their monthly mortgage repayments. The use of this mechanism has the potential to allow agreed debt settlement arrangements to be put in place which will enable people to continue residing in their homes and avoid judicial bankruptcy.

The Bill also proposes the establishment of an insolvency service to operate the new non-judicial insolvency arrangements. Senators will appreciate that reform of our personal insolvency regime is not a simple task. It is a very complex area of the law. The consequences and implications of new policies in this area need to be carefully assessed. A delicate balance needs to be struck between the various legal rights of the parties involved. The intention behind the proposed personal insolvency Bill is to design a system which is fair to both creditors and debtors. Any failure to do so would make worse a situation that is already extremely difficult for both parties.

Senator Jim Walsh

I thank the Minister of State for her reply. I am pleased with it. Many are suffering as a consequence of the financial circumstances in which they have found themselves. Many have committed suicide. There is a need for urgency in this respect. I welcome the Minister of State's comments in that regard. She did not mention anything about the debt resolution agency. I urge the Government to consider it as a means of ensuring people have allies when they try to reach settlements with banks. People should not be dealt with in a totally impersonal way by banks that do not recognise the difficulties they are in. The discharge after three years should be absolute. There should be no problems with cost hangovers or preferential creditors, including the Revenue Commissioners. I ask the Minister of State to convey to the Minister for Finance the need for determination in this regard, given the circumstances we are in.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

I appreciate the leniency of the Chair in allowing me to refer to the additional briefing notes that have been provided to me in support of the comprehensive reply I have read. According to this material, it is intended that the adjudicators or mediators in this respect would be the agencies with which we are familiar, including the Money Advice and Budgeting Service. Those bodies, which have a remit in this area, will be named in the Bill. In addition, I understand it is intended to provide for absolute discharge in the legislation. I do not think the notion that a bankruptcy could be discharged while additional costs arising from the bankruptcy remain is being entertained. I am sure the Minister will clarify all of these matters during the debate on the legislation.

Dental Services

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Gabhaim buíochas léi as ucht teacht isteach chun an cheist seo a phlé. Tá an fhadhb seo beag, b'fhéidir, i gcomhthéacs na tíre, ach tá sí mór dóibh siúd ar a bhfuil sí ag cur isteach. The major cutbacks that have been made to dental services throughout the country since budget 2011 have had a big impact in smaller rural areas. These problems have come to the fore in the Connemara area in recent weeks. The chief executive of the Irish Dental Association, Fintan Hourihan, said last year that Irish dental care is in a state of emergency and requires urgent assistance as a result of a mixture of official neglect and ongoing cutbacks. He continued:

Two thirds of dentists say they are now referring more patients to hospitals while 73% are referring more patients to HSE dental clinics. We predicted this would happen when the cutbacks were announced. We now fear that patients are in for a lot more pain and delays because the system is buckling under the pressure.

Early last year, subsidies for dental care under social insurance were slashed, as were entitlements to routine dental care for medical card patients. Some 88% of the dentists who were polled did not believe the public is aware of its remaining entitlements under two dental health schemes. This is having a particular effect on small rural communities, such as those in Árainn and Connemara. Local people in Carna were not given any news on the ending of the dentistry service that had been provided by the HSE and the health services for many years. They only heard about it in the last couple of days. The dental services provided in Connemara will be reorganised from next month. Alternative arrangements are being made to replace the service provided from the health centre in Carna one day a week. This decision was made on account of staff shortages and the HSE being unable to replace staff who leave the service due to the public service moratorium on recruitment.

Currently, a limited service is provided by a dental hygienist in Carraroe and from February a dental team will be in Carraroe for one day per week to provide an elective and emergency service to the area. Patients who currently attend the one day per week clinic in Carna will be asked to attend clinics in Clifden or Carraroe. We are told the dental team will contact patients to rearrange appointments in Clifden or Carraroe. This will affect students in nine national schools that are served by the clinic in Carna.

The children of the area are being unfairly targeted due to the harsh cutbacks and the moratorium on recruitment in the HSE. This is inequitable, unfair and unacceptable. It is also very unfair to expect people to bear the extra travel costs pertaining to attending the basic services, as outlined, which could have a detrimental long-term effect on their health. I urge the Minister to use his influence to ensure that these services remain in Carna where they are accessible to the community, rather than take them out of the community.

The children in Carna are having their one day per week taken away and it is being given to the community in Carraroe, where we have already had a bad service. There is quite a distance between the two places and there is no direct bus service between Carna and Carraroe or between Carna and Clifden. Anyone who does not have a car cannot get to the clinic. Travelling also means taking children out of school for half a day and parents having to take time off work. The move strikes me as being very unfair.

I urge the Minister to see if there is any way the moratorium on recruitment can be addressed in this situation. I know that exceptions have been made in some cases and this is an area where an exception should be made. It would be for the benefit of those children. This is a very important service.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

I thank the Senator for raising this issue. No matter where a service is provided parents will have to take time off work to take their children to dentists.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

They might not have to spend half a day travelling.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

I understand that and the distances involved. I say this because I am not certain anything I have in my reply is any different from what the Senator has said. I hope he accepts that. I accept that there are huge distances involved. I understand that the distances and the nature of the terrain mean this case is different. That is accepted.

I wish to address the provision of public dental services, in particular for children in Connemara and the Aran Islands. The public dental service provides emergency, routine and preventive oral health services to children under 16 and to people of all ages with special needs. The services are delivered by dentists, dental nurses and dental hygienists employed by the HSE. Galway local health office area provides dental and other health services to Galway city and county. It has a population of approximately 254,000 and is served by nine dental teams. Services provided by the dental teams include services for those with special needs; general anaesthetic services for both those with special needs and children requiring same; emergency services; screening and treatment for all 6th class children before entering secondary school; and orthodontic assessments.

Where resources permit, additional school classes are screened and preventive care and treatment provided. Staffing for dental teams in Galway is expected to reduce after February 2012 due to early retirements. Galway local health office area teams will be further reorganised at that time to include realignment of staff to ensure that equity of services is maintained across the area. The vast majority of children from the Aran Islands avail of services provided in Galway city.

The HSE is to consider the possibility of providing a school screening service on the Aran Islands so as to reduce the need for children to travel to the mainland. From next month, the dental services provided in Connemara will be reorganised. Alternative arrangements are being made to replace the one day a week service currently provided from the health centre in Carna. Patients who currently attend the one day a week clinic in Carna will be asked to attend clinics in Clifden or Carraroe, as the Senator has outlined. The dental team will contact patients from the nine primary schools served by Carna to rearrange appointments for them in Clifden or Carraroe clinics. This centralisation of the service is necessary to ensure that standards for infection control are maintained at all of the clinics within the Clifden Primary Care Network. Refocusing services to fewer clinics ensures maintenance of standards. Centralisation is necessary also to ensure that sufficient staff are available regularly to service all of the clinics.

The clinic in Carraroe has been upgraded recently. It has a limited service provided by a dental hygienist. From February a dental team will provide an elective and an emergency service in the area for one day a week from the Carraroe clinic. Works on the clinic in Clifden are under way to ensure that it meets the national standards for infection control. The Clifden primary care network area which includes the dental clinics at Clifden and Carraroe and also a clinic in Oughterard serves a population of approximately 34,000. Dental services are provided six days per week from this primary care network.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

The Minister of State mentioned that the Carraroe clinic was recently upgraded for reasons of safety and standards. Does that mean the clinic in Carna which was upgraded only in the last year or so is not up to a sufficient standard? It is my understanding that the clinic was only set up in the last year or so. If so, how did that happen?

The Minister of State has not addressed the issue. These cutbacks are very unfair. I ask the Minister to discuss this matter again with the HSE. The new arrangement will place a huge burden on the children and parents in that area. It is very unfair.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

The issue is not merely one of standards. There is also the issue of staff, as the Senator mentioned. We will have a huge difficulty with early retirements and it will affect all areas. I will, most definitely, take the Senator's remarks back to the Minister.

The Seanad adjourned at 2.50 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 31 January 2012.