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Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 23 Oct 2012

Vol. 218 No. 2

Order of Business

The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on junior certificate reform and the numeracy and literacy strategy, to be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business, to conclude not later than 5.45 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes, those of other Senators not to exceed five minutes, and the Minister to be called to reply to the debate not later than 5.35 p.m.

As the Deputy Leader will see from the agenda today and on Thursday, vast swathes of time are available to this House to do far more important things. There is one item after the Order of Business today and on Thursday. Will the Deputy Leader follow up with the Whips office the position of this House in regard to scrutinising proposed EU legislation and statutory instruments from Ministers? I put it to her that the expertise is in this House and many Members on both sides have raised this issue. We are ready, willing and able to do so, and it should be done. This is something on which we should insist in this session. I would be grateful if the Deputy Leader followed up that point, as I intend to raise it again.

On four occasions, I have raised the need for a debate on perinatal care. Before the summer recess, many of us attended an excellent presentation by families whose children died very soon after birth. I received a commitment from the Leader that we would have a debate. I do not want to see this move to the next session, so will the Deputy Leader ask when that debate will be scheduled?

This question relates to mortgage resolution measures about which I have asked over the past number of weeks. The banks were supposed to submit plans on mortgage resolution measures to the Central Bank by 30 September. We have heard nothing since. Will the Deputy Leader confirm that has actually happened? Does the Department of Finance know what is in them? When will those potential mortgage resolution measures be made public?

Finally and most importantly, may I ask if the Deputy Leader raised with the Minister for Health the issue of home help and home care package cuts? We discussed this at length in the House last week. I tabled an amendment to the Order of Business which, unfortunately, was defeated by the Government side. The Minister for Health and not the HSE is directly in charge. Some 450,000 hours will be taken out of the system between now and Christmas on top of 500,000 hours which were cut earlier this year. We need the Minister for Health and Children to come to the House to explain the situation. Is he telling us the HSE is honestly going to assess 11 million hours between now and Christmas to see who can do without the hours?

I am certain all of us are receiving calls, letters and e-mails from constituents that their home care packages and home help hours are being cut arbitrarily. The family of a blind 88 year old man in Swords contacted me last week. He has had his home help hours reduced by three hours and he was advised of this by a letter from Fingal home care. There was no discussion or no review.

What is happening in this area? Are we protecting the front line service and the most vulnerable in our society - the elderly, the infirm and people with disabilities? Has the Deputy Leader lobbied the Minster for Health on this matter? Will she arrange time next week for this issue to be debated openly and honestly with the Minister for Health? If we do not do that, we are doing the public a grave disservice.

I would like to refer to the very positive independent report published yesterday by Indecon on the JobBridge scheme which gave internships to young people, graduates and non-graduates. The report showed a successful outcome in that 52% of those who finished the JobBridge scheme are currently in paid employment, which is very encouraging. Some 89% of the interns felt the JobBridge scheme had given them new skills, encouraged them, had given them confidence and had assisted them in identifying job opportunities to suit their abilities. The Minister for Social Protection launched the report yesterday and what was encouraging was that it was an independent evaluation of the JobBridge scheme, which was criticised in some quarters. I always thought it was a very positive scheme and the results of that independent report bear that out.

There were reports in the media over the weekend about illegal substances being bought on the Internet. I refer, in particular, to diet pills and products previously available in head shops, which were banned in 2010. We now find those products are being bought on the Internet and are being distributed by An Post.

There was a sad story of an 18 year old girl who bought illegal diet pills online and who had to have her colon removed, having developed a life threatening illness after taking them. It is a serious issue, which is probably a customs issue. The products are being brought in and then distributed by An Post with no questions asked. From a public health policy point of view, this matter should be addressed. I acknowledge this is difficult to control but measures must be introduced to ensure such products do not get into the hands of the wrong people. They are illegal because they are dangerous.

I pay tribute to two outstanding and courageous journalists - Paul Kimmage and David Walsh. They deserve all our thanks and full credit for the courage, conviction and perseverance they showed over a decade to expose the outrageous cheating, drug abuse and doping that occurred on the Tour de France. They have been vindicated, although Mr. Kimmage stands exposed to being sued, which is a scandal. Unfortunately, Lance Armstrong, who was a hero and inspiration to us all and a role model we hoped we could look up to, presided over a decade of disgrace and drug taking on the Tour de France. It seems that throughout that decade more drugs were available on the Tour de France than at Woodstock in 1969.

Has the Deputy a question for the Deputy Leader?

My question pertains to media control and ownership because without a strong, independent and robust media, these situations would never be challenged or exposed. A documentary on RTE last night dealt with the question of the future of television. Will programmes only be made on the basis of who can sponsor or pay for them? Will it be a case of he who pays the piper calls the tune? That would be dangerous. I am concerned by what is not printed as opposed to what is, and what is prevented from getting into print should concern us all. The mighty BBC has again been brought into disrepute this week because of what it failed to publish regarding the Jimmy Savile saga. We have been talking about legislation in this area for the past two years. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources has indicated over and over again that the responsibility for media ownership and control will be transferred to his Department from the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and the question of media diversity, control and ownership will be addressed in legislation. When can we expect to see this?

I again call for a debate on perinatal care. There was a great deal of support on the day the One More Day families presented to Members of both Houses. The response from the Seanad Members was wholehearted. Arising from that, the Leader said there would be a debate. I would also like a debate on this important topic for which there is a great deal of support.

As somebody who has signalled support for the children's referendum, I find the constant tones of negativity regarding the McKenna judgment emanating from politicians on different sides of the House, although mainly from the Government, disturbing. We should have a debate on the merits of the judgment. The decision of the Supreme Court in 1995 said that taxpayers' money could not be used to promote one side in a referendum and that is a sound principle. I am not worried very much that this might create a challenge for broadcasters or politicians. If we are going to amend our Constitution, the proposal needs to be tested in full and journalists, if they do their job, will be able to ask hard, forensic questions of the proponents of a "Yes" or "No" vote. The principle that taxpayers' money should not be abused by one side or another is important and that applies regardless of whether there is apparent 90% support for a proposal. In that regard, credit is due to The Irish Times journalist for realising it was not appropriate for the services of the Oireachtas to be made available to advocate for one side or another or to assist others in so doing, and to the Oireachtas communications unit for its quick decision.

The Minister for Justice and Equality is quite wrong when he talks about an undermining of the doctrine of separation of powers. He says it was a nonsense that committee members felt they could only gather as individuals. The members of the committee can gather. They just cannot use publicly funded resources, apart from their own salaries, to advocate for one side or the other. It is a very healthy principle but this matter undermines the trust people have in politicians when they see evidence of politicians seeking to undermine a principle of fairness. Politicians must show discipline in this issue and get out and campaign for what they believe in using their individual resources and party funds. They should stop trying to leech off public funds to advocate for the proposal. They have done their job in bringing the proposals to the people and now the people should be let decide without fear or favour. It is an interference in the separation of powers, as the Minister for Justice and Equality suggested, that the judgment might be revisited in the courts at a future date. If that is a nod from the Executive to the Judiciary on what it would like to see happening in the future, it would be better that the nod was not made.

An important event is the online survey of parents in selected areas in order that they can give their views on their preferred choice of school patronage. It is an important exercise in consultation. It should have been a paper-based consultation because there is something exclusive about doing it online. None the less, important information will be gleaned. We should also welcome the ESRI study on diversity. It shows that while Educate Together schools do very well on inclusion of international students, Catholic schools also do very well, and better than other schools, in terms of social class inclusion, such as Traveller children and other categories. Congratulations are due all round to different categories of schools representing and championing diversity in society.

Much has been said and written in recent days about the news that the process of change in the patronage of schools at primary level is under way, with parents in Arklow, Tramore, Castlebar, Trim and Whitehall – I did not mention anywhere in my constituency-----

-----being asked what patron they would like to see running the local primary school. The responses of parents will be used to decide the changes to be made. One newspaper had a headline that parents are to vote as the church's grip on schools weakens. I do not see it as a weakening of church patronage of schools but as a matter of choice in primary education. I am strongly of the opinion that faith schools will continue to play a major role in the provision of primary education. The Minister for Education and Skills is coming to the Chamber today. As the process is ongoing, perhaps we could have an update on how the Minister feels the process is going. I congratulate the faith schools and the churches that have bought into this process. If the school hands over a building in one of these towns, it will not cease to operate but will amalgamate with another school in the locality and the building will be free for the schools to use.

I read a review by Geraldine Kennedy of Mary O'Rourke's new book and I see a full chapter of the book is devoted to Senator Terry Leyden. I am looking forward to that bedtime reading.

A Senator

Her hero.

Senator D'Arcy is ultra vires.

In the interest of balance, could Senator D'Arcy advertise my book while he is at it? It is far better written. The Senator is not mentioned in it.

Last year I raised the issue of food labelling and the agrifood sector.

Today, I was saddened to learn of the loss of 90 jobs in a poultry plant in County Cavan. The business credited its loss making to feed price rises, increasing energy costs, poor market prices and low quality imports. The Irish Farmers Association has expressed serious concerns about the future viability of the poultry sector and fears that it will be wiped out if its issues are not addressed. Given the importance of the agrifood sector to the economy and its status as an indigenous industry, will the Leader arrange for the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, or the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, to attend the House to debate the industry and job creation and retention therein? I am referring to the wider agrifood sector as well as the specialised poultry industry.

Co-operative Poultry Products Limited in Cootehill, County Cavan, was in operation for more than 60 years and has now closed its doors. It is sad that we are losing indigenous companies and jobs, particularly given the fact that they are speckled across the State's rural and urban areas. We need to debate the issue of food processing in terms of Harvest 2020, job retention or imports. Will the Leader arrange for such a debate?

I will spare a thought for the weekend's road fatalities and the affected families, but most especially for the two Gilmore infants who were tragically killed in Tuam, County Galway.

We must compliment the Road Safety Authority on its work. It is coincidental that this weekend will see a road safety festival in Oranmore, where there will be a Guinness Book of Records attempt for the most people wearing high-visibility vests. We are hoping to exceed 5,000. Road safety is important. I thank Mr. Noel Brett and the RSA, which will bring simulators to show how easily cars can turn over, the effect of alcohol on driving, etc. The festival will be an eye opener, as the consequences of accidents can be gruesome. I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach for the opportunity to raise this issue.

Has the Senator a question? Her time has almost concluded.

Although there is much more work to be done, it is great news that Ireland's legacy debts have been deemed a special case by Germany and France.

Fan go bhfeicimid.

Show us the money.

Of course we are a special case.

We are a basket case.

A Senator

Senator Norris is right.

We saved the entire European banking system, particularly as we took on-----

(Interruptions).

I would expect the other side to ride the storm together. We are in this together, for God's sake.

(Interruptions).

A Senator

Do not be giving us any of that false nonsense.

Do you know what it means for our country?

Senator Healy Eames should address her comments through the Chair, please. Her time is up.

Every citizen of Ireland is hurting because of this legacy debt.

Which the Senator's party leader stated we should repay in full.

We should send Senator Healy Eames to negotiate.

The Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, should press on and secure a deal before we take over the European Presidency. I say this for a reason.

The Senator's time has concluded.

I realise that, but I wish to speak one sentence.

I must call Senator Leyden.

If we do not secure the deal before we take over the European Presidency, we will be seen to be selfish and to make it about us.

The Senator is not entitled to make a statement. She has made her point.

Each time a foreign Minister comes to Ireland, it will be seen to be about our debt. Securing the deal before we take over the European Presidency will achieve much for Germany, Ireland and Europe.

Statements are not allowed on the Order of Business.

Senator Healy Eames should visit Chancellor Merkel.

Senator Leyden has one minute and should not start a confrontation.

There are no flies on Chancellor Merkel.

The Senator would frighten the life out of her.

Does Senator Leyden have a question?

The Chancellor would give in straight away. The Leas-Chathaoirleach should not be too severe with me. I have had bad experiences over the years. They are mentioned in the book.

The clock is ticking.

I thank Senator Jim D'Arcy for his kind words. Mrs. Mary O'Rourke's autobiography is entitled Just Mary.

In the book she mentioned the Seanad and the esteemed Clerk and Clerk Assistant, noting their professionalism, which is much recognised.

It is not appropriate for us to discuss Mary O'Rourke's book.

It has been mentioned. The Leas-Chathaoirleach allowed Senator D'Arcy-----

I warned the Senator at the beginning not to become involved in confrontation. He has 20 seconds left.

The section in question is devoted to Charles J. Haughey. It refers to a Christmas visit to Abbeville.

If Senators wish to do so, they can read the book. It is not appropriate to discuss it now.

Is the Leas-Chathaoirleach recommending it?

I have not seen it. The Senator has 20 seconds left. Has he any matter to raise besides these frivolities?

I had no intention of raising that matter at all.

The Senator has wasted one minute and 15 seconds.

The day is long.

It is not. The Senator's time is limited.

I ask that we request the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Gilmore, to come to brief the House on the Syrian issue and, by extension, the Lebanon issue. It is a tragic position in the Middle East and the House would appreciate a briefing in that regard.

I seek the Leas-Chathaoirleach's indulgence as he would feel it appropriate-----

I have not said anything yet.

On behalf of the House I note that the former ambassador to Ireland of the Palestinian state, Dr. Ali Ahmed Halimeh, died on 16 September 2012. He was an excellent ambassador to this country, serving from 2001 to 2005. With his support I established the Friends of Palestine group in the Oireachtas. He served his country well and was also an ambassador to South Africa following his time in Ireland. We should extend our sympathies to his wife Imman, his daughter Noura and his son Ahmed.

I have been very indulgent.

Yes, but it is an important matter. I appreciate the Leas-Chathaoirleach's indulgence.

It is also a special case.

I join Senator Healy Eames in giving our thoughts and sympathies to the Gilmore family in Tuam, especially John and Michelle on the tragic death of their daughters Kate and Grace. They died in a freak accident, as Members will have read in the papers, which has devastated a community and family. The father of the children was out for a leisurely Sunday afternoon stroll when the family's lives were turned upside down. Our thoughts are with them and also with the driver of the car-----

The Senator should be careful as the matter is still a live issue.

-----who appears to have become unwell at the wheel. It was a particularly sad week for many families because of a loss of life on the road over the weekend. As we head to winter time and darker evenings, not to mention the bank holiday weekend, the message must go out from this House that everyone should be more vigilant on the roads. We must check our tyres and lights and support the activities of the Road Safety Authority. As we approach the festive season the issue of drink-driving is another matter. We must also consider speeding up the introduction of roadside drug testing for drivers at the scene of accidents. Last week I called on the relevant Minister to come to the House to discuss that matter. It is intended to introduce that facility next year and all of us in the House would like to see it available at an earlier date.

I support some of the compliments paid to our Taoiseach for the display of his diplomatic skill over the weekend and ensuring the communiqué of 29 June, indicating how Ireland is to be treated as a special case, is back on track. We now have the support of the German Chancellor and French President and we can make very significant progress in the interests of the country. I am a little saddened that many politicians and people in the media would like to see our Taoiseach fail.

We do not want to see him fail.

This is a time for national unity, with everyone pulling together in the interest of Ireland. I look forward to us making very significant progress in the months ahead in resolving our mountain of debt.

I, too, would like to extend my sympathies to the families of all those who tragically lost their lives on the roads last weekend.

I warmly welcome the news at the weekend of the complete exoneration of the parish priest in my parish of Blackrock, County Louth. Fr. Oliver Brennan's name was completely exonerated-----

That is not appropriate or relevant. A lot of issues are being raised today and one must be very careful about naming people. The issues must be appropriate to the Order of Business.

This issue was raised by-----

It is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

I would just like to say that I welcome the news.

I agree with Senator Darragh O'Brien in that I, too, would like the Minister for Health to come to the House to discuss several health issues which are very pertinent and need to be discussed at the first possible opportunity. Last night, I attended a meeting run by Patient Focus in regard to the women who were excluded from the original Neary redress scheme. The Minister for Health promised these 35 women that he would publish the results of an immediate review. Almost eight months have gone by and we still have no word. I raised the issue on the Adjournment but I call on the Minister again to come to the House to answer some questions.

I deplore the fact that a group of duly elected Members of the Oireachtas were inhibited from making their position on the children's referendum clear. I am not convinced by the argument that, as my colleague, Senator Mullen, said, they were leeching off taxpayers' money. I am not sure what taxpayers' money was involved in holding an event in Merrion Square. That seems to be a very wide interpretation of the law. Perhaps it was a telephone call. I would also welcome the fact that if there are Members of the Oireachtas who have a conscientious difficulty with this referendum, they too should have the same facilities. It is extremely important this matter is debated. Will the Deputy Leader pass on to the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Fitzgerald, my strong support and say that I, and I am sure a lot of other people, would be happy to join in a larger telephone call? It would not just be a committee but it would be all Members of the Oireachtas who support this. It is a judgment call.

As somebody who has been involved and interested in this area, particularly through the guardian ad litem system and so on, the Roscommon incest case, for example, was vitiated by the absence of a strong constitutional provision to protect the rights of a child. It is vital that we have a strong turnout. The worst possible thing would be if there was a low turnout and the result, whichever way it goes, was questioned.

I addressed a meeting this morning in the National College of Ireland near the Irish Financial Services Centre and this was one of the issues which came up. Questions were raised but, on balance, people felt this was a very important issue. The institutions need to be properly financed in that very small number of cases where children are taken into the care of the State. We have to ensure the care of the State is appropriate and better but, tragically, there is a tiny number of cases where the family is not the best place.

Let us have a discussion and publicity and let us not inhibit discussion on this matter. As I said, I am sure many of my colleagues would take the advantage of this apparent setback. Get out into Merrion Square, St. Stephen's Green or Parnell Square and let us all show the flag and appeal to our friends, family and constituents to come out with a resounding answer, whichever it is, in favour of the children of this country.

I agree with Senator Norris. I do not think it is an abuse of position for a photograph to be taken of Oireachtas Members in support of this referendum. All Oireachtas Members should be showing leadership on this very important issue. It affects a very small number of people but we are trying to effect an important change to the Constitution and it is important the maximum number of people vote "Yes" on 10 November.

The Minister for Health has been frustrated on the issue of the new children's hospital for the past six months and I understand that a decision will be made in the next two weeks.

Is the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade not making that decision now?

It is important that once the decision is taken, every step is put in place immediately to expedite the planning process and the development and completion of the project. It is important that the Minister comes to the House at the earliest date once a decision is taken to set out how his Department proposes to deal with expediting the construction and development of the project because it is vital for the children of this country and it is vital that it is dealt with as soon as possible.

I welcome the fact that the German statement last weekend had positive implications from an Irish perspective but the game changer predicted last June has not materialised. The celebratory tone and action of the past number of days has not been reasonable in the context of considering our position on this issue. The Taoiseach and his Ministers need to go to their counterparts in Brussels and come back with a deal because it is not good enough to expect people in mortgage arrears, those who are contemplating cuts to their home help hours and those who are contemplating how long they will have to wait for a medical procedure to go there and say, "We're special". "We're special" does not pay the bills, reduce the debt or give any cognisance to the fact that the people of Ireland fronted up and saved the euro. The German Government needs to be told in no uncertain terms-----

Has the Senator a question for the Acting Leader?

The Taoiseach might take time out of his busy schedule to come to the House to tell us what are his plans to tackle this issue because rhetoric is all we have had over the past number of months. A statement by the German, Finnish and Dutch finance Ministers cast doubt on the so-called game changer of last June and then we had an announcement at the weekend that we are special. To say that "We're special" does not pay the bills.

It is an acknowledgement.

To say that "We're special" will do nothing for the mortgage issues in this country.

Nothing starts without first acknowledging the problem.

To say that "We're special" will not prevent anybody from having their home help hours cut. They are the realities. To say that "We're special" does not cut the mustard, it is not good enough. Government Members can take their celebratory tone back to the Taoiseach and tell him the people of Ireland will no longer put up with this rhetoric.

There is no celebratory tone. This is about solving a problem.

By interrupting, Senator Healy Eames is prolonging Senator MacSharry's contribution.

We want to see some action, finally. Other Senators can shout at me as long as they want but because I am here longer than them, I can stand longer than them and I can shout louder than them. To say that "We're special" does not cut it any more. Let us see some real action rather than this week-on-week rhetoric from the Taoiseach and others.

The jealousy is unreal. I am disappointed.

By interrupting, Senator MacSharry, Senator Healy Eames gave him another minute.

I support Senator Darragh O'Brien's call for a debate on the cuts to home help services. We have made representations on this matter. As well as debating the issue of cutting the hours of care given to vulnerable people, we should debate the effect on the home help workers. They are the only HSE workers who are not being given their contracted hours. Their livelihood is being cut to ribbons and this should be debated. The acting Leader will say the Minister will come to the House on a certain date but when he or she attends it is usually to take a Bill or to address a specific issue and we cannot raise the issues we need to raise. I call for statements with the Minister for Health during which we can raise a number of issues about which we have concerns. In particular, I would like to raise the issue of the HSE rule to have paramedics and ambulance drivers working 12-hour shifts following which they must remain on call for another 12 hours. We had evidence of how dangerous that is when an ambulance driver fell asleep at the wheel in Castletownbere recently having worked continuously for 22 hours.

In Castletownbere, a week ago or so, an ambulance driver fell asleep at the wheel after having worked continuously for 22 hours. It is not good enough and people cannot work that long. I would like the Minister to address the issue.

I refer to comments on the McKenna judgment. While I agree the principle of fairness established in that judgment should be adhered to, that it is stifling debate is of concern. There are no two ways about it. Everyone feels relaxed about the potential result of the referendum because there is much support for it but it is important the matter is discussed and debated on the national airwaves and in the media. The relevant point is that the McKenna judgment is the purported reason debate is not occurring. No one is trying to use the McKenna judgment to suggest taxpayers' money should be used to advocate the "Yes" side more so than the "No" side but the McKenna judgment warrants discussion in the House. In this instance, because the referendum has so much support, the judgment is stifling debate.

There was hysteria regarding matters in Europe over the weekend and if matters had not been clarified in recent hours, Opposition Members would be the first on their feet to tell us how bad things are and how desperate it is that certain statements were made by the Chancellor of Germany. These negotiations are ongoing and nothing has been decided. Work is being done on the issue in Europe in a serious way and we need national unity on the matter. The game playing over the weekend highlights the fact that certain people in the media-----

Does the Senator have a question?

The Senator can speak for himself.

The Senator should conclude without interruption.

I was just about to conclude, which proves the point of the Leas-Cathaoirleach. National unity is required, no one is coming in here to celebrate anything, nothing has been decided and matters are very much on the table. The more support we have from around the House, the better.

Senator Noone has our support.

I refer to the most important issue facing the country, namely, the unsustainable levels of debt. Much has been made about the joint communiqué issued by the Taoiseach and Chancellor Merkel in which she describes Ireland as a special case. What constitutes Ireland being a special case? The reason we are so described is because billions of euro of taxpayers' money has been put into toxic banks. I am disappointed there is still fudge. We are 20 months on from the general election and we are no closer to a deal, despite the joint communiqué.

Nowhere in the communiqué does it say it will deal with legacy debts. Having photographs of the kissing cousins, the Taoiseach and the Chancellor, will not bring about any deal. I want to hear from the lips of Chancellor Merkel that the deal will involve dealing with legacy debts of this country. Unless it is said clearly and explicitly, we have no deal.

We all want to see a deal for the people of this country but 20 months have passed since the general election. Mention has been made of game playing. The Taoiseach and the Tánaiste hyped up the deal done last year and oversold it as a game changer, which it was not. They want us to go along with the pathetic attempt to talk up a deal, which is not in place, and to support them when we do not have a deal. That is the politics and game playing being played out in Europe, where they get the Chancellor to issue a communiqué that says nothing other than that Ireland is a special case. We want a deal and we want clear, unambiguous words that say simply that Ireland's legacy debt will be dealt with. We want to hear that from Chancellor Merkel.

What we need are not communiques and photographs of people kissing each other, but a deal that separates the sovereign debt from the banking debt. I doubt that the people of Ireland will put up with less than that. All we are getting at present is more fudge and nonsense from the Government.

Unlike Senator MacSharry and as a single woman, I would be delighted to have anybody call me special at the moment.

Take it as read.

I fully support ensuring that each of my constituents has access to the workforce and that boundaries and barriers to work are eliminated by the Government. However, to achieve anything of significance in this regard, we must rectify the delay in applicants receiving Garda clearance. While I acknowledge and understand that An Garda Síochána is providing a great service in ensuring there is a process of quality control, it is of the utmost importance that nothing comes between those who want to work and work itself. The fact that people are waiting months to get their clearance is a major barrier to entry into the workforce.

In my home town of Athenry at present, there are 63 students studying child care, health care, nursing and social studies in a post-leaving certificate, PLC, course in Athenry vocational school. These students were expected to undertake work experience a number of weeks ago as part of their course, but I have learned they cannot do so because they have yet to receive Garda clearance. This means they are being delayed significantly in completing their course and subsequently entering the marketplace to seek work.

This is a terrible indictment of the processes in Ireland and serves only to deter and discourage people from entering the workforce. We must be mindful that these students are 18 or 19 years of age and are the people we need to help us rebuild Ireland. They have stayed here and have not emigrated. They want to get work in the local economy. In a town where there are more than 30 commercial units lying empty, any verve and enthusiasm must be welcome. I am requesting, in the national interest, that the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, come to the House to outline what steps he is willing to take to ensure that these delays will be abated, if not extinguished.

On 10 July last, in reply to a question in the House from my colleague, Senator Darragh O'Brien, the Taoiseach admitted for the first time that the Fianna Fáil-led Government had no option but to enter into the bank guarantee scheme. I am glad the Taoiseach repeated that on television yesterday. It should be put on the record that the question was first raised in this House by Senator Darragh O'Brien.

I join Senator Clune in welcoming the independent report on the JobBridge programme. I have first hand experience of the programme and it is working. I wish it continued success.

I also join colleagues in sounding a word of caution about the amount of drugs being sold over the Internet and arriving in this country via our postal service. I and other colleagues in the Seanad such as Senator Healy Eames, Senator Norris, former Senator Joe O'Toole and colleagues in the Lower House, worked hard to ensure that legislation was introduced on an emergency basis to close the head shops.

The drugs that were sold in those head shops are now being sold from the backs of cars and in side streets. The local Garda drugs units do not have the funding to go after these individuals who, despite the legislation, continue to make money and cause serious illness for a large number of people throughout the country. I again call for a debate on the funding provided to the Department of Justice and Equality for the local drugs units and ask that the newly-appointed Minister of State with responsibility for the drugs strategy, Deputy Alex White, be invited to the House to discuss it. It is an important issue that must be pursued.

I join my colleague, Senator Reilly, in calling for the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine to be invited to the House to discuss the future of the poultry industry in light of the news 90 workers in Cootehill, County Cavan, received today. The Co-operative Poultry Products factory in Cootehill has gone into receivership. I am aware negotiations are under way to try to save as many jobs as possible. I also ask the Deputy Leader to invite the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, to the House as a matter of urgency.

Almost two weeks ago to the day, Olhausen meat producers closed two of its factories in Dublin and one in Lough Egish, County Monaghan, with the loss of 30 jobs at the County Monaghan factory and a further potential 90 jobs at risk. I call on the Leader to invite the Minister to this House as a matter of urgency to debate this issue.

I, too, offer my sympathies to the families bereaved at the weekend. It is always good to have discussion and discourse on road safety issues. One death is one too many.

I wish to reignite a discussion which took place here last year, namely, whether the clock should go back one hour this weekend. There is considerable research which shows that there are fewer accidents in the morning than in the evening, that people are more alert in the morning than in the evening and that there are far more pedestrians about in the evening time than in the morning. Therefore, I call on the Leader to update the House on what progress is being made by the Minister for Foreign Affairs on this issue at international level. Perhaps we could make some headway on this issue during Ireland's Presidency of the EU during the first six months of next year. I accept there is a need for international agreement in this regard. However, road safety issues are paramount. I believe lives would be saved if this simple action were taken.

I commend the Taoiseach and Minister for Finance on their efforts in what is a diplomatic war abroad to ensure that legacy debt is dealt with. It must be remembered that we have a population of only 3 million people.

Senator Conway needs to catch up. We have a population of more than 3 million people.

We cannot allow a situation whereby the tail wags the dog. In fairness to the Taoiseach and Ministers for Finance and Foreign Affairs and Trade, they have restored our reputation in Europe. We will now get a deal on bank debt because we are respected abroad, in particular in Europe. It speaks volumes that Chancellor Merkel was on the telephone with the Taoiseach for half an hour on Sunday evening and that President Hollande met the Taoiseach in the Elysee Palace yesterday.

That was a previously arranged meeting.

That spokes volumes.

Senator Conway's time has expired.

The Taoiseach is choreographing this properly and correctly. We will get a deal on bank debt, in spite of the misgivings some may have in that regard.

I am convinced now that Senator Conway has said it that we will get a deal. I can sleep well. We need Senator Conway in Europe.

I call the Deputy Leader to respond, please.

Senator O'Brien raised a number of issues, as did a number of other Senators. Senator O'Brien first asked about the Seanad taking on the role of scrutiny of EU legislation. I am told the Leader obtained a reply on this matter, which has been previously raised in this House, from the Ceann Comhairle. The issue will be discussed at the group leaders meeting tomorrow at 10 a.m.

Senator O'Brien also called again today for a debate on perinatal care. The Leader has followed up on that matter. While I do not have a date for such debate, I understand the Leader has already committed on the Order of Business to providing time for it.

On mortgage resolution measures, Second Stage of the Personal Insolvency Bill 2012 will be taken on 21 November next. This legislation is part of the Government's response to the critical issue of mortgage arrears, which we are all agreed is one of the biggest challenges facing Ireland. The Government has outlined a five-part response to this issue, part of which is rebalancing personal insolvency legislation to strike a fairer balance between debtors and creditors. Another part is challenging the banks to live up to their responsibilities, which is the issue specifically raised by the Senator. I understand that lenders have submitted to the Central Bank the options they propose to address the problem of distressed mortgages. These include split mortgages, trade-down mortgages, restructuring of mortgage payments and forbearance. These options will be rolled out in a measured way so as to ensure the banks have sufficient operational capacity to implement them. It is an ongoing process.

Senator O'Brien also raised the issue of home helps. I have raised this issue with Labour Party Ministers and have asked them to pass on my concerns directly. As stated by Senator Moloney, many of us have asked that action be taken to address the issue of home helps. The Government has made clear its commitment to supporting older people to live in dignity and independence in their own homes and communities for as long as possible.

Approximately €320 million has been invested in home help and home care packages this year. As the Senator is aware, regular reviews take place on a case-by-case basis. The Government has committed that no current recipient with an assessed need will be left without a service and the HSE has committed to continuing its partnership approach with non-profit and private companies to operate home care packages and ensure services meet the preferred wishes of many vulnerable older people. We recognise this also reduces pressures elsewhere in the wider care system. We are following up on it.

Senator Clune raised the JobBridge review launched by the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Burton, which is an independent evaluation. I share the Senator's welcome for the very positive outcomes of the JobBridge programme, of which many of us have direct experience. It is very welcome. Senator Clune also raised the issue of illegal substances sold over the Internet. We might have a debate on this. It is a very serious issue. Other colleagues raised the fact that we debated this at length in the House when discussing the head shop legislation, but it is clear it needs to be reviewed.

Senator Whelan spoke about the two very brave journalists, Paul Kimmage and David Walsh, who exposed the extent of doping in cycling and faced various repercussions for this. We all agree with the Senator in commending them and on the need for robust media. He raised the legislation on media ownership which has been promised. I checked on this and I am told it is unlikely it will be introduced in this session due to the volume of other legislation on the priority list. It is something for which we need to keep pressing.

Senator Mullen raised the issue of perinatal care to which I have already responded. He asked for a debate on the McKenna judgment in the context of the children's rights referendum. It would be good to have a debate on this. Other colleagues raised it also. Perhaps after the referendum we could discuss it. It is noteworthy the Oireachtas communications unit responded very quickly to concerns raised about staff support for a photocall, which I understand was the issue. It was not a question of the involvement of Oireachtas Members, as we are all entitled to take part in photocalls. The idea by Senator Norris to have a bigger photocall was excellent. The issue was about staff support.

Senator Mullen also raised the issue of the survey for transformation of patronage and Senator Jim D'Arcy also referred to this. I commend the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, for rolling out this initiative on transformation of patronage. Let us not forget it was an initiative begun by Archbishop Diarmuid Martin in recognising explicitly the fact that having 93% of primary schools in Catholic ownership and control no longer reflects the reality of a changing population. The last census showed 84% of people declared themselves as Catholic, so clearly there is a disconnection. The Archbishop has recognised this and it is on foot of this the Department of Education and Skills and the Minister, Deputy Quinn, are rolling out a proposal for transformation of patronage which will involve surveying parents in a democratic manner to ensure their school provision requirements are met. As someone very closely involved with a local start-up group for a multidenominational school I know the extent of demand that exists for changing patronage.

Senator Jim D'Arcy also raised the issue of a chapter devoted to Senator Leyden in Mary O'Rourke's book. Senator Norris sought recognition of his own book. If he had devoted an entire chapter to Senator Leyden he would have received the same reference from Senator D'Arcy. There is a lesson for us all in this.

I do not like the title of Senator Norris's book, by the way.

Perhaps I have said enough about colleagues' books.

Senator Reilly raised the very sad news of the 90 jobs lost in a poultry factory in Cavan and the questions about the viability of the sector. The Minister for Enterprise, Jobs and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, will come to the House on 23 November for a debate on jobs and it is something that should be raised with him then. The agrifood issues might also be raised in a matter on the Adjournment for the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney. He has come to the House to discuss agrifood issues previously and we can arrange for him to do so again.

Senator Healy Eames was one of many Senators who expressed condolences to the families of the road traffic victims at the weekend, particularly the Gilmore family. We all share in this. It is an unthinkable, horrific tragedy. It is a good idea to have a debate on road safety. Senator Healy Eames also raised the prospects for an Irish bank deal and the very fast-moving comments made at the weekend. This was also raised by many other colleagues. It is unfortunate if people in the Opposition appeared to show glee at the apparent setback after Chancellor Merkel's original comment at the end of last week.

Appearing to show glee at that setback is misplaced. It is very welcome that we have seen a turnaround since then. The Taoiseach said that he had a very good conversation with Chancellor Merkel on Sunday evening during which she registered a very genuine appreciation of the steps the Irish people are taking to turn around the economic situation and her full support for the efforts we are making to get back to the markets. That support is well expressed in the joint statement - a most unusual joint statement after a European Council meeting - issued after the conversation. The statement makes it clear that the commitments made to Ireland at the end of June stand and this vital work will be taken forward by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, and his colleagues in the European group. The Chancellor was also pleased to put on record her recognition that Ireland is a special case. I noticed gibes and jokes from the other side about that. Senator Higgins rightly pointed out that it is quite positive to be referred to as a special case in this context and we should all welcome it because it certainly signifies ongoing support for the bank deal both sides hope will be concluded. It is also noteworthy that the Taoiseach had an excellent meeting with President Hollande in Paris in which the latter made clear his support for the Irish case. Indeed, it has been made very clear all along that it is also supported by Italy and Spain, so it is an ongoing issue.

Senator Leyden requested that the Tánaiste come to the House to discuss Syria and Lebanon. We had a recent debate with the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Costello, who spoke specifically about that and we can certainly arrange it again. I join Senator Leyden in offering condolences on the death of the former Palestinian ambassador. I did not know about that. I met him and I share the Senator's appreciation of him.

I dealt with the issue raised by Senator Mullen in respect of road safety and ongoing diplomatic efforts to get a deal that refers to legacy debt.

Senator Moran referred to a particular issue in County Louth on which I do not propose to comment. I do not know the issue. The Senator asked for the Minister of Health to come to the House and I can certainly check with the Leader about that. I know the Minister will be in the House tomorrow to deal with the Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill, but I know the Senator wants him to come to the House to discuss the Neary issue and Patient Focus. Again, it might be a suitable matter to raise on the Adjournment.

Senator Norris expressed support for the idea of a larger photo call involving a larger number of Oireachtas Members. A Senators' photo call on a cross-party basis might be a good idea. I do not think there would be any difficulty under the McKenna judgement in respect of having that. I share Senator Norris's view that the problem is likely to be low turnout. We must confront that and develop and generate a debate to ensure the turnout is high on 10 November.

Senator Colm Burke spoke about the national children's hospital. I understand the report of the group chaired by Dr. Frank Dolphin was presented to the Minister for Health on Friday, 8 June and he has been considering it and intends to bring it to Cabinet shortly. I think we all agree on the need to ensure a speedy resolution to the process to build a national children's hospital.

Senator MacSharry raised the issue of the diplomatic efforts about which we spoke and specifically sought a debate in this House. The Minister of State for European Affairs, Deputy Creighton, will attend the House on Thursday after the Order of Business for statements following the European Council meeting and this is the appropriate time in which to raise these issues.

Senator Moloney raised the issue of home helps, which I have dealt with, and the issue of the HSE rule on paramedics, which I agree is of major concern and could lead to some very dangerous situations. When we have a wide-ranging debate on health, it should certainly be raised with the Minister and indeed could be raised directly with him by way of communication.

Senator Noone looked for a debate on the McKenna judgement, which is a good idea.

Senator Cullinane spoke about unsustainable debt levels and the EU deal. These are difficult and complex negotiations which are ongoing but all of us on both sides of the House want to see a deal concluded.

Senator Higgins raised a specific issue relating to students in Athenry. I have sympathy for the situation the students are in where they are experiencing delays in Garda vetting procedures. This issue might be raised by way of a matter on the Adjournment.

Senator Wilson welcomed the JobBridge report, about which we have spoken, and raised the issue of the sale of drugs over the Internet. We may have a debate on that issue. The Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy White, was in the House last week and I am sure he would be willing to come back to discuss that issue.

In respect of the agrifood issue, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, will attend the House in the 23 November.

Senator Conway raised the issue of the clock going back, on which, as he knows, the Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality has had hearings. We must certainly check progress in respect of that. A change is under contemplation. He also commended the Taoiseach on the choreography of the ongoing diplomatic efforts to ensure a bank deal.

I am conscious that many Members left the House and were not here for the Leader's response. I responded courteously to every single person, regardless of whether they were here or not, but I know the Leader expressed concern to me very recently about the practice of making a statement and leaving the House on the Order of Business. I think he will reinstitute a practice of not responding to colleagues who have left the House before his response.

Order of Business agreed to.
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