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Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 23 Oct 2012

Vol. 218 No. 2

Adjournment Matters

Death Certificates Issues

The Minister of State is very welcome and I greatly admire him, as he knows, but he is the wrong Minister for this topic. I wanted to ask the Minister for Social Protection to outline the progress and the next steps to amending the Civil Registration Act to enable the registration of deaths of Irish people who die abroad. I have raised the topic with the Minister and, since then, she asked me to meet with the Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages. I did so and he promised me a memo would come to Government.

I will explain the problem. Young people go on holiday on student visas to the US and sometimes deaths occur abroad. Two young people died abroad two years ago and one parent spearheaded this major campaign entitled Bring Them Home. It is now a Facebook campaign with 4,200 people seeking the registration of Irish people who, sadly and tragically, died abroad while on holiday or on a student visa. The Minister is faced with a dilemma. How long should they be out of the country before we register their deaths abroad?

Currently, this only happens in exceptional cases, namely, if the person is a member of the Defence Forces, Naval Service or Army. I am speaking today about people who die abroad and whose families want their deaths registered in Ireland. I am not sure if the Minister of State is aware of this but as things stand if he or I died abroad our death would not be registered in Ireland even though this is our country of residence, which is incredible. Our passports would remain live and for all intents and purposes here we would be alive because our death would have only been registered where it occurred, with the death certificate available for use in Ireland for administrative purposes, if necessary. However, one's passport could be misused, although that is not my motivation for raising this issue. My motivation is the genuine desire of families to have the death abroad of their Irish citizen child, brother, sister, husband or wife, registered in Ireland.

This matter was the subject of discussion at the Joint Committee on Education and Social Protection during the last term and has also been discussed in this House. I hope that the Minister of State, Deputy McGinley, has some good news in terms of when the Minister proposes to address this issue. I received a letter from the Minister on 15 October which states:

Any broadening of the current provisions requires careful consideration given the number of people who live and die in other countries and who have, or are entitled to have, Irish citizenship. This issue is currently being considered by my Department, along with a number of other proposed amendments to the Civil Registration Act.

The Minister states that she intends to introduce legislation early in 2013. I am imploring that this issue be addressed in that Bill. Perhaps the Minister of State will say if cost is a consideration in this regard. I believe all of the families with whom I have met, to whom it matters so much to have their loved one's death registered in the country where they were born, would be willing to pay €100 for such a death certificate. I should point out that my understanding of this issue comes from families in Galway.

I thank the Senator for raising this issue. I understand that the death of a loved one abroad is particularly difficult for families involved. This issue, along with a number of other proposed amendments to the Civil Registration Act 2004, is currently being closely considered in the Department of Social Protection. In this regard it is hoped that legislation will be introduced in 2013.

Under the provisions and procedures governing the registration of deaths in Ireland, which are contained in Part 5 of the Civil Registration Act 2004, where a death occurs in the State it is the duty of a qualified informant, normally a relative of the deceased, to attend at a registrar's office and register the death on foot of a certificate of cause of death supplied by a registered medical practitioner. Where a death is referred to a coroner, it is registered by a registrar on foot of a coroner's certificate.

In general, only deaths which occur within the State can be registered. However, section 39 of the Act provides for the following exceptions: the death of an Irish citizen on board a foreign ship or a foreign aircraft travelling to or from a port, or an airport, as the case may be, in the State; the death of a person on board an Irish aircraft or an Irish ship; and the death of a member of the Garda Síochána or the Permanent Defence Force or of the spouse or specified members of the family of such a member outside the State while the member is serving outside the State as such member.

Section 38 of the Act makes provision for the registration of a death of an Irish citizen domiciled in the State in certain specific circumstances. Where the death of an Irish citizen domiciled in the State occurs abroad, the death may be registered here if there was not at the time of the death a system of registration of deaths in the place where the death occurred, or such a system that applied to such a death, or it is not possible to obtain copies of or extracts from civil records of the death, namely, a death certificate. In other words, if the death could not be registered or if a death certificate could not be obtained, the death can be registered here. Although the number of such cases is extremely small it is considered reasonable to make provision for them. The reasoning behind these provisions is simply to ensure that where deaths cannot be registered abroad, they can be registered here and that in all cases the relatives of the deceased have available to them a certificate of the death for personal, legal and administrative purposes.

Usually, when an Irish citizen dies abroad, the death is registered by the civil authorities in the place where the death occurred and a certified copy of the death registration is obtainable. This certificate, translated if necessary, is normally sufficient for all legal and administrative purposes here and for these reasons alone there is no necessity for the death to be registered in the State. Any broadening of the current provisions will require careful consideration. It will be appreciated that the number of people who live and die in other countries and who have or are entitled to Irish citizenship is very large. This would have implications for the registration process and for the vital statistics relating to deaths which are derived from registered events.

The number of Irish citizens who are domiciled in Ireland and who die abroad is relatively small in the context of total deaths occurring here in any given year. However, I am acutely conscious that each figure represents a tragedy and because the deaths take place away from home it is an additional heartache for the family. As I have said already, a death certificate is readily available in the overwhelming majority of these cases. However, I do appreciate that many families of the deceased strongly believe that registration here of the death, would give recognition of the death in the person's country, which would also assist during a period of considerable grief. I am aware that the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Education and Social Protection has recommended amendment of the current legislation to enable deaths of Irish citizens who have died abroad to be registered here.

As stated, any broadening of the current provisions requires careful consideration given the number of people who live and die in other countries and who have or are entitled to Irish citizenship. I again thank the Senator for raising this issue. The Minister hopes to bring forward legislation in this regard in 2013.

I thank the Minister of State for his reply. It is great to hear that legislation will be introduced in 2013. I take this opportunity to acknowledge the persistence of Mrs Yvonne O'Reilly, her husband and children, from Galway in pursuing this matter. Mrs. O'Reilly whose first born child, a son, died abroad is a champion for many others in terms of seeking to have her son's death recognised and recorded in the country of which he was a citizen. As stated by the Minister of State, this would help in the grieving process. It is amazing what can make a big difference to people. This is important not alone to Yvonne, who is the beacon of light that has championed this issue and brought it to my attention, but to the many other families who presented during the last term at the meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Education and Social Protection.

I come from an area similar to that from which Senator Healy Eames comes. Many of my constituents have also lost their lives abroad, some in tragic circumstances. I understand the grief of such families and what solace it would be to them to have the death of their loved ones registered in their native country, as proposed by the Senator. I will pass on the Senator's views to the Minister for consideration.

Domiciliary Care Allowance Eligibility

The best way of setting the tone in terms of this issue is by way of example. I have recently come across a number of cases involving applications for domiciliary care allowance, in respect, primarily, of young children with intellectual disabilities. One case involves a young child of four and a half years who is in nappies, cannot talk and struggles to walk and has been clinical diagnosed by a qualified clinical psychologist-occupational therapist as having autism, among a number of other challenges.

An application form with the full clinical diagnosis is sent to the Department on behalf of the child who has been assessed by all of these highly-qualified and highly-trained medical professionals in the HSE. However, a medical assessor in the Department makes a decision, without ever seeing the child or consulting with the therapists or the child's parents, that the child does not qualify or meet the criteria for domiciliary care allowance.

I ask the Minister of State to convey my concerns about this matter. We are all aware of the lengthy delays in dealing with the applications. I question the qualifications of many of the assessors. It is important and only fair to the citizens of the country that applications are assessed by somebody appropriately qualified. I wonder whether sometimes assessments are not carried out at all by a medical practitioner of any description, but are decided upon by somebody in the Department without being forwarded for clinical assessment. It baffles me how somebody can make an adjudication on whether a child qualifies for domiciliary care allowance without actually seeing him or her. I will ask a supplementary question after I hear the Minister of State's reply.

Domiciliary care allowance is a monthly payment to the parent or guardian of a child with a disability so severe that the child requires care, attention and supervision substantially in excess of another child of the same age. The allowance is currently paid to more than 24,000 parents and guardians in respect of 26,000 children at a cost of approximately €100 million in 2011, with the accompanying respite care grant costing a further €45 million.

The Department has 22 medical assessors including the chief medical advisor and the acting deputy chief medical advisor. A further three medical assessors have recently been appointed by the Public Appointments Service and are due to commence work in the first week of November 2012, which is in a fortnight's time.

The Department's medical assessors are fully qualified and experienced practitioners who provide a second opinion to that of the person's own doctor for the guidance of deciding officers. Their assessments conform to the ethical conduct and behavioural guidelines of the Medical Council. Medical assessors are required to be medical practitioners who are on the general register of medical practitioners while holding an appointment. They must have at least six years' satisfactory experience in the practice of medicine since registration. Many of the medical assessors have specialist postgraduate qualifications. They also have special training in eligibility assessment and disability evaluation. The medical assessors are committed to continuing medical education to ensure standards are maintained and enhanced. On-going medical education is provided by national and international experts in the evaluation of disability. There are also regular meetings and seminars under the direction of the chief medical adviser where a range of medical issues and developments in the occupational medicine field are discussed.

Medical assessors are not specifically assigned to any one particular scheme and all deal with domiciliary care allowance applications. All of the medical assessors have access to the medical review and assessment case management system where they complete desk assessments of medical evidence submitted with regard to customer claims, appeals and reviews on all of the Department's disability and illness related schemes.

The answer is there - desk reviews are completed, which means one sits at a desk and decides. Given we have so few medical assessors I ask the Minister of State to ask the Minister for Social Protection to list the actual qualifications of each of the 25 assessors without naming them. I will reserve my opinion until I receive this information.

As the Senator acknowledged, a further three assessors have been appointed and are due to commence work in the next week or two and this is a step forward. I will convey to the Minister for her consideration the Senator's request for the actual qualifications of the assessors.

National Monuments

I seek an update on the transfer of Elizabeth Fort in Cork city to Cork City Council.

I thank the Senator for raising this matter. Elizabeth Fort, which I visited recently, is an Elizabethan star fort at Barrack Street in Cork city. Located close to St. Finbarr's cathedral, it is of considerable historical significance and possesses commanding views of the city and its surroundings. A functioning Garda station, known as Barrack Street Garda station, is located within the walls of the fort.

The fort has been identified by Cork City Council as being of particular relevance in developing its tourism strategy. Discussions have been ongoing between the Commissioners of Public Works and the council and it has been agreed in principle that access to the fort, and in particular to the ramparts with their magnificent views, will be made available to the council by way of licence for the purposes of opening them up to the public. A draft licence is awaited from the council and, once a licence is completed by both parties, it is understood that the council plans to run educational tours of the fort initially, as a preparatory step to opening it up more extensively.

Any proposal for a permanent transfer of ownership of the fort to the council will depend on agreement on terms and conditions between the commissioners and the council, including, in particular, the relocation of the Garda station to suitable alternative premises. It is understood that the council is formulating proposals in this regard for submission to the Office of Public Works.

I thank the Minister of State for his reply and for all his work in the OPW on this and other issues. I know of his passion with regard to Daniel O'Connell in Kerry has helped enormously in Derrynane and Caherdaniel. We look forward to welcoming him back to Kerry again.

I thank the Senator for his very kind remarks. The OPW is keen to move this issue on. Significant public investment was made in the ramparts some years ago by the OPW and of late people have not had an opportunity to see the views of Cork. I have taken a particular interest in this. Given the fact that we do not have the money to have tour guides there I am more than happy for Cork City Council to do so if we come to an agreement on the licence. I am grateful for the opportunity to state publicly in the House that once work on this licence has been completed by both parties we will be able to move into a more constructive phase when the city council can take guarded ownership of the site and use it for its tourism potential.

Bank Branch Closures

I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House. I am glad to see him here because I know he takes the matters we raise here seriously and will address them to the best of his ability. Where will I start with regard to AIB? It is in State ownership but not under State control because the same people are still running it in their own image and likeness and doing what they see fit with scant regard for the public interest or for the interest of their loyal and long-standing customers. The manner in which the bank is not dealing with mortgage arrears has been well rehearsed and I will not go into it this evening. It leaves much to be desired to say the least. Regardless of what the bank says, it is certainly not being supportive of small businesses or making credit available to them.

As the Minister of State is aware, to add insult to injury, we face the imminent closure of AIB branches in 56 towns around the country. This is a further blow to the self-employed and the small businesses in these communities.

I accept that the Minister of State, the Minister for Finance and the Government cannot micro-manage every decision and start running AIB. God knows, it has enough executives to do that. At the same time, we must bring some influence, common sense and reason to bear on the matter. One of the bank branches due for closure this week is in Portarlington, which has a population of 8,000 according to the current census. That could not be considered a small town by any stretch of the imagination, in fact, it is one of the fastest growing towns in the country.

I may appear to be coming to this issue very late in the day but it was not something with which I wanted to trouble the Department of Finance and the Minister of State. We tried to exhaust every possible avenue with AIB management at area, regional and national level with the director of regional banking. However, we were stonewalled at every attempt to even get AIB to consider deferring the decision until after Christmas. We asked AIB to consider postponing the decision so its socio-economic impact, the question of whether there were any viable alternatives and what arrangements AIB would put in place for their long-standing customers could be considered, without prejudice to the commercial nature of the decisions AIB was making with regard to the closures and rationalisation that may be required within its operations. Hundreds of businesses will not only be discommoded but put at serious risk.

AIB contends that An Post will make facilities available but there are serious limitations and restrictions on the amount of cash An Post can handle. I am not happy that sufficient alternative arrangements have been put in place by AIB with An Post and I do not believe An Post is capable of coping with the additional business. In many of the post offices about which we are talking, there are already queues out the door so I cannot understand how anyone is expected to do business there with their business account.

I will conclude with my primary question. I do not want to be alarmist or create problems that are not there but I believe the withdrawal by AIB of night safe facilities in Portarlington and forcing business customers to drive to towns like Port Laoise and Tullamore for cash transactions will pose a security risk for these businesses at a time when Garda resources in these towns are already stretched to their limits. I implore the Minister of Finance and Government to intervene even at this late juncture, for common sense to prevail and for the safety and security issues of this decision to be put into the melting pot as part of the process so some time is bought until these factors are considered.

Could I put on the record of the House the official reply so that we might have an exchange of questions if it is of some use because I am well aware of this issue? I have already dealt with it in this House in connection with County Kerry and in the other House in connection with one or two other areas. I understand the Senator's frustration as a representative of the people given the dramatic announcements made by AIB in July of this year.

As the Deputy will be aware, and notwithstanding the fact that the State is a significant shareholder in AIB, the Government must ensure that the bank is run on a commercial, cost-effective and independent basis to ensure the value of the bank as an asset to the State, as per the memorandum on economic and financial policies agreed with the EU Commission, the European Central Bank and the IMF. A relationship framework has been specified that defines the nature of the relationship between the Minister for Finance and the bank, in this case AIB. This framework stipulates that the Minister has no role in the commercial decisions of the bank, with these decisions remaining the responsibility of the board and management of the institution.

As the Government has stated previously, the Senator will appreciate that it is an inevitable but unfortunate consequence of the necessary restructuring of the banking system - and return to viability of the sector - that branches in certain towns and villages across the country will be closed. The Government appreciates that the branch closures will have an impact on certain towns and villages but the Department has been informed by AIB that the bank is working very closely with its customers to ensure that the disruption is minimised and to provide a range of alternative banking options, such as use of local post offices and mobile banking facilities to affected customers.

As part of AIB's restructuring plan to return the bank to profitability and reduce dependence on State support, significant cost reductions are required over the coming years. In this regard, AIB announced its branch rationalisation programme in July 2012. The bank's branch overhaul will include a combination of six amalgamations, 16 full branch closures and 45 sub-office closures across the country. In total, 67 locations will be impacted, equating to about 27% of AIB's branch network. It is worth noting that AIB will still have about 200 branches in Ireland post-rationalisation coupled with an additional 80 EBS outlets. Nevertheless, to mitigate the impact of the branch closures on customers, AIB intends to strengthen its long-standing relationship with An Post and, at the same time, is also launching a new mobile bank service to provide certain banking services to customers in remote locations. The mobile service will allow customers to make lodgements and withdrawals, to pay bills and to order foreign exchange.

At the moment, AIB banking services are available in over 1,100 An Post outlets nationwide. The current services at any An Post outlet allow AIB customers to make cash lodgments for personal and business customers, avail of cash withdrawals up to €600 per day, pay their credit cards bills and use any of An Post's own branded services, including bill payments, postal drafts and foreign currency. In addition, AIB plans to build on this successful relationship with An Post and has arranged for additional banking facilities to be available in over 90 selected outlets. AIB and An Post management are working closely together at local, regional and national level to ensure the successful launch of this enhanced service and An Post staff will be fully trained to offer this new service in advance of the branch closure dates. As part of the closure process, the bank is also engaging extensively with customers, businesses and community groups in affected areas to ensure there is an adequate understanding about the rationalisation process and is endeavouring to keep all stakeholders fully informed to minimise any inconvenience. Clearly, it is not succeeding in that regard if what the Senator is telling me is the case, despite the paragraph I have just read to the House.

In respect of Portarlington, I am informed that customers of AIB are co-operating with An Post to ensure the provision of enhanced banking services at post offices in Monasterevin, Rathangan and Kildare. Furthermore, following the closure programme, there will be AIB branches within about 11 miles of Portarlington. On the issue of security, I understand that AIB have a dedicated SME cash management team available to meet with business customers and discuss their cash management requirements and the alternative services available including merchant terminals, CIT services and night safes.

I readily concede that it is not perfect but there is an inevitability surrounding the Government's decision to support the new pillar bank structure. Following our election to Government in March 2011, we said we would radically restructure the banks. An inevitable outcome of this requires that the banks become smaller, leaner and meaner in the sense of their operation and that they cut down radically on their cost basis. I am reliably informed that only one in ten transactions are now completed by customers in branches so the great majority of people are moving to online services. That is another inevitable development of the commercial banking system. It seems that despite the decision take in July 2012, AIB management clearly has a lot of work to do in persuading customers in these locations that the service that will be left either through An Post or elsewhere will meet the standard that is there.

As I said in my initial reply to the Senator, and I am sure he appreciates this, we are prohibited as a Government from directly intervening in the day-to-day management of the bank. It is strictly prohibited despite the fact that we on behalf of the people own the bank.

We cannot direct it to take steps in the manner that the Senator might suggest. Our task is to use persuasion in this House. If a better-configured service can emerge from these discussions, so be it. It is inevitable, however, that there will be branch closures when major restructuring exercises take place. I very much hope a much better job will be done by the bank in communicating this to its customers. There are customers who have been loyal for many years, and they did not get the banks into the trouble that required the State's bailout. The banks clearly need to up their game in that regard.

I fully realise that the Minister of State's hands are tied and I know he would do his utmost to address this matter if he could. While Allied Irish Bank may be getting leaner, it is certainly getting meaner. Its lack of ability to engage with its customers in this case must be noted. I am baffled as to how it could be economically and commercially viable to close a bank branch in Portarlington, which has a population of 8,000. I assure the Minister of State that the alternative provisions the bank is saying it is making available nearby in Monasterevin and Kildare represent an appalling effort.

Many of the business owners in Portarlington, in particular, are considering moving their business and accounts en masse, lock, stock and barrel, to an alternative bank. I would not blame them for doing so. I hope the bank will at least have the courtesy to engage with its customers on the very serious security and safety issues associated with cash transfer the lack of night-safe facilities. Those concerned admit they will have to drive 20 km to AIB branches elsewhere. I hope this does not expose any businesspeople to a security risk or place additional strain on the local post offices. I thank the Minister of State for his concern and the decency of his reply.

The Senator is rightly using his time in this House to articulate the concerns of people in this area. He is also setting down a very strong marker for the bank in respect of what may occur following the rationalisation decision. He is fully within his rights to raise this matter publicly on the floor of this House. I would like to believe that, following this exchange, the bank will, at the very minimum, respond to the Senator on his clear reservations about its decision and set out in a concrete way the reasons it is closing the branch in question. I would like to believe it will meet the Senator not only to explain its position but also to assuage him regarding the concerns he has raised publicly.

We need a totally new banking culture in this country, not only in terms of lending decisions but also in terms of knowledge of local communities. Bank personnel ought to understand what represents a good or bad risk in their communities. We need a new culture of respect for and engagement with communities. I refer to the very communities that have been loyal supporters of the banks over many years and which did not put the banks into the appalling circumstances in which they now are and from which the State had to bail them out. I very much hope the senior management of the bank will respond to the Senator to assuage his concerns and set out in clear, concrete terms the rationale for its decision and the result of its cost-benefit analysis. If the bank cannot do so, it will lose business, as the Senator stated. This would be to the detriment of its interests, profitability and viability in the long run. I thank the Senator for raising this matter.

The Seanad adjourned at 6.25 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 24 October 2012.
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