I welcome the Minister. The section deals with the dissolution of the Civil Defence Board. We agreed it makes sense, as it logical, but it is important to recognise the role board members have played. They have served well in a voluntary capacity. The board has done fantastic work around the country in difficult circumstances at short notice, for example, dealing with flooding or attending major events, etc. Although I welcome the dissolution of the board, it is important to recognise the contribution made by the board members over the years. I am sure the Minister of State will agree.
Civil Defence Bill 2012: Committee and Remaining Stages
Sections 1 and 2 agreed to.
SECTION 3
Question proposed: "That section 3 stand part of the Bill."
The point is well made by the Senator. On Second Stage, we paid tribute to these people for the great work they did over the years. While I welcome the Bill and understand the need for it in the times we are in, I pay tribute to those who served over the years on the board and all those who have served in Civil Defence and continue to do so.
I thank both Senators for their comments. I recognise the great work and contribution the board has made over the years. I assure the Senators, as I did on Second Stage, that there will be no change to the organisation other than the dissolution of the board and moving the organisation under the remit of the Department of Defence. The Minister for Defence, departmental officials and I recognise the great work the board members has carried out. Their future contribution will be very much appreciated.
Question put and agreed to.
Section 4 agreed to.
SECTION 5
Question proposed: "That section 5 stand part of the Bill."
The section deals with the transfer of land and other property to the Minister. While Sinn Féin agrees in principle with the transfer back under the aegis of the Department of the role of the Civil Defence Board, there should be no diminution of the resources available, including staffing. It is important, because much of the work is voluntary and is done in reaction to crises in many cases, that, for example, plant and machinery available to those on the ground be updated on a regular basis in order that they have the equipment they need. Given that this role will be vested in the Minister, I call on the Minister of State to reaffirm that proper resources will continue to be made available under the new set-up. If anything is surplus to requirements, we would not have an issue with redeployment within the State for the benefit of citizens but it needs to be ensured these men and women who give such wonderful service have the resources they need to their work properly, safely, efficiently and in a regionalised and localised way.
I agree with the Senator and salute the voluntarism involved. The Minister of State gave an assurance regarding the financial resources on Second Stage in so far as is possible.
I support my two colleagues. It is important that Civil Defence continues to be adequately and properly resourced and I very welcome the fact that the Minister of State said that, despite the dissolution of the board, there will be no change to the status of the organisation. I pay tribute to the invaluable work its members do in the community throughout the year. They come into their own in crises. During the terrible flooding in my home town, Ballinasloe, in 2008, they were responsible for ensuring there was no loss of life and damage to property to individuals was minimised. This organisation is much admired and cherished in all our communities and I very much welcome the Minister of State's commitment to ensure it will continue to play a valuable role in our communities and society generally long into the future.
On Second Stage last Wednesday, the Minister of State said the current budget for Civil Defence was €5.58 million. He tried to assure us that the budget would be maintained. The budget for 2013 has advanced another week-----
I apologise for interrupting but the section deals with the transfer of land and properties to the Minister of Defence. The Senator is raising a pertinent point, which is perhaps more appropriate to a later section.
I appreciate the Chair's guidance.
I raised an issue on Second Stage about the state-of-the-art property in Roscrea. It was built a number of years ago as a headquarters. I was reassured that it would remain in appropriate use. Will the Minister of State clarify what will happen to this building? Will it continue to be used for training and meetings or given the board is being dissolved, will the property have other functions?
As a Tipperaryman, I am concerned about this. One must bear in mind all the great work done from the property such as training and introductory work for new recruits.
I reassure the Senator that the premises of the Civil Defence board in Roscrea, County Tipperary, and the Phoenix Park training centre in Dublin are both provided for the board by the OPW. The board does not own any property directly; it is in the ownership of the OPW. The existing arrangement will continue. Motor vehicles have always been registered in the name of the Minister or the Department. Items of equipment that appear in the board's fixed assets register are deemed to be in the ownership of the board. Subsequent to dissolution, the property will become that of the Minister.
Question put and agreed to.
I break my own procedure in welcoming to the Visitors Gallery the young ladies from St. Aloysius's College in Carrigtwohill, whom I forgot to meet this morning.
There is a certain bias.
I rule myself out of order.
Sections 6 to 9, inclusive, agreed to.
SECTION 10
Question proposed: "That section 10 stand part of the Bill."
I thank the Minister of State for his reassurances on the issue of property and that it is a case of business as usual. As with the transfer of powers to the Minister, we hope the staff made available to Civil Defence will not be reduced in the coming years. The staff numbers appear to be comparatively small. It is important that there be an adequate number of staff to support the many volunteers in Civil Defence. I ask the Minister of State to confirm that the Minister does not intend to reduce the staffing level in the coming years.
I find myself in agreement with the Senator. I loved his use of the phrase "business as usual". Perhaps I will have to have myself checked if I am agreeing with the Senator so often. The Minister gave us an assurance on Second Stage, which I salute.
It is not my intention or that of the Department to reduce the staffing level. However, every year the Minister must converse with the Minister for Finance and we must operate within budget. In so far as it is possible, the staffing level will remain as it is.
Question put and agreed to.
Section 11 agreed to.
SECTION 12
Question proposed: "That section 12 stand part of the Bill."
It is important in this section to recognise the role local authorities have played in regard to Civil Defence plans. Dialogue at local level and local expertise are extremely important in a crisis. In this regard, Senator Michael Mullins referred to flooding. Local knowledge is key if there is a dangerous accident or a big event taking place. The centralising of functions under the Minister is welcome, but we need to maintain local expertise throughout the organisation. Will the Minister of State clarify how this will be achieved under the new arrangement?
The Department and I believe the local authorities play an integral role regarding Civil Defence and will continue to do so. Each Civil Defence organisation in each county will have a very close relationship with the local authority. My local authority in Wexford has a dedicated director of services who has responsibility for Civil Defence matters. Most local authorities have a dedicated official responsible for Civil Defence. There is, therefore, direct contact with the local authority. There is a very close relationship will all county and city mangers because they depend on Civil Defence members. Senator Michael Mullins has pointed out that, if there is flooding, for example, local authorities very much appreciate the work carried out by Civil Defence. I understand this will continue to be the case.
That is certainly the case. During the flooding in east Galway, the biggest crisis we have seen in the area, the lead agency was the local authority which worked very closely with Civil Defence. It was appropriate that, in the incidents in Ballinasloe, the Army was also involved. The Department of Defence is to be the parent body of Civil Defence. We saw on the ground the three agencies working closely to ensure lives were protected and damage to property was minimised. This is a good move and I very much welcome the assurances given by the Minister of State on staffing levels and resourcing equipment and vehicles.
SECTION 13
Question put and agreed to.
Question proposed: "That section 13 stand part of the Bill."
Section 13 deals with the annual reports produced by the local authorities under the local government legislation of 2001. They must refer to the performance of Civil Defence. However, the position is not very clear. To whom will one report under the new arrangement? There was a relationship between the local authority and the board of Civil Defence. The former collated the information on Civil Defence and was the reporting body. Now that the local authorities are to be taken out of the picture, what will be the chain of command?
With regard to expenditure incurred by local authorities, will the Minister of State clarify whether funds will come directly from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government or the Department of Defence?
The Minister of State who is very familiar with activity on the ground in his constituency will know that many local authority staff are also members of Civil Defence. In many cases, they work voluntarily. If they adopted a different approach to life, they could expect to be paid for their work. We should acknowledge their voluntary work and sense of civic duty. On many occasions, they put on their Civil Defence uniforms and work in the manner outlined by Senator Michael Mullins.
The Minister of State might respond to my two questions.
Section 221 provides that, no later than 30 June each year, every local authority and city council shall prepare and adopt a report which shall include particulars of policies, programmes, services and other activities undertaken by the council. The local authority will report directly to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government on this issue. I very much recognise that a large number of local authority workers are members of the Civil Defence and give generously of their spare time and effort to come out whenever required, as do all the volunteers involved.
Question put and agreed to.
SECTION 14
Question proposed: "That section 14 stand part of the Bill."
I hope the Minister of State will clarify for us that, as a result of the transfer of powers, there will not be any reduction in the level of grants paid to the local authorities to help them in their responsibilities in terms of civil defence. I know there is a budgetary process in terms of the ongoing moneys available, and that this will be negotiated on a year-by-year basis. However, I want to know that the actual transfer will not result in a reduction or in any cutbacks in the grants paid. As it is, all local authorities are strapped for cash but this is an essential role.
The Minister of State might also outline what type of moneys are available, for example, in a crisis scenario such as the flooding that happened in Galway, although it could be in Cork or anywhere else in the country. Is there a crisis fund which is held centrally and which each local authority can apply to if it finds itself in a crisis? How will that process work with the local authorities?
Are the grants paid on an annual basis, with a certain amount given each year to maintain the services and supports? How will the mechanism work from a grant aid or expenditure point of view? If, for example, Galway city or county council, or any council, finds itself in a time of crisis where the Civil Defence has to be deployed and there is extra expenditure, is this taken out of the annual allocation for the local authority or do they get central funding from the grant system that is in place?
Obviously, none of us can predict the weather or the chance of flooding. I assure the Senator that the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government will give additional funding to the local authority in question if required; it does not come from the overall central budget of the Department of Defence. As the Senator knows, given the nature of the beast, each county can be affected in different years. Each council would go back to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government and make a special case for extra funding. It is that Minister who will be in direct control.
Bill reported without amendment and received for final consideration.
Question put and agreed to.
Sections 15 to 18, inclusive, agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."
I compliment the Minister of State on negotiating this Bill through the Houses. On this side, there is full support for the measures in the Bill. I acknowledge, as others have done, the tremendous work Civil Defence personnel, apart from the board, have done over the years. Like Senator Mullins in regard to east Galway, I am acutely aware that, during the tremendous flooding in places like Bandon and Skibbereen on 18 and 19 November 2009, these people certainly saved lives but also prevented more atrocious flooding of commercial and residential properties by their action, vigilance and support in co-ordinating with the local county council and with the Army in some instances. This should be acknowledged.
It is good that the Minister of State has given us a clear assurance, which I accept, that, in effect, there will be no practical change in the role and operation of Civil Defence. I am glad that is ongoing. It behoves us, as public representatives, to occasionally, as we do not get the chance too often, acknowledge the great work Civil Defence has done over the years in many instances and many ways. The very least we can do is acknowledge what its members have done, wish them well and assure them they have our full support in order that the good work they have done will continue and their numbers will at least be sustained, if not grow.
I commend the Minister of State for bringing forward this legislation. I said during Committee Stage that Civil Defence had operated for 52 years without a board. While the board, when it was set up, did very good work, I believe the board is only the oversight body for the actual members on the ground. Civil Defence is as strong as ever. In my own town of Carrick-on-Suir, I see the young people getting involved in Civil Defence, and new people join every year. That is a great sign of the voluntary ethic in this country.
Senator O'Donovan mentioned the work of Civil Defence in regard to flooding in his area. The River Suir rises at the Devil's Bit and flows through Cashel, Cahir, Clonmel and into my own town of Carrick-on-Suir before reaching Waterford Harbour. We have had serious flooding problems along that river valley over many years and the first port of call for everybody affected was Civil Defence. It has done Trojan work and will continue to do so.
This is sensible legislation. I thank the Minister of State for bringing it forward and look forward to it being enacted.
I agree with the Minister of State on the legislation and thank him for his assurances in this regard. With my colleagues, I salute the great organisation that is Civil Defence and its spirit of voluntarism. Its members have done great work in countless incidents, some of which were referred to today and on Second Stage. I do not know where we would be without them and their spirit. I salute that and their valuable contribution over the years.
Thar ceann Shinn Féin, ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an mBille seo. Tréaslaím leis an Aire Stáit, leis na feidhmeannaigh ón Roinn a bhfuil tar éis an obair seo a dhéanamh agus, go mórmhór, le muintir Cosanta Sibhialta ar fud an oileáin a dhéanann obair na gcapall ag am na géarchéime, sa chuid is mó, chomh maith le féiltí agus ócáidí éagsúla. Bíonn siad ag traenáil de shíor i rith na bliana. Is iontach an obair atá ar siúl acu. Tá sé de dhualgas orainn mar fheidhmeannacht agus mar Stát déanamh cinnte de go bhfuil an tacaíocht chuí ar fáil dóibh.
I welcome the Bill. I commend the Minister of State, the civil servants who drafted the Bill and, I am sure, put in a lot of work, and also anyone who has been involved in any way with the work of Civil Defence over the years, in particular those who served on the board. I hope that work goes from strength to strength. The importance of voluntarism is well known and it is fantastic for people to be involved in their local communities.
As part of the ongoing process I ask the Government to endeavour to support the work of Civil Defence financially and by ensuring the necessary resources are kept in place and up to date and that equipment is renewed, when necessary. The level of dialogue between the Minister of State's Department and the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government is key. Some of the crises - flooding and so on - might have been averted had there been better planning and better drainage systems, if more money had been put into roads, waterways and infrastructure, with everything upgraded, as required. The funding of local authorities is also key in order that staffing levels are sufficient to undertake the necessary maintenance works on a day-to-day basis to avert such crises.
I commend the Minister of State and congratulate him on the Bill. I wish him and any person involved in Civil Defence all the best for the future.
I join my colleagues in complimenting the Minister of State on successfully bringing the Bill through the Houses, streamlining the process and bringing the Civil Defence organisation within the remit of the most appropriate Department. I pay tribute to the members of the board who have served the organisation well during the years and thank them for their service. With other Members, I acknowledge the voluntarism involved in Civil Defence and the tremendous work done on an ongoing basis. Its members are visible in times of crisis such as the instances of major flooding referred to, but they are also very much appreciated, although less visible, at the various large events and festivals held throughout the year. They give people a sense of security in that if anything goes wrong, skilled personnel are available to deal with emergencies.
I very much welcome the Minister of State's commitment that staffing levels and the resources required by Civil Defence into the future will be maintained. I have no doubt that with Civil Defence working closely with the local authorities, the Minister's Department and the Army, the excellent service we have received will continue. We do not pay tribute often enough to the emergency services for the work they do 365 days of the year in assisting communities to deal with emergencies while most of us are asleep in our beds. We cannot acknowledge enough the tremendous work done by the emergency services and, on a voluntary basis, the very many people involved in Civil Defence who help to supplement the efforts of the paid emergency service workers. Well done to the Minister of State and congratulations on streamlining the process. What he has done is wise. We are now looking at what could be done better, which is a positive and welcome move.
I thank the Members of the Seanad who contributed to the debate. The most important point we must remember at the conclusion of the debate on the Bill is that Civil Defence is not solely about governance and regulations but about the volunteers who give of their time to this great organisation. I have no doubt that this work will continue into the future. We all know that the role of Civil Defence has expanded over many years and I have no doubt that this will continue to be the case. The role played by the organisation in the local community will also grow. Some Senators mentioned local festivals and instances of flooding. When nobody else is willing to do the work local Civil Defence volunteers give generously of their time to ensure a professional job is done. They are to be found in every county and town.
Looking to the future of the organisation, the paramount aim is that volunteers will continue their work. After the Bill is passed in both Houses, we will look for a cross-section of views from all stakeholders, including Civil Defence members, the local authorities, the Garda Síochána, city and county managers and the HSE. We will bring them together and ensure their views are heard. The legislation only involves the dissolution of the board. The great work done by Civil Defence will continue into the future. There is no doubt that we are in changing and recessionary times. As Minister of State, I will do my best to ensure the current budget will hold. It is all about finances and seeking an agreement from the Minister for Finance that Civil Defence should hold its budget.
Another point was mentioned. How do we encourage young people to join this great organisation? If they do, they will receive absolutely brilliant leadership skills which they can use not only in Civil Defence but in other voluntary organisations also. Membership of Civil Defence gives young volunteers great standing and offers leadership skills in whatever job opportunities of which they may avail. I have been a member of many interview panels and noticed that those who have been members of Civil Defence show genuine leadership skills that many in other organisations do not possess, on which I compliment the organisation and its leaders.
I compliment the outgoing board on the service it has given to this great organisation in recent years. The work they have carried out is much appreciated and I thank them on my own behalf and that of the Minister, Deputy Alan Shatter. The fact that the board is being dissolved does not mean the views of its members about the organisation will not be listened to.
I again thank the Members who contributed to the debate. There was a very good debate in the House throughout Second and Committee Stages. I hope the Bill will have as smooth a passage through the Dáil as it has had through the Seanad.
Question put and agreed to.