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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 7 Feb 2013

Vol. 220 No. 11

Order of Business

The Order of Business is No. 1, Industrial Development (Science Foundation Ireland) (Amendment) Bill 2012 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 2.45 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes and the Minister to be called on to reply not later than 2.35 p.m.

I wish to respond, among other matters, to the recent review of the Government's Action Plan for Jobs launched last Friday by the Taoiseach; the Tánaiste, Deputy Eamon Gilmore; and the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton. What is clear from the launch is that the Government is more concerned with PR tactics than creating jobs. Last night, instead of creating jobs, the Government demolished 850 State jobs, leaving 850 employees devastated-----

Senator White to continue, without interruption.

It is leaving the 850 State employees devastated and putting their financial future and that of their families on the line. The manner in which it was done was absolutely shocking.

That is ridiculous.

It would have caused a national uproar had it been a private company or, above all, a multidnational. According to the general secretary of the Irish Bank Officials Association, Mr. Larry Broderick, there is real fear among the former employees who were formerly employees of Anglo Irish Bank, that they will be overlooked completely or, at best, disregarded as collateral damage. The Minister for Finance stated the majority of the IBRC staff would be rehired to assist the liquidator, but greater clarity is needed, as he has given no guarantee whatsoever to the former State employees.

I cannot resist saying there is a clear golden circle of auditors who are repeatedly rewarded with large Government contracts, as I have observed during the years. I include Deloitte, Arthur Andersen, PwC and KPMG. I question the criteria used when selecting KPMG as the liquidator for the IBRC.

The unemployment rate is 14.6% and it is increasing year on year.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Yes. I ask that the Taoiseach come to the House. In 2010, 69,000 people emigrated from Ireland. In 2011, 81,000 people emigrated, while 87,000 emigrated last year.

Who was in government for the preceding 14 years during which time the problem was caused?

The former IBRC employees will add to these sad statistics. The European Central Bank is no better than many Departments. It has caused mayhem with its restrictive policies across Spain, Greece, Portugal and Cyprus, adding to the alarming unemployment rate.

After a year of discussions with the ECB in Frankfurt, it appears they have fallen through as we scramble to make a deal. Last night Fianna Fáil accepted the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Bill 2013 after placing good faith and trust in the Government. However, personally, I do not like the abrupt manner in which the legislation was introduced. It is a reminder of that horrific night, 30 September 2008, when the bank guarantee was introduced.

The Senator has exceeded her time.

It is the kind of night I never believed I would experience again. It was on that night that Anglo Irish Bank should have been liquidated. We, as citizens of a sovereign, proud, independent state, have been treated despicably in the past year by the European Central Bank. We will never forget this. To add to our humiliation by it, some know-all or person wanting to cause trouble in Frankfurt leaked the information on the deal. This is despicable. We must stand up for ourselves.

Nobody in this Chamber or anywhere else is in doubt about the seriousness of the circumstances in which we find ourselves. Last night we were glad to sit because we had to. Sometimes emergency legislation is required and last night was one of those occasions. For Senator Mary White to compare last night to the fateful night in 2008 is irresponsible, inaccurate and wholly laughable. As she and her colleagues know, large problems were inherited from the previous Administration. The Government is on an ongoing mission to restore Irish sovereignty and sort out the problems with the banks. Lately, we have been accused of mentioning the promissory note problem too often by those who said three months ago that we did not mention it enough. As with many others, I am hopeful the head of the European Central Bank, Mr. Draghi, will make an announcement this afternoon on a favourable deal for Ireland. However, if that deal does not emerge today, I will not lose my patience because I know that these deals are intricate, complex and require much thought and consideration if they are to be got right. If there were no such deliberation, we would complain. If there is no deal today, I will be confident that one will be struck in the middle of next week. The Taoiseach is in Brussels today with the Heads of State negotiating the new EU budget. He is trying to reach agreement on a budget of nearly €1 trillion. He hopes the deal will be struck by the weekend. One will agree, therefore, that there is quite a lot of pressure on the system.

As a Member of the Seanad, I was very proud to have been present yesterday at the launch of the public consultation committee's report on cancer. The report is the result of the public hearings we commenced last year on what the Government could do to draw attention to the fact that 30% of common cancers are now preventable and that there is evidence to show this. I was delighted to welcome yesterday representatives of the National Cancer Control Programme, the Irish Cancer Society and many other organisations which took part in the consultation process. They welcomed the short but accurate and complete report that we had presented. We will be giving it to the Minister and I look forward to his being present to debate it. It was a good day for the Seanad.

I wish Ireland the best of luck on Sunday.

I thank the staff of the House for remaining here until 6 a.m. In doing so, they were so helpful and courteous, as always. This service to the House was way above the call of duty. While it was so unexpected for any of us to be here, our staff were wonderful.

Let me mention the various centenary celebrations that will be occurring. I ask that the parliamentary tradition be included with the others we are to honour. There is a very fine section on the Irish Parliamentary Party in Dr. Maurice Manning's chapter in the book The Houses of the Oireachtas. The facts about the party are simple enough, he states. For 40 years it was the voice of nationalist Ireland. It articulated its demands and argued its case in the one place where change was possible to achieve and it achieved much. It created the world's first pledge-bound, mass-based disciplined political party. It forced a rewriting of the rules of the House of Commons, held the balance of power at critical moments, put the Irish question on top of the political agenda and, among other achievements, delivered a series of reforms that resulted in the end of landlordism. There is a terrific tradition that is sometimes forgotten about in other aspects of Irish history. We, as parliamentarians, should organise some event to celebrate that splendid parliamentary tradition.

We certainly had interesting political drama in Leinster House yesterday and the proceedings continued long into the night. Senator Mary White referred to the long session on 30 September 2008. On that night, perhaps through nobody's fault or everybody's, we entered a very long tunnel of economic despair. Let us hope last night's late sitting in the Houses will be the beginning of the exit from that dark tunnel. There is much work still to be done and the Government continues to negotiate. We wish all our negotiators well in these crucial days. We can, at least, look forward with some optimism on behalf of the people. We must congratulate everybody concerned. A united national effort is required. Had we known in 2008 what we now know, different decisions might have been made. However, most people entered into the spirit of national co-operation and we must expect and demand the same of all our political colleagues now.

Let me refer to what Senator Sean D. Barrett said about the Irish Parliamentary Party. His contribution was excellent and on a subject in which the Leader has a great interest. We should have an opportunity in this House to reflect further on it. That leads me to a point I have wished to make, despite the economic agenda having very much taken over.

It would be helpful if we had a debate on Northern Ireland in the next few weeks. Fortunately, the need the Seanad had ten or 15 years ago for almost weekly or monthly debates to discuss tragedies in Northern Ireland has passed, but there are still significant problems in the northern part of this country, from a political perspective, on which we need to reflect. Senators have different views on, and analysis of, the issue. I do not recall a debate on Northern Ireland in this Seanad and it would be helpful if we could set aside a few hours because, without abusing the term, all of the problems have not gone away and we still must play a part in the ongoing political dialogue between this House, Northern Ireland and London.

I will not rehash what happened last night. In one sense, we have taken a leap of faith and put our trust in the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, to negotiate and deliver the best possible deal for the nation.

We should ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, to come to the House for an urgent debate on CAP reform. The negotiation on the EU budget today is of huge importance to this country but we should not forget that almost 25% of those elected to the Seanad are elected through the agricultural panel. We must keep agriculture and the agrifood industry foremost in our minds. The current provision for the single farm payment is €1.7 billion and I urge, in so far as possible, that this figure is retained to ensure the survival of the farming sector, which is the backbone of our economic recovery. I wish the Taoiseach, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine and all those involved in the negotiations every success. It is proper and fitting that we all wear the green jersey on these occasions. In negotiations on CAP reform and on the Common Fisheries Policy, I would always wish our Minister the best in fighting for the best deal possible for the farmers and fishermen of this country. However, I sound a note of warning that if the single farm payment, worth €1.7 billion to this country, is in any way diluted or if Ireland is asked to contribute more than the back-up funding of one euro for one euro, there will be protests from farming organisations. The Irish Farmers Association, the Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association and the Irish Cattle and Sheep Farmers Association are really depending on the Minister to deliver. While I wish him well, I shudder to think what will happen if the deal for the farming organisations, this country and the farmers is less than we expect it to be.

There is a certain sense of déjà vu for many of us in that we were here not so many hours ago debating the emergency legislation to liquidate what was Anglo Irish Bank. Like everybody else, I have been on Twitter and Facebook and have been listening to the social media. I am at something of a loss in reconciling what we did last night with what people are talking about this morning. It is amazing the way the naysayers come out of the woodwork the minute anything positive happens in the country. Like everybody else, I accept it was not ideal that we had to pass emergency legislation in the way we did, but we all accept, given what we know, that it was necessary. Ideally, that legislation would have been introduced in tandem with the final agreement with the European Central Bank, but that was not to be. We know that discussions are continuing in Frankfurt this morning.

Some of the commentary about how we are mortgaging our children's future and that we should have held out for debt forgiveness makes me wonder what command of economics some of the commentators have. It is quite simple economics. If I borrow €40 today but do not have to pay it back for 40 years at a rate of interest of 3%, with inflation and so forth, that constitutes debt forgiveness. Far from mortgaging our children's future, what we are doing is liberating their future. We will be making finances available for job creation.

God protect us from carp.

Does Senator Hayden have a question for the Leader?

We are securing the future of the children of this country. This constitutes the sovereign taking over debt, which is not the responsibility of the sovereign.

Is the Senator looking for a debate on the issue?

I am looking for a full debate when the agreement is made known, whenever that may be. I agree with Senator O'Keeffe that it may not be today, but I have every confidence that agreement is coming. I would like a full informed debate in this House and not the type of hysteria which I suspect is being generated in the social media.

Yesterday I had a visit from three people, including a brother and a sister. The woman had donated a kidney to her brother, which ended years of dialysis that he had had to undergo. I asked them what we could do to help and it was very clear he was giving me a list of two or three things. One of the points he made was that there has been a very substantial drop in the number of organ donations in the past year. It is not impossible for us to do some things. We should ensure we have trained advisers to approach people if someone close to them has died. There was a case during the week in which a woman's son died and she was able to say his organs had given new life to at least four people. We have reduced the number of co-ordinators - I do not particularly like that word - for organ transplants and it is possible to do something about this.

An article in the newspaper yesterday stated Northern Ireland proposed to introduce the principle of presumed consent, but in the Republic it is not acceptable to approach the parents of somebody who has died to make that suggestion. The suggestion must come from the parents themselves. This is a matter we should debate, particularly the aspect of presumed consent. As Senators know, we debated a Bill that was adjourned for further consultation but nothing has happened since. It is time to resurrect the Bill now that Northern Ireland proposes to introduce presumed consent in that one does not have to opt in to be an organ donor. Another woman who visited me has been waiting years for a kidney, as has her father. She has dialysis every night of the year and her father goes into hospital three times a week for six or eight hours. We can do something about this. We have the Bill and the know-how; we just need the commitment. The Bill we debated was adjourned and it is time to resurrect it. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Health to consider introducing a Bill of his own? Otherwise, we could do so and he could respond positively.

We congratulated Fianna Fáil on acting in the national interest and I complimented Senator MacSharry on his contribution. I also compliment Deputy Michael McGrath. The last Government had to make a decision because it was kept in the dark by the banks as a result of commercial interests. Even though it was not kept in the dark, the Government had to make a decision in the national interest, for the good of society and to save our national assets in the IBRC. There is a difference and to send a message that it is the same is totally wrong. It is a sad day for the staff of the IBRC, but they need to know the facts.

The Minister indicated to us that "the majority of staff will, if they wish, be re-hired for the purposes of the orderly liquidation on such terms and for such duration as may be determined by the Special Liquidators. Employees will rank, in the normal way, as preferential creditors ahead of NAMA". It is important for the employees to know that they rate higher than NAMA. He continued, "and unsecured creditors in respect of certain amounts owing ... including accrued wages, salaries, holiday pay, sick pay, statutory redundancy, pensions contributions and claims for damages." That is what was written down. The staff needs to know that information today because it was suggested that they could have been out the door with no comeback or anything.

I appreciate the stance adopted by Senators Michael McGrath and MacSharry last night. In the national interest I hope that the facts will circulate. The legislation was not rushed but the decision had to be rushed.

Does Senator Keane have a question for the Leader?

Yes. I ask the Leader to put the facts on the table. The legislation was planned for some considerable time.

The Senator has run over time.

Substantial contingency plans were made. The Minister had planned for this. He envisaged that it might happen; it did happen and he was ready to go.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Yes. My question is the same as that of Senator Hayden who put it succinctly.

One can tell that he wanted the contingency now in order that he would have an advantage over someone.

Senator Keane to continue, without interruption, please.

Senator Hayden said a decision might not be made today; therefore, we will not jump up and down if it is not. When the decision is made in Frankfurt, I ask the Leader to schedule enough time on our timesheet for a reasoned debate.

The facts are very clear and on the table for the people. As many people went to bed last night they were worried about the emergency legislation being rushed through the Dáil and this House and its impact on them and their families. Yesterday was a day of high drama. It was also a day of chaos and farce because public representatives learned from Twitter and social media what was happening, not from the Government.

We have learned to our cost, inside and outside this House, not to celebrate so-called deals presented to us by the Government on banking debt. It is not so long ago that the Tánaiste, the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance returned here after a summit last June and hailed what they described as a game changer where banking debt was to be separated from sovereign debt. That is what we were told.

They have gone back and told no one.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Yesterday all stages of legislation were rushed through the House in two hours and without an amendment being tabled by a Senator.

We heard it all last night.

It was done in order that €31 billion of toxic banking debt would become sovereign debt and it is now to become the debt of the people of this country. Senator Hayden says we cannot say the debt will be a burden on our children. What happened here last night was akin to somebody taking out a mortgage to pay their credit card. That is what happened.

(Interruptions).

We are asking not just this generation but the next generation of young people to pay back that debt.

That is an exaggeration.

What we needed and what we should have got is what the Tánaiste said we had when he returned last June, namely a complete separation of banking debt from sovereign debt. Anything short of that is absolute fudge.

I urge the Senator to hold his whist a while.

It should not and cannot be accepted or celebrated by the people.

There are transition year students seated in the Visitors Gallery and they can understand the economics of the deal much easier than Senator Cullinane and the Sinn Féin Party. It is quite obvious. He likened the deal to a credit card loan being replaced by a mortgage. That would be good business if we could do that because the interest rate on credit cards ranges between 18% and 20%. It would be a good deal if one got a mortgage at 3%.

Not over 40 years.

One would still have a year to pay back a credit card.

That is a weak argument and the Senator is on shaky ground.

The difference is that the people would still pay it back. The Sinn Féin attitude is to pay it back for a month and then give two fingers to the mortgage company. That is how the party would deal with the debt; it would not pay anyone, but the consequences would be severe.

It is not our debt. The debt does not come from the people.

It is quite simple. People in business will understand and I have been in business. The people who are doing business are finding it extremely tough. What if I or any business person went into a local bank and asked for €100,000 capital to develop or maintain a business and the bank agreed? It would say one did not have to repay the capital amount for 40 years but would charge 3% in interest per year, which would amount to €3,000, over the length of the mortgage.

The Senator can make that point during the debate. Does he support the call for a debate?

Yes. I want to clarify a point for Senator Cullinane because he does not understand. Any business person would grab that deal on €100,000 because he or she would not have to pay it back for 40 years and could maintain a business with €3,000. The banks are offering €100,000 over five years. That means it would cost €100,000, plus €6,000 per year in interest and could cost €140,000 in total.

Does it all make perfect sense?

It makes perfect sense. Sinn Féin does not do perfect sense.

We make perfect sense.

It just does not understand the deal.

Senator Harte is over time.

Shakespeare said he could give an explanation but could not give an understanding.

I want to comment on the issue of recent days. While we appreciate the relative praise that has come from the Government side, I would advise it not to make coalition plans yet. Last night we took a leap of faith in the interest of the Government but many of us, if not all of us, are deeply uneasy about aspects of the legislation.

It is in the national interest.

I am deeply uneasy about the stay on legal actions against the bank. I am deeply concerned that it was as planned as the Government said last night. What plans could have been or should have been put in place for the staff who are not going to be taken on by a liquidator who will not have the same salaries and conditions? They are a concern. Underlying all of that is a concern about the deal. Promissory notes and special purpose vehicles are from Mars when compared with what the people are interested in. They want to know what will help them pay their child care bills and decrease their mortgage arrears. We need a deal that is tangible. Once upon a time I held a different view, but that has evolved as it should as we learn more. A write-down is essential in a European context. Last night I said briefly that the European Union and the ECB had manipulated a process, whether it be Germany, France or the super powers, to politically appease their own nations and suit themselves and use Ireland as a pawn. As the Spanish crisis grows, they will be forced to act and I hope for that in earnest. We all support the Minister for Finance and all efforts to secure a good deal today but it must involve a write-down.

I shall turn to another issue and thank the Cathaoirleach for his indulgence. Next Tuesday the hospitals groupings will be announced which is a critically important issue for the region concerned. The report is being prepared by Mr. John Higgins and he will recommend that the Sligo Regional Hospital and Letterkenny Hospital will be grouped with University College Hospital Galway. We appreciate that those areas need to be directly linked with a tertiary hospital for certain expertise. Mr. Higgins will acknowledge in his report that there is a unique geographic situation at work in the north-west region. We may need to establish a group within the group with its own governance structure for Letterkenny and Sligo, in particular. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate immediately after the report is made available on Tuesday because it is vitally important. Unlike the clinical programmes such as cancer services and changes in cardiology, we do not need to make the same mistake, that is shutting down the north-west region.

Last night we did not have an ideal amount of time, yet we still had a quality and an informative discussion with the Minister. Some feisty contributions, particularly from Senator Hayden, captured the moment.

I sincerely hope that the urgency that appropriately applied to this legislation will apply also to finding a solution for the victims of the desperate scandal that was the Magdalen laundries.

In the midst of all the chaos yesterday I met two people from Mallow and a lady from Limerick. The two people from Mallow were brother and sister and the sister had donated a kidney to her brother. The lady from Limerick was awaiting a kidney. They spoke to me about the need to train people in hospitals to ensure that bereaved families can be approached in an understanding and caring way and asked if they would be prepared to donate the kidneys of their loved ones to save the lives of others. That would be a noble gesture. It would not be costly to train at least one member of the nursing staff in each hospital, particularly in the centres of excellence. I call on the Leader to request the Minister for Health to initiate a simple training programme, in consultation with the Irish Kidney Association, to ensure that each of the hospitals, particularly the centres of excellence, has a dedicated member of its nursing staff who is in a position to approach bereaved families for this vital support to human life.

I am concerned about what has been happening to this country. I also wish the Minister, Deputy Noonan, well. Senator Hayden said that this measure was not rushed. I left towards the end of business yesterday; I had to make a journey. I was not informed that anything was going on here. I came back to find that emergency legislation had been pushed through the House in the early hours of the morning and that the President had had to return from Rome. If that is not rushed, I do not know what is. I may not be as informed as Senator Hayden but I have a nodding acquaintance with the English language and the meaning of its vocabulary.

This measure is transferring a debt that is not ours into sovereign debt. That means we are giving away our last card. The European Central Bank is not a sentimental organisation. As far as I am concerned, we are depending on the kindness of strangers. Frankfurt's ways can be strange ways, and there is damn all kindness about them as far as I can see. We are in the hands of loan sharks. Senator Harte was right to pick up the defective analogy my colleague, Senator Cullinane, produced. We are taking out a mortgage to pay somebody else's credit card debt. That is the rub. That is the problem. My colleague Senator Barrett - I pay tribute to his sterling performance last night - has informed me that debt as a percentage of GDP, which was 25% five years ago, is now 125%. That is the situation we are in. It is very dangerous to give away our cards when we are facing this kind of situation.

With regard to our own banks, we do not count. They are getting as arrogant as the Government. I was in the bank yesterday and given a little leaflet, which was very helpful. It appears it is good for us that the bank is changing everything around to machines. In one section there are only two human beings, and a wall of machines has replaced what was there before. We are asked to buy our own foreign currency drafts but only drafts of more than €500 in value will be available for purchase. Only international payments valued at more than €3,000 will be processed at the branch counter. The credit card facility will no longer be available at the branch counter, and payments to non-Bank-of-Ireland accounts will no longer be available at the bank's counter.

We cannot have commercials.

Allied Irish Banks is just as bad and, thank God. we have seen the last of the damned and blasted Anglo Irish Bank, which I said three years ago the Government should finish off with a quick blow. If it had done that we would not have thrown €38 billion down the drain. It has sold the past, as far as I am concerned, and I hope we will have another opportunity to debate this measure. It seems I cannot turn my back on this country for five minutes before it is sent down the tubes.

A Sinn Féin Member stood up in the Seanad last night and complained for a full five minutes that he was only being allowed speak for two minutes.

(Interruptions).

I understand, but it betrays a pattern of behaviour from that party that seeks to undermine the stability of our society. We saw the hysteria promoted by Sinn Féin with regard to the debate on the closure of Garda stations. We also saw a proposal from Sinn Féin in the other House questioning the independence of the Judiciary and now Sinn Féin is putting forward uneducated and ill-informed opinion about the state of debt.

We are on the Order of Business.

Senator Norris quoted Senator Barrett as having said the debt-to-GDP ratio was at 125%. It is bad enough at 113%, which is the accurate figure, without inflating it by another 12 percentage points to make it 125%. However, Senator Barrett will agree with me that there are other metrics by which debt sustainability can be measured. One method is the debt-to-GDP ratio, but another is the sustainability and affordability of the debt. The deal that we will achieve on the promissory notes will offer relief under other measures that might not be captured when we-----

That precludes the hypothetical discussion that they are non-existent, as the Senator should know.

Senator Gilroy to continue, without interruption.

I am calling for calm in this debate. A press conference is due to take place in Frankfurt in the next hour-----

The Labour Party capital.

-----at which Mario Draghi will talk about the intense negotiations that have been taking place yesterday, overnight and this morning. Before we jump on our bandwagons to promote our own little agendas, whatever they may be, we might take a moment to be calm and wait for some facts to emerge before we express other opinions.

Last night's process was far from satisfactory, but I accept there was a risk of flight for bondholders in the IBRC and, as a consequence, action needed to be taken. However, I was taken by a comment made in the Lower House by Deputy Stephen Donnelly, who asked why the Bill could not have been more narrow and focused to deal with that risk exposure, rather than extending it to other areas. I refer in particular to section 6, where it appears to me - I am not a lawyer - that a very selective approach has been taken which might be prejudicial to current and future litigants who may take action against the IBRC, now NAMA, although their continuing actions in the other direction are endorsed by the Bill. It strikes me - not to mention the ultra vires point made by Senator Barrett last night - that this makes the Bill highly susceptible to a constitutional challenge. If the Bill is successfully challenged, the risk exposure to the bondholders then becomes very focused and a reality for us. Has the liquidator appointed to this company any connection as auditor or consultant to any of the failed financial institutions? It would be regrettable if the Leader answered in the positive, which I suspect he may have to do.

Last night we copperfastened bank debt as sovereign debt. It was said last summer at IMF and EU level that the need to separate bank debt from sovereign debt was essential if countries were to recover. We have gone in the opposite direction in that, as I perceive it, that cannot happen. I was seriously concerned last night when a Government Member, whom I will not embarrass by naming him, said this was about alleviating difficult political decisions. This could be the purpose of the Bill. I understand there will be a saving of a couple of billion euro a year in interest rates as we pile the debt out and transfer it to our grandchildren and to future generations. It is not a responsible action for us to take. It is certainly not one I will subscribe to in the future, and I hope my party will not subscribe to it either.

Emergency legislation was brought before the House last night, but I was pleased to hear the Minister, Deputy Noonan, clarify that the drafting of the legislation was not an emergency measure; it had been in place for months. We can take solace from the fact that much thought had gone into it and that the measures around it were secure.

Senator Marc MacSharry has said we have to see how all of this is affecting people in their homes.

It has come to my attention in the past week that the mortgage arrears resolution process is not working. That is the code all of the banks here, including Ulster Bank which is not one of the pillar banks, have signed up to. How can we help the home owner? I have been informed in the past week that a relationship manager for a bank worked with a customer, agreed that there should be forbearance, verified the expenditure and accepted proof of bona fides but when the file went to head office the application was completely rejected. This is a family that is doing its best to pay the mortgage and has not yet gone into arrears, but it is flagging that it is about to happen. However, when it seeks forbearance, it is refused, despite the fact that it forms part of the mortgage arrears resolution process code, to which all banks have signed up. What is the point of the process, given that when proof is provided, it is rejected by head office. We have got to do something about the issue. I ask the Leader to invite the appropriate Minister to the House, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, or another Minister, for a debate on the issue. The banks must be made to live up to the code when proof is provided that a family is about to go into arrears and asking for help for one year.

Last night may have been an education for us on how junior doctors in the health service have to work. I suggest we work one late session or one early morning session once a week until we face up to that difficult issue in the health service. I refer to a matter raised by Senator Feargal Quinn, that is, organ donation. Senator John Crown appeared with a number of others before the Joint Committee on Health at 9.30 a.m. That is an indication of the endurance one has to learn to have as a doctor. An issue that has arisen in respect of organ donation is that there are a number of organisations trying to promote it, but there is no co-ordination between the HSE and the Department of Health on the matter. This raises an issue which I raised recently in an Adjournment debate about the Department of Health which meets groups individually but is not meeting all groups involved in a particular issue together. For example, in regard to elderly care, it will meet representatives of the nursing homes on their own, representatives of the HSE on their own and representatives of HIQA on their own, but no co-ordination is taking place within the health care sector. We need an urgent debate with the Minister on the co-ordination of services within the health care sector involving the HSE, the Department of Health, HIQA, health care providers and all those who work in the system as delivery is unorganised and disjointed. That matter was raised at the Joint Committee on Health this morning, with reference to the issues raised by Senators Feargal Quinn and Martin Conway. As it is time there was much greater co-ordination, I ask the Leader to invite the Minister to the House to deal with the issue.

We all agree there were some fantastic contributions in the House last night on the emergency legislation which had to be enacted. Everybody wants the best possible deal for the country and the word on the wire in the past couple of minutes is that a deal has been done. We all hope it is favourable for the country, that it will ensure resources which are badly required for job creation, about which Senator Mary White spoke so passionately, will be available. I hope that is what will flow from it. Whatever its shape, we are all wearing the green jersey and irrespective of our politics, we all want the best possible outcome for the people. I compliment the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, who gave an outstanding performance in the House. He has been sure-footed throughout the process. He did not panic when others urged him to take this or that route. He maintained a steady course in negotiating on behalf of the nation and I am confident the fruits of his labours will be revealed later in the day. We owe him a debt of gratitude.

It is good to note Members are alert having been in the House until 6 a.m. That we have rehashed the issue debated last night is probably understandable.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

I do, which goes without saying. As the Cathaoirleach might say, it is a sine qua non. We all know a deal was effectively negotiated which I hope will be signed off on today, but if not, we must be patient for a little longer. Much has been said about what was inherited from a previous Administration, including I think by Senator Mary White. It could have happened to any Administration but certainly the Administration of which she was a member was kept in the dark by the banks and, effectively, had a gun put to its head. Those on this side took it in trust and good faith, wearing the green jersey on that occasion, and I am glad to acknowledge, as others have done, that that party has done something similar on this occasion. However, the circumstances are very different. We are in possession of facts and have not had a gun put to our heads. We had inherited an arrangement on which we could not have reneged. That is the difference. As stated by another speaker, the legislation was prepared months ago, as the Minister made clear last night, and proof read by the Attorney General.

The Senator is adding to the rehash.

I hope the deal is signed off on today or if not, it may take a while longer. I ask the Leader to arrange for a debate on whatever deal is agreed in Frankfurt.

I welcome the guidelines for schools and centres of education published by the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, on cyber bullying and bullying in general. However, the guidelines must be backed up by the provision of training for teachers and education providers and funding to enable guidance counsellors do the job for which they have been trained in schools and centres of education. I, therefore, ask the Leader to invite the Minister to the House for a debate on his plans to fund the training courses required.

I draw the attention of the House to an important event, the Career Zoo, which is due to take place free of charge on Saturday next at the Convention Centre in Dublin. Leading multinational and Irish employers will offer high quality jobs and excellent long-term career opportunities in Ireland. PayPal, a company which will be represented, is one of the leading employers in Dundalk. Also exhibiting will be Amazon and Workday. Last year more than 9,000 people attended and it is anticipated that the event will be bigger and better this year, given that more than 100 exhibitors are expected, offering jobs in IT, engineering, the pharmaceutical sector, biomedical science and so on. It is important to highlight the event and the opportunities that will be on offer on Saturday.

I wish to raise one other matter.

In four months time thousands of students will be sitting their junior and leaving certificate examinations. Concerns have been expressed to me recently about concessions for students with disabilities or learning difficulties. I have many years of experience of teaching at secondary level and I have seen great improvements in that area, but it has been brought to my attention that people who have recognised learning difficulties such as dyslexia are not automatically entitled to a reader who could greatly assist them in their examinations. I was amazed to discover that they must also fulfil other criteria. This is an important point for the future of our youth. A brief exam can determine whether an individual is entitled to a reader who can influence his or her future career. I ask the Minister for Education and Skills to come to the House to discuss the facilities available for students who have learning difficulties or disabilities and what we can do to further the careers of our youth.

Ba mhaith liom tacú leis an méid a dúirt mo chomhghleacaí, an Seanadóir Cullinane, níos luaithe maidir leis an díospóireacht a bhí againn aréir. Is cuma cén tuairim atá againn maidir leis an mBille a chuir an Seanad tríd aréir, caithfear a admháil go raibh caighdeán na díospóireachta go dona. Bhí an t-am a bhí leagtha ar leataobh don díospóireacht i bhfad ró-ghearr. Ní dóigh liom gur bealach maith é sin le haghaidh obair an Tí seo a chur chun cinn. Cineál masla a bhí ann, ar bhealach, ar an obair atáimid ag iarraidh a dhéanamh. Tá daoine sa dream seo againne atá diongbháilte agus a dhéanann a gcuid oibre go dúthrachtach. Ní dóigh liom gurb é seo an bealach is fearr le reachtaíocht a chur tríd.

Nótáilim go bhfuil sé roghnaithe ag an Teach eile 6 Márta seo chugainn a thógáil le haghaidh lá na Gaeilge.

I understand the Dáil has agreed to discuss lá na Gaeilge on 6 March. The Leader has agreed to arrange for the Minister of State at the Department of the Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy McGinley, to come to the House to discuss Gaeltacht issues, but it would be useful if we could have a debate as Gaeilge on that day on some other issue. A number of Ministers would be able to respond to such a debate.

I may have been taken up wrongly yesterday when I mentioned Older and Bolder and the cuts to its funding. I was calling for a debate on the community and voluntary sector which has experienced severe cuts in the past several years. Many agencies have lost their funding and much of the infrastructure for the sector is falling by the wayside due to budgetary and economic constraints. We should have a debate on the implications for this important sector because we certainly need the supports it offers to our communities.

I took solace from the fact that the legislation we passed this morning had been planned for months. It is considered legislation that is unlikely to throw curve balls in future. It represented the first step in permanently removing Anglo Irish Bank from our financial landscape and closing a dark chapter in Ireland's financial history. The main motivation was to secure €12 billion in assets which will eventually return to the State. It will definitely loosen the noose around the Government's neck when it comes to providing services in this state. If what Senator Mullins said is correct and a deal has been agreed, we must hope it will improve the life of citizens in coming years.

I support Senators Quinn, Conway and Colm Burke regarding organ donation. This House should engage in public consultation on the issue because if, as Senator Colm Burke noted, some groups have gotten lost in trying to promote the issue and raise awareness, we could help their agenda by providing a report on it for the Minister for Health.

Senator Mary White is acting leader of Fianna Fáil today. The Minister for Finance and the Government are acting in the national interest in trying to achieve the best possible deal for citizens. The Senator set out a personal position which contradicts some of the constructive statements made by the Fianna Fáil spokesman on finance in the other House. She is entitled to her opinion in that regard. Last night the Minister comprehensively outlined our position and where we were going. The President signed the Bill this morning after it was considered by this House. The governing council of the ECB met this morning and a press conference will take place at 1.30 p.m. We are hopeful a constructive deal that will benefit all citizens will result from the negotiations. I hope that is the wish of every Member of the House. The Minister noted that the Government had to act quickly because once information became public there was an immediate risk to the bank. He took immediate action to secure its stability and assets. The legislation had been approved by the Attorney General and was ready for when we wanted it. There was no panic; it is reasoned and considered legislation. The Minister is sure footed and the people have confidence in him to get the best possible deal for the nation.

Senator Susan O'Keeffe spoke about the ECB and mentioned the public consultation report which I hope has been circulated to all Members of the House. It is very concise. People may think at first glance that it does not contain much, but the various people who made comprehensive and excellent submissions to the Seanad Public Consultation Committee were pleased with it. I will try to arrange a debate with the Minister at the earliest opportunity in order that we can discuss the recommendations, key points and findings made in the report. I urge Members to read it.

I join Senator Sean D. Barrett in thanking all the staff and Members who were here at 6 a.m. to debate the important Bill that we passed. I welcome the Senator's comments on the achievements of the Irish Parliamentary Party over a number of years. These achievements are long forgotten or written out of history by many historians, but it was the party of Ireland in seeking home rule for this country over a 40 year period. It was the dominant party at one stage. I agree that it should be commemorated in a better way than it has been remembered heretofore.

Senator Denis O'Donovan spoke about single farm payments. All of us wish the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine well in his negotiations and hope he will secure the best possible deal for Ireland.

Senator Susan O'Keeffe also mentioned the negotiations on the EU budget. It is very important that a conclusion is secured on it.

Senator Aideen Hayden spoke about the Bill taken last night. This matter was also raised by quite a number of other Senators who called for a debate on the deal, when we have one. That debate will happen.

Senators Feargal Quinn, Martin Conway, Colm Burke and Catherine Noone raised the matter of the importance of organ donations and pointed out that there had been a drop in numbers this year. Senator Martin Conway said we needed training, for nurses in particular, in how to seek donations. Organ donation is an important issue and we will try to get the Minister for Health to come to the House to discuss it. We have had four or five requests today for him to come to the House to discuss various issues. We will certainly try to get him to come here soon.

Senator Feargal Quinn asked about the Construction Contracts Bill which I have been informed will be brought to the Dáil in March. At last there is some movement on it.

Senator David Cullinane spoke about our debate. There is no danger that he will celebrate any deal as his party thrives on the misery of others. No wonder he is angry, when the Government is making progress in the negotiations with our EU partners. I note the comment made by Senator Jimmy Harte that Sinn Féin had a different way of dealing with banks than other parties. That is another matter.

The Leader needs to buy a new record.

Senator Marc MacSharry has outlined how his views on economic matters have changed during the year and called for a debate on hospital groupings. This issue is of interest to people in all areas. We are very hopeful our region will be kept intact and that budgets will be controlled within it. I will try to arrange a debate on the issue.

Senator David Norris has welcomed the fact Anglo Irish Bank is no more. I doubt anybody would disagree with him. Senator John Gilroy made an excellent contribution yesterday evening, as did most others, and called on us to wait for the facts. That would be wise. People should not comment on what is only speculation at this point. With regard to what Senator Jim Walsh had to say, I will not revisit the Bill at this stage. The Minister gave a comprehensive explanation last night and I doubt I could add to it.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames outlined the difficulties facing families in mortgage arrears. I agree that there is a need for banks to respond better than they are doing. Perhaps we might receive a further update from the relevant Minister or Minister of State in due course.

I assure Senator Colm Burke that I have no intention of having late night sessions like the one we had last night on a regular basis. I note the point he made about junior doctors, an issue he has raised in the House on several occasions. He has also mentioned the need for greater co-operation and co-ordination between all health agencies. There is no question that issue is of paramount importance.

Senator Michael Mullins has said he hopes the fruits of the Minister for Finance's labour will benefit the country. We all agree with him. Senator Paul Coghlan has called for a debate on the deal when it is secured. I will arrange it.

Senator Diarmuid Wilson spoke about the guidelines on cyberbullying and asked about the provision of resources to fund their implementation. I am sure the Minister will be anxious to come to the House to discuss these issues with Members.

Senator Mary Moran mentioned the Career Zoo exhibition, an excellent exhibition which was attended by over 9,000 people last year. I hope there will be a lot more present this year and I am sure the exhibition will be as good as, if not better, than last year.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh asked about lá na Gaeilge. In addition to the Minister of State, Deputy Dinny McGinley, perhaps on the day we will also have an issue that can be addressed as Gaeilge by all Members fluent in Irish. The Senator also called for a debate on the community and voluntary sector. I will try to arrange such a debate.

Order of Business agreed to.
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