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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 13 Feb 2013

Vol. 221 No. 2

Order of Business

The Order of Business is No. 1, address to the House by Ms Phil Prendergast, MEP, in accordance with the arrangements passed by a motion of the House on 12 February 2013; No. 2, Industrial Development (Science Foundation Ireland)(Amendment) Bill 2012 - Committee Stage, to be taken at 2.30 p.m. and adjourned at 4.15 p.m., if not previously concluded; No. 3, Child Care (Amendment) Bill 2013 - all Stages, to be taken at 4.15 p.m. and conclude not later than 5.30 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons in the debate on Second Stage not to exceed six minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed three minutes, the Minister to be given five minutes to reply not later than 5.10 p.m., and Committee and Remaining Stages to be taken immediately thereafter; No. 34, Private Members' business, motion No. 13 re the national lottery, to be taken at 5.30 p.m. and conclude not later than 7.30 p.m.

I propose an amendment to the Order of Business, namely, that the Minister for Finance would come to the House to inform us what actions he proposes to take to deal with the mortgage arrears emergency which now faces the country. I mentioned it briefly yesterday. The rhetoric has continued into today whereby the Governor of the Central Bank has been on the airwaves suggesting that the reality is that mortgage arrears are at unprecedented levels.

It is now 18 months since the publication of the Keane report and its proposals. We acknowledged and welcomed some innovative proposals it contained such as split mortgages and mortgage-to-rent schemes. I gave an example in the House yesterday of acting as an intermediary for a couple where the bank is simply not interested in taking such an approach. That is hardly surprising as I learned today that since the proposals were drawn up 18 months ago, only one mortgage-to-rent scheme had come into effect as of the end of 2012. That is simply unacceptable. Only 12 split mortgages have been proposed. This is at a time when 180,000 residential mortgages are in arrears.

While we can talk the talk in here, other than the spin, absolutely nothing is happening on the ground.

The Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Brian Hayes, was in here last week to say the Government is unhappy with the banks and their attitude to dealing with this issue. The Governor of the Central Bank stated at the weekend that many people cannot pay and that distressed mortgages were not being dealt with in sufficient numbers and that is why they are tearing out their hair. Actions speak louder than words and the Legislature supplied the tools to the banks to deal with these difficulties in an innovative way. With the sort of derivatives they designed to help us lose so much money over the last number of years, surely the same minds can come together to design a solution for those families that are suffering so much all over Ireland.

Yesterday, I gave the example that as a State we secured longer term rates and lending for our borrowing which will ease the pain of the Government and the people as we prepare future budgets. Why then can the banks not do the same? Underlying all of this fear and uncertainty for families is the reality that some of these loan books may be sold to vulture fronts, beyond the bounds of the code of conduct on mortgage arrears and beyond the bounds of any interest rates in this country. People may be forced to pay higher rates and be denied the protection of normal regulations.

This is not a political issue because all sides of the House agree. It is three years since I started this debate from the other side of the House and Senator Healy-Eames and others who were then in opposition contributed many worthy solutions to the issue. All we have had, however, is rhetoric and no action. That is why we are calling for this amendment to the Order of Business and we hope the Minister for Finance, who has made himself available to this House so often, can come in because this is a national emergency.

I am sure Senator MacSharry is unhappy nothing is happening on the ground. It is like his unhappiness that nothing was happening on the ground with the promissory notes.

I am disappointed that the draft HSE report on the death of Savita Halappanavar has been leaked. We talked a great deal in this House about her death, its consequences and the difficulties it caused for her husband Praveen. This is yet another difficulty for him. The report could and should have been kept confidential until next week when it is due to be published. I am profoundly disappointed at the leaking of the report.

I appreciate and applaud the fact the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine is meeting his fellow Ministers in Brussels today on the horsemeat scandal. He was generous with his time before the joint committee last week. Now the story has progressed, he might find the time to come into the House. There much to discuss on this issue and there are many unanswered questions and issues to be faced in future, not least country of origin labelling, which should be brought into force even sooner than planned. Clearly there is a problem with the provenance of horses and a new system must be put in place for horsemeat traceability. We have a gold standard traceability system in this country for beef and we need as a matter of urgency to implement a similar gold standard across Europe for horsemeat. I urge the Minister to find the time to have that discussion with us.

I wish those people well who are perhaps trying to give up smoking today. I feel strongly about the incidence of cancer. The public consultation committee report showed that lung cancer is still the second most common cancer in Ireland, with people dying every day as a result. I wish well those who want to use Ash Wednesday as a good day to give up.

I thank the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government for the changes he made to the property tax, putting people those who are least able to pay in a better position.

A week ago, the British Parliament passed legislation about gay marriage. Yesterday, the French Parliament passed similar legislation, also by an overwhelming majority. It was described as a great and noble effort by the French Minister for Justice. This was done despite the machinations of the Roman Catholic Church, which gave its premises free of charge to house people and to mount campaigns in all its churches. It was really scraping the bottom of the barrel because this squalid crusade was led by a French comedienne by the name of Frigide Barjot. It is regrettable such things should continue to happen but, unfortunately, I am used to this attitude from the church.

We have recently heard about apologies to the Magdalen women, which I strongly support. I think people like myself are entitled to an apology too from the State, from the Roman Catholic Church in particular and from the Pope, who every Christmas Eve gave a message of disdain for gay people that stung and hurt so many vulnerable people throughout the world. When I say an apology, I say that in the context that some of the Magdalen women said the most bitter thing for them was that all the lovely experiences of their youth were taken from them. They were taken from people of my generation too. I have known eight people who were murdered simply because they were gay. The number of people who became addicted to alcohol and who through depression took their own lives is considerably greater. The Magdalen women described their experience as being like imprisonment. During my lifetime - I have witnessed this - people were imprisoned, they were actually placed in jail by the State because of their sexual orientation. They were actually tortured. I have dealt with people who were subjected to involuntary electroconvulsive therapy and who were fed violent chemical emetics to change their orientation.

We are in danger of those sorts of reactionary church forces engaging once more because they are going to lose, as the church sees it, in this battle on abortion. Gay people may once more become the scapegoat, victims of a witch hunt, and the whipping boys. That is how the church sees this. It is one down and wants to score another. It is time people stood up and said it is intolerable that people who have been murdered, tortured and imprisoned without apology in this country should once again be made the punch bag of conservative forces.

I wish to raise the way the Department of Health has dealt with the medical card issue. Despite the pressures on the health services, more than 165,000 new medical cards were issued in 2012. As we sit here today, the two millionth medical card is about to be issued. The figures for 1 January 2013 indicate 1,984,000 medical cards or GP visit cards have been issued. It is an indication of how the Department and Government are dealing with the difficulties people are facing by making sure they have access to health care.

There has been a lot of criticism of the Minister for Health in the past two years. It is time we had a debate to highlight the progress that has been made in that time and to examine what needs to be done over the next two years to continue to provide, maintain and improve our health service. It is important to have that debate at an early opportunity because many of the negatives are being highlighted but none of the positives. Those positives are that despite the cutbacks and the financial pressures faced by the Government, we can still provide the services people require. Long may that continue but we should have that debate so I ask the Leader to ask the Minister for Health to come in and discuss this issue and see how we can further improve value for money.

As I noted previously, the cost of drugs increased by more than 230% in ten years. We must cut costs in this area and other areas, while ensuring services are maintained.

I second the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by Senator MacSharry. Last night, in his first State of the Union address of his second term, President Obama stated the following to a joint session of Congress: "We will launch talks on a comprehensive Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership with the European Union – because trade that is free and fair across the Atlantic supports millions of good-paying American jobs". I call on the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to use the Irish Presidency to quickly grasp this opportunity. A transatlantic free trade area offers enormous potential for companies in the United States and Europe, including Ireland. As a former Minister with responsibility for trade, I regard this as the best opportunity to come our way for some time. Ireland is in a very good position as Enterprise Ireland - it was known as An Bord Tráchtála when I was a Minister - is an excellent organisation and has a network in place in the United States. I ask that the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade come to the House to tease out the potential of such an agreement. President Obama's statement that the United States is initiating talks on securing a translatlantic deal is a significant offer. A debate in the Seanad would offer the Tánaiste a great opportunity to discuss one of the most important points of President Obama's comprehensive and tremendous speech to the American people. Ireland could benefit considerably from a transatlantic trade deal and I ask the Taoiseach and Tánaiste to grasp the opportunity it presents.

I raise an issue that was highlighted in the Dáil last night during the debate on a Fianna Fáil Party Private Members' motion, during which Deputy Martin demanded an apology from the Government. Responding on behalf of the Government, the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, cited the words of Sally Mulready from the Irish Women Survivors Support Network. Referring to the Fianna Fáil Party, Ms Mulready stated the following: "The Opposition party were in government for 14 years and throughout kept people like me away, refused to listen and blocked our path at every turn."

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader? We are not discussing what took place in the other House.

This matter is on the record. Perhaps Deputy Martin will come into the Seanad and apologise to the victims of the Magdalen laundries on behalf of the Fianna Fáil Party, rather than demanding the reverse. This Government introduced a committee to investigate the Magdalen laundries after years of inaction by the previous Fianna Fáil Government which refused to engage with the Magdalen survivors. Fianna Fáil Deputies have no intention of apologising for their party's inaction but perhaps the party's Senators will do so in this House. We have been told an apology should be forthcoming from the Government when the apology should come from the other side of the House.

I mentioned yesterday that we should have a discussion about the media and their relationship with the Garda Síochána on occasion. Leaks are not helpful to the cause of protecting the right of people to their reputation. Another area of the media that interests me is their use of opinion polls. Shakespeare once said that the Devil can cite scripture for his purpose. It often occurs to me that he can also cite opinion polls for his purpose. Groups on different sides of an argument frequently present opinion poll information in a manner that tricks members of the public. At the weekend, The Irish Times treated us to a story about an apparent massive surge in support for abortion. It stated that whereas only 23% of the population supported abortion in 1997, the figure had since risen to 77% or thereabouts. I took the trouble to read the relevant report in The Irish Times from 1997. While I do not have any quarrel with Stephen Collins, a perfectly reputable journalist who wrote last weekend's story, journalists cannot always be sure about what researchers assisting them or sub-editors and editors will do. When I checked the 1997 survey cited by The Irish Times at the weekend, I found that figures relating to many of the other groups who supported abortion under certain circumstances had been left out. In fact, the headline in 1997-----

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on how the media conduct themselves on serious issues. In 1997, The Irish Times ran a headline stating there was more than 70% support for limited abortion rights. The story presented by the newspaper last weekend was misleading.

The Irish Times is wrong on other matters also.

What we noticed in 2002, five years after the original survey, was that we had a very evenly matched debate in that year's referendum, which almost passed. When people are asked whether they support continued protection for the unborn consistent with all necessary medical care for women, a majority are found to be in favour of that position. It is time newspapers of record examined their record and asked whether they are not in danger of losing the confidence of the public if they insist and persist in presenting information that seems to be less about informing and more about securing certain political ends.

In fairness to Senator MacSharry, he has been consistent on the issue of mortgage arrears. However, I strongly urge more caution and less haste.

The Government could not be accused of haste.

We are discussing arrangements between banks and their clients that were entered into voluntarily. We know there are far too many mortgages in difficulty and they are becoming a bit of a problem.

They are a bit of a problem alright.

Please allow Senator Paul Coghlan to proceed without interruption.

Senators should pay heed to the Governor of the Central Bank who has made a strong statement on this matter. As Senator MacSharry is well aware, urgent discussions between the Central Bank and banks are taking place as we speak. The Governor of the Central Bank is upset that, despite everything that has occurred, the banks have not yet produced a policy for dealing with these matters. He expressed annoyance about this last weekend.

It is taking so long, it appears to be an attempt to break a record for the longest negotiations.

It is understandable that Senator MacSharry and his party would try to heighten-----

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Yes, I will ask it in a second. As the Cathaoirleach is aware, brevity is my middle name. I ask him to be patient for a moment. If the banks do not produce a policy, the Central Bank will issue them with a directive. It has been slow to do so for the very reason that the banks would then absolve themselves of all responsibility and implement the directive across the board, perhaps in a heavy-handed manner.

The Senator does not appear to have a question for the Leader.

I ask the Leader not to accept the proposed amendment because this is not a matter for the Minister for Finance and discussions between the Central Bank and banks are ongoing.

Yesterday was a bitter-sweet day for job creation in the State, including Waterford, my home city and that of the Leader. It was a good day in that Genzyme announced a welcome and significant capital investment in its Waterford plant, cementing hundreds of jobs in the city and south east. However, it was a bad day in that a large number of job losses were announced in B&Q stores across the State, including Waterford, and we also heard confirmation that 300 jobs will be lost in HMV stores.

A number of calls have been made for a debate on job creation.

It would be of value to this House to have a debate on the retail sector, a debate I have called for a number of times. The evidence indicates that the retail sector in the State is struggling. This is evidenced from the job losses not alone in Waterford but across the State, the number of shops closing and the many empty premises in the high streets in the cities. Many rural shops are also closing because of the austerity policies being pursued. The retail sector has not been given the attention or focus it deserves in terms of the Government's jobs action plan. I again ask for a debate on the retail sector.

I support all of the points made by Senator Norris in regard to how gay people in the State have been treated by the State and the church. As someone who fully supports gay marriage, I believe a debate on the issue would be a useful debate for this House to have.

Last night I watched "Prime Time" which explored the issue of wind energy and wind farm development, an issue in which I am deeply interested and which has been raised ad nauseam in this House by myself and Senator Whelan. Those Senators who watched that programme will have only seen the tip of the iceberg in terms of how wind farm developments affect people's lives. I was disappointed with that part of the programme last night.

I was also disappointed with the representatives of the Irish Wind Energy Association and Irish Farmers Association who were on the programme. They appeared to be laughing all the way to the bank in terms of the spin they are putting on this issue as regards job creation. This is big business. The wind energy sector is not concerned with how it affects people's lives. These people were not, unfortunately, challenged last night. I call on the Leader to invite the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to this House so that we can further discuss this issue. It is outrageous that consideration is being given to the erection in the middle of this country of more turbines than there are in the United Kingdom as a whole. There is a need for debate on this issue in the House.

I support the call of my colleague, Senator MacSharry, for an urgent debate on the mortgage issue which I raised yesterday with the Deputy Leader. While there has been plenty of activity on the part of the Government in this regard there has been no action. Senator Coghlan hopes that the Central Bank will do the job of Government and instruct the banks to do something to help struggling mortgage holders. The banks will do only one thing, namely, strive to make a profit. Helping people is not in their remit. It is the Government's job to help struggling mortgage holders. It needs to legislate in this regard and to do so immediately.

I call on the Leader to provide time for a debate on the issue of food and food protection for the consumer given the current scandal of the detection of horsemeat in processed food. There is also a need for discussion on the additives which, under EU law, are permitted to be included in processed foods. MSG, one of the preservatives most widely used by food producers, is known to cause obesity, which as my colleagues involved in the all-party committee which met in the Seanad will know, is one of the greatest problems facing this country. Currently, one in five Irish children under three years of age is obese and one in three adults will be obese within a number of years.

I note that the NATO chief has invited Ireland to co-operate on operations and the Government's invitation to a large number of people to come to Ireland to speak on greater European integration. While Catherine Day referred recently to "more Europe" rather than "federal Europe" I believe the latter is what she meant. The NATO chief now invites Ireland to collaborate. We all know what happens to collaborators.

I have heard that extracts of the report on the tragic death of Savita Halappanavar, which was commissioned by the Minister for Health, will be published in today's Evening Herald. I understand the Minister has not yet received that report. No doubt it will make for difficult reading for Savita's family. I am sure it will contain recommendations which all of us should take seriously and consider in time rather than react to in a knee-jerk fashion, as has been the case recently in regard to the publication of other reports. We should remain calm and reflect seriously on the report into the tragic death of Ms Halappanavar.

I support Senator Kelly's remarks on wind energy. I call on the Leader to invite the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to the House to specifically discuss the issue of renewable energy and the proposals for wind farms in the midlands. It is an issue for all of us to discuss from an economic point of view and in terms of impact on local communities. I also watched "Prime Time" last night. I have been following the debate on this issue, about which I have many concerns, as I am sure does the Minister. These concerns need to be aired in public. The Seanad is the ideal forum to do so. Issues such as, for example, whether the jobs promised will materialise need to be discussed. The Minister has also expressed concern in this regard and proposes to commission a report on the matter. It can be taken for granted that wind turbines will not be manufactured in this country as we do not have the expertise or other skills required to do so. Other countries are way ahead of us in this regard. We need to know in what areas jobs will be created and what will be the benefit to local communities and Ireland Inc. in terms of meeting our renewable energy targets in 2020. We also need to look in this regard at the UK to which we are now tied following the memorandum. It is important there is continued debate on this issue in the House.

The Consumers Association of Ireland recently highlighted that many of the gas heating systems fitted in thousands of homes throughout the country had been fitted by unregistered contractors. I ask the Leader to clarify with the Minister or the insurance industry if difficulties or fire as a result of faulty installation will be covered by household insurance. While one can appreciate that cash strapped householders may have availed of the services of unregistered contractors because they could do the job cheaper, they may find themselves in a difficult situation in the event of claim. This matter requires clarification by the Minister and the insurance industry. It is an issue of grave concern to those people who availed of the service of unregistered contractors. I note that while some 20,000 gas appliances were fitted in 2011, only 17,000 were fitted by registered contractors. There is a need for clarification on this issue in terms of peace of mind for householders.

I welcome the announcement this morning by the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, which appears to indicate a radical change in the manner in which public procurement will be undertaken in this country. In reality, there are far too many people in the Civil Service engaged in this practise. It appears that the Minister has the power under the Croke Park agreement to redeploy such workers. I welcome this streamlining of the public procurement process. Currently, this function is carried out by approximately 600 or 700 people, which is completely over the top. It would be more appropriate to have fewer people with the relevant expertise performing this function. Cost savings is obviously the main driver in this regard. However, there needs to be a social conscience aspect to the decision making in our public procurement process to ensure the selection of Irish producers and service providers over multinational or foreign companies, even where the cost of doing so is slightly higher.

Obviously, there are EU laws on the free movement of goods and services, competition, etc. No one is encouraging the breaking of the law, but we must find a way to support Irish businesses. The House could debate the issue of public procurement with the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, in the near future.

Recently, there has been a great deal of media coverage of alcohol abuse. One factor that has often been pinpointed is the amount of alcohol consumed at home as opposed to in pubs. I had a brainwave. If one goes into a pub for a whiskey or a gin, one knows the exact measure. If it is small, the amount is 4 cl. A large one is twice that. At home, however, people have no such controls. How many of us when visiting someone's home have been prevailed upon to take a whiskey, only to find a naggin-full in our hands? We do not like refusing people.

Is lemonade being poured?

Will the Leader consider raising a suggestion with the Minister for Health? When delivering their produce to off-licences around the country, would Irish distillers be prepared to include small, single measures? It would not need to be elaborate, silver, pewter or anything else. It could be a small, cheap, plastic single measure.

When people have a drink or are giving guests a drink, they will know exactly how much they are pouring. If people wanted a second drink, they would be more than welcome to get one. This is a good idea. One of the cheaper scotch whiskys used to do it via a screw-off top that was actually a British measure, which was slightly smaller than ours. Perhaps Irish distillers might take up this idea. It would be good in terms of control and could encourage people to realise the dangers of pouring large amounts of liquor at home. Naturally, the best place to drink is in the pub.

Good on Senator O'Sullivan.

I would certainly accept an invitation to Senator O'Sullivan's house. Before I raise a matter with the Leader, I congratulate the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, on yesterday's announcement of changes to the community involvement scheme, CIS, and the increase in the grant from 20% to 50%, dependent on the level of cash invested by the people living on the roads in question or whether they undertake some of the work with the councils. This is the only way that some roads in rural Ireland can be surfaced. I welcome the Minister's announcement.

Some time ago, the Minister announced that the local improvement scheme, LIS, would be reintroduced and that the councils would have the discretion to decide how much money to invest in same from their local road funds.

Will the Leader arrange a debate on yet another proposed takeover of Aer Lingus by Ryanair in the past week? The 43 slots in Heathrow are at stake, do not let anyone say otherwise. Interestingly, it cost Aer Lingus nearly €10 million to fight takeover bids last year alone, and €40 million in the past three years. While Aer Lingus is in profit, these amounts constitute a loss to a private company in which the State has a stake. It is ridiculous that €40 million has been wasted. It is for the Government to decide whether Aer Lingus will be taken over in the form of the sale of State assets.

We need a debate on transport, particularly air transport. Ryanair offered a three-year loan of €100 million to another company to try to get the second company into position to take over the Aer Lingus routes at Heathrow Airport. A debate would be worthwhile. The action to date has been a waste of money for Aer Lingus, never mind what Ryanair has spent.

I wish to raise an important issue that was highlighted on world epilepsy day last Monday, namely, that 50% of Ireland's population still believes that a stigma is associated with epilepsy and that one in every five people would not hire someone who suffers from epilepsy. This is a serious matter in 2013. It has to do with the perception of people with disabilities and their ability to do a job properly and professionally. The question of people's attitudes would be worth consideration as part of the public consultation process in Seanad Éireann. We should consider holding a module on attitudes and perceptions surrounding people with disabilities in the workplace. Someone who has qualified and graduated and who has the skillset to do a job should not be discriminated against because he or she has a disability with which he or she has always lived and learned to cope.

I will not support the amendment to the Order of Business. The Minister for Finance has made himself readily available to the House numerous times. The latest was last Thursday between 3 a.m. and 6 a.m., when he could easily have sent a Minister of State. No one would have argued with him had he done that. In light of his commitment to parliamentary politics and this Parliament's workings, he spent three hours in the House debating the emergency legislation. The amendment is disingenuous.

That said, the issues raised are important.

The Senator has gone over time.

Last week a constituent contacted me who had a chain of correspondence with one of the country's delinquent banks about her mortgage and her attempts to put a payment plan in place.

The Senator should table this as an Adjournment matter.

Bring it up with the Minister whenever it suits him to return.

Senator Martin Conway has gone way over time.

Unfortunately, she was not responded to by the delinquent financial institution in the appropriate manner.

Like Senator Noone, I compliment my constituency colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, on the issue of public procurement. It has been announced for some time, but 60% of small and medium-sized enterprises, SMEs, are still no registered. Today's call is to ensure that they register and are made aware of the fact of the scheme's existence.

I support Senator Norris's point in his fine speech, if one is allowed to make speeches on the Order of Business.

Does Senator Keane have a question for the Leader?

I do. The issue should be debated in the House as quickly as possible, since some believe that they are punching bags for conservative forces. The Senator has been ploughing a lonely furrow, but it is not as lonely now.

I stood to discuss the wind. Senator Kelly mentioned that he had watched last night's "Prime Time" programme.

Senator Keane has been blown off course.

I also watched it. Senator Kelly forgot to mention what the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, stated on the programme. We must be careful about wind. A debate is necessary, but we must also ensure that we have the facts. I am a supporter of wind energy. I do not want there to be scaremongering before all of the facts are available. Size matters in wind energy. Small may be beautiful, but the wind might not blow all of the time.

The conference in Dublin Castle on 21 and 22 June will be a major event. It is the first time that there will be such a large open forum on this matter in Ireland. I urge everyone to become informed instead of scaremongering. As the Minister stated, a woman wrote to him - actually, I do not know if she wrote, but Senators can check what he said on television - and claimed that her hair was falling out because of fracking in Leitrim. There is no fracking in Leitrim, and there probably will not be. Scaremongering is not welcome.

Senator Marc MacSharry raised the question of mortgage arrears which we have discussed numerous times in recent months. I agree with him that banks are not doing enough in this regard, as the Governor of the Central Bank has made perfectly clear. More pressure will need to be placed on them, which I understand is being done by the Government and the Central Bank. I do not propose to accept the amendment to the Order of Business, as we have discussed the matter numerous times. It is an issue to which we can revert soon.

Senators Susan O'Keeffe and Deirdre Clune mentioned the draft HSE report.

Unfortunately, it has been leaked to the press. It is most regrettable that leaks occur on subjects as important as this one. I do not know what purpose they serve.

It leaves people's professional reputations impugned.

It is very regrettable.

Senator Susan O'Keeffe also raised the question of requesting the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Marine to come to the House. As the House knows, the Minister is meeting his fellow Ministers in Brussels. I agree totally with the Senator that the labelling issue which we have discussed in the House needs to be discussed again. We have wonderful traceability in this country, but it needs to be extended throughout Europe. I note the Senator's points and we will try to arrange for the Minister to come to the House as soon as he can do so.

On this day, Ash Wednesday, I note the Senator's points on smoking. I hope we will have a debate on the Seanad public consultation report soon. It is an excellent report and has been recognised as such by all the people involved in it, especially the director of cancer services nationally and quite a number of organisations. It is imperative that we have a debate on it in early course.

I note the point made by Senator David Norris. He has mentioned that gay people are again becoming the punch bag for conservative forces. I can assure him that the Government will certainly be no part of these conservative forces-----

Gay people have not been protected in the past and we will certainly do everything to ensure that will not happen.

Senator Colm Burke has referred to the fact that almost 2 million medical cards have been issued to date. There is much good news in the health service, as well as difficulties. The Senator also mentioned the question of the value for money secured in the health service. I will endeavour to arrange for the Minister to come to the House for a debate encompassing many areas. We should have such a debate soon.

Senator Terry Leyden referred to the transatlantic free trade area between the European Union and the USA. I note his points in that regard.

Senator Jimmy Harte referred to the Magdalen laundries in the context of a point made in the other House. I hope to have a debate on the Magdalen laundries next week and the Senator can make the points he raised during that debate.

Senator Rónán Mullen raised the question of the media, the Garda and its relationship with the media and opinion polls, the latter being only a snapshot at a particular point in time. We have had a debate on the media and media standards and perhaps we might have another some time soon.

I note the points made by Senator Paul Coghlan on the banks.

Senator David Cullinane referred to Genzyme, a factory in Waterford, in which there are 500 jobs. The €44 million injection of capital into the company for new machines will copperfasten these 500 jobs and probably create many more. It is down to the ingenuity and productivity of the workforce in Waterford that we have had such investment by Sanofi, one of the major pharmaceutical companies in the world.

I note the Senator's points on the job losses in B&Q and HMV which are most regrettable. We have had a number of debates on job creation, but I will ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, if he can come to the House to discuss job creation in the retail sector.

Senators John Kelly, Deirdre Clune and Cáit Keane raised the matter of wind energy and wind farms. I have asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, to come to the House for such a debate, but I have not yet got a date from him as to when he can do so.

Senator Mark Daly raised the issues of safe food and obesity levels. These matters can be encompassed in the debate we will have on the public consultation report.

Regarding the points the Senator made on Europe, I am sure he will be in the House to make these points later. Ms Phil Prendergast, MEP, will be here after the Order of Business and the Senator can make these points to the former Senator.

Senator Michael Mullins raised the issue of gas heating systems installed by non-registered contractors and referred to the need for the insurance issue to be clarified. We will try to obtain clarification for the Senator on the exact position in that regard.

I note the points made by Senators Catherine Noone and Cáit Keane on the announcement made by the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, on public procurement. The Minister of State might come to the House soon to discuss these changes with us.

Senator Ned O'Sullivan raised the issue of alcohol, including the provision of a measure with spirits sold in off-licences. I agree that that is something that should be encouraged, but as to whether we can do it, we will raise the issue with the Minister for Health and any other Minister dealing with consumer affairs to determine if such an item could be included when spirits are being sold.

Senator Pat O'Neill called for a debate on air transport. I will take up that matter with the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Leo Varadkar.

Senator Martin Conway raised the issue that one in five employers would not hire people with epilepsy. That is very sad and I agree with him that it is to do with attitudes and people's perceptions of people with disabilities. It is an issue that should be addressed in the House and I will arrange a debate on it.

I do not propose to accept the amendment to the Order of Business.

Senator Marc MacSharry has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That a debate with the Minister for Finance on mortgage arrears be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Amendment put:
The Seanad divided: Tá, 10; Níl, 26.

  • Barrett, Sean D.
  • Cullinane, David.
  • Daly, Mark.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • MacSharry, Marc.
  • Mooney, Paschal.
  • Norris, David.
  • Ó Clochartaigh, Trevor.
  • O'Sullivan, Ned.
  • Wilson, Diarmuid.

Níl

  • Brennan, Terry.
  • Burke, Colm.
  • Clune, Deirdre.
  • Coghlan, Eamonn.
  • Coghlan, Paul.
  • Comiskey, Michael.
  • Conway, Martin.
  • Cummins, Maurice.
  • D'Arcy, Jim.
  • D'Arcy, Michael.
  • Gilroy, John.
  • Harte, Jimmy.
  • Healy Eames, Fidelma.
  • Higgins, Lorraine.
  • Keane, Cáit.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Moloney, Marie.
  • Mulcahy, Tony.
  • Mullen, Rónán.
  • Mullins, Michael.
  • Noone, Catherine.
  • O'Keeffe, Susan.
  • O'Neill, Pat.
  • Quinn, Feargal.
  • van Turnhout, Jillian.
  • Whelan, John.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Ned O'Sullivan and Diarmuid Wilson; Níl, Senators Paul Coghlan and Susan O'Keeffe.
Amendment declared lost.
Order of Business agreed to.
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