Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 27 Mar 2013

Vol. 222 No. 7

Order of Business

Senator Maurice Cummins

The Order of Business is No.1, Health (Alteration of Criteria for Eligibility) Bill 2013 - Second Stage, to be taken at 2 p.m. and conclude not later than 4 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed six minutes and the Minister to be called upon to reply not later than 3.50 p.m.; No. 29, motion No. 10 re philanthropy and fund-raising, to be taken at 4 p.m. and conclude not later than 6 p.m; and No. 2, Courts Bill 2013 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to be taken at 6 p.m. and adjourn not later than 8 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed six minutes.

That is the Order of Business for today but it would be remiss of the House if we did not acknowledge the fact that Jimmy Walsh of The Irish Times, the reporter who has covered this House so well for many years, is retiring tomorrow. In his fledgling days, Jimmy was one of the reporters who covered the visit of President Kennedy to Ireland. He joined the press corps in the Houses of the Oireachtas more than 40 years ago, initially covering proceedings in the Dáil and then covering Seanad proceedings for more than 20 years.

Jimmy is the old style reporter, with his notebook, pen, typewriter and shorthand. I believe his shorthand is excellent. I was always amazed by his retention and memory for details that happened many years ago. He has covered this House with distinction and we owe him a debt of gratitude for his honest and accurate reporting of events in it. He will be missed by all of us.

Whether the newspaper will replace Jimmy, I do not know, but it is only right and proper that we acknowledge the work he has done in covering events here. I hope when he retires tomorrow that he will not cut all ties with the House and that he will come back and visit at regular intervals. As he was presented with a pass for the Houses up to 2016 by the Ceann Comhairle yesterday, there is no reason he would not be in a position to visit at regular intervals and we look forward to his company during that time. I express our gratitude and thanks to Jimmy for his coverage, work and the friendships he has built up over many years in the House.

Senators

Hear, hear.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I was going to acknowledge formally the presence of the mighty Jimmy in the Press Gallery on this special occasion but the round of applause beat me to it.

Senator Marc MacSharry

Before normal hostilities resume, our group would also like to acknowledge the true greatness of our friend and the great friend of the House, Jimmy Walsh. In my 11 years here, my experience, which would reflect that of us all, has been that he has been an innately decent man who has been a great friend to the Seanad, the only one it has had. From a journalistic perspective, that is a simple fact that is widely acknowledged. The House has been very lucky to have the expertise of Jimmy Walsh and the honesty and professionalism he has always shown in reporting.

On a personal level, Jimmy is the true definition of the honourable profession and traditions of journalism in reporting the facts as they should be reported, rather than as so often happens with so-called modern journalists who like to put a particular complexion on one side or the other of the facts. That is foreign to Jimmy and it is something younger or so-called more modern journalism could look to as an example and learn a little how well the business was done over the years. He will be missed and I invite the Leader to see if the Taoiseach would take the opportunity, with one of the Taoiseach's 11 nominee places vacant, to make Jimmy a Member of the House. God knows, he has the experience to make a very valuable contribution, having reported the House so well over the years.

As far as Fianna Fáil is concerned, Jimmy Walsh is all graces and no airs. We hope he enjoys his retirement and will be a regular visitor to the House.

Will I continue with the points I want to raise now?

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

We will continue with the Order of Business. I remind the House that last week a number of Senators spoke glowingly about Jimmy Walsh and I do not want a repeat. Those who have not mentioned him, particularly the leaders of the groups, will have some latitude.

Senator Marc MacSharry

I realise time is short with the Easter recess approaching, but an urgent debate is required on the insolvency guidelines and how they will be dealt with by the personal insolvency service. There are mixed messages from Government and very worrying reports in the media. At the weekend, one newspaper indicated that women would be forced to give up their work if child care could not be afforded. On Monday the Taoiseach said, "I would find it quite incredible that somebody will say 'You are required to give up work in order to meet these charges'." That gave some hope and solace to the many women throughout the country who were concerned after reading about this in the Sunday newspapers, only for that to be dashed by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport saying clearly that women who were not in a position to pay for child care would have to give up their jobs.

We think this is fundamentally wrong. It is reminiscent of a day when women who were blessed with pregnancy were forced to leave the Civil Service. Women cannot help but wonder what the plan is within the Government in terms of assisting women in the workforce. We have had cuts to child care, the taxation of maternity benefit and now the suggestion that someone who cannot afford child care must give up her job, with a senior Minister contradicting the Taoiseach on it. One wonders what is next. Are we to take the vote off women altogether? This is worrying and in the interests of the women of Ireland, we must have a debate in order to have clarity on the issue because we cannot have senior Ministers and the Taoiseach contradicting each other on it. I do not think it is appropriate either that a Government should set up an insolvency service that would preside over a situation whereby women would be forced to stay at home rather than being supported in the workforce through the provision of the necessary child care, which I imagine the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs would like to see, given that she has indicated she would like to see the provision of a second free preschool year. She should press ahead with that as a matter of urgency rather than the reports we have seen in recent days suggesting women will have to give up work.

There are reports today, following the conference of the AGSI where a number of members walked out as a protest, that those members might have disciplinary action taken against them. That would be highly regrettable. Members of the Garda have limited tools at their disposal to highlight the difficulties they have at any one time. Surely within the confines of their own conference, they should be entitled to register their protest in such a peaceful and meaningful way. I would regret very much if the Garda Commissioner felt it necessary to take disciplinary action against those members.

Senator Ivana Bacik

I would also like to begin by paying tribute to Jimmy Walsh on the occasion of his retirement this week. With most other Senators, I attended the wonderful event yesterday to celebrate his distinguished career.

The Leader referred to his excellent shorthand skills, his many experiences and the great distinction with which he covered the Seanad. He also covered many other events, including the visits of President Kennedy, which he spoke about graphically, and President Reagan, which he spoke about with eloquence and wit. Jimmy's reports are noted for being honest, accurate and impartial and Senators will agree that his reporting has done the Seanad and the institution of Leinster House a great service. He provided a fair account of the proceedings, which are often overlooked by other newspapers and media outlets. All of us will miss his regular reporting and the wit and banter we experience when we bump into him on a corridor. He is a true raconteur and gentleman and I will miss him greatly. I express this tribute to him on my behalf and on behalf of the Labour Party group. I express also my gratitude to him for the long service he has given in reporting on the Seanad. I wish him and his family well on his retirement and what will be, I hope, the next stage in a very distinguished career. We would all welcome the publication of a memoir detailing some of his experiences and recounting some anecdotes for the greater enjoyment of the public. I thank Jimmy very much.

I welcome the launch today of the report on penal reform by the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality. I was the rapporteur for the Sub-committee on Penal Reform, which spent 18 months examining how best to reform the prison system. It examined, in particular, end-of-sentence strategies and how to ensure greater rehabilitation of prisoners. We finished the report in February and it was adopted unanimously by the full joint committee. Launched this morning, the report makes five practical, sensible and credible recommendations for improving the penal system, in particular, the adoption by government of a decarceration strategy to reduce prisoner numbers and penal system's reliance on prison. I ask that the Minister for Justice and Equality come before the House for a debate on the report now that it has been published. While the joint committee will also engage with the Minister as it seeks to have the report's recommendations implemented, the document should also be debated in the Seanad, especially given the active role a number of colleagues, including the Leas-Chathaoirleach and Senators Conway and Zappone, played on the sub-committee in producing it. Such a debate would be good.

The draft insolvency guidelines have been the subject of media reporting. Writing in The Sunday Business Post, Niamh Connolly raised the concern that the draft guidelines suggest that people who are paying for child care should give up jobs if their child care costs are higher than their income. I strongly disagree with any suggestion by any insolvency service or Minister that any man or woman should have to give up work for this reason. Senator van Turnhout spoke about the value of early childhood education and its importance to children. It would be wrong to suggest that insolvency guidelines would force people to give up work. No parent should be required to do this. It would be an utterly short-sighted approach given that while child care costs are especially high for preschool children, as I know from personal experience, they reduce substantially when a child begins school. It would be short-sighted for a parent to give up work on the basis that his or her income would be only slightly more or even slightly less than the cost of child care for a short number of years. Long-term careers and employment are much more valuable than this. The idea that someone would be forced to give up work on that basis is wrong.

Senator Jillian van Turnhout

On behalf of the Independent group of Senators, I pay tribute to and thank Jimmy Walsh. As I will have only been a Member for two years in May next, my memories of Jimmy do not go back as far as those of other speakers. However, I used to read Jimmy's accounts of Seanad proceedings before I entered the Oireachtas and had the opportunity to meet the legend. I thank him most sincerely for his advice and the insights he gave me in the corridors of Leinster House. His journalistic skills are clear. He is able to get to the heart of an issue and understand what speakers are driving at. He has given me great encouragement in my work as a Senator, including, on occasion, to press a little harder on certain issues as perhaps I seek consensus a little too much. We will, however, leave that issue for another discussion. Even in the relatively short time I have known Jimmy, I feel I have made a real friend, someone who will give critical advice but also explain in his newspaper articles what takes place in the House. I echo the tributes paid to him.

The issues of insolvency and early childhood education and care must be decoupled. The latter is about the child, not the status of his or her parents or whether they are working. We need to decouple these issues and discuss them separately.

On the issue of direct provision, last Saturday The Irish Times featured an excellent article by Breda O'Brien under the title "Inhumane asylum seeker system needs radical reform". A letter by Dr. Joan Giller in today's edition of the same newspaper is a must-read for all of us as it provides a marvellously accurate account of the harrowing system of direct provision offered in this country. Given that Dr. Giller has worked in direct provision accommodation since 2007, her comments are not hearsay. I have raised the issue of direct provision several times, primarily on the Adjournment, and recently took it upon myself to visit the direct provision accommodation in Hatch Hall as well as a site in Athlone located behind a Department of Education and Skills building which houses 100 mobile homes for asylum seekers. I was accompanied by Senators Fiach Mac Conghail and Katherine Zappone.

I refer to the work done on this issue by a group of committed Senators from all parties and none. As such, this not a party political issue. I call on the Leader to arrange a debate on the system of direct provision, in particular, to address the appropriateness of direct provision for the welfare and development of the 1,725 children who have been in the system not for one or two months but several years. When we speak of institutionalising people, we should not forget this is being done now. I call for the establishment of an independent complaints mechanism and inspection system for direct provision centres. The Government's Special Rapporteur on Child Protection called for such a system to be introduced one year ago. Let us debate and face up to this issue as it can no longer be tolerated. Will we wait for another 20 years to have another Ryan report published, this time on direct provision?

Senator Paul Coghlan

One of the most pleasant functions to have taken place in the House occurred yesterday when many of us saluted the great stalwart, Jimmy Walsh, in the private dining room. I salute the fine words spoken by colleagues in tribute to Jimmy. Yesterday's function was proper, correct, fitting and very nice. It was ably chaired by Fionnan Sheahan who was a wonderful master of ceremonies. Stephen Collins, Michael O'Regan, the Cathaoirleach and Senators Cummins and Quinn related wonderful stories and anecdotes. I hope their words were recorded. We heard contributions about Jimmy's accuracy, superb note-taking and wonderful shorthand, all of which are true. His service to the House started more than 40 years ago in The Irish Press. I loved the story told by Michael O'Regan about Frank Aiken's funeral when all the Haugheyites were lined up on one side and all the Colleyites on the other. Whatever the arrangements were, the press corps deputed Jimmy, as the accurate note taker, to approach Mr. Haughey with the awkward questions about the arrangements and what Mr. Colley - God be good to both men - was to do. Jimmy, who was well known to Mr. Haughey from his role in the Oireachtas, approached and asked the question and Mr. Haughey bent his head and looked at Jimmy through hooded eyes.

Mr. Haughey, who knew Jimmy well, said "Who the - expletive deleted - are you?" Michael O'Regan noted that this was not reported by the press at the time but today, as he pointed out, it would have been emblazoned in full technicolour on the front page of several newspapers, with nothing left out. Mr. O'Regan went on to wonder how The Irish Times would report such an incident today and suggested that it might record that Mr. Haughey declined to comment, in colourful language. They were great stories and anecdotes and I hope that they are recorded, somehow. We have all enjoyed many a cup of tea in the bar with Jimmy Walsh over the years. I was delighted he was presented with lifetime membership and will continue to come in here among us, for as long as we are here. He made a joke himself about whether the Seanad or Jimmy Walsh would be abolished first. He should record the anecdotes and stories, some of which he told yesterday and many more of which he did not have time to tell us. I wish him long life and happiness.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I acknowledge the appreciation and time given to Jimmy Walsh but I do not want everyone to speak for four or five minutes on it.

Senator David Norris

It is remarkable how every time I stand up, the person in the Chair prefaces my remarks by expressing the hope that Senators will not speak for too long.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I was admonishing Senator Paul Coghlan for the length of his contribution but I was happy to give a certain amount of latitude him because he is almost the father of the House.

Senator David Norris

Absolutely and, unlike the Pope, the Leas-Chathaoirleach is always infallible in my book.

While I said a few words about Jimmy Walsh last week, I welcome the opportunity to say good things about him again today when he is actually in the Chamber. In a degraded profession, he has maintained extremely high standards. We must value the meticulousness with which he recorded the doings of this House and his brave, long and sometimes difficult fight to keep the paper of record on track in terms of recording the business of this House. When I entered the Seanad 25 years ago, it was regularly covered by a panel of reporters from The Irish Times and the business of the Seanad was given considerable coverage in all of the national newspapers, including the Irish Independent, The Irish Press and so forth but now it is treated as a matter of no significance. On "Oireachtas Report", for example, coverage of the Seanad is shunted to the very end, after coverage of the various Oireachtas committees, which is wrong.

The suggestion that Jimmy Walsh should become Senator Walsh is not a bad one at all because there is a vacancy and there may be another one if Senator Thomas Byrne wins a seat in the Dáil. The seat of former Senator Martin McAleese is vacant. Jimmy Walsh was always very careful not to show any bias and provided a meticulous and clear recording of what happened in this House. However, from personal conversations I have had with him, I know the values Jimmy has, which are humane, decent values of integrity. He believes very strongly in human rights on an international, as well as national, level. He would, through his political experience and his values, add very considerably to this House.

I also strongly support the suggestion that he should write a book. However, I do not think it should just be about anecdotes because there is far more to Jimmy Walsh than funny stories and entertaining quips. There is a substantial intellect there that parses and analyses affairs at a national and international level. He has much wisdom and insight, which for reasons of professionalism he often kept outside his reports. It would be very good to have the real Jimmy Walsh stand up and share his values, which are so necessary in this day and age.

Moving on to other matters, I wish to refer to the issue of child care. The situation is very clear in this regard. The cost of child care in this country is completely outrageous and ridiculous. The fact that people must pay more than their mortgage every month to have their children looked after is mad. Somebody should look at the cost of child care provision, which is the nub of the matter.

The main issue I wish to raise has been signalled previously to some of my colleagues and to the Leader. Last week I referred to the lack of solidarity being shown by the highest in the land and I believe it is important that the Seanad plays a role in this regard. We should be imaginative and do something to demonstrate clearly and publicly that the members of this House are in sympathy with the sufferings of the people. In that context, I propose that Seanad Éireann moves its sitting for at least one day in the next term to a town like Athlone, which is in the centre of the country and is readily accessible for all Senators. I suggest that Senators come to Dublin and then travel by bus to Athlone and hold a session there. We should formally open Seanad proceedings there and also engage in an exercise of listening to the people. I would suggest that we then go and see the people in the situations in which they find themselves, whether that be a soup kitchen or an employment agency, so that we can have a real connection with the people. This is not precluded by anything in the Constitution or the rules of this House but has never been done by either House. We, in Parliament, are seen as remote from the people. I respectfully ask the Leader to set an inquiry in motion to determine how this can be done. It would require proper preparation, including holding discussions with the relevant county council. It would be useful if we could use the offices of the county council in Athlone for this purpose. This would get press coverage and would make us accessible to the public. Having made this suggestion, I would be very interested to hear if my colleagues would support this idea and if the Leader is in a position to advance it.

Senator Denis Landy

I am sure Jimmy Walsh must be pinching himself to see whether he is still alive or listening to his own eulogy. I thank him for everything.

I wish to relay some good news which even the Opposition will welcome. Yesterday, in Boston, a young man called Ronan Kelly won the Irish Dance World Championship for the third year in a row. On his way to becoming world champion, he won the Irish and Scottish championships. He is the son of our colleague, Senator John Kelly, and I have a picture here of him receiving his world cup yesterday in Boston. It is fantastic-----

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Senators are not allowed to display printed material in the House. I am being very lenient on the Order of Business in allowing the Senator to congratulate someone but-----

Senator Denis Landy

Having done it, I apologise.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

That might be a cynical apology.

Senator Denis Landy

It is not cynical but sincere.

I ask the Leader to provide clarity on an issue I have raised on two previous occasions in this House, namely, the loss of €17 million to credit unions as a result of the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Act. There has been much toing and froing on this issue for the last six weeks. In recent days, the Fianna Fáil spokesperson on finance, Deputy Michael McGrath, has stated that the Minister for Finance, under section 9 of the aforementioned Act, can instruct the special liquidator to act outside of the normal liquidation process to deal with this issue. The Minister has informed the Dáil and the media that there is a fund available to the Credit Union Restructuring Board to assist credit unions and that this matter can be referred to that board. It appears, however, that this fund only covers credit unions whose funds drop below a certain value.

The credit unions affected will lose all except the first €100,000 of their money. The people affected by this are ordinary members of 16 credit unions, one of which is in my town. I ask the Leader to request the Minister to give us clarity on the matter once and for all. The Opposition claims there is a provision in the Act to deal with this. The Minister has not answered the question and we need an answer in order that the credit unions can deal with the matter in whatever way they need to and move on.

Senator David Cullinane

I wish Mr. Jimmy Walsh a very happy retirement. I am sure he will enjoy it and go on to do many things and there may be a great book in him. The three Sinn Féin representatives in the Seanad have only been here for a short time and would not know him as long as some of those who have been here for many years. In the short time we have been here we have become friends. We will miss his wit and banter as well as the gentle advice he gave us all. He had an extraordinary way of giving advice in a gentle way while at the same time getting the point across very strongly. I will sincerely miss that and I hope he will make use of the pass he has been given to come back and visit us. I do not believe we could all stand up with integrity and say that about every journalist. When we say it, it is sincere and genuine. He truly was impartial and genuine in what he did. He represented the people of the State very well in covering the Seanad and very few journalists have. I commend him on his work in that regard and wish him the very best of luck in his retirement.

"Stupid decision", "ham-fisted", "unfair" and "a complete mess" were some of the terms used by Labour Party Deputies and Senators in recent weeks in describing the property tax and I agree with all of them. Extraordinary powers have been given to a number of Departments on this property tax. The Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government can take money from people's grants. The Department of Agriculture, Food and Marine can take money from people's farming payments and grants. The Revenue Commissioners have been given extraordinary powers. The Department of Social Protection can take money from people's social welfare payments and pensions. Yesterday one of the Labour Party Senators asked us to celebrate that granny flats will not be subject to a property tax, which is good. However, many grannies and granddads own their own homes and will have to pay this unfair tax. Many of them simply do not have the money to do it.

I wish to put a direct question to the Leader of the House. As a public representative - I am sure every Senator would say the same - I meet people who are making tough decisions every day about which bills to pay. They sit in our offices and ask us which bill they should pay because they cannot cope, especially if they are on social welfare or low pay. They are going without heating oil despite the current low temperatures. They need oil in their tanks but cannot find the money to buy it. They cannot find the money to pay utility bills. They are barely paying their mortgages and many of them are in mortgage arrears. However, none of them is exempt from this tax. They are all being asked to pay and the money simply is not there. What advice would the Leader give these people? Where will they get the money? Even though there is a deferral option for very low-income families, the Government in a disgraceful and cynical way will charge them interest of 4%, thereby penalising low-paid people because they cannot afford to pay.

I again call for a debate on the property tax. The penny is now dropping with many families that this is coming and more and more people are recognising the unfairness of the tax. We should have a debate not just on the property tax but also the alternatives to it. There are fairer ways to increase taxation and I call on the Leader to arrange that debate as soon as possible.

Senator Cáit Keane

As I spoke the last day about Mr. Jimmy Walsh, I will not dwell on it other than to wish him the very best in his retirement. He has so much to offer. We always talk about the lack of coverage of the Seanad in the media. Perhaps having somebody inside who knows the scene and how to do it best might not be a bad idea.

I have been speaking on child care for the past 20 years in public. I was on the first expert group on child care established in the 1990s. It is a regressive step for a Minister to express any doubt. In fairness to the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, he did not speak about women and child care. He was speaking about the economic issue and would be interpreted as gender neutral. It was on the economy, on child care. I agree with Senators Bacik and van Turnhout, one of whom requested that child care be decoupled from the economic decision. Child care is about much more than economics - child care is about society. If we want a society to work, we need proper child care.

A Senator asked for reports, but we do not need any more reports. There are reports stacked high going back as far as the 1970s on the economic and social benefits of child care. Therefore, it is not an economic decision and social policy should not be left to bankers - it is a Government decision. The Minister, Deputy Varadkar, is being misquoted in reference to "women". He did not say "women" and that is my interpretation of it. It was on the issue of child care and economics. Every Minister should stand behind the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, who is doing a brilliant job. The report we had on child care outlined all the initiatives to be implemented that would save the Government money. It is absolutely brilliant. Everybody in government and opposition should support the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, and support the child-care initiatives that will bring the country forward. Ministers cannot be blamed when taken out of context in the gender issue.

I wish to raise one further issue.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

The Senator is-----

Senator Cáit Keane

I will leave it until tomorrow.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Some Members are already complaining because the Order of Business has become so elongated with the tributes to Mr. Jimmy Walsh, the journalist. Some Members are already getting frustrated, wondering when they will get in. Many speakers are offering and it will be the longest Order of Business in the history of the House.

I call Senator Jim Walsh.

(Interruptions).

Senator Jim Walsh

When I was first elected to this House in 1997, I realised that I was only an imposter as Jim Walsh. During the count my family were manning the counting of the votes - I must have been away in the bar or somewhere else when I got to the stage I could relax at the count. When I came back I was told that a man was waiting to meet me urgently but had not left his name. When I came back a second time, that man had returned and this time said he wanted to meet his namesake. I am not even sure if we met at that count, but I certainly got to know Mr. Jimmy Walsh afterwards.

Like all other Members of this House, I came to respect and like the genuineness of a reporter. Politicians often have a sense of suspicion when dealing people in the media - often with good reason. However, Mr. Jimmy Walsh stood out as a man who could be trusted and had good views. I concur to some extent with Senator Norris that if he could be a Member of this House, I would certainly like to welcome another republican among our midst. We got to know each other's political views over time, as I am sure many other Members have in sharing various stories and anecdotes. I also got to know some of my colleagues here who kept in frequent contact with Mr. Jimmy Walsh because I often got messages for him on my phone when I was in the five-storey block. Senator Norris was a particularly frequent caller and I always passed on his messages to Mr. Jimmy Walsh.

Senator Paul Coghlan

We never heard about that mobile phone.

Senator Jim Walsh

I join others in wishing Mr. Jimmy Walsh long life, health and happiness. Given how healthy and fit he is, I have no doubt he will be among us for a long time to come. I wish him well in the future.

I wish to raise one issue on the Order of Business, namely, political reform.

We have concentrated in this House on Seanad reform, but we could usefully have a debate on political reform within this democracy. It is extraordinary that, five years after the biggest economic crash this country has ever experienced, there has been no focus on overall political reform. What we have are token gestures, such as reducing the number of Deputies by a very small number, a proposal to abolish the Seanad and the abolition of town councils. That is not political reform. That is destroying and dismantling our political structures to no political or democratic benefit. Recently, the Committee of Public Accounts, probably the most important committee of the Oireachtas, received the two fingers from senior officials in the Department of Health and the Department of Justice and Equality. It is an absolute disgrace. It is one thing to live under a political elite that has been elected but which might be out of touch, but it is entirely different to live under bureaucrats who are unelected and who feel they are above accountability to Members of the Oireachtas. It is totally unacceptable. I ask the Leader to arrange an urgent debate on this issue. It is fundamental to our society and to democracy in this country.

Senator Catherine Noone

I join other speakers in paying tribute to Jimmy Walsh. I am a new Member of the House but since I became a Member he has been extremely encouraging. As another speaker said, he always gave a little advice and I took it on board. I join others in suggesting that he write a book. There is often talk about this but I hope he undertakes that project. We would all benefit from it. Humour is no harm but it could have both humour and facts-----

Senator David Norris

Yes, like my book.

Senator Catherine Noone

That is a plug for the Senator's book.

With regard to the child care issue, I agree with Senator Keane's comments. It would be regressive of this country to move in a direction in which we did not consider the social and lifestyle aspects that are so important to working. It goes without saying that people work for money. However, there is a much wider issue involved with people working and it is not all about women. I am getting tired of women being singled out in this type of scenario, because it should be gender neutral. That the bankers who contributed so hugely to this country's economic downfall would be making decisions on policy, as Senator Keane said, is absolutely outrageous.

Senator Fiach Mac Conghail

I endorse what my colleague, Senator van Turnhout, said about Jimmy Walsh. Again, I am a new Senator but I acknowledge his journalistic ability, particularly his ability to put in one sentence what it takes Senators 50 sentences to say. He has created an art form in itself.

Today is World Theatre Day, a day that Ireland can be proud to support. It was established in 1961. I ask the Leader to support my call to all Members to salute the many actors, playwrights, designers and technicians throughout Ireland who have contributed to Ireland's reputation through their craft and vocation of making and presenting theatre across Ireland and the world. Theatre is more than 2,000 years old, yet it continues to be supported by audiences and communities across the nation. It is a tough time for our actors and writers as they try to make a living, like other citizens, and to survive and contribute to society through their important medium. I ask all Members today to go and see a professional production by any Irish theatre company over the next few weeks to support our theatre artists.

I have just come from a briefing given by Dr. Abdelfattah Abusrour, which was arranged by Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan. He is president of the Palestinian Theatre League and founder of Al Rowwad, a theatre company in Palestine. He works in his native land of Palestine, which is occupied by Israel, and has no designated official nationality. He works with young people and theatre and calls it a beautiful resistance. It shows how theatre and arts can continue to be important in telling stories and bearing witness across the world.

I remind Senators that our motion this afternoon is about philanthropy and fund-raising. It is an important motion and I hope all Senators will contribute to the debate. There is a major conference today in Dublin on fund-raising, with over 300 people in attendance. I note that the Cabinet has accepted a proposal from the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, that new rules to encourage philanthropy should be considered. Can the Leader elaborate on this before we debate the motion this afternoon?

Senator John Whelan

Out of respect for the Chair and given the time constraints, I will park an issue I intended to raise and take this opportunity to commend and congratulate Jimmy Walsh. I have known him for many years and I count him as a colleague. As a journalist for 30 years, I am only in the penny ha'penny place compared to Jimmy, who has 52 years on the clock. One would not think that to look at him or meet him or when one sees his sharpness of intellect, his level of energy and his commitment and compassion in the job he holds. One does not see that in many jobs. I do not think Jimmy will mind me saying that he is probably old school. I say that in the best sense of those words. I have always looked up to him and the standards of fairness, honesty and accuracy he upheld. While we know that Jimmy is a highly opinionated and, perhaps, sometimes argumentative man, there was never an occasion when he worked with The Irish Press or The Irish Times that it filtered into his copy or was reflected in any type of bias or spin. However, one learns something new every day in this Seanad and I am a little taken aback to learn that he has been acting behind my back as a type of spin doctor to some of the Taoiseach's nominees. That is a revelation that I will take up with him at a later stage.

Jimmy is also unique and peculiar, perhaps in society but especially as a journalist, in not having a mobile phone. However, he manages to survive in the jungle that modern journalism has become and still has not missed a deadline or a story of any note.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

Or read one of the Senator's tweets.

Senator John Whelan

Indeed. I am certain Jimmy has a good book in him, if not a great book and bestseller, but knowing the calibre and integrity of the man, it will not be a kiss and tell book.

Senator Feargal Quinn

I cannot let the opportunity pass to say a few words about Jimmy Walsh also. As I have been a Member of the House for 20 years, I am very experienced in terms of knowledge and I have always been impressed by his ability to be able to remember and jot down so succinctly exactly what was said, sometimes in a mumble and occasionally very loudly. One could meet him in the corridor afterwards and ask him exactly what somebody had said because he knew it and had written it down and memorised it. I was impressed when I heard so many wish him well for the future. I hope he will be well. I had not realised until yesterday how fit he is, when I heard some of the stories about his ability to both jog and run very fast. He walks for two hours every morning before coming to work here. He makes a show of the rest of us. Long may he live and have the same energy and commitment he has shown in the last 52 years. I cannot believe it is that long.

Four years ago I introduced a Bill on organ donation. Will the Leader check if that Bill could be reintroduced now? We stopped the debate with two minutes to go because the then Minister said she wished to consult about it. By the end of that year the Bill had been dropped and we have not heard anything since. That is four, if not five, years ago. It would be great if we could do something about it. It deals with the opt out system. In other words, unless one opts out it is assumed that one is willing to have one's organs donated to save lives. I believe the reintroduction of that Bill is worthy of consideration. I ask the Leader for his advice on it. Perhaps he would check with the Minister to see whether that would be the right way to proceed.

I congratulate the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources on appointing Mr. Christoph Mueller as chairman of An Post.

This is a brilliant and worthy move. Mr. Mueller is clearly a very successful business person and he obtained a vast amount of experience in the relevant area before he came to Ireland. He is an exemplary individual and the perfect man for the job. I hope he succeeds.

Senator Michael Comiskey

I join colleagues in wishing Jimmy Walsh well in his retirement. I have been a Senator for less than two years and those of us who are relatively new to the House have come to know Jimmy very quickly. He always has a friendly smile and is willing to offer advice.

I welcome the news that the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, has agreed to send helicopters to the aid of farmers in Northern Ireland who are experiencing great difficulties as a result of the bad weather. It is good that we are going to help our friends and neighbours. The past year has been extremely difficult for the farming community and recent weeks have been very bad, particularly for those who live in Northern Ireland. It is good to witness this type of co-operation between the North and the South. In the past I have called for greater co-operation in respect of animal health issues. I welcome the fact that such co-operation will now be forthcoming and that assistance will be provided for farmers who are in difficulties.

Senator Diarmuid Wilson

Accusations to the effect that a great deal of hot air emanates from this Chamber are sometimes made. There is certainly no hot air coming from the radiators this morning.

I join colleagues in paying tribute to Jimmy Walsh. I have come to know Jimmy during the past 11 years and he is exactly as a number of previous speakers have noted, namely, very accurate, balanced and courteous. The title "Gentleman Jim" rests very easily on his shoulders. I wish Jimmy well in his retirement.

Senator Norris has stated people throughout the country are of the view that we in this House do very little. I wish to second his proposal that, for one day, we should move our operations to somewhere such as Athlone in order that the general public might see exactly what we do. This would afford us the opportunity to listen to the concerns of those who live in the surrounding community. As Senator Norris suggested, we might also take the opportunity to visit certain areas to which most of us would not normally have an opportunity to travel in the normal course of events. The Senator's proposal is extremely worthwhile and if it can be accommodated, then we should do as he suggests.

I wish to defend the Taoiseach. I was disappointed to read in one of this morning's newspapers that the other party in government has chosen to launch a personal attack on the Taoiseach. While most of us on this side of the House would disagree with many of the decisions the Government has taken, the Taoiseach is merely the chairman of the Cabinet. That Cabinet consists of Labour Party and Fine Gael Ministers. Regardless of what the Labour Party wants us to believe, it is as much responsible as Fine Gael for any decision the Government takes. I am disappointed that the Labour Party has chosen to engage in a personal attack on the Taoiseach - the chairman of the Cabinet - in order to prevent its candidate from coming fourth in the by-election in Meath East.

Will the Leader invite the Minister for Justice and Equality to come before the House in order that we might discuss, openly and frankly, the difficulties which continue to affect An Garda Síochána? As Senator MacSharry stated, the Garda Commissioner, who is obviously just a mouthpiece for the Minister, has announced that the four members of the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors who walked out of their conference during the Minister's speech are to be disciplined-----

Senator John Gilroy

This is shocking.

Senator Diarmuid Wilson

-----for democratically representing, in the only way possible, the members of their organisation. The individuals in question were mandated by the Carlow-Kilkenny district of An Garda Síochána to do what they did. It is sad if they are to be disciplined for taking democratic action in the only way open to them.

Senator Aideen Hayden

I reassure Senator Wilson, who is very concerned about the future of the Government, that there are absolutely no notes of discordancy between the partners involved in this particular coalition, irrespective of what any of the national newspapers - which are not noted for their accurate reporting - may say.

Senator Diarmuid Wilson

I have seen the leaflet. It is outrageous.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Senator Hayden to continue, without interruption.

Senator Paul Coghlan

Not like some other-----

Senator Aideen Hayden

As the saying goes, "We are damned if we do and damned if we don't".

Like others, I pay tribute to Jimmy Walsh. I have only come to know Jimmy since I was elected to the House and I must say he is not just a friendly face but also a font of information. I recall on one occasion making a statement on the Order of Business about a particular historical date. Jimmy met me in the corridor outside the Chamber and told me that I had got the sentiment right but the date wrong. Not only does he possess a knowledge of this House and its workings, he also has an intimate knowledge of international history. He is indeed a wonderful man. As I listened to the tributes paid to Jimmy yesterday and to his own reminiscences about his time as a correspondent here, I was struck by the thought that there is a book in this. It is not necessarily a seat in the Chamber he needs but an office somewhere in Leinster House in order that he might write that book. My one concern is that once Jimmy Walsh has left us, this House will not even get the coverage it has been receiving. It behoves all the national newspapers in this country to come to terms with the inadequacy of their coverage of the Seanad.

I agree, yet again, with Senator MacSharry that a debate will be required on the personal insolvency provisions when they are introduced. The entire process relating to personal insolvency has been shrouded in mystery. I meet individuals on a daily basis who do not know either what is happening or what will or will not be covered. People are deeply distressed and they need certainty. I am not comforted by the attitude of the banks towards the mortgage arrears resolution strategy, MARS, process, particularly as there is no transparency and no real certainty with regard to who can avail of the relevant measures and what are those measures. The banks have stated that this matter will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. The latter implies a lack of transparency and will mean that no one will know where they stand.

The other issue I wish to raise also relates to the personal insolvency legislation. I refer to the purported comments of the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar. I do not agree with other Senators that this is about child care. It is, rather, about the position of women in society. I note it was not stated that men should give up their jobs and stay at home if the cost of child care exceeded their incomes. I am aware, like many other women, that if one leaves the workforce at a particular time, not only are one's career opportunities reduced but also one's pension options and financial benefits are severely impacted upon. I wish, therefore, to call for a wide-ranging debate on the position of women in Irish society and I request that the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport be invited to come before the House for it.

Senator Colm Burke

I, too, join the tributes to Jimmy Walsh in respect of the contribution he has made during the past 40 years. In any democratic system, it is important to have a very good and fair media. Jimmy has made a major contribution to the democratic process in the way in which he has reported on matters in this House and in the Oireachtas generally for many years. I wish him every happiness in his retirement.

I wish to comment on a matter raised by Senator Norris. I do not want the impression to go out that Senators are completely disconnected from the general public. I am sure the Leas-Chathaoirleach will agree that if Senator Norris visited his constituency on any given weekend, he would discover that the Leas-Chathaoirleach is very much in touch with the people who live there.

Senator David Norris

The Leas-Chathaoirleach does not represent a geographical constituency.

Senator Colm Burke

I am sure the position is likewise in Senator Cullinane's constituency in Waterford. If Senator Norris wants to spend the weekend with me in the constituency of Cork North-Central, he is very welcome to do so. I do not want anyone to obtain the impression that Senators are disconnected from the public in any way. Some 80% of the people who visit my constituency office wish to raise issues relating to social welfare. In the context of social welfare, the Government is not disconnected from the people. In the two years since it entered office, it has issued an additional 251,000 medical cards. A total of 165,000 of these were issued in the past 12 months alone. The Government is not disconnected from what is happening.

Senator David Norris

That may be what the Senator believes but the people disagree with him.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Senator Colm Burke to conclude, without interruption.

Senator Colm Burke

It is a fact that 165,000 additional medical cards were issued in the past year.

This is clear evidence that the Government is not disconnected from what is happening among the general public.

The insurance industry is complaining that the 5% increase in claims might incur higher insurance prices. This is an outrageous statement, given the fact that the overall level of costs, particularly in the legal profession, has decreased by 50% to 60% in the past five years. The suggestion that an increase in claims is justification for increased prices should be contested. We should debate the matter. The industry has opted out of providing house insurance where it does not want to, for example, for properties that have not been flooded but may be subject to flooding. The industry is cherrypicking. There is no justification for its suggestion.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

I mentioned Jimmy Walsh last week, but I will extend an invitation to him this week. If he has time on his hands and is interested in improving his Irish, he will be welcome in Connemara any time.

I support Senator van Turnhout's call on the direct provision system. I have visited some of the centres. This serious and complex issue has been raised a number of times on the Adjournment. The letter in today's edition of The Irish Times puts it succinctly. The situation has been compared with that of the Magdalen laundries. We will have an investigation on our hands if we do not do something about this potential scandal quickly.

One of the moments that sparked the debate on the Magdalen laundries was a play by Ms Patricia Burke-Brogan, which leads me to my second point. Today is World Theatre Day. The power of theatre and the arts should not be underestimated. I echo Senator Mac Conghail's sentiments, in that we need to support the theatre and arts community. It has been a while since the Seanad debated the arts. The Minister's attendance would be useful.

On the back of this morning's presentation by Dr. AbdelFattah Abusrour and the President's "Glaoch" programme, which called on us all to determine how we could use culture, language, music and arts to put our country forward, a debate on this topic would be useful, particularly to discuss how our artists are faring in this difficult financial situation. Ba mhaith liom go mbeadh díospóireacht againn faoi chúrsaí ealaíne chomh luath agus is féidir.

Senator John Gilroy

I would prefer to raise many issues, but I will confine myself to joining colleagues in paying tribute to Jimmy Walsh, whose retirement is upon us. No House could contain him nor the knowledge that he contains. He could be best described as a storehouse of knowledge, but that knowledge is only matched by his willingness to share it. He has given me and many colleagues encouraging and kind words in the past two years. They have led to me striving to be a better Senator. Jimmy is a great writer. His articles have been authoritative, pithy and insightful. More importantly, he is a great and decent fellow. I salute him in the strongest possible terms and wish him the best in his retirement. I genuinely mean that.

Senator Mark Daly

Jimmy would often stop one in the corridor and provide a nice word of encouragement. For that, I thank him. He has often given us advice. The advice that I give him is that the secret to a happy retirement is learning how to spend time without spending money. If he can crack that particular nut, he should let us know.

Will the Leader organise a debate on the undocumented Irish in the US? In April, Congress will table legislative proposals to solve the issue for the nearly 12 million undocumented persons in the US, including 50,000 Irish. Last week, the Taoiseach was on Capitol Hill and had an audience with Republican and Democratic Congressmen. According to the press release published beforehand by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, he stated that he would raise the issue. The time to do so is when one is in a room with the people who matter. From the White House transcripts, however, the Taoiseach did not raise the issue in front of the Republican and Democratic leaders.

Will the Leader ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to attend the Seanad to explain why the Government did not avail of the opportunity presented by St. Patrick's Day and press home our concerns about the situation of the undocumented Irish? We continually preach to the choir, those who are already on board the train, but we do not engage with Republicans who have concerns about the issue of undocumented persons in their constituencies. Will the Leader find out why the issue was not raised at the appropriate time on Capitol Hill?

Senator Michael Mullins

I join in the good wishes for Jimmy Walsh. With all of this morning's tributes, he is probably tempted to enter politics. He would win the popular vote among Senators. Jimmy is a thorough gentleman and a one-off. He has given outstanding service to democracy and journalism through his coverage of the activities of the Oireachtas in his long and illustrious career. I wish him a long, happy and healthy retirement. As I did after yesterday afternoon's fine presentation and enjoyable function, I encourage him to write his book. I hope he does.

I join in the call for a debate on direct provision accommodation. An expensive system, it does not appear to serve well the people for whom it was designed. We need to investigate its merits or otherwise. I would hate it if an inquiry into why it failed people was ever necessary. I hope the Leader will find time in the next session to facilitate that debate.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Before I call the Leader, I wish to pay a brief tribute to Jimmy Walsh. I have known him for a long time, as I have been in the Houses for approximately 18 years. I have become a friend of his. We have often exchanged ideas and so on. I am unsure as to whether he would see fit to accept a nomination to the House. If he did, he might find himself the lily among the briars.

Jimmy is the type of journalist that never played the man. From my knowledge of him and from reading his articles, he always played the ball and was fair. Many young and not-so-young journalists would do well to study and emulate what he has achieved. His contribution to journalism and his adherence to high standards, fairness and decency stick out strongly. Low standards in journalism are as pathetic and as damaging and demeaning to society as they are in politics, for which we are often criticised.

I consider Jimmy to be a gentleman, a scholar and a good judge of whiskey. I wish him many more laps of Marley Park and a happy retirement. I hope that when he retires from journalism, he will occupy himself by writing a book and returning to Leinster House sometime when the straitjacket of his work is not upon him so that some of the Senators who have known him for a long time can spend a social occasion with him, perhaps a meal.

Senator David Norris

Good idea. Well said.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

That is merely a suggestion. With those few words, I wish Jimmy the very best in his retirement. I am quite certain that we will meet again. Our paths will cross. I sometimes walk in Marley Park but I do not think I could keep up with him.

I now ask the Leader to conclude this very lengthy Order of Business but a deserving one on the occasion of the retirement of our journalist friend, Mr. Jimmy Walsh.

Senator Maurice Cummins

Senator Marc MacSharry raised the issue of the insolvency guidelines. The guidelines have not yet been published and I am not one who comments on speculation. I can assure the Senator that no woman will be forced out of the workforce and that the guidelines will retain flexibility to ensure common sense applies. That is what will happen in all such guidelines.

Senator Ivana Bacik called for a debate on the report of the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality on penal reform. We will certainly try to get the Minister here to discuss that matter.

Senators Jillian van Turnhout, Trevor Ó Clochartaigh and Michael Mullins raised the issue of direct provision and called for an independent complaints commission in that regard. As has been mentioned, the matter of direct provision has been raised by a number of Senators on the Adjournment, but I will endeavour to have a debate on it.

Senator David Norris proposed the holding of a sitting of the Seanad in Athlone or elsewhere. I will certainly consider that matter and bring it to the attention of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges for consideration.

Senator Denis Landy sought clarity on the loss of €17 million by credit unions which had investments with the IBRC. I am surprised that these credit unions did not withdraw the money.

Senator Denis Landy

On a point of order, they were not allowed.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

The Leader to respond.

Senator Maurice Cummins

I am surprised that they did not withdraw the money. I will seek clarification for Senator Denis Landy, but I am sure that if he sent a note to the Minister, he would receive clarification on the matter.

Senator David Cullinane raised the issue of the property tax. I gave a comprehensive reply on that matter yesterday.

Senators Cáit Keane, Catherine Noone and Jillian van Turnhout sought a debate on child care. I will bring the matter to the attention of the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, and perhaps we might have her attend after Easter.

Senator Jim Walsh sought a debate on political reform. The Government held a referendum on greater powers for Oireachtas committees, but it was rejected by the people. Certainly, in relation to committees, as Senator Jim Walsh will be aware, that part of political reform which had been envisaged cannot go ahead.

Senators Fiach Mac Conghail and Trevor Ó Clochartaigh have outlined the fact that today is World Theatre Day. I certainly join colleagues in saluting all those involved in the theatre and performances the length and breadth of the country.

On the matter Senator Fiach Mac Conghail mentioned, the memo that went to the Cabinet was merely to mention that the Private Members' motion was being put forward this evening and that the Minister himself would be taking the matter. On the other matter referred to, as far as I am aware, no matter went to the Government on the specific memo or proposal to the Government which the Senator mentioned.

Senator Feargal Quinn raised the matter of organ donations and the Human Body Organs and Human Tissue Bill 2008. I will clarify the position on that Bill which he introduced and whether it can be introduced again, or whether it is the intention of the Government to bring an organ donations Bill before the House. I will get back to the Senator on that issue.

Senator Michael Comiskey commented on the co-operation between the North and the South in providing forage for farmers, which is to be welcomed by everybody.

I can assure Senator Diarmuid Wilson, despite the mischief to which he was probably trying to get up, that the Government parties are working well together. As to rumours of divisions, that is what they really are.

Senator Aideen Hayden spoke about the role of women in Irish society and called for a debate on the matter. I will certainly try to arrange it. I can assure everybody that women play an important role in this House on a daily basis.

Senator Colm Burke advised the House that 165,000 additional medical cards were issued last year. He also raised the issue of the cost of insurance. I will certainly raise that matter with the Minister and see if we can have a debate on it.

Senator Mark Daly called for a debate on the undocumented Irish in the United States. That matter was raised by the Taoiseach with the US President. The Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, and his officials have raised it on numerous occasions with representatives, both Democrats and Republicans. I can assure Senator Mark Daly that the matter is on the agenda on a constant basis, both in the Tánaiste's office and the Taoiseach's office.

Order of Business agreed to.

Sitting suspended at 11.05 a.m. and resumed at 2 p.m.