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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 27 Mar 2013

Vol. 222 No. 7

Philanthropy and Fund-raising: Motion

I move:

That Seanad Éireann would welcome

- a national debate on the current context and challenges facing the not-for-profit sector with regards to philanthropy, fundraising, sponsorship and private giving in Ireland.

notes:

- the publication in May 2012 under the auspices of the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government of the report of the Forum on Philanthropy and Fundraising;

- that according to the Irish Non-Profits Knowledge Exchange the not-for-profit sector in Ireland employs over 100,000 people across the community, voluntary, sporting and cultural sector and has a pay cost of €3.5 billion;

- that 32% of the non-for-profit sector in the Irish Non-Profit Database are unincorporated, which means that pending the commencement of the Charities Act, we have no regulatory source of financial information about them;

- with concern that there is no centralised register available on the level of state funding given to the not-for-profit sector;

- that the programme for Government states "We will work with stakeholders in the Arts Community to develop proposals aimed at building support of the Arts in Ireland exploring philanthropic, sponsorship or endowment fund opportunities" - Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht;

- that there is a dearth of accurate and robust data on which to base public policy in this area;

- the declining public funding environment and the exiting of two major foundations from Ireland (One Foundation and Atlantic Philanthropies) puts the sustainability of the sector in doubt;

- that approximately 20% of the national lottery fund goes to arts and heritage funding, with 19.4% going to sports and 36% going to community organisations.

welcomes:

- the initiatives within the voluntary, community and the arts sector across public and private organisations to build on capacity and leveraging for fundraising; in particular:

- the philanthropy leverage initiative by the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht;

- pilot RAISE scheme by the Arts Council;

- new stream by business to arts;

- the work of both Philanthropy Ireland and Fundraising Ireland in supporting training and capacity building across the community and voluntary sectors;

- welcomes the proposal in the Finance Bill 2013 to simplify the tax incentive for charity donations;

calls on the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government:

- to update the Seanad on the progress of the recommendations of the report of the Forum on Philanthropy and Fundraising; and

- to outline the impact of the departure of key philanthropic organisations such as Atlantic Philanthropies and One Foundation.

I welcome the Minister and thank him for making a commitment to be present for the debate. I also welcome our guests in the Visitors Gallery. They are development managers in some of our arts and cultural organisations and foundations. I welcome, in particular, those representing The Wheel, a representative organisation of more than 900 members of the voluntary sector; Business to Arts; Dublin Theatre Festival; and the Abbey Theatre. I thank them for their background briefings for this debate.

As director of the Abbey Theatre, I fund-raise on behalf of the national theatre and although I do not benefit personally from this, I have a professional interest in the matter. I also donate a portion of my Seanad salary to the theatre and the reminder to other not-for-profit arts organisations. I can, therefore, contribute as both a fund-raiser and a donor.

The reason our group of Independent Senators tabled the motion is we feel strongly that the House and Oireachtas Members generally need to brief themselves fully on the complex issues surrounding philanthropy, fundraising, sponsorship and private giving in Ireland. We often use one of these terms when we mean another. Sometimes we look on philanthropy and fundraising negatively and others are suspicious of them because it might mean the Government of the day might encourage fundraising and philanthropic strategies to replace central government support. I would like to have a philosophical discussion on what might be the best way to gain a greater understanding of the context and challenges of fundraising in Ireland and to hear from the Minister about what has been achieved since the launch of the report of the Forum on Philanthropy and Fundraising.

To give credit where it is due, I acknowledge that the Government, more than any of its predecessors, has done a great deal to create a policy framework and to take actions in this area. We welcome the measures in this year's Finance Bill to simplify the tax incentive for charity donations. We operate in a declining public funding environment where the cumulative effect of year on year decreases in funding is taking hold. In this environment, the Government has placed an emphasis on increasing private funding for the not-for-profit sector but has been clear in its message that the emphasis is not on displacement.

My concern relates to trust. There is a genuine fear among organisations that we have consulted that if we invest and develop a strategy for diversifying our incomes in the not-for-profit sector, the Government will be let off the hook and might even punish fundraising success. Maximising private funding cannot be viewed as a pretext for reducing public funds. At the last meeting of the Seanad Public Consultation Committee, we heard excellent presentations by some of the best of Ireland's social entrepreneurs. We also heard from Ms Deirdre Mortell, co-founder of the One Foundation, who bluntly and starkly spoke about the tough economic fundraising environment currently. One Foundation is winding down and exiting this year while Atlantic Philanthropies will exit in 2016. They are two extraordinary, innovative foundations, which have encouraged and supported social change in Ireland. Part of what they both do now is support their grantees on how to build their capacity for future fundraising. Capacity building is the buzz phrase for everybody working in the not-for-profit sector and if it is not, it should be.

How can organisations in the arts and cultural, social justice, education, poverty and other sectors of the not-for-profit community, children's charities and advocacy groups manage to continue to support their goals by raising money through sources other than the State? The State provides a significant portion of funding but it has to understand and provide an enabling environment for all of us to raise money through strategic giving. A systematic approach to fundraising and philanthropy is required because philanthropy on its own is not the answer as this country is too small to concentrate only on that. Fundraising infrastructure is crucial. Recruiting, investing in and training staff are paramount. The board of directors of these organisations often might not understand that two factors are necessary to fund-raise - patience and money. The old adage that to raise money one needs to spend money is true. A return on investment can take two to four years but as is the case with my own organisation, the Abbey Theatre, it is worth it and results have shown that investment in staff and core costs yields additional diverse revenues.

All this has to be supported by proper and consistent data and evidence. Data are necessary to implement strategic policy. As the motion states, there is a dearth of accurate and robust data on which to base public policy. One of the recommendations of the report of the forum on philanthropy is to increase philanthropic giving by 10% year on year in Ireland from its current level of approximately €500 million per annum to €800 million by 2016, a 60% increase.

In his introduction to the report, the Minister mentioned that they are "clearly ambitious targets". With due respect, this is near impossible even with some of the support mechanisms. I am not critical of the Minister but what I am critical of is that the figure of €500 million is an approximation. We do not have accurate data. If we do nothing else today but agree on the need for accurate data and evidence and to set about a process of collecting this evidence, it would be a good driver towards better policy. In my area of the arts, accurate data on private support is unclear. Business to Arts place this as between €25 million to €30 million, following research with Deloitte in 2009. Most recently, the Arts Council appears to match this figure although the sources are unclear. According to the 2009 report of the Irish Nonprofit Knowledge Exchange, the not-for-profit sector in Ireland employs more than 100,000 people across the community, voluntary, sports and culture sectors. This includes about 11,700 organisations, of which around 8,000 are registered charities, managing a turnover of about €5.75 billion. It means that the not-for-profit sector accounts for 5% of national income. However, as we wait for an update in the progress of the Charities Act we should be conscious that we do not have relevant, up-to-date accurate data for giving in Ireland. I ask the Minister, inthe light of the recommendations in the report, to comment on this.

Implementing the Charities Act would provide, as the report states, "a stream of reliable evidence on which to build better policy and evaluate outcomes". If it is not possible to implement the Act - I know this is not part of the Minister's functions - how else can we collect evidence? The important philanthropy leverage initiative by Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, and the Arts Council's own pilot scheme, RAISE, could be seen as putting the cart before the horse. In that important capacity, building actions are being delivered in the context of no accurate up-to-date information.

Proposal No. 6 of the report states that the CSO should be mandated by Government to collect data on charitable giving in Ireland as a part of its quarterly household survey. This, I believe, would be an important and cost-neutral policy action to be taken by the Government. Another recommendation I wish to highlight and one about which I have concerns is the proposal to have a national giving campaign, that is, the way the forum proposes to increase giving by 60% to €800 million by 2016. What are the plans for this? I am concerned that this might be a white elephant and that although it is, in theory, well intentioned it could cause misunderstanding and competing messages across the not-for-profit sector. To what extent has the national giving campaign consulted with large charities, major flag days and annual fundraising campaigns to understand their strengths and weaknesses and how they establish a co-ordinated role between the charities? In his 2003 Budget Statement, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, asked for further recommendations from the working group on tax relief for charitable donations or the treatment of large scale donations to existing foundation or establishments of new foundations. Have their recommendations been tested with the proposed national giving campaign? For the national giving campaign to work it needs to be extremely targeted and even then there might be a case of spending that money on other strategic fundraising initiatives.

There is one area where the not-for-profit sector should develop and innovate, and this is in legacy giving. Some of us might find this too delicate or sensitive a subject but it is, to quote Damien O'Broin of Ask Direct, "a massively under-developed channel for fundraising in Ireland". Leaving a portion of one's will to charity, a cause or an arts organisation should be encouraged as part of any national giving campaign. In 2009, according to Mr. O'Broin, Irish legacy income was approximately €26 million. If we were as good as the United Kingdom at legacy fundraising on a pro rata basis regarding population, we would raise €147 million from legacies, which is almost 50% of the target increase in one go. We are, of course, looking at a longer lead-in period when it comes to legacies of up to five years, but it is worth discussing and encouraging.

I request an assurance from the Minister about the degree to which his Department and the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht are working together, sharing information and pooling resources on this important work. The track record of the Government is second to none with regard to the commitment to the policy of philanthropy and fundraising. The programme for Government provides for a dialogue between both Departments, where both Ministers can be honest brokers, in order that within specific communities of the not-for-profit sector greater collaboration can be encouraged. Likewise, the expenditure of public finance within the not-for-profit sector must be transparent and impactful which will benefit the donor, in terms of making a strong case for giving, and the not-for-profit organisation in terms of achieving that goal.

I commend the motion to the House.

I welcome the Minister. I endorse everything my colleague, Senator Fiach Mac Conghail has said, and thank him for all his work in the lead-up to the debate. I am honoured to second the motion on behalf of the Independent Group because, given the experience of each one of us, we all have tales and testimonies we could share with the House. The Senator started by showing us the figures from the Irish Nonprofit Knowledge Exchange of the number of people employed and the number of volunteers involved in community and voluntary organisations. That made me think of jobs. We regularly hear from the Government that one cannot create jobs but one can create the environment to sustain jobs. In the same say, the Government cannot create philanthropy but it can create an environment to encourage and sustain a culture of planned giving to charities and NGOs. What we are about is trying to ensure that the Government creates that environment and sustains that culture of planned giving. The report on the Forum on Philanthropy and Fundraising is a good start but I look forward to hearing the Minister's update on how the recommendations are being implemented and, therefore, I do not want to pre-empt that. I have a fear that after the report is published each Minister will go back to his or her own Department and look within their own Departments. The reality is that as cuts are increasing, organisations are going from Department to Department. I could list several organisations that are funded by a multiple of Departments and the Departments do not know that they are funding organisations to do the same thing.

I wholly endorse what Senator Fiach Mac Conghail has said about the need for proper and consistent data and evidence. Before I was appointed as a Senator, I did not know too much about the arts. I was a spectator in the arts and that was about it. However, I was very involved in the community and voluntary organisation sector. What we have found striking in the past two years is that the challenges and the landscape are akin. The challenge for civil society organisations and for charities is to realise that while our missions may differ, the environment in which we are working is similar. I will not begin to mention the challenge if the Government introduces, which I hope it does, a ban on alcohol advertising for sports organisations. There is an increasingly challenging environment without the recession and we also see the exit of the philanthropists, mainly Atlantic Philanthropies and One Foundation.

The reality is that many of the non-profit organisations that I know from the children and youth sector are involved in delivering essential public services across the length and breath of the country. The advocacy initiative is developing a report. One of the issues it raised a few weeks ago was the chilling effect. It made me think because a few weeks ago I shared, thanks to The Irish Times and the Irish Daily Mirror, my critique on the development of the planned new child and family support agency. Following publication, I was surprised by the level of correspondence and telephone calls I received from organisations. They wholeheartedly agreed with me but they did not wish to speak about it publicly. The new agency has a budget of €545 million, more than €100 million of which will go to organisations and NGOs to provide services, but as it cannot yet define or outline what these services will be organisations are on tender hooks. These organisations have direct first hand experience of working with most vulnerable children and could be invaluable advocates. On the other hand, I have a very positive example from my own experience, before becoming a Senator, having been chief executive of the Children's Rights Alliance. At the end of 2006 we managed to negotiate with the Minister's Department for multi-annual funding and from that we were able to leverage funding from Atlantic Philanthropies and One Foundation. This comes back to my point about the Government creating a culture of planned and sustained giving. All too often organisations only find out in quarter one or quarter two of the year of expenditure what funding they will receive from the State.

No business could operate in this way. How does the Minister leverage funding from corporate organisations, philanthropists and others, when the Government is not creating that culture?

The Government needs to co-ordinate between the various Departments. We do not have information on how much funding the State gives in total to NGOs and charities. The Charities Act 2009 needs to be fully implemented. No doubt my colleague, Senator Mary Ann O'Brien will say more on this.

The Government should not limit how it can support the work of charities and NGOs in other works, obviously, through developing philanthropy and creating that culture but also through looking at the use of public buildings such as school buildings, which, in my experience of youth work organisations, are locked up every evening. In many cases, we cannot access school buildings and must hire commercial buildings. If one looks at the Valuation (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012, the different rates being charged throughout the country to arts, sports and youth organisations do not create an even field. On a positive note, as I like to be positive also, on the property tax I made the case in December last that charities that hold properties for hosting and accommodating activities for children and young people should be exempted from the property tax and I am happy that the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, accepted my amendment and introduced the exemption to the property tax Bill.

The Government needs to create an environment to encourage and sustain a culture of planned giving to charities, and it does so by leading by example. It needs a co-ordinated approach to funding. Currently, there is a dearth of accurate and robust data on which to base public policy. This has been proven repeatedly and Senator Mac Conghail has really made the case for this. The State needs to be able to publicly and transparently account for how much it gives to each NGO and organisation. It needs to do that in a multiannual way, ensuring that outcomes are delivered on. It needs to invest in organisations to allow them to leverage and plan for their outcomes.

This debate is a first step in looking at how we ensure that the challenges ahead can be faced together. I am concerned that everything happens within a Department, for example, one would assume that it is the Department of Children and Youth Affairs, under the youth service grant scheme, that gives most funding to youth work in Ireland but it is still the Garda youth diversion project. Do we wait for the problems to happen or do we invest early? By investing early the Government instils confidence, saying, "This is what it is about". It means that when the Minister goes to organisations, he can ensure that the Government must have a way of having structured vehicles for major giving. It must have a social innovation fund in order that we can have this transformative impact and change that we all want.

I read that we can decide governments through the ballot box but philanthropy is a way that the public can decide what it wishes to support and where it wishes to see social impact. Today is the start of a debate. We all realise that many organisations feel they are on a cliff. We need to ensure that the Government is working in a co-ordinated and planned way and by doing that, helping organisations to work together. All too often we are encouraged to compete rather than collaborate. This is where we must work together. The Minister needs to use the experiences that are here, in particular, in the Seanad. There are many Senators who have active involvement in organisations right across the sectors that must work together rather than being merely one sector, such as the community sector or arts sector.

I am pleased to be here today to provide my Seanad colleagues with an update on the progress of the recommendations of the report of the Forum on Philanthropy and Fund-raising, and to outline the impact of the departure of key philanthropic organisations. I thank Senator Mac Conghail and his colleagues for this opportunity and assure him that the views that he expressed here today are being taken on board by the forum on philanthropy under the chairmanship of Mr. Frank Flannery.

Charity organisations play an important role in our society and there is no community in Ireland that has not been enriched in some way by these organisations. I reconvened the forum on philanthropy in May 2011, after some time of dormancy, to advance understanding, promote dialogue and inform the policy agenda on philanthropy and fund-raising, and the forum reported in May 2012. In implementing the recommendations of the forum, we have the opportunity to substantially increase the level of private sector investment in the sector by creating a favourable environment for individual and corporate philanthropy in Ireland, and developing fund-raising capacity. Increasing investment in the sector in the future, in partnership between the State and the philanthropic sector, will generate increased employment, build social capital and support the Government's agenda on national reform and national renewal.

By growing the sector, a vital contribution will be made to Ireland's economic recovery. It will also play a significant social role in all the communities by providing support and assistance for citizens some of whom are living in disadvantaged circumstances. This will also help improve education outcomes for disadvantaged children, provide additional health care facilities and care of the aged which will supplement, rather than replace, the existing State supports in all these areas.

The forum has set out an ambitious target to increase philanthropic giving by 10% year-on-year in Ireland, from its current level of approximately €500 million per annum to €800 million by 2016. The drivers for this increase in giving fall under four overarching themes: a national giving campaign, fiscal and infrastructure recommendations, building fundraising capacity and a social innovation fund.

A national giving campaign is planned for two years with the objective of increasing private giving, in particular, planned giving, by 10% year-on-year to 2016. It will do this through raising awareness and understanding of the value of philanthropy and planned giving among all sections of Irish society, high net-worth individuals, business and the general public, by demonstrating the contribution of the charity sector to improving Irish society and the development of community in Ireland. Research already carried out clearly shows a willingness on behalf of the Irish people to continue to give to charity.

Atlantic Philanthropies and the One Foundation have had a profound effect in Ireland - on education, research, services for the elderly and the lives of young children, to name just a few. That is why the Government has decided to invest in a national giving campaign to be launched in the middle of this year. It will be led by philanthropic organisations but strongly endorsed by the Government. It is envisaged that charities will be encouraged to launch their own campaigns under the umbrella of the giving campaign. I am providing funding of approximately €1.9 million over a three-year period on the basis that it is matched by Philanthropy Ireland with funding from philanthropic sources. This will be used to provide support for the infrastructure sub-group and the initial set-up costs of the social innovation fund.

In 2012, my colleague, the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Deenihan, announced the Philanthropic Leverage Initiative which was designed to encourage philanthropic sponsorship and endowment of the arts from private sources. The initiative, established with funding of €230,000 for 2012, has provided an incentive to arts organisations to be proactive in seeking new funding relationships with sponsors to deliver private sector financial support, thereby increasing the overall funding available to the arts. The Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht recently announced details of a 2013 philanthropy scheme. In a new departure for the initiative, this year the majority of the philanthropy initiative funding will be directed towards arts and culture organisations that are looking for support for projects that include an education component.

The Philanthropic Leverage Initiative is run in parallel with a second initiative - the Arts Council's RAISE: Building Fundraising Capacity pilot initiative. This initiative provides one-to-one professional support for eight selected organisations for two years through planning and implementing a tailored fundraising programme. In developing this complementary programme, the Arts Council has identified that it is vital for arts groups to develop, agree and implement an effective fundraising strategy and to properly resource that fundraising function.

I advise Senator Mac Conghail that the Department is represented on the forum and an active participant. Most Departments are represented on the forum, which gives some element of joined-up thinking.

On fiscal and infrastructure recommendations, the forum also recommends the introduction of measures to promote the creation of structured vehicles for major gifts. This follows the example of other developed economies with mature infrastructures for giving through grant-making charitable trusts, foundations and donor-advised funds.

Public consultation on decoupling and simplification of tax relief for charities and donors has been completed. A working group consisting of officials from the Department of Finance and the charities sector prepared proposals for the December budget, which were accepted by the Minister for Finance and are now incorporated in the Finance Act. These proposals will simplify the tax relief scheme on donations and will result in a number of changes.
One of the main changes that will result is that donations from PAYE and self-assessed taxpayers will be treated the same, with the benefit of the relief in all cases going to the charity or approved body. Tax relief will be applied at a new composite rate of 31%. The tax relief scheme will no longer be subject to the restriction on tax relief to higher earners. Instead, there will be an upper limit of €1 million per annum on donations to charity from an individual taxpayer that will qualify for the relief. Administration of the scheme will be significantly simplified with donors having the option to sign declarations for one year or up to a maximum of five years. Renewal of the forms will not require donors to give their PPS number again, the charity may use their own identifier to renew declarations and electronic processing of tax reclaims will be introduced.
The Charities Act, enacted in 2009, which aims to enhance public trust and confidence in the charities and increase transparency in the sector, is not within my remit but under the remit of the Minister for Justice and Equality. The legislation was enacted in 2009 in order to strengthen the regulation of charities and increase their transparency and accountability to those that fund them. Recently the Department of Justice and Equality conducted a public and stakeholder consultation on plans for bringing the Charities Act into force on a phased basis.
The consultation invited views from charities, other interested stakeholders and members of the public on issues connected with the implementation of the Charities Act. These include the setting up of a charities regulatory authority, the statutory registration of charities and granting of charitable status, and the type of annual reporting that a charities regulatory authority will require from registered charities each year. The closing date for submissions was 20 March 2013. Submissions to the consultation will be published in due course by the Department of Justice and Equality. The views expressed will help to inform the phased implementation of the Charities Act.
The development of a comprehensive statutory register of charities will be a key part of the process. When the register is complete it will constitute an important source of regulatory data for those interested in the charities sector here. As such, it will contribute to efforts to enhance the transparency and accountability of all charities.
A structured national fundraising education and training programme is under way that will facilitate the growth of private donor income to the not-for-profit sector. I am providing specific funding of €400,000 over a three-year period on the basis that it is matched by Fundraising Ireland with funding from philanthropic sources in order to build fundraising capacity within the sector. A certificate in fundraising has been designed. The first class of 26 participants have completed their classes in Dublin City University and are completing an individual project as part of their course work.
There is a social innovation fund of a significant size which starts at around €10 million. It will support the establishment and growth of social innovations with the potential for transformative impact on critical social issues facing Ireland, including unemployment and the environment and is being developed. It is envisaged that the structures for the establishment of the social innovation fund will be in place before the end of the year. The fund will provide growth capital to Ireland's best social innovators and innovations, investing in solutions to social problems and creating jobs.
The forum's vision for the period ahead is that the role and legitimacy of the contribution of philanthropy and strategic charitable fundraising to Irish society will be reinforced, properly understood, which is not always the case, and valued. An appropriate infrastructure to facilitate philanthropy and fundraising will have been nurtured, including an efficient tax and legal frameworks that encourage giving, proactive and engaged intermediaries and wealth advisers that promote philanthropy and giving. It is important that the sector is seen to operate with integrity and trust. Philanthropy and fundraising in Ireland will be widely perceived as operating to the highest standards of transparency, probity and effectiveness. The fields of philanthropy and fundraising will be characterised by readily accessible and good quality information. That will enable progress and developments within the field to be tracked and understood over time, including appropriate international comparisons. The gradual implementation of the Charities Act can contribute to this. The implementation of the forum proposals will result in creating employment and addressing social issues in all of our communities and making a tangible difference to the lives of our people today and a better future for us all.
I do not want to cause division in the House on the issue. I thank Senator Mac Conghail for engaging with my Department to ensure that we had an opportunity to discuss in an encouraging, factual and co-operative manner the development of new schemes and opportunities and the ways we can increase the amount of money available to help people in the ways that I have identified. Philanthropy should not be seen as elitist which has often been the case in the past. Everybody's donation, no matter how large, will receive equal treatment and respect.

I commend my colleague, Senator Mac Conghail, for his work in the arts and for tabling the motion. I also commend all of the Senators who are involved in the not-for-profit sector. The House is blessed to have such a range of people. I welcome the people who are seated in the Visitors Gallery who are involved in the arts.

As we all know, Ireland has a great international reputation for giving, and 89% of adults in Ireland give to charity every year. By comparison, 58% of adults in England and 40% in Germany give money to charity on an annual basis. Only 0.1% of the top 500 businesses in Ireland donate part of their profits to charity but in England it is 1.2%. In the USA a staggering 2% of national product goes towards the charity sector which is nearly $300 billion but in Ireland it is 0.7%. That leads me to conclude that it is not that Irish people do not want to give, but that the mechanisms and systems fail in their giving.

The Forum on Philanthropy made four key recommendations as follows: establish a national giving campaign; improve the fiscal environment and the infrastructure for giving which I shall return to later; develop a fund-raising capacity among not-for-profits; and create a national social innovation fund. The key recommendation is the second one. The budget must take account of how people and companies can give properly. If these structures were put in place and philanthropy was taken seriously in the last budget then we would not have seen a decline in the number of organisations that are involved in philanthropy, and Atlantic Philanthropies will leave Ireland this year. The Government must fill the gap and create a system where a one-off individual like Chuck Feeney, who is unique in the world, has such a love for Ireland that he became involved. The structures for his giving are not optimal and the Government has not tackled it in a budgetary way, particularly in the Finance Act, to make it easier for people to give, thus allowing people to be more generous, especially when it comes to legacies, which is the norm in the United States and hence the reason that a figure of $300 billion was given to charity.

However, nine out of every ten adults in Ireland donate money every year to charity. They do so burdened by tax, a system that is not as generous as it should or could be. This leads me to my next question. The key recommendation by the Forum on Philanthropy was on the budget. There is no need for a giving campaign because Irish people already give generously compared with everyone else in Europe. We tend to give in response to a crisis and emergencies. That is because, in our heart of hearts, we know what that is like as a nation. Donating should be more sustained and structured. People should be allowed to donate from their estates and to give annually from their wages. Donating should not be the burden that is due to the Government's tax regime and limits on philanthropy.

The American Ireland Fund, founded by the former United States ambassador to Ireland, Mr. Dan Rooney, will be the only large philanthropic organisation left in the State. The Government has not taken serious action to tackle the situation.

That is not true.

A report is not action.

I have just outlined some actions.

I do not see the bottom line.

The Senator was not in the Chamber during my speech.

I was sitting in the Chamber for all of the Minister's contribution.

The Senator obviously did not hear me make that point.

Senator Daly to continue, without interruption.

The Finance Act is where this is at. In other jurisdictions such as the United States, people who have the resources during the later years, because this is a time of lower financial outgoings, tend to be the most generous. That is the reason we need more action in the Finance Act to create the fiscal infrastructure to facilitate giving. The Minister's report raises the issue of the fiscal environment and the infrastructure for giving. This is not in place at present. We need to ensure this will happen.

I welcome the Minister to the House. I also take the opportunity to welcome those present in the Visitors Gallery. I thank Senator Mac Conghail and the other Independent Senators for tabling this very important motion. I compliment them on giving us the opportunity to discuss this important subject. I think Senator Daly was not listening when the Minister was speaking, because we are discussing the steps to put fiscal measures in place to ensure we create an environment for financial giving.

We do not have enough discussion on this important subject. It is a shame because Ireland is one of the greatest philanthropic countries in the world and giving is one of the core characteristic of its people. We rate giving highly. We take an interest in others and we support their work and efforts through the donation of our time and money. Many Senators have mentioned the voluntary commitment of people who give their time for the good of others. Heretofore people have raised money and established foundations and given of their time voluntarily. Time is not counted as money at all, but time is money for all those who invested their time in philanthropic foundations.

Today, it is estimated that the total philanthropic income in Ireland is in excess of €500 million annually. I am using the word "estimated" and Senator Mac Conghail pointed out that data is essential. The Charities Act will bring that to the fore. It is vital to ensure we collect all of the data. That is a sizeable amount for a country such as Ireland.

Philanthropic societies and donations have many objectives: to bring about lasting change to the lives of the disadvantaged and vulnerable people; in support of higher education, preschool education and education for less advantaged pupils; in projects involving the elderly, human rights and the subject of our business this evening, the arts, and philanthropic giving.

The Irish Funders Forum established in 1998 as a voluntary body is probably one of the first established philanthropic organisations in the country. The name was changed in 2004 to Philanthropy Ireland and a network of between 25 to 30 organisations came under its umbrella. People got up and did it themselves without the help. However, people need help.

The One Foundation was founded in 2004 by Declan Ryan and Deirdre Mortell is its chief executive, a name mentioned by Senator Mac Conghail. The motto of that organisation is "Giving while living". That must be applauded. In the United States, giving for living is fashionable but as Senator Mac Conghail mentioned, legacy giving is important as well because sometimes people just forget and they may not even think about it. If it were promoted, it would open an avenue that people would be thinking about. The dogs and cats home is important and many people leave money to it.

We must acknowledge there are people who did not need Government intervention to give. Irish people are generous and have given to aid programmes or responded to emergency appeals, giving in times of need relative to our population size.

Times have changed. We must adopt change. I congratulate the Minister on publishing the report on the Forum on Philanthropy and Fund-raising. He has commented on it in his contribution.

The arts sector has pointed out that it receives approximately 0.6% of the amount of the €500 million raised annually. Income from philanthropy for arts organisations makes up only 3% of their total income and they have pointed out that this is less than half of the proportion of philanthropic sponsorship in other countries, such as the United States and the UK, to name but two, which have a much more highly developed approach to philanthropic supports not alone for the arts and culture, but for all aspects of philanthropic giving. It is clearly the case that while philanthropy is not new, it is not officially well developed in Ireland. Philanthropy for arts and culture, in particular, is underdeveloped in Ireland compared to other sectors in other countries.

I am aware the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, stated he would be addressing this issue. He has addressed it. The Minister, Deputy Hogan, has outlined some of the elements that the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, together with the stakeholders involved in the arts, are working on.

Philanthropy requires close cross-departmental work, due to the crossover into nearly every Department that has needs, be it community, education, welfare, health and the disadvantaged. As Senator van Turnhout said, we and even some of the organisations themselves do not know where the crossover is. It is important that such a survey be done. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, has, as he said, established the forum on philanthropy in 2011 and set it the task of increasing the level of philanthropic and charitable giving along with developing fund-raising capacity and best practices across the sector. It is important to ensure there is best practice and rules and regulations right across every sector when people are asked for money.

There are other findings and recommendations contained in the report also. The Minister has outlined some of them, stating the recommendations will be implemented in the next four years. I will confine my remarks to four of the main recommendations, which includes a national giving campaign. Senator Daly is no longer in the Chamber but we need a national giving campaign because people are good with giving but they need to be told how and given the mechanism and to know what to do for the most effective outcome. The national giving campaign should be aimed at the public, high net worth individuals and corporates to increase their giving. We have high net worth corporates in Ireland and we have seen much of the money go out of the country, be it under various tax schemes. We need to have mechanisms to incentivise corporate high net worth individuals to give. There is a need for better fund-raising capacity, education and training among the not-for-profit sector, and for the creation of a national social innovation fund, supported by the Government and the philanthropic sector. The Forum on Philanthropy and Fund-raising is a public private partnership bringing together the major philanthropic fund-raising groups, voluntary groups and relevant Departments and agencies to help shape and refine a strategy to develop philanthropy and fund-raising, and increase investment in good causes in Ireland. While the emphasis on this initiative has come from the not-for-profit sector, it has been a bottom-up approach, not a top-down approach from the Government. The Government has shown that it is more than happy to support-----

The Senator has less than one minute,

The Minister has said it will not displace funding, it will help funding.

I firmly believe philanthropy is as beneficial to the donor as it is to the recipient. I have been associated with a range of arts, culture and heritage organisations and was chairman of the RUA RED South Dublin Arts Centre in Tallaght for many years. A great deal of time goes to raising money as well as producing the work. I know the significant personal reward that comes from a commitment of supporting the giving as well as the giving. I know, however, that philanthropy is a new territory for many organisations. Changing thinking and attitudes is as much a challenge as getting arts and other organisations such as social, voluntary and education organisations, to take the plunge and go out and seek the support they deserve.

Will the Senator conclude?

We know the Minister has his heart in the right place. The implementation of the report will add to philanthropic donations in Ireland. I compliment the people who are working in this area.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire . I welcome the Minister to the House. I compliment the Independent Senators who put forward this motion for consideration. These Senators have a very fine record in this House in bringing forward issues that might otherwise not get the airing which they deserve.

The issue is certainly one of them.

I also appreciate the Minister's comments and think his tone is quite right. There are areas where we must develop partnership and this is one of them. It is easy to become frustrated and angry about issues today, but we cannot afford to go down that road. We must find ways and means of filling a gap that has occurred through no one's fault. The Minister is also right in selecting the words in the motion because there are different meanings to fund-raising, private giving and philanthropy. They may all have different meanings but at the end of the day, we are talking about people who have money and are prepared to share it for whatever cause. In that way, they can feel confident that the money they are giving will be used in the right manner.

We have often seen cases where something might develop that would be negative in that area; therefore, people can be cautious about giving money. We do not have much of that in Ireland and the Charities Act certainly fills the vacuum in that regard. When it is fully implemented, I have no doubt there will be full policing of, and full confidence in, that area.

It has been pointed out how good Ireland is at providing funding, with 89% of people saying they give money to charity on some occasions, as against 58% in the UK and 40% in Germany. That is quite a record in itself. The major part of that 89% is given in the case of emergencies that may occur either at home or abroad. It is to be welcomed and obviously it will continue.

We are talking about stabilising funding, particularly in the arts and culture sector. We should start by realising the economic importance of the arts and culture in the country, and the amount of money our cultural heritage donates to the coffers. It is something between €4 billion and €5 billion. Some 79,000 people are engaged in that sector and we are talking about big figures. It is not a matter of just getting something that will sustain, expand and enhance the sector, it is also to ensure the money accruing to the State from that area will continue and will be underpinned. It is important to take that into consideration.

I fully accept we are living in recessionary times and, as a result, everybody will take some type of hit. We must be careful, however, that the hit is not so great it will in some way undermine what has been achieved. The arts and culture comprise one of the great areas of which we can be proud, and tourism is another. We can feel proud to have something that is exclusively our own and in which the world wants to participate. That is what we will be looking at in a competitive world in future. It was sunshine for a while and then it was something else, but most discerning travellers want an experience they do not have at home. Cultural heritage is one such experience. I can still recall a survey undertaken by the former Bord Fáilte on what people wanted to do when they came to Ireland, and the first three out of six referred to cultural heritage. I am sure that tendency has not changed and, if anything, it has improved in the meantime.

We must come up with a cohesive approach to this matter, involving players in the field, the Government and those from whom we are expecting to get funding. There is a lot of finance in the arts and culture sector provided that we can sell the concept in a way that does not undermine vital creativity and that leaves tangible results. We should all work together to produce something that will attract people's attention. Senator Daly quoted 0.7% for the top 500, but I think it is lower than that. As it is so low, there must be an opportunity of embracing it.

What do people in the corporate sector want when they give money? In the main, I think they want acknowledgement, which we are pretty good at giving to them. There is also a major section of people who donate because they have done well themselves and want to improve the quality of life. They see this as a mechanism for doing so and the same applies in private giving.

We can do it as individual organisations but that is not powerful enough. We are really talking about preparing the field before sowing the seed to have a great harvest. That is the way we must approach this matter because the way we prepare that field is important. Incidentally, we might only get one bite of the cherry because these types of things tend to be seized upon. When a report is published, it will last for so long, but after the sell-by date, it disappears quickly. That is why I think there is a degree of urgency involved.

It would be well worthwhile if, in some way, we could have an extension of the forum and give the main players - be they six, nine or 12 - an opportunity. I am not talking about a quango, expenses or staff. All we are doing here today is setting out a stall, but what one puts into that stall is important. I will cite a small example that may be of interest. Capital funding in the arts and culture is virtually disappearing at the moment. We need only look at the figures. Where we might have had tens of millions we are now down to €2 million or €3 million. The Minister might consider a suggestion, however. There are billions of euro on deposit in Ireland at the present time. In the banks one gains nothing, apart from trouble. My suggestion might be an echo of charitable status. If a private individual wants to give to an organisation that requires capital funding for a project, the organisation could give 1.5% or 2% but no DIRT tax would be payable on it. That means, first and foremost, that the banks would lose the money for the time being. The individual donor will gain more than in a bank. The important thing from a capital viewpoint, however, is that an organisation could benefit. In other words, instead of borrowing at 4% or 5% it could borrow at half that rate. I will not go into the details now, however.

If we take this matter forward and have some type of assembly or forum - private rather than public - there will be a great opportunity to get down to the real nitty-gritty of putting the infrastructure together that will sell the concept to which we are all committed. We all believe the potential is there. The tone of the Minister's address and the other contributions to the debate mark a good starting point. We should take it forward from here.

As my party's spokesperson on the arts, I will concentrate on the initiatives that have been introduced by the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Deenihan. Senator Keane has referred to the other points that are worthy of discussion. Last May, the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, announced the introduction of a new philanthropic initiative on a pilot basis for arts and cultural organisations.

As the Minister, Deputy Hogan, has stated, the philanthropic leverage initiative was designed to encourage philanthropic sponsorship and endowment of the arts from private sources. The initiative, established with funding of €230,000 for 2012, has provided an incentive to arts organisations to proactively seek new funding relationships with sponsors which deliver private sector financial support, thereby increasing the overall funding available to the arts.

The initiative was available across projects of varying scale, geography and art forms to not-for-profit organisations for arts programming projects. The organisations approved for funding under the initiative were required to procure matching philanthropic funds and complete their drawdown from the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht in 2012. Matched funding could not come from public funds or any public sector organisation. It was anticipated that a multiple of 3.5 on the pilot initiative funding of €230,000 would result in philanthropic funding of some €800,000 being raised for the arts. The initiative proved to be very successful with a multiplier of 4.26 in philanthropic donations being leveraged for the arts.

Therefore, the arts got a boost of more than €1 million last year of which less than one fifth came from the public purse. That was a real result. Senator Mac Conghail has mentioned the fact.

The Minister recently announced details of new philanthropy initiatives for 2013. There was a slight reduction in the funding to €210,000, which will be available to arts organisations under the scheme. The terms of the scheme allow arts and culture organisations to apply to the philanthropy initiative for funding if they can generate funding from the private sector. There are various scales. Up to €5,000 in funding can be accessed through the scheme if the organisation can match each euro from the taxpayer with €2 from the private sector. A total of €10,000 can be accessed if an organisation can match each euro with €3 from the private sector. The sum of €15,000 can be accessed if each euro can be matched by €4 from the private sector.

Priority is given to arts-in-education projects. Everything is being dealt with on a first-come, first-served basis but an advantage is given to arts-in education projects aimed at DEIS schools, which I welcome. This year the majority of philanthropy initiative funding will be directed towards the arts and culture organisations seeking to support projects that include an educational component. That is designed to support another of the Department’s policy initiatives on arts and culture. The arts-in-education charter was launched in January by the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Deenihan, and the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn. The charter sets out a range of actions to be undertaken by the two Departments, the cultural institutions, the Arts Council and arts organisations. In 2013 it is hoped that the philanthropy initiative will continue to provide an incentive to arts organisations to engage in fund-raising. It will also encourage arts and culture organisations to engage creatively with children and young people and add to their education. In so doing, they will help to foster the artists and audiences of the future.

The Minister has already mentioned RAISE and the Arts Council. I welcome the presence of representatives from Business to Arts. The Department has provided support for Business to Arts for a number of years. In each of the past three years that has been allocated to the delivery of new stream programmes which builds fund-raising skills in the cultural sector in this country. I have personal experience of the good work of Business to Arts through the Lundbeck art awards. I acknowledge the work of Business to Arts in supporting arts initiatives.

A cultural technology grant has also been provided by the Department. In 2010 it awarded a grant of €20,000 under the cultural technology grant scheme to Business to Arts for the Fund it initiative. Business to Arts initially matched the figure with private funding and has since attracted additional foundation funds for the project. As Senator Mac Conghail mentioned, dialogue between the Departments is very important in order to achieve the shared ambitions. Flexibility is also important in such an area. We must be realistic given the size and means of the country, especially at the moment, and ensure we focus on more than philanthropy. We must recognise other sources of private investment. I thank the Minister.

I welcome the Minister to the House. I have a couple of words to add to the eloquence of my colleague, Senator Mac Conghail, who proposed the motion and Senator van Turnhout who seconded the motion.

I thank the Minister and his office for engaging so co-operatively with the Independent Senators on the motion and for the new information provided in his speech. Senator Mac Conghail will comment on it in his concluding remarks. I acknowledge the way in which my colleague, Senator Mac Conghail, approached the Minister, Deputy Hogan, in a co-operative spirit in order that we could have a debate in a positive way and that the House would not be divided. The topic is too important for that to happen. There is a crisis and we encourage the Government to respond to it. We are heartened by the response. It is a very good day for the Seanad in terms of the way the business is being conducted on the issue.

Senator Mac Conghail referred to himself as a fund-raiser and philanthropist. All the Independent Members who tabled the motion are fund-raisers. We are all philanthropists too in perhaps a new understanding of that word and we speak from expertise and experience, which is so important. Sometimes when we talk about the importance of the Seanad we refer to drawing on the experience and expertise in such debates. Some of us are art entrepreneurs, others are social entrepreneurs and community development activists but we all bring the experience to the debate. Approximately 25 years ago when I began some of my work with others in the west Tallaght community there were no Government grants for community development, but there were a lot of bake sales and cake sales. There are still many of those and long may they last. It is important that happens. As time went on more and more Government grants came on-stream for work within communities and the arts and eventually a plethora of grants was available in the boom time which seems so long ago now. More recently there was a pull-back in terms of the grants. Both within the arts as well as the community and social sectors we have grown and now there is a pull-back. It is a very important time to look at the issues that are being debated such as the forum on philanthropy and, as Senator van Turnhout described so eloquently, encouraging a new way of understanding philanthropy and giving within this country.

Within the time period of the plethora of grants and eventually the pull-back of same, for such a small country we were fortunate to have two extraordinary philanthropies to join the efforts of those of us who were working within the arts community and social sectors, namely, Atlantic Philanthropies and also the One Foundation. Tom Costello is present this afternoon representing all of his wonderful colleagues in Atlantic Philanthropies. As Senator Mac Conghail said, Deirdre Mortell was present earlier in another forum. The philanthropy organisations and the philanthropists behind them filled a gap and encouraged us to become strategic. They looked for results. They gave us a business model. They led us into the use of a scientific model. They believed in communities and worked with them and with government. What an extraordinary legacy those two philanthropic organisations in particular leave for us as they move forward.

One of the reasons the forum report is so significant – it is great to hear the Government response – is because we cannot lose what we have learned through their presence in this country. We must maximise their investment. This country has a unique opportunity to take those lessons forward. This is another way in which we can be a model for Europe. We are poised. We have had this extraordinary investment and the Government is now responding – not that it had not done so previously – but this is an extremely critical time as the philanthropies start to leave us.

As the Minister indicated in his concluding remarks, everyone can be a philanthropist. It has to do with taking the generosity of heart and spirit and using it perhaps in a more planned and strategic way of giving. It does not have to do with the amount one gives. Senator Mac Conghail mentioned legacies. I have left legacies. I hope all Senators have. I did it a couple of years ago. It is great that we have started this debate. It is crucial for the Government to move forward on philanthropy. That is why it is lovely to hear all the things outlined by the Minister and also the suggestions from the other side of the House about ways to move it forward, in addition to the comments of my colleagues.

It is as crucial that we move forward on this issue as it is to move forward on the banks, mortgages and jobs. This is because cultural and social investment lead to economic growth. If there is economic growth without cultural and social well-being, it means nothing.

I thank the Independent Taoiseach's nominee Senators for introducing this motion and compliment the Government on accepting it. It is a good day for the Seanad when these motions are accepted.

I acknowledge some of the organisations that have worked hard without any State funding, such as Older and Bolder, which is now winding up, which will be a terrible loss after all the work it did for the elderly. I am very disappointed to see it is closing but I record my thanks and appreciation for its work for the elderly. Another organisation with which I have worked closely is the Parkinson's Association of Ireland, which does not get a penny in funding from the State but does huge work on a voluntary basis for those who suffer with Parkinson's disease, keeping sufferers informed of all their rights and the facilities available to them.

During a recession voluntarism is vital. The people of Ireland are well known for their charity and they always dig deep to find the few bob for those organisations. People are suffering but they still help out these organisations. It does not always have to be money. If a person gives time and expertise to mentor young people, showing them the right way forward, that is also philanthropy. I know many people are bringing youths into their groups. In Rathmore, County Kerry, the sheltered housing has been put in place using youth work. The young people in that area are unbelievable, giving a huge amount of time to the sheltered housing organisation.

I acknowledge the Older and Bolder group, as it is winding down. It will be missed.

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after ‘‘Seanad Éireann’’ and substitute the following:

"welcomes:

— a national debate on the current context and challenges facing the not-for-profit sector with regards to philanthropy, fund-raising, sponsorship and private giving in Ireland;

notes

— the publication in May 2012 under the auspices of the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government of the report of the Forum on Philanthropy and Fundraising;

— that according to the Irish Non-Profits Knowledge Exchange the not-for-profit sector in Ireland employs over 100,000 people across the community, voluntary, sporting and cultural sector and has a pay cost of €3.5 billion;

— that 32% of the not-for-profit sector in the Irish Non-Profit Database are unincorporated, which means that pending the commencement of the Charities Act, we have no regulatory source of financial information about them;

— with concern that there is no centralised register available on the level of State funding given to the not-for-profit sector;

— recognises that the community sector is estimated to be worth €6.5 billion to the economy, three times the size of the State’s investment, proving that the community and voluntary sector is a cost-effective medium for the provision of many vital services;

— notes that the cut to funding in the community and voluntary services is entirely disproportionate to the level of cutbacks across the Exchequer;

— notes that the delivery costs of many of the services currently provided by this sector would be substantially greater if Government Departments, the HSE, or private companies were to deliver the same level of service directly;

— notes that the community and voluntary sector provides essential services which the State and private sectors are unwilling or unable to provide and that the services they provide are cost-effective and have a key preventive function;

— acknowledges that it is unacceptable for the State to abdicate its own responsibility for the delivery of vital services to the community and voluntary sector without providing adequate support and long-term security of funding;

— condemns the hollowing out of genuine community development by abolishing voluntary boards of management and placing control under partnership programmes which undermines local democracy and the bottom-up approach on which community development is based;

— notes that the programme for Government states "We will work with stakeholders in the Arts Community to develop proposals aimed at building support of the Arts in Ireland exploring philanthropic, sponsorship or endowment fund opportunities" - (Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht);

— notes that there is a dearth of accurate and robust data on which to base public policy in this area;

— notes that the declining public funding environment and the exiting of two major foundations from Ireland (One Foundation and Atlantic Philanthropies) puts the sustainability of the sector in doubt;

— recognises that while the value of philanthropy is obvious, that it cannot act as an effective substitute for essential services, funded by the Exchequer;

— notes that approximately 20% of the national lottery fund goes to arts and heritage funding, with 19.4% going to sports and 36% going to community organisations;

welcomes:

— the initiatives within the voluntary, community and the arts sector across public and private organisations to build on capacity and leveraging for fund-raising, in particular:

- the philanthropy leverage initiative by the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht;

- pilot RAISE scheme by the Arts Council;

- new stream by business to arts;

— the work of both Philanthropy Ireland and Fundraising Ireland in supporting training and capacity building across the community and voluntary sectors;

— welcomes the proposal in the Finance Bill 2013 to simplify the tax incentive for charity donations;

— calls on the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to update the Seanad on the progress of the recommendations of the report of the Forum on Philanthropy and Fundraising;

calls on the Government to:

— reverse the cuts in funding to the community and voluntary sector and move towards multi-annual funding in order to allow organisations to plan ahead and end the practice of funding bodies requiring the production of detailed business plans before giving any indication of the size of the budget available for the year in question;

— ring-fence €50 million per year from the dormant accounts fund for the community and voluntary sector, ring-fence moneys seized by the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, for community development and community-based drug projects;

— reconceptualise and extend the community employment, CE, scheme, and increasing the number of CE places available;

— outline the impact of the departure of key philanthropic organisations such as Atlantic Philanthropies and One Foundation;

— implement the Labour Court recommendations and, furthermore, to allow community and voluntary sector workers to negotiate their pay and conditions on a collective basis by introducing a mechanism involving Departments, employers and workers which establishes the right to collective bargaining; and

— establish an all-Ireland consultative civic forum promised by the Good Friday Agreement, which would enable communities to engage with others across civic society and across the country and share information, learning and best practice on an All-Ireland basis".

The motion is reasonable and I commend the Independent Taoiseach's nominee Senators for tabling it. It has much to commend it. It is, however, a weak motion that does not truly call upon the Government to take real action. I understand why Senators tabled such a motion: to get support from the Government, which makes sense. As someone who worked in the community and voluntary sector, however, I know at first hand the devastating impact of the cuts that have been inflicted on many of those groups over recent years and the effect they have had on the groups' ability to deliver services and programmes. On that basis, the motion does not offer those groups and others in the sector any real justice in that it does not hold the Government to account.

We cannot have a debate on a subject like this without being frank about the matter. The community and voluntary sector is at crisis point. The decline will be irreversible if action is not taken now. The good work that has been done in communities over the last 20 years or more will be lost. We are tabling this amendment on that basis.

A number of key points must be made about the community and voluntary sectors and about the philanthropy and funding sectors. In acknowledging the excellent work they do, we should recognise that they are forced to do certain work because the Government is unable and often unwilling to undertake such work. This is a key point. Successive Governments have been perfectly happy to reduce their involvement in various sectors and allow the slack to be taken up by community and voluntary bodies. The same goes to an even greater extent for local government. I discussed this with the Minister responsible in a separate debate some months ago. When communities are suffering because of cutbacks, the community and voluntary sector is being asked to step into the breach and provide services previously provided by local authorities or State agencies. It is important these organisations and community fora are supported but they are taken for granted because the Government knows many of the people who work in these bodies will serve their communities regardless of whether they are paid. Therefore, the Government is perfectly happy to make substantial cuts to the budget for the community and voluntary sector. Most groups working in the community, voluntary and youth sectors in the past five years have seen cuts between 30% and 40%.

As the amendment notes, the cuts have been utterly disproportionate, far greater than the cutbacks in other areas, but the Government is mistaken if it believes these cuts will not do any serious damage to communities and community development. We have already lost many valuable and useful bodies and the viability of many more have been called into question. There is not a Senator in this House who is not in touch with his local community and development companies and voluntary organisations, many of which are surviving day to day and week to week. Many of those projects are at crisis point because of a lack of funding. That is the reality for many working in the sector.

This is not about protecting jobs in the sector. I am talking about protecting the bodies themselves and the work that is being done. Increasingly, responsibility is being pushed onto volunteers. I will give an example from Waterford. The Waterford City Community Forum is made up of 220 community and voluntary organisations but is struggling to maintain funding. One would think an organisation that acts as an umbrella group for 220 organisations would receive significant funding. The funding for 2010 was €24,000 and this year it was €11,000. A part-time worker doing less than half a working week is all the community forum has to survive but funding is still being cut. How much more can it take before it can no longer exist? I call on the Minister to restore the funding to community fora throughout the State to pre-2010 levels. This is one of a number of fora across the State that provide a valuable service in bringing together a range of community and voluntary organisations, and there are many more similar examples.

I have raised the need for multi-annual finance and budgeting. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government said he supports this, which I welcomed when we discussed it last year. He told me he would look at that idea as it was good practice, better than annual funding streams which have a lack of certainty. If there is multi-annual budgeting, the groups know three to five years in advance what their budgets will be and can plan service provision accordingly. It makes perfect sense and I hope we can get to that point at some stage.

Certain revenue streams will be drying up in the future. Considering the recommendations of the report of the Forum on Philanthropy and Fundraising, the bodies referred to have contributed significantly to Irish life. Of that there is no doubt whatsoever. The One Foundation has a unique and interesting philosophy with its own prescribed shelf life where it aims to wrap up in ten years. Its work varies substantially, taking in sectors such as youth mental health and integration. Its outlay so far is €72 million, a considerable sum.

The foundation has done a great deal of work in many different sectors, including supporting young people from the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender, LGBT, community. Atlantic Philanthropies has also done much work in this regard.

All the philanthropic organisations are important and I welcome any decision by the wealthy in society to invest in the community or voluntary sector. However, the best way to ensure sufficient money is available to provide the services communities need is to tax wealth more through specific wealth taxes or increases in taxes within a progressive taxation system. This is the direction in which we should move, rather than depending on a small number of people with money to be so good as to give some of their money back to communities. Fair play to those who do so but the most sustainable approach is to have a proper, progressive taxation system that ensures we have sufficient money to provide the services people deserve to have as of right.

I again commend the Independent Senators for tabling the motion. In pressing the amendment, albeit not to a vote, I acknowledge the reason the motion was presented in its current form. Unfortunately, however, Sinn Féin cannot support it.

Céad fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Is breá an rud Gaeilgeoir a bheith linn gur féidir linn beagán Gaeilge a úsáid. Ba mhaith liom cuidiú leis an leasú atá á chur chun cinn. I second the amendment.

Aithním, ach an oiread le mo chomhghleacaí, an Seanadóir Cullinane, an dea-mhéin atá leis an rún seo agus an iarracht atá ar bun maidir le comhoibriú a fháil trasna an Tí ar an gceist. Bhíomar istigh, ag am lóin, ag cur i láthair a rinne grúpaí óige, as An Chabrach, Fionnghlas agus Baile Munna i mBaile Átha Cliath mar a tharlaíonn sé, atá ag oibriu san earnáil dheonach. Ní fhéadfainnse seasamh anseo gan na pointí breise seo agus gan an leasú seo a bhrú chun cinn i bhfianaise an méid a chuala mé inniu.

Bhí na grúpaí sin ag caint ar chomh deacair is atá sé acu maireachtáil i gceantair atá faoi bhrú agus ag daoine óga atá faoi bhrú. Bhí an seomra AV lán le daoine óga inniu, agus iad ag caint faoin tábhacht atá leis na seirbhísí óige. Tá cuid des na seirbhísí sin tar éis gearradh siar 30% a fheiceáil ina gcuid maoinithe le riar blianta anuas. Tá cuid acu a raibh seisear fostaithe acu dhá bhliain ó shin nach bhfuil acu ach beirt anois. Tá cuid acu a bhí ábalta tósta agus cupán tae a chur ar fáil bliain ó shin nach bhfuil in ann a leithéid a dhéanamh anois. Céim an-mhór ar gcúl é sin.

An pointe mór a bhíodar ag déanamh, agus ní miste an pointe seo a dhéanamh, go mbeidh costas ollmhór ag an ngearradh siar, atá beag sa ghearrthéarma, ar an Stát amach anseo. Bhíodar ag caint linn faoi na deacrachtaí atá ag ardú ó thaobh daoine óga ag ól, daoine óga ar na sráideanna agus a bheith i dtrioblóid leis an Gharda mar gheall nach bhfuil aon áit acu le dul agus nach bhfuil na seirbhísí ar fáil. Is iad na daoine óga iad féin ata á rá seo.

Sin an fáth a bhfuil mé ag brú leasuithe ar an rún tábhachtach seo, cé go n-aithnímid an ról atá déanta ag eagraíochtaí ar nós Atlantic Philanthropies agus an One Foundation. Bhí mé anseo agus thréaslaigh mé leis an cur i láthair a rinneadar anseo sna Tithe. Bhí sé iontach maith agus tá sé feicthe agam trí chuid de na comhlachtaí páirtíochta an maoiniú atá déanta acu ar scéimeanna éagsúla le blianta fada anuas. Tá an-tábhacht agus an-fhiúntas leis an infheistíocht a dhéanann siad ach ní cóir go dtógfaidís ról an Stáit san infheistíocht seo.

The amendment seeks to add to the motion by committing the Government to specific actions. Dar linne, ní théann an rún sách fada mar níl sé ag cur brú ar an Rialtas aon cheo faoi leith a dhéanamh. Sinn Féin calls on the Government to take concrete steps to reverse the cuts to the community and voluntary sector and protect it from further decline. While we recognise current budgetary difficulties, we identified in our pre-budget submissions and elsewhere from where the required funding would come. As Senator Cullinane stated, we must target wealth. Sinn Féin calls on the Minister to ring-fence €50 million per annum from the dormant accounts fund and ring-fence the moneys seized by the Criminal Assets Bureau for community development and community drugs-based projects. This proposal is important in the context of a presentation we heard today. Money seized by the Criminal Assets Bureau should be used in areas where drugs are having a devastating effect, for example, Finglas, Cabra and Ballymun. This would be a positive move.

Sinn Féin calls on the Government to reconceptualise the community employment scheme and broaden its application. This is a key time to have strong community employment schemes in place. Many people are out of work and we often hear members of the Government parties speak of the need for job activation to get people back to work. Community employment is the ideal model for achieving this objective. More places must be provided on community employment schemes and greater recognition must be given to the work they do.

Sinn Féin also calls on the Government to establish an all-Ireland consultative civic forum and thereby fulfil one of the outstanding commitments made in the Good Friday Agreement. As the motion notes, such a forum would enable communities to engage with others across civic society.

What is the position on the percentage for arts scheme for large capital infrastructure projects? Is the programme still in place or in use? I ask the Minister to provide an update on how the moneys in the scheme are being used. Opinion on the benefits of scheme was mixed as some people thought the art was not appropriate to some of the settings in which it was placed. I note the Minister is indicating the scheme is under review.

Notwithstanding the economic downturn, we must continue to invest in the arts as they are an important part of our culture and society. I note the President's call - the Glaoch - for all of us to embrace our arts, culture, language and music. Our culture provides a wonderful stimulus for tourism but the arts, of themselves, are also important to the nation. Initiatives such as the percentage for arts scheme can play an important role if used properly and must not be abolished.

I commend the ingenuity of groups in the arts and community and voluntary sectors in using various means to pre-fund their projects. If they can get a sufficient number of people to invest in an arts, theatre or music project through an online forum, it will cover most of the costs of the project. The arts community is doing a great deal of its own volition and raising substantial funds through sponsorship of programmes. With much of these funds drying up, there is an onus on the Government not to baulk at its responsibility in this area.

Sin an fáth go bhuil mé ag cuidiú leis an leasú ar an rún. Níl mé ag caitheamh droch-mheasa ar mo chomhghleacaithe Neamhspleácha, ach a mhalairt ar fad. Ní bheadh sé ceart nó cuí agamsa seasamh anseo inniu muna sheasfainn suas don dream a bhí ag labhairt liom inniu agus don dream a bhí ag plé le cúrsaí ealaíona thiar i nGaillimh nuair a bhí mé ag déileáil leo. Sin an fáth go bhfuilimid ag tairgeadh na leasaithe seo. Tá súil againn go dtógfaidh an tAire agus an Rialtas ar bord é agus go dtiocfaidís ar ais le freagraí ar chuid de na ceisteanna atá ardaithe againn.

I welcome the Minister and thank him for coming to the House. I commend the Independent Senators on tabling this motion as it shows they are well aware of the difficulty associated with working in the not-for-profit sector. Those involved in the sector are enriching communities in the arts and social enterprise area.

I propose to focus on the concept of giving back through philanthropy. My first formal experience with philanthropy was in 2012 when Galway hosted the Volvo Ocean Race. I was asked by many people to seek additional funding for the event and to be fair to the Minister, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, he obliged through a new philanthropic approach adopted in his Department. Under this approach, the Department agreed to provide funding for events if the organisers could show they had been able to raise a certain amount. A specific ratio was used - I believe it was 1:5 - under which the organisers of the Volvo Ocean Race would receive approximately €20,000 if they raised €100,000. While I consider the ratio to be too low, as a concept, this approach is correct and we are on to something good.

Senator Ó Murchú asked how we would sell this concept. We will not have any problem selling it in the current environment, provided we raise public awareness of it and acknowledge the events or groups that are receiving the benefits.

Philanthropy could be, not just as good as a bank, because I am not too impressed with the banks, but better than any bank if we get the right structures in place and incentivise it correctly. There are two types of donors. The first are the very big, generous donors, some of whom have been mentioned, like Atlantic Philanthropies. That organisation has a strategic plan in place around philanthropy and has, as Senator Zappone pointed out, taught us all so much. The second group is the small donors who are just as important, if not more so.

We had a public consultation session in this very Chamber recently, spear-headed by me, Senators Mac Conghail and Quinn, involving discussions with the One Foundation, Social Entrepreneurs Ireland, Ashoka and Women for Election on the topic of helping communities to help themselves. It was acknowledged during that session that everyone needs a bit of funding along the way. One of the most interesting things to emerge from that day, which I am exploring at a legislative level, is the concept of crowd funding, which involves the setting up of a type of social bank. As an individual, one might have €50 to give to a good cause but one does not know whether the cause is genuine or that the money will be used productively. The idea is that the individual would lodge that money in a crowd funding bank. That bank would then fund a certain number of worthy projects every year. I want to explore this concept further and would be delighted if any of my colleagues would join me in that exploration. We must bring forward many mechanisms to encourage people to give in a structured way in order that they know their money is going to a cause or project that is worthy. It would be very easy to sell this concept if it was accompanied by tax breaks and a range of other incentives.

I ask the Minister of State to bring this idea to his Cabinet colleagues because in these times, we need to use every available methodology to leverage money. As others have said, we live in a country of haves and have-nots. One half of the people have no money left at the end of every week while the other half have savings. There is in excess of €100 billion in savings in this country. What can we do to leverage some of that money? That is the question. If we could leverage it and then direct it into worthwhile projects, that would be wonderful.

I am trying to develop a young creators centre in Galway. I have conducted a feasibility study and invested personal funds in it. I have also received some funding from Leader, for which I am very grateful. To get this young creators centre, which will be built around areas of need, up and running, I need to access more money. I have a voluntary committee that will give time but who among us has the funding to be able to sign on the bottom line to draw down money for a building and to operate programmes? None of us has it right now but I am not giving up because I know the concept is good. We have so many young people in this country who are not adequately served by the education system. While we have a great education system, we need to run on twin tracks. We need to find a means to harness young people's creativity and innovative capacity. That must be done from senior primary school right the way through second level. Our children are still making relatively poor choices going into third level because they are not sure what they want to do. That is because they have not had enough experience in the various areas they might like. It is for that group of young people that I want to develop a creative centre. If we could fund that, we might also be able to roll it out as a model for the country. In the context of educational projects, I say well done to the likes of Atlantic Philanthropies and George Soros, who have done incredible work in eastern Europe and countries with very low literacy levels.

Senator Cullinane argued that this motion is not holding the Government to account, but I disagree. We have started the process of raising awareness and are indicating in this House that this is a good concept. We are working together. It is time to celebrate good ideas and this is a brilliant idea. Let us find ways to incentivise it and structure it. We must look at the concept of crowd funding, which seems inherently good. I thank Senators Mac Conghail and van Turnhout for tabling the motion.

I welcome the motion because it is appropriate that attention be brought to bear on this sector. I also welcome the fact that the Government will pay some attention to the not-for-profit and charitable sectors, which are somewhat distinct.

I speak with a little authority on this issue and wish to give the House an opportunity to understand how a small idea can grow into something which not only meets its original intention but also has unintended spin-off benefits. I also wish to point out some of the potential pitfalls which I hope the Government will avoid in increasing its level of scrutiny of the charitable sector.

Back in the 1990s, it was brought to my attention that Ireland was the only country in the world that had not contributed patients to the major European and international cancer research network trials. Without giving the House a lecture on cancer research, many of the advances which have occurred in cancer research have happened because of co-operative trials. In such trials, groups of hospitals and investigators come together to ask and answer questions which require a large number of patients. The questions can be answered and trials then conducted in a single institution or, in some cases, in a single country. Some of the most important discoveries in cancer research, such as the fact that women did not need to lose their breast when they developed breast cancer, that lesser surgery plus radiotherapy could be effective, or that simple, old-style chemotherapy given to women after breast cancer or to men and women after bowel cancer would improve their chances of a cure were the result of large-scale clinical trials. In many cases, these trials took place through organisations that were set up as not-for-profit bodies. The United States of America, in particular, had a large number of such organisations and, with the passage of time, they developed closer relationships with the Government and achieved a degree of federal funding. That had its benefits but, in some cases, its drawbacks. One of the most outstanding cancer research programmes in the United States was led by Dr. Dennis Slamon, a recent visitor to our shores and someone who has been a great friend to Ireland for many years. He is a man whose research has probably saved more lives than that of any other cancer researcher in the world. All of his work took place in the context of charitable funding when he originally had great difficulty in raising Government funding for his work.

Armed with these facts, we set up the Irish Co-operative Oncology Research Group, ICORG, in 1997. All the oncologists in Ireland were involved, that is, all six of us. The joke used to be that we could have our AGM in a telephone kiosk. That organisation has grown and succeeded and now has substantial Government and philanthropic funding. It also generates a huge amount of funding from the pharmaceutical industry. The quality of the work done is such that companies have been more than willing to help to develop new drugs here. This has had the spin-off benefit of creating jobs within the group and making better treatments available to Irish patients. Another major collateral benefit is that many of the pharmaceutical companies in Ireland, which only had a sales force before or a few sales representatives giving out pens and samples to doctors, have now developed large, muscular, well staffed research offices, which are well financed with international funding and which service the needs of clinical trials being conducted here.

The initial primary goal was to bring new treatments to Irish cancer patients and there are a number of such patients still alive today who were given early access to a drug for the treatment of chronic myeloid leukaemia. That drug was not widely available for several years after it was developed but without it, those patients would have died. The early access facilitated by the existence of our group kept them alive. I am sorry for the naked self-promotion on behalf of my research colleagues but this was social entrepreneurship before we knew what that term meant. As a result of the formation of the group, there are approximately 120 people employed across the hospitals and in the central office of ICORG, co-ordinating the research. We estimate that between 100 and 200 additional jobs in industry in Ireland would not have existed before the group was set up. Most importantly, 7,000 Irish cancer patients, disproportionately women with breast cancer, have had access to new treatments, bringing in an estimated €40 million worth of free drugs into this country over the 15 years the group has been in existence.

There are many ways in which this activity can repay, not just from the actual social benefit it brings. I now come to my punchline. I ask the Minister of State and his colleagues to be careful. It is important that the sector be appropriately regulated because there have been international examples of charities that have run amok and not behaved to the highest ethical standards and been beyond reproach. It really hurts the entire charity sector when that happens. There is a fine line between doing that and overregulating and stifling it. Great care will be needed in setting this up. As someone who founded three charities and was one of the first to get them voluntarily in line with international guidelines, I think it is important to be able to say that what one does is beyond reproach. However, there have been examples - I will not go into them today - where the overreach of bureaucracy can sometimes stifle the development of vital initiatives.

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I also welcome all our guests from the sector. We have just heard from Senator Crown. Like many of my fellow Senators, I come to this debate as someone who has founded a charitable organisation which has in the past received and hopes in the future to receive funds from philanthropy, fundraising, sponsorship and private giving. The sources of moneys referred to have been invaluable funding streams for a sector, involving very ill babies, which does not attract the recognition it warrants or deserves. For this reason I congratulate Senator Mac Conghail and my fellow Independent Senators on initiating this debate in the House.

Just over one month ago I published a report on the urgent need for regulation of the Irish charities sector to reaffirm public trust and confidence. I hope to bring the report before the Seanad with my colleagues in the coming months for discussion. I have shied away from doing this to date because the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, only last week closed his public consultation phase on the Charities Act 2009. Having had several meetings with the Minister, I am confident he knows the importance of implementing the Charities Act for the future development of the Irish charity and not-for-profit sector. I look forward to us all re-engaging with the Minister in the coming weeks and months as he plots the best way to proceed with the Act. With all due respect to the Minister and while I greatly welcomed his launch of the forum on philanthropy and fundraising, I could not but wonder why the charities regulator was not first put in place. This did not show joined-up thinking by different sectors of the Government.

Senator Mac Conghail correctly points out that there is a severe lack of publicly available information on the sector's financial activities. Some organisations are largely unregulated or unsupervised by virtue of their formation. Voluntary codes of practice exist, but adoption has been very slow. As one can imagine, this poses many difficulties for the sector and the Government is operating in the dark when it comes to public policy and funding for the sector, which benefits nobody. The Government chose to stop funding INKEx which was and still remains the only database of reliable financial information about the not-for-profit and charity sector. That decision was incorrect and represents a major loss to the sector. I ask the Minister to clarify why he stopped INKEx and whether he has any plans to acquire it or re-engage it. In these severely stretched economically challenged times, why did we chose to stop INKEx which collected all the information on 12,000 not-for-profit and charity groups and was beginning to do the joined-up thinking we crucially needed? When I started to look at what INKEx had done, I realised that the Government probably gives in excess of €4 billion to the charity and not-for-profit sector. For example, how many autism charities are there in Ireland? How many autism charities are there in Munster or Leinster? We can use this in the arts and can use this regarding children. Maybe there could have been collaboration between charities. We might have found areas of crossover. Statisticians, journalists, the public, donors and those involved in philanthropy need the transparency and clarity that INKEx readily gave us. It will take time to put that back in practice.

The majority of Irish charities and not-for-profit organisations act in an exemplary fashion, being guided by a moral and genuine passion for the cause or activities they undertake. We need to reflect on why so many charities prop up the State in the provision of vital services where the State has been found wanting. I will use the example of the Jack and Jill Children's Foundation, with which I am very familiar. Its purpose is to nurse severely-ill and severely brain-damaged - sometimes palliative - children in their own homes. In his speech the Minister referred to partnership, a point that relates to all charities, including in the areas of arts, education, children and cancer. I challenge the use of the word "partnership". Senator Cullinane will be interested in these straitened times. The Jack and Jill Children's Foundation has raised €38 million to date. The Government has given 18% of that money to us. I cannot call 18% a partnership. It is a very welcome donation but cannot be called a partnership.

Senator Crown made a very good speech and I felt almost jealous because those of us involved in charities and not-for-profit organisations are very competitive. He mentioned the pharmaceutical companies. I wish the Jack and Jill Children's Foundation had that because these are difficult times and we are in competition - I am in competition with Independent Senators for funding. We need partnerships with the Government and need transparency because we are all desperately passionate about looking after our own areas. As Senator Cullinane said, these are tough times and all we are getting from the Government at the moment are cuts and more cuts.

My desire to assist and reform the regulation if Irish charities is based solely on a love and deeply rooted respect for the sector and the thousands of men and women who work tirelessly to improve the lives of those they encounter. My agenda and that of my fellow Senators is simply to improve public trust and confidence. There is a very real thirst among the public and our donors to see that their taxes and private donations are being spent properly and reflect value. The lack of an operational charities regulator makes Ireland virtually unique in the developed world, something of which we are not proud. Even the creation of a charities regulator will fall short of what would be required to deal with the not-for-profit sector as many not-for-profit organisations are not registered as charities and the charities regulator will have no oversight of not-for-profit organisations.

Many Senators may believe I have thrown away my green jersey and I am damaging this wonderful sector by casting doubt over financial reporting and the practices within the sector in Ireland. That is not my intention - far from it. I merely express the views I have encountered from people working in the sector, accountants, solicitors, corporate sponsors, donors, international observers and funding organisations. I have nearly finished.

The Senator is two minutes over time.

I thank the Minister of State, but I must keep to the time.

The Minister of State is very gracious. I will finish up. Regardless of whether we like it, the endless good work that is being done in this vast sector is being hampered.

The State has failed to put in place the systems and processes required to have a not-for-profit sector that is functioning at its full potential.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd, who has joined us for the latter part of the debate. I thank all the Senators who participated and remind Senator Cullinane that the purpose of the motion is to provide a philosophical framework for the beginning of this discussion, in order that every Member of the House has a shared understanding of what is a great challenge, a challenge we are ready for, which is engaging with our fellow citizens both abroad and here about how they might commit on a strategic basis to whatever cause or journey is required.

Senator Daly has mentioned that we are very good givers when there is a crisis. What we want to do is shift that culture in a more strategic direction. It does not matter whether it is €1 million or €2. That is what we are trying to examine and for Senator Cullinane to accuse us of not calling the Government to account is disingenuous. In the last couple of sessions we have certainly called the Government to account. Last December, for example, our group tabled a motion on the value of youth work, while in September we used our group's time to raise the issue of the organisations working with children with life limiting conditions. We have a track record of raising challenges facing the sector. I was disappointed that Senator Cullinane did not engage with the core philosophy behind this motion and offer his personal history about, perhaps, how he engaged with his local voluntary community groups with regard to fundraising and philanthropy. I hope he will not divide the House. This is a motion on which we are trying to work together in order that we can bring it forward to the next stage. We might even bring it to the environment committee when Senator Mary Ann O'Brien introduces her motion later in the term.

Our role as Independent Senators is to represent the debates, conversations and concerns of our respective communities and to relay them here in the Seanad. We are doing that today. Our ability to encourage and increase the standard of the way we work is an important point in that regard.

The Minister made some serious and key announcements today, certainly announcements of which I was not aware. I will repeat them for the record. He made a commitment to provide matching funding of €1.9 million over three years for the set-up costs of the social innovation fund. Later in his speech he made a commitment of €10 million. The social innovation fund is something many of our partners in the not-for-profit sector have been calling for and it is a recommendation in the report. Subject to Philanthropy Ireland matching that funding we will have a social innovation fund ready to go by the end of this year. That is important. I presume that coincides with the fact that the One Foundation is exiting.

The second important comment the Minister has made, certainly for me in terms of my research, is that he specifically set aside €400,000 over a three-year period, again to be matched by fundraising in Ireland, to provide for a pool of €800,000 towards capacity building in the sector. That is a headline piece of information I did not have before today. It was worth having this debate for that alone. How does that €800,000 for capacity building align with the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht's commitment to capacity building and are there savings and value for money there? If everybody is going to procure various different experts to invest and train staff, perhaps both Departments uniquely can come together. In fairness to the Minister, he acknowledged that there is continuing dialogue between the two Departments. This would be an important area for us to examine in terms of value for money and procurement.

The final big headline was that the Minister announced the setting up of the social innovation fund with a minimum amount of €10 million. That is what all our colleagues in the sector have been seeking. It was mentioned in the recommendations of the report on philanthropy and it is something we applaud.

The message from this debate is clear. I thank everybody for participating in it. The contributions of Senators Ó Murchú and Keane were very valuable, as were those of my colleagues who, together, have brought this issue to the floor of the Seanad by way of engaging with this as we get through this recovery. Senator Zappone, speaking more eloquently than I could, understood to make those connections between our various communities and bring them together. Níl neart go cur le chéile. It is about individual giving and how we can encourage our citizens to make a commitment in order that they can bear witness and become active citizens by giving that euro, attending that cake sale or by buying a ticket to see something. That commitment is something we have innately but what we must do is make it strategically. I urge Sinn Féin not to divide the House on this motion. I commend the motion and thank the Government and the Minister for supporting it.

Amendment put and declared lost.
Motion put and declared carried.
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