Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 17 Jul 2013

Vol. 225 No. 3

Order of Business

Senator Maurice Cummins

The Order of Business is No. 1, Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013 - Committee Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and adjourned not later than 4 p.m.; No. 40, Private Members' business, motion No. 6 re Special Olympics Ireland, to be taken at 4.30 p.m. and conclude not later than 6.30 p.m.; No. 2, Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012 - Committee and Remaining Stages, to be taken at 6.30 p.m. and conclude not later than 7 p.m.; No. 3, Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013 - Report Stage, to be taken at 7 p.m. and adjourned at 10 p.m., if not previously concluded.

I congratulate Senator John Gilroy on his book, A Cry in the Morning, which is being launched at 7 p.m. today. He has informed me that everybody is invited to the launch.

Senator Denis O'Donovan

I, too, congratulate Senator John Gilroy and hope to be able to attend the launch, subject to the proceedings of the House. I wish him well and commend him for his efforts.

We are giving a commitment that we will not oppose the Order of Business, even though we may wish to do so, because we have a full programme of legislation before us which may run until midnight. It will be an extremely long and busy day. I hope the debate on the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013 will be reasoned and tempered and expect no less from this House.

I am deeply concerned about the Government's attitude towards the health service across the country. Yesterday we heard about cutbacks in mental health services. This House has discussed suicide and other important issues. Any cutback to mental health funding is a backwards step and should be resisted. We will return next term with all guns blazing on cutbacks in mental health services and other areas of the health service. I am particularly concerned about the reports that have been acknowledged by the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch. It is a frightening statistic that only ten out of 109 public nursing homes meet the new standards set out by HIQA. The Minister of State has acknowledged that it will cost several hundred million euro to rectify the problem. People like Eamon Timmins of Age Action Ireland have called on the Government to ensure HIQA standards are complied with by the 2015 deadline. I urge the Government to act with urgency on this issue. The patients in these nursing homes are primarily elderly. Some are in their 80s or 90s. There was a situation recently in my own area where a small home run by a geriatric association was closed and its 11 elderly occupants faced terrible inconvenience as the health board went about the almost impossible task of finding new accommodation for them. It is appalling that the Government failed to make provision in the last two budgets to make a start on this task. The Minister of State has suggested no home will close, but if they do not meet the standards laid down, will we be running a two tier system? Are the standards for private nursing homes at higher than those applying to public homes? That would be an appalling vista. I urge the Leader to arrange a specific debate in the next term on elderly care and the nursing home debacle. If money has to be spent to ensure the elderly are treated fairly and properly, we must spend it. I am putting the Leader on notice that the issue will be top of our agenda when we return in September. We will be forcing vote after vote on the issue until such time as the Minister of State assures the elderly that they will have a safe home and a proper place in which to live out the rest of their days.

Senator Mary Moran

I support Senator Denis O'Donovan's call for a debate at the earliest opportunity in the new term on the issue of elder care and mental health services. The programme for Government pledged to take up the cause of people with mental health issues and to do all we could in this regard. It is only right and proper that we reflect on where we are and how best we can make progress.

I join in the congratulations to Senator John Gilroy on the launch of his book. He has put a lot of work into it and deserves great credit for it. I wish him all the best with his endeavours.

I refer to the issue of the Magdalen laundries and the refusal of the four religious orders to contribute to the compensation fund, as was announced yesterday. I find it extremely disappointing and insulting to the victims of the laundries. As someone who attended a convent school run by one of the religious orders in question, I am deeply disappointed. It is shameful that they have decided their only co-operation will be to provide information, records and care for people who were in their care. This decision is a huge setback. The Government tackled the issue of the Magdalen laundries for the first time and the apology given in the Dáil by the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste represented a great day for politics, but we need to do more. The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, said on radio this morning that there was no way of insisting on them paying up. I ask the religious orders to reflect on their decision and do the moral thing. I do not think this compensation should be pushed onto the taxpayer. It would be a great day if the religious orders admitted their guilt. Their response has been extremely disappointing. While they have co-operated with the McAleese commission and made progress in respect of the Quirke report, their decision is deeply distressing. I ask that the issue be raised with the relevant Ministers in order that they will put their heads together to get the congregations to pay what rightfully belongs to the survivors of the Magdalen laundries.

Senator David Norris

I would like to raise two questions with the Leader. First, Standing Orders and procedures of the House have not kept up with modern technology. I say this because of mobile phones. To my great embarrassment, my mobile phone has gone off on one or two occasions recently, for which I apologise. I have the simplest of mobile phones. I was offered an upgrade, but I asked for a downgrade because I wanted to have the simplest mobile phone. I have what is called a builder's phone - one can drop it into cement - but I still have difficulties switching it off. I am going to leave it in my office and anybody who wants to contact me can leave a message. It is very undignified that practically every person in this House - I will not name and shame them - from the highest office to the newest backbencher is twittering and tweeting from the Chamber when he or she should be attending to our business. It is disrespectful to the House and also dangerous because these accounts are hooked into newspaper links and so on and calculated for grandstanding. I suggest the Leader, in co-operation with the Cathaoirleach, consider a ban on mobile phones. We should be required to leave them outside. In the 1920s and 1930s, when Fianna Fáil first joined the Dáil -----

An Cathaoirleach

That is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, of which the Senator is a member.

Senator David Norris

I thank the Cathaoirleach for his advice. In those days Fianna Fáil Deputies agreed to leave their guns outside. In the same way, we should ask Members to leave their mobile phones outside.

I ask the Leader to contact the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to get a clear indication on whether the national bus service and private bus operators are required to ensure their vehicles pass something equivalent to the national car test. I was told several years ago that they were so required, but that appears not to be true. Every day I am behind CIE buses, tour buses and various other private vehicles that are belching black diesel smoke.

I will give the Leader an example. The 25A bus in Nassau Street, registration number 03 D 20294, was pouring out these kinds of fumes. It is not right, particularly in this hot weather, that we should have buses that are not serviced and that are emitting carcinogenic material into the atmosphere.

Senator Cáit Keane

I congratulate Senator Gilroy, who has left the Chamber, on the launch of his book.

I, too, want to raise the issue of the nuns refusing to contribute to the fund for the Magdalen survivors. I was amazed that they made that decision. I call for a debate in the House to find out who made the decision, because from my experience of the Sisters of Charity - they have the right name - the Daughters of Charity and the Mercy nuns, I do not believe they as a congregation would have made such a decision. We have had lectures from the Pope, the bishops and others on morals and ethics in terms of what we should and should not do. I call on the religious orders to have regard for morals and ethics and to re-examine this matter to see what they are doing to the Magdalen survivors. They are not doing them a service. They did them a disservice years ago and what they are doing now is slapping those women in the face. I cannot find the words to express the view that they are not doing their moral and ethical duty. The Minister's hands are tied. He cannot compel them to do that.

Senator Moran asked that the Ministers put their heads together on this matter. There is enough brainpower in this Seanad to allow us put our heads together and come up with some ideas. I am asking for a speedy debate. One in Four has asked us to make representations to the Pope. I was a member of a group called Separation of Church and State over 15 years ago. I will not make a representation to the Pope. He should look after his church and enforce moral and ethical standards. Those of us in this House will look after our own moral and ethical standards, which I hope we can uphold. I call for a speedy debate on how we can assist the sisters in making the decision I am sure the majority of them would like to make, namely, to meet their obligations.

Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú

The Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, took certain measures yesterday to ensure the integrity and the security of the national monument at Moore Street. As we know, this area is closely associated with the 1916 Rising. It was there that the leaders signed the final surrender. It is certainly one of the most historical sites in Ireland. I was glad to hear the Minister state that we owe it to the descendants of the men and women of 1916 to ensure this area is properly developed. As I interpret what the Minister has done, it appears he is thinking beyond the buildings, which is correct, and looking at this as a total battle site, which is the right way to deal with it in a historical context, but anyone who has looked inside these buildings will know that they are dilapidated. They are shocking. They are close to falling, and we are within three years of 2016, when we will celebrate the centenary of the 1916 Rising. This area will be a focal point at that time. I support the Minister in the efforts he is making. I know that when it comes to heritage there are complexities involved between the State and Dublin City Council. It would be welcome if the Leader would consider inviting the Minister into the House to outline specifically what he has in mind.

The Cathaoirleach might remember that in a previous debate we had direct descendants of the seven signatories present in the Visitors Gallery, and there was a great sense of history. There was unanimity on the floor of the House that this matter should be treated urgently. It might be worthwhile if the Minister would consider assembling a group of people representative of his Department, Dublin City Council, the relatives, the 1916 committee and so on. I do not want to see this issue drifting on, and clarity should be provided. I am pleased that it is the Minister who is handling this because he is showing that he is pragmatic and idealistic and is treating this in an urgent manner but I would hate to think of arriving at 2016 with some of those buildings having fallen. I do not know if there is any hope of having a debate before the summer recess but I ask the Leader to invite the Minister to the House as soon as possible to allow us have some dialogue with him on this matter.

Senator Aideen Hayden

I, too, congratulate my colleague, Senator John Gilroy, on the publication of his book, A Cry in the Morning. I hope we will see many colleagues help him celebrate the launch this evening.

I also commend our colleague, Senator Sean D. Barrett, and other Members of the House for a robust debate yesterday on the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Bill 2013, in which the Senator proposed an amendment to the Bill to assist tenants living in the private rented sector where rented properties are being repossessed. The Minister, Deputy Shatter, generously offered to give the matter his consideration and revert to the Senator and the House. That is a welcome development.

I raise the issue of the findings of an inquest on a 15-month-old child who fell to her death from the sixth storey of an apartment block in Phibsborough and the comments of the Dublin Coroner, Brian Farrell, who pointed out that this was the third or fourth such incident over which he has had to preside. Just last week a two-year-old boy fell from the second floor of an apartment building in Tallaght. It is a serious matter. In 2006, 78% of all buildings that were built in the urban area of Dublin were apartment blocks. For reasons to do with the economy and the fact that many people in receipt of social welfare are living in apartment blocks, including people with children, there is a real issue about the safety of children in those apartment blocks. I ask the Leader for a debate with the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, about the prospect of retrofitting some of these apartment developments with facilities for families with children, including everything from the safety of the windows and balconies to the provision of play areas, which in many of these apartment developments are lacking in their entirety. It is an important matter in terms of the way people have to live their lives.

Senator Terry Leyden

I ask the Leader, Senator Maurice Cummins, to consider having a debate in the autumn to assess the phenomenal success of The Gathering, which is being promoted by the Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Michael Ring, the Minister, Deputy Leo Varadkar, and Jim Miley, who is the organiser and chairman of the committee. Events have been held during the summer throughout Ireland and they will continue into the autumn. In my parish of Fuerty-Castlecoote, a very successful gathering was held last weekend of three schools that had been amalgamated into one, which was attended by all the families. It was a wonderful weekend. It was commercially successful for the area, and great community spirit was shown. I congratulate all involved, including the chairperson, the committee members and all the volunteers who worked over the entire weekend. It was real community spirit in Castlecoote, the most beautiful town in Ireland. We would like to discuss with the Minister in a debate in the autumn what will happen next year and beyond.

Senator Ó Murchú referred to the phenomenally important year of 2016, which will mark 100 years since the Easter Rising. Events will be held in every town and village in Ireland to commemorate that successful, courageous event in 1916.

I will suggest to the Minister at that stage that the Minister of State, Deputy Ring, be appointed to eliminate red tape in this country. We should try to create jobs and not to be inhibited by the type of red tape with which we are faced. I will give the Leader one example.

Last weekend, we wanted to have a barn dance in the village and we could not have it without a licence to dance. In Ireland, it is like getting a licence to drink Guinness.

Senator Paul Coghlan

Was there a pub open?

Senator Terry Leyden

We are known for dancing at the crossroads, but the crossroads dance today is illegal because of the red tape. That is a minor example of what is happening. Another example concerns legislation introduced some years ago about having children in hotels during the summer. In any other country in the world, such as Spain, it is different. If there were some way of dispensing with details over the course of June to September, it would enhance the economy.

An Cathaoirleach

Is the Senator looking for a debate on the issue?

Senator Terry Leyden

In the autumn, when people can assess the success of The Gathering, which has been successful to date, we can look to the future. Tourism is one of the most important businesses in the country and it can create hundreds of thousands of jobs in property development. I compliment the Minister.

Senator Paul Coghlan

I join colleagues in wishing Senator John Gilroy every success with his book launch this evening. I hope sales will take off. I am looking forward to obtaining a copy and reading it.

An Cathaoirleach

Purchasing a copy.

Senator Paul Coghlan

Obviously, yes, that goes without saying. I genuinely wish him well and have discussed it with him already. I will discuss something with the Cathaoirleach in which he might be interested.

An Cathaoirleach

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Senator Paul Coghlan

I join Senator Ó Murchú in his remarks about the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, and the so-called battle site on Moore Street. The Minister has handled it very sensitively but I am fearful of the part of the proposal involving a committee. It could become a talking shop, which is unnecessary at this stage. I would rather people such as the Senator talked to the Minister, who will always receive the Senator, and his fears could be allayed. The Minister means well, as I know from talking to him about it. In early course in the autumn, the Leader could invite the Minister to the House to give us an overview and an update.

Senator Sean D. Barrett

I join in the compliments to Senator Gilroy on the event of his book launch. We had another distinguished author in the House yesterday, the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, and as they are both in the tradition of W. B. Yeats, we are expecting Nobel prizes from the Minister and the Senator.

The very good news from the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, was his interest in the views of Senators from all sides of the House on the rights of tenants when a landlord becomes insolvent. He is open to the idea and will discuss it with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, Members of the House, New Beginning, Threshold and FLAC. There are some 150,000 buy-to-let mortgages, of which 30,000 are at risk. Some financial institutions think they can have vacant possession so we are almost back to the Land League, with its tenets of fair rent, fixity of tenure and free sale. The Minister was most receptive to what the House was saying and this is a point we should take up and run with in the interests of the 30,000 people who may be put out of their houses by the financial receivers where it is their principal private residence. We must develop a housing market in which the rented sector is much bigger than owner occupancy, which had rights, was in the past. The Minister's offer should be availed of by all Members of the House to assist those in an era when some financial institutions are contemplating evictions and repossessions.

Senator Lorraine Higgins

I join in the chorus of congratulations to my colleague, Senator John Gilroy, on the publication of his book. I look forward to attending the event this evening and purchasing a copy, and to reading not only fifty shades of Shatter during my August holidays but also Senator Gilroy's publication.

I refer to a matter highlighted in a weekend newspaper. A leading psychiatrist has taken it upon himself to write to the banks on behalf of vulnerable people telling them he will hold them responsible in the event of a patient's suicide. It is ridiculous in this day and age that we must rely on a psychiatrist to take matters upon himself when a criminal law provision must be enforced and convictions secured in order to uphold people's basic rights in circumstances in which banks and creditors are pressuring people. Section 11 of the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act 1997 provides:

A person who makes any demand for payment of a debt shall be guilty of an offence if—

(a) the demands by reason of their frequency are calculated to subject the debtor or a member of the family of the debtor to alarm, distress or humiliation

The provision has been used sparingly. Between 2003 and 2010, only one conviction was secured under the section. It shows a major failing given that the purpose of the Act is to protect people from being harassed and from distress being caused to them as a result of debts they have accrued. The banks and creditors have a right to go to court and secure judgments against people who cannot pay their debts. However, they do not have a right to destroy the lives of people and their families every day by exerting pressure. We seem to be shy about enforcing the law in Ireland. It was heartening to read how the Royal Bank of Scotland in the UK was deemed to have harassed a customer for having made more than 500 phone calls to her. The High Court in England demanded that the Royal Bank Of Scotland pay over £7,500 in compensation to the individual. I am sure there are many untold stories and on that basis I ask that the Minister for Justice and Equality come to the House to discuss this section of the legislation and the need for more convictions to be secured under it.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

Tacaím le cuid mhaith den mhéid a bhí á rá ag an Seanadóir Ó Murchú maidir le Sráid Uí Mhórdha. What is important on the issue of Moore Street is that the Minister, as indicated yesterday, meet with the 1916 relatives' group as soon as possible to discuss the development of the site in an appropriate manner. It will also bring to the attention of the Minister that there is another ionad in Connemara, Teach an Phiarsaigh, in Rosmuc, that has plans for an interpretive centre. The Government indicated it would develop it but at present it is quite unsure what will happen. I hope it will be followed up with as much vigour.

On the issue of the Magdalen laundries, it is important the Minister clarify what the Government will do to ensure the women who have suffered in the laundries get redress. I appreciate the disappointment of the Minister on the announcement yesterday but the issue is that institutions must be held to account. The Taoiseach made a well received apology, which was right, but the women of the Magdalen laundries deserve redress, as do people from the Bethany Home and those who suffered from symphysiotomy procedures.

I congratulate Senator Martin Conway, who chaired a very important presentation in the AV room on the strategic framework for vision health. This showed we are heading into a major dilemma as regards the number of people who will need support because of failing vision. I refer to the cost that may be incurred by the State and how that may be alleviated, with lives made much better, by implementing a strategy sooner rather than later. I call for debate in the early autumn on the area of the strategic framework for vision health, which would save the State money and do a lot of good for people who have visual impairment.

An Cathaoirleach

Before calling Senator Healy Eames, I welcome a distinguished former Member of the House to the Visitors Gallery, Mary Jackman from Limerick.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

I was struck by the warning the psychiatrist gave that he would write to banks about clients of his who are threatening suicide because of the unrelenting pressure banks are putting on them. As we have learned quite well over the past few months, psychiatrists assess risk. In this House, we have seen how seriously we have taken the risk of suicide. We have taken it so seriously that we believe it warrants abortion. Let us take the threat of suicide very seriously in every context. I ask the Minister for Justice and Equality to apply the same empathy to people under a threat of suicide or at risk of suicide when it comes to the repossession of their family homes, because that, for many, is their complete dignity.

I join my colleagues in congratulating Senator Gilroy on the new book he is launching this evening, A Cry in the Morning. It is always wonderful to write a book. It is not done every day and, therefore, I congratulate the Senator and wish him every success.

The Order Paper suggests the wording for the referendum on the abolition of the Seanad will be very long. Will the Leader confirm what will be on the ballot paper? While an explanation is important, I believe that if the wording is too long, it can serve to confuse and may mean people will decide not to vote at all.

Senator Darragh O'Brien

If everyone who congratulates Senator Gilroy on publishing his book buys one, he might be in the top ten next week. I encourage people to do so.

On many occasions in the House, I have called on the Minister to recommence Garda recruitment. I congratulate the Minister for Justice and Equality in this regard, although I do not often do so. I am sure that having announced the recommencement of the training of recruits in Templemore, he is aware, as I am, that it will take two years for them to pass through the college and be on the beat. I ask for a debate on policing in the autumn, specifically on how we can utilise the Garda Reserve. Those who have already been trained in the Garda Reserve and who are on the streets should be fast-tracked through Templemore so they will not require a full two years training. They do at present. We can be clever about this and save money in addition to ensuring the presence of gardaí on our streets much sooner than in two years time. I welcome the announcement.

A number of Members mentioned the case of the psychiatrist writing to the bank on behalf of a client. Yesterday, the Government, through the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Bill 2013, set aside the Dunne judgment, which protected householders from repossessions. I am not questioning Members' bona fides and I am sure they mean what they say. If they want to come into the House to express their concern over its having come to pass that psychiatrists must write to banks on behalf of their patients expressing concern that those patients could take their own lives because of debt and mortgage arrears, they should vote accordingly. What happened yesterday evening in the House when we actually had the opportunity to stop this Bill? The biggest stick the Government has to beat the banks with is being set aside. While I welcome the fact that the Minister broadly accepted Senator Barrett's amendment, as it is important, the purpose of the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Bill 2013 is to set aside the Dunne judgment. The judgment meant that, in the past two years, there was an extremely low number of repossessions. The Minister saw this as a problem, but I do not. Of the 142,000 mortgages in arrears, our banks have split 142. The Minister could have said he would not introduce the Bill until he saw the colour of the banks' money. He should say he will introduce it in a year if the banks split 14,000 mortgages. I guarantee that if the Minister returns to the House on 15 July next year, the repossession rate will have gone through the roof directly because Members of the Oireachtas have voted for the Bill. Therefore, I do not want to hear Members coming into the House and crying crocodile tears in this regard. We had an opportunity yesterday to stop the legislation but we did not avail of it.

An Cathaoirleach

I congratulate Senator Gilroy on his new book. I would be glad to sign one for him.

Senator John Gilroy

I look forward to it. I acknowledge the kind words of my colleagues and thank them. I invite them all to join me for a cup or tea or a glass of wine later this evening.

Senator Martin Conway

I call on the Central Bank to issue a protocol for dealing with people in mortgage arrears who suffer from depression or mental illness. In recent days and weeks, there has been much talk about suicide and suicidal tendencies in the House. It is only proper, therefore, that we call on the Minister for Finance to come to the House to tell us what protocols, if any, have been put in place by the Central Bank for financial institutions to deal with people in mortgage arrears who are suffering from mental illness. The worrying trend is growing. I noted the comments of some professionals over the weekend. They are also referring to the effects of mental illness and suicidal tendencies on those in mortgage arrears. This is a growing problem and I would like a debate on it.

Senator Catherine Noone

I support Senator Darragh O'Brien and others on the banking issue. I was in the company of a banker yesterday evening who was speaking about the property market generally and who said that, as of September, there would be many more signs going up. This is something that bankers are very much embracing, which is regrettable.

In arguing about the threat of suicide, we must be careful that we do not use it as a new buzzword for pressure. I do not mean this to be disrespectful in any way. A measured debate on this would be useful, but we do not want to be bandying the word "suicide" about as if it were a common everyday occurrence, although it is obvious that people are really suffering because of the current economic pressures.

As the deadly civil war in Syria continues, it is right that more than 100 peacekeepers from Ireland are being sent there to play a sensitive role in keeping the peace in the disputed Golan Heights region. The Irish contingent will be in place on the front line by early September. It is right that Ireland play its part in contributing to peacekeeping alongside other members of the international community. The United Nations requested Irish soldiers following the decision by the Austrian Government to end its military involvement in the region. I pay tribute to the work done by its peacekeepers during the mission. Our deployment of 114 troops has been approved by the Cabinet this week. I wish our peacekeepers in Syria and elsewhere well. They have the support of the House.

Senator David Cullinane

Last February, the Taoiseach offered in the Dáil a very full apology to the survivors of the Magdalen laundries. Everybody in the House congratulated the Taoiseach at the time for finally facing up to the responsibilities of the State in respect of the women involved. The redress scheme was set up. Unfortunately, the religious orders, which were primarily responsible for the inhumane treatment, slave labour and forced incarceration of the women in laundries, are not facing up to their moral, ethical and financial responsibilities. This goes right to the heart of how the institutions and orders see themselves. We know what they stood for in the past and know what they stood over. This goes right to the heart of what they stand for today. If they stand for decency, supporting the women and redeeming themselves for the sins of the past, they must face up to their responsibilities. The Taoiseach has a heavy responsibility to contact the heads of the religious orders and be very assertive about the State's view that they should be forced to face up to their responsibilities. I do not want to be prescriptive about possible options for the Government but, at the very least, the Taoiseach should do as I describe. As long as the religious orders deny their responsibility and culpability in this matter, it will do untold damage to their reputation, the individuals involved and the institutions. They must face up to their responsibilities.

Senator Diarmuid Wilson

I, too, wish Senator Gilroy well on the launch of his book this evening. I am sure there will be a free copy for every one of his colleagues in the House.

Will the Leader ask the Minister for Education and Skills when he intends to sign the commencement order for the Further Education and Training Act?

I join Senator Noone in wishing the 114 troops that will soon be deployed to Syria well in their peacekeeping role.

Senator Susan O'Keeffe

Like many others, I am disappointed, concerned and shocked by the refusal of the religious orders to put their hands in their pockets to contribute to the scheme of compensation for survivors of the Magdalen laundries. I urge them to reconsider their position and respond in a better way to the women whose lives have already been very damaged and who have shown great courage, strength and a capacity to persist in the face of setbacks such as this. It would do everybody a service, including the orders themselves, if they would see their way to a change of heart.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill

Ba mhaith liomsa fosta glacadh leis an deis chun comhghairdeas a dhéanamh leis an Seanadóir John Gilroy as an leabhar atá curtha le chéile aige. I congratulate the Senator on his excellent research and the book he has commissioned. I wish him well tonight and hope the book sells very well. When he is enjoying his royalties, I hope he will not forget the rest of us.

I welcome the report launched this morning by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine, under the stewardship of Deputy Andrew Doyle, on the issue of commonage lands. I hope the Leader will facilitate a debate on this excellent report in the autumn. It would be useful to examine the manner in which commonage lands are managed and the additional payments which might be made available to the farmers throughout the country who work those lands.

I appreciate that our time is restricted in the coming days, but I support Senator Denis O'Donovan's call for a debate on public nursing homes. It is an issue I have raised before and one that is bringing serious problems down the tracks. The bottom line is that community facilities cannot meet the demand. At this time, some 2.4% of people over 65 years of age are in nursing homes, but that is set to increase to 4% or thereabouts in the next ten to 15 years. We simply do not have the facilities to meet the need. There must be a national structure and plan in place to upgrade existing nursing homes, deal with the moratorium on recruitment and look at constructing new community and public nursing homes. Time might not allow for a debate on this issue before the recess, but I appeal to the Leader to accommodate a discussion when the Seanad returns in the autumn.

Senator Maurice Cummins

The acting Leader of the Opposition, Senator Denis O'Donovan, raised the issue of public nursing homes. It is important to note that the problems to which he referred did not arise in the past two years. These facilities have been in decline for many years, but nothing was done about it by the previous Government. Meeting the Health Information and Quality Authority requirements by 2015 will certainly be a challenge. However, the chief inspector of HIQA does have discretion to extend that timeframe where agreement is reached with a provider on a detailed and costed plan to address any deficit. The Department of Health is working closely with the Health Service Executive to develop an overall plan for the Minister's consideration on the future of public nursing home provision. A longer term plan for public residential facilities is expected to be completed by mid-2014, following completion of the ongoing review of the nursing home support scheme. The Department is working closely with the HSE to address these problems. I understand the cost of upgrading public nursing homes to the standards required by HIQA would be in the region of €800 million. As I said, this problem did not suddenly make itself known. The decline has been evident for many years. The Government has every intention of addressing the problems in this area, but improvements cannot be carried out overnight. We must be realistic in terms of what can be achieved and when.

In regard to mental health services provision, I assure Senator Denis O'Donovan that there will be no cuts. The moneys allocated for this purpose have been ring-fenced. Likewise, the additional posts have been advertised and will be filled. Senator Mary Moran also called for a debate on elder care and mental health services provision. Members will agree that we had a very good public consultation process involving all of the parties involved in elder care. That was a good day's work for the Seanad. We intend to undertake a similar process of public consultation on the issue of mental health services. The committee is focusing on that issue.

Senator Mary Moran and others expressed concern at the failure of the religious orders to make a financial contribution to the proposed compensation scheme for former residents of Magdalen laundries. There is no legal obligation on the orders to contribute, but I agree that they have a moral responsibility to do so. As such, I hope they will rethink their decision. Any right-thinking person would consider it reasonable that they make a significant contribution to the fund, given that the facilities in question were managed by communities of the religious orders in question.

Senator David Norris raised the issue of mobile phone usage in the Chamber. If he should choose to raise that matter with the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, he can be assured of my support. The use of mobile phones in this Chamber is simply not acceptable. It is not appropriate to have them ringing when the Order of Business or any other business is taking place. It is not correct that Members should be texting, twittering or anything else while colleagues are trying to conduct business. There is plenty of space outside if Members wish to use their devices. As I said, I will support Senator David Norris if he raises the matter at the next meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

Senator David Norris

I thank the Leader.

Senator Maurice Cummins

I will get back to the Senator on the tests required for buses, both private and public.

Senators Labhrás Ó Murchú, Paul Coghlan and Trevor Ó Clochartaigh referred to the national monument on Moore Street and complimented the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, on his actions yesterday. I will invite the Minister to come to the House early in the autumn session to discuss the matter.

Senators Aideen Hayden and Sean D. Barrett raised matters relating to the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Bill 2013 which we debated in the House yesterday, including the rights of tenants where landlords became insolvent. The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, was very conciliatory on the issue and has undertaken to get back to us. He is fully supportive of the measures outlined. I take on board Senator Hayden's point on the health and safety issues that arise where children are living in apartment blocks. I will ask the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, if there is any plan to retrofit such properties and if she will come to the House to outline her views on the matter.

Senator Terry Leyden complimented the success of The Gathering and once again sang the praises of Castlecoote. I note his comments on the law relating to children in hotels after 9 p.m., a law that was introduced by his party in government some years ago.

With regard to the issue raised by Senator Sean D. Barrett, I have addressed the matter of the exchanges between the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, and Members during the debate on the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Bill yesterday evening.

Senator Lorraine Higgins and others asked about protecting people against harassment by banks and the current law in that regard which they say should be implemented and enforced more rigorously than is the case.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh raised the issue of Pearse's Cottage in Rosmuc. I am sure it will be mentioned when we have the debate in the House with the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan. The Senator also complimented Senator Martin Conway on the document dealing with the issue of people with a visual impairment. I, too, compliment Senator Martin Conway in that regard.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames raised the issue of people at risk of suicide. We have had a number of debates in the House on that issue and will continue to debate it. With regard to the motion on the Bill dealing with the abolition of the Seanad, the Senator can address the issue with the Minister when he comes to the House - from 7 p.m until 10 p.m.

Senator Darragh O'Brien called for a debate on policing. I also note the points he made on the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Bill.

Senator Martin Conway also raised the issue of mortgage arrears and mentioned people in difficulty and the threat to mental health. Senator Catherine Noone raised the same issue. As I stated last week, the Minister for Finance indicated that representatives of the Central Bank should be invited to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform to be quizzed on the code of conduct for mortgage arrears. I hope this will happen.

I join Senator Catherine Noone in complimenting and wishing safety and every success to the Irish peacekeepers who are taking up duty in Syria and the Middle East.

I will find out for Senator Diarmuid Wilson when the commencement order for the Education and Training Bill will issue and get back to him with that information.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill complimented the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine on its report on commonage lands. I will try to arrange for the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine to come to the House early in the autumn and we can debate the issue in the context of a debate on agriculture.

Order of Business agreed to.

Sitting suspended at 11.35 a.m. and resumed at 11.50 a.m.