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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 11 Dec 2013

Vol. 228 No. 5

Adjournment Matters

Leader Programmes Expenditure

Cuirim céad fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit agus táim an-bhuíoch dó as teacht isteach leis an cheist seo a thógáil.

Bíonn go leor cainte faoin gclár Leader agus is maith ann an clár sin. Le roinnt mhaith blianta anuas, tá pobail tuaithe ar fud na hÉireann tar éis an-tairbhe a bhaint as an gclár ó thaobh tograí pobail, tograí gnó agus ó thaobh ceantair tuaithe a chur chun cinn. Bhí cuid mhaith deacrachtaí i mbliana agus anuraidh leis an gclár Leader ó thaobh cúrsaí riarachán de agus ó thaobh cuid de na comhlachtaí de. Bhain cuid de na deacrachtaí sna ceantair Ghaeltachta, mar shampla, le teip an chomhlachta MFG agus bhí muid gan comhlacht ar feadh tamaill fada agus bhíomar ag braith ar chomhlachtaí eile ó shin leis na scéimeanna a chur i bhfeidhm sna ceantair Ghaeltachta.

Tá riar mhaith daoine tar éis teacht chugam mar bhí cur chuige cineál "stop-start" ann i mbliana. Rinneadh athbhreithniú roinnt uaireanta ar an chaoi a bhfuil an t-airgead á chaitheamh, rud a chiallaigh go raibh athrú ar an mhéid airgid a bhí ceadaithe do chuid de na comhlachtaí. Tá an clár ar bun le sé nó seacht mbliana agus ag tús aimsire dúradh leis na comhlachtaí cé mhéid airgid a bheadh i ndán dóibh, ach athraíodh na figiúirí sin i mbliana. Rinne an Roinn athbhreithniú agus tharraing an Roinn siar airgead ó chuid de na comhlachtaí. Bhain cuid de na comhlachtaí sin le ceantair i nGaillimh, comhlacht FORUM Connemara, comhlacht GRD, Galway Rural Development, Comhar na nOileán Teoranta agus an comhlacht a bhí mar MFG, rud a d'fhág go raibh muid as póca sna ceantair sin agus go raibh níos lú airgid againn ná mar a bhí geallta dúinn.

Cuid de na fadhbanna a bhain leis an athbhreithniú ná go raibh deacrachtaí ó thaobh airgid sna comhlachtaí agus go háirithe na daoine a bhí ag plé le tograí sna pobail. Is cosúil go bhfuil sin ag tarlú arís le cúpla seachtain anuas. Mar shampla, bhí cuid de na dreamanna a tháinig i dteangbháil liomsa ag rá go bhfuil conradh acu le comhlacht áirithe atá ag plé le Leader, go bhfuil dhá thrian den togra atá ar bun acu críochnaithe, go bhfuil an t-airgead íoctha leo ar an chéad dá thrian agus gur íoc siad féin amach an trian deireanach. Deir siad go bhfuair siad iasacht ón gcomhar creidmheasa ar na mílte ach gur tháining an comhlacht ar ais chucu ansin ag rá nach bhfuil an Roinn sásta an t-airgead deireanach a thabhairt dóibh. Tá siad i bponc mar gheall ar sin.

Dúirt dreamanna eile go bhfuil conradh sínithe acu agus go bhfuil an togra ceadaithe tríd an bpróiseas ar fad, tríd an Roinn agus tríd an comhlacht. Ansin, le seachtain nó dhó anuas tá an Roinn tar éis diúltú cead a thabhairt dóibh dul ar aghaidh leis an togra.

Tá sin an mhí-shásúil do na comhlachtaí agus na heagrais pobail atá i gceist. Teastaíonn uainn go mbeadh an t-airgead seo ag dul amach go dtí na pobail. Tá sé fíor thábhachtach go dtarraingeoidh muid anuas chuile phingin gur féidir linn ón Aontas Eorpach faoin gclár Leader le caitheamh sna ceantair phobail, go háirithe in am mar seo, am an ghátair.

Táim ag súil go mb'fhéidir go mbeidh an tAire Stáit in ann soiléiriú a thabhairt dom ar chéard atá ag tarlú i ndáiríre leis an gclár Leader. Cén fáth an bhfuil an cur chuige seo ag tosú agus ag stopadh arís agus arís eile? Cén fáth an bhfuil na figiúirí ag athrú an t-am ar fad agus cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó cinnteacht ag na daoine atá sa phobal atá ag iarraidh tograí a chur chun cinn ó thaobh an mbeidh airgead acu nó nach mbeidh? An bhfuil an Rialtas in ann geallúint a thabhairt maidir le duine ar bith a fuair conradh agus a shínigh conradh agus a chaith airgead, go bhfaighidh siad an íocaíocht ón Roinn an taobh seo den Nollaig?

Gabhaim leithscéil faoi nach bhfuil an freagra scríofa as Gaeilge, ach déanfaidh mé mo dhícheall aistriúchán a dhéanamh ar na focail nach bhfuil ró-dhian orm.

In line with the 'bottom-up' approach to rural development it is a matter for each comhlacht forbartha áitiúil na projects ar a gcaithfidh siad airgead a roghnú. In May 2013 LDCs were awarded revised allocations under the Leader elements of the rural development programme. Two main issues are relevant in understanding the rationale nó an fáth gur tharla sé seo. Ar an gcéad dul síos, sa bhliain 2012 iarradh ar ghach comhlacht forbhartha áitiúil a gcuid airgid a chaitheamh, dá dteastódh sin uathu, on first-come first served basis. Bhí an seans céanna ag gach comhlacht an méid airgid a theastaigh uathu a chur isteach i dtogra áitiúil.

The second issue relates to the change in co-financing rates. During 2011, the European Commission approved a change in the maximum co-financing rate, from 55% to 85%, for the Leader elements of Ireland's RDP, but only for expenditure incurred in 2012 and 2013. Séard a thit amach ansin ná go raibh laghdú ar an méid airgid sa chlár - laghdú ó €427 milliún go dtí €370 milliún, ísliú de 13%. An toradh a bhí ar seo ná go raibh laghdú ar an mhéid airgid a fuair Galway Rural Development agus FORUM Connemara. The redistribution of available funding was conducted in as fair and equitable a manner as was possible, with many comhlachtaí forbartha áitiúla experiencing an ísliú freisin. The allocations were adjusted to ensure that all comhlachtaí forbartha áitiúla received at least 80% of the allocation bunúsach a bhí acu. Had this not been done, d'fhéadfadh a lán comhlachtaí, including Galway Rural Development and FORUM Connemara, ciorruithe níos mó a fhulaingt in the context the allocations were calculated sa tslí is féaráilte gurbh fhéidir.

Tugadh €22 milliún do Galway Rural Development, FORUM Connemara agus Gaeltacht na Gaillimhe. Chomh maith le sin, fuair Comhar na nOileán €4.7 milliún do na hoileáin, a major portion of which was allocated to Galway. Seo airgead mór d'aon áit nó aon chuid den tír. Maidir leis na Gaeltacht areas, tá laghdú freisin sa mhéid airgid atá ar fáil dóibh. When MFG (Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta) went into liquidation in 2011, bhí €3. 371 milliún caite aige ar an programme bunúsach a bhí aige. In May 2013, €6 million for the Gaeltacht areas was awarded to the contiguous local development companies. Of this, fuair Gaillimh €2.1 de. Due consideration will of course be given to all areas, including the Gaeltacht, más rud é go mbeidh aon airgead breise le caitheamh.

Leader programme spending is subject to continual monitoring. Tá an Roinn ag faire ar seo i gcónaí agus beidh sé ag déanamh formal review of the commitments and expenditure levels ag deireadh na bliana seo. Ina dhiaidh sin, beidh an tAire in ann féachaint arís an bhfuil aon airgead breise le tabhairt amach. Sa chomhthéacs sin, tá sé tábhachtach a thuiscint it is a matter for each individual comhlacht forbartha áitiúil to decide cé acu project a theastaíonn uaidh airgead a chaitheamh air, má bhíonn an t-airgead breise sin aige.

Tá mé buíoch don Aire Stáit as a fhreagra agus as an Ghaeilge a úsáid ar an ócáid seo. Is freagra ginearálta go leor é ar bhealach. Léiríonn sé dom nach bhfuil cothrom na féinne faighte ag Gaillimh ná ag na Gaeltachtaí mar bhí €27.5 milliún le fáil ag Gaillimh ag tús an chláir agus ní bheidh faighte ag an gclár ar deireadh ach €22 milliún. Sin gearradh siar de €5.5 milliún. Ó thaobh na ceantair Ghaeltachta de, bhí suas le €17 milliún le bheith caite iontu, ach ní bheidh caite ach €9.3 milliún. Fágann sin go bhfuil muid €8.9 milliún nó beagnach €9 milliún gann ar an mhéid a bhí geallta dóibh, ach sin scéal do lá eile.

Baineann an bhunceist a bhí agam, agus b'fhéidir go mbeidh an tAire Stáit in ann fiosrú a dhéanamh faoi seo, leis an dream a bhfuil na tograí acu faoi láthair nach bhfuair íocaíocht le déanaí, dream a bhfuil airgead le h-íoc leo. An mbeidh an tAire stáit in ann fiosrú a dhéanamh faoi sin le féachaint cén fáth an bhfuil sin ag tarlú agus an féidir a dheimhniú dúinn go n-íocfar iad roimh an Nollaig. Seo dream a bhfuil conarthaí acu, bona fide. Chuaigh siad tríd an bpróiseas le cead a fháil, ceadaíodh an t-airgead dóibh, ach tá siad ag seasamh ansin anois le fiacha ar a gcuid lámha mar gheall nach bhfuil an Roinn ag íoc na gcomhlachtaí.

Geallaim don Seanadóir go gcuirfidh mé na tuairimí atá nochtaithe aige agus an méid adúirt sé faoi bhráid an Aire láithreach. Más rud é gur mhaith leis an Seanadóir ainmneacha na gcomhlachtaí forbartha i gceist a thabhairt dom, cuirfidh mé isteach ceist phráinneach chuig an Aire chun freagra a fháil dó.

Go raibh míle maith agat.

Non-Consultant Hospital Doctors Recruitment

I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House to take this matter. This matter relates to the junior doctor issue, a matter I have been dealing with over the past two years. I am very concerned about the issue because of the 4,900 doctors employed in the health service, some 2,000 are on six-month only contracts. I eventually extracted this information from the HSE after approximately 18 months of seeking it.

Let me explain my concern. Junior doctors will start their job on 7 January and by 7 February they will start sitting interviews for jobs starting on 7 July. This is an unsatisfactory situation. There is no other employment system with a structure like this. This system causes uncertainty. We have a large number of qualified doctors leaving this country. The cost of producing 600 medical graduates per annum is approximately €90 million, because they are trained over a five year programme. Based on my figures and analysis, up to two-thirds of these graduates leave the country within 12 months of finishing. Many junior doctors are leaving once they have completed their intern year. In other words, €60 million of the investment made by taxpayers was spent on these doctors who have left.

I suggest we need to restructure the system. Will the Minister of State provide the up to date position in regard to the restructuring that was to occur? I understand the president of DCU was appointed to head up the group on this. What progress has been made and when are we likely to see an initial report and when are we likely to see changes in the contracts being offered to the junior doctors we are employing in our hospitals?

I thank Senator Burke for raising this important matter. Non-consultant hospital doctors, NCHDs, play a fundamental role in the provision of services in our hospitals. The Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, is committed to improving their working conditions and to ensuring they can have suitable career pathways and job security within the Irish health system.

Approximately 80% of the 4,900 NCHDs working in the public system hold structured training posts while 20% hold service posts. At present the duration of the NCHDs' employment contracts are determined by the nature of their training arrangements, the location of their employment, whether they rotate between various sites and who their employers are.

The Minister wishes to see arrangements developed which will ensure NCHDs in training programmes are provided with certainty at the beginning of training schemes regarding the location of rotations over the course of a scheme and that those in non-training posts are given contracts of a duration that make their employment sustainable and attractive in the longer term. The establishment of the hospital groups framework will facilitate the development of these contracts. The fact that a significant proportion of our NCHDs are on six-month contracts brings a level of uncertainty to the filling of posts each January and July when the cyclical rotations occur. The Minister wants to end this uncertainty by ensuring our NCHDs want to work and develop their careers here and he is satisfied that the range of initiatives in train will achieve this.

In July this year the Minister set up a working group chaired by Professor Brian MacCraith, president of DCU, to carry out a strategic review of the medical training and career structure of NCHDs. The terms of reference of the review include making recommendations aimed at improving graduate retention in the public health system, planning for future service needs, and realising maximum benefit from investment in medical education and training. The Minister wishes to acknowledge the focus that Professor MacCraith and the members of this group have brought to their work within a tight timeframe.

During October and November the working group met a number of key stakeholders, including trainee doctors, the Medical Council, postgraduate training bodies and clinicians in senior management in the HSE. The group submitted its interim report to the Minister last week and he is very pleased with the findings, which include a number of practical recommendations that can be progressed quite quickly. The interim report will be published shortly. The group is now moving to stage two of its work with a view to submitting its final report to the Minister by June 2014.

The agreement reached between the HSE and the Irish Medical Organisation at the Labour Relations Court in October on addressing working hours and achieving compliance with the European working time directive specifically encompassed NCHD recruitment and retention. It reaffirms the commitment in the Haddington Road agreement to reviewing the NCHD career structure with the aim of further developing career and training pathways for all grades of NCHD to consultant and specialist level. It also identifies successful graduate recruitment and retention as key to achieving compliance with the working time directive. The Minister has identified the attainment of compliance as a key priority for HSE management. Reducing the hours many NCHDs are required to work will make working here more attractive. The Minister is determined that as part of the overall health reform programme we build a public health system that values the contribution and commitment of trainee doctors and we want to ensure this very talented workforce are offered a rewarding and satisfying career here in Ireland.

I thank the Minister of State for the reply and I appreciate the work being done by the Minister in the Department. I am a little concerned the final report will not be published until June 2014 and that an interim report will be published.

Nothing really seems to have changed for 2014. While I accept that implementing the working time directive is necessary and fundamental for the health service, we are running into a problem whereby we will not have junior doctors coming from abroad over the next 12 months to two years. There is clear evidence that the number is decreasing. By the end of the year the cost of those employed under agency contracts as opposed to HSE contracts will be approximately €50 million. Waiting until June for a final report will not deal with the issues for 2014. The information I have received is that there are concerns about posts being filled in January. I ask the Minister of State to convey this to the Department. I suggest the final report be brought forward from June. It will be too late then because it will not have dealt with those starting in July 2014 who will be offered contracts in April or May. The report should be published not later than 31 March. I am genuinely concerned that we will run into major problems.

I assure Senator Burke that I will bring his views and concerns to the attention of the Minister immediately. Perhaps I did not make clear that the interim report will be published shortly. The Minister is very pleased with the findings, which include a number of practical recommendations that can be progressed quite quickly. I hope some progress will be made.

Departmental Correspondence

I have tabled this Adjournment matter as a result of the public highlighting of the fact that relatives of deceased people are receiving correspondence from the Department of Social Protection. I have had several telephone conversations and items of electronic correspondence with the Department since tabling the matter to establish why I did so. The reason is quite simple. I have been contacted by a number of concerned citizens who have received correspondence from the Department of Social Protection about the qualification for entitlements of deceased relatives one or two years after they had passed away. Several days ago on Clare FM, the local radio station, I heard a person whose son, who had Down's syndrome, had passed away 11 years ago. The Department sent correspondence addressed to the deceased person seeking the return of a free travel pass because disability payments had ceased. It upset many people in the constituency and highlighted the fact that computer-generated correspondence is being sent to people who have been deceased for many years.

I seek the introduction of protocols in the Department of Social Protection to ensure no correspondence will issue to somebody who has passed away. I suggest that this can be achieved if those responsible for issuing death certificates collect PPS numbers and are responsible for notifying all relevant Departments, the HSE and the Revenue Commissioners so that deceased persons do not receive any further correspondence from the State. This is a moral responsibility, because it causes significant distress to the families when they receive such correspondence. I picked the Department of Social Protection because hundreds of thousands of people are in receipt of payments from the Department and it was the Department highlighted in the recent Clare FM exposé.

I thank Senator Conway for bringing this matter to the attention of the House and the Minister for Social Protection, who fully acknowledges the impact the receipt of such correspondence can have on the deceased person's relatives, and apologises unreservedly for any distress that this has caused.

These situations, although rare, are deeply regrettable and at all times the Department of Social Protection strives to ensure that this does not happen. However, there is always a risk that, inadvertently, correspondence will issue to a deceased person, given the very large numbers of customers and complex payment systems needed to service their requirements. Where this arises and where it is brought to the Department's attention and there is sufficient detail, the Department will immediately apologise. Indeed, the Minister for Social Protection has also written personally to the deceased person's relatives to explain the circumstances and apologise for any distress which might have been caused.

Given the scale of the Department's operations it is impossible to safeguard fully against this type of occurrence. In 2012 for instance, 2.3 million people benefited from payments from the Department through 70 separate income support schemes. There were 2 million applications for benefits processed, with 87 million payments being made. The Department also undertook 1 million control reviews of entitlement. All of this work involves direct communication with customers. There is a risk that in some instances, the Department is not fully up to date with an individual's status and the customer will be deceased. For example, some of the routine review and control work which is undertaken, particularly on schemes for older people, actually requires that customers are written to in order to ensure that they have all their entitlements. Such exercises are also designed to establish that the customer is still alive and to try to prevent situations of continuing encashment of payments after the customer, who had legitimate entitlement, is deceased.

I understand that the particular project to which the Senator refers was being carried out in preparation for the transition to the new free travel variant of the public services card. It entailed reviewing around 8,500 cases where it appeared from the Department's systems that the free travel entitlement for certain clients had ceased. That is to say, on checking all available Department payment systems, the customer was not on a qualifying scheme and had not an underlying entitlement to free travel. In this specific exercise, it appears that correspondence was sent in error in respect of a very small number of deceased persons.

The Department of Social Protection now relies heavily on the register of deaths in the General Register Office. However, the computerised register of deaths only came into existence in 2003. The data is downloaded every night from the GRO and then runs against their systems. Where the system finds a direct match the payment systems are updated accordingly. Partial matches are referred to the data quality management unit in the Department for further follow up. I know the Senator will appreciate that this follow-up work, of its nature, is difficult and can also be very sensitive.

However, it is important to note that in the following circumstances, and while accessing the GRO information, the Department might still not be aware that a customer is deceased if the death occurred prior to computerisation of the register in 2003, or had not been registered, or had occurred abroad, including in Northern Ireland. In addition, the system would not pick up that death had occurred if incorrect information was provided at the time of registration of the death, or if forenames or surnames were different in format to that used by the customer when applying to the Department under a particular scheme.

Finally, the Minister wants me to assure the Senator that the Department does all that is reasonably possible to try to minimise such occurrences and it is regrettable when they do occur. Protocols are continually being reviewed to ensure that such unfortunate instances are minimised. Again, the Minister apologises most sincerely for any distress which such occurrences have caused to the relatives.

I thank the Minister of State for his response. I acknowledge that the Minister is sincere in her endeavours in this area. The point of this matter on the Adjournment is that decisive action is required at the time of the issue of a death certificate. There needs to be very strict protocols so that as soon as a death certificate is issued, the Department of Social Protection is informed immediately and all sections are made aware of the deceased person's name, address and PPS, in order that no further correspondence be issued to the person.

I do not think anybody has a problem with correspondence that would issue within a week of somebody passing away, or even a month. However, it is understandable that people would be distressed to receive correspondence 11 years after somebody's death from a Department about an entitlement. I know that the Minister is not directly responsible for this, but there is a moral requirement on everybody, particularly those in Departments who issue correspondence, such as the Department of Social Protection, the Department of Justice and Equality and the Revenue Commissioners, to ensure that we are not writing to people who are deceased. I again thank the Minister of State for his reply and I know he is genuine about this and understands why I tabled this Adjournment matter.

I thank the Senator for raising the issue. I appreciate everything he said and I will bring his comments directly to the attention of the Minister. I apologise once again on behalf of the Minister and the Department for what happened. We will ensure that every effort will be made so that it never happens again.

The Seanad adjourned at 8.35 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 12 December 2013.
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