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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 16 Jan 2014

Valuation (Amendment) Bill 2013: Second Stage

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, and thank her for coming to the House to take the Valuation (Amendment) Bill 2013. It is a small but important Bill and I am grateful to my colleagues for giving me permission to table it on Private Members' time.

There is general recognition across all sides of this House that one of the most attractive elements of Irish community, commercial and social life is the fact that we have managed to retain vibrant and attractive town centres. Towns and villages have suffered the negative impact of the downturn of recent years but town centre businesses have worked hard to stay in operation through a difficult climate. However, in addition to dealing with the effects of the recession, traders are increasingly being hit by the triple blow of reduced consumer spending, the advent of local authority imposed street parking charges and new out-of-town retailers offering large free surface car parks. The competitiveness and openness of the Irish retail sector has allowed for a massive increase in retailers starting or expanding operations here. For example, the two German discounters have attained a significant market share over a relatively short period. We have also seen the development of retail parks and large retail supermarkets located on edge-of-town and out-of-town sites.

Competition is good for the economy and for consumer choice because it allows consumers to shop around for the best value and make the family budget stretch further. Nothing in this Bill seeks to impact negatively on competition, choice or services for consumers nor does it propose to impose new costs on consumers. However, it is critical that we examine the way in which the development of new out-of-town retail operations with large surface car parks are treated from a rates perspective in the light of the social and economic costs they impose on town centres. Under current Irish law, there is a glaring inequity in the governance of commercial rates which negatively impacts on the vitality and viability of towns. If left unchecked, this inequity will contribute to the erosion of the social, economic and community functions performed by town centres and increase dereliction, urban decay and the associated costs they impose on the wider society.

Most major town centres are subject to local authority imposed parking charges. Income from parking charges has become a significant source of revenue for local authorities, accounting for 28% of all income received by councils annually. Parking regimes are enforced rigorously through parking fines and clamping. At the same time, however, small retail businesses in urban areas contribute significant rates and other municipal charges such as licence fees for street furniture to local authorities. The advent of paid parking in town centres has also forced retailers with parking spaces in these areas to impose charges for parking on their properties to prevent people from avoiding parking charges by occupying the spaces. In simple terms, it costs money to park in town centres and local authorities are significant beneficiaries. By contrast, there has been major expansion in edge-of-town and out-of-town shopping facilities which depend almost entirely on car-driving customers. These new retail outlets come in various forms. Some are large shopping centres, almost always with a major grocer as anchor tenant. Others are smaller discount retailers which operate as a single unit or as part of a neighbourhood centre. Regardless of their form, they typically share two features. The first is that they are located outside the town centre and the second is that they offer free parking to their customers.

Planning and transport policy affords priority to town centres rather than out-of-town retailers on the grounds of sustainability and the social and economic functions of town centres. However, the legal basis for the levying of rates by local authorities goes in the opposite direction. If anything, the current structure introduces a disincentive for out-of-town retailers to charge customers for parking. Under the current law, a retailer which does not charge for parking is not liable for rates in respect of car parking spaces. Typically it is only where retailers charge for parking that parking spaces are subject to rates. The current system makes no sense in terms of consistency between planning and transport policy. The existence of free car parking and out-of-town retail outlets acts to draw car-based customers away from town centres, where they would be obliged to pay for parking and could face fines or clamping if they stay beyond the time for which they have paid. A decline in the level of trading impacts on the vitality and viability of town centres and reduced customer footfall in town centres impacts on the viability of retailers, particularly those trading in convenience goods which depend on higher numbers of low-spending customers. Fewer viable retailers mean fewer viable town centres, increased dereliction and urban decay which, in turn, create additional societal costs that are often borne by the Government and the taxpayer. The reduced footfall also impacts negatively on the local authority revenue stream through reduced parking receipts and, ultimately, lower yields from rates because of failing town centre businesses. This decrease in revenue is not replaced by alternative revenue streams from out-of-town centres. Ultimately, the current situation will lead to enhanced market power for out-of-town and edge-of-town retailers, reduced choice and opportunity for customers and a deterioration in retail diversity. It is also the case that many out-of-town retailers operate low-cost and low-employment models which militate against new employment creation.

To take an example, retailer A is a grocer based in a 7,000 sq. m store in the main street of a town centre and employs 30 full-time staff. The local council has introduced paid parking in the town, with the consequence that retailer A charges for parking in the small 50 space carpark attached to the store. Consequently, retailer A pays rates to the local authority on the shop and the car park. In addition, customers must pay for their parking, either to the local authority or to retailer A. Trade has suffered as a consequence of the downturn and the arrival of the new out-of-town retailer B which offers free car parking. Retailer B is a branch of an international chain which operates out of a 10,000 sq. m store and employs 50 full-time staff. The store is located on the outskirts of the town centre on one of the main entrance routes to the town. Retailer B does not charge customers for the large surface car park attached to the store, which means it pays rates on the store but not on the carpark.

Several measures could be taken to address the challenges that free out-of-town parking provision create for the vitality and viability of town centres. A step that should be taken immediately is to address the inequity that commercial rates are not charged for the provision of out-of-town retail carparks. The current legal provision contains no incentive for operators of out-of-town retail centres to impose charges on their customers and acts as a disincentive from applying charges. As such, it is counter-productive and inconsistent with Government planning and transport policy. To address this inequity, the Bill proposes to amend section 51 of the Valuation Act 2001 to stipulate that the space reserved for car parking associated or attached to a retail outlet should be separately valued in the calculation of the rateable valuation of a property. The rateable valuation should be based on the revenue that would be generated from the space if it was charged at the current value of street parking rates applied by the local authority in the adjacent urban area. Unless the retail centre operator charges a higher hourly rate, some mechanism could be inserted to ensure free parking spaces attract a higher rateable valuation. In addition, a measure would be required to ensure this new valuation is imposed with effect from 12 months after the date of enactment and with a facility for self-assessment to expedite the process of valuation.

The effect of this amendment would be to generate additional income for local authorities from the application of rates to car parking spaces and encourage operators of retail centres with free parking to make some contribution to the broader social and economic costs of using their parking facilities. It would impose a cost on a facility which, while currently free of charge, generates overall societal costs.

Section 2(1) amends section 51 of the Valuation Act by providing that where a property is a shop or retail outlet, the parking spaces for customers should be taken into account in assessing the rateable valuation. Section 2(2) introduces a mechanism to calculate the rateable valuation by reference to either the amount charged by the centre operator for parking spaces or, where no charge is imposed, the equivalent parking charges imposed by the local authority for car parking within the local authority area, whichever is the highest. This imposes a de facto valuation of the space involved with no less a cost than that charged for town centre parking. While the operator may absorb this cost, it will be a factor in the rates that are paid for car parking spaces, in other words, the commercial value of parking spaces will be calculated at a reasonable rate.

Section 3(3) provides for the valuation of properties covered by the Act within 12 months of its commencement.

This is a fair, proportionate and necessary measure which will address an inequity in the current legal position and ensure greater coherence and consistency in transport and planning policy. It will also introduce certainty to an area that is currently confusing and unclear and do so in a way that delivers broader societal benefits. Local authorities will welcome the additional revenue generated by the measure and ensure the additional funds generated are used to improve town centres as places to visit, frequent and shop. I commend the Bill to the House.

I take pleasure in seconding the Bill and compliment my colleague, Senator Paul Coghlan, on bringing it before the House. Too often, we hear Senators complain about the decline of town centres and cities and suggest means of revitalising them. This small Bill could go some way towards addressing the current imbalance. A glaring inequity in the law governing the imposition of commercial rates is negatively impacting on the vitality and viability of towns and cities and conferring a competitive advantage on out-of-town retailers. If left unchecked, this inequity will continue to contribute to the erosion of the social, economic and community functions performed by town centres and the creation of dereliction, urban decay and the associated costs this imposes on wider society.

Most major town centres have faced the imposition by local authorities of paid parking. Parking income has become a significant part of local authority budgets. The advent of paid parking in town centres has also forced retailers with parking spaces in these areas to impose charges for parking on their properties as a means of preventing people from occupying car park spaces to avoid town centre parking charges.

By contrast, we have experienced a major expansion in edge-of-town and out-of-town shopping facilities, which depend almost entirely on car-based customers. Planning and transport policies afford priority to the town centres rather than out-of-town retailing on the grounds of sustainability and the social and economic functions of town centres. However, the legal basis for the levying of rates by local authorities runs in the opposite direction. Under current legislation, a retailer who does not charge for parking is not liable for rates in respect of car parking spaces. Typically, it is only where a retailer charges for parking that parking spaces are subject to rates.

The existence of free parking in out-of-town retail outlets acts as a distinct draw away from town centres for car-based customers because they would be otherwise obliged to pay for car parking and face fines or, in some cases, clamping if they exceed the paid period. The consequent impacts are self-evident. A decline in the level of trade impacts on the viability and vitality of town centres. Reduced customer footfall in town centres impacts on the viability of retailers, particularly those which are trading in convenience goods and depend on the higher levels of low-spend customers for continued viability. Fewer viable retailers means fewer viable town centres. The increased dereliction and urban decay which may result bring with them additional societal costs that are often borne by government and taxpayers.

Reduced footfall also impacts negatively on local authority revenue streams through reduced parking receipts and, ultimately, reduced rate yields from town centre businesses that fail. This reduction in revenue is not replaced by alternative revenue streams from out-of-town retail centres. Ultimately, the current position leads to the conferral of enhanced power on the out-of-town and edge-of-town retailers, reduced choice and opportunity for consumers and a deterioration in retail diversity. It is also the case that many out-of-town retailers operate low-cost and low-employment models such that the current position militates against the creation of new employment.

I commend the Bill to the House. Senator Paul Coghlan has given us much food for thought. The Valuation Bill is due to be brought before the House shortly. This legislation could form part of our considerations of how to assist town centres that have been hit hard by the recession in recent years to remain viable and add vitality to them.

I thank Senators Paul Coghlan, Maurice Cummins and Michael Mullins for proposing the Bill. The Fianna Fáil Party will support the passage of the Bill on Second Stage and I hope the Government will do likewise. I ask Government Senators to note my party's view that this is a positive Bill which can go places. While we have a number of issues with the legislation, we are not seeking to oppose it on technical grounds. I am not suggesting the Government side in the House would adopt such an approach but the Cabinet often issues orders in the case of Private Members' Bills.

This is worthwhile legislation and Senator Paul Coghlan will be pleased to note that it chimes well with Fianna Fáil policy, as outlined in a recently published policy document. I am not suggesting he knew anything about the document.

I understood that was the case from communications via a back channel.

We are delighted the Senator introduced the legislation and are glad to support it.

Out-of-town shopping centres offer significant advantages and people like to visit them. The issue is one of providing balance and ensuring town centres are not placed at a disadvantage. This Bill could play an important role in maintaining activity in town centres. I recall a couple of visits to Albany in New York. It was frightening to note that the centre of the city had nothing to offer that would attract retail customers, although it had a fabulous shopping centre on its outskirts. Many cities in the United States have taken a similar route and it would be a shame if this were to occur in this country. This trend is already evident, however, particularly in locations where there are out-of-town shopping centres. Many town centres in counties Meath, Kildare and Louth are under pressure as a result of shopping centres located outside the town. Out-of-town shopping centres, including on the outskirts of Dublin, are doing well.

Further down the country, I have also noticed that some towns are doing quite well, including, from appearances, Ballina. I visited Buncrana as long ago as the Seanad election and I thought those two towns were quite vibrant, probably because they are quite far away from everywhere else and there is no alternative but to shop in them. Consequently, they have quite nice and vibrant town centres. While I am sure the aforementioned two places have their own problems, they did not appear to be as acute as some of the town centres I have seen, which are almost at risk of closing down. In 2013 Fianna Fáil published a policy document called Streets Ahead in which we outlined a range of measures, of which this is an important part. It would help town centres to deal with the problems of rising vacancy rates and abandoned shop-fronts, which would bring greater footfall into the centres.

While I am not trying to nitpick or anything like that, I will raise a couple of small issues I have with the Bill. It applies to shops or retail outlets, but am I to believe it does not apply to suburban restaurants or pubs? If that is the intent of the Bill, then so be it. When Senator Paul Coghlan is concluding, he should indicate whether there is a minimum size to which this would not apply. I am thinking of a local Centra shop with four or five car-parking spaces. He will deal with such issues in his-----

Such details can be dealt with on Committee Stage in any event.

Yes, exactly. In referring to such places, I do not believe they pose a direct threat to town centres and in fact are necessary. However, I understand the Senator has dealt with this issue and I will accept that.

I ask the Minister of State to comment on the Valuation (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012. While Senator Maurice Cummins stated that it was due shortly, that Bill was before the House on Second Stage in autumn 2012 or perhaps even earlier. Members on this side, as well as some on the Government side, raised serious constitutional issues about that Bill and, as a result, it has not been heard from since. In fact, it arose during the course of the Seanad referendum campaign as an example in which the Seanad had done its job - that is, not to knock down a Bill but to point out flaws and to get them corrected. I presume this is the process that is going on. The Minister of State might provide Members with an update in this regard, because there are a range of issues pertaining to valuations that must be dealt with and are being dealt with in the aforementioned Bill, together with the important, albeit radical, point being made by Senator Coghlan. Were this Bill to be enacted, as I hope, it would make a big change. It would be big and would be really helpful. While it would unquestionably disadvantage some people, it would help the small local retailer and town centres.

I reiterate that I wish to know when the aforementioned Valuation (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012 will return to the House. During the Seanad referendum campaign, someone by coincidence asked the Taoiseach in the Dáil about the status of the Valuation (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, and he replied that the Bill was in the Seanad, which was dealing with it, and that, as the questioner was aware, they would take their time. The Taoiseach did not appear to be aware that the Seanad had raised serious constitutional issues. As far as I can ascertain, Members of this House were being blamed at that time for delaying the Bill when, in fact, I believe it is somewhere in the Government machinery. However, that Bill is really urgent and includes a range of provisions that will help. While I believe it could go further and other changes could be made, people are waiting for the Valuation (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012 to come through. They are waiting for the radical reform of the rates system that they were promised and I certainly seek comment on that issue. I congratulate Senator Paul Coghlan on his introduction of this Bill. It is very useful and helpful and Fianna Fáil Members hope it will be enacted. I look forward to hearing Senator Paul Coghlan's conclusions, when he will address a couple of minor points I have raised.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, and wish her all the best for 2014. I also commend Senator Paul Coghlan and his colleagues, Senators Cummins and Mullins, for bringing forward this legislation. It is an important and topical issue that surfaces regularly. A number of months ago my colleagues in the Labour Party group, including Senator John Whelan and me, together with many others, tabled a full Private Members' motion on this very issue of rural retailing, which the Minister of State took at the time. During the discussion, she indicated to Members that an interdepartmental task force was sitting in respect of the issue of rural retailing and that she hoped its findings would come to fruition shortly. As an aside, she might indicate whether this has happened. At the time, I also called for a task force on rural retailing to be set up, towards which the Minister of State was highly positive. I hope she may be able to respond to these two issues in her reply today.

This Bill aims to alleviate some of the pressure on the small to medium-sized enterprise, SME, sector and on artisan retailers in main streets and town centres nationwide by levelling the playing field to a degree from a competitive perspective. Unfortunately, however, much as all Members, including the Bill's mover, Senator Paul Coghlan, would wish to find some way to redress the imbalance and the misguided planning decisions that have brought us to this position vis-à-vis out-of-town shopping developments, the horse has bolted on that issue. I do not believe it will be possible to address this problem in the fashion one would wish at this time. Independent family-owned shops in Ireland employ 90,000 people and contribute €3.5 billion to the national Exchequer. A total of 75% of what they sell is produced in Ireland or sold through Irish suppliers. The money people spend in these shops stays in local communities and more initiatives like this Bill are needed to protect that particular part of the market. I did some research on this issue in the lead-up to my party's own retailing motion with a view to levelling the playing field for Irish-owned businesses with respect to those multinationals with which they are trying to compete. In my home town of Carrick-on-Suir, for example, 24% of all retail units on the high street are lying vacant. Subventions are needed by the Government to allow local authorities greater flexibility to pursue policies that promote businesses in town centres, such as the promotion of pop-up shops and once-off-type shopping.

An Taisce drew up a report recently on acquiring some funding for this area through the charging of a 50 cent per hour parking fee on all out-of-town shopping spaces nationwide. This would amass €16 million per year, which could be put back into the very issue this Bill is trying to address. It also is clear from my research that this Bill may encounter some obstacles, although I sincerely hope it will not. However, I clearly discern a difficulty in respect of retrospectively attempting to implement this type of legislation. The Minister of State may respond to that point. There is no doubt, however, that were the Bill passed, it would lead to a significant redistribution of profits from cash-rich multinationals back into local communities and local town centres to address the pre-existing imbalance. While I have conducted some limited research on this area since Members have had sight of the Bill, I am led to believe, however, that the valuation of properties in shopping centres and shopping malls works on the basis of the rent these units pay. Moreover, the rent is based on the availability of free parking, which is factored into the rental. Whether this Bill can be implemented on top of that type of valuation is a matter the Minister of State also might address.

I sincerely hope something can be done in this regard, but it comes back to Senator Thomas Byrne's observation - I believe Senator Maurice Cummins also mentioned it - that it all hinges on the Valuation (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012, which was introduced into this House in September 2012. One must wait for the new valuation system to be implemented and set across the country to ascertain how that Bill will make a difference between what is being charged for town centre retail shops and what is being charged for out-of-town multi-storey and multinational-type shopping arcades. In addition, we must ensure that where greater amounts of money are collected on a pro rata basis from the shopping centres, which I am led to believe will happen on foot of this Bill, this generated money is used by the local authorities to provide incentives to give a better opportunity and a better chance to retailers in town centres.

I am interested to hear the Minister of State's response to this important Bill. As Senator Paul Coghlan stated, it is limited to a specific purpose. It is a short Bill. If it can be implemented, it will be very effective. In saying this, I am cognisant from my research that there are potential difficulties and I would like to hear the Minister of State's response to them.

I support the work that Senator Paul Coghlan has done with his colleagues in order for us, as Members of the Oireachtas, to show that we are listening to people with small shops and business in rural areas who are struggling to keep their doors open on a daily basis, and that we can provide some hope to them that through the legislative system we can do something that will make it a little easier for them. I again thank Senator Paul Coghlan and the Minister of State for coming to the House.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan. I welcome the Bill and thank Senators Paul Coghlan, Maurice Cummins and Denis Landy for their presentation. We on this side of the House have always found a most courteous reception when we table Private Members' Bill, for which I thank Members opposite. The least we can do is to reciprocate their courtesy and kindness to us. I welcome the Government's Private Members' Bill. Perhaps such Bills should be more frequent. We would be delighted to participate.

The Bill breaks down in two segments. There is the transport cost problem and the property prices problem. I hope that when the Minister of State introduces her own legislation she looks again at our Bill, the Upward Only Rent (Clauses and Reviews) Bill 2013, which is No. 40 on the Order Paper, because much of this problem would solve itself if rents in urban areas fell. We all regret that we have had to deal with the recession. Everybody on both sides of this House has had to cope with the matters arising from rescuing banks and all sorts of other occurrences which have reduced consumer expenditure. I worry about what property right was inherent in the court's decision to allow upward-only rent renewals because, even within a half mile or one mile of this House, one can see all the empty shops that this has led to.

I visited Tralee on Tuesday of last week and was shocked at the number of empty shops there. My host said I should have visited six months ago because ten or 12 shops have opened since then in Tralee. At least business is starting to pick up again, which is good news. Senator Thomas Byrne mentioned Ballina and I agree with him on how busy it is. One of the ways of attracting people into the centre of that town is the Jackie Clarke museum, which is a new initiative. Those involved in town centres should think of ways to get people to come in and give them reasons. In Navan, two things are combined - the car-parking area is close to where the traditional town centre was.

I wonder about the difficulties we will encounter. As for filling stations on the periphery of towns, a certain number of grocery stores have moved out there and I do not know whether such business will ever go back into towns. Can one see petrol pumps being set up in the main streets? These and related businesses have naturally moved outside. The Cork city park-and-ride system is an interesting way of trying to get motorists to leave cars outside but come into the town centre themselves and there are substantial successes in areas such as the English Market. The same operates in Belfast.

I note the proposals to open up 10% of bus routes to new entrants. Waterford, Senator Maurice Cummins's constituency, is one of the places where that will be implemented in the strongest way because it already has independent bus companies. If one can get people in by public transport, maybe they can revive the shops that Senator Paul Coghlan and I wish to see doing well.

In the Minister of State's Department, there was a Living Over the Shop initiative to get people into towns. It seemed a relatively cheap way of doing so. I have not heard much of it of late, but perhaps when the Minister of State is introducing her own Bill we might see how that is doing. There may be persons in their late teens and early 20s who want to live in town, without gardens, suburban responsibilities, etc. Can we do more on derelict sites themselves? The upward-only rent review measures should be looked at.

Can we reform transport? I wonder whether in towns where there are no bus services park-and-ride systems should be exempt from any kind of restriction by the National Transport Authority. If anybody wants to set up such a system, it would get people into towns.

Some of the problems with which Senator Paul Coghlan's Bill deals are inevitable. Land prices are cheaper outside towns than in them. That is how Aldi and Lidl have been able to acquire those sites. Presumably, there were development levies that went with that, but it is an economic reality. Whether the section of the Bill under which a price is charged for parking outside the town based on the charge inside the town would be allowed to operate or would be an infringement of those persons' property rights would have to be considered.

The rationale for commercial rates must be looked at. We have moved away from it in the domestic model. No poor law valuations are used anymore; it is a market valuation. Perhaps that is a direction in which the Minister of State might be moving in her own valuation.

What do town centres do if we reduce the cost of parking and somebody parks all day and buys nothing? Do we need a different regime for short-term and long-term parking in those circumstances? I am with Senator Paul Coghlan, but I am merely wondering. In fact, some shopkeeper might say that a guy had parked outside his shop all day and nobody else could get in there because he had gone off somewhere else - for instance, he had got the train to Dublin - and that this had been a cost to him or her. That is an aspect that must be considered.

Of course, in the wider macroeconomic context, it would be difficult to exempt town centres from what has happened to the entire economy, such as the massive decline in the retail sales index and the massive emigration of young people who might have been living in some of those towns. That is why the House must always come together to ensure what happened to us in 2008 and subsequently is never allowed to happen again. One cannot take so many people and so much purchasing power out of an economy and not have the signs of it all around.

In addition to this initiative, on which I wish Senator Paul Coghlan well, in all such initiatives, such as ways in which town centres can attract people back in - sometimes without their cars - through park-and-ride bus systems and the Living Over the Shop scheme, we are at one with the Senator and the Minister of State in what can be done, because some of our towns look quite down-at-heel and intervention is urgently needed. I compliment Senators Paul Coghlan, Maurice Cummins and Denis Landy on their introduction of the Bill.

I also thank Senators Paul Coghlan, Maurice Cummins and Michael Mullins for introducing this Bill and raising important issues with regard to the treatment of car-parking spaces in the valuation of retail centres.

The Bill addresses a real concern that the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, and I share with Senators on all sides of the House - that retailers in town centres are losing out to the large out-of-town shopping centres and retail parks. We had an interesting discussion on Senator Denis Landy and his colleagues' Private Members' motion in the Seanad at the end of last year. Many of the issues that are being raised here in the Seanad are important ones, particularly for towns around the country. From the point of view of my own brief - because this is largely the area of responsibility of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform - we have been able to address some of the issues raised with regard to planning guidelines and guidelines for development contributions. I will introduce a planning Bill later in the year. We will take on board some of the suggestions that arose both in the previous debate and this one in so far as we can within my remit, but valuation is a matter that is within the Minister, Deputy Brendan Howlin's remit.

Many feel it is the availability of a plentiful supply of parking, which is sometimes though not always free of charge, in these out-of-town locations that is attracting shoppers away from town centres where parking is restricted and sometimes costly. There may be a perception that businesses in the retail parks enjoy an advantage over their town-centre competitors and that this parking advantage is not reflected in their costs or rates. The provisions in this Bill aim to redress this to some extent, at least, by increasing the rateable value of retail properties with parking for customers.

The Commissioner of Valuation is completely independent in the exercise of his functions under the Valuation Act 2001. The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform has been in contact with the commissioner to clarify existing principles and practice and has confirmed with the commissioner the practical application of the Valuation Act in this area. Car parks are rateable properties under the Act. Many car parks charge for parking and many exist as a stand-alone enterprise not linked with any shopping centre or place of work. Where a charge is made for parking, the car park is valued and rateable in its own right, as Senator Paul Coghlan said. Some car parking facilities, whether multistorey or at ground level, carry significant valuations and rates liabilities.

In those shopping centres where there is no charge, the arrangement is often reflected in the terms of the retailers’ lease and the value of the car parking is subsumed into the rateable value of the retail units in that centre. This was stated by Senator Denis Landy. The availability of parking will be reflected in a premium on the rent paid. Higher rents are reflected in higher valuations and rates payable. The availability of parking can be looked on in a similar way to any other amenity in an area. The location of a restaurant in an attractive part of a town or city will attract a higher rent than one in a less attractive area. Therefore, a retailer in an area with plentiful parking will more likely be paying a rent and rates that reflect the parking amenity. The fact that there are extra costs is outweighed by the attractiveness of the whole package available in one location versus another. The increased custom is most likely justifying any additional cost. This is a generalisation but the point is that any imbalance between locations will be reflected in the rental market for retail units. It is also reflected in the valuation of the property and, in turn, the rates liability on these units. As the rateable value is dictated to a large extent by the rent paid, market forces influence the rental and rates costs incurred in different locations. Over time, town centre locations should see a relative cost advantage. The point is that market forces are already influencing costs and if costs can redress an imbalance, these shifts in rental and rates costs are already a part of the system. I understand the Minister, Deputy Brendan Howlin, does not believe we can or should try to redesign a valuation system which already reflects market changes to achieve specific objectives.

Valuation is a very specialised area. Valuation principles are tried and tested, in many cases in the courts. Any change that is made to valuation practice has to be carefully considered to ensure it is does not have wider implications for the valuation and rating systems. While conscious of the objectives of the Bill, the Minister is satisfied that the valuation system, as it stands, is fully cognisant of the value of car parking. He will consider the points being made in the debate today. I will relay to him what I have heard here. He will be reading Senators’ contributions.

While the valuation system reflects the value of car parking and the changes in the rental market, the policy is to ensure valuations are as up to date as possible and reflect current market conditions. Senators will be aware that my colleague, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, as the responsible Minister, is currently in the process of bringing forward the Valuation (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012. Senator Thomas Byrne asked when it would proceed. I will raise that issue with the Minister.

The primary purpose of the Bill is to accelerate the national programme of revaluing every commercial and industrial property in the country that is being undertaken by the Valuation Office. The Bill amends several provisions contained in the Valuation Act 2001. These amendments include a number of technical changes to Part 5 of the 2001 Act, which deals with how valuations, including the revaluation of entire rating authority areas, are carried out. The Bill also proposes to amend Part 6 which deals with the carrying out of revisions of the rateable valuation of individual properties within rating authority areas between revaluations. Provision is also made for the commissioner to enter into an arrangement with a person or persons to assist in the performance of the revaluation function. The effect of this provision is to enable the commissioner to contract out some of the revaluation work in order to augment the in-house capacity of the Valuation Office. This is one of the express provisions intended to assist the acceleration of the national revaluation programme. I understand that following enactment of the Bill, the commissioner intends running a pilot revaluation project which will utilise such external resources.

Following enactment of the Bill, it is envisaged that revaluation projects can continue to be conducted through the normal direct assessment methodology. However, the Bill also provides for the commissioner to conduct a revaluation using elements of self-assessment by ratepayers. This provision is also intended to assist the acceleration of the national revaluation programme and I understand that, following enactment of the Bill, the commissioner intends running a pilot project which will utilise self-assessment principles. The Bill proposes to amend the 2001 Act by providing for the use of general market data or aggregated data, including statistical and computer-aided techniques, in determining valuations where the commissioner considers it appropriate to do so.

The Bill provides for streamlining of the appeals process. Under the Valuation Act, there is an opportunity to make representations before the final certificate is issued. There can be an appeal to the commissioner after the final certificate is issued and his decision can be appealed to the Valuation Tribunal and the High Court. The Bill will extend the period for representations to the commissioner and remove the appeal to the commissioner, which will streamline the representation and appeals process. Preparations for the return of this Bill to this House for Committee Stage are well advanced. I will try to obtain something more specific on that for Senators.

The national revaluation programme will be advanced as quickly as possible, and this is a priority for the Government and part of An Action Plan for Jobs. It will provide up-to-date valuations on which to base rates and greater equity and uniformity to commercial ratepayers. Not every business will see a reduction in its liability as a result of the revaluation because the shift in value is dependent on relative movements of property values. Local authorities will still have to raise the money they need for the services they provide.

Significant progress has been made on the national revaluation programme. The Valuation Office issued over 26,000 final valuation certificates for Dublin city and the three local authorities in Waterford in December 2013. Certification for South Dublin, Fingal and Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown authorities was completed previously, while that for Limerick city and county will be completed in 2014. When the revaluation of the Limerick authorities is completed, 55,700 properties will have been revalued. This equals one third of commercial properties numerically and 55% in terms of value. While there has been good progress recently on the revaluation programme, this momentum needs to be maintained. These revaluations mean that rates bills reflect modern values and relativities. Ratepayers in areas that have not been revalued are paying rates on valuations and relativities that existed in 1988. Once a local authority area has been revalued, the Valuation Act 2001 provides that the area will be valued again within ten years, at worst, but progressively revaluations will be repeated in a timeframe closer to five years rather than ten. Up-to-date valuations that reflect current market values and inherently include the value of amenities available, including car parking, comprise the best contribution that the valuation system can make to ensure a level playing field between town centres and out-of-town retail parks. If an imbalance continues and if there is a need to support town centres, the policy solution will have to be found elsewhere.

The enactment of the Valuation (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012 will assist the Commissioner of Valuation with the acceleration of the revaluation programme. Any issues arising from deliberations on this Private Members’ Bill that are consistent with sound valuation principles and practice can be considered further in the context of that Bill.

The Government’s Bill will greatly improve the valuation process and address many of the concerns expressed by Senators. However, the Minister does not oppose the Bill before the House. As I stated, I will bring the points raised in this debate to his attention. I thank the Senators for introducing the Bill and raising the important valuation issues we have been able to explore.

I thank the Minister of State very much for attending. It is always a pleasure to listen to her. I compliment my colleagues who introduced the Bill.

I would like to address directly the issue of out-of-town retail areas and superstores such as Lidl and Aldi which are incentivising shoppers to shop out of town, in many cases with free car parking that is often on land on which rates do not have to be paid.

I probably have a more strident view than others on the state of many towns and villages around the country. The town centres are absolutely decimated. There are many derelict shops, houses and other buildings and a sense that towns are bordering on death. There is absolutely no question about it. The Minister of State's language is not firm enough. Circumstances in Limerick are probably different from elsewhere, but there are many towns and villages around the country that have been totally decimated.

The town centres are gone. They are subject to pressure of high rates, an issue to which I will return later, and consumers are not spending. That is the tragedy. The German economy grew by only 0.4% last year. The growth came not through manufacturing but through consumers actually spending. Our consumers are not spending. They are buying more, but they are not spending any more money and if they are spending, it is very erratic. There is no consistent pattern of how they are spending as the level of spend is up one week and down the next week.

I have a problem, as I said many times previously, with the lack of commercial understanding by bureaucrats in local authorities who decide what the rates will be. They do not give a damn as to whether the retailers survive. Retailers can be found the length and breadth of the country in every town and village and provide employment nationally, whereas the multinationals and the large companies are engaged in urban areas. I am very passionate about this issue. I co-hosted a conference led by Sir Terry Leahy, former chief executive of Tesco, on 12 December in Dundrum town centre. He spoke very passionately about the issue. The Government should keep its nose out of business and out of retailers' business as it does not have a clue how to do business. Having worked in the public sector for a number of years I am aware that the people there are-----

-----very sheltered, whereas it is very different in the private sector. For example, when I became involved in starting up Lir Chocolates my passion was to create employment, given that the national unemployment rate was 17% at the time. The people in retail work morning, noon and night and if the shop is not open they are still on the job. For example, Tesco employs 15,000 people all over the island. There is no understanding by the majority of the people, the majority of elected representatives and the majority of Departments, particularly those which deal with trade, of the reality of the retail business. My experience is that they do not have a clue and increasingly I am getting more frustrated by the lack of understanding.

Towns and villages are reeling from the loss of critical local services such as Garda stations and the loss of many post offices willy-nilly around the country. It does not seem to matter a damn. I support the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, on his general philosophy on rationalising the Garda stations but not enough thought was put into it. It should have been done in consultation with local communities in a more European democracy style rather than the way it is done here.

The local government grant has been reduced and as a result local authorities are leaning more on poor retailers as a source of their income. How dare they? It has not been a strategic issue in the main. The whole focus in the budget was about maintaining the VAT rate in the restaurant and tourism area. We made a big fight for it and were part of the lobby group which sought to retain it. However, it was not covered on radio. I was not familiar with the issue of reintroducing PRSI which is having a awful effect on many retailers. They do not know how they will pay their staff as the increased PRSI rate for employers starts again.

The idea of a level playing field is important. This morning I had a meeting with two retailers, from the south of the city, two convenient store owners. The issue of the flexible parking charge in town centres was raised. At Dundrum town centre one pays for one hour and gets three hours parking for €2. People are crowding into it from all over Ireland because car parking is so cheap. If one goes into town or to Grafton Street the parking fee could be €10 or €11 on one's return. What is happening is madness. I blame local authorities, county managers and assistant county managers as they do not devote enough time to thinking about the jobs and retailers. Retailers have very demanding careers. Local authorities cannot rely on retailers to increase the rates. The rates on small shops which are endeavouring to keep going are exorbitant. One of those who was with me this morning has an outstanding rates bill for €60,000. Her bank went out of business and fled the country and now she is trying to negotiate with a new bank. She is a very good business person but consumer spending in the retail area has practically come to a halt.

In out-of-town centres appropriate rates should be charged to large companies with mega backup supports. These are not ordinary small retailers, they are colossal companies. I do not say I do not want competition. I love competition, it is the spice of life and I believe in it. What is happening is very unequal. The banks are disastrous and are not giving money to companies they consider might be vulnerable. For example, Danske Bank fled the country and would not have anything to do with this person. There is also the high cost of energy. I make the point that local authorities do not look at the issue in terms of employment created by retailers in all the towns and villages. They give first-hand opportunities to local manufacturers to display their products, thus creating employment.

The Senator's time has expired.

I apologise. There does not appear to be any logic to what is going on. I do not know from where we will get the brains to sort out the country. I am not optimistic.

I compliment Senators Paul Coghlan, Maurice Cummins and Michael Mullins on bringing the Bill before the House. Since I became a Member I have heard many raise the issue of what the large, out-of-town shopping centres are doing to local cities and urban and neighbourhood communities. We have seen the different policies of each local authority around the country. There are inconsistencies on the part of local authorities in respect of how they implement the charges. Therefore, a national policy would be good.

Senator Mary White mentioned the responsibility of local authorities and co-operation with retail outlets. It is not only the retail outlets that have to provide parking. I live in Dublin South West where there is one shopping centre that pays rates on its parking area. A revaluation process was finalised in Dublin last year. In that revaluation, parking spaces were valued out of all proportion but were reduced on appeal and, thankfully, that appeal system is working. It is worth bearing in mind that a case study could be undertaken of where shopping centres are suffering. I speak from experience of living in Dublin South West which has an out-of-town shopping centre. I commend Senator Paul Coghlan for bringing forward the Bill because towns are being denuded. We must define "out-of-town". When we look at Dublin and Tallaght, clearly Tallaght should be a city. Perhaps this is an opportunity to put down a marker again to say Tallaght is a city.

Tallaght is a lot more than a town - it is larger than Limerick - yet it is still defined as a town. There are also towns in other urban areas in the same situation. We must protect the local neighbourhood shopping centres in towns and places such as Templeogue and Rathfarnham, villages in Cork and places in Cork city. I am sure Senator Paul Coghlan had this in mind when drafting the Bill and that the matter will be addressed in detail in his legislation. On many occasions it has been mentioned that something must be done about out-of-town locations. His Bill has shown the way and given a lead on the matter. All the details must be ironed out. I express the view that we must protect local neighbourhood shopping centres.

We must also bring VAT rates into line. A lot of people use their cars to shop locally. VAT on bicycles is 25%, but if it was reduced to 0%, people might buy bicycles and use them to go shopping.

As another Senator has mentioned, rents are based on free parking, because every charge introduced has an impact on the shopkeeper and the customer who avails of the facility. How can we balance the needs of the retailer with the needs of local authorities? We do not want to infringe on a local authority's right to raise moneys through parking fees. Fair pricing, more flexible parking fees that do not erode the finances of local authorities, low off-peak rates and special day rates for parking could be introduced. All of the issues should be examined.

RGDATA conducted a survey on all of the shopping centres nationwide and made good recommendations. I am sure the Minister will take its recommendations into consideration. An Taisce has also made recommendations on the matter. I will not say any more.

I commend Senators Paul Coghlan, Maurice Cummins and Michael Mullins for their introduction of the Bill. We should consider what is meant by the term "out of town", particularly when one lives in a town that is not a town or a town that is not a city but has many towns surrounding it. We also need to define who pays what and what is flexible, because policies differ nationally. How will consistency be introduced and policies be brought into line? What about deprived areas that have shopping centres where there is no charge for parking? We must ensure that free parking remains, although I shall not mention the locations. All of these matters must be taken into consideration. As Senator Paul Coghlan said, the details will be dealt with in future legislation. I thank the Cathaoirleach and commend the Senators for their Bill.

Cuirim céad fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit, an Teachta McGinley, agus muid ag caint le chéile anois faoi ghnóthaí eile seachas gnóthaí Gaeilge agus Gaeltachta. Ba mhaith liom tréaslú leis na Seanadóirí a thug an Bille seo chun cinn. I bprionsabal, táimid ag tacú leis an rud atáthar ag iarraidh a chur chun cinn, ó thaobh beocht a chur arís sna siopaí beaga agus na gnólachtaí beaga atá sna bailte beaga timpeall na tíre. Is ait liom, ar bhealach, a bheith ag éisteacht leis an Seanadóir White agus í ag éagaoineadh maidir leis an easpa caiteachais atá san eacnamaíocht agus nach bhfuil airgead i bpócaí daoine, nuair i ndáiríre is é polataíocht na déine agus eacnamaíocht na déine a thug Fianna Fáil isteach, atá á leanacht ag an Rialtas, is cúis le cuid mhaith de na deacrachtaí atá againn.

I commend the Senators for their introduction of the Bill. Obviously one can find examples around the country, but let me give my county of Galway as an example. Without question the towns of Clifden, Oughterard, Spiddal, Moycullen, Loughrea and Ballinasloe are dying on their feet. However, the spirit of the Bill is to rejuvenate all of these rural towns.

It was amusing to listen to Senator Mary White talk about a lack of spending in the local community when the economics of austerity is the main culprit. The policy was spawned by Fianna Fáil and is being followed through by the Government. The fact that people do not have money in their pockets is a major factor in the demise of local towns and businesses.

The Bill is important because it examines another issue, that of commercial rates. It is a major issue for business but local authorities rely on such rates for funding. In some instances businesses claim that the rates levied on them make it difficult for them to remain in operation. I am not certain of the full truth of that or the extent to which businesses that cease to operate would claim that the level of rates alone was the key factor in making them unprofitable. Obviously there are other issues involved. My party believes that rates should be based on a business’s profitability rather than the valuation of the property, which to some extent is an historical value. During the debate we have heard examples of multiples selling vegetables cheaply. They have leverage over suppliers and some are located next door to grocers who try to sell vegetables sourced from a local market. It is not a level playing field for both enterprises. One way to level the playing field would be to take a company's profitability into consideration when making a rates valuation. My party would like to see that policy put forward.

We would also like the same situation to apply here that currently pertains on the other part of the island - that is, that the rate should be revised downwards when a new business moves into an unoccupied building. That would allow new start-up businesses some leeway as they find their feet. As I said, a fairer way to assess a tax, which is what rates are, would be to base it on the level of income generated rather than on the ostensible value of the property, which may bear little relation to the profitability of a business - no more than it does for a farm, for example.

The Bill seeks to allow businesses to basically offset the value of parking spaces provided their rates are reduced. It can be argued that the provision of parking spaces helps to bring more people into a town centre and, therefore, boosts the local economy and, by extension, the local authority. An argument in favour of the measure can be made, which I presume is the objective of the framers of the Bill, if the parking spaces are provided free of charge. If the businesses charge for parking then it is a source of profit and, therefore, is deemed to be an integral part of their income which should not be written off.

There is also the argument that if one allows some of the larger retailers to obtain lower rates because they provide free parking on hard surfaces that are part of their property, one is in effect allowing a substantial part of their property to be rate-free. All of these issues need to be considered as we debate the Bill. Perhaps a distinction can be made between the size of the businesses concerned.

I bprionsabal tacaíonn muid leis an iarracht atá ar bun ag na Seanadóirí anseo cothrom na féinne a thabhairt ar ais arís agus beocht a chur ar ais sna bailte beaga timpeall na tíre, go háirithe sna ceantair tuaithe. Tacaíonn muid leis an meon atá ag cur sin chun cinn. Tá an díospóireacht spéisiúil go maith agus tá muid ag súil go dtógfaidh an Rialtas ar bord an méid atá ráite agus é ag cur an Bhille nua chun cinn, agus an méid adúirt an tAire Stáit, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, níos luaithe. Tá súil againn go dtógfaidh siad ar bord na moltaí dearfacha atá á dhéanamh anseo sa Seanad inniu.

I did not indicate a wish to speak, but I have a question for the Minister. Is it true that the valuation Bill does not apply to existing buildings retrospectively? If so, my one concern is that new multinationals will view the Bill as an obstacle to moving into rural towns because they will be subjected to a different rate from that paid by multinationals that are already located in towns.

I thank all of the Senators for their contributions. I also thank the Minister of State, Deputy O'Sullivan, for representing the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and thank the Minister of State, Deputy Dinny McGinley, for being present.

All Senators, in one way or another, have said that the legislation is intended to level the playing pitch. I wish to respond to the requests made by some Senators to apply the legislation to properties such as large surface car park spaces that are not rated. The legislation does not apply to anything else, including pubs, restaurants or any similar business. As Senator Sean D. Barrett indicated, we can tidy up such matters on Committee Stage.

I thank Senator Thomas Byrne for his contribution, but I must confess that I have not read the Fianna Fáil policy document.

I will excuse the Senator.

I understood, probably through backchat or some communication with his good self, that Fianna Fáil shared my view and I felt sure we were travelling in the same direction.

A similar direction.

Yes. I understood we were on parallel tracks. The Senator asked whether the legislation applied to pubs and restaurants and I can confirm that it does not.

I thank Senator Denis Landy for his comments. He has strong views on towns and on levelling the playing field. He asked whether the legislation was retrospective, but I confirm that there is no question of retrospection. As he said, we have a duty to assist towns.

It is national policy to support the vitality of towns and increase their vibrancy by improving town centres. There has been significant investment in shop frontage, paving and piping in towns. The multiplicity of out-of-town centres is a setback to towns from Letterkenny to Wexford, and is a case of bad planning during the so-called Celtic tiger era. Senator Sean D. Barrett gave examples of the towns that have suffered and made some interesting points about long-term parking in towns. As he said, a regime would have to be devised to overcome the issue of people leaving their cars parked in town free of charge for the day. Unfortunately, as he highlighted, many of our towns have a down-at-heel look. Senator Mary White is correct in stating that many of our towns are decimated and I agree with her on the need to concentrate on creating employment to ensure the viability of our towns. Senator Cáit Keane referred to Tallaght which may be considered a satellite of Dublin but is respected as a town in its own right and has its own town centre. Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh spoke about how bad business was in many of the towns of County Galway. He suggests valuations should be based on the profitability of the business, but as we know, there are ways of hiding profitability. I do not think that would be a fair way to proceed. As I said already, only properties that are not rated are involved.

In response to the point made by Senator JOhn Kelly, as I see it, multinationals will face obstacles only in the planning policy applicable to the area in which they want to locate.

I am open to the Bill being amended. Members can introduce amendments on Committee Stage. I am very grateful to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, for stating he will not oppose the Bill. As he said, he is as committed as we are to providing a level playing field for town centres and out-of-town retail parks. I thank the Ministers of State, Deputies McGinley and Jan O'Sullivan, for their presence in the Chamber.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

On Wednesday, 22 January 2014.

Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 22 January 2014.

When is it proposed to sit again?

At 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday next.

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