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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 Jul 2014

Vol. 233 No. 2

Order of Business

The Order of Business is No. 1, Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2014 - Report and Final Stages, to be taken at 11.45 a.m.; No. 2, Employment Permits (Amendment) Bill 2014 - Second Stage, to be taken at 1.30 p.m. and conclude not later than 3.15 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes and the Minister to be called on to reply not later than 3.10 p.m.; No. 3, Health (General Practitioner Service) Bill 2014 - Committee Stage, to be taken at 3.15 p.m. and adjourn not later than 5 p.m., if not previously concluded; No. 4, Radiological Protection (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2014 - Second Stage, to be taken at 5 p.m. and conclude not later than 6.30 p.m., if not previously concluded, with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes and the Minister to be given five minutes to reply; and No. 60, Private Members' business, motion No. 11 regarding environmental protection, to be taken at the conclusion of No. 4.

As today is the sixth anniversary of the Dáil passing a motion, which had cross-party support, calling on the British Government to release all its documentation on the Dublin-Monaghan bombings and the bombing of Kay's Tavern in Dundalk, I ask the Leader to raise with the Taoiseach the progress made or lack of in that regard, and to reaffirm the Government's commitment to seek the documentation from the British Government in order the families of those innocent victims in Dublin and Monaghan can get the justice they deserve. We are no further down the line on that issue.

As the issue of the concerts was discussed at length yesterday, I do not propose to go into it in any great detail. The hit which the city and the country took yesterday, following the cancellation of the concerts, of €50 million to the hospitality sector and the loss of 70,000 visitors to Ireland made international news yesterday at CNN, Fox News and into BBC. It paints a poor picture of our city and country, a country that has successfully hosted major events. I believe the Dublin City Council manager needs to be taken to task-----

-----given that Dublin City Council's elected members were not listened to. Effectively, the city manager bottled it.

I say that as someone-----

The Dublin City Council manager is not here to defend himself.

We have to talk.

I would like if he attended the House as I would have something to say to him because he blew it. He has cost the ratepayers of the city and fans millions of euro.

His salary is paid for by the ratepayers.

As Senator Paschal Mooney has said his salary is paid by the ratepayers. He and his senior officials in the planning department of Dublin City Council should strongly consider their positions. This is a disaster for the city. We have got to make sure we get it right from hereon. However, I believe nothing can be done at this stage. One step would be to look at the legislation my colleague, Deputy Timmy Dooley in the other House, published in respect of amending the process in this regard, not specifically relating to these concerts as unfortunately that decision is made. I am disgusted with Dublin City Council manager and his officials who have made such an atrocious decision for Dublin and the entire country.

I ask the Leader for a debate early in the next session with the new Minister for Foreign Affairs. I understand the reshuffle will take place later today or tomorrow. I wish Senator Ivana Bacik all the best. It is fair to mention this in dispatches.

In regard to the situation in Israel and Palestine, all of us condemn the murders of the three Israeli teenagers a couple of weeks ago and the subsequent burning to death of a 15 year old Palestinian child. Now the Israeli defence forces are inflicting collective punishment on the people in Gaza for the actions in which Hamas has been involved and for which I condemn Hamas. There is an amassing of troops at the border at Gaza. Some 12 people were killed in air strikes the day before yesterday and the unrest is being allowed escalate. The Middle East is in a volatile state. We have always had a track record in Ireland of being honest brokers in this regard. When the Palestinian people are being punished again for the actions of Hamas terrorists we should tell the Israeli Government we do not agree with that as it is not the way a civilised state should perform. I ask the Leader, when the new Minister for Foreign Affairs is in place, to raise those concerns with him or her.

The pyrite resolution board is in place for a number of months. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, said he would report back to the House and I understand a quarterly report is being issued. I ask the Leader, in September, to invite the Minister, Deputy Phil Hogan, or the new Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to come in to report on the progress with the pyrite remediation scheme and the remediation of houses. I am in regular contact with those concerned. As with any scheme that is set up there are problems but this Chamber can be used to address those issues.

I echo Senator Darragh O'Brien's comments of concern and disappointment at the cancellation of the five concerts. It is not fair or appropriate to blame one official.

Permission was granted for three concerts.

Apparently, the decision was taken by the artist and promoter. I am aware another promoter went on radio this morning to express his view which was somewhat critical of the way it was done. We need to look at how we ensure change to ensure it does not happen again. As legislators we have allowed a practice to grow up where concert tickets were being sold in thousands, subject to licence. Clearly that process is no longer workable and needs to be changed.

Like Senator Darragh O'Brien, I call for a debate on the Middle East. All of us must have a huge concern about the escalation of military action by Israel in the Gaza Strip and the fact that women and children have been killed in attacks by Israel overnight. Of course, we all condemn the brutal murder of the three Israeli teenagers and the subsequent horrific murder of the Palestinian boy. The Israeli Defence ministry, in suggesting in comments this morning that Israel is merely responding to Hamas rocket attacks, does not ring true. Certainly to target civilians and civilian homes is not a legitimate use of force. All of us would have huge concern about what appears to be a further escalation of military action that is pending. I call for a debate as soon as possible with the new Minister for Foreign Affairs to speak about how the EU can seek to resolve matters and ensure this warfare does not escalate further. As we have witnessed horrific warfare in the Gaza Strip previously I hope we do not see it developing in the coming weeks.

I welcome yesterday's announcement by the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, and the Minister for Children, Deputy Charlie Flanagan, of an expansion for access to after school and community employment child care programmes. In that context, I ask the Leader for a debate on child care in the autumn. Yesterday's important announcement, which went under the radar, will greatly enhance the State provision of child care to low income families. The eligibility criteria will be expanded for the after school programme. A new option is being made available which is important for the parents of primary school children. It will provide not only subsidised after school child care places but also a pick-up service from schools. That will be a huge support to parents who wish to re-enter employment or upskill or train so as to enhance their employment opportunities. That the programme is being extended to children up to 13 years of age, an increase from the current age limit of five years, as well as the general expansion of child care provision for low income families is welcome. I hope we can have a broader debate on child care provision in the autumn.

I commend the advocacy initiative conducted by a large range of social justice NGOs, civil society groups and the community and voluntary sector.

It held its final conference yesterday at the RDS - I was privileged to be invited to speak at it - to look at the future of social justice advocacy in Ireland and the role of the community and voluntary sector in pressing for a more equal and inclusive society. I ask the Leader for a debate in due course on the role of the community and voluntary sector in enhancing social justice and seeking a more equal society. I commend Ms Anna Visser and all her team in the Advocacy Initiative.

As Members will be aware, the Seanad Public Consultation Committee recently held successful hearings on Ireland's obligations under the UN human rights treaty on civil and political rights and we subsequently sent that report in to the United Nations. The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Fitzgerald, will be before the United Nations committee on Monday next in Geneva for exchanges on how well Ireland is doing in complying with its human rights obligations. I wish to advise Members that one of this month's newsletters of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights featured the Seanad Public Consultation Committee report that has gone in to the committee in Geneva. It notes that it is a matter of good practice and that, as we found in the hearings, it is rare when parliamentary Members participate in the process of reviewing their country's human rights obligations under a UN human rights treaty. The United Nations noted the matter in its newsletter of this month, put on its page a screen grab of our website calling for submissions on civil and political rights, and quoted the committee's chair, Senator O'Donovan, with regard to what we are doing. It is quite significant, certainly in the United Nations and human rights world, that our committee has been noted in that newsletter that has gone out around the world.

In light of that, I wish to ask the Leader two questions. First, I ask that he would ensure that the Minister for Justice and Equality, in her remarks in exchanges with the committee in Geneva on Monday next, will refer to our report, which, I suppose, was an effort to support the Government in its exchange with the committee. Second, as Members may be aware, after every such hearing committees release concluding observations on the exchange with the member state. I ask that, in the autumn, the Leader might ask that the Minister come into the House and that we could have a debate on those concluding observations.

Yesterday was a bad day for Dublin, particularly, I suppose, if one was a Brazilian Garth Brooks fan. Not to be flippant about it in any sense, Mr. Brooks followed through on his threat to cancel all five concerts and it is a considerable blow to the Dublin economy. For a variety of reasons the tentacles of 400,000 fans attending a particular event in the city are far-reaching and affect everything, from restaurants to hotels, to hairdressers, to transports to taxis. It is devastating for the city. I would agree with Senator Darragh O'Brien on this, that the city manager does not seem to have been in any way prepared for this scenario as it unfolded and when officials continually repeated that there would be three concerts and yet, at the same time, communicating to those involved with Mr. Brooks that there could be four potentially. This sort of horse trading might be acceptable to us here in Ireland but, clearly, it does not wash internationally.

Those who were complaining in the area where these concerts were to be held were complaining about being inconvenienced by having to listen to music for a few days but it must be said of Mr. Brooks and his concerts, if one were to think of a lot of the events that will happen this summer in Ireland, they would be the least of residents' worries when it comes to fans being potentially unruly and matters getting out of hand. These are the same people who would be complaining about the state of the economy and things not being done. Clearly, there are a lot of people to blame here.

Senator Noone will not run in Dublin Central on the next occasion then.

Has Senator Noone a question for the Leader?

It is not about blaming. The process is flawed. I said the same yesterday. Clearly, the nod and wink approach that has been applied to this area of outdoor event licensing is not acceptable and needs to be amended.

I endorse what Senator Darragh O'Brien stated with regard to the unanimous proposal by the Dáil six years ago concerning the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. I note that at the time the then Clerk of the Dáil communicated the unanimous resolution to the House of Commons and to the Government of the United Kingdom, and the silence and lack of response since then is deafening. I will say no more on it. If the shoe was on the other foot, I am sure there would be clamour in the United Kingdom or in the North.

I primarily rise today to ask the Leader to get the relevant Minister - I am unsure whether it is under the Departments of Education and Skills or Social Protection - to immediately reverse the mean removal of the €20 SOLAS training allowance to those in the national learning networks throughout the country. I received a brief e-mail from one such person, who I will not name. It states that some national learning network students will speak at the AV Room in Leinster House today at 2 p.m. about the removal of the €20 SOLAS training allowance and how it has impacted on their lives and that the correspondent is a constituent and would like if I could come to hear how this cut is impacting on the amount of money that the students have during their training. The invitation states that these disadvantaged persons have decided not to stay in bed and want a better life, but the removal of the training allowance is holding them back, and asks is this the direction that a government should take or is it some sort of a stunt coming up to the end of term that will be forgotten in September.

I raised a similar issue about the advocacy for those who are deaf yesterday and I will raise it again tomorrow morning, if necessary. Somebody must listen to the plight of these people. Imagine these people, who are in some way disadvantaged, trying to get back into society and trying to make a case for themselves, having to travel from west Cork, Donegal, Mayo and elsewhere to meet us here today on an issue of removing a paltry sum of €20 of a training allowance. Shame on us all as public representatives. We are letting these people down. I propose an amendment to the Order of Business, to ask the relevant Minister, be it the Minister for Education and Skills or the Minister for Social Protection, to have this cut reversed immediately and to come into this House today, not tomorrow, to explain why these students should travel from all over Ireland to meet us here today on an issue that is beyond explanation.

I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Finance to attend the House as a matter of urgency to discuss the report published yesterday afternoon by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform on the mortgage arrears crisis and the measures that are contained in the report to resolve it. The report contains some 47 recommendations aimed at levelling the playing field between distressed borrowers and lending institutions. In particular, I note that the report recognises that banks are acting as judge and jury in determining what options distressed borrowers will be offered, with one bank, in particular, offering significantly more limited options. The report also recognises that the Central Bank must intervene and issue a definition of the term "sustainable solution". Many of us raised this issue previously in this House, that there is far too much differentiation between the lending institutions as to what constitutes a sustainable solution.

I am pleased to note that the report highlights the position of joint borrowers. It is one issue that is causing significant difficulties where there is a breakdown in a relationship, with one borrower co-operating and the other borrower not, leaving borrowers in a limbo where they are getting one solution from the courts, yet are put in a situation where they are getting no solution on their mortgage debt. As I stated, there are 47 recommendations in this very important report. If those recommendations were to be implemented by the Minister, Deputy Noonan, whom I am assuming will not be part of the impending Cabinet re-shuffle, it would go a significant way in helping distressed borrowers in this country to achieve an equitable outcome in their situations.

Yesterday, Members celebrated Senator Darragh O'Brien's birthday, which was a big birthday with a zero in the number.

They have not finished yet.

Next week, they hopefully also will have the opportunity to celebrate Senator Norris's big birthday with a zero in the number. His birthday falls next week and just in case he is not present, Members should remember it by mentioning it today and should celebrate it because, as the Father of the House, he is the longest-serving Member here.

I would love to have a debate on the introduction of some form of online information whereby each citizen could see where his or her taxes are being spent. This is available in other countries, where one simply gets that information online. I raised this issue last year and the Minister, Deputy Howlin, stated it was already available. However, that is not the case as not even the information is available. I seek a facility whereby all citizens could go online and see where every penny of their taxpayers' money is spent and on what it is spent. Every citizen should have such information, as it is available in other countries, and states within the United States are also able to do this.

Yesterday, Members had a good debate on the Competition and Consumer Protection Bill 2014 with the Minister, Deputy Bruton. However, in the near future, when Members return after the recess, there is room for a debate with whoever is Minister at that stage, regardless of whether it is still Deputy Bruton, on the fact that jobs are available. I read in one newspaper article that something like 400,000 people are on the live register but hoteliers cannot get people to work in hotels. When one visits a hotel or restaurant now, one invariably encounters people from a country other than Ireland. There must be something that can be done to encourage it and while I believe that is possible, it will require a debate. Yesterday, the Joint Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation had a good debate involving a number of young entrepreneurs, who clearly identified that there are things we should be doing. Members should make sure they have this debate, hopefully after the summer recess.

I welcome the news over recent days regarding a huge increase in investment in farm buildings. It has increased by 50% to a total of €450 million in 2013. This reflects the confidence in the industry and in the dairy industry in particular, ahead of quotas being abolished in 2015. Agriculture has continued to grow right through the recession but it is of vital importance to continue to support and encourage farmers, particularly given the difficulties being encountered by farmers in the beef sector. Members must do everything possible, prior to the autumn sales of weanlings, to make sure the beef sector equally can move ahead and find the finances necessary to grow its business from 2015 onwards.

It is likely that a new Minister for Health will be in place later today or tomorrow. Members should reflect on one key policy priority of the outgoing Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, which was that all outpatients should be seen by a consultant within 12 months, while all inpatients should be seen within nine months. Today, I received figures from the Health Service Executive, HSE, regarding University Hospital Waterford, which is located in the Leader's native city, showing that 4,176 patients in the south east have been waiting for more than 12 months to see a consultant or to be seen at the hospital. There are a number of key pressure points in dermatology, ear, nose and throat, ENT, and orthopaedics but 4,176 patients who should be seen within 12 months have been waiting for a longer than that time. Moreover, nearly half of them have been waiting for more than two years and clearly, the policy has failed.

In a hospital within the Leader's native city, there still is no 24-7 cardiology cover, despite a promise made by the outgoing Minister for Health that this would be provided. Proper dermatology services are still lacking because consultant posts cannot be filled and yet, a recent OECD report shows that consultants in this State are paid more than in most countries in the OECD. I again ask for the new Minister for Health, when he or she is appointed, to come into the House to have a debate on the failures of the outgoing Minister for Health, as well as on the impact those policy failures are having on patients across the State. I certainly will take the opportunity to raise the real concerns of the people of Waterford and the south east in respect of cardiology, dermatology, ENT, neurology and orthopaedic services, all of which are critical areas in which there are backlogs and long waiting times. I appeal to the Leader to arrange such a debate as soon as the Cabinet reshuffle has been completed and Members can get down to the serious business of fixing the problems in the health service.

The blame game with regard to the cancellation of the Garth Brooks concerts continues but over the past week, all I heard with regard to the residents around Croke Park was a single word, around which I could not really get my head, namely, "lockdown". I was told it was quite serious and was led to believe that people around that area could not go out and buy a loaf of bread for five days. They would lead one to believe they were somehow in Beirut rather than Croke Park and that Garth Brooks fans were terrorists coming down Jones Road.

However, I discussed this matter last night with a member of the Garda Síochána. He told me that although the GAA is being criticised for not making a public statement on this issue, the association had agreed parking facilities for the residents at Jones Road, which are free and just across the road. Moreover, they get passes in and out of Jones Road at will. Local kids are employed in an array of services that are provided to the public but they will not be getting that opportunity now. There is emergency access for general practitioners and ambulances. They get tickets to the event, as well as an offer of €500,000 for either local services or some kind of local community development. People must understand that while life would be uncomfortable for them, one cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs.

It was ironic that last Sunday, two days before the decision was made to cancel the five events, a friend of mine, Shane Curran, who played in goal for Roscommon, wrote an article in the Sunday Independent headed "A new stadium would breathe life into ailing region". Mr. Curran suggests that consideration be given to building a new stadium outside the M50 in the midlands - either west or slightly east of the Shannon - in a neglected part of rural Ireland where there is no development and obviously no intention of development for the foreseeable future.

Does the Senator seek a debate this issue?

Should one build a stadium that has planning permission to host concerts, the problem could then be solved and facilitated. Yesterday, I mentioned to a colleague that this is something Members should debate in this House. Were a stadium in place for which one was not obliged to seek a licence and that came with planning permission to host concerts, no matter how many, one could breathe life into rural Ireland and could create many facilities, including educational and service facilities, surrounding that.

The Senator is over time.

I ask the Leader to facilitate a debate on this issue at some time after the Seanad returns in September, because this kind of debacle, whereby residents have stopped €50 million from coming into the city of Dublin, is outrageous.

That was a very interesting contribution. I second Senator O'Donovan's proposed amendment to the Order of Business.

Further to raising an issue yesterday regarding abuse of social media and anonymous tweets, I brought the issue to the attention of Mr. Billy Hawkes, the Data Protection Commissioner. In a warning to an MEP not to repeat lies on Twitter, unless he takes down those tweets he will be open to prosecution by the Data Protection Commissioner. I hope to proceed in this regard as that will teach certain people lessons about how to treat others and to have some respect and manners for the ordinary citizen and not to walk on the ordinary citizen.

I certainly will campaign to protect the rights of Irish citizens in respect of social media and the abuse thereof. I certainly will investigate what other action should be taken in the State in this particular regard. What is happening at present is that tweets and statements are being put up by anonymous sources, which can be and will be traced. However, these are then fed into the system and become a reality. Then, media such as TheJournal.ie carry out an investigation, check the sources and will not put them up unless they are satisfied the facts are true and cannot be challenged in court or otherwise. This is an area the Seanad should debate in the autumn. The appropriate Minister should be brought into the House to outline precisely what action is being taken in the State. The citizens have a right to be protected and I note Members have protection in the Chamber.

We have the right of response in this House and we have the privilege to make statements to alert people to this issue and, if necessary, name those who are abusing the system. When a statement goes up, it leads to further abuses throughout the country and it ends up as a fact when it is only fiction. For all time, that will be in Google. If one Googles a name, those wrong statements will appear. I am alerting the House to this issue. I will be considering a Private Members' Bill and I have been in contact with the Data Protection Commissioner to see if he requires further support. He could bring that to the Government.

I support the points made by Senators O'Brien and Bacik on the situation in Gaza. It is outrageous. I ask the Israelis to desist and ask Hamas to stop firing bombs into Israel. It is only provoking a very powerful foe.

I raise the issue of licensing arrangements for outdoor concerts and suggest that the law needs to be amended in this regard. In respect of the events over the weekend, which have reached a crescendo with yesterday's cancellation of all five concerts, it is incredulous that a concert promoter and a venue could agree a deal of this magnitude, sell tickets and then express amazement when permission is refused even though they knew full well the imposition it would have on residents and the already fraught relationship that exists there. Over the weekend, Henry Mountcharles expressed surprise that the potential for such licensing difficulties did not occur to those involved. He is not unused to holding events of this magnitude and his views should be taken on board. Is it seriously to be suggested that a five-day event which attracted nearly 400,000 people did not ring warning bells in the heads of those involved in the organisations concerned, particularly given the residential setting? I urge Senators to read the statement from Dublin City Council, which seemingly advised the promoters at every stage of the process that it was concerned about the number of shows and their impact on local residents. We now have a situation in which many locals are understandably furious because of the promises they were given and ticket holders who bought their tickets in good faith are also very annoyed at what has occurred. If promoters and venues are not willing to act responsibly, the Oireachtas should do it for them. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to the House to discuss amending the legislation to ensure tickets for large-scale concerts cannot be sold in advance of acquiring the requisite licence.

I second the proposal by Senator Bacik to hold a debate on child care and after-school care. Given that we lack guidelines on after-school care, it would be a very welcome opportunity to have a debate.

The issue I wish to raise concerns investment, Ireland and the European Commission. We are sleepwalking into the next round of the European Commission. We often say Ireland punches above its weight at the EU. However, while it is fantastic that Mairead McGuinness, MEP, was elected Vice-President of the European Parliament, in terms of chairs and vice-chairs of European Parliament committees, there is no Irish member in the leadership of the 22 parliamentary committees. In respect of the Commission, it is suggested that Ireland should seek the agriculture portfolio. That sounds great because agriculture is important to Ireland but the work has been done on agriculture. Ireland should be seeking the digital agenda or taxation portfolios. The digital agenda is something that could benefit Ireland. We could bring investment into Dublin and the rest of Ireland. It is a missed opportunity to build on the work that Commissioner Kroes has done to date. We should be having a discussion on the portfolio we will seek, as well as putting forward the right candidate for that portfolio. I know my calls will fall on deaf ears but if we are serious about maintaining our influence in Europe, we should be looking for a portfolio and an agenda on which work will be done over the next five years.

To pick up the issue raised by Senator O'Brien, there is something seriously wrong with a system that allows more than 400,000 people to buy tickets for a concert without giving an all-clear under the licensing system. Equally, however, it is wrong in our democracy that any one man, such as the individual to whom the Senator referred, should have so much power without any checks and balances or right of appeal. It is wrong in any democracy and it calls for redress. He should at least have listened to council members. Perhaps when we return in the autumn, and hopefully matters are calmer, we will reflect on these events and devise or put forward views and ideas as to how the system should operate. It is a frightful mess as it stands.

I call for a debate on immigration reform. Last week my colleague, Senator O'Donovan, spoke about the difficulties US citizens face in getting work permits in Ireland. I am delighted that on of foot of our discussion in the Seanad on the one-year J1 intern programme, the programme is now being extended until 2016. I thank the Leader for raising the issue with the Taoiseach.

I am also concerned about another issue raised by Senator O'Donovan, namely, the cuts to the advocacy service for members of the deaf community. A number of us received leaflets on the subject as we entered Leinster House this morning. There is nothing more ironic than a Government cutting funding for a service that speaks for people who cannot speak for themselves. They were told in an e-mail that their appeal would be heard by telephone. That is the equivalent of asking an illiterate person to make an appeal in writing. This issue needs to be debated. I am disappointed we did not debate it yesterday because the Members opposite were unable to support our amendment to the Order of Business. I ask them to reconsider in order that we can arrange a debate next week on the cuts to funding.

I support my Seanad colleague on the appeal for a debate on the Dublin-Monaghan bombing. Some 33 people were killed in a mass murder. All we ask is that the British Government release the files. That has been called for by all parties in this and the other House. If I were the British Government and had been accused of mass murder by another state, I would like to clear my name by releasing those files. It does not want to release the files, however. Perhaps Senator Coghlan raised the issue when he had lunch with the British ambassador and the files may be released before 2016.

In regard to an issue of importance for members of the Joint Committee on Health and Children, I ask the Leader if he can bring the Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts into this House. The Committee of Public Accounts has written to the Joint Committee on Health and Children to tell us we cannot deal with any of the organisations that are funded by the HSE. Approximately 25% of the HSE's budget, or €3.27 billion, is being paid out to 2,600 organisations. We are unable to examine how that money is being spent by these organisations because the Committee of Public Accounts claims it is the only committee that is entitled to examine this expenditure. It is only investigating two organisations but another 2,598 are also being funded by the HSE. The Chairman of the committee should be brought into this House and asked to explain why we are not allowed to do the job we were appointed to committees to do. We are not allowed to investigate how 25% of the HSE's budget is being spent. It is outrageous and the Committee of Public Accounts should stop acting as if it is in complete control of the health budget. The only way to achieve that is by asking the Chairman of the committee to come into the House to explain why an embargo is being imposed on members of the Joint Committee on Health and Children.

The deteriorating situation for Palestinians has to be a source of concern for all decent-minded people. The massing of troops and tanks by Israel as a prelude to an assault on a downtrodden, deprived and defenceless people is reprehensible. The only thing that can come from such an assault, as we have seen in the past, is the slaughter of the innocents.

Surely we must have learned something from the other trouble spots in the world - Iraq being an example - which is that force is no substitute whatsoever for dialogue. There should be dialogue in this case. When a government of unity was established by the Palestinians, I thought that all of us, including Israel, would welcome that. Instead, however, Israel went on a diplomatic offensive to undermine it.

We saw exactly what happened in the North of Ireland when we took the power-sharing approach and dialogue began to move forward. That is precisely what is required at the moment.

My voice may be small-----

-----but I appeal to Israel in this case. I know they listen because of the missives I have received from them in the past any time I have spoken on this issue in the House. I spoke on the invasion of Iraq along exactly the same lines. I do not want to say "Weren't we correct at that time?", but I ask Israel, for once, to let decency prevail in this particular case. As we sit here, hundreds of Palestinian prisoners are on hunger strike. A large number of them have already been hospitalised. Do we need to look at Northern Ireland to realise what that means, and the potential it has for further conflict and further loss of life?

I genuinely believe that Israel is not listening. I am hearing this from among the Irish people and I can see it in the media. The Israeli ambassador would be doing good not just for his own country or for a Palestinian state, but also for humanity, by relaying what he is hearing on the ground here back to his own masters in Israel.

Much has been said in recent days about the terrible loss of revenue arising from the cancellation of concerts in Croke Park. It is self-evident and does not need any further embellishment from me. However, there are certain issues from which lessons must be learned. One is that no amount of spin will substitute for real and meaningful reform of local government. The fact that any one person is allowed to make decisions of this nature, particularly somebody who has no electoral mandate and is appointed in a system that is highly questionable, must be examined. I may not be up to speed with how the Local Appointments Commission currently functions, but when I was involved in local government it was pretty evident that it operated as an old boys' club. The names of people who were going to secure positions were often known well in advance of any interviews or recruitment process. At one stage, I heard a Minister describe the Local Appointments Commission as being corrupt. It needs to be looked at and we should move away from executive decisions.

There should be an incremental movement to reserve functions of the council so that elected members, who have a mandate from the people, can exercise decisions. They are accountable to the public and will be held responsible for their decisions subsequently. I ask the Leader to invite the new Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to attend this House for a full debate on the issue.

Or the old Minister?

Or the old Minister.

I agree with my colleagues, including Senator Ó Murchú, who have eloquently articulated the situation concerning the Palestinians and what is happening in Israel and Palestine at the moment. It is a real travesty that Israel set about ensuring that the peace talks under the US Secretary of State, John Kerry, would not make progress. It was a brave move on Mr. Kerry's part as peace talks had failed so many times. In the lead up to those talks, I happened to be in Israel and Palestine with a group from the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs. It was evident to us from our discussions, both in the Knesset and also among the Palestinians, that while the Palestinians were hopeful, there was no doubt that the Israelis did not want it to succeed.

The continuation of the settlements, the imprisonment of Palestinians and their treatment in prison, and particularly the treatment of youngsters in Palestine, have no doubt led to the radicalisation of a number of those people. It is very difficult. If any of us were young Palestinians and we saw the manner in which President Abbas, who has made strenuous efforts to get an agreement, has been treated and the dismissive approach of the Israelis, I think one would be steering towards Hamas as the only ultimate solution for a resolution of the difficulties in Israel.

I find myself in agreement with Senator Daly on the removal of the advocacy service for the deaf community. This has been an oversight in reform, so I sincerely hope that this situation will be remedied. There are many ways in which that can be done. I urge the Government and the new Cabinet to identify a way of restoring the advocacy service. For obvious reasons, the deaf community feels totally isolated. Unfortunately, deafness has been isolated as a disability. We have had productive discussions here on Irish Sign Language and I respectfully suggest that Seanad Éireann is a friend to deaf people in Ireland. The message should go from this House that we believe there is a case for this advocacy service to be funded. Common sense should prevail.

I also agree with Senator Ó Murchú and others who have spoken about the international situation.

Senator Walsh referred to the licensing issue with one person having the final say. In any society, it is always good to have a structured system of appeal. We have it in the planning process and social welfare area, as well as for medical cards. It operates in myriad areas in society, so why should the licensing structure be any different? We need fundamental reform of this matter because it is embarrassing not just for the 400,000 people involved, but also for our reputation internationally.

I am seeking a debate with the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources regarding his announcement that he has received Cabinet approval to introduce legislation to enable An Post to access Sky and UPC subscription data. We are told that is part of a drive to reduce TV licence evasion, but it seems to me that the Minister is proposing to allow the rifling of private data to facilitate RTE. He is proposing to grant a power that not even the Revenue Commissioners possess.

The Minister is acting in keeping with the uncomfortably close relationship between the Government and RTE. A broadcast tax has been promised that would be levied on every household in Ireland regardless of whether people are accessing RTE television content. Not satisfied with that proposal, which seems unjust to me, the Government now wishes to reach into the data of private individuals to satisfy the bloated bureaucracy in RTE. Let us remember that RTE is back in surplus. It has had an increased allocation from the licence fee and is sitting on a massive landbank in a prestigious area of Dublin. It is proposing to go ahead with a massive development of the order of €350 million. It seems that special treatment is being given to RTE in these situations.

If a person has a private contractual relationship with a service provider, be it for television, online betting or a magazine subscription, the data created as a result of that relationship is private, unless there is an overwhelming public interest in releasing it, for example, in a criminal investigation. It should not be the business of RTE or An Post to snoop on the activities of private citizens for revenue-raising purposes. This crosses a line, so I would be grateful if the Leader could invite the past, present or future Minister - whoever he or she may be - so that we can debate this matter because major issues of concern have arisen.

I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to the House to discuss the situation in the Middle East and Ireland's position in that regard.

In debates on the Israeli-Palestinian question in the House, I tend to have a lot of sympathy for the Israelis. I am aware that would be a minority position. In the past, the Israelis and the Jews, in particular, have been the victims of dreadful atrocities, including the Holocaust. Israel is a nation under siege. However, it is time Israel recognised that there is a political solution on offer which it should negotiate with the Palestinians and that it is to its benefit to do so. It has peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan and other nations in that area are not out to destroy it. I agree that Israel should take a more measured response to what is happening.

However, I do not agree that Hamas should be given control. Hamas is the agent of Iran. It discriminates against women in an awful way in the West Bank and Gaza, but that is a little beside the point. I would never say that Hamas should be given a leading role in anything. It would be good if the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade came to the House for a debate.

I wish our colleague, Senator Bacik, every success. She is highly qualified for any job in any Department but particularly the Department of Justice and Equality. I wish her well on behalf of my colleagues.

She should not forget about us.

Exactly. She should not forget about us.

A Russian television network highlighted the speech by Pope Francis in the Santa Maria basilica on 15 June in which he criticised Europe for being tired because of the high level of unemployment and discarding the elderly. This Government has caused huge stress and anxiety to older people in our society. Older people have suffered a raft of cuts under this Government. Over the past three years, the telephone allowance has been abolished, the household benefits package has been slashed and the fuel allowance has been cut by six weeks. I can assure Members of the Government parties that Fianna Fáil will resist any tampering with the free travel pass introduced by Mr. Haughey, as Minister for Finance, in outstanding legislation in 1967. Ministers are supposed to be innovative and creative. That is what they are there for and not to let the bureaucrats tell them what to do. We will fight this on the doorsteps and on the plinth.

On the beaches.

(Interruptions).

Senator White, without interruption. Do you have a question?

Fianna Fáil will fight cuts to the free travel pass for older people and people with disabilities. Do not dare to touch it.

There is no argument about that.

The Pope also said that the treatment of older people and people with disabilities reflects the quality of the society. That was on Russian television.

Is the Pope joining Fianna Fáil?

I would hope that the Pope would be a bit more infallible than Fianna Fáil but my clear understanding is that absolutely no consideration is being given to the removal of the free travel pass.

There is a review underway. Stop the Government review.

Senator Bradford, without interruption.

I believe it is the subject matter of a Private Members' motion in the other House so, presumably, it will come to a satisfactory conclusion for everybody this evening.

I support the request from Senator Jim D'Arcy that the Leader invite the new Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to the House to discuss two issues, if we have time which, I hope, we will. It is important to discuss the situation in the Middle East. I listened with interest to the comments by my colleagues about the current crisis. While Garth Brooks is on the front page of every newspaper, there is a situation developing in the Middle East with profound long-term consequences to every citizen of the globe.

I accept what Senator Walsh said that we must reflect on the plight of Palestinian young people and ask what would we do if we were them. However, I would also ask colleagues to reflect on the plight of Israeli young people, not just today but for generations. Their existence is deemed by a certain number of states and terrorist groups as being dispensable. Let us acknowledge that, even as we speak, there are states whose avowed intention is to wipe the state of Israel off the map. If we were living under those conditions, we would feel very defensive. I am not condoning the excessiveness of the Israel military operations but we must always see both sides of the story and we should strongly proclaim the right of Israel to continue exist. That should be at the centre of our debate.

The second reason to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to the House is that we urgently need a debate on the political situation in Northern Ireland. The House will be in recess on 31 August, the 20th anniversary of the 1994 ceasefire, which came 25 years too late for 3,000 people. However, it would be useful if we debated the current situation in Northern Ireland before the recess, if possible.

As I am sure the Cathaoirleach and many Members will be aware, some of the Leader organisations are in the capital today. They had a press conference this morning and will hold a demonstration at lunchtime and I hope to see Members of this House supporting them. In my own town of Kilfinane, the Leader group, Ballyhoura Development, is the major employer in the town. It is probably the only organisation in the town bringing people into the area. Efforts made by Ballyhoura Development and its predecessor, Ballyhoura Fáilte, over the past 20 years have benefited the area and the town hugely. In that part of south east County Limerick and north Cork, from Cappamore to Kilmallock to Mitchelstown to Castletownroche, Ballyhoura has become byword for quality. We have the fantastic Ballyhoura mountain bike trial and the Ballyhoura hostel and there are food brands which carry the Ballyhoura name. It has almost become a quality mark in the region.

We have opened up this Chamber as a forum previously. I understand alignment to an extent and I know that some Leader organisations are not as good at what they do as Ballyhoura is in my area. Ballyhoura should be the ideal to which everybody aspires. We are in the middle of a Cabinet reshuffle and there will be a new Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government. Limerick has suffered already with the amalgamation of the county and city councils. I ask the Government hold back on alignment for now until we have a proper debate in this Chamber with the CEOs of the different Leader organisations and the new Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government. Let us hear their points of view. I hope the Leader can facilitate that as soon as possible.

Like Senator Mary White and others, I wish Senator Bacik well as a potential future member of the Cabinet or Minister of State. While Senator White said she would be particularly suited to the Department of Justice and Equality, I think she would be well-qualified to take on any ministry save that of defence because I doubt she could sit on the fence for very long.

On the sixth of anniversary of Dáil Éireann passing a motion calling on the British Government to hand over any original documents it has on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, I join with Senator Darragh O'Brien and others in calling on it to do so. I further suggest that we have an all-party motion in this House calling on the British Government to stop hiding behind many false walls and hand over whatever original documentation it has on these two atrocities which occurred on this part of the island.

I join previous speakers in calling for a debate on the planning process, specifically as it applies to major events such as the proposed Garth Brooks concerts, which ended in a fiasco. It is not right to vest in one individual the power to decide whether an event should proceed. If only one person in each country had the power to decide the judicial outcomes of civil cases and his or her decision was not subject to an appeal mechanism, our democracy would be a poor one. Having said that, the location of a major arena in an urban area is not a reason for ignoring the wishes of local people. Local people, including those living near Croke Park, should be given adequate consideration with regard to any plans to hold major events in future.

Since becoming a Member of the Seanad, I have not done what I now propose to do. I read recently that under the previous Fianna Fáil-led Government, the Christmas bonus-----

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

-----of €223 was abolished, the State pension was cut and carer's allowance, disability allowance, the blind pension, widow's pension and invalidity pension were cut twice.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Yes. This was all done under the watchful eyes of Deputies Micheál Martin, Willie O'Dea and Éamon Ó Cuív and Ms Mary Hanafin, all of whom were Ministers at the time. These are the facts and figures.

The Senator did not put a question to the Leader. He should resume his seat.

Will the Leader ask Senator White to withdraw the remarks she made?

How dare Senator O'Neill. I will not do so.

The Fianna Fáil Party is scaremongering again.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

I am on the same page as Senator Brennan on this matter.

The Senator should resume his seat if he does not have a question for the Leader.

The notion that the Government is trying to cut free transport is-----

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

I am entitled to continue to speak. I am asking that the Leader request Senator White to withdraw the remarks she made.

The Senator should not waste his time.

The issue the Senator raises does not have anything to do with the Order of Business.

Fianna Fáil is scaremongering.

Senator O'Neill is completely out of order.

As Senator Brennan stated, Fianna Fáil cut the blind pension, invalidity pension, disability pension and carer's allowance.

The Government is causing distress to older people.

The Senator does not have a question. He must resume his seat as he is completely out of order.

Senators on this side must also have fair play.

Senator O'Neill is missing Uncle Phil already.

The Leader of the Opposition, Senator Darragh O'Brien, and other Senators raised the all-party motion on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings that was passed in the other House six years ago. The Government has sought on a number of occasions - as did, I presume, the previous Government - the relevant documentation from the British Government and the Taoiseach has sought it from the British Prime Minister. The Government will continue to try to obtain the relevant documentation, which the British Government is not currently releasing. I assure the House that the Government will continue to press this matter with the British Government.

A number of Senators raised the question of the negative publicity arising from the Garth Brooks debacle. Short-term, knee-jerk reactions, especially regarding planning legislation, will not provide a viable solution to the problem. In light of the current controversy, it appears that certain aspects of the current regulations require review, in particular, the timeline requirements for the submission of applications by event organisers, the deciding of such applications by the relevant planning authority in advance of an event or a series of events, and the absence of a specific appeals mechanism in respect of decisions on event licences, which is an issue a number of Senators raised. Judicial review is an avenue that can be pursued.

In light of the current controversy, the Taoiseach has requested the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to conduct a review of the planning regulations with a view to preventing a scenario arising in future similar to that which has arisen with regard to the Garth Brooks concerts. A great deal of time and effort has been put into bringing this event to Ireland, including by businesses such as hotels and bars, and large numbers of people from abroad had planned to attend the concerts. A great deal of work is invested in trying to attract this type of business to the country, and in that respect it is an absolute disgrace that this has happened.

A number of Senators raised the current conflict in Israel and Palestine and the unacceptable atrocities that have taken place in recent weeks. I will accede to the request to invite the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to the House to set out the Government's position on the conflict and outline the European response.

Senator Darragh O'Brien called for a report on the progress made in the pyrite remediation scheme. As the quarterly review of the scheme is due soon, we will probably arrange to discuss the matter in September.

Senator Bacik raised some of the same issues as Senator O'Brien and called for a debate on child care. She also welcomed the announcement that after-school child care is to be extended and commended all the individuals involved in the Advocacy Initiative.

Senator Zappone raised the report of the Seanad Public Consultation Committee on human rights. I compliment the Senator on her input into the report and I will ask the Minister for Justice and Equality to comment on it. It is good that United Nations publications note that the Seanad has spoken on this matter. I will request the Minister's attendance for a debate on the concluding observations of the United Nations when they become available.

Senator O'Donovan referred to the removal of the SOLAS training allowance and spoke about advocacy services for deaf people, as did a number of other Senators. I will not amend the Order of Business to have a Minister come before the House to discuss this issue today as it can be addressed at any time, with a Minister present, if the Senator raises it on the Adjournment.

Senator Hayden referred to the necessity to implement the recommendations of the report on mortgage arrears. I fully concur with her and hope it will be possible to have the relevant Minister come before the House to discuss the report and its recommendations.

Senator Quinn spoke about the possibility of having information provided online to notify people of where tax revenue is spent. I recall the Senator raising this matter with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, last year. He also noted that a significant number of job vacancies are not being filled, despite the fact that 400,000 people are unemployed.

Senator Comiskey welcomed figures on investment in farm buildings, which augur well for the future of farming.

Senator Cullinane referred to hospital waiting lists. While some people have been waiting for up to two years, the position has improved significantly since the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, took office. One need only recall the waiting lists in place when he took office. A difficulty has arisen in filling consultant posts. While the Senator argues that consultants are paid too much, consultants argue that they are not paid enough and suggest that this explains the failure to fill 20% of posts.

I agree that something must be done to address the matter.

They are paid 52% more than their counterparts.

Senator Leyden spoke about the Data Protection Commissioner warning about social media content and I agree with his remarks. Senator van Turnhout spoke about child care and after-school care, and she also gave her views on the next person to fill the portfolio of EU Commissioner. I am sure the Government is working on that as we speak. Senator Colm Burke referred to the €3.7 billion paid to various health organisations and the health committee not being allowed to examine these. That is a matter for the Committee of Public Accounts and the health committee, and I have no wish to get involved in the arguments. I am sure they can sort it out between themselves.

Senator Mullen spoke about the television licence fee. The Minister has indicated that information should be used by An Post to identify licence fee evaders, and licence fee evasion is an ongoing scourge, as we know. We estimate the proportion of people not paying their television licence fee is running at over 15%, and that is more than three times the rate of our nearest neighbour. That means approximately €25 million to €30 million of potential revenue for RTE is lost annually, as the objective of the television licence system is to fund public service broadcasting. The revenue lost through fee evasion has an immediate impact on the quality of service which can be provided and it also creates inequality between compliant licence holders and evaders. As long ago as 2004, the Comptroller and Auditor General highlighted the fact that there was no legal obligation on cable or satellite television service suppliers to inform An Post of the names and addresses of persons availing of services. Given that ComReg estimates that over 73% of television households have such services, this measures should significantly reduce the level of evasion. An Post will have access to the information solely for this statutory function related to television licence fee collections and the commercial confidentiality of the information will be safeguarded. With this proposal, the licence fee inspection and collection system can enter the 21st century.

The remaining Senators raised matters which I have already addressed. Senator Bradford spoke about the political position in Northern Ireland and I will endeavour to have the Taoiseach come here to discuss the matter in early course. Senator Heffernan spoke about the work of the Leader organisations, which should certainly be lauded for their past work. I am sure the work will be continued by the local development organisations with an input under the local authority umbrella. We have had comprehensive debates in the House on this matter over the last year and when the appropriate Bills came before the House.

I must mention my colleagues, including Senator White. Fianna Fáil has a bit of a brass neck to speak about cuts.

That is pathetic. Why did the Government parties do so badly in the local elections?

Come on. We need to get past that type of nonsense.

The Leader, without interruption.

At the doorsteps people said the Government was far worse than Fianna Fáil.

The Members opposite are smiling because they have realised themselves, as I told people yesterday-----

It is disingenuous.

They are scaremongering.

We are thinking of the results of the local elections. That is why we are so happy.

The Leader, without interruption.

If the Senators will not allow me to reply-----

People were saying the Government is worse than Fianna Fáil.

I know the truth is bitter but they will have to listen.

The Government got its answer on 23 May.

The Leader should not invite trouble.

Senators were told yesterday in the House----

How many European seats does Fianna Fáil hold?

The Leader, without interruption.

I have a point of order.

That was a national election.

I call Senator O'Donovan on a point of order.

I should clarify for the Leader that we are smiling at his exuberance.

I thank the Senator.

That was not a point of order. I ask the Leader not to invite trouble.

His sartorial elegance today is fabulous.

I have no intention of inviting trouble.

I have been provoked from the other side.

The silly season is approaching.

I indicated yesterday that comments on the free travel pass amounted to scaremongering from the other side of the House.

He said that about discretionary medical cards.

There is no question whatever of the travel pass being withdrawn from people.

I told Senators about the review.

The same was said about medical cards.

People clearly did not listen to what went on in the House or else they were not here yesterday.

The Leader, without interruption.

I asked the Leader about it yesterday.

What happened with the medical card review?

The Senators opposite were never very good with freedom of speech and their party tried to restrict it many times.

I ask the Leader not to invite trouble.

A right wing party married to the left wing.

I know Senators do not want to listen but allow me to get a word in and remind them of the cuts introduced by the Fianna Fáil-led Government. It abolished the Christmas bonus and it cut the carer's allowance, disability allowance-----

Wrong. We did not abolish-----

-----the blind allowance, the widow pension-----

What was Fine Gael going to do? It was to reinstate everything.

-----and the invalidity pension.

It was going to reinstate everything but it did nothing.

Fianna Fáil did not cut it once but twice.

What about Fine Gael's promises?

They have a cheek at this stage and a brass neck to speak about this Government's cuts.

What has Fine Gael done since taking office? It has gone even further.

That is the current position, whether Senators like it or not.

Fine Gael has gone even further and Senators do not like it.

I have no intention of letting those opposite shout me down.

We must have order.

I am not shouting down the Leader.

I welcome a former Member to the House. A former Senator, Fergal Browne, is now mayor of Carlow, and he is welcome to the Visitors Gallery.

Senator Denis O'Donovan has moved an amendment to the Order of Business: "That a debate on the removal of the SOLAS €20 weekly training allowance be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Amendment put:
The Seanad divided: Tá, 22; Níl, 26.

  • Barrett, Sean D.
  • Bradford, Paul.
  • Byrne, Thomas.
  • Crown, John.
  • Cullinane, David.
  • Daly, Mark.
  • Heffernan, James.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • MacSharry, Marc.
  • Mooney, Paschal.
  • Mullen, Rónán.
  • Ó Clochartaigh, Trevor.
  • Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
  • O'Brien, Darragh.
  • O'Donovan, Denis.
  • O'Sullivan, Ned.
  • Power, Averil.
  • Quinn, Feargal.
  • Reilly, Kathryn.
  • Walsh, Jim.
  • White, Mary M.
  • Wilson, Diarmuid.

Níl

  • Bacik, Ivana.
  • Brennan, Terry.
  • Burke, Colm.
  • Coghlan, Eamonn.
  • Coghlan, Paul.
  • Comiskey, Michael.
  • Conway, Martin.
  • Cummins, Maurice.
  • D'Arcy, Jim.
  • D'Arcy, Michael.
  • Gilroy, John.
  • Hayden, Aideen.
  • Henry, Imelda.
  • Higgins, Lorraine.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Moloney, Marie.
  • Moran, Mary.
  • Mulcahy, Tony.
  • Mullins, Michael.
  • Noone, Catherine.
  • O'Keeffe, Susan.
  • O'Neill, Pat.
  • Sheahan, Tom.
  • van Turnhout, Jillian.
  • Whelan, John.
  • Zappone, Katherine.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Ned O'Sullivan and Diarmuid Wilson; Níl, Senators Paul Coghlan and Aideen Hayden.
Amendment declared lost.
Question put: "That the Order of Business be agreed to."
The Seanad divided: Tá, 25; Níl, 21.

  • Bacik, Ivana.
  • Brennan, Terry.
  • Burke, Colm.
  • Coghlan, Eamonn.
  • Coghlan, Paul.
  • Comiskey, Michael.
  • Conway, Martin.
  • Cummins, Maurice.
  • D'Arcy, Jim.
  • D'Arcy, Michael.
  • Gilroy, John.
  • Hayden, Aideen.
  • Henry, Imelda.
  • Higgins, Lorraine.
  • Keane, Cáit.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Moran, Mary.
  • Mulcahy, Tony.
  • Mullins, Michael.
  • Noone, Catherine.
  • O'Keeffe, Susan.
  • O'Neill, Pat.
  • Sheahan, Tom.
  • Whelan, John.
  • Zappone, Katherine.

Níl

  • Barrett, Sean D.
  • Byrne, Thomas.
  • Crown, John.
  • Cullinane, David.
  • Daly, Mark.
  • Heffernan, James.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • MacSharry, Marc.
  • Mooney, Paschal.
  • Mullen, Rónán.
  • O'Brien, Darragh.
  • O'Donovan, Denis.
  • O'Sullivan, Ned.
  • Ó Clochartaigh, Trevor.
  • Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
  • Power, Averil.
  • Quinn, Feargal.
  • Reilly, Kathryn.
  • Walsh, Jim.
  • White, Mary M.
  • Wilson, Diarmuid.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Paul Coghlan and Aideen Hayden; Níl, Senators Ned O'Sullivan and Diarmuid Wilson.
Question declared carried.
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