Adjournment Matters

Trade Agreements

Senator David Cullinane

I welcome the Minister, Deputy Richard Bruton. This might strike him as an unusual issue to bring before him in terms of an Adjournment matter, but, as a party, we have tried to get a Dáil debate on this issue and we have been unsuccessful to date.

In spite of formal talks on peace and land reform in Colombia, more than 70 human rights defenders were murdered there this year. Colombia remains one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a trade unionist. NGOs on the ground are statomg that now is not the time to increase trade links. They welcome the peace and the land reform talks, however nothing is set in stone and all is still in flux.

The Colombians want trade but trade that works for them and does not undermine local economies or improve the human rights situation. A human rights report has revealed that in the second half of 2013, the Colombian police were the principal perpetrators of human rights abuses and violations of international humanitarian law. The report concluded that these figures "contradict considerably with the official government discourse which is centred around the consolidation of peace in Colombia". Colombia has experienced more than six decades of violence linked mostly to a deep unresolved agrarian conflict. At the heart of this conflict is land and how power is abused in Colombia. The European Union states there are human rights clauses in the FTA, but human rights must always be included in the Union's free trade agreements and while a violation of human rights by any country could warrant suspension, this has never occurred. Additionally, the free trade agreement does not exactly say what constitutes a significant enough human rights violation to suspend the agreement. Will one murdered trade unionist suspend it? Will ten murdered landless peasants at a protest suspend it? One only has to look at how Israel has conducted its affairs in recent times to see how low the European Union's threshold is for human rights clauses in free trade agreements. Israel indiscriminately bombed Gaza, killing more than 2,188 people, the vast majority of whom were civilians and many children, as the Minister knows, and more than 11,000 people were injured. It committed war crimes, it is a serial human rights abuser and it has continued to violate international law, continues to occupy the Palestinian territories, yet the European Union's foreign trade agreement with Israel is ironically "based on respect for human rights and democratic principles". I think the people of Gaza would dispute that. If the European Union will not cancel an FTA agreement with a country that commits blatant war crimes and human rights violations, it does not hold out much hope that it will do so with Colombia.

Ireland is the only country left to sign an agreement. Effectively, we are asking the Minister to confirm when he will bring this issue to the Dáil or the Seanad. We believe we should have the opportunity to vote on this issue. Does the Minister agree that he should hold an open debate, either in the Seanad or in the Dáil? While it is helpful to raise the matter on the Adjournment, I would imagine there would be many Members of the Oireachtas who would want to have their say on this issue.

I look forward to the Minister's response.

Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation (Deputy Richard Bruton)

I thank the Senator for raising this issue. I am pleased to come before this House to debate this agreement. It is one of a group of agreements between the European Union and Colombia, Peru and, most recently, Ecuador and the Andean countries. The agreement incorporates commitments on human rights, sustainable development and the objective to reduce poverty. This is set out in the first principle of the agreement. It has been provisionally applied by the European Union since August 2013 and has been ratified already by 17 member states.

I should acknowledge the important work done by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, Trócaire and others in highlighting the human rights concerns associated with Colombia and in drawing these concerns to the attention of the international community. The promotion and protection of human rights is a core principle of Irish foreign policy and I believe the provisions of the agreement support this core principle. I believe the provisions of the agreement, including asymmetric trade preferences for the Andean countries and the binding provisions on human rights, labour standards and sustainable development will complement the existing mechanism for multilateral political dialogue, such as the EU human rights dialogue with Colombia.

The international experience is that economic disadvantage and isolation reinforces the potential for human rights concerns. In contrast, engagement with the international community and institutions, in this case the European Union, through trade and political dialogue, promotes both economic and social progress. This agreement provides an enhanced basis for openness, prosperity and accountability for the parties to it. The agreement both legitimises and animates the union in promoting its social and democratic values. It is useful to recall the language in the text of the agreement which relates to human rights. Article 1 of the agreement provides that respect for democratic principles, fundamental human rights, and the principle of the rule of law, are "essential elements" of the agreement. The significance of this is that if one party breaches the "essential elements", the other party would be entitled to adopt proportionate measures without delay. Such measures could include the termination of the agreement, as the Senator has acknowledged.

Title 9 of the agreement contains a legally binding sustainable development chapter, which includes provisions on labour, and the mechanisms through which civil society groups, including trade unions and NGOs, can participate, raise concerns and express views. The parties to the agreement are obliged to review and consider these views. In addition there are domestic advisory groups composed of civil society representatives, which must be consulted and which can also make recommendations on their own initiative. There is provision for regular inter-governmental meetings. These meetings must include an open session where civil society organisations and citizens can directly raise issues. All decisions or reports from these inter-governmental meetings must be public. The sustainable development chapter establishes a specific arbitration system to deal with disagreements on the implementation of its provisions. An independent group of experts can be requested to assess the signatories' fulfilment of their obligations and to issue public reports, on the basis of which an action plan or other corrective action is to be implemented.

Moving to the bilateral level, as this House will be aware, Ireland is an unfailing promoter of human rights. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and his officials, including the embassies on the ground, work closely with our fellow EU member states and the Union's External Action Service to support positive developments in Colombia. This work is aimed at promoting the progressive improvement of human rights standards. In Ireland's bilateral contacts with Colombian authorities - at political and at official levels - we can raise human rights and other issues. We are also able to use these opportunities to acknowledge some positive developments that have been noted by, among others, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights. These include the peace process, with its agenda covering critical areas including agrarian development and political participation - two areas where progress has been secured in the talks during the course of this year. These are very positive developments, for which credit to those involved is due.

In Ireland's engagement as a member of the UN Human Rights Council, we attach priority to issues relating to human rights defenders. We emphasise that civil society organisations need space, that human rights activists must be able to exercise their rights, including freedom of expression, freedom of assembly and association and that states must fulfil their obligation to create an enabling environment allowing non-governmental organisations to make their contribution to the creation or consolidation of rights-respecting democracies.

In an increasingly inter-dependent world, important economic and social benefits can flow from increased international trade. The economic impact in Colombia and Peru and now Ecuador of the free trade agreement with the European Union will be significant and this can, in turn, contribute to the development of more equitable, just and peaceful societies. Economic growth must be made sustainable and equitable through good governance in the form of respect for labour rights, as well as environmental standards, and the full promotion and protection of human rights.

The free trade agreement with Colombia provides for a considerable and robust implementation and monitoring framework through the special intergovernmental trade committee set up under the agreement, together with its eight subcommittees, including the sustainable development subcommittee, all of which should lead to the best possible outcomes for the trade and foreign policy interests reflected in the agreement. The agreement with Colombia represents an opportunity to support sustainable, equitable development. It will be for all of the parties to the agreements to ensure they deliver fully on this potential.

As to the timing of a decision on this matter, it will be brought forward for a decision in a short time. Whether a debate is ordered in the Dáil is a matter for the Whips.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I ask the Senator to be brief.

Senator David Cullinane

This is not just a matter for the Whips; it is the prerogative of the Minister to decide to hold a debate. The Whips' job is to decide the timing of the debate and when it should happen. I am asking the Minister to give a commitment to hold a debate on this issue. The Whips can then work out all of the rest.

What exactly is a violation of human rights? The Minister rightly articulated the principle on human rights that is included in the agreement but that does not respond to the question I asked. I am aware it is customary to give a scripted speech in response, but on the next occasion the Minister might be able to shed some light on the issue. If ten trade unionists were killed, would that constitute a violation of human rights and would it cause the agreement to be suspended? What exactly would constitute a breach and how would the mechanism be trigged and work effectively?

Deputy Richard Bruton

There are mechanisms set out, about which the Senator probably knows. There is a domestic consultative panel, a joint civil society platform and a partners country domestic consultative mechanism, as I outlined in my reply. These have to be done publicly and openly. Where those start to breakdown obviously that triggers a reaction. It depends on the level and each case must be judged on its merits. By having agreement, by engaging with people and by forcing this iterative process, one delivers reform. What the Senator is advocating, which is that we refuse to have such an agreement, is that one steps back. Evidence shows that does not improve the human rights record, does not improve labour rights standards and does not improve environmental standards. It is a question of engaging.

Of course, there is a judgment call as to when one triggers actions. It is not realistic to say that an X, Y or Z occurrence will lead to an automatic red card. That is not realistic. This is a process with civil society, trade unions, NGOs, intergovernmental and domestic consultative processes. By putting those in place one creates a momentum for the delivery of the change we all desire.

The Senator's desire for a checklist and qualifying that once one does something then it is gone, is not the approach that has been taken.

Senator David Cullinane

With respect, it is not what we are advocating.

Deputy Richard Bruton

I am sorry; I thought that was what the Senator was trying to say.

Senator David Cullinane

No, we are looking for a debate.

Deputy Richard Bruton

I think this is the right approach. I believe in trade agreements as a route to open up dialogue form which one can get human rights concessions, labour market proper standards and all the rest of it. That is the route to go. Of course, there is rightful anxieties about human rights. They are absolutely justified and we will pursue them at every level. Having such an agreement and having the consultative mechanisms that underpin it are worth putting in place. Let us try to win progress through the agreement.

Broadband Service Provision

Senator Mark Daly

I welcome the Minister of State and thank him for taking the question on broadband provision nationwide and in Kerry. He is well aware of the difficulties in rural areas regarding broadband. I am sure he is aware of the fact that 30% of trade is now done over the Internet, yet only 10% of Irish companies seem to have a presence and an ability to sell over the Internet. A large part of this is due to an ineffective broadband system throughout the country and in rural Ireland it is a major impediment.

The focus of my concern is not only the lack of broadband but broadband speed. One study has shown that the speed of broadband and fibre optic networks in Ireland is less than 1% while the OECD average is 9.6%. A fibre optic network can lead to potential savings in the four main economic areas of electricity, transportation, education and health, but, as I have said, the fibre optic network here has been less than poor.

With regard to the speed of our network at 10 MBps, the Irish network is just over 10% whereas in the United Kingdom it ranges in the high 30s to the mid-40s in percentage terms of their ability to get 10 MBps or more. We have a number of proposals. One proposal is like the rural electrification or group water schemes where communities could put in ducting which accounts for 90% of the cost of installing a fibre optic network. That is the future-proof way of having a better network.

We all know about the difficulties encountered when installing masts in rural areas. The Minister of State knows that communities, such as those in his area, are quite willing to install fibre optic networks given that the tools, mechanism and money could be put in at a reasonably inexpensive cost relative to the State installing same. In the same way as rural water schemes were installed by communities, the ducting could be done which accounts for 90% of the cost of a fibre optic network. If the network is installed by a private contractor or the State, there is no doubt it would be done at a huge expense and enormous waste.

Rural broadband provision and broadband provision in general are a source of concern in Kerry, but they are also a concern in Donegal because such services are used for commerce throughout the world, increasingly so. However, small businesses and communities around Ireland - in Kerry, Donegal and elsewhere - do not have access to adequate broadband. In some cases they do not have access to broadband.

Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Joe McHugh)

I thank the Senator for tabling the question. Broadband is a subject close to my heart and he is right that people in Donegal faces the same challenges as in Kerry. I welcome the opportunity to address the Seanad on the matter.

The State only intervenes in the competitive telecommunications market where there is evidence of clear market failure and such intervention is always subject to EU state aid approval. The national broadband scheme was one such intervention.

Let me be clear on this matter: there is no question of services being withdrawn following the ending of the scheme. 3 has confirmed that, following the expiry of the scheme, it will continue to provide coverage throughout national broadband scheme areas on a commercial basis, and that customers should see no change to the level of service or speeds provided by 3. It has also announced plans to extend 4G coverage across all of the NBS coverage areas within the next three years offering significantly faster mobile broadband speeds.

I understand that former NBS customers who choose to stay with 3 can avail of the same choice of broadband plans and tariffs as those offered by it in non-NBS areas. Furthermore, there is now a choice of commercial operators offering broadband services over a diverse range of technology platforms throughout much of the area previously covered by the NBS.

Through the national broadband plan, the Government aims to ensure that high speed broadband is available to all citizens and businesses in Ireland. This is being achieved through a combination of commercial investment and the development of a State-led intervention for non-commercial areas.

The commercial sector is currently investing approximately €2.5 billion in new infrastructure and services. These investments are delivering high speed broadband to homes and businesses across Ireland for whom low speeds would have been the norm just two years ago. The pace of investment is encouraging and is having tangible impacts on communities across Ireland.

The Government has made clear its intention to ensure all citizens and businesses can access high-speed services, regardless of where they are located. The national broadband plan, therefore, aims to supplement the significant commercial investments with a State-led intervention in the areas where commercial investment is not forthcoming.

The Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources is finalising a mapping exercise which will identify the precise areas of commercial investment and those areas that require a State-led intervention. The Minister and I intend to publish a series of interactive maps later this year for public consultation where operators and citizens can give feedback, with a view to ensuring that we correctly identified all of the areas requiring intervention. These maps will be dynamic and subject to change as future commercial investments are announced or rolled out.

Publication of the maps represents an important milestone in the overall project. It will feed into a detailed implementation strategy which will be of published in 2015, in tandem with an application for EU state aid approval. The detailed plan will be the subject of a full public consultation and we will move quickly thereafter into formal procurement for a winning bidder or bidders to build the network.

The proposed State-led intervention will involve a substantial network build-out which will be capable of carrying even higher broadband speeds, as new and more bandwidth-demanding services emerge. It will extend to locations in every county in the State identified as having no current or planned high speed network.

This challenging programme is being progressed as a priority project within my Department. The national broadband plan, which is being progressed in stages, will deliver quality, high-speed connectivity to meet the needs of present and future generations in all parts of Ireland.

Senator Mark Daly

I thank the Minister of State for the reply. My concern is that customers will not see a change in the level of service or speeds provided by 3. Reports from many areas indicate that speeds have been reduced, and if such speeds remain, that will not be helpful. The concern is that 3 has stated it will not improve the level of service or speeds.

I understand the Government proposes to apply for EU aid in 2015, but it will be 2016 before some of the areas in the Minister of State's constituency, as well as parts of Kerry, will see any funding and 2017 before improved service is a reality. Approximately 90% of the cost of installing a fibre optic network is accounted for by the ducting system, and if communities are capable of installing a water network in their area, they are also capable of putting in the ducting required for a fibre optic cable. This would ensure they would get broadband services much more quickly than the current projections. I fear that the timelines referred to will not be met and that the areas that need broadband the most will not be connected any time soon. Connectivity with the world should mean that a person working on the Stock Exchange can do that work from Inishowen or Valentia island, where the quality of life is much better than in places like London. This is not possible, however, because such areas do not have access to high speed broadband. The commercial network operators are not providing such access, and while the Government intends to provide access to high speed broadband where it will not be provided by commercial entities, the timeline for this is far too long.

Deputy Joe McHugh

We are on the same page when it comes to the importance of broadband. The Senator alluded to the rural electrification programme in the 1920s and we are in a similar space now in that broadband has become the new electricity in terms of its importance. There are demands for service in rural areas and it is important we reassure customers of 3 that the service they currently receive will continue.

Wearing my other hat as Aire Stáit gnóthaí Gaeltachta, I have started a dialogue between the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht through Údaras na Gaeltachta on how to move this issue forward. I have also had discussions with my party colleague from Kerry, Deputy Brendan Griffin. I would be interested in hearing the Senator's views on how we can progress matters. I know the Gaeltacht does not cover all of Kerry, but an organisation such as Údaras na Gaeltachta has a very important role to play in terms of trying to attract businesses to the industrial estates and páirceanna gnó in rural Ireland. I know that some companies provide their own broadband, but not every company is in a position to do that. There are massive challenges in all of this.

The Senator referred to the possibility of communities building their own ducting. A group based in the north west called ERNACT made a presentation some months ago to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement and referred to Sweden as an example of such a model operating in practice. That information was relayed to the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, and I have had discussions with the Minister, Deputy Alex White, about the new national broadband plan. The Minister is quite serious about it and committed to it. It is important we make that big leap that is needed, similar to the one taken in the 1920s - an léim mor chun tosaigh. A big leap is needed and I am interested in working with the Senator on any suggestions he may have for Kerry. Counties Kerry and Donegal are unique in some respects, although they and have similar strengths and weaknesses and face similar challenges. We had our differences a number of weeks ago, but we in Donegal will get over that.

Senator Mark Daly

I was quite happy with that result.

Deputy Joe McHugh

I am prepared to work with the Senator because we must feed into the conversation.

Schools Building Projects Status

Senator Thomas Byrne

I will start by congratulating the Minister for Education and Skills on her appointment. During one of our last Adjournment debates in the House when she was a Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, I predicted that she would be promoted to the Cabinet. She got good news-----

Minister for Education and Skills (Deputy Jan O'Sullivan)

I hold the Senator personally responsible.

Senator Thomas Byrne

-----and I hope she will return the favour and give me good news today.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

The Senator is expecting a favourable response.

Senator Thomas Byrne

I am hopeful of a favourable response from the Minister who is doing very well in her job so far. I wish her every success in her role, which is a very important portfolio.

I was contacted recently by my party colleague, Councillor Damien O'Reilly, who has met parents and the board of management of St. Peter's national school in Dunboyne, a relatively new school which has been in temporary accommodation on a temporary site for quite some time. The Minister is aware of the details of this case and it is long past time for this school to get a permanent building. The school has done tremendous work in the area and is unique in terms of its establishment in modern times. Having discussed this matter with the Minister previously, I know she is positively disposed and I look forward to her response.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I thank the Senator for raising this matter. St. Peter's national school, Dunboyne, County Meath, is an English-medium, coeducational school under the patronage of the Church of Ireland Bishop of Meath and Kildare. The school is located in prefabricated accommodation on a temporary site. The Department has been made aware that this site has recently become restricted due to construction work under way on part of the land adjacent to where the temporary school is located. The process of acquiring a site for permanent accommodation for St. Peter's national school is under way.

A possible site option was identified and assessment of this site by members of the Department's technical and professional staff deemed it suitable for development of permanent accommodation for the school. Further to the technical assessment, departmental officials commenced negotiations to acquire the site and these negotiations are ongoing. Due to the commercial sensitivities associated with land acquisitions generally, it is not possible to provide further information at this time. Officials from my Department have been in contact with the relevant school authorities to keep them apprised of the status of the acquisition process. When the site has been acquired, the Department will be in a position to progress the school project concerned to the architectural planning stage.

I assure the Senator that officials from my Department are aware of the current situation with regard to the temporary site and the need to acquire a site for permanent accommodation as soon as possible and are working hard to achieve this. I thank the Senator for giving me the opportunity to outline the current position on St. Peter's national school.

Senator Thomas Byrne

I thank the Minister for her reply and I am glad to hear that substantial work is ongoing regarding the school. I fully appreciate and understand the commercial sensitivities surrounding land acquisition and believe that politicians should avoid discussing that issue in the context of schools. The Minister appreciates the urgency of this matter. The school is under the patronage of the Church of Ireland and is the only such school to have opened in recent times, as I understand it. It performs a very important role. Many of the schools in the area have been provided with new buildings and new accommodation, although I am not suggesting that everything is perfect in County Meath. While I would not go so far as to say St. Peter's national school has been left behind, it has not been the prime focus of the Department in the context of south County Meath. I would like to see the Minister give the school the focus it deserves and I am confident she will do so. I look forward to progress being made. I hope that by raising this matter in the Seanad, I can help to move matters along. I am aware that some of my party colleagues intend to raise the issue in the Dáil and that Councillor Damien O'Reilly will be raising it at local and national level.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I again assure the Senator that we are very much aware that there is a particular issue with the current site and that we need to move on this issue as quickly as possible. I appreciate the fact the Senator accepts that I cannot give him details of the land acquisition process. I share his view that politicians should stay away from that element of it, but I assure him that we recognise the urgency of this case.

The Seanad adjourned at 7.20 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 2 October 2014.

Seanad Éireann debate - Wednesday, 1 Oct 2014