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Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 31 Mar 2015

Vol. 239 No. 3

Commencement Matters

Local Improvement Scheme Funding

I thank the Minister for being in the Chamber to take this matter. I appreciate his attendance and taking the time from his busy schedule.

The issue in hand is the local improvement scheme which has been raised with me not only by people who live in the area I come from but also by local councillors. The scheme is the method by which people living in rural areas have roads replaced where they are not serviced by council roads. The purpose of the scheme is to provide funding for roads and laneways that councils have not taken in charge, in other words, private roads. It is welcome that the scheme was reopened in the past few years and that people living along private roads and lanes have some recourse to funding assistance, but there are issues with the funding of the scheme. Demand outweighs supply and the pressure on the public roads funding allocated to local authorities means that some councils cannot use their funding for the purpose of distributing funding to local improvement schemes. It is important that we try to find some way to deal with the endless number of people waiting for the primary provision of roads to their dwelling houses. Are there creative ideas in the Department, whereby councils can receive additional funding for these purposes?

The scheme was reopened in the past few years, but that does not mean additional funding has been provided. There is leeway for a council to use a percentage of its budget for work on non-public roads, but having the leeway to do so and it being practical within current budgetary constraints and demands on the public roads budget are two different things. Obviously, public roads should take priority and a number of roads in my county were in dire need of funding, not least for reasons of public safety. However, that means there was no flexibility to provide the funding people living along these roads and lanes needed or deserved under the local improvement scheme. They are not seeking funding for cosmetic reasons and to make roads look better but for genuine reasons in order that they can have access to their homes or small family farms. I know of one man and the lane along which he is living is in such bad condition that, if there is any rainfall, he is blocked in by flooding. He is elderly and cannot meet the cost of repairs himself. Councillors are seeking ring-fenced funding in order that they will not be dependent on having to allocate a certain percentage of funding already needed elsewhere.

As I stated, many councillors find they cannot justify taking funding from the existing provision because this money is needed for public roads. They believe members of the community are being pitted against each other. While I agree with a previous statement by the Minister that local authorities, with their community base and local knowledge, are best placed to judge the priority of works on private roads, those that wish to use the local improvement scheme should not be placed in a position of having to use resources that would be otherwise deployed for investment in regional and local public roads. Specific and additional funding should be ring-fenced for works on private roads. If funding was provided by way of an increase in standard roads funding, councillors would prefer to decide in council chambers whether to allocate moneys to the local improvement scheme.

Members of Cavan County Council and Sinn Féin have called on the Government to provide the money needed to fund local improvement schemes. I understand councillors sought a meeting with the Minister to discuss the issue, which was the source of great contention at a recent meeting of the county council.

I thank the Senator for raising this matter. As Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, I have responsibility for overall policy and funding for the national roads programme. The planning, design and implementation of individual road projects is a matter for the National Roads Authority, NRA, under the Roads Acts 1993 to 2007, in conjunction with the local authorities concerned. The improvement and maintenance of regional and local roads is the statutory responsibility of each local authority in accordance with the provisions of section 13 of the Roads Act 1993. Works on these roads are funded from local authorities' own resources supplemented by State road grants. The initial selection and prioritisation of works to be funded is also a matter for the local authority.

As a result of the national financial position, Exchequer funding for Ireland's roads has fallen radically. Funding in 2008 was €2.3 billion, while funding this year for national, regional and local roads stands at €728 million. The reality is that available funds do not match the amount of work required. For this reason, the main focus must be on the maintenance and repair of public roads. This will continue to be the position for some years to come.

The local improvement scheme to which the Senator referred provides funding for non-public roads and laneways that have not been taken in charge by a council. However, the maintenance and improvement of these roads is a matter for the relevant landowner. Given the financial position, there is no separate allocation for the local improvement scheme. Instead, local authorities may use up to 15% of their initial discretionary grant towards local improvement schemes should they wish to do so. The local contribution for these schemes is 20% of the total cost of the project.

It is open to local authorities to supplement the percentage of the discretionary grant they can use for the local improvement schemes with their own resources. As I indicated, the purpose of Exchequer grants is to supplement the resources of local authorities. It is also a matter for a local authority to agree and prioritise its work programme for the year.

My Department is gathering statistics from local authorities on the local improvement scheme. Of the 19 local authorities that have responded thus far, only four decided to avail of the local improvement scheme in 2014. I note that Cavan County Council availed of the scheme and completed four local improvement projects in 2014. It is my understanding the majority of local authorities opt to focus funding on public roads. Local authorities are best placed to judge the priority of works on private roads. In this way, they may decide whether they want to operate the local improvement scheme in their area or would prefer to put their resources into regional and local public roads.

If a separate fund were to be set aside for the local improvement scheme, it would involve making a pro rata reduction to the other road grants headings and imposing the scheme on local authorities that would prefer to prioritise public roads. I do not favour such an approach.

Sale of Aer Lingus

I welcome our good friend, the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport. He and I discussed issues of aviation economics many times when he was my student in Trinity College Dublin. My concern in this instance is repeated announcements that the Government is edging closer to accepting the proposed takeover of Aer Lingus. I was pleased to note the Minister's statement during his visit to County Kerry at the weekend that he welcomed Mr. Donald Trump's contribution to the debate on the proposal. The takeover would be in the interests of British Airways and IAG and we know the Aer Lingus board wants it to proceed. This does not mean it would be in the interest of wider society.

I am particularly concerned that British Airways has not developed any routes on the north Atlantic from Scotland, a country with a population of 5.3 million people, the north of England, a region with a population of approximately 15 million, and Birmingham, which is located in the UK midlands with a population of approximately ten million between the east and west Midlands. British Airways could be called "Air Heathrow" given that it continuously channels traffic through Heathrow Airport. In contrast, Aer Lingus has developed nine north Atlantic routes. I am not convinced British Airways will pursue different policies in Ireland from those it pursues in Britain if it takes over Aer Lingus.

A major part of the disquiet in Scotland is that, to use the words of a Member of the Scottish Parliament, Angus McNeil of the Scottish Nationalist Party, "there has been a historic imbalance in UK aviation policy that has held back Scottish airports and the development of direct international links". This is a factor in the forthcoming election in the United Kingdom. CAPA Consulting, an Australian economic consultancy, examined aviation in Manchester and made the following conclusion under the heading, "Lack of a home-based carrier restricts route opportunities":

British Airways is clearly not going to help, at least under the present management. Over the course of the last two decades, what was a fit-for-purpose BA Regional operation at both Manchester and Birmingham airports was whittled down...

If we give up a valued national airline headquartered in Dublin to become a subsidiary of British Airways, can we expect the company to treat us better than it has treated regions in the United Kingdom?

As the Minister is aware, in an open European market, airline companies are free to enter any route in Ireland. I would welcome a decision by British Airways to enter the Irish market but not if the price is the acquisition of Aer Lingus. The only destination to which British Airways operates from Dublin Airport, with its 175 routes, is London. The company does not operate any routes from Cork, Shannon, Knock or Kerry airports, which operate 41, 30, 12 and six routes, respectively, and flies to only one of the 190 destinations served by airports in Northern Ireland. This track record does not reflect the undertakings the company has given us.

The Industrial Development Agency put the matter most succinctly in its evidence to the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications when it stated: "Ireland needs frequent, direct and competitively priced flights to multiple destinations in the United Kingdom, the United States and Europe". This is not what is on offer from IAG. We need access for the tourism, high-tech and financial services industries. Scotland, Manchester and Birmingham do not have such access and there is no reason IAG will provide it at an Irish airport.

On the issue of the Heathrow Airport slots, the IAG website states that on 30 March 2012, the company divested 12 slots on taking over British Midland. Having knowingly given away 12 slots as part of the acquisition of British Midland in 2012, the company now states it will protect Aer Lingus's Heathrow slots for five or seven years. It knows it must give up slots because doing so is part of the standard EU procedure for dealing with anti-competitive mergers.

I welcome the finding of an opinion poll on the proposed takeover published in a newspaper yesterday. It showed that we have made the case against the proposed takeover in the face of overwhelming odds and public relations work by the airlines. I note that 54% of respondents did not want the proposal to proceed, while the first opinion poll on the issue found 58% of people opposed the proposal. Among supporters of the Minister's party, 33% were found to be in favour of the takeover, while 50% opposed it. The majority against is even larger among supporters of the Labour Party, Sinn Féin, Independents and the Fianna Fáil Party.

This merger is not wanted and Mr. Walsh and company should be told to pack their bags and go. We want this independent airline.

I thank the Senator for raising this matter in the way he has today and in recent weeks. I am constrained in my ability to respond to a number of the points put to me by him. He is now used to this refrain, but because a takeover period has been declared, I am restrained in responding to some of the more detailed points made. I wish, however, to frame what is happening in the context of the development of aviation and aviation policy. These are matters in which the Senator is a genuine expert. As I have outlined from the very start of the process, connectivity and the future of Aer Lingus are important issues in which there is a great deal of public interest which has been heightened since the first proposed offer for Aer Lingus from IAG three months ago. I last addressed the Seanad on this matter on 28 February, but, as I have said, I am constrained in what I can say.

The Senator has spent a good part of his successful career as an economist championing the merits of market forces over Government intervention, particularly in the aviation sector. His work has highlighted the benefits of applying the so-called invisible hand of the market to previously State-dominated sectors such as aviation and his research has provided ample evidence during the years of the failures of State intervention in the market in Ireland and abroad. On the other hand, his work has also highlighted the benefits market liberalisation has brought as a whole. The aviation sector was a good case study for the Senator to have chosen. It is one of the best examples of the benefits that accrue when a monopolistic, State-dominated industry is gradually opened to competition. An important part of that process has been the reduction of State ownership in the sector. Most European states have now divested themselves of airline shareholdings and, in some cases, the state-owned airline no longer exists. However, there are still some significant state shareholdings such as our own in Aer Lingus.

The first significant deregulation of aviation took place in the United States. Since 1992 the European aviation market has been fully open for all EU airlines. It has been a genuine win-win for all concerned. Consumers, airlines and the wider economy have all reaped benefits in increased routes and connectivity and the significant lowering of prices for consumers. The Senator pointed to the issue of regional connectivity in the United Kingdom. The whole point of the open market is that any such gaps should be quickly filled by competitors. I suggest to the Senator that Aer Lingus's strategy of bringing traffic from UK regions through Ireland on transatlantic routes is a good example of this approach.

In terms of the structure of the airline industry, the opening up of the market has led to two trends. First, new operators such as Ryanair have expanded to become truly European airlines. Second, among legacy carriers, a process of cross-border consolidation has led to the emergence of three main multi-airline groups in Europe - IAG, Lufthansa and Air France-KLM. When Aer Lingus was State-owned, as the Senator is aware, it had to be heavily supported by the taxpayer on a number of occasions. That option is no longer available, which is partly why the State chose to sell its majority shareholding in 2006 in order that it could have access to capital to fund its growth. The company has had many ups and downs, but in recent years it has returned to profitability. That is the reason I wish to reiterate to the Senator that the Government's underlying position on its shareholding is that it will not be sold unless the terms of the sale are satisfactory to the Government and an acceptable price is secured.

Legitimate concerns have been voiced by many people, including the Senator, about lAG's proposed offer and the Government has outlined the details and clarification it needs from IAG in that regard. The interdepartmental group has continued discussions with IAG. I have made it clear that I wish to see this matter brought to a conclusion within a number of weeks. The ongoing engagement with IAG is taking place in that context and my representatives and I are fully focused on that objective. The outcome of this work will be examined very carefully by the Government against a set of public interest criteria before making any decision. Connectivity, including connectivity to the regions, and employment are exceptionally high among these criteria, as I have outlined on many occasions. I welcome the opportunity to respond to the Senator on this point and look forward to continuing to do so.

I thank the Minister, as always, for engaging in dialogue. The Seanad has a huge role to play in this matter. Part of my disquiet is that the media leaks seem to be bypassing Parliament as if it did not matter. Some of the utterances have been dismissive of the Deputies and Senators from north Dublin, Cork and, of course, County Clare. It should be remembered that there was deregulation because there was a parliamentary revolt in 1984 by seven Deputies, four from Fine Gael and three from Fianna Fáil - one of whom was half out of Fianna Fáil.

In the preface to a book I wrote on this matter Alfred Khan said I was the expert on the Ryanair model and the revolutionary impact on aviation in Europe. He also documented in this volume the almost equally dramatic successful adaptation of Aer Lingus from a traditional European national carrier to operating in the new deregulated market, in contrast with other former national airlines in Europe which had either left the market or been absorbed by larger carriers. Being absorbed by larger carriers has not been in the interests of services to UK regions, including Wales, Scotland, the north of England and the midlands. I do not want that fate to befall us. The former Taoiseach, Mr. John Bruton, asked me to go on the tourist board, a place where I kept praying for airline deregulation. The Aer Lingus product was so good and still is that for many North Americans their holiday began when they boarded the aircraft. Someone once said that it began even before this in the Aer Lingus lounge. It is an iconic product. British Airways does not have this status and we would be wrong to sell the company to it. It is not worth doing so for the €300 million suggested to the Department of Finance, half of which would go to the troika.

I think of the vision of Seán Lemass who had aeroplanes ready to go in 1948, but the then Government cancelled them. That happened during the month of April and I hope we will not sell the airline this April, as it has such a role to play. Let us have a vision for the country. Aer Lingus is part of that vision; British Airways-IAG is not. In another jurisdiction services have been closed down at Barcelona to be transferred to Madrid. The hub and spoke model will not suit us. I want Dublin Airport competing with Heathrow Airport and Aer Lingus competing with British Airways. I do not want it to be part of it and do not want it to be subsumed by it. If the Aer Lingus board does not want to be independent, it should go. We need people with vision to develop the airline, not to sell it to British Airways.

I again thank the Senator for his points. He articulates the need for a vision for the development of aviation. There is a vision and the fruits of its delivery are clear in the extraordinary access the country has managed to deliver in recent years. This did not happen by chance. It happened because the Government, in particular, prioritised access. This prioritisation has underpinned decisions such as on the reduction of the airport travel tax to zero.

The Senator used the language of giving up on Aer Lingus. I have to emphasise a point to the House. We are aware of it, but sometimes it is not given the prominence it deserves. We no longer own all of Aer Lingus. We own just over one quarter of the company. It is not a State-owned national airline. We have a minority stake in it. On the arguments the Senator made about the merits of national ownership, we need to take on board the point that just under 75% of the company was sold.

On the further points the Senator made about leaks and indications as to where the Government is going, I assure him that we are weighing up very carefully how we intend to handle this matter. No decision has been made on that matter and I am not in the business of briefing others about my thinking on it in advance of briefing the Cabinet, let alone the Houses of the Oireachtas. When we make the decision on that matter, I will have to take it to my Cabinet colleagues and there will be debate on it in the Dáil and the Seanad.

I will conclude on a particular matter. The Senator made a very important point about the maintenance of our regional airports and regional access. I am the Minister who made the decision to retain public service obligation, PSO, funding for Donegal and Kerry airports. I did that for policy-based reasons. This is the Government that has found ways to develop access into Shannon Airport and continues to invest a huge amount of time and energy in how we support Cork and Shannon Airports. I recognise these airports have particular needs. I realise also that the access they have built up is an incredibly important contributor to the development not only of tourism across the island but also in creating an environment in which we can attract international investment to the country and where Irish companies can sell their goods and services abroad. That need has been evident in decisions I made with regard to other airports since I came into office and it will continue to be paramount in the way I review this proposed bid.

Nursing Staff Recruitment

I thank the Minister for coming into the House to deal with this matter. The issue I raise concerns the training courses available for nurses who have trained abroad but who now wish to return. I am led to believe the number of courses available in recent years has been cut back and that the number available is inadequate. Irish nursing homes have over 500 vacancies for nurses and they are finding it difficult to recruit nurses to fill those vacancies. Some nurses who want to return are finding it difficult to go on the adaption courses and unless they do this, they cannot become registered. There is also an issue in regard to delays in registering with An Bord Altranais, but that is a different issue.

I am sorry, but the Senator can only discuss what is on the Commencement matters list.

I am aware of that. The issue that must be dealt with is increasing the number of places on the adaption courses for nurses who have trained abroad but who wish to work here to allow them go through the training process and then become available to work in Irish hospitals and nursing homes.

The other issue facing nursing homes is that many of the nurses working in them are taking on jobs in the Health Service Executive, HSE. The HSE can now recruit for the first time in a number of years and some of the people who have been working in nursing homes for a number of years are returning to work in HSE hospitals or community hospitals. The nursing homes are facing that problem from both sides. On the one side they are losing nurses and on the other side they do not have an adequate number of training places for those who want to come and work in this country.

I thank the Senator for raising this matter. The background to this issue is that nurses who trained in a country outside of Ireland and wish to work in Ireland are required to apply to register as a nurse with the Nursing and Midwifery Board of Ireland, NMBI The NMBI, following assessment of qualifications by an applicant, may require an applicant to undertake a six-week period of adaptation and assessment. A period of adaptation is designed to make up for differences in education and ensure competence for working in the Irish health service. If this adaptation is required it must be successfully completed as a prerequisite to registration.

In 2014, the HSE facilitated 151 nurses to complete a period of adaptation for the private nursing home sector. In 2015, as part of a pilot project, the HSE has scheduled additional clinical adaptation programmes. These will take place in April, June and August for the private nursing home sector. A maximum of 197 places will be offered on these programmes for which there are currently 60 nurses identified. The pilot project is due to finish in October 2015. In addition, separate initiatives to meet the demand for adaptation programmes for the public health sector have recently been commenced, and these are being co-ordinated and managed by the hospitals concerned.

I am advised there is an anticipated need for 272 clinical adaptation placements based on projected workforce needs outside the planned 2015 provision for the private nursing home sector. There is no capacity for additional placements onto the nationally co-ordinated clinical adaptation programme developed for private nursing homes. There are 42 health service locations approved by the NMBI for the provision of clinical adaptation programmes. Current difficulties do not relate to the number of sites but rather to the pressure on front-line services to facilitate clinical adaptation such as the availability of clinical facilitators to co-ordinate and manage clinical placements and oversee and monitor the assessment process.

I understand alternative approaches for the provision of clinical adaptation are being explored. However, any options that may arise from this initiative will not bring any benefit in the short term. Therefore, there still remains a requirement to provide adaptation programmes. Discussions on the issue among Nursing Homes Ireland, the HSE office for nursing and midwifery services and the Chief Nursing Officer's office are scheduled to discuss this matter in the coming weeks.

I thank the Minister for the reply. I note that there is an acceptance that there is a need for additional training positions. It is a major problem within nursing homes. It is also a major problem within hospitals. Some Irish nurses contacted me recently who trained in the United Kingdom and who returned to Ireland. They applied in early December to register but ten weeks later they were still not registered with An Bord Altranais. That is an issue that needs to be resolved also. On the one hand, we have the shortage and, on the other, we are not responding fast enough to that shortage. The Minister's reply is open and honest in terms of dealing with the issues, but it is a problem that must be given priority to make sure we do not fall into a situation where beds in nursing homes cannot be filled because we do not have the nursing staff. As a result, there is a backlog in the hospital system.

As I understand it, Irish trained nurses do not have to do an adaption course but they do have to re-register with the NMBI if they allow their registration to lapse. There have been some delays in processing applications for all sorts of reasons, not entirely administrative delays, but I am certainly aware of the issue. It is the case that we are in quite a different position than where we were a year ago and thought we would be at this point in time. The HSE will increase the total number of general nurses working for it by 500 this year and at the same time the nursing home sector is growing also. Therefore, there is a greater demand for nurses than was the case this time last year, more so than had been expected. That is causing difficulties but it also means that in some cases the HSE is hiring nurses off the nursing homes. The nursing homes are trying to take nurses off the HSE and the agencies are involved in the whole show also. It is something I am aware of, as is the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch. We are meeting with Nursing Homes Ireland on Thursday to try to discuss solutions. We are aware of it, but like many of these issues, the solutions may not be as straightforward as they may appear. However, we will find them.

I appreciate the Minister's response.

Drug Treatment Programmes Availability

I, too, welcome the Minister and thank him for coming to discuss a very serious issue concerning the HSE drugs counselling services and programmes for those under 18 years in Dundalk. I have been in contact with local people who are acutely aware of the situation since the closure in December last of the drugs counselling services for those under 18 years and I am led to believe the Dundalk area has no HSE drugs counselling service for the under 18s category.

I was speaking to local gardaí as recently as today about this matter and they are very concerned at the lack of services for young people. It is testament to the efforts of gardaí and juvenile liaison officers, JLOs, in the area that they are working above and beyond the call of duty. Gardaí want to work tirelessly to help young people stay out of the criminal justice system, but it becomes more difficult when the first port of call, the drugs counselling service, is not available. Drug use and addiction continue to be major local issues; therefore, we should provide the supports and services necessary to assist young people in their recovery from addiction.

I am led to believe the biggest local problem is the use of benzodiazepines, benzos. People are buying them on the Internet on which they are openly on sale. Because of the amounts people are taking, they are causing serious health problems. Compared to when ecstasy tabs were popular, benzos are causing a completely different reaction where users actually appear to be unaware of what is happening to them. This is making it more difficult for people like the juvenile liaison officers to help them. I am aware of one case in which a 17 year old refuses to admit that he has a problem and has, unfortunately, been removed from the family home. As the juvenile liaison officer said to me, normally the first port of call would be the drugs counselling service before seeking further help. When drugs counselling is not available, the juvenile liaison officer's hands are tied.

We all know from our early teen years that they are the most vulnerable. It is recognised that second year in school is the most important in determining which way a student will go. If we do not have the drug counselling services needed in place for young people, we are adding to what is a growing problem. It is imperative that we have appropriate services available which are easily accessible. Private counselling services may be available, but many parents in this predicament with their under-18s do not have private health insurance, nor can they afford to access it.

I ask the Minister to outline why the service was discontinued in the Dundalk area at the end of last year. I also ask him to outline the future plans for drug counselling services for the under-18 age group and specifically the future of the service in Dundalk. The service being sought locally would not be full time; people are not looking for a service from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. five days a week, rather they are looking for a service, perhaps one day a week, with a two-hour slot at which young people could be directed by those trying to help them when they could receive the appropriate help they so badly need.

I thank the Senator for raising this important matter in the House. The overall strategic aim of the national drugs strategy is to tackle the harm caused to individuals and society by the misuse of drugs, through a concerted focus on the five pillars of supply reduction, prevention, treatment, rehabilitation and research. Within this framework, the HSE is committed to achieving improved outcomes for people affected by addiction issues. Regarding the specific issue raised by the Senator, I am advised by the HSE that the under-18 counselling service in Dundalk is still in place. HSE-funded services such as the ISPCC teen focus programme, Turas counselling service and the Meath Jigsaw initiative provide support for young people presenting with substance misuse issues in Dundalk and the wider catchment area. The HSE addiction services in counties Louth and Meath refer appropriate cases for residential treatment and link with the HSE specialist adolescent services in Dublin. Staff work with parents and guardians on young peoples' substance misuse and liaise with and provide support for services working directly with the young people concerned.

The HSE commissioned a review of the Dundalk addiction services last year to determine whether the model of care was adequate to address service user needs and examine the adequacy of clinical governance arrangements underpinning service delivery. This included a review of the model of service organisation in the Louth-Meath area. The review team comprised an external consultant psychiatrist, a GP co-ordinator from HSE addiction services and a general manager from the office of the integrated service area manager, Louth-Meath primary care services. The review was completed earlier this year.

The report concluded that the existing model of service delivery in Louth-Meath needed to be strengthened in the light of the changing profile of substance misuse in the north east, to which the Senator referred. It recommended a number of structural changes to bring service provision in Louth-Meath into line with national addiction services. The changes recommended include the augmentation of the HSE team with specialist senior clinical personnel, restructuring management roles to allow for an appropriate demarcation between operational and clinical management and a review of roles and responsibilities of HSE staff. The report recommended the development of formal shared care working arrangements for service users in line with the national drugs rehabilitation framework and full implementation and monitoring of the needle exchange programme. It highlighted the need for a model of care to respond to the needs of young people dependent on drugs other than heroin.

The HSE is committed to implementing the recommendations made in the report and, as a first step in this process, has shared the report with the relevant staff to obtain their views and feedback on the issues raised. An implementation plan will then be put in place to address the issues raised in the report. The Government takes the issue of drug misuse extremely seriously and is committed to tackling the problem through all available mechanisms. My Department is beginning work on the development of a new national drugs strategy for the period from 2016 onwards. I intend to play an active role in the development of the new strategy and look forward to engaging with all interested parties in this work.

I thank the Minister for his reply. Unfortunately, I can tell him categorically that the HSE service on Market Street, Dundalk which dealt specifically with under-18s ceased before Christmas. I ask that he look into this matter. Telling somebody who is living at the far end of County Louth, has a drug problem and does not have support at home to attend the Meath Jigsaw programme is causing a huge problem, even in terms of the provision of transport. Gardaí and juvenile liaison officers would not come to show their concern if they did not think it was huge problem. I, therefore, ask the Minister to look at this issue again and get a straight answer to the question. Other providers are involving private counselling services, but many of the people caught up in this issue cannot afford to do so. Gardaí are seriously worried about the matter.

I will certainly ask my officials to check specifically on the service on Market Street. It is always a possibility that the information I have been given is incorrect. Given the scale and breadth of the health portfolio, it is just not possible for me to be au fait with every individual service in every town and county at relatively short notice. I will ask my officials to look into the matter and I come back to the Senator later in the week with a full reply by way of correspondence.

I thank the Minister and the Senator.

Sitting suspended at 3.20 p.m. and resumed at 3.30 p.m.
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