Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 13 Jan 2016

Vol. 245 No. 1

Commencement Matters

Roads Maintenance

Senator Marc MacSharry

I wish everybody a happy new year.

I welcome the Minister. This matter relates to Four Masters Bridge and Lennox Bridge which connect Kinlough in north County Leitrim to Bundoran and Ballyshannon in County Donegal. Lennox Bridge is a single lane bridge that has been in place for many years. It is cracked and the most recent head-on collision on it happened last weekend. On this occasion there were relatively minor injuries, but it is one of the worst roads in the country. Urgent action by the Government is required to upgrade it to a two lane bridge and make it safe.

Four Masters Bridge is further downstream on the River Drowse which separates the two counties. It was badly damaged by the recent flooding and is unsafe. It is a protected structure and the road is closed. Approximately 4,000 crossings take place each day on Lennox Bridge as members of the local communities go about their daily business in Ballyshannon and Bundoran in doing the shopping, commuting to schools and engaging in other administrative tasks. Following the closure of Four Masters Bridge, the number of crossings has increased. However, as I have illustrated, accidents occur frequently and, sadly, a fatal accident may not be far away. As we witnessed in Leenane, County Mayo, these are old bridges that could be swept away in future flooding. This could cut the communities in question off completely.

I am not aware of plans for the immediate upgrade of the two bridges. I have contacted the managers of Donegal and Leitrim County Councils in the hope they will urgently petition the Minister for immediate funds and support in this regard. It is a critical issue in this part of the country, not least in the context of the tourism industry. The Drowse fishery is important. I spoke to the owner and he has said this time of year is as crucial to this part of the country as 12 July is to some in Northern Ireland in terms of tourism revenue. People are trying to catch the first salmon of the season which has yet to be caught.

When there are crises in this country, whether they are related to refugees, flooding, homelessness and so on, regardless of the financial constraints on Departments, the Government can come up with funds when it is forced to do so. All of these causes are worthy of Government support and moneys can always be found to attempt to solve these difficulties, but the communities of north Leitrim and south Donegal are no less deserving. These two bridges have been left to the elements for too long. The integrity of Four Masters Bridge has been seriously damaged and it is closed, while Lennox Bridge is a single-lane, accident prone crossing point. I appeal to the Minister to do all he can to liaise with both councils to come up with an urgent remedy for both crossings.

Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport (Deputy Paschal Donohoe)

I offer the Senator and the House best wishes for the new year.

I thank the Senator for raising this matter as it gives me the opportunity to perhaps give a wider perspective on what has happened to the transport infrastructure across the country. I will also be doing so in the Dáil this afternoon.

As the Senator is aware, the most extensive impact of the weather to date for the transport sector has been on the road network and within that I include the kinds of bridge to which the Senator refers. It has caused very serious disruption to daily life in many areas and led to the cutting off in some cases of small communities and households from others. The priority of local and national agencies to date has been public safety and there has been ongoing communication between local authorities, State bodies and residents in affected areas to ensure people were aware of the safety messages that issued relating to travelling in flooded areas and road closures or diversions. An Garda Síochána and local authority staff, with other relevant agencies, have worked closely to ensure warning signs have been put in place and diversion routes organised and signposted, with information and advice made available to the public via websites, social media and local radio. The Road Safety Authority has been very active in the past month in supporting and disseminating safety measures for all road users.

On the scale of damage and responding to the issue raised by the Senator, local authorities and Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, have advised my Department that it is not possible to get a comprehensive view of damage to road pavements until the floods fully recede and investigations and assessments are carried out. Bridges damaged as a result of flooding and storms, including bridges mentioned by the Senator, will need to be inspected, with a detailed assessment of the damage undertaken. TII has engineering consultants on a bridge framework available to commence inspections once flooding has subsided. Underwater inspection is a specialist area and only a limited number of consultants have the capability to undertake such inspections. The chief executive of TII has written to local authorities offering the services of the framework consultants if there are non-national road bridges of concern that they consider need to be inspected. In certain cases, it may be months before full information is available on the cost of repairs whereas in other cases, where water levels have receded more quickly, the timeframe will be shorter. My officials and those in TIl will engage with local authority officials to minimise the timeframe associated with critical repair works.

The Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government has been taking the lead in responding to the immediate needs of local authorities arising from the storms and flooding and provided funding for local authorities to allow them to deal quickly with the clean-up and measures needed to protect public safety. That Department has also sought submissions from local authorities setting out both the estimated short-term costs and the costs related to damage to infrastructure, including transport. This is to give a full picture of the full cost and I am working on putting that cost together.

So far, 25 of the 28 local authorities have reported on their estimated infrastructure damage costs and my Department is reviewing these estimates. The capital budget for my Department for this year is very tight and I have asked my officials as a matter of urgency to assess areas such as those referred to by the Senator where funding can be reprioritised or reallocated in order to deal with the consequences of the storms. The scale of the damage incurred and the overall cost will be very large and require a response across the Government on which I am working with Ministers. The infrastructure mentioned by the Senator is an example of the kind of work that I accept we will need to respond to in the coming months.

Senator Marc MacSharry

I thank the Minister. Sadly, that was a very generic response and it could probably apply to most counties in Ireland with respect to flooding damage and so on. I am disappointed the Minister did not say he had spoken to officials in the Department and that they would engage with the county managers of both counties to prioritise this issue. As he stated, the community has effectively been cut off.

There is awful flood damage throughout the country and I commend all the services that are undertaking great work to address it. The Four Masters Bridge and Lennox Bridge in north Leitrim-south Donegal must be prioritised. I hope when the Minister goes back to his office today, he will speak to the Secretary General of the Department and ask him to contact both county managers.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe

I thank the Senator for raising the issue with me. He is correct to say I have given him a national overview of the situation. I am sure he will appreciate that while this is a very important project to the Senator and the community on whose behalf he is raising the issue, my challenge is that we now have hundreds of these issues throughout the country. I am working within the Government to come up with a plan to allow us to respond to them and I will certainly consider the bridges to which the Senator has referred.

Traffic Management

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire agus guím bliain nua faoi mhaise air. The chronic traffic situation we experience in Galway on an ongoing basis is getting worse. I propose one immediate solution to bring some relief which I want to discuss with the Minister and seek his advice on its implementation. The issue is the need for the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to discuss the effectiveness of high-occupancy vehicles - those carrying two, three or more persons - being allowed to use bus lanes in Galway city and how we would go about its implementation. I have looked at international evidence and suggest this to the Minister as a short-term measure to alleviate gridlock and traffic delays, including panic and danger, as I will outline to him. I suggest it also on the basis that the bus system is not optimised in Galway city. The system is very poor and I have had discussions with the National Transport Authority which confirms that the bus system is not optimised. Galway City Council and the NTA will report on a major traffic study in February but immediate traffic solutions are needed for Galway city. I have prepared a website called galwaytraffic.ie in which I propose four solutions of which this is only one.

The first solution I propose is a dedicated school bus system for Galway city. There are approximately 30 schools in Galway city and the traffic is better during school holidays. The situation would be better if these kids were using a bus instead of relying on parents to drive them, because mostly there is only one child per car. The evidence is that only about 3% of people use buses in Galway, while 80% use cars. Those figures are confirmed by two studies carried out by Galway Chamber of Commerce and Lewis Lesley who has a long-standing interest in this isue. The other solution I have mentioned is the high-occupancy vehicles, HOVs, about which I will speak.

There is no bus lane across the Quincentenary Bridge. In Galway, people live mostly on the west side of the city whereas most people work on the east side. There is no bus lane, which means that everyone has to go through the city centre, which is ridiculous. Of course, an engineering solution would need to be found to make that safe.

I propose a light rail system for Galway city. At least 30 cities in Europe with fewer than 100,000 people have light rail systems. It is possible and I am very aware of the peak hour passenger figures that are needed for it. I am working with the NTA on that issue and we are about to carry out a peak hour passenger count. I can assure the Minister that, based on the evidence I have, there is support for it.

To return to the issue of the high occupancy vehicle that I mentioned, peak hour traffic is very bad between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m. and 4.30 p.m. and 6.30 p.m. Outside these times, it is not so bad. The Minister will not be surprised that at 3 a.m. the streets are empty. Immediate action is needed to ease peak hour congestion, which is why I suggest this solution which, as I say, is a short-term solution in the absence of real solutions. Four out of five peak cars have only one passenger; the remaining cars have two or more. We need to incentivise people. As a pilot study, during one peak hour, cars carrying two or more passengers should be allowed to use the bus lanes.

There is evidence that chronic traffic delays elsewhere in the world have been reduced by 30%.

I would not make this proposal to the Minister if we had an adequate bus system in Galway. The NTA has pointed out to me that if we had an adequate bus system for peak hours, there should be buses running every three minutes. There are just five bus lanes in Galway city, with only an occasional bus using them. This is a waste. Can the Minister imagine how frustrating it is for people to sit in chronic traffic while there is an empty lane to the left with an occasional bus or taxi in it? I understand the importance of compliance and so on and the importance of safety in the context of how the lanes would merge. However, because the bus lanes are only in certain areas, traffic is obliged to merge at the end of the lanes. I do not believe, therefore, it would cause any unnecessary dangers. The evidence also shows that this measure would be very symbolic and that it would encourage people to start talking about how to car-pool and to consider how to improve our environment. The Minister knows that Ireland is facing huge environmental fines after 2020 if we do not look at transport as a major cause of emissions. This measure could be effective in the short term, it is highly symbolic and it will start people talking about solutions. I know the Minister is going to report that there is a bypass in the offing, but that may or may not happen. That is the history in Galway. I will conclude by putting it to the Minister that Galway needs immediate traffic solutions now. I am keen to hear his response.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe

I thank the Senator for raising this matter. I agree that there is a need to reduce traffic congestion within Galway city and county, to improve commuting times and to reduce emissions. No one would argue against encouraging higher vehicle occupancy, where possible. Four people travelling in one car is a much more efficient way of using resources than each taking a separate car. However, the specific point raised by the Senator relates to whether allowing multi-occupancy vehicles to use bus lanes would be an appropriate way to encourage multi-occupancy. The short answer is that it would not.

We must remember what is the purpose of bus lanes and why they are in place. The rationale for creating the bus lane network was to provide on-street priority for buses. The intention is to make bus services faster and more reliable to attract more people out of their cars and onto public transport. This helps to reduce congestion and pollution. The construction of the bus lane network was done at some expense to the public in order to enable this to happen. The legislation governing usage of the bus lanes is set out in the Road Traffic Regulations 1997, as amended. Under this legislation, buses and bicycles are allowed to avail of bus lanes, as are taxis in the case of with-flow bus lanes only. Cyclists were permitted to use bus lanes as they are inherently vulnerable as road users and are considered safer in bus lanes rather than in general traffic. It may interest the House to know that taxis were initially not allowed into bus lanes. It was only after the introduction of bus lanes that it was agreed to allow taxis to also use them. This was done after much consideration and was a concession based on the fact that taxis are available for on-street hire. Vehicles used by members of the emergency services - the Garda, the fire service and the ambulance service - in the course of their duties may also be driven in bus lanes in order to prevent delay in reaching the scenes of emergencies, transporting people to hospital, etc. Since the introduction of the bus lane network, my Department has received numerous requests - I have been in this House on many occasions to discuss such requests - in respect of the need to open bus lanes to other categories of road users. Some of these requests related to multi-occupancy cars. In all cases, my predecessors and I have taken the view that extending the use of bus lanes to other categories of vehicles would undermine the original purpose of the lanes.

The overriding concern in considering these applications is the carrying capacity of bus lanes. We do not want their primary role of providing bus priority to be undermined by allowing other vehicles access. As a result, we have chosen to maintain the current restrictions on use of bus lanes. While in some cases the numbers of vehicles involved might not be large, conceding access to bus lanes to any new class of vehicles would make it difficult to argue against doing so for any other. We also need to remember that last year in this city alone, passenger numbers on the Dublin Bus network rose to 122 million on the company's 110 public service routes. In the Senator's city, the numbers using Bus Éireann's services are up from 3.5 million in 2012 to more than 4 million in 2014, a huge increase of 14%.

As the country gets back to work and the recovery strengthens, we must ensure taking the bus to school, college or work is an attractive option in order that people leave their cars behind and reduce congestion on the roads. One of the ways to do that is by ensuring bus lanes are free flowing and journey times are as short as possible.

In the light of the original reasons for creating bus lanes and the sound reasons for rejecting previous proposals to extend access to other classes of vehicle, I remain of the view that there is no ground for changing the law to allow multi-occupancy vehicles into bus lanes.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

I thank the Minister for his answer which is disappointing because I proposed a solution in the absence of adequate buses. The Minister said taking the bus to school or work was a good idea. There are no buses in Galway city to take people to school. That is the problem. That is why I said one of my solutions was a dedicated bus system. There are not adequate buses. The response of the National Transport Authority to me was that for 2,000 passengers per peak hour, one bus every three minutes was needed. We do not have this.

An Cathaoirleach

Does the Senator have a question?

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

What immediate solutions does the Minister have to relieve traffic gridlock in Galway?

Deputy Paschal Donohoe

I can respond to that question, but that was not what this Commencement matter was about. With respect, if the Senator tables a matter and asks me to respond, I will respond to it. I can respond to her broader question because I participated in a forum on how to respond to the management of traffic in Galway. The short answer from a public transport perspective is that we need to provide more buses. We have funding in our capital plan to do that, which is the very reason I do not want to change the use of bus lanes. If we increase the number of buses available across the country, which we will, it will be up to Bus Éireann to decide where to deploy those buses. As more buses become available, it is very important that we make sure to keep the bus lanes clear for the use of those buses.

The broader reason, specifically in respect of using bus lanes, is that if I were to make them available to more than one additional form of road user, the demand to make them more widely available would continue to increase. I want to have more buses using the bus lanes in Galway and elsewhere, which is why I continue to hold the view that we should keep the lanes free for current buses and more buses.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

One final point-----

An Cathaoirleach

There is no such provision. The Minister will not be allowed to answer the point.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

I agree that bus lanes should be kept for buses-----

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator is way out of order.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

-----but where the number of buses is not adequate, that is not an adequate answer. It is fine when more buses are provided.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator is completely out of order.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames

It is easy to pull them off but in the meantime, the Minister needs to consider better and more immediate solutions for Galway. I do not accept that this is in any way a funny matter. It is a very serious issue for the city.

Road Safety

Senator Marie Moloney

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Gerald Nash, and wish him, the Cathaoirleach and the staff a happy new year.

I raise this Commencement matter because there is a stretch of road at Ballydowney, Killarney, on which there is no ditch or fence. It is level with the national park where the deer are free to roam. At a recent inquest, the coroner said that while he could not find traces of deer in that fatal accident, there were traces of deer in three fatal accidents previously. Many minor accidents have occurred on that stretch of road. Last week, I spoke to a woman who told me a deer wandered onto the road, hit the windscreen of her car and smashed it and broke the mirror. Many such accidents occur at that location but many people do not report them. I have been on to gardaí in Killarney who told me they receive between 70 to 100 calls every year from people reporting deer on the road posing a danger.

The Minister will appreciate that if a farmer had livestock in a field, he would have to have a ditch or a fence to stop cows, sheep or other animals wandering onto the main road where an accident could happen. There used to be a high wall at that location but for some reason, it was removed and there is nothing in its place to prevent the deer wandering onto the road. The Minister should not get me wrong. I love the deer. They are a big draw in terms of visitors to Killarney town and we are very proud of them, but we must ensure the safety of motorcyclists and pedestrians on that stretch of road. It is the main Ring of Kerry road on which many tourists travel. There is a warning sign with a deer on a yellow background and there is also another one indicating that horses are crossing as the road is used by a riding school. Signs should be erected that will have more of an impact on tourists and make them aware that accidents occur at this location and that deer wander onto the road.

I am aware there has been some resistance to putting up a fence in this area. It is difficult to establish who owns the land because in response to a motion tabled by someone, the council said the land was in the ownership of Bord Fáilte. I would have thought it was in the ownership of the Office of Public Works, but I believe now that it is under the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht. We should try to establish who has responsibility for that stretch of land and ask that a barrier be put up to stop the deer jumping onto the road and causing many accidents in that location. I will await the Minister of State's reply before I refer to the matter further.

Minister of State at the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation (Deputy Gerald Nash)

I thank the Senator for raising the matter which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Heather Humphreys.

Wild deer in the State are protected under the Wildlife Acts. It should be noted that while the National Parks and Wildlife Service of the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht licenses hunting of deer, the Department does not own the deer population. They roam freely throughout the countryside and are present in many parts of the country. The Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht and the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine published Deer Management in Ireland - Framework for Action in March last year, which recommends a series of actions on deer management and conservation in a number of areas, including addressing the impact of deer in places where they are widespread. An Irish deer management forum has been established to implement the various actions listed in the report. The forum comprises representatives from the main stakeholder areas such as landowners, forestry, hunting and conservation organisations as well as representatives from both Departments.

With regard to calls for increased fencing relating to incidents of deer presence on public roads in County Kerry, the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht has no plans to fence the national park. Deer, albeit larger, are like other wild animals in this country and I am advised it is not part of the remit of the Department to cordon them onto specific areas of land. Moreover, fencing the national park would not be a viable solution and would not achieve the desired results for a number of reasons. The presence of deer is not confined to the national parks and so fencing of these properties would serve no practical purpose in terms of wild deer control or management. The park is more than 10,000 ha in size, including some rugged terrain. Fencing this area would be an enormous task which is unlikely to result in the desired objective. Sika deer are capable of going under fencing that is 8 in. off the ground, while red deer are capable of knocking fences that are preventing them from reaching traditional feeding and shelter grounds.

The erection of a fence of this scale could also impact on the sensitive habitats within the park. There are many deer outside the park boundaries which would still be capable of running into the path of motorists. The Department is of the view that improving sight lines for motorists as well as improved, possibly larger, signage is likely to be the most effective measure to assist motorists in remaining vigilant when driving through areas where populations of deer can be expected. Officials from the Department have discussed this with Kerry County Council and I understand the council has recently undertaken works to improve sight lines in the Ballydowney area for the benefit of motorists. Additional or relocated advance deer warning signs, or both, may also be provided by the local authority.

Senator Marie Moloney

The Minister of State has said wildlife in the country is protected under the Wildlife Acts, which is true, but who is going to protect the people? Who is going to protect the motorists? Three fatal accidents involving deer have occurred in that area. How many more people must die before we do something about it? I cannot understand it. There was a wall there previously, but it was taken down. Why was the wall there in the first place if we were trying to let the deer roam freely? Someone made a wise decision to erect a wall there, but now that wall is gone, which poses a danger for motorists.

I know that this issue is not in the Minister of State's remit and he cannot answer my questions on it, which is why I would have liked the Minister to be here to respond. I want to know why the wall was taken down. Why do we believe we can do nothing about a stretch of roadway which has seen many accidents involving deer? We can protect the animals and their habitat, but we cannot protect the people.

Deputy Gerald Nash

I understand the point being made by my party colleague and it is important that the Department and the Minister respond directly to her concerns. If it is the case that there was a wall there, perhaps some form of secure fencing could be erected in the area to protect motorists. It is terrible to hear that deer may have been responsible for accidents in the area.

Senator Marie Moloney

That was according to the coroner.

Deputy Gerald Nash

That is deeply regrettable and unfortunate and, of course, action should be taken to protect the population and road users. That is not within my remit, as the Senator has accepted, but it is important that officials in the Department would contact her to clarify some of the points she has made. I will ask the Minister to ensure the issues she has raised are addressed in the interests of protecting motorists in the Ballydowney area.

Medicinal Products Licensing

An Cathaoirleach

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch.

Senator Michael D'Arcy

I thank the Cathaoirleach for giving me the opportunity to raise this matter. I am not sure how much the Minister of State knows about this particular drug, Orkambi. There are a number of people in north Wexford who have children suffering from cystic fibrosis and they believe this drug could have a major impact on their children's lives. There has been some degree of misinformation about this issue and I ask the Minister of State to clarify the position of the Minister, the Department of Health and the HSE on the status of this drug. Following the evaluation process, when will the drug come to the market? If it comes to the market, will it be made available to cystic fibrosis sufferers?

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Kathleen Lynch)

I know a little about this issue because a very close friend of mine has cystic fibrosis and benefited greatly from the drug Kalydeco which the former Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, and I approved, which approval we announced approximately two years ago. I am aware of the effects that very specialised drugs can have on relatively rare conditions. Cystic fibrosis is a relatively rare disease, although it is not so rare in Ireland, particularly in the south of the country.

I thank the Senator for raising this matter. Decisions on which medicines are licensed for use in Ireland and reimbursed by the taxpayer are made on objective, scientific and economic grounds by the HSE on the advice of the National Centre for Pharmacoeconomics, NCPE. The NCPE conducts the health technology assessment of pharmaceutical products for the HSE and can make recommendations on reimbursement to assist the HSE in its decision-making process. The HSE has statutory responsibility for decisions on the pricing and reimbursement of medicinal products under the community drug schemes, in accordance with the provisions of the Health (Pricing and Supply of Medical Goods) Act 2013. It is appropriate that there should be no political or ministerial decisions and that a scientific and evidence-based approach is taken to determining the extent to which patients can benefit from treatment with expensive new drugs.

As the Senator may be aware, Orkambi is a combination drug for the treatment of cystic fibrosis, CF, in patients with two copies of a specific CF gene mutation. The drug was approved by the US Food and Drug Administration in July 2015 and the European Medicines Agency on 19 November 2015. In other words, Orkambi has only been licensed for use in the European Union within the past few months. Its manufacturer, Vertex Pharmaceuticals, submitted a rapid review application to the NCPE on 26 November 2015. This rapid review represents the first step in a pricing and reimbursement application. The NCPE has completed the rapid review and recommended a full health technology assessment of the drug.

Based on pricing details in the rapid review file, the HSE estimates that reimbursement would cost approximately €90 million per year. However, the company has yet to submit a full pricing and reimbursement application to the HSE’s primary care reimbursement service. Since early 2013, the HSE has reimbursed more than €60 million for CF patients receiving Kalydeco and there are approximately 140 patients being treated with this drug. In the next decade the HSE expects to spend well over €200 million on this small but unique group of patients.

While I appreciate that some may take the view that the taxpayer should reimburse every licensed medicine for whatever price a drug company demands, the interests of the health service as a whole require that we only reimburse the most effective medicines and only at a fair price. I also appreciate and fully understand people suffering from cystic fibrosis will be most anxious for an early and positive decision on reimbursement for Orkambi. However, it would not be appropriate for me to appear to prejudge decisions which are for the HSE in the first instance under legislation passed by the Oireachtas in 2013. I trust that the Senator will understand the position.

Senator Michael D'Arcy

I thank the Minister of State for her clarification that the process is ongoing and that subsequent to its evaluation, a pricing conversation will be held with the manufacturer. However, I would like to hear her view. I am glad that she has come to the House to respond on this issue because I am aware of her role in the use of Kalydeco and the benefits to be gained from using it. If Orkambi can do what is said it can, I ask her to ensure an early and favourable decision is made on the issue. By all accounts, people suffering from cystic fibrosis could benefit enormously in terms of their quality of life. The Minister of State has been involved in a similar issue previously and I would like to hear her personal view in this instance which would be appreciated. She has said she has a close personal friend who is suffering.

I find it distasteful that before Christmas a Member of this House effectively misled people on this matter. There was a conversation about Commencement matters and a vote was taken. However, the message was sent that the use of Orkambi had been discussed in this Chamber, that we had voted on the matter and that Members on one side of the House had voted against making the drug available. That is reprehensible and not the way we normally do business. We should not and cannot go down the route of playing politics with people's illnesses. Many people were misled.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

Even if this House had voted differently - I am not certain how they voted-----

Senator Michael D'Arcy

There was no vote.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

Even if a motion was tabled and this House decreed that it should be made available, it would have no impact. That is not how the process works. It is not a political decision. It is very much a decision made on scientific and economic grounds.

I have been listening to the debate on this issue over the Christmas and new year period and more recently. Even those who advocate on behalf of the CF community, some of whom I know, admit that this drug is too expensive. As regards if and when it is approved, I have no opinion on that issue and do not think it would be right for me to offer an opinion on it at this stage. This issue should be dealt with on a Europe-wide basis. Even though our CF numbers are exceptionally high, it is easy to take a small country like Ireland and pick us off saying, "There's our price and that's what we're getting." As it is much easier to deal with a greater population base, the European Union should come together to negotiate the purchase price for all drugs on a Europe-wide basis.

As I said, even those advocating on behalf of the CF community admit that, as it stands, this drug is way too expensive. The people concerned are not foolish; they know the consequences and the possible effect it could have. Equally, however, they understand that there is not a bottomless financial pit. While it is important for us to take on board what they are saying, we need to move swiftly towards the point where the European Union negotiates with the pharmacological industry, rather than smaller countries and regions doing it alone such as in Ireland, Northern Ireland, Luxembourg or Liechtenstein. If not, we will be left isolated and unable to negotiate a better deal for ourselves.

Sitting suspended at 3.20 p.m. and resumed at 3.30 p.m.