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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 14 Jan 2016

Vol. 245 No. 2

Commencement Matters

Archaeological Sites

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Joe McHugh.

I thank the Cathaoirleach and welcome the Minister of State.

I want to ask about the Killery Graveyard in Ballintogher. I am not entirely sure whether it is correctly described as a graveyard or a burial ground and appreciate that there is a difference. The Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht has efficiently and properly written a fully report on the maintenance and care of historic graveyards. It has noted that historic graveyards play an important role in the cultural life of Irish people.

The graveyard in question dates back to the 15th century, which makes it one of the oldest graveyards in existence. It is in a state of deep disrepair. It is also a grave for both Catholic and Protestant. People wishing to visit the site are now really not able to due to its state and, with a church located nearby, there is a fear of falling masonry. My understanding is the site is not in the care of the OPW. In bringing forward my request I seek to clarify in whose care the graveyard ought to be. Is it the OPW? If it is not in the care of the OPW, it ought to be. I would appreciate if the Minister of State could offer some clarity on the matter. Obviously, these places are very special and precious to the local community and the wider community. In the context of our history and heritage, it is important that sites of this nature are not lost. Of course, damage is occurring at the site on an ongoing basis and there is concern that the problem will become something that cannot be fixed. I await the Minister of State's response in terms of where the duty of care lies with this graveyard, given its great age and the fact that it is a Catholic and Protestant place of rest.

Guím bliain fé mhaise ar an gCathaoirleach agus ar na Seanadóirí go léir fosta.

I thank the Senator for tabling this matter. She has mentioned that people can no longer visit their loved ones in the graveyard. There is a similar situation in my county at the old Kilmacrennan Abbey. This is a matter to which we need to give serious consideration.

As the House will be aware, the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht who is unavailable today is charged with responsibility, under the National Monuments Acts 1930 to 2004, for the protection of our rich and vitally important archaeological heritage. The monumental remains at Killery, County Sligo are of considerable interest in that they provide a link with the past history of the parish which can be traced back to at least the 14th century.

They also provide evidence of local ritual practices. The graveyard is still in use today. It contains many 19th and 20th century headstones and some low uninscribed grave markers, as well as several chest tombs and recumbent grave slabs. In the north-east quadrant lies a thin stone slab. It is broken and partly covered in sods of grass, but it has two round and five oval stones known as the curing stones. These stones were discovered in the graveyard when it was dug up and levelled in the 19th century. Adjacent to the stones is a small rectangular stone to which, according to early reports, was tied a piece of string that was known as the straining thread. These stones, together with the string or thread were reputed to cure strains, pains and aches in people and animals. The ruins of the mediaeval parish church are incorporated in the southern boundary wall of the graveyard and bear witness to a number of alterations that have been made over the centuries. It appears to have been rebuilt, possibly in the 18th century, when the east gable was reconstructed. The church also appears to have been reduced in size at this time by the insertion of a cross wall.

The monuments at Killery are protected under section 12 of the National Monuments Acts, 1930 to 2004, as recorded monuments and two months notice must be given to the Minister, in writing, of any proposed work at these monuments. However, the care and maintenance of these monuments is the responsibility of the local authority; in this instance, Sligo County Council. It is appropriate that as a graveyard still in use the local authority would continue to be responsible for its management in this way. The Department manages and maintains almost 1,000 individual monuments at 768 locations across the State. Undoubtedly, the Senator is familiar with many of these such as the great megalithic cemeteries at Carrowmore and Knocknarea, the wonderful monastic complexes at Inishmurray Island and Church Island, Lough Gill, the superb high crosses and round tower at Drumcliff, the magnificent Sligo Abbey and, of course, the remarkable castle at Ballinafad. The existing portfolio reflects the rich and varied diversity of the county's built heritage. Regrettably, the Department does not have the resources to take on additional sites at this time; however, I can assure the Senator that we will continue to keep this issue under ongoing review in the light of changing resources.

I thank the Minister of State for his response. He has rightly pointed to the great and extraordinary variation and richness of the built heritage in County Sligo. While I appreciate it is the responsibility of Sligo County Council and that the Department does not have the resources to take on additional sites at this time, what are the criteria in deciding whether such a site should be taken over by the Department? Is it about scale? He mentioned Knocknarea and Carrowmore, the two large sites. Is it when a local authority states it cannot take care of it or when the Department deems it ought to be because it is more important than something else? That is the issue on which I am not clear. Should I seek further clarification from the Department as to the point at which something is handed over to the Department and is no longer in the care of the local authority?

To be helpful, I will cite an example in my county. The abbey in Rathmullan is under the ownership of the Church of Ireland, but there is an ongoing discourse between the heritage officer at Donegal County Council and the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht and the Office of Public Works is involved. It may be idea to get Sligo County Council to organise a meeting between the Office of Public Works and the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht. I will do what I can to help facilitate that meeting if the Senator wishes to pursue it.

While the Minister does not have the wherewithal to intervene directly in this instance, there may be opportunities for the local authority to source funding to have remedial repairs carried out to the structures and make the sites safe for visitors. Financial support is provided by the Department through a number of structured schemes for the conservation and protection of heritage buildings. There is the structures at risk fund to enable conservation works to heritage structures in both private and public ownership that are protected under the Planning and Development Acts and are deemed to be at significant risk of deterioration. On 21 October 2015 the Minister launched a new €2 million scheme, the built heritage investment scheme, for the repair and conservation of protected structures. This scheme will operate in 2016 via the local authorities on the same model as the very successful built heritage jobs leverage scheme which ran in 2014. It is expected to support a significant number of projects across the country and to create employment in the conservation and construction industries, while helping to regenerate urban and rural areas.

The Heritage Council which the Department funds also provides grants for the protection and preservation of the built heritage. For 2015 the council administered a community-based heritage grants scheme, with funding of more than €500,000 available for projects that contributed to particular heritage themes. The council would be able to advise if this structure would be eligible for funding now or in the future. I hope this information is of benefit. I am aware from my dealings with different local authorities that the heritage officers play a proactive role and do good work. The biggest challenge is in terms of resources. As it is a health and safety issue, surely there could be a mechanism to attract funding to ensure the buildings are safe in the first instance in order that tourists can visit but, more importantly, that people who have loved ones in the graveyards can visit them and are not precluded from doing so.

Site Acquisitions

I thank the Cathaoirleach for the opportunity to raise this important matter. There is an issue in Asbourne, County Meath, in respect of a 23 acre site which the Department of Education and Skills has bought to use as a temporary campus for Coláiste De Lacy which is the new much needed second level school. The site is in two parts on two sides of a road. One part is residential with approval for housing under planning permission, the second part is zoned for green space, a linear park and river walk beside the Broadmeadow River. Meath County Council has been in contact with the Department of Education and Skills seeking to open up that site for the community on the land which the Department owns, which is zoned for a linear park. As I understand it, the section zoned for a linear park is not required by the Department for educational purposes.

In its capital development plan Meath County Council has already allocated and approved €1.1 million to develop a linear park for Asbourne which is one of the fastest growing towns in Ireland. There is a dire need for this type of facility in the town. The park has been planned for at least 12 years. Many houses have been built as part of other zoning objectives, but this park has not got off the ground. The Department of Education and Skills may state it will take a few years to sell the land and move the school on. I understand this site is not needed for the school. It may take a few years for somebody to apply for planning permission for housing construction and in the meantime Asbourne has no public park.

I urge the Department of Education and Skills and the Minister to liaise with Meath County Council with a view to arriving at an arrangement that would benefit everybody, ensuring the temporary campus for Coláiste De Lacy is secure - I understand it is - but also that the Department plays its part to ensure the zoning objectives in terms of what is required for the community in Asbourne are achieved. Some 77% of the population of Asbourne are under 44 years of age. There is a huge number of young families in the town who need a park and space in which to play. The Department of Education and Skills is sitting on land that is not necessary for school purposes but which could be developed immediately by Meath County Council if it was made available to it. If this was a private developer, we would be urging him or her to open up this land. I appeal to the Department of Education and Skills to work on the issue with Meath County Council. I am grateful to my colleague, Councillor Seán Smith, in Ashbourne who has been working on it for some time and has asked me to raise it in the House. It is a crucial issue and there must be a way for the Department to engage with the local authority with a view to having the land released and, ultimately, to have the park opened for the people of Ashbourne.

On behalf of the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, I thank the Senator for raising this matter.

The Department of Education and Skills is aware of Meath County Council's plans to develop a linear park in Ashbourne.

As outlined by the Senator, the proposed park includes a portion of land alongside the Broadmeadow River which is in the Minister's ownership. As the Senator may be aware, the Department acquired two portions of land in Ashbourne to meet school accommodation requirements in the town. One of these portions was acquired for the purpose of providing a campus solution with school accommodation for De Lacy College, Gaelscoil na Mí and Ashbourne Educate Together national school. The second portion, adjacent to the new campus, was acquired to facilitate access to the permanent site and it also facilitates temporary accommodation for the post-primary school pending completion of the construction project.

The post-primary school De Lacy College opened in September 2014 in temporary accommodation. It is proposed to deliver a 1,000 pupil post-primary school for De Lacy College, in two phases. Construction on the first phase, to accommodate 450 pupils, is under way and expected to be completed towards the end of 2016. Gaelscoil na Mí opened in temporary accommodation at Donaghmore-Ashbourne GAA Club in September 2011. A new permanent 16-classroom building for the school is under construction and this accommodation is also expected to be delivered by the end of 2016. Ashbourne Educate Together national school opened in temporary accommodation in September 2012 and is currently accommodated on the grounds of Ashbourne and District Community Council. Construction is also under way on a new permanent 16-classroom building for this school and, as with Gaelscoil na Mí, assuming no issues arise, this building is expected to be completed by the end of the year.

Ultimately, some of the lands currently in the Minister’s ownership adjacent to the new Ashbourne school campus will become surplus to the Department’s requirements. When they are no longer needed, the Department may consider disposing of these lands. Any such disposal would be conducted in accordance with the recent protocol for the intra-State transfer of State property assets, as circulated by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. In the context of the Department’s close working relationship with Meath County Council in respect of school site acquisitions, the Department will consult the local authority in the first instance regarding any such disposal. Officials in Meath County Council have recently requested the Department to consider the disposal of a portion of the land adjacent to the new campus for the purpose of the development of the linear park. A meeting is being arranged between officials from the Department and officials from the local authority with a view to discussing the matter.

I again thank the Senator on behalf of the Minister for giving me the opportunity to outline to the Seanad the current position on the lands in question in Ashbourne, County Meath.

Does Senator Thomas Byrne have a question?

I do not have a question, but I do have a comment. This is probably one of the more positive responses the community has received in that at least the Department is open to meeting Meath County Council with a view to discussing the matter of the disposal of what we say are unnecessary lands. I certainly hope it happens and that it happens as soon as possible and that Meath County Council can get access to these lands, by lease or purchase, and develop them as a park for the community, as such a park is badly needed in Ashbourne.

I will convey what the Senator has said to the Minister. The Minister and the Department should be thanked for the major development that is ongoing in Ashbourne. Many communities throughout the country, no doubt, would envy such development in terms of the provision of school accommodation. I am glad that there is co-operation between the Department and Meath County Council.

Medicinal Products Expenditure

I welcome the Minister of State. I am raising the issue of Xolair - I hope I have pronounced it right - which is a drug for people with severe asthma. I am raising it as severe asthma is associated with a significant morbidity and health care resource. Some 10% of patients with asthma have severe asthma and these patients enduere a disproportionate economic burden. The main cost drivers are the frequency and expense of treatment failure, including asthma exacerbation, associated with unscheduled hospitalisations. Annual health care costs are higher for patients with poor asthma control. A study carried out by Professor Costello found that if this drug were to be made available, there would be a 67% reduction in the number of hospitalisations, a 68% reduction in the number of bed days, a 61% reduction in asthma exacerbations, a 62% reduction in the number of courses of oral drugs and a 90% reduction in the number of workdays lost. This drug has a proven track record, yet it is not available under the drugs repayment scheme. Approximately 310 patients receive the drug, but they are receiving it because it is being funded by hospitals from their own budgets, which will not continue forever. The matter needs to be clarified. Submissions were made in 2014, but, unfortunately, they were rejected. The issue needs to be given priority at this stage.

I thank the Senator for raising this issue. Decisions on which medicines are licensed for use in Ireland and which are reimbursed by the taxpayer are made on objective, scientific and economic grounds by the HSE on the advice of the National Centre for Pharmocoeconomics, NCPE. The NCPE is a team of clinicians, a pharmacist, a pharmacologist and statisticians who evaluate the benefits and costs of medical technologies and provide advice for the HSE. The NCPE conducts health technology assessments on pharmaceutical products for the HSE and can make recommendations on reimbursement to assist the HSE in its decision-making process.

The HSE has statutory responsibility for decisions on pricing and reimbursement of medicinal products under the community drugs schemes in accordance with the provisions of the Health Act 2013. It is appropriate that these should not be political or ministerial decisions and that a scientific and evidence-based approach is taken to determining the extent to which patients will benefit from treatment with expensive new drugs and whether this represents cost effectiveness for the health service and the taxpayer.

In August 2014 the HSE medicines management programme asked the NCPE to carry out an assessment of the clinical and economic dossiers submitted by Novartis Ireland on the cost-effectiveness of the company's drug, Xolair, for the treatment of severe allergic asthma. Novartis proposed that the drug be reimbursed as a hospital-only drug, as it must be administered in a hospital setting. Following its assessment of the manufacturer's dossier, the NCPE did not recommend Xolair for reimbursement as it did not consider the drug to be cost effective for the indicated treatment at the submitted price. The HSE accepted the NCPE's recommendation and the drug is not currently reimbursed under any HSE scheme.

While I appreciate that some may take the view that the taxpayer should reimburse every licensed medicine for whatever price a drug company demands, the interests of the health service as a whole require that we only reimburse the most effective medicines and only at a fair price. In this way, we can ensure the most appropriate and cost-effective expenditure of the drug budget available to the HSE each year.

I did not receive a copy of the written reply and I am wondering if it could be made available to me. If I could go back to what I said, the research shows that there would be a 67% reduction in the number of hospitalisations, a 68% reduction in the number of bed days, a 61% reduction in exacerbations, a 62% reduction in courses of oral corticosteroids and a 90% reduction in the number of workdays lost. Economically, it shows that the drug is effective and the research is available. I accept that sometimes there is a difficulty in getting a realistic price or quote from the drug companies for a drug, but this matter should be reopened. There is a huge cost to the State in not having it available. Hospitals are providing it for more than 300 patients, but they are providing it from within their own budgets. This matter should be re-examined.

I will convey the Senator's concerns and suggestions to the Minister. I am sure he will also write to the Minister directly on this matter.

Motor Insurance Coverage

Cuirim céad fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit agus guím athbhliain faoi shéan is faoi mhaise air.

Interestingly, I note the headline on an article in today's edition of the Irish Examiner reads, "Standard & Poor’s sees car insurance hikes on road to profits". The article reports that the insurance industry here will be obliged to hike car insurance premiums because the profits of the insurance companies appear to be falling or not reaching the targets they would expect. This relates to the question I tabled today to the Minister for Finance because I seek a statement on the practices of the insurance industry that appear to penalise certain categories of driver, including young drivers in particular, as well as those driving cars that are more than ten years old. I also wish to ascertain what steps the Government is taking to counteract these practices. This issue arises frequently in the area I am from, where I am told young drivers are being asked to pay anything between €2,000 and €9,000 in annual premiums for motor insurance. This, obviously, is not affordable for them and, consequently, they cannot get on the road and take up jobs, attend courses, etc. According to the Irish Brokers Association, some insurers have even stopped providing quotes for drivers in their 20s and insurance costs have been shooting up for months. However, younger drivers are the biggest losers, with average increases of between 20% and 30% in 2015.

Another issue has arisen about cars that have passed the national car test, NCT, but which are between ten and 15 years old. While everyone welcomed the introduction of the NCT to make sure all motor vehicles on the road were safe, one now finds that insurance companies will not provide quotes for people who own older cars. This is hugely inconsiderate for those living in rural areas who have taken care of their cars. It seems crazy that while the Government, through the NCT system, is stating a car that has passed the NCT is fit to be on the road, an insurance company can turn around and decline to insure it, thereby deeming it to be undriveable. Moreover, someone who wishes to sell on such a car will not be able to sell it because he or she will be unable to get a price for it. Consequently, questions also arise as to why a car that passes the NCT is not being insured. This, obviously, has an impact on rural dwellers and students, as well as those on lower incomes because many of the people who have such older or cheaper cars are on lower incomes.

Other issues have been raised with me about how the penalty points regime is having an impact on the price of insurance premiums. This morning I learned of a father whose son had come home for Christmas with three penalty points on his licence, having been 10 km/h above the speed limit in a certain area. The son had paid his penalty and was happy to so do, but when the father attempted to insure him for ten days over Christmas, he was asked for €150 in an increased premium. This appears to be blatant profiteering on the part of an insurance company. I have heard of another case in which one penalty point on a person's licence resulted in an increase of €150 in that person's premium. It is not just me, as many consumers also are concerned about this issue. I note that the Consumers Association of Ireland has also called on the Government to conduct an independent review of the insurance industry amid growing concerns that motor insurers are penalising in particular pensioners and younger drivers who tend to drive older cars.

Some people have suggested this is blatant profiteering by the insurance industry. Some have stated younger drivers, in particular, are being fleeced by the insurance companies. Entities such as Standard & Poor’s stated this morning that it was a profit-driven initiative, but I note the profits of Aviva, one of the companies imposing these increased fees, increased by 13% last year. What is the Government doing to tackle the insurance industry? Is it simply being allowed to do whatever it wishes and charge whatever prices it seeks? Why is the Government not providing for some form of regulation to make sure a fairer system will be in place for young people, those who own older cars and people living in rural areas? What is happening to make sure there is fair play and prevent insurance companies, when they consider they are not making sufficient profits, from targeting certain sectors and segments of society by charging them additional extortionate premiums? In many cases, this renders them unable to work or attend courses or makes them victims of a poor public transport system that cannot serve their needs. In recent weeks Members have seen issues with the insurance industry with regard to flooding, the cost of insurance and whether people can get insurance cover in such scenarios. However, motor insurance is also an area in which huge scrutiny is required. It appears it is a highly unfair playing field and that in this case too, the insurance companies are not playing ball.

I thank the Senator for raising this current and relevant matter. The Minister for Finance is responsible for the development of the legal framework governing financial regulation and is concerned that there should be a stable insurance sector and that risks to policyholders and the wider financial system are limited. He is aware of reports on the increasing cost of motor insurance. However, the ability of the Government to influence insurance pricing is limited, as insurance companies are required under European law to price in accordance with risk and neither the Minister nor the Central Bank of Ireland has the power to direct insurance companies on the pricing or provision of insurance products. The European Union framework for insurance expressly prohibits member states from adopting rules which require the prior approval or systematic notification of certain matters, including general and special policy conditions and scales of premiums. Furthermore, the EU framework provides non-life insurers with the freedom to set premiums. Insurance companies consider a number of risks when determining the premium for a proposed insurance policy, whether it be a general insurance policy such as motor or home insurance or a life assurance policy. A premium is based on the actuarial calculation of risk.

Insurance Ireland has advised the Minister that motor insurers make their own individual decisions on whether to offer cover and what terms to apply. They use a combination of rating factors in doing this such as the age of the driver, the type of car used, claims record, driving experience, the number of drivers, how the car is used, etc. Insurers do not all use the same combination of rating factors; prices vary across the market and consumers are free to choose. Insurance companies price in accordance with own past claims experience. For example, where the age of a car is a factor, different insurance companies use different age thresholds. It is important to note that as a result of the implementation of the EU gender directive in the motor insurance sector, there is a statutory requirement in Ireland for the provision of unisex premiums and benefits in insurance. This means that insurers are prohibited from discriminating on the basis of gender.

As stated, the ability of the Government to influence insurance pricing is limited, but that does not preclude the Government from introducing measures that may, in the longer term, lead to a better claims environment that would facilitate a reduction in claims costs. The Department of Finance has embarked on a review of the insurance sector which is being undertaken in consultation with the Central Bank of Ireland and other Departments and agencies. The objective of the review is to recommend measures to improve the functioning and regulation of the insurance sector. The review is being conducted on a phased basis, with the first phase reviewing issues in the motor insurance sector. As part of this first phase, the first meeting of officials from the Departments of Finance and Transport, Tourism and Sport took place on 7 January. Progress reports will be submitted to the Minister for Finance as the review progresses, with a final report expected within 12 months.

In the event that a person is unable to obtain a quotation for motor insurance or considers that the premium proposed or the terms are so excessive that it amounts to a refusal to give him or her motor insurance, he or she should contact Insurance Ireland quoting the declined cases agreement. Under this agreement, the declined cases committee of Insurance Ireland deals with cases of difficulty in obtaining motor insurance.

The people I mentioned who are being penalised by the insurance companies will not take much solace from the Minister of State's response. Does he agree that the Minister for Finance should haul in the insurance companies and raise these issues with them directly, as has been done, albeit belatedly, in the case of flooding?

Instead of waiting for a review that will take up to one year to complete while the companies will be allowed to make exorbitant profits on the backs of people who are hard pressed to pay their other bills, should the Minister for Finance not haul in these companies to advise them that it is not acceptable to penalise people with older cars and those on lower incomes just because their profits need to be bigger than they are? They should either change their practices or the Minister should use whatever measures, limited as they are, the Minister of State says he has to take them to task. If they will not regulate themselves and not play ball, the Government should show them that it will force them to be fair to all citizens who need to drive to work or attend courses or get through their daily lives.

As I said, the ability of the Government to influence insurance pricing is limited, as insurance companies are required under European law to price in accordance with risk. Neither the Minister for Finance nor the Central Bank of Ireland has the power to direct insurance companies on the pricing or provision of insurance products. In that sense, obviously, the Minister is restricted in directing insurance companies on their policy on rates of insurance and so on. I will, however, certainly convey the Senator's concerns to the Minister, who, unfortunately, cannot be here this because he is in the Dáil for Question Time. I, again, thank the Senator for raising the matter which is very topical at this time.

Sitting suspended at 11.15 a.m. and resumed at 11.30 a.m.
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