Skip to main content
Normal View

Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 Oct 2016

Vol. 247 No. 13

Order of Business

The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on the report on programme to review and enhance fire safety in local authority provided Traveller accommodation, to be taken at 12.45 p.m. and conclude not later than 2 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes each and those of all other Senators not to exceed four minutes each and the Minister to be called on to reply not later than 1.55 p.m.; No. 2, Private Members' business, Recognition of Irish Sign Language for the Deaf Community Bill 2016 - Second Stage, to be taken at 2 p.m., with the time allocated for the debate not to exceed two hours; and No. 20, Private Members' business, non-Government motion No. 8 re establishment of a judicial council, to be taken at 4 p.m., with the time allocated for the debate not to exceed two hours.

I thank the Leader for outlining the Order of Business. The Irish health system is pockmarked by the failures of the service itself and of politicians in terms of devising systems that do not work. In 2013, we highlighted that in the House with the recall of the Seanad to discuss organ donation. In one calendar year, 65 people on organ donor waiting lists will die. Currently, there are 650 people waiting for liver, lung and heart transplants, of whom one in ten will die waiting. Other countries have systems that work to the point where they actually have an excess of donated organs. It has nothing to do with the generosity of the people; it is simply a systems failure. Not only that, if we improved our system, it would save the taxpayer money. As the Leader knows, the cost of dialysis over a ten-year period is almost €325 million. Every organ transplant put in place would save money.

The issue I raise specifically relates to the Orkambi drug therapy for cystic fibrosis. The genetic profile of the Irish population means that Ireland has the highest rate in the western world of people who suffer with cystic fibrosis and who carry the gene which leads to that condition. Orkambi has transformed lives. There are a number of people who are on a trial of this drug therapy and the Government is carrying out a review. The cystic fibrosis website has welcomed the review which is the second or third so far. Not all of the 500 cystic fibrosis sufferers in Ireland will benefit from the therapy, but it appears that the majority will. Research from the British Management Institute has outlined that every report commissioned by a Government Department over 20 years has ended up agreeing with that Department's initial viewpoint. It is the case that he who pays the piper calls the tune. We are not, therefore, hopeful about the outcome of the Orkambi review. We realise the drug is expensive. Everybody understands this. However, the transformation in the lives of those who benefit from it is enormous.

I ask the Leader to find an answer to the question. We have had debates on this issue in the House. The former Minister for Health, Deputy Leo Varadkar, attended the House to discuss the review. Meanwhile, people are suffering because they are not being given access to Orkambi and it is not made available more widely. I ask the Leader to organise an answer to the question in regard to Orkambi and to indicate when it will be available to those who will benefit from it.

I concur with Senator Mark Daly's remarks on organ donation, which is very important. There are two other items. This afternoon we will have a Private Members' debate on the judicial council. The Leader might indicate if he is aware at this stage whether the Minister intends to be here or if it will be the Minister of State. He may not be in a position to tell me but it would be helpful if we had some indication as to whether the Minister will be here.

An issue that was covered in all national media today relates to a story that the Department of Health recommended to the Government in a memo, some of the contents of which were published in national newspapers this morning, that it not agree to sanction an additional payment for the approximately 4,000 people who work overnight in care centres with vulnerable children and adults. They are qualified staff who must stay overnight owing to the type of work they do, in some cases in 24 hour shifts. Some of them are on duty for seven days, but there are broken shifts. Prior to 2004, most of them were receiving no remuneration because they were sleeping on the premises at night, which was considered inactive activity. They are key, trained care workers. There are issues here of child safety and health and safety more generally. There are a range of reasons for which people must stay overnight, supervise and be there for vulnerable people who are in their charge. It is very disappointing to read in the national newspapers this morning the suggestion the Department of Health should write to the Government to ask it to hold back. They are on a basic, minimum wage of between €9.15 and €9.25 per hour. Clearly, the Leader will not know the detail of this issue, but it is something at which we should.

We should draw attention to today's media comments on it and perhaps ask the Minister when he is next in the House to touch on it.

I wanted to talk about another issue this morning but I have just come from a briefing by the Department of Social Protection about JobPath. I have very many concerns about this. My first concern is that in the west, the provision is made by the private company Seetec. I have nothing against Seetec, but it is a company that is based in Essex in the United Kingdom. One of my questions to the Department of Social Protection is if we had a choice in the matter of social welfare and job activation being privatised or was it an instruction from the European Union? I believe the Government had a choice in the matter. It is basically saying that the local employment services, LES, and Intreo were not able to do their job and did not have the resources to do their job properly. Now we have privatised the whole area of social protection.

My other question is around how much would people be paid. For example, if somebody living in Belmullet is taken randomly off the social welfare list and instructed to take up a position which may be up to one hour away in Castlebar or Ballina, he or she does not have a choice in the matter. The only payment they would be given is to keep the social welfare payment. How much would that person then be given in travel allowance? It says there are travel supports available, but there are no set-out travel costs available. If people are required to travel for up to one hour to a position, if they do not have the option of public transport, they have the cost of getting a car and insurance, including meeting the rising cost of motor insurance. It is grossly unfair to do that and it will end up costing people.

It is also said that there are supports for child care costs, but again there is ambiguity around that and how much people would get for child care. If it is decided to grant a child care allowance to them can that be given to a relative or to somebody who is a non-registered childminder? Again, there is no answer to that and it is at the discretion of the Department of Social Protection. I asked the Department if the person concerned has mental health difficulties will the Department accept a letter from a mental health practitioner or a GP to say this person is not fit to travel or to take up that position. Again, I could not get any answer to that question.

I am gravely concerned about the destruction being caused to people who are being forced onto these schemes just to take them off social welfare and to massage the figures in order that the Government can say state another person has been taken off social welfare or that they have been put on a boat or a plane and are no longer our responsibility. It is a matter of urgency. I ask the Leader to bring the Minister for Social Protection to the House to answer some of those questions. There are already dozens of complaints lodged about JobPath. Of course it is not only JobPath, it is also about many other schemes into which people are being forced or about their payments being cut completely, which is the nub of the problem. People are then dependent on the Society of St. Vincent de Paul to provide a roof over their head or to provide them with food for the week. It is wrong.

I call for a debate in the House on Ireland's response to the Syrian crisis and in particular our plans to help the child refugees who are fleeing Syria alone. This issue has been raised by other Members of the House, including by Senator Ray Butler last week. Night after night on television we watch helplessly the heartache of ordinary people. These people are like us and we wonder what we can do. There is something we agreed to do this time last year. Ireland agreed to take 4,000 refugees in the wake of what has been the biggest refugee crisis since the Second World War. In establishing the Irish refugee protection programme, The Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald highlighted the plight of unaccompanied children and she promised that special arrangements would be put in place to help these children. However, in the year to 19 September, despite the promised special effort, Ireland has only accepted one child according to the Ombudsman for Children. The Irish Times reported recently that Ireland has agreed to accept a further 20 children by the end of 2016. Over 109 unaccompanied children have applied for asylum in the European Union since the beginning of 2015. We can do so much better than helping just 21 children. Given Ireland's painful history with emigration and famine, it is so disappointing that we have not stepped up to the mark. The Minister said in the Dáil last year, "Ireland has always lived up to its international humanitarian obligations" and that the Government is fully committed to playing its part in addressing the current crisis. We need urgent action to live up to this promise, especially for vulnerable children. I would be grateful if the Leader could invite the Minister to the House to lay out her plans as to when we will reach the 4,000 target for refugees and our involvement in measures to support unaccompanied minors across Europe, particularly the children in Calais, and to explain why Ireland has not helped more children. We can, and we must, do so much better than we have to date to help the ordinary citizens and children of Aleppo and Syria who are caught in a living hell.

In recent years Ireland has enjoyed some level of relative industrial peace. At this stage, however, we have reached a grave situation. We are facing strike action by second-level teachers and by An Garda Síochána. Today's advertisement in the national newspapers seeking members of the public to go in to schools to perform supervision and substitution work is, at best, misguided and, at worst, completely misunderstands the nature of schools and how they operate. Yesterday the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Leo Varadkar, thought it was a good idea to say that the public would never view members of An Garda Síochána the same way again if they were to go on strike. That is an outrageous statement. It is clear that the Government, in particular Fine Gael, has no comprehension of how industrial relations work or how best to deal with trade unions or the public sector in general.

I suggest to the Leader that the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, should be invited to the House to discuss his announcements in the budget of a public pay commission to report by next summer. Surely we must realise that the situation in which we find ourselves is grave, that schools will close and that gardaí will not be on the streets. The response from Government seems to be a complete misunderstanding of the sensitivities involved, of the public sector and of how to deal with industrial relations. The response has been a "face them down" attitude which is not going to work. What the House does not need is any more hyperbole; therefore, I ask the Cathaoirleach and the Leader to respectfully request the Minister to attend to the matter to overcome the situation where our schools are going to close down and where gardaí are not on the street. If that was to happen in any other European member state, the assumption would be that its government had completely lost control of the situation. I ask that the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform come to the House to expand on his one line statement in the Budget Statement as to what is his vision for the public sector. It might contribute to a conversation on how we might avoid the situation of our schools closing, of gardaí not being on the street and of bitterness and rancour being in our schools and in our police force for years to come. If the Government's tone is to continue along the line of what the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Leo Varadkar, said yesterday, I worry that the situation will completely unravel

I support Senator Colette Kelleher's request that the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality come to the House to speak about the refugee crisis.

I thank all of the Senators who sent emails after I spoke about the situation in Aleppo last week. I wrote to the ambassador and have received a response that reads:

Dear Senator Mr. Butler,

Thank you for your letter. It is very interesting to know your point of view on the current situation in Aleppo. Unfortunately, I am afraid that your acquaintance with facts of what [is] going on in Syria ... and in Aleppo [is] particularly ... far from objectivity. I dare say that you use one-sided and preconceived information widely spread in ... Western mass media.

If you are interested in getting alternative point of view I would be ready to talk to you.

Sincerely,

AMBASSADOR ... PESHKOV.

I welcome the ceasefire that was called this morning. I do not think any of us in here have been brainwashed by western media when we see what has gone on in Aleppo. We know that atrocities have been perpetrated by all sides from barrel bombs to suicide bombers. What we have seen in the past couple of weeks is nothing but the slaughter of innocents. Women and children have been slaughtered. The other night on television we saw a young man being dragged out of a building but he was just a child or young boy. I do not need a Russian ambassador to tell me that I have been brainwashed or any of us in here have been brainwashed. We want the ceasefire to happen and women and children taken out of the city, given safe passage and looked after properly.

I compliment Senator Ray Butler on his initiative in that regard because it is important that the Seanad's voice be heard at home and abroad.

The position of the Seanad is very important. Two weeks ago I raised an issue with the Leader of the House, tabled a Commencement matter and it has been resolved. Sometimes people do not realise the effectiveness of the Seanad. In fact, I was a Deputy for more years than I have been a Senator; therefore, I know that it is as effective to make representations as a Senator as it was when I was a Deputy.

To allay fears, I have had an opportunity to look at the Ceramics Room in the National Museum of Ireland and found it to be an ideal location for the Seanad. The Senators and the Daily Mail should fear not because the building is ideal for the Seanad. It links into Leinster House on the right-hand side and was part of the RDS complex at one stage. As far as education purposes are concerned, when I visited the room in July nothing was happening so I do not know what Dr. Pat Wallace, who has retired from the National Museum of Ireland, meant. There will be plenty of opportunities on Mondays, Fridays and weekends to use the facility for lectures, which would be in beautiful surroundings with the furniture from this room. I disagree with the idea of relocating the Seanad outside of the capital because everyone works here as part of a team with public servants, civil servants and more. Therefore, we cannot afford that kind of relocation.

In respect of reform, the Seanad is working very well and if it is not broken then do not fix it. I was one of the Senators who was in this House when people voted to retain the Seanad. They voted because to my mind, it is and has been a very effective body. Let me explain. I recall that the leader of the Irish delegation to the Council of Europe is Senator Joe O'Reilly. Many of the members of the Council of Europe attended a meeting last week but Members of the Dáil were unable to attend due to the budget. At the meeting I put a question to President Hollande on Brexit and received a positive response. I am also Vice Chairman of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on European Union Affairs. This House serves a useful purpose as it is and through the Cathaoirleach, previous Cathaoirligh and previous Leaders it has built up an even stronger reputation than ever before.

The Senator is testing my indulgence.

I know, but what I have said is music to the Cathaoirleach's ears also, if he does not mind me saying so. I have praised the House over which he presides.

I thank the Senator.

(Interruptions).

We must carry on our work. If anyone in the media wants a Senator with the opposite view, I say to all of the Senators, whether it be Senator Michael McDowell or any other Senator, or even Dr. Maurice Manning or former Senator Joe O'Toole with their reports, that, as far as I am concerned, we should work with what we have, make it more effective and a voice for the people.

The Senator's comments on many issues will be noted.

It is hard to believe we have almost reached the end of October and are almost at the end of the historic centenary year of 2016. This year many events have taken place up and down the country not just to remember and reflect but I hope to rededicate and re-energise ourselves around the spirit and ideals of that era and the 1916 Rising.

I draw the attention of the Leader and all Members to correspondence I have received from Belfast historians - people with an interest and expertise in this area - on the last remaining prisoner of war, POW, hut on the Frongoch site in Wales. As the Leader will know, it was the site to which POWs who took part in the Easter Rising were relocated and held during that period. The site was dubbed as the university of revolution. It was a place and time where republican activists honed their political craft, studied guerrilla warfare and many other acts of revolution around the world in preparation for the revolutionary years of the Black and Tans war that lay ahead of them. The site would be of massive historical significance at any time but as we move towards the end of 2016, it reminds us that this last remaining hut, which has fallen into a degree of disrepair, is in need of being salvaged and retained for future generations. The hut is no longer on the site that was used to hold the prisoners. It has been relocated about a mile up the road. The man who owns the land has diligently worked to preserve and direct people who make the pilgrimage to Wales to the hut. He has tried to retain artefacts and to build up information in a voluntary capacity to make it a worthwhile trip for people. As we continue to mark this historic year, it is not over yet, it would be an opportune time for Members of the Seanad to raise our voices in support of the site. Today, I contacted the Minister responsible and raised the issue. I am happy to share my information, but I would like us to collectively raise our voices to ensure the hut is not lost but is preserved for future generations to visit. It would mean that the spirit and ideals honed and crafted in the POW camp can be learned about and put to good use.

Many small businesses were lost during the downturn. It would be great to have a system where a lot of those people could re-enter the economy because they are badly needed. Small businesses, in particular, will face a daunting task due to Brexit. I appeal to the Leader to invite the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor, to come here for a debate on providing more funding for local enterprise offices, LEOs. She did secure extra funding for LEOs in the budget, but more funding is required. LEOs can help to create start-up small businesses. They could act as a lifeblood and be the first port of call in local authorities for small businesses. LEOs can provide guidance and funding to get many small businesses off the ground. Such an initiative would play an important part in the future. We need small business enterprises in this country now more than ever. Small businesses will find things more difficult now than ever before, especially with Brexit. I can see a situation where small businesses will strive but will encounter a difficult period if Brexit comes to pass in 2019.

Will the Leader request the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation to come to the House to discuss the small business sector and sources of additional funding for local enterprise offices?

One image or storyline often defines a conflict or tragedy. For example, we often think of the iconic image of nine year old Kim Phuc, the girl pictured naked as she fled horrific violence in south Vietnam in 1972. In the midst of the carnage and the suffering she experienced as a result of severe burns on her back, there can seem to be no hope at times. Seventeen surgical procedures were performed during her 14-month stay in hospital. She survived and today lives with her husband and two children in Toronto. She also established the KIM Foundation in the United States, with the aim of providing medical and psychological assistance for children of war.

Much closer to home, we have seen the images of a three year old Syrian boy, Alan Kurdi, who perished in the Mediterranean and was washed ashore in Turkey in September 2015. As a father of a young boy, these images had a profound impact on me. In the midst of the terror being experienced by fleeing Syrian refugees, one heart warming story brought a smile to my face. Ahmed Soda, an 11 year old Syrian refugee, recently helped Patrick Sarsfields GAA Club win its first Antrim juvenile hurling title in many years. Ahmed and his family who are originally from Aleppo arrived in Belfast last December.

The crisis in Syria, specifically the humanitarian catastrophe in Aleppo, has been mentioned by many Senators. Last week, for example, the issue was raised by Senator Ray Butler. The Fianna Fáil Party spokesman in the Dáil, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, has been forthright in his condemnation of recent attacks on United Nations and Red Crescent convoys. I echo this condemnation and despair when I see media reports of medical and United Nations facilities being targeted and destroyed. In this context, I wholeheartedly support the comments of the Taoiseach who wants Ireland to introduce a Naval Service hospital ship to deal with global emergencies. It is perhaps fitting that he made this pronouncement earlier this week while launching a new Naval Service patrol vessel, the LE William Butler Yeats, named after a former Senator who served in the House in the 1920s. The introduction of a Naval Service hospital ship to deal with global emergencies would be a practical response to ongoing humanitarian catastrophes throughout the world.

The incredible work of the Naval Service and the crews of the LE James Joyce, LE Róisín, LE Eithne, LE Niamh and LE Samuel Beckett is an inspiration to us all. The trauma Naval Service officers will have encountered is hard to comprehend. As a medic working on the west coast, I regularly liaise closely with the Irish Coast Guard and experience at first hand its members' bravery and commitment to serving the public while putting their lives in danger. They face danger on every call-out. The crews of Naval Service vessels working in the Mediterranean deal with hundreds of traumatic scenarios daily.

The image of young Ahmed Soda with his hurley among friends in west Belfast provides an important counter-balance to the awfulness unfolding in his home city and country. This is what we must all focus on as we recommit to Ireland playing its part in dealing with the humanitarian crisis unfolding in the Middle East and the Mediterranean.

This afternoon the Union of Students of Ireland, USI, will hold a demonstration which will move from the Garden of Remembrance to Merrion Square to highlight students' objection to any prospect of a "study now, pay later" model being introduced for third level education. The demonstration is a response to the Cassells report published earlier this year which suggested that one possible solution to third level funding problems would be the introduction of an income contingent loan scheme. Such a scheme would effectively mean hiking fees up to €5,000 per annum, thereby leaving students with debts of up to €25,000 on graduation. This figure does not take into consideration the cost of accommodation and living expenses incurred during four years of study. Third level education is already a two-tier system in which some can afford to go to college, while others are forced to miss out, emigrate or enter low paid employment. An income contingent loan scheme would exacerbate existing inequalities in the third level education system. Those who would find the money to afford such a scheme would become members of a generation of young people who would have an education mortgage hanging from around their necks. Such a scheme would condition young people to take the first job that came along, regardless of whether it paid low wages or had poor working conditions, all of which would result in young workers undervaluing their worth in the labour force.

It is great that the Union of Students of Ireland has organised today's march and good that it has the support of SIPTU, IMPACT, the TUI, the National Youth Council of Ireland and Sinn Féin Republican Youth. This issue goes to the heart of the ideological difference between the parties. We know that the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Richard Bruton, is very much in the neoliberal wing of the Fine Gael Party and chomping at the bit to introduce a student loan scheme, whereas those of us on the left believe in building equality into the education system. I call on the Leader to ask the Minister back to the House for a decent debate on the proposed loan system in order that we can find out where each of the parties stands on the matter.

I agree with previous speakers on the wording used when dealing with ongoing industrial relations disputes. There appears to be a media view that if a demand is made, the Government must be in a position to pay. There is no significant debate in the media on the fact that it is the taxpayer rather than the Government who must pay increased costs in the public service. We must be careful about how we report matters. Additional gardaí have been recruited and trained and the Government has made a commitment to recruit more. It should be noted that the Garda Training College in Templemore was closed by the Government in 2010-11. It has also given a commitment to recruit an additional 2,400 teachers. It is allocating funding for Garda and teacher recruitment. It is important to realise that it is taxpayers who are providing the additional moneys required to do so. Balanced debate is needed and we must set out clearly that a substantial increase in the cost of providing services requires an increase in taxation.

More than two years ago I raised the issue of access officers in local authorities. Each local authority is supposed to have an access officer. I find the interpretation of the role of access officer strange as it varies significantly from one local authority to another. Some view the role of access officer as one of ensuring access to public buildings for people with disabilities, while others view it as one of ensuring people with disabilities can access various services and meeting the requirement to adapt inadequate housing accommodation for people with disabilities. The relevant Minister must come to the House to set out clearly what is the role of access officers. If the legislation which requires local authorities to provide an access officer is inadequate, we must introduce amending legislation. We are falling down in this area and should stop passing the buck. The cost of addressing the problem would not be significant. The Minister must come to the House and local authorities must respond accordingly.

It has been brought to my attention that sick children in Our Lady's Children's Hospital in Crumlin are being served sugar-laden foods as part of their diet while in hospital. Moreover, the person who brought the matter to my attention, a woman whose child is in hospital, could not find anything healthy to eat in the hospital shop or vending machines on the hospital site. This is shocking as it contravenes recommendations from international health organisations that babies and children under two years should have as close as possible to a zero sugar intake. According to a prominent study by the American Heart Association, there is strong evidence to support the association of added sugars with an increased cardiovascular disease risk in children. Research has also shown that adding sugar to a baby's food increases sweet cravings and instils a sugar dependency at a young age. As the baby grows, he or she will eat sugary foods ahead of others, leading to obesity and many other illnesses.

A high sugar content in baby food also significantly increases the risk of tooth decay in babies. It is very depressing to think of a child having to have his or her milk teeth removed because of a sugary diet. Obviously, it naturally increases the incidence of obesity and diabetes in future years. When it comes to Crumlin children's hospital, the irony is that sick children are being served disease-inducing sugary foods in a State health facility, while a large sugar awareness poster is hanging in the corridors. It is all well and good to announce that we are going to have healthy eating and a healthy approach in hospitals. However, that is very superficial if we are actually going to serve pasta with sugary tomato sauce on it to children while they are sick in hospital. I want us to have a meaningful debate in this House on childhood obesity, with a particular emphasis on this issue. If it needs to be a debate on obesity generally, that is fine, but a debate on childhood obesity is long overdue. I would really welcome it if the Leader asked the Minister for Health, Deputy Simon Harris, to come to the House to tell us what is happening as regards the announcement he made last year, which I welcome and commend, that we would try to instil healthy eating habits in hospitals. That does not seem to be happening. Pasta with Dolmio sauce or one of the sugary sauces on it is simply not good enough for children who are sick.

There have been very sinister happenings in the past few years which I do not think people fully recognise and I do not know how we can deal with them. I refer to football hooliganism at League of Ireland matches. Very small crowds are attending these matches. I read that last weekend that casuals from Bury and Wrexham were siding with Shamrock Rovers supporters and fighting Bohemians supporters. This has been ongoing for quite a while and it is something I have raised before. I am very concerned that public safety could be at risk. The Garda has to deal with perhaps 50 or 100 fans fighting with one another. It does not happen at Gaelic football matches. I was a League of Ireland supporter and a Republic of Ireland supporter 30 years ago and this is a worrying trend. I would like to find out what exactly it is costing to police these events. Casuals are coming here from Wrexham and Bury and it appears that they are siding with supporters of Shamrock Rovers, Bohemians or otherwise. These are not the tourists we want. We need to have a debate on the issue and look at legislation on banning orders. I believe one senior member of the Garda said there was nothing that he could do. There are no banning orders to stop somebody who is intent on causing mayhem and trouble and throwing bottles from attending these matches. I am concerned that it is an issue we are allowing to go under the radar. We have a great reputation as Republic of Ireland socer team and GAA supporters. This is a tiny minority who seem to have a voice. They must be stopped. We should have a debate on the issue.

I thank the 14 Senators who contributed on the Order of Business. I completely agree with Senator Mark Daly on the need to transform the organ donation infrastructure. The committee I chaired in the last Oireachtas completed a comprehensive report on organ donation and, in particular, the need to change the model to a soft opt-out system. The Senator is right that that is part of the difficulty. Advertising or awareness raising will not meet the need for people to make organ donations. There is a need to change the infrastructure in dealing with the issue of dialysis in hospitals. The retirement of Dr. David Hickey has highlighted the vacuum. There is a need for consensus and a buy-in on all sides on organ donation. As somebody who, when in college, worked in a dialysis unit in Cork University Hospital, I am aware of the importance of the issue. I saw the range of emotions and trauma associated with dialysis and organ donation. The Senator is right that we need a change of approach to have a completely different system. I hope we can work to that end.

Senator Mark Daly also referred to Orkambi. He knows quite well that the National Centre for Pharmacoeconomics and the HSE make the decision. I am told that the HSE is involved in negotiations with the manufacturer of the drug to reduce the cost, particularly for cystic fibrosis patients. I agree with the Senator completely that we must look at ways by which we can make medications and life-changing or life-altering drugs available. Whether they are high-tech or high-cost is immaterial. It is about the preservation of life and the quality of life we can give, including to the people to whom the Senator referred. We have already done so with some of the cystic fibrosis drugs and other drugs used to treat multiple sclerosis. I do not see any reason we cannot see that change. It is important, therefore, that we keep the pressure on the Department and the HSE in the case of the drug to which the Senator referred.

Senator Victor Boyhan also raised the issue of organ donation.

With regard to Senator Mark Daly's Private Members' Bill which is to be taken this afternoon, I am not aware if the Minister will be in the House because he was away yesterday. I cannot give the Senator a definitive answer, but I am sure one of the Ministers of State will be present. I do not have an answer for the Senator on the issue of the payment made to the 4,000 people who are working overnight, but I will raise it with the Department.

Senator Rose Conway-Walsh raised the issue of social protection and said there was a need for the Minister for Social Protection to come to the House again to discuss it. To be honest, it might be appropriate to raise it in the debate on the Social Welfare Bill, but if I can arrange a stand-alone discussion, I will certainly try to do so.

I just think JobPath deserves to be the subject of a focused session.

As the Senator knows, timelines are tight, but I will be happy to try to facilitate her in that regard.

Senators Colette Kelleher, Ray Butler and Keith Swanick referred to the situation in Syria. As Members know, an all-party motion is being circulated and I hope it will be signed by the different groups as it is important that we send a unified message. We can argue about a sentence or a word here or there in the motion, but the overwhelming response from us should be a unified one in condemnation of what is taking place there. We can apportion blame in a different debate. We can argue until the cows come home about the example Senator Keith Swanick gave and the imagery Senator Ray Butler used in referring to the response he had received from the Russian ambassador, but people are being killed and displaced. Quality of life is being ruined and lives are being lost. It behoves all of us, therefore, to work to bring about a resolution. Whether one is a permanent member of the Security Council or a Member of Seanad Éireann, we must all work to ensure what we see happening in Aleppo and Syria is not condoned but condemned. We must all work to bring about a resolution.

I will be happy to arrange for the Minister for Justice and Equality to come to the House to address the issue of vulnerable children, to whom Senator Colette Kelleher referred. I know from talking to the Minister and her commentary in different fora that she is very progressive in dealing with the issue. I will be happy to talk to the Senator again about it.

Senator Aodhán Ó Ríordáin raised the very important issue of industrial relations. I am not going to pick a political fight with the Senator who is somebody who has very much been on the picket line with the ASTI, but it behoves everyone to engage in negotiations. I would have thought that the tone of the Ministers was conciliatory. If one reads the language used by the Ministers, Deputies Paschal Donohoe, Richard Bruton and Frances Fitzgerald, one will see that it is about engaging in talks.

It is not conciliatory about a job advert.

One cannot engage in megaphone diplomacy on issues of such sensitivity to do with An Garda Síochána, the ASTI, the GRA, the AGSI, doctors or whoever else. One cannot do so on the airwaves or television. The important point I wish to make is that I fully understand the frustration of members of An Garda Síochána. If Senators live and operate in the real world, they will hear their stories. They date back decades. One can judge the morale of gardaí from the internal workings of An Garda Síochána and the pay issues. Senator Aodhán Ó Ríordáin's party leader, the former Minister, Deputy Brendan Howlin, was very much involved in the negotiation of the Lansdowne Road agreement. A public sector pay commission is being established. There is one way to resolve the issues involved and that is through the industrial relations mechanisms of the State. The vast majority of unions have signed up to pay restoration. I speak every day to colleagues of mine in schools and members of An Garda Síochána. The Government does not want to be in dispute with unions, in this case public sector unions. The Minister for Justice and Equality has been quite clear - the way to resolve the issues involved is to talk. I appeal, therefore, to all sides - the Government and the unions - to become involved in the process. I look forward to the issues being resolved.

Will she come to talk to us?

She was here last week.

Will she come to talk to us specifically about pay restoration?

She was here last week. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Richard Bruton-----

No, with respect, I asked the Leader a direct question.

Please allow him to respond.

I will respond. There will be no obfuscation on my part. Hillary Clinton made a remark in the first US presidential debate and it transcends a lot of what is happening in this country. She said "language is important." How we operate and communicate are critical. I will ask the Minister to come to the House. I will have no issue in doing so.

I commend Senator Terry Leyden for his work at the Council of Europe. It is important that he, with other Members of the House and the leader of the delegation, Senator Joe O'Reilly, work to have our case heard in Europe, particularly post-Brexit.

I refer to the relocation of the Seanad which is the Upper House of the Oireachtas. A process is being undertaken. I pay tribute to the Cathaoirleach and the former Cathaoirleach, Senator Paddy Burke, for the work they undertook in bringing the matter to a resolution. There would be no benefit or gain in continuing a public discourse on the issue. I appeal to all Members to accept that the process will continue and I am sure we will find a suitable home for this august body of Members.

We have found a new home and it is lovely.

On the matter of the hut raised by Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile, he might make representations directly to the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Heather Humphreys, or table a Commencement matter. I will, however, be happy to take up the issue if he gives me the details.

Senator Paddy Burke referred to small businesses. I agree that they are the backbone of the economy and join him in commending the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor, for securing increased funding for the local enterprise offices. He is correct that they require further funding. I will be happy to have the Minister or the Minister of State, Deputy Pat Breen, come to the House to discuss the matter.

I commend Senator Keith Swanick for bringing such great imagery to the story he told the House. I hope we can all work to bring the issue to a resolution.

With regard to the Naval Service, I do not have the exact title for which the Senator is looking for the hospital ship. It is, however, an idea at which we should look. I join the Senator and hope all Members will join us in commending the men and women of the Naval Service who have done huge work in the Mediterranean in saving lives. From talking to the men and women who serve we are aware of the trauma they experience in taking bodies from the water and the effect it has on them. It makes us understand better the importance of the work they do. Sometimes newspaper reports do not illustrate or quantify in real terms the work they do and the impact it has on their lives.

Senator Paul Gavan has pointed out that USI members are demonstrating today, as is their right. The Cassells report has been referred to the education committee to be discussed. I share the Senator's view that the right to an education is one we should all have. The funding of third level education is being prioritised by the Government. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Richard Bruton, will come back to the House to discuss the action plan for education, with particular reference to third level education. There has certainly been an under-funding of education. In that regard, there is a need to increase further the capitation payment in the funding of third level education. I look forward to discussing how we can do this. Senator Colm Burke is right that we only have a certain amount of money to spend. If we were to adopt Senator Paul Gavan's payment plan model, we would have to increase taxation across the board. That is in line with the fact that Sinn Féin is a high tax party, but that is a choice it has to make.

Senator Colm Burke also raised the very important issue of the role of the access officer. I will be happy to have the Minister come to the House to discuss it.

Senator Catherine Noone referred to the consumption of sugar and the type and quality of hospital food served. This issue comes within the remit of Healthy Ireland and the task force on childhood obesity. I will be happy to have the Minister of State, Deputy Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, come to the House to discuss it.

Senator Frank Feighan raised the very important issue of football hooliganism. I hope it can be taken on board in the FAI's strategic plan. To be fair to Mr. John Delaney and the FAI, they have been vigilant and worked hard to ensure grounds are free of football hooliganism. There are family enclosures and family tickets available. The FAI is to be commended for the work it has done in that regard. I agree with the Senator that outside influences from across the Irish Sea are not welcome and the FAI should ensure they do not take hold.

Order of Business agreed to.
Sitting suspended at 12.25 p.m. and resumed at 12.50 p.m.
Top
Share