I welcome the Minister and call on him to address the House.
Climate Action and Low Carbon Development: Statements
It is an honour. It is a long time since I addressed the Seanad two days in a row. I am delighted to be here again today.
The Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015 provides that an annual transition statement must be presented to both Houses of the Oireachtas. This is the first such statement. In addition to this oral report, I have arranged for a written statement to be laid in the Oireachtas Library. The 2015 Act prescribes that the annual transition statement must include an overview of climate change mitigation and adaptation policy measures adopted to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases and to adapt to the effects of climate change to enable the achievement of the objective of transitioning to a low carbon, climate resilient and environmentally sustainable economy by the end of 2050. The statement must also include a record of emissions of greenhouse gases set out in the most recent inventory prepared by the Environmental Protection Agency, a projection of future greenhouse gases emissions and a report on compliance with obligations of the State under EU law or an international agreement referred to in section 2 of the 2015 Act. I will pick up on each of these areas in the course of my address.
There is incontrovertible evidence that global warming is threatening life on our planet. The planet is heating up and our activity is the main cause. Observations show that global average temperatures have increased by 0.85° Celsius since 1850. The atmosphere and ocean have warmed, the amounts of snow and ice have diminished and sea levels have risen as the concentrations of greenhouse gases have increased.
We might think we are immune in Ireland. Let us make no mistake about it: Ireland's climate is already changing too. Winters will become wetter and summers drier. We may see milder winter temperatures benefiting certain sections of the community. However, this will be offset by the potential for heat waves during summer. Rising seas will also increase the risk of coastal inundation. Storm surge events will increase in frequency. There is likely to be increased flows in river catchments with obvious consequences for flooding. Let us think back to this day 12 months ago and the discussions we had in this House following Storm Desmond and the subsequent severe winter and serious flooding.
Further impacts include a heightened risk of water shortages in summer, an increased risk of new pests and diseases, poor water quality and changes in the types of plants and animals on land and in the oceans. No one in the House requires reminding of the consequences. Let us be clear that the potential impacts for Ireland are serious and they have already partially arrived.
Where is Ireland now in terms of emissions? The Environmental Protection Agency has reported in its most recent inventory that emissions for 2015 are estimated to be 59.84 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent - some 3.7% higher than emissions in 2014. According to the agency, these figures indicate that Ireland will be in compliance with its 2015 annual limit, set under the EU 2009 effort sharing decision, but is on course to exceed the limit in 2016 or 2017.
The most recent projections were published by the agency in March 2016. They provide an updated assessment of Ireland's progress towards achieving its emission reduction targets set in the 2009 EU effort sharing decision for the years 2013-20. Ireland's 2020 target is to be achieved by a 20% reduction in non-EU-ETS sector emissions on 2005 levels with annual binding limits set for each year over the period 2013-20.
The March 2016 EPA projections indicate that emissions for 2020 will be in the range of 6% to 11% below 2005 levels, depending on whether additional policies or measures beyond those already in place by the end of 2014 are implemented. This shortfall reflects our constrained investment capacity over the decade between 2008 and 2019 due to the economic crisis, including the impact of the troika programme and the EU fiscal governance requirements. All of this means we will not meet our 2020 target, which may, in any case, be inappropriate in terms of cost-effectiveness.
A number of my colleagues and I are actively engaged at Council level to try to release the purse strings in respect of the accountancy treatment of investment in the energy efficiency area and in the climate area in general. In fact, we had a discussion on Monday at the EU Council energy meeting in which the Spanish, Portuguese, Maltese, Cypriots and ourselves were positively disposed to pushing this further, as is the European Commission. The Commission has been taking up these matters directly with EUROSTAT. We are hoping to make progress on it. We can access finance cheaply. The difficulty is that, because of fiscal rules, we are not allowed to undertake certain borrowing. I hope we can make progress on that in the short term.
A Programme for a Partnership Government recognises the importance of meeting the challenges Ireland is facing on climate. As the first Minister with responsibility for climate action, which incorporates responsibility for environment and energy, I steered Irish ratification of the Paris Agreement through the Dáil, which completed the process on 4 November. The Paris Agreement is the basis for doing more and for allowing communities here, in concert with countries throughout the world, to take decisive actions which will ultimately safeguard our shared future on this planet.
The word "global" in the term "global warming" accurately summarises the incontrovertible science underlying the threat facing our planet. It also underlines the vastness and potentially daunting, if even discouraging, challenge we face. How can any one country, especially a small country, make a difference? How can any one of us make a meaningful contribution? The task of politics is to bridge the chasm between the global challenge and national responsibility, between Ireland's obligation and the responsibility of every citizen. It may be a tired truism that we cannot change the world. However, when it comes to climate change, it is a pressing fact that the world cannot change without us.
Our obligations under the Paris Agreement will be undertaken through a range of climate action plans known as nationally determined contributions. These will address 95% of the world's emissions. Ireland will make a technically feasible, cost-effective and fair contribution to this global effort with the European Union and member states. The European Union commits overall to at least a 40% reduction in EU-wide emissions by 2030, compared to 1990 levels, based on reductions in the emissions trading system sector of 43% and the non-ETS sector of 30%.
In budget 2017 a significant start was made. More than €100 million will be invested in energy projects that will save over 116,000 tonnes in carbon emissions each year. These will support approximately 3,000 jobs and reduce our overall dependence on imported fossil fuels. A total of €7 million is being allocated to kick-start a new renewable heat incentive and the biofuels industry. We expect to see this developed significantly in the coming years. More energy-efficient homes mean people spend less money on energy, enjoy a more comfortable lifestyle in their homes and gain health benefits. That, in turn, will take pressure off health services. Tomorrow morning, we will be launching one of those pilot initiatives in Tallaght with the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Katharine Zappone, and the Minister for Health, Deputy Simon Harris. It is a warmth and well-being scheme. The idea is to carry out a deep retrofit investment in Dublin 12 and Dublin 24. We will be identifying people over the age of 55 years with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and looking at the impact of the initiative not only on the comfort of their homes and energy use, but the impact on the health service and their quality of life also.
It will be interesting to see the returns from the research in this respect. Anecdotally, we are getting very positive feedback from the investment we have already carried out this year.
This is not just about investment. There is also a need to think differently in areas such as waste. We have a long road ahead of us with regard to waste. We discard four fifths of everything we produce after one use. We recycle just 1g out of every 100g of valuable rare earth resources that are in products. We have to treat waste as a resource rather than as something that is just thrown away, as we have done in the past. The discussion on waste is quite topical. Waste policy must become a model for resource efficiency. We need to use less and live better. When waste is viewed from a life cycle perspective, it is estimated that greenhouse gas emissions arising from materials management activities account for over half of all emissions in developed economies. This suggests there are significant opportunities potentially to reduce emissions through modifications and expansion of material management policies. Using fewer resources means less energy needs to be produced and fewer emissions are discharged.
Food is a raw material that we have in abundance in this country. Ireland generates 2 tonnes of food waste every minute of every day. The aim of the Stop Food Waste programme, which is funded under the Environmental Protection Agency, is for householders and businesses to target food waste reductions. We have a long way to go. According to statistics, Ireland is the fifth worst country in Europe from a food waste perspective. I want to see us being the best country in Europe not only in terms of quality food production but also in food efficiency. I will announce an initiative in this area shortly.
I know that transport emissions are of great concern. We need to find different ways of looking at the challenges we face. A far more radical way of addressing this country's unique transport challenges would be to reduce the need to travel in the first instance. The national broadband plan allows people to work from home and in their own communities, thereby removing the need for long commutes. All three bidders involved in the current tendering process under the national broadband plan propose a predominantly fibre-to-the-home network solution to connect rural Ireland. I want people to understand that this means the vast majority of consumers in rural areas will be able to access a broadband service of up to 1,000 Mbps. This will radically transform the economy of provincial towns in rural Ireland. It will take pressure off congested roads and major urban centres. It will reduce emissions and improve air quality.
We are developing a new public sector energy efficiency action plan which will be in place before the end of the year, subject to Government approval. The plan will look radically at how we drive energy efficiency in the public sector. We are looking at how to incentivise individual schools, hospitals and public sector buildings throughout the country to become more energy efficient. It is easy to do that in private business where the direct savings can be seen when there is additional money in the cashflow of businesses. It is far more complex in the public sector. I look forward to making an announcement in this regard in the coming weeks. Work is also under way on the development of a renewable electricity support scheme, a renewable electricity policy and development framework, and new planning guidelines for wind farms.
While climate policy has been primarily focused on the issue of reducing emissions, I am also prioritising the development of a national adaptation framework to ensure we address climate resilience. Progress is being made with the first national framework and, at sectoral level, with the development of sectoral adaptation plans, including a plan for the local government sector. I know many Members of the House have a significant interest in the local authority sector. We are focusing on public sector lighting, which accounts for approximately 50% of the electricity bills of local authorities. We are working closely with the ESB on an initiative to reduce dramatically the electricity consumption of local authorities. The money that will be saved as a consequence of lower electricity bills will be reinvested in communities rather than being used to worsen our emissions record.
I am fully committed to addressing the challenges ahead. I intend to adopt a consultative approach as I do so. I hope to be in a position to publish shortly the first national mitigation plan, which must be finalised by next June. This will ensure everyone can contribute fully to the societal transformation process and inform the actions identified by key sectors in developing a coherent and effective plan. Under the plan, every Department will have to take steps to meet the challenges in front of us. In the coming weeks, I will publish an initial consultation on the clean air strategy for Ireland with a view to developing an ambitious plan in line with EU policy that seeks to protect the health of our citizens and fully recognises the links between energy use and the quality of the air we breathe. I would like to mention one statistic in that context. Poor air quality in Ireland contributes to the deaths of four people every single day, which has a consequential impact on our health service and puts pressure on our hospital system. If significant progress is made with air quality, not only will it save lives and take pressure off our health service, it will also have short and long-term impacts on the environment and our climate.
Regarding renewable energy, I intend to begin a process of public consultation on the renewable heat incentive scheme in the next couple of weeks. I will also give details of a joint venture between two of our semi-State companies that seeks to optimise the supply and management of a sustainable biomass industry for Ireland. All of these elements will comprise a key part of Ireland's national climate dialogue which I hope to launch formally early in 2017. We need to recognise fully the seriousness of the threat that climate change represents. It is important we embrace and maximise the opportunities that the low-carbon transition will present. Young people will be central to this because they will inherit the consequences of our actions today. Our collective ambition cannot fail them. They will live in the transformed sustainable economy of the future, which will be underpinned by green growth and jobs.
In making this transition we must also be mindful of today's reality. We must harness the potential of the green economy to create alternative jobs for people working in industries that will become displaced over time. For example, I am planning a transition from peat-fired electricity generation to generation supported by indigenous sustainable biomass. New jobs will replace old jobs. Our rural communities will be sustained and will prosper. It is only if we manage the change in this way that we will maintain the faith of civil society and bring people with us in addressing the threat to our planet and our country that climate change represents. I commend Ireland’s first annual transition statement to the House.
I welcome the Minister, Deputy Denis Naughten. Both of us are from the Roscommon-Galway constituency. I commend him for his excellent presentation and the details he has outlined. He has put a great deal of work into his plans. I hope he has the time to implement them.
So do I.
So say all of us.
I presume the Minister will come to the House shortly to introduce the emergency legislation that is proposed in the postal sector. I do not agree with his decision to allow a free-for-all as far as postage is concerned. The law of diminishing returns applies in that context. If the price of a stamp is increased to 93 cent, fewer people will use the postal service.
While he is present, I must say that I cannot understand why the Minister is responsible for communications and An Post but is not responsible for the sub-post offices-----
On a point of order, we are here discussing climate change, which is the most important issue. The price of a stamp is important, but this is not the time.
What is the Senator's point of order?
There is a clear agenda for this sitting and it is not related to An Post or the price of a stamp but to climate change. I ask the Senator to stick to it because time is valuable.
I will be ruled by the Acting Chairman.
I ask all speakers to stick to the schedule.
I am not going to be ruled by Senator Kevin Humphreys. I have my own view and an opportunity to put it straight to the Minister. I did not go on the airwaves or to the newspapers. I am only saying with the Minister present that I urge caution in that regard. I am sorry that An Post seem to be going through a very critical stage. It is amazing how it has emerged so quickly.
With regard to wind farms, I note that the Minister is proposing new planning guidelines. That should be welcomed. I visited the wind farm in Sliabh Bawn. I do not know whether the Minister has had the opportunity to pass through it. He probably has. I must say it certainly is a blight on the landscape. If I lived down there, I think I would find it very difficult to live under 20 wind turbines. I know that we want renewable energy. I know that the policy of the State is to try to maximise the amount of renewable energy. I welcome the proposed planning guidelines that will ensure wind farms are not located so close to residential areas.
In Germany and other locations national primary network roads are used by putting wind farms alongside them. That generally does not disturb individuals and that could be looked at. I accept the amount of wind and air in locations has to be checked but it is an area that I believe could be exploited to some extent. The ones I saw in Germany were actually quite attractive on the national primary routes. I was driving from Frankfurt to Strasbourg. In that region there are quite a number of them. Those guidelines should be published as quickly as possible. There is also the question of locating wind farms in non-tourist areas, which also would be very welcome.
I welcome the Minister's proposal for housing energy and the provision of grants. I welcome that he is providing quite a considerable amount of money and creating 3,000 jobs. He might consider extending that scheme to schools. Quite a number of national schools in particular do not actually have a hot water facility, believe it or not, in this day and age. The Minister could provide some sort of grant to provide solar panels to re-equip most of the schools with solar energy to give them the energy to heat water in particular. It is a proven technology and I believe it would be welcome in saving energy in schools and as a lesson for young people in schools on the benefit of alternative energy and solar panels. I make that suggestion. I hope Senator Kevin Humphreys approves of this part of my speech. Am I in order to continue or is he going to rule me out or something?
I ask the Senator not to invite comment.
Thank you. I just would have been concerned if that was the case.
Solar panel farms have been brought to the Minister's attention. I am not sure of the economics of it, but I know the Minister's Department is examining it. The Minister might tell us if there is an actual policy in place or if the Department is researching it. There are areas of cutaway bogs belonging to Bord na Móna that I believe would be ideal locations for that type of solar panel farm. I have reservations about using solar panel farms on land that could be used for agricultural purposes. One cannot farm underneath the panels as they are raised from the ground. I ask the Minister to look at that situation afresh on the basis that there is quite a growth in companies trying to contact him. I know that he has been lobbied quite extensively about this. I would like to hear the views of the Department on the benefits of solar panels. For instance, there are obviously going to be major solar farms in the Sahara. That is obvious. However, in our climate I wonder if it can be economically viable to have that type of farm, as it would require a grant and support aid also.
As far as Fianna Fáil is concerned, we fully support and have a strong record in government of introducing progressive measures to tackle climate change. It is the greatest single threat to the future of our children and grandchildren. By contrast, the outgoing Government repeatedly ducked and dived on tackling climate change. Its policies lacked strategic vision and have fundamentally failed. That is why I welcome the appointment of Deputy Denis Naughten as the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment. I believe he has a real feeling for the task ahead and there is a change of emphasis in that regard.
Agricultural production has been accused of providing gases which are affecting the environment. Those gases have always been present. There is nothing new coming from cows in that regard. We are doing our utmost in plantation. Planting trees and the encouragement of it comes under the Minister's Department also. It is a great support. When we were in government for a period with the Green Party, we became greened in that particular period from 2007 to 2011.
Maybe a tinge.
They were a help in that regard. There is a Green Party Member present.
They were a help.
It certainly focused attention on particular areas.
They helped Fianna Fáil crash.
I disagree with the Minister's policy on the elimination of fishing for eel which he brought forward. I am sorry about that because it was not great. However, that is another day's work.
I compliment the Minister who has put forward a very good policy document. I believe he is extremely innovative in what he is doing. He has taken to this task very well. I wish him every continued success in his Department. He is very accessible to the public down in his constituency but also to the industry by supporting initiatives. He very much has an open mind. He has noted the schools suggestion and I know he will look at that situation. Will it be done, will it create more jobs and be beneficial? I think the Minister is absolutely 100%. I congratulate him on getting agreement on the Paris accord and his Cabinet colleagues to agree to it also.
I thank the Senator for a very broad-ranging contribution. I welcome the presence in the Visitors Gallery of a former Member of both this House and the Lower House, Fintan Coogan. It is very nice to see him back and I hope he is enjoying his visit with his friends.
I welcome the Minister and I acknowledge what he has said in his annual transition statement. I note that he has arranged for a written version of this document to be lodged in the Oireachtas Library. I must confess that I consider this transition statement to be somewhat complacent and will set out the reason I think it is complacent. In his opening statement the Minister said the following:
The 2015 Act prescribes that the annual transition statement must include an overview of climate change mitigation and adaptation policy measures adopted to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases and to adapt to the effects of climate change to enable the achievement of the objective of transitioning to a low-carbon, climate-resilient and environmentally-sustainable economy by the end of 2050. The statement must also include a record of emissions of greenhouse gases set out in the most recent inventory prepared by the Environmental Protection Agency, a projection of future greenhouse gases emissions and a report on compliance with obligations of the State under EU law or an international agreement referred to in section 2 of the 2015 Act.
Does the aural version of the report do that? To be candid, I do not think it does. I think it skirts around the issue and engages in a good deal of circumlocution while it describes what has taken place.
I am privileged to be a member of the Oireachtas joint committee that marks the Minister's Department. About a month ago, the other members and I were treated to a very complacent presentation by the Minister's officials. We were told that further work was in progress. To our dismay, about a fortnight after the hearing, the EPA produced a report, which must have been in draft both in the Department and in the EPA at the time of the hearing, that showed that Ireland's position was far worse than the material supplied to the committee might have suggested at first glance. To be clear, this report, dated 10 November 2016, was accompanied by the EPA director general saying in a press release that "Ireland's economy is growing strongly again and that the growth in the number of people at work benefits all society."
She added: "However, we haven't yet achieved a decoupling of economic growth from emissions, something most evident in the transport sector." She later commented: "Ireland is not currently on the right track to meet its 2020 targets, nor is it on the right emissions trajectory to meet future EU targets or our national 2050 decarbonisation goals." That is frank speaking, even if it is quite diplomatic. The Minister has not said that here today. He has not said we are way off target. When one looks at the constituents of how we are off target, they show that agricultural emissions were up in 2015. The most significant drivers for that were higher dairy cow numbers, representing a 7.7% increase. According to the EPA, this reflects the national plans to expand milk production under Food Wise 2025 and the removal of the milk quotas in 2015. Emissions increased by 4.2% in transport and have now increased by 9% in the last three years. We are going in the wrong direction.
It also dealt with the matter of diesel and nitrous oxide emissions. Emissions in the energy industry sector as a result of power generation increased by 5.4% in 2015 compared with 2014. The increase in emissions is largely attributable to a substantial increase in electricity generation from coal, which is up 19.6%, which is almost 20%, and a decrease in natural gas use of 5.5%. Emissions in the residential sector are up 5.1%. Emissions from manufacturing, combustion and industrial processes increased significantly. Cement production was up 13% in 2015. As the country recovers from the slump, all the figures are going very seriously in the wrong direction from the point of view of compliance with our targets in 2030 or 2015.
Ireland's EU target for 2020 is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from the non-emissions trading scheme sector by 20% on 2005 levels. Ms Burke, the EPA's chief executive said:
The EPA’s most recent greenhouse gas emission projections published in March this year, projected that Ireland would not meet its 2020 target, with emission reductions likely to be in the range of 6-11% below 2005 levels. The greenhouse gas emission increases for 2015 in this report suggest that achieving reductions, even at the lower end of that range, will be difficult.
That is diplomatic speak for saying it is abandoned and will not happen. We can wish all we like that things might change but we are on the wrong trajectory. If the EPA's views on this matter are giving us any guidance on where we will be in 2050 or 2030 or to comply with our Paris Convention obligations, all the indications are that we are on a seriously wrong course. In every area our economic growth which we want to achieve and are determined to achieve seems to be coupled directly with increases in greenhouse gas. It is all very well to talk about electric cars and about people changing from petrol to diesel or diesel to petrol or whatever it is, but if our agriculture sector is going to increase, and the Minister is the first to say that will happen, there must be serious decreases in other areas. If energy production is going to boost our greenhouse gases in the way it is, the people who say they are against natural gases being found either on land or offshore, should face up to the fact that our coal produced energy went up by 20% in one year. These are serious statistics.
Like Senator Terry Leyden, I wish the Minister well in his job. This report does not comply with the statutory duty which is to give us the projections. Where are the projections in what we have heard this afternoon? I do not see projections. I hear diplomatic language being used to cover the fact that we do not have a snowball's chance in hell of achieving the targets we have set ourselves. I do not want to be pessimistic or Cassandra-like and I take no pleasure in saying this, but I became aware of it in the Joint Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment, of which Deputy Eamon Ryan, Senator Terry Leyden and I are members. We were given a whole set of statistics about a month ago and within a fortnight we discovered that the real picture was far worse. Today we are not really being given projections which the transition statements are supposed to provide. What may be lurking beneath us in the Oireachtas Library is a real transition statement in which all the projections are set out. If the projections are set out there, they should be up here for us to hear and not left downstairs where we have to find out for ourselves.
I welcome the Minister to the Chamber, to which he is becoming a regular visitor. He has been here twice in 24 hours. It is an important step and an important statement that he has made.
I do not know if it will be the process from now on, but it is the first time that we have had annual transition statements made to the Seanad. It is an important step forward for information on exactly where our policies will be going in this very important issue of climate change. It has been stated here today that dealing with climate change will be the dilemma of this generation. This generation has a responsibility to deal with climate change because, unfortunately, if we are unsuccessful and do not deliver, the following generations will be grossly affected.
There is movement on this issue. Trying to achieve targets, whether those in the Paris Agreement or other agreements, will become the major challenge. There was a recession and negative growth. In some regard, that helped us but we have turned a corner and growth has picked up. One can see it on the motorways and roads. We have seen an increase in transport. How we deal with that and a growing economy while staying within those targets will be one of the key issues facing this generation and also the Government.
When one looks at the generational side of things, usage is down 2% nationally, even though we are in a growth phase. That is because we have changed our approach, building habits and guidelines have changed which should be welcomed. If we are to have a real, meaningful change, we have to look at things like micro-generation and where the solar industry will fit into it. We need to put forward a plan regarding the micro-generation element of the solar industry. The Minister said he would bring forward or review guidelines on wind farms.
One of the key issues seems to be solar farms and the lack of planning guidelines in that regard. It is an issue I have raised in the Seanad and the Minister of State, Deputy Damien English, responded that the Government has no plans to bring forward those guidelines. It is one of the key issues at which we need to look.
In my part of the world we have had a spate of speculative planning permissions being lodged for quite extensive solar farms up to 50 or 60 acres. One of the criteria is how close the farms are to the substation. The criteria do not refer to where solar farms should be but to where the connection points to the grid are. It is an issue.
Community involvement and community payback have to be a major part of these things. When one sees what happened in other planning permissions, community involvement regarding a levy for the community needs to be looked at in these planning permissions in the future. We have seen issues regarding the peat and coal generation plans and the proposals that most will be phased out in the next decade. That is the very important element. These are located in rural Ireland, not major urban centres.
How we keep employment with this change in processes will be a key issue for us so as to ensure we can move forward. In one way we must reach our targets but in another we must not decimate the communities left behind when these peat and coal plants close.
The Minister touched on the very important issue of food waste. This is one of the key issues in every household and it affects everybody in the State. How we manage and deal with such waste is a significant matter. This will come down to education and changing habits. I see waste even in my household and going around the community; therefore, this is about how to manage that waste. There must be education as to whether food should be thrown out by the date indicated on packaging or whether one can use it two or three days afterwards. We need an advertising programme in order that people can become more involved. Key people in the food industry must become ambassadors for the issue. We can see the amount of food waste that is normal, whether it is from a restaurant or household; therefore, the issue affects everybody on the island. We need ambassadors to champion the cause of reducing food waste, and this will be a real challenge. It will be a key factor in the climate change strategy to know how we can tie a reduction in food waste to the fabric of society.
The growth of the agriculture industry and how it will affect climate change has been alluded to in this debate. It is one of the key concerns, covering areas like the nitrates directive and how the review in the next 12 months will affect water pollution, to how we will deal with gases. When we consider where we are going, there is an aura of insecurity that must be balanced. The next few months and years will be very important.
The Minister might clarify the negotiations happening in Europe on the 2030 proposals. We are halfway through them, but have those agricultural issues come up? How does the Minister intend to deal with them? They are vital for the island and the security for them is very important.
I welcome the opportunity to make a statement on climate action and low carbon development. The transition document sets the context for why we are here today and this is not a matter that can be kicked to touch or down the line. The threat to the environment, public health and economic prosperity is very real and without a radical change in the economic and environmental approach of government, human misery, war and ecological deterioration will reach levels never before witnessed. I listened to President Higgins speak on the rise of the global south, which is a defining shift in our time. Ireland and our global diaspora have a role in supporting and welcoming that shift. We should be proactive in engaging in that dialogue, as a very real and transparent commitment to climate change can be the result.
Senator Michael McDowell mentioned that austerity and the economic crash has been the single biggest factor in reducing emissions in Ireland. It has not been the action of this or previous Governments. The Minister has personally expressed confidence that Ireland will meet its 2020 target of 40% of electricity being generated from renewable sources such as wind, solar, biomass and so on. Should we fall short of those targets, what does the Minister believe will be the reasons for our inability to meet them? What are the repercussions for the State?
Given the Minister's confidence in meeting those targets, is it his intention to diversify renewable energy generation by allowing an equal playing field for solar energy technology development? Under the public service obligation, the current projection is that for nearly 3,000 MW of renewable energy €335 million will be received in 2016 and 2017; we can compare that figure to the €140 million that will be received for 250 MW of energy from fossil fuels. This means that the fossil fuel industry benefited from a huge €386 million subsidy last year. That is €11,000 per megawatt for renewable power and €56,000 per megawatt for fossil fuels, or five times as much per megawatt. In the case of wind energy, biomass, hydro power and biogas there are feed-in tariffs but not in the case of solar energy. It is a technology really suited to community and local participation with active citizenship.
It has been mentioned that last month the Environmental Protection Agency launched its environmental assessment report, outlining a number of areas that need a renewed focus by the Government. These include air quality, water pollution and climate action. A particularly shocking statistic is that poor air quality in towns and cities causes more than 1,200 premature deaths per year. That is clearly down to an increasing number of cars on the roads, combined with the burning of solid fuels for heat and energy.
We are calling for a greater sense of urgency in reducing our dependency on fossil fuels for energy, heating and transport. It is imperative that the Government address all of this by fully implementing the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act while laying out a very clear roadmap of how Ireland will reach its emission reduction targets from 2020 to 2050. We cannot stress enough the need to include the sectoral targets in the Government's climate action plan, for which Sinn Féin called to be included in the 2015 Act.
Given that this transition statement comes a year since the passing of the Act, I was reflecting on where we were just one year ago. I recall a statement by the Taoiseach that Ireland "is driving economic and environmental efficiencies in agriculture and achieving results". That statement is perhaps an untruth and at least open to question. The agrifood sector is really important, as we know, and we are producing food for many countries. If we want to achieve the success spoken about by the Taoiseach we must develop more sustainable farming areas. The sugar industry is one example. The beef and dairy sectors are important and should be protected but our over-reliance on beef and dairy leaves us extremely vulnerable, as we all know, in meeting our international commitments. My understanding is 37% of the farming community are economically viable, amounting to 30,000 farmers, and that if one removes the single farm payment, the number of farmers who are economically viable are 15,000. Energy production can add to the sustainability of that industry, but this can only happen if the likes of feed-in tariffs and connections to the grid are facilitated.
The Paris Agreement means that Ireland must immediately embark on a rapid and just transition to a carbon-free future. I note the Minister will shortly publish a preliminary consultation to inform the preparation of Ireland's first mitigation plan but could we have the timeline for the publication of that draft? The Minister might indicate if this will phase out fossil fuels and if it will harness the positivity of active citizenship, as I mentioned, by facilitating and kick-starting community ownership? Where does the agriculture sector fit into that mitigation plan? Does the Minister truly accept that if we are to be honest with ourselves, any mitigation plan must be about transforming every aspect of our lives on this island and planet? It must be about transforming the way in which we live. Capitalism will continue to prey and advance over the last expanding frontiers of the earth. It is as if we accept the environment will not only continue to give in abundance but sustain us also.
It will not and nothing will be possible on a scorched earth.
I thank the Minister, Deputy Denis Naughten, for coming into the House. This is an area of particular interest to me. I do not know if the Minister is as old as I am, but in the mid-1980s I had the opportunity to go to Antarctica and in 1989 also.
I was in short pants.
Even then we were starting to hear of the concept of climate change and the impact it would have on small Pacific nations and also throughout Europe. In Ireland we see it in many shapes and forms.
I believe we may be approaching the perfect storm because we have the issue of climate change, which is high on the agenda, Brexit, Mr. Trump becoming President of the United States, and the result of the recent referendum in Italy. It appears that there is a huge storm looming and it is particularly pertinent in respect of climate change.
I am pleased that we are addressing the issue of climate change more in Ireland. The Minister has a genuine interest in the area. Following the recent COP22 climate meeting in Marrakesh, the Paris Agreement is now fully in effect, which is very welcome. The world finally seems to have woken up to the scale of the problem facing us, even if some Members of the Dáil appear to be asleep in that regard. There is a commitment to taking action, albeit action that is not equal to the task of holding a rise in temperatures to 1.5o. In the case of Ireland, we have clearly fallen at the first hurdle and we look ridiculous internationally because we have failed so abysmally. The political progress is to be welcomed, but it is not fast enough, especially in terms of the impact of climate change on future generations.
The Paris Agreement commits us all to tackling not just the low hanging fruit of climate policy, much of which has already been taken. We now need to delve deeper into our reserves not only of renewable energy but also of ingenuity, creativity, innovation and resolve.
Taking strong action to tackle Ireland’s contribution to this global problem contains as much potential for development and growth as it does sacrifice and challenge. A renewed economy, freed from the shackles of increasing greenhouse gas emissions, truly seems to be within our reach. Last year, the economy of the European Union saw modest growth. However, for the first time ever, it was accompanied not with the usual attendant increase in emissions but rather a further decrease in those emissions. The European Union is on course to meet its collective commitments under the 2020 climate and energy package, and there is a sense that Government policy can and does have the desired effect of lowering our impact on the climate. A carbon neutral Ireland can be a greener, more pleasant land and a country filled with jobs in renewable energies, to which the Minister alluded, green technology, research and development and renewable transport systems that enhance communities and improve our health and well-being.
We have imports of fossil fuels of approximately €6.5 billion, according to the Environmental Protection Agency. Our current fossil fuel based economy is instead delivering shorter lifespans, negative health impacts, an unhealthy obsession with the combustion engine and a fuel bill of €6.5 billion for the economy each year. That is a massive drain on the balance of payments and a huge waste of public money. Oil prices are low in historical terms, but we know from the early 2000s that this will change again after an extended period of economic growth, as we are currently seeing in Ireland, or if current hints at production controls from OPEC prove to be founded.
Greenhouse gas emissions are almost always found accompanying other forms of pollution. Car emissions are coupled with dangerous levels of particulate matter. Power plants release many different types of air pollutants, and we are only now learning the true effects of marine and aviation air pollution on human health. Changing the way we organise our society is not a burden. It is an incredible opportunity to address many issues. A more communal approach to energy and to transport can contribute to a more cohesive and active community spirit throughout the country.
We are seeing across the world the dangerous effect that increased carbon dioxide is having on the marine environment. I refer to the coral bleaching on the Great Barrier Reef. Climate change mitigation is the ultimate in risk assessment. One universal truth we have learned throughout the process of learning more about climate change is that its effects can never be fully anticipated.
In Ireland the ratio of spending on cars versus active transport, that is, cycling and walking, is dangerously skewed towards the car. Ireland does have special circumstances, namely, a dispersed population and lower densities, but this cannot be addressed by adding to the problem with Government investment. Sadly, to date, the Minister's colleague, the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Shane Ross, has shown no appreciation of that fact and no intention of amending this long-standing policy.
Despite progress, our energy model remains hopelessly mired in some of the oldest, dirtiest and least efficient methods of energy generation. The ESB is planning to continue burning peat until 2030. Renewable energy plans remain limited to large-scale wind developments, and there is little to no scope for the inclusion of the community sector in small and medium-scale energy generation.
Ireland has long touted itself as the greenest beef producer in the world, but being the best at producing food inefficiently is problematic, to say the least. It takes many times the energy, water, labour and other inputs to produce calories as meat as it does through any other method. Less than 1% of Irish farms are actively involved in the growing of fruit and vegetables, resulting in massive energy-wasting imports from the rest of Europe and elsewhere. We need to have a mature debate on the effects that such inequalities have on the soil, our climate and farming communities.
Ireland has not lived up to its international role on the global stage either. Last year we had to observe the indignity of the leader of the country going to the Paris climate talks to plead for special treatment for Ireland.
Irish citizens can and will play their fair part with regard to the issue of climate change. Ireland must live up to the rhetoric. That means nothing less than a radical transformation of the way we organise our society, plan cities, farm in rural areas and produce power. We need to see the Government taking true action.
I agree with Senator Michael McDowell. What he said was aspirational. I am concerned that what we have today is not sufficient for the size and the scale of the problem of climate change facing Ireland, Europe and the world.
I commend the Minister, Deputy Denis Naughten, not only for his frequent appearances in this House but also the competence and enthusiasm he brings to his ministry. That is important and welcome.
I agree with the view advanced by Senator Grace O'Sullivan that a consensus is emerging in this Parliament and throughout the country. There is an agreement, with very few dissenters, on the science in terms of what happened in recent winters.
The United Nations accepts the science and there is anecdotal evidence. Consensus has emerged that there is a major problem, that the impact is extraordinary and that the result of not acting on this would be perilous for humanity. There is no dispute about that. There is little dissent and that, in itself, is positive. The consensus must be of assistance to the Minister in doing his job.
There are so many facets to this issue. I will offer one quirky point. I undertook a little checking before coming to the House. One of the results of climate change is a reduction in the bee population in the world. This is a serious reduction and it constitutes a threat to global crop production. Apart from the rising seas and the extremes of weather etc. the effects are extraordinary.
I will address some practical points to which I would like the Minister to respond. I call on him to set out where he is at and his response in terms of actions and when those actions might take place. It is accepted now that there is a need to expedite the numbers and use of electric cars. What plans does the Minister have in this area to incentivise the use of electric cars? Have we done a cost-benefit analysis in respect of climate change and favourable VRT or taxation rates? It is a question of whatever incentives we can use to get electric cars to be acceptable or used on a wide basis.
The area of insulation grants and retrofitting is important. The Minister referred to quality of life. I come from an area similar to his and that of my good friend, Senator Terry Leyden. In the constituency in which I live, there are several people in older houses. Despite all the new and exotic houses that have been built, there are still many older houses that have not been properly insulated. They are not heat preserving or good at maintaining heat. The quality of life for the people in these houses would be greatly enhanced by grant aid and a more aggressive campaign in this area. Perhaps I am missing something, but I am unsure whether the schemes have registered yet in the public consciousness or whether there is sufficient take-up. I am unsure whether the schemes are sufficiently accessible or attractive. I call on the Minister to respond to these points. I would appreciate it as a practical step. At the end of the day, this has to be a series of practical steps. We have accepted the broad philosophy and the ambition. We accept the targets, etc. Now it is a question of how we do it.
The co-operatives throughout Ireland have been successful in the past and there is a long-standing tradition. This is clear in the Minister's area and in mine, as well as throughout the country. There is great potential for co-operative wind turbines and I am keen to know what we can do to advance it. They could keep a community in alternative energy and have a level of micro-generation at that level also. If the turbines created surplus energy, the co-operatives could benefit from the sale of the surplus to the grid. Similarly, if individuals had micro-generators in their houses they could benefit also. Community wind turbines have great effects. I take the point made by Senator Terry Leyden about schools and support that view. The county councils and local authorities can do a great deal more.
A good deal of local authority housing stock is not yet sorted or retrofitted. I commend to the Minister the idea that this should become a major priority.
I agree with the Minister that the potential of solar panels has not been fully exploited for individual use nor has it been fully marketed.
My final point relates to waste. I know from public and private briefings from the Minister to the committee that he is going to address this issue. I am keen to hear his response on what can be done to reduce waste. We know that it was the source of a 13% increase in emissions in that sector last year.
The use, expansion and funding of the green low-carbon agri-environment scheme, GLAS, is the way to go in agriculture. It is acceptable to the farmers. It provides motivation and incentivises them. It is a question of the way they respond and they are responding well to GLAS in terms of take-up. We need to expand on it.
I welcome the Minister. This is an important and landmark day. I hope this is the start of when we begin to take climate change seriously. Important legislation was passed. Senator Paudie Coffey was in the Department when it went through. It is important that we have the Minister in the House today. It is important that the Minister ensures his colleagues at the Cabinet table make the same statement. We cannot deal with this through one Department. There has to be a whole-of-government approach. The Minister is welcome.
Senator Michael McDowell said the Minister had not fulfilled the full obligations of the legislation. My former teacher, Senator Joe O'Reilly, spoke just now. He probably would have described the performance as a C+ grade, in other words, that we can and must do better. We have little time left.
The Senator must have been a child in junior infants when Senator Joe O'Reilly was a teacher.
We are on the foot of 15 of the hottest years the planet has seen since records started. It is five minutes to midnight. We have to put the vested interest groups outside the door and start making real practical decisions that will make a difference. Although we are a small country, we can show clear leadership in this regard and that is what I expect from the Minister. I expect clear leadership without being influenced by vested interests.
I offer one example. The Minister covered this, but the public sector spends approximately €600 million on energy. We have examples of best practice. In 2014 Tallaght hospital set out to save 18% of its energy use over three years and succeeded. This equated to €4.3 million or 18 acute hospital beds. Therefore, it is in the interests of other Ministers to work at this. The Minister referred to schools. There has been a compulsory energy monitoring programme in place in schools since January 2015 but, unfortunately, it has not worked. We cannot pile more and more work on top of principals without giving them the necessary resources. There are major opportunities throughout the public sector to reduce our energy, but the resources must be given in a real and practical way. I call on the Minister to look at the schools in a different way. The green flag system works well. Perhaps we should integrate it in some way.
Although we need to continue phasing out fossil fuels, we have started to increase our coal and peat use for generation of electricity by 19.6%. That is totally unacceptable when we are talking about phasing out electricity generated by peat. Peat generates 9% of our electricity but counts for 25% of pollution from electricity. We cannot afford to wait until 2030. We need to move now. The sector has been subsidised by €130 million. We need to get on and do something about it. We need to plan for the closure far quicker and ensure that the employees have a future. We can look at how we can invest in that regard. The Government is putting in a subvention of €130 million per year. That money could be invested in alternative employment for the workers in those peat generation stations. Peat is of itself an important carbon sink. That has to be taken into consideration.
I am not convinced that biomass is the correct way to go. The question needs a little more research because we cannot generate that level of biomass within the State for the power stations. Are we talking about importing biomass? We need to take a close look at that issue.
We have to bite the bullet at Moneypoint. The Minister is going to have to say we are going to close it. It is a tough and difficult decision but we have to plan for its closure. Generating electricity from dirty coal is no longer sustainable or acceptable and vested interests must not be allowed to rule or interfere in such judgments.
With regard to showing some kind of leadership, climate experts have calculated that in order for the world to meet the Paris Agreement targets, we will have to leave the majority, that is, 80%, of all existing discovered fossil fuel reserves in the ground. That is scientific fact. I suggest Ireland should show some leadership in this regard. We currently invest €133 million in oil companies through the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund. I ask the Minister to suggest to his Cabinet colleagues that we withdraw that €133 million that is invested in oil companies drilling for fossil fuels. We should take a moral decision and not invest in those areas any longer.
The one thing we have really failed on is transport. I very much look forward to seeing the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Shane Ross, in the House and talking about his brief rather than about judges. Transport emissions are still higher than they were in 1990 and there seems to be no leadership in regard to transport reduction and changing the model of public transport.
With regard to solar panels, we need a rooftop revolution, as it was described in one email to me. There are many householders, farmers and businesses who could install PV panels to generate electricity with very little negative impact. However, we need a guaranteed payment for microgeneration, including the solar service.
The Minister mentioned the clean air strategy. We cannot allow the move to diesel fuel to continue. Prior to the budget, the Department of Finance indicated that the differential between petrol and diesel is too great. We will have vested interests that will knock at the Minister's door to say they cannot change this and that we have to give the benefit to diesel. Given the way we have done this, 50% of all car purchases are now diesel cars.
It is more.
That is having a drastic and detrimental impact on air quality in cities and towns. One thing that could be done quickly is a phased move away from diesel cars. We have to move quickly because hospitals will fill up if we do not.
A zero waste management plan for restaurants has been successfully piloted in London. It involves reducing portion sizes and a planned mechanism whereby restaurants involved in the pilot scheme no longer send any of their food waste to landfill sites. We have to do this also, in co-operation with the relevant services.
I call Senator Lynn Ruane. As there is only a short time remaining, she might share the remaining time with Senator Michelle Mulherin.
I will.
I welcome the Minister. I would like to speak on the divestment of investments in fossil fuels and the movement we are seeing developing globally, which has begun to find success in Ireland recently. I applaud the work of the Fossil Free campaigning group from Trinity College Dublin, which, after a well executed campaign, has received a commitment from the college authorities that the university will now divest all investments in fossil fuels. I was delighted, in my role as president, to be able to facilitate the first conversations and the open and transparent communication that happened between the students and the board of Trinity College Dublin. I urge other institutions to follow suit in regard to engagement with students who know this area and to take on board their expertise. A press release today from NUI Galway shows its president is now committed to working towards divestment and I hope his college and colleagues will row in behind it.
The matter I want to raise draws from and seeks to capitalise on the momentum that has been established by the decision of Trinity College Dublin to divest. The Ireland Strategic Investment Fund has over €100 million invested in fossil fuel stocks. I call on the Minister to consider divesting those investments and committing to a 100% renewable energy policy. Such a move would be in line with the commitments made by the Government under the Paris Agreement, which seeks to limit any increase in global warming to 2° Celsius and recognises the catastrophic effect of any increase beyond that limit. If the Government was to take this divestment step, research conducted by Oil Change International shows that fossil fuel companies will not be able to burn all of the fossil fuels they are currently extracting from fields in operation. Such a step could allow for the creation of a carbon bubble, whereby fossil fuel companies will not be financially able to open new oil, coal and natural gas fields, with the result that investments in these projects will subsequently be devalued and become stranded assets. This will mean less cumulative carbon emissions and the Government will have played a substantial part in meeting its commitments under the Paris Agreement. Moreover, if the Government had taken this move in 2015, it would have made a €22 million profit; therefore, there is also a financial argument to be made, as well as a moral and environmental one.
We are all aware of the potential for devastating impacts of climate change in the coming decades. It is always the case that climate change affects the poorest people in the world first. The appeal I am making is supported by organisations like Trócaire which work with people in less developed countries who are already facing huge struggles posed by climate change. Even in Ireland, we have seen how flooding has affected citizens and the economy in recent years and this trend will be exacerbated unless we act quickly and decisively to restrict emissions. Moreover, a study of the ISIF's investment portfolio in 2015 showed it had over €100 million in fossil fuel companies. To continue to invest in these fossil fuel companies is to knowingly invest in those emissions and their potential impact. Moreover, the ISIF's sustainability and responsible investment policy places significant importance on climate change and acknowledges the important role of investors in tackling climate change and the mandate of the fund to align with the Government's decarbonisation commitments. It is also very clear that now, more than ever, is the time to divest. The ISIF is carrying out an ongoing review of its own investment strategy and makes a divestment goal even easier to include in the strategy.
I thank Senator Lynn Ruane for facilitating me.
I welcome the Minister. Everybody is speaking towards the fact that the issue for Ireland and the world is global warming. It is welcome that the Paris Agreement was arrived at and that much more conversation is taking place around climate justice, stopping global warming and carbon emissions and diversifying our dependence on fossil fuels. I see many celebrities are lending their names to the campaign and we have our former President, Mary Robinson, as a climate justice ambassador; therefore, there is much discussion at a high level. Nobody could disagree with the general principles that are being enunciated about our responsibility to live more sustainable lifestyles and not to keep operating as such a consumer society, buying stuff for half nothing in the shops and then discarding it, with the costs being externalised in the environment and in Third World countries, from where the products are coming.
This conversation has been ongoing for a long time, as noted by several speakers, but I hope we can begin to advance it further. I feel very familiar with this issue, living in an area that has high wind speeds, biomass potential, wave energy potential and all the rest, and from seeing issues around delivering energy projects. We never seem to get into that space. There are two issues challenging us, the first being community in the sense of how we live but also how we put infrastructure into communities, and the other, the cost. We would be having a more advanced conversation about how we achieve those objectives instead of having the same conversation over and over again. I have been at so many committees and was previously on the environment committee. We seem to be rehashing the same conversation and simply repeating that we need to do something. I think pragmatic politics is required and I believe the Minister is a pragmatic politician.
With regard to communities, it is all very well to say we should shut down peat burning power stations, but it would be absolutely devastating for the areas affected.
We know that it costs the Exchequer, but there are not many other employment opportunities. I heard a great deal of debate about Edenderry and heard An Taisce and the Green Party giving out to the Government. In all the time that I have heard about proposals for renewable electricity generation projects, whether a wind farm or a biomass power station, there has never been a comment on where they should be located. Coillte made an application for a wind farm with a transmission grid at Cluddaun, near where I live. An Bord Pleanála refused permission because it was over-industrialised. How can it apply for something that scares the living daylights out of communities? Why is there not more emphasis on microgeneration? Biomass would create employment in rural areas where it can be grown as well as generate electricity. I know that the Minister shares this mindset.
On the urban-rural divide, I have heard many people who live in cities talking about what we should do but they should try being at a meeting with 700 people who do not want something to happen. I have never heard An Taisce saying where the wind farm or power station should be put. If people are serious about delivering on electricity targets, that is the conversation we should be having, not saying the Government is terrible because it is not doing something about farming. Human beings are affected. The same is true of the carbon tax, levying the poorest people who buy coal and cannot afford wood-burning stoves.
I have been fair to the Senator. Perhaps she will be fair to me.
As the Acting Chairman can see, I am very passionate about this issue.
I can indeed.
I would like to see us make progress on it. We need to get real in our conversation about it.
I apologise to Senator Paudie Coffey, but there is no time left.
I acknowledge the presence of Senator Paudie Coffey who steered this legislation through the House.
I smiled at Senator Michael McDowell’s contribution. The document was here in the House, but leaving that aside, in my contribution I said there was a shortfall. I also acknowledged that we would not reach our 2020 targets. However, I also said, "This shortfall reflects our constrained investment capacity for over the decade between 2008 to 2019 due to the economic crisis, including the impact of the troika programme and the EU fiscal governance requirements." I am sure the Senator can think back to how we ended up in the situation in the first place. It would have made things much easier if we had had the capacity to carry out the investment we needed to carry out.
I encourage Senators to read the annual transition statement. This is the first statement, it will be built on and we have a lot of work to do. I would love to be here to outline some of the proposals in respect of the mitigation plan, the renewable heat incentive scheme, the climate change dialogue, the public sector energy efficiency programme, the clean air plan, the broadband strategy and the bio-energy initiative, which I will have in the coming weeks. I do not have them today, which is as frustrating for me as it is for everyone else.
I will deal with as many of the issues raised as I can in the time allowed. I thank all Members for their contributions and constructive ideas. This is the first statement. The legislation was passed only 12 months ago. I have been a Minister since May. I have been Minister for the environment since 27 July. We are all involved in this process. Since becoming Minister I have said consistently that we need to acknowledge the issues Senator Michelle Mulherin raised because there is no point lecturing people unless we try to bring communities with us, whether it is a question of microgeneration or how to bring people along in respect of peat-fired power stations.
I have listened to the Green Party and An Taisce, but I was the only one who said before the general election that we needed to convert peat-fired power stations in my constituency, as Senators Michael McDowell and Terry Leyden will acknowledge. I took the brave decision because it was the right thing to do. We have to bring people with us and work with them. It is not a case of lecturing them or, as Senator Kevin Humphreys says, shutting down the statins tomorrow morning. There is a transition involved and there are 1,800 jobs and families involved in it. People say we have to find them alternative jobs. How easy is it to find alternative jobs in, or bring them to, the midlands? We have to find a solution. Part of the reason Donald Trump was elected in the United States is that the approach taken here of lecturing people was taken there and many in the coal mining regions said "stop" and voted for Donald Trump. We need to acknowledge the social implications of what we are proposing and how to nuance these issues to bring people with us. It is not a case of not going down this road because we have to and we have to do it quickly.
Microgeneration is crucially important and many Senators raised it in the context of solar farms. Senator Tim Lombard mentioned the planning regulations. They need to be put in place. I acknowledge the point made about Sliabh Bawn and my view of that project is in the Official Report of the Dáil and the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Communications, Climate Action and the Environment, that we must put the regulations and standards in place and work to them.
Senator Terry Leyden spoke about solar energy in schools. He is right and we are considering it but part of the difficulty is that they need access to the grid because the use of electricity in schools at the appropriate times does not warrant the investment in terms of the payback. We need a grid that allows microgeneration onto the local grid in order that the local shop, post office or other houses in the community can avail of it.
As an aside, in respect of An Post, we must either consider increasing the cost of the postage stamp or reducing the postal delivery service. There will be a full debate on this issue. People who push for maintaining the existing price of the stamp need to be able to justify and explain to communities throughout the country why the postal service will be reduced from five days to four or three days or maybe no service at all.
Senator Michael McDowell spoke about emissions going up. He is right and the trend is wrong. He criticised the fact that the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, report came out after the presentation was made to the committee. I did not see that report until it was published. The officials did not see it in advance. We do not have access to it. The EPA is independent. An advisory council has been appointed to the EPA. The Senators will get an idea of my thinking if they look at its membership. It is made up of environmentalists, farmers, young people and a majority of women because they are the key groups who will drive the change in communities. They are the ones with whom I want to work to change the agenda and the focus of the debate. Let us all start working together. Senator Lynn Ruane mentioned divestment, which is a valid issue which the Department of Finance is examining. This is not her Government; it is ours and more than any other it is the Parliament's Government. It is dictated to by Parliament. Let us all work together.
I look forward to the input of all Senators in that regard. I hope we can have a broader debate and that I will have the opportunity to respond to every issue raised by them. I thank them for their time.