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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 5 Nov 2020

Vol. 272 No. 3

Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters

Water Services

I welcome the Minister of State to the House to deal with the issue of water and wastewater infrastructure as raised by Senators Byrne and Garvey. The Senators are sharing time and have four minutes in total. Should I toss a coin to determine who goes first?

Senator Byrne is letting me go first and is hoping I will stop early and leave him some time.

He is a gentleman to his fingertips.

Letting me go first is a big risk.

I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House to discuss this important issue. Water is the basis of all human life.

We live in it, we drink it, we sleep in it, we wash ourselves in it, we grow all our food with it and we swim in it. It is such an important issue and we still have major problems with water in rural Ireland. That is why I and my colleague, Senator Byrne, are raising this matter today. The lack of infrastructure is paralysing the renewal of villages and towns and that is something on which we both fought during the programme for Government negotiations. If we do not sort out our water network, we will not have housing or people living in our villages and towns again. People will not move back into derelict buildings and they will not be able to build houses in the serviced sites around our villages and towns. I will give one example but I could cite many between Malin Head to Mizen Head. Broadford is a lovely village on the other side of the county in east Clare, very near Limerick city. It is a perfect place for people who cannot afford the city prices or who do not want to deal with city traffic or large schools and businesses. Such people could move to Broadford but it has no water infrastructure. It has an amazing school and is a lovely village but without water infrastructure nothing is going to happen there. There are so many beautiful old buildings that could be lived in, renewed and revived but they need water treatment plants, as do many other towns.

A total of 36 areas in ten counties are still releasing untreated wastewater into our environment. In 57 areas across 21 counties, raw sewage discharges are the only significant pollutant for bodies of water. We often try to blame farmers for everything but I am claiming this one back as a problem of raw sewage. Some 66% of environmental water pollution incidents are due to a lack of sufficient treatment capacity.

Of course we have one-off issues with water as well but one very important issue has come to light. It is becoming so serious now that families are ringing me whose children are experiencing kidney failure as a result of swimming in water with E. coli. This is happening again and again. County Clare had to close its beaches numerous times over the short summer during which businesses could make some money. That is why I am going to keep highlighting this as often as I can until we get the funding sorted. It was great to see this issue included in the budget but today we want clarity around when the Government is going to act. We set up Irish Water to solve the significant problems that existed such as half our treated water leaking but we need to take this seriously if we are serious about regional rebalance. Now that people can work from home more, this is the most important time to do this. If we do it right, it could be a real turning point for villages and towns that have been waning for years to finally becoming bright, shiny places to live in again. That is what we need for people's mental, physical and social health.

I echo the remarks of the Senator. Much as this is an issue in Clare, it is also an issue in counties Wexford, Kilkenny and Carlow. This is not just an environmental concern. Dealing with this issue could revitalise our rural communities and villages. We have a planning issue whereby many people are being told they cannot have one-off housing, but we should at least allow them to live in their local villages. Doing so will also support the local shops, post offices and schools. Our problem at the moment is that many villages lack the three Ws - water, Wi-Fi, and wastewater. If we can address those matters, we can revolutionise how we support rural living. This is about small towns and villages all over the country such as Ferns, Camolin, Our Lady's Island, Ramsgrange and Campile in County Wexford. There are many others and I am sure the Minister of State could name some in Kilkenny as well. Imagine if we as a Government were able to provide the infrastructure to those villages. It would support our remote working strategy and would be far more sustainable environmentally, but most important, the quality of life for people living in those communities would be transformed. That is why both I and Senator Garvey wanted to raise this but I am sure it is a concern of Senators in all parties and Members of both Houses. We ask that the Government prioritises a programme to provide the necessary water and wastewater infrastructure for our rural towns and villages.

I thank Senators Garvey and Byrne for raising this important issue and doing it so well and speaking so eloquently on behalf of the communities they represent. I am very familiar with some of the places listed, as someone from as a neighbouring county in a beautiful part of the country. From the programme for Government point of view, it is vitally important that this is a core element of our town centres first policy. If we are serious about balanced regional development and our smaller towns and villages, water and wastewater infrastructure, along with broadband and Wi-Fi, are critical infrastructure. That is absolutely correct.

I wholeheartedly endorse and support the Senators' raising of this issue. It is timely and important. Since 1 January 2014, Irish Water has had statutory responsibility for all aspects of public water service planning, delivery and operation at the national, regional and local levels. As the Senators will be aware, prior to that the 31 local authorities were responsible and would have had the capability to fulfil that responsibility, were it not for persistent underfunding. As part of budget 2021, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage has secured funding of more than €1.4 billion to support water services. This includes €1.3 billion in respect of domestic water services provision by Irish Water. This overall investment will deliver significant improvements in our public water and wastewater services, support improved water supplies right across Ireland, including in rural Ireland, and support a range of programmes delivering improved water quality in our rivers, lakes and marine area. The programme for Government commits to supporting the take-up of Irish Water's small towns and villages growth programme, which is intended to provide water and wastewater growth capacity in smaller settlements which would not otherwise be provided for in its capital investment plan.

It should also be noted that Irish Water is subject to independent economic regulation by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, which determines the revenue required by Irish Water to meet its efficient operating and capital costs to ensure that it operates in an efficient manner in delivering its services to customers. Therefore, Irish Water put forward to the CRU for consideration proposals for a small towns and villages growth programme as part of its capital investment plan for the period from 2020 to 2024. The programme is intended to support a number of the national policy objectives and national strategic outcomes under the national planning framework. I understand from Irish Water that an allocation of €97.5 million for this programme was approved by the CRU. I also understand that the design of projects is now commencing and that investment under the programme will begin to deliver in the coming years. Irish Water is working with local authorities across the country to ensure the investment supports the growth of identified settlements where these are prioritised in line with the local authority development plans, which again align and will come on stream in the coming months.

In addition to the major investment delivered by Irish Water, my Department also funds rural water investment under the multi-annual rural water programme. This programme supports investment in community-based group schemes and the improvement of wells and septic tanks. The current investment programme is based on recommendations from the working group established in April 2018 to conduct a review of rural water services.

There is a two-strand approach to the considerations of the working group. The first strand considered the composition and distribution of funding under the rural water programme while the second is considering the long-term future resourcing of the rural water sector more generally. The issue of wastewater infrastructure in villages not serviced by Irish Water is a matter which the working group will consider as part of its work. The Department expects a further report from the group in 2021.

I again acknowledge the Senators for raising this important matter. It is vitally important that we continue to keep it on the agenda. They can be absolutely assured of the Government's commitment to delivering water and wastewater infrastructure for rural Ireland.

I thank the Minister of State. That is great. I look forward to getting more detail about those measures. It is interesting that funding is to be provided for wells and septic tanks. We all know that septic tanks can be handled really well or really badly. People may need a bit more education and assistance on how to operate them properly. Everybody wants to do it right. Nobody does not want to. I have been looking up replies and looking for specific details so I can help to get the local authorities and Irish Water on board. Community groups are waiting with shovel-ready projects and are looking for funding. I thank the Minister of State for the information.

I thank the Minister of State. I know he is personally very committed to this issue. This needs to be aligned with the Government's remote working strategy because it has the potential to solve many of the challenges we face. I ask that, as soon as these reports are published, they be made available. A fuller debate in the House might be facilitated at that stage.

That is a very constructive proposal. We are certainly more than happy to have a wider debate on this issue. It would be very useful. What I have outlined this morning are the overarching objectives of Irish Water and the Government as regards front-loading funding.

It might be useful to go into more detail about specific programmes and plans for smaller towns and villages, and as Senator Garvey said, particularly in relation to rural group water schemes and the management and treatment of septic tanks. I am more than happy to return to the Seanad for a broader debate, because I know it is of significant interest to this House, and particularly to rural Senators.

Flood Relief Schemes

I welcome the Minister of State to the House; it is great to have him here. This issue of how we are going to cope with the devastation of the flooding is very important for west Cork and its residents and for Cork County Council. On 19 and 20 August 2020, there was a very severe storm with exceptional winds and rain, and within seven days, on 25 August, there was another period of 12 hours of torrential rain, which caused exceptional damage, particularly to the roads of west Cork. We have all seen the flooding in places like Rosscarbery, Bantry, Skibbereen and Bandon, where there were frightening scenes that really affected businesses and households throughout the entire province itself.

The issues pertain to the towns such as Bandon, Bantry, Skibbereen, Dunmanway, Rosscarbery, Clonakilty, Leap and Ballydehob, which all suffered serious damage. However the secondary roads were destroyed, and that has been the core issue. The road network in county Cork is an amazing 12,000 km in length; it is the longest road network in Ireland. The amount of damage done to that network, and mainly to secondary roads, is estimated at €4.6 million. Cork County Council is going through a budget process at the moment, which is very hard on the local authority. It is using reserves to keep the council afloat, and it has seen major budget cuts in areas such as road maintenance, village renewal, beach cleaning and toilet cleaning. This deficit in the budget of almost €4.6 million is having a major impact on how it can provide services going forward.

I seek clarity from the Minister of State on what can be done in respect of the damage done to the majority of the secondary roads in west Cork. The issue is that only €1 million has been spent to date, as another €3.4 million is to be spent as soon as the council receives the funding to fix the road network itself. Without that, the secondary roads in west Cork in particular will be in a very poor state. I refer here to places such as Bantry, Schull and Skibbereen. These are very important parishes and parts of the county because an infrastructure is required for the tourism on which we all depend and which is not there at the moment. If we do not have the infrastructure, we will not have the throughput of tourists on which this part of the world really depends.

Therefore, I seek clarity and a pathway to ensure that Cork gets this funding because with it, the network can be rebuilt, that is, the roads that are badly required in west Cork and building can take place going forward, once the Covid-19 crisis is over.

I thank the Senator for raising this issue. It concerns a part of the country that I am familiar with, having holidayed there again this year. My family and I love that part of Ireland and once the restrictions were lifted, we were lucky enough to get to that beautiful part of county Cork. I want to offer our sympathies to all of the families and businesses that were affected by the flooding in county Cork. It is something that I experienced in Kilkenny, when it used to flood before the flood scheme was implemented there. Certainly, I know from standing in homes and business when the floodwater is there, that it is a really devastating, disheartening, difficult and challenging time for people when there is persistent flooding, as seems to be happening in this case.

My Department undertakes the lead Department role, as set out in the strategic emergency management, SEM, framework of 2017, in relation to co-ordination of national level response to flooding emergencies, where warranted. This includes preparation of review reports into the response to flooding emergencies where national level co-ordination is activated, including the Review Report on Severe Weather Events 2017-2018, which is available to access on my Department's website.

The report was considered by the Government task force for emergency management and published by my Department in December 2019. The Department has implemented the recommendations relating to the local government sector. Inter-agency recommendations are progressed via the Government task force.

It should be noted that local authorities are designated as lead agencies for co-ordinating the local response to flooding emergencies, as per the Government decision in 2006 relating to the framework for emergency management. My Department seeks to support local authorities by requesting additional funding for exceptional costs incurred in the immediate response to severe weather events such as those experienced in County Cork in recent months. Such eligible costs relate to the response, clean-up and necessary immediate works associated with the event only, including the hire of plant and contractors necessary for immediate works, the purchase of materials required for response and clean-up and any staff overtime payments relating to an immediate clean-up. Capital costs associated with infrastructural damage, flood defence works or cost planned works are not eligible.

It should be noted that the OPW has responsibility for leading and co-ordinating the implementation of a national flood risk policy approved in 2004. This policy involves the development of a planned programme of prioritised feasible works, with a greater emphasis on non-structural measures. We cannot discount the fact that the impact of climate change is now manifesting in these extreme weather events, such as extreme flooding, and rainfall patterns. The overarching objective of the Government is to try to tackle that and it should be recognised. The OPW is delivering a multi-annual programme of capital investment in flood relief measures, including major and minor works schemes now planned for future measures in areas of significant flood risk. I take on board the specific point raised by the Senator regarding the immediate challenge around the road infrastructure and secondary roads in the region. I will take the case back to the Department.

I do not mean any disrespect, but I am very disappointed with the response of the Minister of State. The damage to the secondary road network is absolutely amazing. Many news outlets have published photographs of the damage. I have walked around various parts of the area and met many of the residents. Roads have literally been washed away. Work and repairs have been carried out. I am fearful that if a programme is not put in place to ensure we can rebuild these secondary roads, west Cork will not have the infrastructure to cater for locals or tourists or agriculture or any other activity in the area. We need a fund to be put in place to ensure these roads in west Cork can be replaced. There are nearly 12,000 km of roads in County Cork. There is no way the local authority budget can cope with nearly €5 million of damage being caused in ten days. What we need is a fund, possibly over two or three years, to ensure the road network can be improved. As people in the area saw, these events are frightening. On the evening in question, there was approximately 4 inches of rainfall in Rosscarbery in a few hours. Roads were just taken away by the rain. Without the Government stepping in, we will not be in a position to ensure the road network can be replaced.

I take on board the concerns of the Deputy and will take the points he raised back to the Department and my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Peter Burke, who has responsibility for local government. It is important that the Government is securing a package for local government that specifically relates to Covid and the non-rates element. We are attempting to ensure that local government is secure and viable into the future. These are specific items relating to the roads programme and an additional emergency fund because of the persistent occurrence of these severe flooding events. I am more than happy to take the Senator's concerns back within the Department and to relay the points he has raised. These events will occur in the future. In that context, it is important that the Government is able to respond to the needs of communities and local authorities when road infrastructure, particularly that in rural areas, is severely damaged as a result of such events.

Urban Development

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Burke, to the House and I wish him the very best in his role. On 9 July, I spoke on the Order of Business on the eve of a decision being made by Waterford City and County Council regarding planning permission for a transformative 125,000 sq. m mixed-use development on the north quays in Waterford city. The Minister of State is well aware of this project because I have spoken to him about it and explained it on several occasions. It is, however, worthwhile outlining the significance of this development for Waterford and the south-east region.

I firmly believe this project will act as a catalyst for a decade of accelerated growth, in line with the projections outlined in Project Ireland 2040. That is why I have promoted this project and worked hard to ensure its delivery since I was Mayor of Waterford in 2016, when the site was first designated as a strategic development zone, SDZ. Some people dispute that a rising tide lifts all boats, but I could not disagree more in this instance. This is not just about this particular development, but about the wider follow-on development in housing and many other areas, which is already at an advanced stage of discussion. The project aims to deliver significant retail, hotel and conference facilities, prime city centre offices and 300 apartments and it will be a game changer for Waterford and the entire region. The previous Fine Gael Government recognised the potential of the project, including its potential to create a significant number of jobs in the area, and that is why this project was prioritised in Project Ireland 2040. It was listed in the national development plan and funding of €20 million has been allocated to it by the National Transport Authority, NTA, and urban regeneration and development fund, URDF.

Despite these developments, significant uncertainty has remained about this project. The uncertainty exists because Waterford City and County Council requires funding of €110 million over four years to facilitate the construction of enabling infrastructure for this prime brownfield site. This involves a public transportation bridge over the River Suir to link the north quays SDZ with the city centre, the relocation of Plunkett Station to the centre of the site to create a modern public transportation interchange and the upgrading of road infrastructure in and around the site. These works are of critical importance for this exciting project.

Such investment will unlock €400 million in private sector investment and create more than 2,900 jobs in an area with a stubbornly high unemployment rate. I believe this project is the litmus test for the national planning framework and the commitments contained in the programme for Government for balanced regional development. Significant Government investment in Waterford and the south-east region is overdue. I stress that time is of the essence for this project. A decision is urgently needed to enable Waterford City and County Council to progress the tender for the bridge, roads and transportation hub and to enable the finalisation of contracts with the developer.

Many have doubted the Government's commitment to this project in recent years. I am proud to say I am not one of them. However, the time has passed for talking and uttering positive reassuring words about this project. It is now time for tangible action and that requires that a memorandum go to the Cabinet seeking approval for the funding I outlined. I hope the Minister of State will have a positive update for me. I would also like him to give me an indication of when further funding is due to be announced under the URDF. Councils across the country are eagerly awaiting that news, including my local authority in Waterford which has a significant project proposal for the wider Viking triangle and cultural quarter areas. I am sure that comprehensive proposal has scored well in the Department. I thank the Minister of State for coming into the House and I look forward to his response.

I thank the Senator for raising this matter and for the opportunity to discuss the North Quays project in Waterford, and particularly Waterford City and County Council's bid for the North Quays under the urban regeneration project. As the Senator outlined in detail, this is a significant project for the region. The urban regeneration and development fund, URDF, funding is designed to unlock the potential of our five cities and large towns. This project is key to doing that for Waterford and the region.

The Senator correctly pointed to the cumulative work carried out over the past six years by the previous Government. Indeed, the former Minister of State, Paudie Coffey, designated the area as a strategic development zone in an order made by the Government under SI 30 of 2016. That showed the commitment the then Government had to realising its potential under the URDF. Indeed, it made it a core central plank of the national planning framework in terms of our objective to have compact development. I understand the Senator was the mayor at the time an event was held in Waterford to try to progress this project. Since my appointment to the Department, the Senator has been quick to contact me about it and put forward the genuine case for it.

It is important that the Government backs this project. As regards the history, €6 million of URDF funding was allocated in November 2018 and a further €30 million of URDF funding was allocated in June 2019 to assist this project through the stages. I know from talking to the Senator and the former Minister of State, Paudie Coffey, how important this is for the region and the value that the city, the business community and the residents put on it. One must remember that this site has been derelict for decades and it has been a hindrance to unlocking the potential in the city. I believe this project will achieve this. It is important for our five cities and large towns, and, indeed, villages that they get regeneration funding to assist them.

On 26 November 2018, the then Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government announced URDF funding of €100 million for a total of 88 projects across the country. I referred to the two allocations that were made from the URDF for the North Quays project. In mentioning this project, I am mindful of places such as the Docklands in Dublin, which had a special designation and, in the context of an all-Ireland approach, what the Belfast quarters did for regeneration in that area of Northern Ireland. This can be key for Waterford city. I appreciate the Senator's concern to try to progress this project. He has my office inundated with queries about it. I also note that a media notice has been circulated for next Tuesday afternoon regarding a visit to Waterford. I hope that proves successful for the Senator and his hard work in the area.

I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive response, for recognising the importance of this project to Waterford and the south east and for acknowledging the work of our former colleague, Paudie Coffey, designating the site as a strategic development zone. The work of many people over the past number of years has brought this project to where it is now. I wish to record my thanks to each and every one of them for not giving in or saying that the project was going to fail, as many people have suggested. I again stress the importance and urgency of funding to Waterford City and County Council for the enabling infrastructure for the site. We have heard positive, reassuring words, and the €30 million the Minister of State mentioned was ring-fenced by the NTA for the project, rather than the URDF. However, there is a commitment in the Department to make this happen for Waterford and the south east. I urge the Minister of State to convey to the Department the urgency of finalising the funding arrangements for the project.

I appreciate the urgency attached to it, which I mentioned. Urban regeneration reaches into other Departments because the core of regeneration is trying to get our five cities and large towns to unlock their potential.

That is a key part of the national planning framework. I am working on this issue in the Department to ensure it is realised and delivered in communities.

The work of Senator Cummins when he was Mayor of Waterford, with the former Minister of State, Paudie Coffey, to designate this area of the city as a special development zone was key to unlocking its potential. This would not be possible were it not for the initiative at that time. It is great to see that we have a very firm commitment from the local authority. Its chief executive, Michael Walsh, is doing great work as well. I have been in contact with him in my role as Minister of State with responsibility for local government. He played a key role in the County and City Management Association, CCMA, in recent months.

I look forward to the project coming to fruition. I thank Senator Cummins for his excellent work and representation on the matter. It is very important that the Government progress such projects because they are so important. I cannot underline that enough. If we want to allow cities to unlock and reach their potential, the URDF will be central in doing that. I again thank the Senator for raising this matter in the Commencement debate.

European Health Insurance Card

I thank the Minister for Foreign Affairs for addressing this Commencement matter on the European health insurance card, EHIC. To be fair to him, he is always keen to come in to address Commencement debates on this issue, so I am appreciative of that.

I also acknowledge that there has been a lot of engagement on this issue in recent weeks. I noted the Minister's remarks on it at the recent meeting of the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. I suppose that, 57 days out from Brexit, we have had a series of commitments and I think what people expect to see now is an outline of the mechanical, practical opportunities to retain the EU rights and entitlements that they have been promised they will be able to retain.

As the Minister is well aware because he will have heard it extensively in his engagements in the North, the EHIC is probably something that cuts across all the demographics and communities in the North. It is something that everyone going on holidays has availed of regularly. It is a very symbolic wee thing. It is a bit like the passport, in that it is a symbolic representation of being a European citizen and being entitled to access EU rights.

Like many people, I was very heartened and encouraged to hear remarks from the Government in April last year indicating that it would be prepared to cover the cost of retaining the EHIC for all citizens in the North. That is a very important step and I support it. I want to afford the Government an opportunity to speak through the Seanad to people in the North to give them another opportunity and platform to hear the practical steps being taken above and beyond that very important and sincere promise.

I thank Senator Ó Donnghaile for giving me the opportunity to put the commitment on the record here. At this stage, we are 50 something days away from the end of the transition period so things need to start coming together in many areas, not just this area. There is an awful lot of work going on in regard to that so I will just outline how it will work.

As Senator Ó Donnghaile noted, in April 2019 the Government sought to make arrangements so that the people of Northern Ireland would continue to have access to EHIC rights in the event of a no-deal Brexit. At that time, we were preparing for a situation where there might not be a withdrawal agreement.

Now, of course, we are dealing with a different context. The withdrawal agreement, of which the protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland is an integral part, is now in place between the EU and the UK and has the protection of international law.

The Government recognises the importance placed by residents of Northern Ireland on maintaining the EHIC equivalent rights. This matter is being addressed in discussions between the EU and the UK on the future relationship, which we continue to monitor.

We are also aware that in line with obligations under the withdrawal agreement, the UK Government will provide eligible EU nationals and their family members who are resident in the UK before the end of the transition period and, therefore, covered under the withdrawal agreement, with a UK-issued EHIC. Further clarity from the UK on this will be required in order to assess if there are any implications for Northern Ireland, including in relation to eligibility. In the event that these issues are not adequately resolved, preparations are under way for a scheme to ensure continued access to EHIC equivalent arrangements for eligible residents in Northern Ireland. The scheme under development would allow residents in Northern Ireland to seek reimbursement for the cost of necessary healthcare while on a temporary stay in another EU or EEA member state or in Switzerland, should it be required, from 1 January 2021.

The Department of Health is working to progress arrangements that are compatible with domestic and EU law and to ensure that the HSE has the necessary operational arrangements in place to administer this in the relevant scenario. Detail on this can be found in the Brexit readiness action plan, published on 9 September, and Part 3 of the Withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union (Consequential Provisions) Bill 2020, published on the Oireachtas website on 29 October, which will be discussed with Members in the coming weeks. We will be in this House to discuss those issues probably towards the end of this month. I was planning to be here on 23 November.

More broadly, the EU rights of Irish and, therefore, EU citizens from Northern Ireland are specifically addressed in the protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland. The protocol confirms that Irish citizens in Northern Ireland will continue to enjoy, exercise and have access to rights, opportunities and benefits that come with EU membership. It is important to underline that under any scenario Irish citizens, no matter where they live, will continue to have EU citizenship. They will continue to enjoy the right to live and work throughout the EU and the right not to be discriminated against on the grounds of nationality.

While it remains our hope that access for Irish citizens in the North to certain EU programmes and benefits can be adequately addressed in the context of the future relationship, we are proactively working to ensure that the people of Northern Ireland can continue to enjoy access to EU rights, opportunities and benefits into the future, as they do today, including the benefits linked to holding a European health insurance card.

I thank the Minister for his response, which was fairly comprehensive in one sense. I am not trying to catch anybody out or trip anybody up because I believe the Minister is committed to this. As he correctly acknowledged, we are 57 days out from the end of the transition period. People need to start hearing detail and have this issue explained to them so they understand it clearly. I appreciate also that there are current restrictions on travel but hopefully we will get through to the other end of that.

People need to hear and understand how this is measure will work. If it is the case that people will have to go through a process and then apply for reimbursement, inherently that will not be the same as retaining the current EHIC system. Without getting into the politics of the issue, if that is to be the reality, people need to understand. Will it still be a matter of going to a local post office to apply for this scheme? Will that option be available to them? How will reimbursement work and how long will it take? Will it be a fairly simple model? While I appreciate the Minister has flagged up the legislation that will come to the House, there is a very short window here.

I made the point to Government representatives this week that while this whole debate has understandably moved very firmly into the economic and trade realm recently, there has been a loss of focus on the very important issue of the retention of citizens' rights, certainly in the public domain.

If the Minister is in a position to do so it might be something we could revisit. I cannot stress enough the importance of this scheme and the other schemes along with the issues he acknowledged in his contribution. We need to communicate to the communities in the North that are so affected by this. Along with the anxiety of Covid they are really uncertain. The promises are important and welcome. I take them in good faith. We now need to hear the mechanics of how that will work.

We are putting in place a contingency plan in case the UK does not agree a resolution to this issue in a future relationship agreement with the EU. The hope and expectation is that we will be able to get a future relationship agreement that will involve the British Government signing off and agreeing on its citizens being able to access the equivalent of an EHIC-type scheme providing for reimbursement for medical costs if and when they are travelling around the EU.

A future relationship agreement could happen; we will have to wait and see how that develops in the next couple of weeks or even less than that. If that does not come off and there is no future relationship agreement, we have legislation coming forward similar to the Brexit omnibus Bill we introduced previously, which put contingency arrangements in place for a no-deal Brexit. It is now putting contingency arrangements in place for a no-future-relationship-deal Brexit. We will have an opportunity to tease through the details of that legislation when it comes through the House.

One of those elements is in this space. The Department of Health and the HSE are putting in place a scheme to ensure continued access to EHIC-equivalent arrangements for Northern Ireland citizens. Of course, that needs to be compatible with domestic and EU legislation. As I have said in the past, if necessary the Irish Government will pay for this showing a commitment to people in Northern Ireland to try to ensure that as they move through or go on their holidays in the European Union and if they run into difficulty and need to access health services and so on, there will be a reimbursement equivalent to EHIC which would obviously be as streamlined as we can make it for citizens to reimburse their healthcare costs through the HSE.

We will put in place a system that is as simple to administer and as streamlined as we can make it. We need to do it within our own legislative parameters and it also needs to be consistent with EU legislation. Of course, we do not control legislation in Northern Ireland. However, I think the Senator will recognise there is a serious commitment to this by the Government. He will see that in the legislation. The Department and the HSE have been working on this for some time to follow through on the commitment I made last year to people in Northern Ireland that not only will we pay for this, but we will also put a system in place to allow it to work if necessary.

The hope is that this will be resolved through negotiation on a future relationship in order that the British Government can announce something that is constructive and positive to deal with the concerns the Senator has rightly outlined.

Travel Trade Sector

I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House. I seek an update on the unique and dire situation of travel agencies. The companies are operating at a loss of about 130% in refunding all revenue for a year and a half, pretty much without Government assistance. Moreover, with 3,500 staff throughout the country, the sector is by no means insignificant.

The Irish Travel Agents Association has continuously voiced its concerns about the impact of the Covid-19 crisis on travel agencies and has called for the Government to provide assistance to repair some of the damage done to the Irish travel industry.

I have spoken to representatives of my local travel agencies. Anyone from north County Louth will be familiar with Centre Travel, KT Travel, McGuill Travel and O'Callaghan Travel. These businesses combined have been in operation for 180 years, employ 30 staff and have an annual turnover of more than €16 million, so they are by no means small fry. These are small enterprises that give excellent personalised customer service. They were thriving viable businesses but they now see no light. They still give an excellent service with negative return. To give an example, one of these travel agents has had only five bookings since September. This week, it will issue 75 cheques in refunds to its customers. As we know, there are costs associated with refunds and staff are needed to do this work. Other outgoings include cumulative bank charges, office charges, rent and heat. One travel agent has estimated that it takes up to nine hours for each refund to be organised with all the administrative hurdles, telephone calls, emails, etc. All money is going out. Travel agents are not normal retail outlets.

Let us remember that travel agents only make money when customers board a flight and the plane takes off. As we know, some flights are taking off but the Government advice is that people should not travel so people are not travelling. In such instances, under EU law, travel agents are obliged to refund the cost of flights whereas airlines are not obliged to do so. Five travel agencies have gone into liquidation. Under EU law, customers are refunded. Must the Government or the Commission for Aviation Regulation now provide refunds?

Travel agents are seeking clarity on whether they are eligible for the Covid restrictions support scheme. Is the scheme based on turnover or profits?

The refund credit note is of no practical assistance to travel agencies as it only protects customers if a travel agent goes into liquidation. A refund credit note does not help travel agents to keep their business running and only protects customers. It is important that customers are protected but these businesses still need a refund.

I stress that the travel agents that I have spoken to respect and understand the restrictions but they need help to ensure their businesses still exist when the restrictions are lifted.

I thank Senator McGreehan for raising this very important issue. She raised it as a national issue but recognised the importance of the sector to the north east and listed travel agents in County Louth.

I am very familiar with the important service that travel agents provide nationally to the industry. They support the corporate sector and service the domestic market and people here who travel abroad. I recognise that travel agents put a lot of work in at the start of the pandemic and worked with us. I have certainly seen that in the case of Martin Skelly in Navan Travel and Eimer Hannon in Hannon Travel. Travel agents have worked with the State to bring people who were stuck abroad home. They have also engaged with customers in the past couple of months and tried to provide that service. At the start of Covid, the sector stepped up and helped to get people home who were in trouble and solved a lot of issues. The travel sector is very relevant in local communities.

I recognise that many businesses and thousands of people working in the travel agent industry have been severely impacted by the collapse in national and international travel and tourism as a result of Covid-19 restrictions. The needs of these businesses and their employees have formed part of our consideration of the range of grants and funding assistance that we have introduced in budget 2021 and in the July stimulus plan. We are developing our recovery plan, which will be launched in November or December.

I agree with the Senator that the travel agent sector recognises the importance of restrictions. Travel agents have always stressed at our meetings that they recognise the importance of protecting public health. The issue they have is the survival of travel agencies.

I met representatives of the Irish Travel Agents Association in mid-September, as did many other Departments. I have received further representations from the association since the publication of budget 2021. I have heard their case, which they have also made to many other Members of both Houses.

The Senator is correct in saying they are unique. Compared with other retailers, they are a very different business model.

The Irish travel sector is a strong, dynamic industry which employs over 3,500 people across Ireland. Last year, the Commission for Aviation Regulation reported a €1.2 billion turnover for Irish travel agents in 2018, as part of its annual report for that year. Travel agents are engaged in all aspects of overseas travel, including leisure, corporate and visits to family abroad. We are all very familiar with this service. From a departmental corporate travel point of view they are very important.

There is interdependency between outgoing and incoming air and sea travel volumes. The travel industry is a nationwide SME sector, largely comprised of family-run businesses employing over 3,500 people in towns and cities across the country, including in rural Ireland and the north east as mentioned by Senator McGreehan. The ITAA has informed the Government that the majority of Irish travel agents are at risk of long-term unemployment unless immediate action is taken, which backs up the Senator's statement that it is important that this sector benefits from supports that are provided.

The Irish travel industry has remained active since March to service customers with cancellations, refunds and rebooking holidays. This work is ongoing. These companies could not close even though they were effectively blocked from trading and they have had to continue to carry a proportion of salary and overhead costs. We recognise that. The companies make an argument which is unique in terms of the arguments being made by other businesses. Travel agents provide an essential service to customers. The ITAA has told us that if they close this responsibility will fall to the Commission for Aviation Regulation in respect of which there will be associated costs. It is important that we ensure the supports being made available are reaching the sector.

In recognition of the importance of the sector and of businesses in many other sectors, the budget provides for a significant package of tax and expenditure measures to build the resilience of the economy and to help vulnerable but viable businesses across all sectors. We are trying to help businesses to operate as best they possibly can over the next couple of months, when allowed, in order that they can thrive again in the years ahead, which this sector believes it can do. The sector believes that if it can get through the next six to eight months it will be in a strong position to recommence services, create jobs and operate in the Irish market in the years ahead.

Through the measures announced in the July stimulus package, including the employment wage subsidy scheme, the restart grant+ and the other variations of it and the low-cost loans and commercial rate waivers, we are providing supports to suit the different businesses. As many businesses have had to close under the level 5 Covid restrictions we have made changes to the pandemic unemployment payment, PUP, and the employment wage subsidy scheme, EWSS. The new payment structure for the PUP includes an increase in the top rate to €350 for those who were earning in excess of €400 per week. This change to payment rates will apply in respect of all existing and new applicants. The travel industry would have benefited from the initial wage subsidy scheme and probably took the view that the new scheme did not suit its needs. The increased rates should be of assistance to it. The EWSS is also being amended to align with the amendment to PUP, with the top payment increasing to €350 for those earning over €400. As part of budget 2021, the new Covid restrictions support scheme, CRSS, is now operational through Revenue and offers a targeted, timely and temporary sector-specific support of up to €5,000 per week to businesses forced to close or trade at significantly reduced levels due to Covid. This is based on turnover. I am aware that Members of the Houses have received representations on travel agents' eligibility for the scheme and the full details will be confirmed as part of the Finance Bill, Second Stage of which is currently before the Dáil and will probably come before this House next week. We are providing more and cheaper loan finance through MicroFinance Ireland, the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland, SBCI, and the new €2 billion credit guarantee scheme.

The level of help now being provided to businesses across all sectors is unprecedented and ahead of that available in many other jurisdictions. We will continue to keep the mix of support for specific sectors under review to ensure businesses can reopen as international travel recovers. It is important that the travel sector can benefit from these supports as well. I look forward to the completion of the debate on the Finance Bill over the next week or two to bring clarification to this issue.

The Senator mentioned the refund credit note. People might say it did not help the sector but the purpose of it was to give confidence in the early stages to those customers who did not need a refund. I am conscious that people in difficult times financially might have no choice but to seek a refund of money they had on deposit with a travel agent but there are people who might have been in the position of not having to seek a refund and were able to leave the money with the travel agent to help support the sector. As I said the purpose of the refund credit note was to provide confidence to a customer who had been loyal to a travel agent for many years.

If the customer was willing to leave his or her money on deposit, the State was saying the money would be paid out at a later stage. The scheme aimed to provide confidence. It did not get enough of a hearing and maybe many customers did not hear about it or fully understand it. It was an attempt to stop the withdrawal of cash from travel agents and to stop people seeking their deposits back. That was the intention. The scheme had some impact but maybe not enough and it was certainly not enough on its own to help the sector. That is why we have announced a range of other supports. The case the Senator makes for the CRSS is an important one.

I thank the Minister of State for the clarity on the Covid restrictions support scheme. He and I are in complete agreement. This is a unique industry that is not at all like normal retail. The doors of travel agents are open virtually at the minute and the money is constantly flowing out. I appreciate the Minister of State's time and the clarity he has provided. I understand the refund credit note was intended to give customers assurances but it did not really help the travel agents. I look forward to giving back some positive news to some of the travel agents in Dundalk.

I thank the Senator again for raising this important issue. I will make sure her arguments are conveyed to the Ministers for Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform. We are committed to ensuring we have an appropriate mix of financial help and assistance in place for the businesses most severely impacted by Covid-19. We are continuing to see a strong take-up of the range of supports available for businesses but I ask businesses and all sectors to look at the supports again, visit our websites and use our business support helpline to get the information that is available. Businesses that could avail of these opportunities are not drawing them down yet and I appeal to them to use those supports. I encourage travel agents to ensure they are availing of the range of grants and other funding schemes that are in place. I am sure most of them are doing so but some might not realise they can still avail of some of the schemes. They should check for the most up-to-date version of every scheme.

The details of the CRSS are being debated as part of the Finance Bill, which is on Second Stage in the Dáil. Travel agents can avail of the scheme under levels 4 and 5. I understand their argument and the argument that many in these Houses are making that they be included under level 3. That is an issue on which the Tánaiste and I are engaging with the Minister for Finance, and I am sure other Ministers such as the Minister for Environment, Climate and Communications, Deputy Eamon Ryan, and the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, Deputy Catherine Martin, are working on this issue as well.

School Accommodation

I thank the Minister of State for coming into the House today to respond to my questions. My Commencement matter is on Clonturk Community College, a new secondary school in Dublin 11. The school has enjoyed phenomenal success since it was established a short number of years ago, where demand far exceeds supply and there has been a large expansion in the number of places offered by the school year on year. There is a real concern, however, with the accommodation at the school. It has already needed temporary accommodation for this school year and it is seeking temporary accommodation for next year. The key issue is that the school cannot continue to ask the Department for temporary accommodation. We need a clear commitment to have a permanent building for this school provided for the start of 2021.

The crucial matter is that it is extremely costly for the Department of Education to provide temporary accommodation and it places stress on those involved in the school to be continually worrying about school accommodation. We cannot allow a situation where the school building effectively defines, limits or constrains learning outcomes. I know the school staff are extremely committed to making the existing arrangements work but the school is under significant pressure. We need a clear commitment for a new school building sooner rather than later. I am appealing to the Minister of State to relay to the Department the need to have the school building project completed in a timely and straightforward fashion. I am extremely frustrated with the school buildings section of the Department.

I am dealing with two other schools. Pelletstown Educate Together national school is a new school in a similar situation. It has no certainty about securing a permanent school building and we are told there are delays. I am also dealing with a school in Dublin 1, Gaelscoil Choláiste Mhuire. We are told the Department is in negotiations to give away part of the school yard to an adjoining building in the city centre for use as a right of way.

I wrote to the Minister and the Secretary General of the Department over two weeks ago but have received no reply. There are very distressed parents and a board of management with no clarity on what is happening in the school.

The planning of schools must be done in a far better manner. We cannot set up schools but have no clarity for those schools as to when they will get proper accommodation. I particularly ask in the context of Clonturk Community College that an immediate plan be put in place for the start of 2021 to progress the development and delivery of a new school building.

I thank Senator Sherlock for raising these matters. I am here on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Foley, who could not make this morning's discussion. She apologises for that as there was a clash in her diary with other meetings. I am very happy on her behalf to respond on the matter raised by the Senator relating to Clonturk Community College. I am conscious she raised matters relating to two other schools but I do not have details on those because I did not know they would be raised. I will relay them to the Minister, Deputy Foley. In fairness to the Minister, although the Senator said there was a delay of two weeks in responding to the matter, we recognise the pressure on the Department and how the Minister is on the front line trying to deal with how schools cope with Covid-19. It is a priority but I have no doubt she will respond to the Senator as quickly as possible. I will certainly liaise with the Senator and we will contact the school as well.

We must recognise how busy the Department is. One of the good news stories of the Covid-19 pandemic is how well the education system is responding and how schools are reopening. I compliment everybody involved, including the teaching community, the support staff and parents, as well as the Department and its agencies. They have successfully managed to keep schools open over the past couple of months and will do it in future.

Clonturk Community College is a multi-denominational school under the joint patronage of City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Educate Together. It was established in September 2016 as a "start-up" second level school to meet the needs of a growing population in the area and the demand for a multi-denominational second level school. The school opened with an enrolment of 48 pupils in 2016. In September 2019, the school had an enrolment of 343 pupils. It is envisaged that Clonturk Community College will accommodate 1,000 pupils when at full capacity.

In January 2019, the Department approved a devolved grant for Clonturk Community College for the purchase of a modular building that is now in place. This has provided an additional eight general classrooms, four pastoral offices, three guidance rooms, two special educational needs classes, two computer rooms, one art room, one science laboratory, one general purpose room, one principal's office, one staff room, one staff workroom and all the necessary toilet facilities, changing rooms, circulation, lifts and staircases required. This, together with existing accommodation, provides the school with mainstream classroom capacity to cater for 750 pupils.

While awaiting the delivery of the modular building, interim temporary accommodation consisting of nine rented prefabs was installed and remain on the site. The school authorities have expressed the need to retain these to cater for the current cohort of pupils. Officials from the Department provided the necessary forms to the City of Dublin Education and Training Board in order to assess the need for the retention of these prefabs and any other deficits of specialist accommodation. This documentation was recently received by the Department and it is being assessed.

In quantifying the specific requirements for September 2021 and future years, the Department is in the final throes of concluding its nationwide demographic exercises to determine where additional school accommodation is needed at primary and post-primary level across the 314 school planning areas through a geographical information system. The GIS uses data from a range of sources, including child benefit data from the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection and the Department's own school enrolment databases, as well as local information provided by the school community, to identify where the pressure for school places across the country will arise.

The process has been strengthened this year through three specific initiatives. These include enhanced engagement with local authorities on the information on residential development incorporated in the analysis process and additional engagement with patron bodies and their local knowledge on school place requirements. Education and training boards, diocesan offices and national patron bodies such as Educate Together, An Foras Pátrúnachta and others can be an important source of local knowledge.

The process has been strengthened this year through three specific initiatives: enhanced engagement with local authorities in respect of the information on residential development incorporated in the analysis process; additional engagement with patron bodies in respect of their local knowledge on school place requirements, education and training boards, diocesan offices and national patron bodies, such as Educate Together, An Foras Pátrúnachta, etc., can be an important source of local knowledge - this will add to information also provided to the Department by local authorities or individual schools; and, in order to aid the planning system, the Department will also be utilising the information gleaned from schools under the national inventory of school capacity completed by individual schools last year as part of the primary online database, POD, and post-primary online database, P-POD, return processes.

As Senator Sherlock will be aware, capital planning and budgeting is undertaken on a multi-annual basis. Under Project Ireland 2040, the education sector will receive approximately €12 billion over the period 2018 to 2027. This includes €8.8 billion for the school sector and €2.2 billion for higher education infrastructure. A significant amount of money has been provided by this and the previous Government for education and rightly so. The specific allocations in each area are closely monitored and may be adjusted from year to year to take account of project progress and other factors.

Since 2018, in excess of €1.2 billion has been invested in capital infrastructure under the school building programme. A further €725 million is allocated for investment in 2020. The roll-out of Project Ireland 2040 in the school sector has involved overall construction activity during 2018 and 2019 on 139 projects ranging in value from €1 million to in excess of €20 million. There were also 401 projects with a value of less than €1 million in construction during this period. The completion of these 540 projects is expected to deliver more than 40,000 permanent additional and replacement school places and to replace approximately 600 prefabs.

The Department has a large pipeline of projects for delivery under the school building programme. The main elements of this pipeline currently involve 372 large-scale projects and approximately 800 projects for delivery under the Department's additional school accommodation scheme. While good progress continues to be made with the roll-out of projects, the enhanced funding levels envisaged under the national development plan, NDP, will be key to ensuring the successful delivery of the remaining elements of the pipeline of projects during the period of the plan, namely, up to 2027.

Again, I thank Senator Sherlock for raising this issue and for giving me the opportunity to outline the position on behalf of the Minister. I assure her that the application for capital funding for Clonturk Community College for specialist accommodation is being assessed and the school authorities will be notified of a decision as quickly as possible. The planning system and the method for providing additional accommodation for schools throughout the country has greatly improved in recent years and the Department is very responsive in terms of providing places at both primary and secondary level as quickly as possible when they are needed. We can all see the benefits of that. Sometimes schools begin in temporary accommodation but that is replaced with permanent accommodation very quickly.

I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive reply. In response, I should point out that Clonturk Community College has proven that it will be a 1,000-student school. There is no question over the future growth of the school or whether it will reach those enrolment figures. Based on its current numbers and the excess of demand over supply of places, it is very clear that this school will meet the 1,000 student capacity mark in a very short period. I ask the Minister of State to ask the Department to provide a date or precise timeline for the completion of the nationwide demographic exercise. The information contained in the response is very useful in terms of how that data is compiled but I would reiterate that the school's view that there is a proven demand for a permanent school building. I take on board what the Minister of State has said about the Department being very responsive in recent years and would point out that in this particular instance, space is not an issue. There is plenty of land on which to develop a school building. I hope the Department will move sooner rather than later in terms of its commitment to deliver a permanent building on that site.

I am happy to clarify that the Department's aim is to complete the demographic exercise as soon as possible, although I do not have a precise date. It will feed into the capital spending plans for 2021 and beyond. It will also feed into the review of the NDP, in which education features very strongly. I understand that the aim is to have it ready for next year.

It will be involved in that process as well. Having been in that Department for a few years, I know how important that piece of work is because is provides the evidence needed to secure the budget the Department needs to invest in schools in the communities.

I have tracked the commitments made over the years, based on that demographic, and they are delivered on. It is the right way to plan and deliver schools, based on evidence and research. The Senator says the school to which she has referred needs approval for a capacity of 1,000 students. The Department has recognised that and when the school was planned in 2016 it was announced that it would eventually be a 1,000-pupil school when at full capacity. It is nowhere near that at this moment in time. It has just over 343 pupils, with accommodation for 750. I am sure the Department will ensure things are developed in time but it is recognised that it will be a 1,000-pupil school. There is no dispute about that because that is what the Department planned for when it announced the school in the first place.

I thank the Minister of State for taking those Commencement matters and I thank the Senators for putting forward their questions.

Sitting suspended at 11.51 a.m. and resumed at 12 noon.
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