When is it proposed to take Fifth Stage?
Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person (Amendment) (Stalking) Bill 2021: Report and Final Stages
Bill received for final consideration.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."
A lot has been said about this Bill between Second Stage and Committee Stage. I will not go over old ground, but will take the opportunity once again to thank Eve McDowell and Una Ring for their work in campaigning on this issue. They were undeterred. When they started this campaign it was not easy for them, but despite dealing with and recovering from their ordeals they very bravely took on the task of trying to bring about change to our laws, which is never easy to achieve. It was an honour and a privilege to work with them to bring the Bill to where it is today.
I believe that it is the first Private Members' Bill to pass all Stages this term, which is a significant achievement for all of us and for everyone who worked on the Bill. I thank all my colleagues, across parties, for their contributions to and support of this Bill. It has been a very good process for all of us. It also sends a powerful message from the Seanad that this side of the House, which is led by three women from the three Government parties, with some very strong contributions from male colleagues, recognises the need to improve and modernise our laws to make our streets safer for victims. It acknowledges the fact that these types of crimes predominantly affect women, in addition to the importance of sending out a strong message that we have acknowledged there are gaps in the law and that changes need to be made. This is just one of those small changes we think will make a very big difference to many victims.
As I said previously, we have looked to other jurisdictions, in particular Scotland, England and Wales, where stalking was made a stand-alone criminal offence more than a decade ago. That had a very real impact on the reporting of crimes. In Wales, for example, reporting increased by threefold when this law came into place and it also resulted in increased prosecutions. It has a direct impact on victims coming forward, the need to tell victims there is a process and, hopefully, encouraging more people to come forward to report what is a very serious crime that can escalate very quickly.
I will finish by thanking the Cathaoirleach for his latitude and all my colleagues for their support in getting this Bill to where it is. It is now over to the Minister for Justice, Deputy Helen McEntee, to take this legislation through the Dáil. I hope to see the Bill being progressed at the earliest opportunity without any delay. We could, theoretically, have this Bill on the Statute Book in a number of weeks, if the political will is there to do so. We have done our work on this side and in this House, in addition to working with Eve McDowell and Una Ring, to produce this legislation. I will now hand it over to the Minister for Justice to bring this legislation through the Dáil as quickly as possible and to get this law on the Statute Book. That way we can say to Una and Eve that the work they have done has paid off and they have initiated and brought about real and meaningful change.
I know the Minister will want to respond, but there are a number of other speakers. She can come in at any time.
I will very briefly acknowledge much of what Senator Chambers said and the initiative behind this Bill. I congratulate her on the progress it has made. It sets down an important message regarding the ability of non-Government Members, if I can put it in those terms, to bring forth legislative proposals that work. There is a body of elected representatives in this House in particular who want to progress legislative proposals. I also acknowledge the fact that the Minister has been a particularly good and open receptor for those ideas. I congratulate her on the fact that she has always been willing to sit down with Members to discuss legislative proposals. I thank her for that.
I sometimes think that in the melee that is the Dáil, where there is so much other business beyond the legislative agenda to be done, ideas like this that are very simple, common sense and effective and, as Senator Chambers said, have worked very well in other jurisdictions, can slip through the cracks. It is entirely appropriate that this Bill should be brought forward in this House by an individual Senator or Senators. I congratulate the Minister on being so receptive to that idea and being willing to accept a Bill such as this. As Senator Chambers said, we look forward to its passage through the Dáil.
I am standing in for my colleague, Senator Ó Donnghaile, today. I will begin by congratulating Senator Chambers. I agree with everything she said about this being a very good day for this House. It is a very significant Bill.
Before I speak to the Bill specifically, I will commend the makers of Monday night's "RTÉ Investigates" programme. It was a powerful, disturbing and very frightening revelation of what life is like for women who are brutalised by their husbands or partners and how they are let down by the State when it comes to protecting them or effectively prosecuting their abusers. I suggest that the leadership of An Garda Síochána and the Judiciary watch this programme and, in particular, address those issues where much more can be done to help those women caught in a violent and, in many cases, threatening relationship. I suggest this not to take away from the great help and assistance women receive from the Garda and Judiciary, but the programme highlighted specific areas where more needs to be done.
I will quickly recap some of the main points made with regard to the stalking Bill as it made its way through its various Stages. Many stalkers are charged by the Garda with intimidation or harassment, but no specific stalking legislation exists. Some victims of stalking do not believe that harassment properly defines the insidious effect stalking can have on their lives.
Victims have to change their daily routine. They suffer from mental health issues and their relationships with their families and friends are turned upside-down. I have personal experience of someone very close to me whose life was torn apart by a stalker. It is a good few years ago now but the lady in question never recovered from the horrendous effects of it. More support is needed for victims' services and the support organisations, which are run on a shoestring budget. Sentencing must match the gravity of the charges that are brought against the stalker. Stalking is a very serious matter and those who practise it need to know that they will face serious time in prison. I agree with colleagues who asked for swift passage of this Bill. It is a good day and I congratulate Senator Chambers.
I welcome the Minister to the House and I commend my colleague Senator Chambers on this Bill. As someone who was the victim of a stalker for a number of years, I welcome this legislation. I am delighted to see it and I welcome that the Minister is bringing it swiftly through both Houses. I thank her for that.
I welcome the Minister for Justice and thank her for coming to the House today, as well as for supporting my colleague Senator Chambers in this legislation she has brought to the House. I commend Una Ring, Eve McDowell and every victim and survivor of stalking, abuse, harassment and violence in whatever form it takes.
Right from when she took office, the Minister made it a priority to update the laws and the State's response to victims of abuse and violence. The work she is doing is incredibly important, not just for us today but for people in the future, including our daughters and anyone who could potentially be a victim. The Bill is important. It is important that we call stalking out as a unique crime. It is insidious and invasive and it gets into victims' mental space. Their personal sense of security is invaded, as are their home and workplace, and that is all before the actual physical violence that can occur.
I urge the Minister to take strength and keep doing the work she is doing because it is important. She has outlined how the Government will prioritise prevention, protection, prosecution and policy and that is an important part of this work. We support the Minister in her work and urge her to take this law and pass it through the Dáil as swiftly as possible, and then come back to us with the rest of her work because we are here to support her.
I congratulate my colleague Senator Chambers on bringing forward this vital legislation, which we are all proud to support. There have been a number of television programmes in recent weeks on the treatment of women in Ireland. It is unacceptable and it just cannot continue.
This Bill is a valid and good attempt by Senator Chambers to address some of what is going on. As I have said previously, we need to quickly come together as a House to address what is going on. Every day when I pick up the newspaper, there seems to be a new incident against the women of Ireland. It is totally and utterly wrong and unacceptable.
This is a good day for this House. It is a good day for the women of Ireland as they are the ones predominantly affected by stalking. We need more legislation like this. I again congratulate Senator Chambers. I look forward to the Bill's swift passage through the Dáil. This is the start of what we need to do in this Oireachtas to defend the women of Ireland. We need to make sure we have the legislation to back that up.
I commend our leader in the Seanad, Senator Chambers. We are proud of her and she is great for keeping going with the Bill. I commend Eve McDowell and Una Ring, as well as Dr. Catherine O'Sullivan, the academic behind the Bill. I also commend the Minister for not reinventing the wheel, for taking the baton and following through with it and not redoing Second Stage of the Bill. That shows her willingness to be proactive when others may not have been and may have started again with a new Bill. It is a great day. I thank everyone and congratulate the House and Senator Chambers on championing the Bill. Well done everyone.
This is a good and positive day for everyone in Ireland. It was wrong that stalking was not part of our legislation. Women like Eve McDowell, Una Ring and all the other victims have been pushing for this legislation. Thankfully, our colleague Senator Chambers took up that mantle and brought this Bill to the House. The rarity of a Bill from the Seanad being brought through by a Member of this House must be acknowledged. That in itself makes this an historic day.
This Bill is part of something bigger that is happening at grassroots level in this country. We are beginning to see a change. I look forward to the third strategy on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence being published. We all speak constantly of this issue in this House. I hope we are all on a wind of change with regard to gender-based and domestic violence and will be able to protect all our citizens and make sure we are safe on our streets and in our homes. It is a good day and a good start. We wish the Minister the best bringing this Bill through speedily and at as early an opportunity as possible. I am sure she agrees that it is an important and decent Bill.
I am delighted that this Bill has reached this Stage. I thank Senator Chambers for pursuing it doggedly to get to this point. It has proceeded quite quickly and I do not think it would have proceeded to this Stage if not for her determination. The reason the Bill is so important is that we are in a crisis. There has been no reduction in violence against women. Stalking does not always result in violence but it creates a level of fear and interruption in a woman's life. The victim is usually a woman although it sometimes affects men.
The fact that 40% of the people in this Chamber are women means that a lot of this type of legislation is coming through this House. I ask the Minister to give it her utmost attention and priority. The Joint Committee on Gender Equality has just formed in order to look at the recommendations of the Citizens' Assembly and we will also have a number of sessions on gender-based violence. We will meet the Minister again at that committee. We urgently want some of the Bills to which she has already agreed to come before us so we can debate them and, ultimately, pass them quickly in order to protect women in our society.
I thank the Minister for her attendance. What is distinctly unique about this Bill is not that it is the first Bill to pass all Stages in the Seanad in this Government, but that it is probably going to pass unanimously. It would be courageous if we all could work collectively together on issues we agree on, without me taking credit, someone else taking credit, or the Sinn Féin Party taking credit. There are myriad issues that we all recognise in Irish society and a hell of a lot of them unfortunately affect women. Working courageously together and collectively passing the legislation we all think we need would be a fine legacy for this Oireachtas, for both the Seanad and the Dáil.
I thank the Minister for her co-operation on this Bill because, as she is well aware, that does not always happen. I would like her to outline the Government's plans, and her own plans, with regard to the timeline for the passing of the Bill. Obviously, none of us can take it through the Dáil. The only person who can do that is the Minister. I ask her to outline the timelines and when she expects to bring the Bill before Dáil Éireann. We all look forward to the day when the unique charge of stalking, which is distinctly different from harassment, will be on our Statute Book.
The way some of our State agencies deal with women and victims of sexual and violent crime is still a major issue. I am dealing with a lady, a tenant of Dublin City Council, who was put out of her house because she was a victim of domestic violence. The council’s answer is for her to give up her tenancy in order to make herself homeless, let the council find new accommodation for her and leave the perpetrator of the violence in the home. We have a long way to go. A myriad of legislation is needed to make sure we have equality in this country. Today is a good start. I thank Senator Chambers for her work on this Bill.
I join colleagues in thanking Senator Chambers on the passage of this Bill through the House. A great deal of effort has gone into developing it. I commend the Senator and also the co-sponsors of the Bill, Senators Fitzpatrick and McGreehan, on their work on it. I, too, want to acknowledge the outstanding work and extraordinary contributions of Eve McDowell and Una Ring, not only in their campaign to change the laws in place but also for recounting their lived experience and providing encouragement and support to many others. The way in which they have come forward leaves us indebted to many victims who have been very brave in telling their own stories. Members of this House have also told their story, which is certainly not easy to do.
Throughout these debates, we have returned time and again to the fact that this crime has such a devastating psychological impact on victims, survivors and other people who are impacted. We cannot even begin to realise the harm stalking causes. As a crime, it is profoundly intrusive. It undermines dignity and shatters lives, as many Senators have outlined. I have seen the impact it has had on a very close friend. I know what it can do to a person and how devastating it is.
Legislative change is only part of the answer but I am particularly conscious of the evidence that has been shown. Senator Chambers outlined that again today. When a specific offence of stalking has been created in other jurisdictions and other countries it has led to an increase in victims coming forward, which means an increase in prosecutions. More than anything else, we want to see victims coming forward. We want them to feel confident in doing so and to know the law will be on their side and there to support them. We need to create a system for victims to ensure they feel comfortable in coming forward. That is what supporting a victim’s journey is about. It is my plan in the Department to improve the criminal justice system, which includes training for gardaí and legal professionals. More recently, we saw moot courts held for judges who deal with cases of sexual harassment, rape and sexual assault. We need more of that to continue. It is extremely important when people come forward that they know the law is on their side and that the people they are dealing with understand and appreciate the difficulties and challenges they face.
We share a similar desire to see the law in this area strengthened. The Government has not opposed this Bill and I look forward to seeing it passed in the Seanad today. Senators will be aware from my recent statements and from the debate on Committee Stage that I have been working closely with the Attorney General on changes to the law in this area. I met Senator Chambers, Una Ring and Eve McDowell and it is my intention to enact the changes in this Bill in the criminal law (miscellaneous provisions) Bill, which will be published before Easter. While this work is continuing, I hope we can go even further in some aspects and areas being proposed in the Bill. These include clarifying and widening the scope of conduct that may constitute stalking and what should be taken into account by the courts; providing for court orders to tackle stalking and these types of behaviours at an earlier stage before its consequences impact victims; ensuring we recognise stalking offences may take place where a victim does not even realise it is happening to him or her; enabling the Garda to take action where the victim does not know this is happening; and revising and updating the existing section 10 harassment offence.
I very much look forward to working with Senator Chambers, Eve McDowell and Una Ring and colleagues as we develop these changes and find a way to ensure the existing law and new offence of stalking are as clear and strong as they possibly can be. Victims need to know that they can come forward, that the law is clear and those working with them are clear in what they are doing in taking prosecutions and, more important, that it is clear there will be consequences for those who perpetrate these crimes. I thank Senator Chambers and I look forward to working with her and colleagues.
The Minister is very welcome to the House. I am pleased she is supporting this amendment Bill and, in doing so, ensuring the work of my colleague Senator Chambers and of Una Ring and Eve McDowell in Stalking Ireland will come to fruition and help protect the women of Ireland and, indeed, some men.
I welcome the taking of Report and Final Stages of this amendment Bill in the House today. I thank the Cathaoirleach for allowing me the opportunity to say a few words on it. I commend the tireless work my colleague and our party leader in the Seanad, Senator Chambers, has put into this legislation and pay tribute to her tenacity and dedication to representing victims of stalking. I also commend Una Ring and Eve McDowell, whom I along with Senator Chambers and my Fianna Fáil Party colleagues had the pleasure of meeting, on the bravery and courage they have shown in their work in supporting and working on this legislation with Senator Chambers.
We need the crime of stalking to be explicitly recognised on our Statute Book. This Bill does exactly that. There is no doubting the public support there is for it. I have been contacted by several constituents who are fully supportive of this provision. I have no doubt all Senators have had that experience in the areas they represent.
We have a duty as legislators to ensure insidious, intimidating and premeditated acts are dealt with effectively. We owe it to the victims and to An Garda Síochána to ensure our justice system is equipped to deal with instances of stalking. This Bill is balanced, supported by victims and long overdue. The Law Reform Commission has already recommended that specific stalking offences be enacted. As I have said on previous Stages, there is no excuse for anyone in either House of the Oireachtas to delay the adoption of this legislation. Therefore, I am glad we are where we are today.
It is important to distinguish again between an act of harassment and a campaign of stalking. There is a distinct difference between the two. As matters stand, stalkers are likely to be charged on the basis of having harassed their victims, if they are charged at all. We have seen a rise in violence and intimidation in this country, mainly perpetrated by men against women. We must be seen to act swiftly to stamp this out, be it gender-based violence, public disorder or stalking. The citizens we represent want assurances that these Houses will protect them and that we will provide the Garda and courts with the flexibility and powers to ensure real justice is served. I again commend my colleagues on their tireless advocacy and give my full support to the Bill.
I thank all the Senators who contributed to the debate. When it comes to getting things done, as the Leader pointed out, it is amazing what can be done when no one wants to claim the credit. In this particular instance, I again pay tribute to Senator Chambers, the large team working with her, the Minister and her staff. It takes a lot to get legislation passed. The Seanad outweighs the Dáil in getting legislation by Members passed. Nonetheless, it is a monumental achievement in itself to get this Bill done. Each Seanad has passed pretty much one Private Members' Bill. I again congratulate Senator Chambers on that achievement, which took relentless persistence. I thank the Minister for attending to conclude the debate and colleagues for their contributions.
Question put and agreed to.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ag 1.28 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ag 2 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 1.28 p.m. and resumed at 2 p.m.